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Erin Burnett Outfront

FBI Awaiting DNA Results From Glove Found Near Guthrie Home; TMZ: Person In New Message Writes "That Was Definitely Nancy With Them"; Bush Celebrates Washington's "Humility," But Is It A Dig At Trump? Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 16, 2026 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:29]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: OUFRONT next:

Breaking news, the sheriff in the Nancy Guthrie case tonight revealing some people have been cleared as suspects in her disappearance as we are awaiting the test results of key DNA evidence this hour.

Also breaking, TMZ reporting it received a fourth e-mail now demanding money in exchange for information on the person who kidnapped Guthrie. The sender now mentioning what he saw, quote, "south of the border". TMZ's Harvey Levin is my guest.

And a subtle swipe at Donald Trump, perhaps. Former President George W. Bush in a new audio praising George Washington for his humility and relinquishing power.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

(MUSIC)

BOLDUAN: Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news cleared for the first time. Investigators have definitively cleared the Guthrie family as suspects in the search for Nancy Guthrie. As for trying to crack this case, a potential pivotal clue could come at any moment. The FBI is expected to receive the final DNA test results today from a glove found about two miles from Nancy Guthrie's home.

That glove, we're told, appears to match what the suspect is wearing here in the doorbell video that we've seen so many times on the morning that she went missing. Investigators are also racing to track down more information now about the clothing that the suspect is wearing.

According to the FBI and the sheriff's department, the clothing seen in this video may have been purchased from Walmart but is not exclusively available at Walmart. What we do know is that investigators have determined the backpack was a black Ozark trail hiker, and this particular bag is only sold at Walmart. And now, Nancy Guthrie's daughter Savannah is making another plea for

help and speaking directly to her mother's captors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: To whoever has her or knows where she is, that it's never too late. And you're not lost or alone. It is never too late to do the right thing. And we are here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT, live in Tucson, Arizona, for us tonight.

Ed, what are you learning there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate.

Well, I think the statement from the Pima County sheriff today, Chris Nanos talking about the Guthrie family. Significant on a couple of different levels, obviously, for the Guthrie family, many of them -- several of them have been subject to some rather intense online speculation about their potential involvement in this case.

But this really this statement from the sheriff making it definitive that no one in the family, the siblings or their spouses, not only are they not suspect or considered people of interest, that they have essentially been cleared in this investigation, and we have not heard the sheriff or any of the investigators in this case so far talk that way about anyone.

The sheriff went on to say that the family has been extremely cooperative with them every step of the way. And he actually went on even further to say that the online speculation about them over the last couple of weeks has been, quote, "cruel". So that is significant.

And then obviously, we await word on these DNA tests that are being done. We have not heard from the FBI yet or any investigators about whether those results have come back. And we're not exactly sure those results will be shared. But they are significant because the FBI over the weekend said that there had been DNA found in a glove discovered within two miles of Nancy Guthrie's home and then the sheriff told us several days ago there's a DNA of an unknown, unknown person found here at the home.

So, if those two DNA samples and tests match, then that obviously gives investigators something new to pursue. Then they would put that DNA into a database to try to figure out if it can be tracked down to a specific person so we await all of that news that's, you know, rather significant.

And then you also have which I think is interesting is the -- you know, we've talked so much about the images, the video and the still images of the front doorbell camera. And I want to remind people that there are multiple cameras like that on this on Nancy Guthrie's property. And the sheriff told me that they are going through the process of trying to resurrect that video from those other cameras as well.

And the potential there is, you know, perhaps there's video of a car that was used to drive up to Nancy Guthrie's home or something else that could be an even more groundbreaking clue and tip and lead for investigators in this case because we are now entering the third week of this investigation, and not only is there no suspect or person of interest so far, there is no sign as to where Nancy Guthrie might be -- Kate.

[19:05:06]

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Ed, thank you so much for your continued reporting on the ground there. Really appreciate it.

Everyone's here with me now. Let's go through this.

John, the latest tonight. The sheriff clearing Nancy Guthrie's children and spouses in connection to her disappearance. What do you make of the sheriff doing that in this moment?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I think what the sheriff told us, you know, the week before last was when he was being pressed. Is there a prime suspect? And there were media outlets and social media pointing to a member of the family as a prime suspect.

What he said was, there is no prime suspect. And when pressed, he said everyone's a suspect. Meaning when you don't have a particular suspect you look at everybody that comes into view as these social media reports and all that started to snowball.

I think the sheriffs point today was we've been over everybody's alibi. We've been over everybody's whereabouts. We've cross-checked that with everybody's cellular telephone tower traffic and everything else. It all matches up.

So, I think he was able to say just to put a stop to that talk. Partly out of there's no there and partly out of, let's have some human decency.

BOLDUAN: I was kind of wondering if that was an element of it, too. Just how -- I mean, the family is already going through so much. I mean, he notes it in his statement, John.

MILLER: He does. I mean, he calls out the media. He says, you know, do your job with compassion and professionalism. So, I think that was all for the right reasons. And I think there's also something behind it which is when you're in the middle of an investigation of a kidnapping, you're under this much pressure going back to the family so many times with so many questions, which is going to be required you have to maintain a relationship of trust and openness with them and, you know, doing this today was saying, you know, I'm going out there for you because you're tired of it. I'm tired of it.

BOLDUAN: And, Wally, one of the things that really seems of high importance and priority right now is getting these final FBI -- DNA testing results from the glove found near Nancy Guthrie's home. The glove we've seen there as we've seen this video, they say it appears to be similar or appears to match the glove that they see in this surveillance video the morning she went missing.

How sure can officials be that this is actually the glove and not just a black glove look similar?

WALLACE ZEINS, FORMER COMMANDING OFFICER, NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATING TEAM: Well, again, they're waiting for the results of the DNA. That's the most important thing.

But on the other side of the coin, once they get that, they can expand that investigation with that DNA to the genetic area of the DNA. There is a DNA company in Texas that they would use to go and they would trace that DNA where they'll be able to do a family tree.

They'll be able to tell relatives of that DNA, they'll be able to tell race, creed, color. They'll be able to do a lot more deep investigative, be from the DNA from Quantico would be the doctor. DNA from Texas would be the surgeon.

BOLDUAN: And you think this is critical?

ZEINS: Very critical. That and the clothing

BOLDUAN: That and the clothing, as well. Let's hold on that. Let's get to that in just one second.

Jacqueline Maguire, you're a former FBI executive assistant director. In part, you oversaw the labs. The FBI, they received these preliminary results on the glove over the weekend. And as we know, we're waiting this final result, this final official confirmation. TBD if it is released to the public, what is the process now?

JACQUELINE MAGUIRE, FORMER FBI EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF SCIENCE & TECH BRANCH: Sure. Thank you, Kate.

I would caution against saying that final result because this process is very methodical. The DNA profile that was developed off of that recovered glove, once confirmed to be a set profile and meet certain criteria. That would be entered into the FBI DNA database, and that is CODIS, the combined DNA index system. And it's a comparison to see if there are any known offenders, anyone who has been convicted of a felony or anyone in certain states who has been arrested for a felony so the comparison provides a potential match.

And if there is a match to a known offender, then that provides investigators with a lead. And in that database, the DNA profile could also be compared to other known profiles, from other crime scenes to potentially connect a crime scene to this one.

BOLDUAN: Mary Ellen, officials are also trying to figure out as Wally was talking about figure out what the suspect was wearing. Bring this more into central focus. They've identified the specific type of backpack. The sheriff's office now saying the clothing seen in the video may have been purchased at Walmart, but are saying it's not exclusively available at Walmart.

How does that help or complicate this search?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR FBI PROFILER & FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, it really does help if they're able to eventually narrow it down as an in-person purchase, let's say at a local Walmart.

[19:10:01]

Then they can go in and they can take a look at the camera footage from the store and hopefully be able to identify someone on a particular day who purchased that.

So, it does become very important. It's a little bit more of a challenge certainly if the purchases were determined to have been made online, but if they were made in person, at Walmart or at a different store that sold the same items, it can -- it can really evolve into some extremely valuable information and leads.

BOLDUAN: Jacqueline, what are you thinking about that? What would the process be then with regards to the clothing?

MAGUIRE: I absolutely agree. That's a crucial lead to track down as Mary Ellen said, we could potentially look to see how that purchase was made. Was that backpack made -- purchase made at the same time as purchase of a ski mask or a similar jacket or gloves. That really narrows down the focus. And then, is there video of that purchase? If in person in a store, is there credit card information? If it was purchased online, is there information from any email contact that was given?

So it provides a number of leads. But again, that's a time intensive process. When you think about how many Walmarts, not only in the Arizona area but throughout the country, they would be looking at.

BOLDUAN: How challenging all do you think it's going to be when it comes to the clothing? You think it's critical?

ZEINS: Yes, it's very critical and one of the most important things is there can also, if you look at the video, the pictures that were presented all the clothing looks new. If you look at the person, it looks like his jacket is new. If you look at his mask it looks fairly non-crinkled, it looks new and the glove, the glove that they found and the glove that its on his hand looks very familiar.

And again, what was just said when they look at that it could be a package deal that deal that he went to Walmart and bought all three at the same time. So, you can look and try to use that as an investigative tool to go after and check. In addition to just the mask and just the gloves and just the backpack, look and see if there was a package of three items bought. And then you can expand your investigative.

BOLDUAN: John, looking back from just the last few days, there was quite a bit of activity this weekend near Nancy Guthrie's home. We don't know what came of it but their home searched, a car search. Ed Lavandera was kind of talking about it as well. What does it tell you that they may still be focused in the general area, still right around her home?

MILLER: It tells us two things. The first time that they, you know, got together a swat team went and hit a house picked up somebody, questioned them and that lead washed out. That was 60 miles south, right on the Mexican border. The second time it was two miles away. What that tells us is they're taking those tips.

And as people are talking about different suspects, they're vetting them and they're saying, okay, what would the connection be? Is there another connection? Is that enough to bring to a judge for probable cause? And that we're likely to see a couple more of those?

Why are these suspects washing out? Because they're doing this quickly. Why are they moving so fast? Because in a normal criminal investigation, you would take your time and go through many more steps, maybe conduct extensive surveillance. It could take a couple of weeks. When you have a victim in the balance somebody who may be, you know tied up, maybe not getting food or water an elderly person, may not getting medication. You're going to pick up that pace.

And for exigent circumstances, you're going to go through that door, then you're going to obtain a warrant then you're going to see if there's any sign that if the victim isn't there ever was there. And I think that is part of the pressure they're under. And I'm not surprised if we see it. Something like it again this week.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. Mary Ellen, I want to play again some of what Savannah Guthrie said in this latest video to get your take on it. Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTHRIE: I wanted to say to whoever has her or knows where she is, but it's never too late. And you're not lost or alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What do you make of this video in particular, Mary Ellen? Her message, her wording, the -- you are not lost. You're not alone. It's never -- it's never too late.

What do you make of it?

O'TOOLE: Well, it's a combination of information and affect that came through the pain on, on Savannah's face in her voice was obvious and the message was very powerful. It's never too late to do the right thing. I will say this. That based on the fact pattern that we have thus far, a message with that kind of emotion will likely not be appealing to the offender, to the kidnapper. And we know that just because of his psychological makeup.

However, there are people that will be close to this offender, whether it's a husband, a brother or father that understand what makes this offender tick and probably have been on the receiving end of some violence. And they will be moved by that. They will get that.

And that's what makes that video so compelling, because that's who Savannah is really appealing to. That's who she's saying. It's never too late.

That's the person that is more than likely the one who will come forward.

BOLDUAN: John, in that, does it? Does it seem most likely as Mary Ellen's kind of getting at the appeal now is not to the to the person to the abductor. The appeal now is to the sensibility or humanity of the people around them that someone must know something.

MILLER: And that could be an array of people. It could be someone who, in the beginning was invited to be an accomplice, who backed out. It could be, as Mary Ellen says, it could be someone in the offenders home who is aware of this a wife, a girlfriend and an ex-wife and ex- girlfriend. A friend.

And the appeal is truly to that person's conscience, which is, how long are you going to hold back on this? You know, we need our mom back

BOLDUAN: Yeah, absolutely. And the days tick on. It really is remarkable. It's so tragically sad.

Wally, thanks for being here, John, thank you all so much.

OUTFRONT for us next, more breaking news, TMZ is reporting that it now has a fourth email from someone claiming to know who kidnapped Nancy Guthrie. TMZ's Harvey Levin joins us next with what he is learning tonight.

Plus, authorities are now using a high-tech tool to try and detect Nancy Guthrie through her pacemaker. The former NSA hacker who created this tool will be here.

And also, a CNN investigation into an online movement that is targeting children and is obsessed with gore and violence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:41]

BOLDUAN: We do have breaking news. TMZ has now received a new email, a fourth email from someone who claims he knows who kidnapped Nancy Guthrie. And in this new communication, TMZ says that the sender again demands payment via bitcoin for the information and warns ominously, quote, I know what I saw five days ago south of the border.

Now TMZ founder Harvey Levin, who will join us in just a moment, is making his own plea and offer to the sender. Harvey now has offered this person if they actually have the information they say they do, that they can send it to TMZ, and TMZ will pass it along to the FBI as they seem to not want to do so themselves. Harvey Levin has been breaking news from the beginning of this

investigation. Also received that initial ransom note, and he's OUTFRONT now.

Harvey, thanks for coming on.

We're going to -- I want to talk about your offer in just a moment. But first, what's the latest that you're learning and picking up?

HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ FOUNDER: Well, I can tell you that the FBI is really interested in this ransom note and has been for many days now. And without saying more, there's absolutely no doubt that they are spending a lot of time on this.

They're also interested in these four letters that we've been getting from this person. And we know it's the same person because they keep putting the same bitcoin address in saying that he can lead them to Nancy and the kidnappers. I say that plural. And we can get into that.

As a matter of fact, I can right now. Let me just read you this. You read part of it? I know what I saw five days ago south of the border, and I was told to shut up. So, I know who he is and that was definitely Nancy with them.

So, he says them plural. And in another email, a previous one he also referred to the kidnappers in the plural. So that's what he's saying.

And, Kate, I can't vouch for this, I can't tell you that it's real. It's fake. We made it clear to him today and he saw this either on social media or on our website that if he is lying, if this is a fake, he's committed a crime. So, I can't tell you, but I know the FBI is looking at this.

BOLDUAN: I assume you've not gotten a response yet to your offer to act as act as a go between if they do, if they don't want to contact the FBI themselves for all the various reasons you've kind of previously discussed, you would take the information, you would pass it along. And I'm assuming or guessing, no response yet.

LEVIN: Well, there was a response and I'm not going to get into it until and unless he actually gives us the information because I feel like this is becoming a cat and mouse game. So, what we said to him was, look, you don't trust the FBI. You've made that clear.

And so, if you're contacting us, just give us the information, we'll give it to the FBI and then if that leads to finding Nancy and the arrest of the kidnapper, then there's a record that you're the one who did it, and you'll get the ransom money.

[19:25:08]

So, you know, that's on the table with him. And he has not said yes.

BOLDUAN: Though you have received a response to your offer, does it indicate openness or frustration or any indication that this, that they're contemplating this offer. LEVIN: Frustration, clearly frustration. He's -- he is talking, you

know in these letters he said in, in the one we got early this morning, he said look, I have a burglary conviction ten years ago, which I think is really interesting. I have a burglary because you're wondering, why is this guy somehow connected to the kidnapper?

So, he said, look, he has a record and he worried, it sounds like, of getting implicated in this somehow. He's worried of retaliation by the people who have done this. He gets into that in several of the letters, most recently the one this morning.

BOLDUAN: Where did the idea come from, Harvey? Was this born out of your frustration that this person continued to demand money, but nothing concrete had come from it? I'm really curious about it.

LEVIN: You know, I had to talk to the FBI about something this morning, and I just said, look, you know, why don't I just do this? And I got a return call, and they said we would not oppose that.

So, you know, they're not -- this is delicate, because look, there have been times we've worked with law enforcement, but most of the time, there's a wall and, you know they are sources, but we're not cooperating, you know, to the extent we are here because somebody's life is at stake. So, you know, this is a -- it's tricky to navigate this because were not part of law enforcement. At the same time, it's obvious that somebody's life is in the -- hangs in the balance here.

So, we're trying to do as much as we can and also kind of draw that line between journalism and helping law enforcement.

BOLDUAN: I entirely appreciate the delicate situation that you have been navigating quite remarkably throughout this, considering the position that you and your organization have been put in since you've been the one sent these letters and these communications, the FBI, you said they were not opposed when I was going to ask what reaction you'd gotten from the FBI when you said, I'm going to do this. So, they're open to -- they're open to ideas.

LEVIN: Not to make light of it, but the first reaction I got was, huh. So, yeah, I mean, look, they're trying to figure out how to get this guy and figure out whether he's real or fake. And so you know, I think look, we put it out there, well see if it works.

But, you know, so far, we have not gotten the information and honestly, Kate, if we do get the information, were going to be radio silent about it because the worst thing would be that you get the information and then we blast it out there. So, if we get it, we'll pass it on to the FBI and then just play the waiting game.

BOLDUAN: And I totally respect that as well. Youve done some. Also you guys have all done you've done some more reporting on this glove that is such a central focus. Right now, that's been found, that's been being tested. What are you picking up about that?

LEVIN: So, I've talked to some law enforcement people about this. And this has been gnawing at me. I hope this is the glove. And they get DNA and they find the kidnapper.

But I got to tell you, they find this glove two miles away. When you think about it, this guy goes into the house with the gloves on. If he took Nancy in his car, which is the only thing that makes sense. The first thing he's going to do is take the gloves off so he can drive and if the gloves are sitting on the seat, how does one end up two miles away on the side of the road? It just doesn't make sense.

So I don't know. You know, maybe this is too logical, but why? If he took the gloves off, would one end up in the field? It -- there's something about it that just my spidey senses have gone up on it, and I can tell you that there are some people in law enforcement who feel the same way

BOLDUAN: Harvey, thank you so much for coming on and for how you are navigating in the TMZ is navigating what is an entirely delicate situation and a tough place, tough position to be put in. I really appreciate it.

OUTFRONT for us next, the newest piece of technology in the search for Nancy Guthrie and how authorities are hoping it helps find her through her pacemaker.

[19:30:07]

Former NSA hacker who created this tool is next.

Plus, we take you inside a violent online movement that's targeting and hurting children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't give a shit about the kids. They're expendable soldiers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:07]

BOLDUAN: More breaking news. We're learning authorities are using what's known as a Bluetooth sniffer to try to ping the signal on Nancy Guthrie pacemaker. Now, this could be a critical new tool in this search that's now into its third week.

OUTFRONT with us now is David Kennedy. He's a former NSA hacker who created and shared this tool with law enforcement.

David, thank you so much for coming in.

So, we've seen and I'm going to show video helicopters that were flying low over Nancy Guthrie neighborhood during this search what are they doing? How does this work?

DAVID KENNEDY, INVENTOR OF PACEMAKER SIGNAL DETECTOR: Yeah. Kate, thanks for having me on.

So, the way that this works is that you know, Nancy has a pacemaker. And in that technology, there's what's called Bluetooth low energy which emits a very non powerful transmission that you can communicate with your mobile devices for its use, for sending diagnostics to the hospital, to the manufacturer, things like that. And so, what they're doing here is that they're flying really low to the ground because the distance you have to be able to intercept that transmission, that signal, that packet is very low so they're sweeping the areas looking for this transmission.

And I was able to confirm that, you know based on the pacemaker that she has, you know, it will broadcast every about 3 to 4 minutes or so with a very small transmission that if authorities are able to capture, that can triangulate exactly where Nancy is directly off of her pacemaker.

BOLDUAN: What's your advice if they haven't been able to locate that signal yet, what are the limitations of it? What are you -- what are you what have you been looking into?

KENNEDY: Yeah, absolutely. So, I spent a lot of time with this as soon as I saw at 2:28 a.m., her pacemaker was disconnected from her phone. Based on my prior experience, I was a signals intelligence analyst, and I have worked very heavily in researching these pacemaker devices as part of my job.

And so, I started to look at how far could we actually get for the transmission to actually capture the signal. And you can use what are called high gain antennas and amplifiers that can expand your reach. So, these devices normally only transmit from about 15 feet to 35 feet in a great situation and with these high gain antennas and amplifiers, we can get over to 800 feet to even 1,000 feet, depending on, you know how close the transmission is. So, we can actually get much further with that.

And so, you know, the biggest thing is, is this looks to be a new capability if they're using helicopters this isn't the most desired type of way to deploy this type of situation because a lot of the electromagnetic magnetic interference that you're going to get from the helicopters themselves, it'd be much more efficient to deploy. Drones can cover much more distance and get closer to the ground to actually do this.

So, you know, I'm hoping that they're taking kind of the next steps of deploying drones. You can launch what are called mesh networks across that environment to kind of distribute the load across a lot of different areas, to find it much faster. But there's a lot of ground to cover and a lot of things that have to go right for this to happen. You have to capture it in the middle of that three to four-minute period of transmissions. But all we need is just one little transmission and it's homed in just to her pacemaker's address.

So, we're only seeing Nancys address as this is going on. This absolutely 100 percent could work. BOLDUAN: Well, you also gave us video that you took showing this

Bluetooth sniffer on what your advice is, which is on a drone. Actually, this was near your home in Ohio. And you think this is actually the next step. This would be the next move and best way to go with the -- because it -- because it's -- well, smaller can fly lower to the ground less electromagnetic interference and can obviously as you said, with your amplifiers really reach a huge distance.

KENNEDY: Yeah, that's exactly right. And they make professional drones that, you know have what are called a payload capacity, meaning you can put a lot of equipment on these devices. So, everything from what's called an omnidirectional antenna, which is think of it as a 360-degree view and then a directional antenna that will allow you to really hone in to exactly where that signals in up to a meter or two of exactly where that signal is at. With GPS location. And so some of these drones can go for 70 to 90 minutes in the sky. They can handle up to 20 pounds of equipment.

Just with my equipment alone and getting 800 feet, I have about 3.7 pounds of total including the battery, the computer, the amplifier and the antenna so you can expand this much, much faster and cover a lot more ground with these types of capabilities. And it's all very possible.

I mean, I had a Bluetooth low energy device in my armpit just to simulate, you know being inside of a human body. And I was able to get over 800 feet of, of actual capture to detect that specific piece there in my -- in my -- in my environment

BOLDUAN: Why, David, do you think they haven't been able to pick up a signal? As far as we know, obviously from her pacemaker? In -- I'm sure there are a million different factors, but do you think it is a proximity problem or could it be another issue?

KENNEDY: Yeah, you have a lot of area to cover. I mean, she could be one mile from the house in a different house, or she could be 100 miles.

[19:40:02]

And so having to cover that type of distance, you know, takes a lot of time. And that's why the drone deployments, I think are really critical piece for this because you can deploy drones with drone operators in a very methodical way and cover a lot of ground really quickly, which would expand this, this network and the distance that you can go with it, based off of that.

So, you know I would assume and again, not knowing specifically the FBI operation that was going on or law enforcement operation going on I would assume that because this capability became available they put some equipment on a helicopter very quickly to see if there's anything in the local vicinity that they could find very quickly, and they would probably try to expand those operations to be able to cover this in the future and that -- that's my hope here is that they continue to expand this, because it is a way that you can absolutely find Nancy if they're in that location, in that area. I mean, even a pacemaker you know, god forbid she's deceased will

still continue to operate for years after, yeah.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, that's exactly I was going to ask you because people will ask if, unfortunately, she is not alive. You say that the signal from the pacemaker would continue.

KENNEDY: That's absolutely right. It can continue for multiple years afterwards. Even if an individual is deceased. And so, you know, there are, you know, things that could, you know cause issues for interference you know, you know, concrete, metal, you know, oversaturation of the wireless networks. But still, when you have those amplifiers and antennas in place, you can cut through a lot of that that noise and really get down to that specific point.

BOLDUAN: Really interesting and important work that you're putting together. I really appreciate it.

David Kennedy, thanks for coming in.

I want to go now to Bob Krygier. He spent 25 years with the Pima County sheriff's department SWAT team, just retired last month.

Bob, there have been one big aspect of it moving away from what we were just talking about in terms of one avenue of investigation that David Kennedy is a specialist in. But one thing we saw, especially over the weekend, that there have been at least two SWAT operations in the search for Nancy Guthrie.

Do you expect there to be many more?

BOB KRYGIER, RETIRED SWAT COMMANDER, PIMA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: First off, thank you for having me.

And yes, I could -- I would predict that there would be more just based on the threat assessment of this type of case where you've got someone who's taken someone against their will. Any time a location needs to be investigated, investigators need to show up the probability the SWAT team going there and securing it for them is probably pretty good. Unless they have some very specific information that there are no threats there. But in this case, we still don't even know who were dealing with from a prospect perspective.

So, I would expect to see what we saw over the weekend probably happen until this case comes to an end.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. Youve been talking to some of the SWAT members who've carried out some of the operations. Are they, I don't know, deterred by the fact that this hasn't led to an arrest yet. How does that -- how does that go for men and women in the field like that?

KRYGIER: I'm sure there's a little bit of frustration setting in on the fact that they all want to do the job and get the job. The case solved. But at the exact same time, they're all very professional, from the SWAT team to the investigators, this is what they do. So when it's time to serve a warrant on the swat side, when it's time to do an investigation or spend hours doing a search, that's what they do and that's what they get paid to do. And they are all very, very professional about it.

So, getting deterred, I doubt it they're going to continue to give their entire effort until again, all avenues have been exhausted and all those 30,000 leads have been looked into.

BOLDUAN: An important role that they're playing in this search to hopefully bring this to a happy ending.

Thank you so much for coming in.

OUTFRONT for us next, a special CNN investigation into a violent online movement inspiring bombings and mass shootings.

And also very differently this, former President George W. Bush honoring the nation's first president. But is he also talking about the current one?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Washington modeled what it means to put the good of the nation over self-interest and selfish ambitions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:48:51]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, an exclusive investigation into a violent online ring targeting children. Government intelligence report obtained exclusively by CNN, describing a subculture obsessed with gore and violence and hurting children.

Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(EXPLOSION)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A massive car bomb rocked several blocks in Palm Springs, California.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blew out the glass.

LAH (voice-over): The target was a fertility clinic. Because it helps create life, the FBI says a young American suicide bomber wanted to destroy it last year, motivated by a dark online ideology to end all life.

The debris now gone, fertility clinic owner Dr. Maher Abdallah still struggles to understand why.

DR. MAHER ABDALLAH, AMERICAN REPRODUCTIVE CENTERS: It just doesn't even make sense. I've never heard of a -- of a bombing targeting, you know, IVF center that creates life.

LAH (voice-over): Dr. Abdallah's clinic is just one of the many real world casualties listed in government intelligence reports obtained exclusively by CNN that warn of the dire threat of nihilistic, violent extremists.

[19:50:05]

These are people living online, driven not by political ideology, but a shared hatred of society at large. The unclassified documents describe, in graphic detail how this subculture is spreading over the web obsessed with gore and violence, encouraging rape and hate. The impact has been felt in real incidents around the globe. A school shooting in Nashville, at least four attacks abroad. Even a plot to assassinate the U.S. president, and the documents warn it is expanding, heightening the threat of mass casualty attacks in the U.S.

While some of the extremists target the public, others focus on hurting individual children. Hearings on Capitol Hill have shown how these groups brainwash children into mutilating themselves.

LAUREN COFFREN, NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING & EXPLOITED CHILDREN: The imagery, the videos, the chats that we are seeing and reading are the most graphic that I have ever seen in my 20-year history.

JASON SOKOLOWSKI, VICTIM'S FATHER: They don't give a shit about the kids. They -- they're expendable soldiers.

LAH: Was your daughter a soldier in this?

SOKOLOWSKI: She definitely was involved and was love bombed and then groomed and then extorted.

LAH (voice-over): Penelope was Jason Sokolowski's daughter.

SOKOLOWSKI: Her and I did everything together.

PENELOPE, SOKOLOWSKI'S DAUGHTER: I love you, daddy.

SOKOLOWSKI: And we had the parental apps. I was looking at her messaging. I was looking at what she was presenting to the world.

LAH (voice-over): What Jason didn't see is what was happening to Penelope in chat. Nihilistic extremists have circulated how to guides to target depressed or mentally ill children. The groups often convince children to share nude or embarrassing photos, and then use those as blackmail.

Start by social engineering the girl into trusting you, one guide reads. Then groom her into producing blood content. The person targeting Penelope convinced her to self-mutilate.

SOKOLOWSKI: I saw up her arm and I saw cuts, and then I lifted the sleeve and there was cuts all the way up her arm, which I'd never dealt with. I had no information on. I noticed that she had culprit written on her leg. That's when I opened up her phone and found messages between her and culprit, her -- her groomer. And in that messaging is when he asks her to cut for him.

LAH (voice-over): Penelope's abuser was a member of something called 764, a group within the larger nihilistic, violent extremist movement. The FBI has opened hundreds of cases, charging dozens of members of the group and its many offshoots for similar abuse. At the time, Jason and authorities didn't understand what was happening to Penelope.

SOKOLOWSKI: I brought this up several times to several doctors. They'd never seen this before, so they had to fit it into categories that they were familiar with.

LAH (voice-over): The government reports say the alarming threat now is that this violence is no longer just online. Some of it has moved off chatrooms and into city streets, like in Palm Springs.

The bomber who targeted the fertility clinic posted an audio message on the web before he died in the blast.

GUY EDWARD BARTKUS, BOMBER: I'm angry that I exist. I'm pro- nonexistence is what I am.

LAH: Is this proof that online ideology has real world impact?

ABDALLAH: It can lead to violence of this magnitude.

LAH (voice-over): Jason says his daughters abuser has not been caught, and Penelope, she died by suicide last February.

SOKOLOWSKI: This massive reservoir of sadness that I have access to at any time, it's always there. It'll always be there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: The documents we obtained show law enforcement has struggled to blunt this threat. Now, one of them states that the FBI has had information gaps on how these extremists use technology to mask their identities. Still, Kate, the FBI did tell us in a statement that it is investigating more than 400 people tied to these violent online networks -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: I mean, just disgusting. Kyung, thank you so much for your reporting.

OUTFRONT for us next, former President George W. Bush with a new message tonight about the nation's first president, and also possibly the current one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:59:11]

BOLDUAN: And tonight, on this Presidents Day, former President George W. Bush pays tribute to America's first president, George Washington. And while he doesn't mention President Trump by name, some of Bush's remarks appear to be directed at America's current president.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BUSH: Few qualities have inspired me more than Washington's humility. Our first president could have remained all powerful, but twice he chose not to. And by once again relinquishing power rather than holding on to it, he ensured America would not become a monarchy or worse. Washington modeled what it means to put the good of the nation over self-interest and selfish ambitions. He embodied integrity and modeled why it's worth aspiring to. And he carried himself with dignity and self-restraint, honoring the office without allowing it to become invested with near mythical powers.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now Bush did go on to say George Washington had his faults and could be, quote, prickly in the words of Thomas Jefferson. But he says it was Washington's humility and character that helped shape the foundation that has allowed America's democracy to thrive now, for 250 years.

Thanks for joining us. I'm Kate Bolduan.

"AC360" starts now.