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Erin Burnett Outfront
Senator Calls Hegseth A "Failure" Without A Strategy For Iran War; Election Test For Trump; Attorney Says Family Of Man Killed By ICE To Sue U.S. Government. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 21, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:21]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Breaking news, Hegseth slammed by both parties, one senator calling him a failure, as Trump's new fixation on attacking Pickaxe Mountain. A suspected nuclear site has Iran threatening a much wider war.
Plus, election night in a major swing state tonight, and a big test of Trump's power. Will his backed candidate win? Or is MAGA losing its magic in the crucial state of Arizona?
And Democrats, lawmakers demanding answers after the ex-wife of the ICE officer connected to the fatal main shooting told OUTFRONT that he was abusive and had no business carrying a gun.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett.
And OUTFRONT tonight, we begin with the breaking news, a failure. Senators slamming Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, one using that very word, as Hegseth appeared before Congress today. The extraordinary hearing comes on the heels of three more American service members killed in the Iran war.
And the admission by the Pentagon that nearly 100 American troops have been injured in just the last two weeks -- in just the last two weeks. Here's just some of the intense bipartisan confrontation that Hegseth faced today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): We need some hard answers and some straight talk. We need straight answers. Do we have the ability to destroy whatever is underneath Pickaxe Mountain.
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): Mr. Secretary, you stated 4 months ago that Iran's military had been rendered, quote, combat ineffective for years to come. Has Iran's military been for the last four months combat ineffective.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's been set back not just years, but likely decades.
(CROSSTALK)
OSSOFF: You stated we had quote -- you stated we had quote. You stated we had, quote --
HEGSETH: It doesn't mean it doesn't have capabilities.
OSSOFF: Mr. Secretary, you stated we had, quote, achieved every single objective.
SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): You, sir, are the failure, not the men and women who are on that front line. You. You don't have a strategy. You don't have a long-term plan to actually win this war. Win the war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: It comes as Trump appears fixated on striking Pickaxe Mountain, a suspected nuclear site.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you believe that Iran has moved nuclear centrifuges into Pickaxe Mountain?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's where the action is, and we'll be hitting that area very -- probably pretty soon, and there's not a thing they can do about it. You know, normally I wouldn't say that. If I thought they could do something about it, I would never say that, but we'll be hitting that area pretty soon. and very heavily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: This sudden focus on Pickaxe Mountain, which is the English translation of the Persian word, raises serious questions. Trump says Pickaxe is, quote, "where the action is". Well, if that is the case, what happened to this repeated assertion after the U.S. attacked Iran's nuclear sites last year?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Iran's key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated.
It was obliterated like nobody's ever seen before.
And in June, we obliterated Iran's nuclear capacity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, that wasn't true. I mean, that was all after last summer, so that was before Trump even started the Iran war itself.
But even as Trump in recent months has talked about how to get Iran's quote-unquote nuclear dust, it's highly enriched uranium, he never mentioned Pickaxe Mountain until the past week. According to a source, Israeli intelligence believes Iran moved advanced centrifuges and part of its stockpile of highly enriched uranium to Pickaxe after the 12- day war last June.
Okay, just think about the timeline here. If that is true, if it raises a massive question. Because if Iran moved nuclear material to Pickaxe after last summer's bombing, why didn't the U.S. and Israel bomb it in the past nearly five months of this war? It does not make any sense.
And, Robert Kelly, a former chief nuclear inspector, who will join me in a moment, says while the intelligence may be attention-grabbing, he believes there's not much to it. So, we're going to have much more from him in just a moment.
Because the sudden introduction of Pickaxe Mountain as some silver bullet solution coming out of nowhere to easily resolve what is a chaotic war with no clear end goal does raise a lot of questions. And when Trump was asked about the lack of a plan and a strategy, he snapped.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, there are no signs that Iran is ready to stop fighting. So what is the plan? Is the plan to just keep bombing until the give up?
TRUMP: There are no signs.
REPORTER: Mr. President, there are no signs that Iran is ready to stop fighting. So, what is the plan? Is the plan to just keep bombing until they give up?
TRUMP: There are no signs.
[19:05:00]
Why -- do you know something that I don't know?
REPORTER: Well, they continue to attack our allies and kill Americans.
TRUMP: You know what the dialogue is behind the scenes that they want to meet desperately to try and end it because they're getting decimated. You don't get that when you listen to your fake station. But you don't know. You don't know anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: His own base, though, is asking the same question. Just listen to what they're saying on Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS ANALYST: He promised to keep us out of endless wars or unsatisfactory wars, and now he's in one, and it's not at all clear how it's going to end. LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: With the midterm elections a little more than 100 days away, the clock is ticking for President Trump to get out of this war before voters head to the polls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Trump so far, though, is not listening to that message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you believe that Iran is trying to impact the midterm elections by threatening the Strait of Hormuz?
TRUMP: They won't have any impact on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Kristen Holmes is OUTFRONT, live outside the White House.
And, Kristen, this Israeli intelligence, right, that we're hearing that the Israeli intelligence is saying that Iran moved a lot of nuclear material to this Pickaxe Mountain after the bombing last summer, that I guess it would have been done last fall. That's the intelligence that all this focus on Pickaxe Mountain right now appears to be based on. What are you learning about it? I mean, how much weight is Trump putting on this Israeli intelligence?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's clear there's at least some weight, given the fact that this fixation, this kind of focus on Pickaxe Mountain, which, as you noted, we hadn't heard anything about, came about at the same time that the intelligence came about.
So, this idea that Pickaxe Mountain, as you said, is some kind of silver bullet solution seems to all focus around this Israeli intelligence. And the other part to note here is that it's coming at a time in which we still don't understand what the United States plan is. They seem to be throwing as much as they can at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Now, President Trump was asked specifically about this Israeli intelligence. He demurred, and he wasn't the only one who was playing coy when it came to Pickaxe Mountain. Pete Hegseth was asked about it as well.
You have to remember, Erin, there are a number of experts who don't believe the United States or anyone has the capabilities to actually hit these nuclear facilities because they're buried so deep underground. And Hegseth was asked specifically about that. He was coy as well, saying that a lot of this is classified, but then he added, if anyone in the world can reach anything, it's the United States.
And all of this is happening. It's the first time Central Command hasn't announced a series of strikes in 10 nights, so we're watching very closely to see what happens in the next couple of hours, Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Kristen, thank you very much at the White House.
And everyone's here with me.
General Spider Marks, you know, you heard the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth today. Obviously very contentious. There were a lot of questions that he was not answering. He repeatedly blamed the Biden administration at times.
What did you make of what you saw today and his handling of this war?
MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, the challenge is, is we don't know what the desired end state is. Nobody has stated what the end looks like. You know, kind of a word picture of when we're complete and when we can walk away. And I don't know that we're going to declare victory, but we can declare mission complete or finished at this stage. And now we're going to phase into a new type of an operation in terms of our engagement with Iran.
Look, economic sanctions and incentives and/or pressure, diplomatic pressure, the information sphere. How do you try to adjust this relationship with Iran? We've learned that they will routinely agree to one thing and do something else, so inevitably we revert to. the military element of power in order to try to achieve results, and we don't know what those results are. That's the frustration.
I think the one lesson we can learn from what we've seen to date is that the application of force does not move the dial any closer to, again, what we think the end state would be, and it's certainly not going to be regime change or any modification to their behavior. That's the issue that we're confronted with right now.
BURNETT: So, Karim, what does Iran see when they look at, and the Iranian regime, the IRGC, when they look at Pete Hegseth today?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Erin, the Iranian regime has been diminished militarily, but it's really been boosted psychologically. And the lesson it learned from this war is that you don't gain concessions from Donald Trump by compromising. but by punching back hard at U.S. bases in the region, at U.S. partners in the region, by continuing to exert control over the Strait of Hormuz.
And there is no indication that some of the conversations which Vice President Vance have described is very constructive with Iran behind the scenes, there's no indication that the public conduct of the Iranian regime, they're preparing for any kind of meaningful compromise when it comes to the strait and their nuclear program.
[19:10:16]
They're dug in, and I think they are eager to continue to try to humiliate President Trump.
BURNETT: So, Robert Kelley, the former -- Europe, former IEA weapons inspector, so you know more than anybody about these sites. and how Iran uses them and what inspectors found. When Trump is now just sort of out of nowhere talking about Pickaxe Mountain, which, as I said, is the English transition, approximation, translation of the Farsi term for the mountain, this intelligence that's coming from Israel. We understand that Israeli intelligence says Iran moved advanced centrifuges and part of its highly enriched uranium stockpile to that site.
Now, just, you know, again, you know the details here. So, I'll show everyone the latest satellite images we have of this particular site, Pickaxe. This is from late June. There's large trucks and vehicles near an entrance.
But let me just ask you, and you know, when you look at this, you know the site. You know it's come up out of nowhere now. It wasn't bombed in this war so far, when presumably if Israeli intelligence is saying that they moved this stuff there last fall, they knew about it before this war started. So, there's a lot of questions that don't have answers here.
What do you think?
ROBERT KELLEY, FORMER CHIEF NUCLEAR INSPECTOR IN IRAQ, INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: I think the first thing you need to look at is the Israeli intelligence is not intelligence. It's the third of leaks that have been put off for the last two weeks that are designed to confuse. So don't mix up this as calling an intelligence. It is something that's put forward to try to mislead us.
Pickaxe has been known for years. If you look at Pickaxe, you'll see a lack of things that should be there. It's not connected to the previous enrichment site, which is only a few kilometers away, and it doesn't have the right indications, like it doesn't have enough electricity, it doesn't have a cooling system there, and it has these trucks going in and out, which you wouldn't have if you have a sensitive centrifuge plant in there.
But if you want to really, really see where this comes from, we've been told now for weeks that the U.S. has satellite imagery that would tell us if the stockpile of enriched uranium was being moved. And that stockpile is a couple dozen small cylinders about the size of a fire extinguisher. So, we know that they can't move this around because we've been told that.
And now suddenly, Israel tells us that thousands of centrifuges, which were much, much bigger and would require an awful lot of effort, thousands of centrifuges have been moved, and we missed it.
Come on. Let's look at this and think, these people are dragging us around, and we're not that stupid.
BURNETT: I mean, so, Robert, why do you think, the way you lay this out, why do you think then Trump is entertaining this idea and embracing this as some sort of silver bullet idea?
KELLEY: Honestly, I think the first reason, he's fascinated by the name. He likes names. He likes to call things by names. If it was called Sugarloaf Mountain, there probably wouldn't be so much interest to them. It's a very, very deeply buried facility.
BURNETT: Yeah.
KELLEY: You can see that there's a big tunnel going inside, which is not necessary for a centrifuge plant. It looks like a manufacturing operation that is not yet complete, and it doesn't look like an industrial facility that produces things chemically.
BURNETT: Kareem, what do you think the Iranian regime view is of this suddenly coming out now? The Israeli intelligence comes out about this out of nowhere. And suddenly Trump's talking about bombing Pickaxe Mountain. What is the impact of that to the Iranian regime?
SADJADPOUR: I don't think it really impacts their conduct or their calculations in this war. Right now, the focus should be on restoring the Strait of Hormuz, preventing Iran's proxy, the Houthis, from blocking the Bab El-Mandeb, which is another key energy corridor. The focus should be on protecting U.S. bases in the region and protecting our allies.
And going after Pickaxe Mountain is not addressing any of those challenges.
BURNETT: General Marks, Iran has been hitting U.S. bases. They are threatening to expand this war more broadly if something like Pickaxe is brought into the equation. We now know at least 18 Americans have been killed or missing that are that are soldiers in this war troops in this war, 100 injured in the past two weeks and I wanted to show everyone in that context, General, something Trump posted on social media today.
He posted the dead in multiple wars. Afghanistan War, 20 years, 2,000 dead. He goes. He goes on war by war, Iraq, Vietnam, Korean, Venezuela and then he ends with Iran military conflict, four months, 18 dead.
[19:15:02]
His entire point is, look at how this hasn't gone that long and look at there haven't been that many people who died. Your reaction.
MARKS: Yeah, it's -- it's quite frustrating to read that. Look, my heartfelt condolences go out to those families that lost their young men and women over the course of this engagement, as we've lost others in the past, and I've got very personal scar tissue with all of that.
You don't measure success of any engagement based on the number of KIA. What the president did is inexcusable. It doesn't. It doesn't. There's no causality between what he is doing. with this tweet and what we're trying to achieve, again, which remains somewhat a mystery --
BURNETT: And what about the fact that he won't call it a war? He called the Venezuela situation a war, even though it was one day. He refused to call the Iran war a war.
MARKS: Yeah, I can't respond to that, Erin. And I know that's really more rhetorical than anything else.
I don't get it. This is not what you want the president of the United States to do. You want him to embrace the effort that was put forward, convince the American people that this is the right thing to do and describe it, and realize that we've got a coalition of partners that are going to help and continue to help and not diminish what they're trying to put forward. Let's pressure test what everybody brings to the table.
That's what the commander-in-chief is supposed to do, and I'm seeing that. I have not seen that to date. That's the problem.
BURNETT: All right, I appreciate all of you, and thank you very much.
Next, an attorney for the family of the man killed by ICE in Maine says he's planning to sue the U.S. government, he says, for not properly vetting ICE agents. It comes after the ex-wife of the ICE officer connected to the deadly shooting told OUTFRONT he should never have been carrying a gun.
Plus, free speech or just plain harassment. Content creators who claim they're protecting the First Amendment are being accused of intimidating and antagonizing people just to get clicks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Split, ten-eight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buckle and bounce, bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there you have it, folks. Like, share, subscribe, all the fun stuff. Speaker
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Trump's power over the Republican Party facing a major test tonight. His MAGA-backed candidate hoping to pull off what some other Trump-backed candidates for governor failed to do, and that is a big win. Paul Rieckhoff, Jamal Simmons, and S.E. Cupp are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:46]
BURNETT: Breaking news, all eyes on Arizona tonight, where Trump's power faces a major test once again. As voters go to the polls tonight, Trump-backed MAGA candidate, Congressman Andy Biggs is trying to win a very closely watched Republican primary for governor. And there's a lot on the line for President Trump's endorsement tonight, because when it comes to governor's primaries, Trump has suffered two recent high-profile losses. Those are in the primaries in Iowa and Georgia.
Bigg's primary opponent is Republican Congressman David Schweikert, who has consistently won in one of Arizona's most competitive congressional districts. He argues that the party can't gamble with a MAGA. taking on Democratic incumbent Governor Katie Hobbs in the fall.
So, everyone is here with me. We got Jamal, and we got Paul, and we got S.E.
S.E., let me ask you, just as you look at it tonight, does this look like a win for Trump?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he's going to -- Andy Biggs is going to win the primary tonight, but in very much the same way that Texas Senate is going to be a rough general for Ken Paxton, I think it's going to be a rough general for Andy Biggs.
It's remarkable. You know, MAGA has been trying to win in Arizona for a while, and they have not cracked the code. And I have a lot of affection for Arizona voters. I lived in Arizona as a kid. I have family there. I'm plugged into Arizona politics.
They are independent, right? And they choose who they choose. They like John McCain. They like, you know, going back to Barry Goldwater, real independent kind of guys and MAGA has not been able to field the right kind of candidate. They keep putting up Looney Tunes.
I was talking to someone plugged into Arizona politics today who said if they would just nominate someone normal, this would be easy. I think we're, you know, Arizona voters want to vote for a Republican really badly, but candidates like Andy Biggs are making it really hard. We'll see if he can pull it off in November, but I think he's going to win tonight.
BURNETT: And, Paul, Biggs is -- yes, he has been trying to highlight his partnership with the late Senator John McCain. And I'm going to talk about what the McCains are doing now in a moment. But when it comes down to it, Biggs is a Trump man. He's a Trump man, and he's a proud Trump man. I mean, just listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Who won the election in Arizona? Donald Trump --
REP. ANDY BIGGS (R-AZ): We don't know, because as the audit demonstrates very clearly, Mr. Raskin, there are a lot of issues with this election that took place. If anyone is persisting in telling a big lie, it's members of the J6 committee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, Paul, I'm going to say that's even different than we're hearing in recent days from people who are at least they'll say Biden was certified. They may not say he won, but they'll say we're serving. Annie Biggs saying, we don't know.
I mean, that's even a whole another step.
PAUL RIECKHOFF, HOST OF THE INDEPENDENT AMERICANS PODCAST: And I think that's a losing strategy in Arizona, because S.E.'s right. Arizona is a very independent-minded place. I think roughly 34 percent of the voters there are independent, which is higher, I think, than the number of Democrats.
And aligning yourself with John McCain would be a winning strategy. That's the kind of Republican Arizona's like. They like a veteran, they like a maverick.
And if you look at recent statewide elections, it's been someone who's a veteran, who's moderate, like Gallego, like Kelly, that's been successful statewide.
[19:25:00]
So, if he wants to win statewide, he's going to have to moderate and he's going to have to create some distance from Trump. If he doesn't, he's going to get hit hard, especially with independents.
BURNETT: And it's really hard to moderate off of we don't know who won the election, Jamal.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is hard to do that. People believe that Arizona is a red state, and maybe it is, but it looks awfully purple to the rest of us, right? You've got a Democratic governor, you've got two Democratic senators, And I think that most people in the state, as S.E. just said, probably would be open to a Republican if they were normal, if they just could say the things that, low taxes and business regulation and all the old stuff that people used to like Republicans for.
BURNETT: More libertarian.
SIMMONS: More libertarian, but these days you can't get Republicans to do that.
BURNETT: All right, so, S.E., let's talk about John McCain, because, as I said, Biggs is trying to say, well, these are the ways in which he had worked with the late Senator John McCain, but John McCain's wife, Cindy, is fundraising,
She's not fundraising for Schweikert. She's fundraising for the Democratic Governor, Katie Hobbs. OK, she's fundraising for the Democrat. I mean, just think about what that says from Cindy McCain. What is the impact of that on Arizona voters?
CUPP: Yeah, I mean, I don't think she would put it this way. And full disclosure, I'm friends with McCain's, but this is sort of Cindy's revenge.
The -- what MAGA tried to do to the McCains in Arizona, these, you know, really beloved public figures in the state, was appalling. Not only did they try to tarnish his legacy, but they lied right about the McCains. They said awful things about the McCains. Kari Lake in particular, just despicable.
That turned off a lot of Arizona voters. I think MAGA really wanted to win without John McCain or move past John McCain because of Trump's sort of like, you know, hurt feelings with him. But Arizona Republicans are saying no, if you want to win. You should act more like John McCain and sound more like John McCain.
And so, I think that's what Andy Biggs is trying to do. I'm not sure Arizona Republicans are going to buy that.
BURNETT: So, Paul, you know, when you look at this, then you're coming into the general. And you have had some Trump victories for Congress, right? Some far, far right. And then you've had some far, far left victories, okay? So, there's a problem on both sides, perhaps.
When you look at the fundraising, though, you know, you look at over just this assumption that because of history and because of the current context, the Democrats are going to do really well. And then, all of a sudden, the generic ballot polls started coming out and it didn't look so overwhelming. And that's just a poll and whatever.
But the money came out and that was unbelievable. Republicans have $541 million, half a billion dollars more cash on hand than Democrats. That's just the latest FEC filing. That's that is a massive a massive difference.
RIECKHOFF: It's a huge war chest, and they're growing it, and they're going to bring in a lot of dark money and outside money, and they're going to unload.
And I think what we've underscored for months is the primary problem, which is that both parties are putting forward more and more extreme candidates. Now we see it in Arizona with someone like Biggs coming from MAGA. We saw it in New York with the DSA and the socialists who are putting folks more forward to the left. And then ultimately, it's going to be a battle for the middle.
And the money is going to be targeted almost exponentially on independents. In a state like Arizona, 34 percent of people who aren't Democrats, who aren't Republican, and that's where that money's going to be focused.
It's another example of how broken our politics are. The primaries are broken, campaign finance is broken, and this is going to get really nasty.
BURNETT: But, Jamal, okay, so then a "Washington Post" poll. So, the generic ballot was way closer than the coverage out there would show. However, when it comes to enthusiasm, Democrats have a significant edge over Republicans in a Washington Post poll eight-point lead.
Okay, eight-point lead. I don't know. Do you think that's a big lead? And then also, is that more important than half a billion dollars? And by the way, a lot more where that came from, fighting for the other side.
SIMMONS: Yeah, eight points in enthusiasm is a big lead. I'd like to see the generic ballot go up to more like four or five points, because the way things are sort of gerrymandered, you've got to have an extra bump for Democrats to be able to hold on. But here's the thing -- it's not about who has the most money. It's
about who has enough money to tell their story and compete. And one of the things we're seeing right there right now out in the electorate is people are really mad at the way things are going. They're mad at the establishment and the status quo. They think that the elites and the wealthy are getting all the benefits while they're being left behind.
So, the candidate that can channel that anger and that fury is the one that really has the leg up. And one thing about candidates or voters who are enthusiastic, they give money and that money goes into hard bank accounts, which means it's easier and more powerful to spend in an election than soft money.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much. I appreciate you.
And next, the family of the man killed by ICE in Maine, responding to our interview with the ex-wife of the officer connected to the shooting. She says her ex-husband should never have been allowed to carry a gun.
Plus, Trump upping the ante as he goes head-to-head again with Canada. And, well, Canadians -- Canadians have really strong opinions now about the United States. Really strong opinions. And Harry Enten is here to tell us something that we may not want to know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Breaking news, the attorney for the family of 25-year-old Joan Sebastian Guerrero, who was killed by ICE in Biddeford, Maine, says he is planning to sue the U.S. government on the family's behalf, accusing ICE of intentionally hiring unqualified agents.
The attorney telling OUTFRONT, quote, "If it turns out that the federal agent was an individual who suffered from severe depression and multiple psychiatric episodes, who suffered a concussion that left him with cognitive deficits, what a truly tragic and infuriating thing it is that our own government, who knew or should have known about all these things, gave that man a badge and a gun."
It comes as the ex-wife of the agent connected to that fatal shooting tells OUTFRONT that her ex-husband called her on the phone and told her he was the one who fired the shot at Duran Guerrero.
[19:35:06]
Ashley Brouillette also talked about enduring years of abuse during their relationship. CNN hasn't independently confirmed which agent fatally shot Duran Guerrero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY BROUILLETTE, EX-WIFE OF ICE OFFICER AT SCENE OF FATAL SHOOTING: I experienced severe domestic violence in my marriage with David. throughout the whole year and a half that we were married. I experienced physical, emotional, mental, even financial abuse from him. BURNETT: Do you believe he's someone who should be an ICE agent, armed ICE agent?
BROUILLETTE: No, I don't believe that he's anyone that should be obtaining a job that requires any kind of weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Democratic Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota. She, along with 38 other senators, is now demanding answers from DHS about how ICE recruits, vets, and trains its officers. She's also from the state where U.S. citizens Renee Good and Alex Pretti were fatally shot by ICE agents.
Senator Smith, I appreciate your time tonight.
So, you know, Ashley Brouillette talked about terrible domestic abuse. She relayed a story about boiling water being thrown at her while she's holding her five -- at the time, five-month-old daughter. And she says her ex-husband should never be carrying a gun, never, because of the domestic abuse that she endured, never mind the incident that CNN has obtained legal documents about with this particular individual saying that he had suffered a traumatic brain injury in recent years.
You know, what's your reaction to her story?
SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): We are here nearly almost exactly six months this Friday from when ICE agents brutally shot and killed Alex Pretti on the streets of Minneapolis. And six months later, we still have this agency that is dangerous and unaccountable and reckless, and it results in the loss of another life in Joan Guerrero.
To hear these stories about how this person who could not have been vetted in any meaningful way was given a gun and a badge and the permission by the federal government of the United States to shoot into a car and kill somebody, who apparently they didn't even really know who they were going after, when this terrible shooting happened. It's just so stunning.
And six months later, it feels as if there has been so little progress made around setting basic guardrails around this unaccountable domestic police force that, as I said, is so dangerous for people in this country.
BURNETT: So Ashley, Brouillette's ex-wife, also talked about these warning signs that she had seen. And I mentioned them, Senator, in the context of the fact that these, she says, were -- this was loud and clear and out there long before he would have applied for a job to join ICE. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I know when you talk about that abuse, you said he even threw boiling water at you once while you were holding your child?
BROUILLETTE: Yes, we were arguing while I was getting dinner started and I had put that water on there. It had just started to boil and he picked up the pot by the handle and just threw it at me while I'm so they're not daughter, who was about five months old at that time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Senator, you're demanding answers about this, along with 38 other senators. Obviously, absolutely horrific thing which she just described. Has DHS given you any answers?
SMITH: We haven't had any response yet. And, you know, we -- in this letter that so many of my colleagues signed, we are asking them, particularly narrowing in on the failure of the Department of Homeland Security to follow through on their promises to make sure that these agents have body cameras so that we can understand exactly, we can have accountability about exactly what they are doing, putting aside the issue that you're raising, Erin, which is so important, which is how are these agents being vetted and how can we make sure that they are actually, you know, physically and emotionally and socially prepared to do this job?
No, we have not had any answers yet. And as I said, we continue to wait to see them just put in place the basic safeguards that every police department in the country and your local community has in place.
BURNETT: So, DHS still hasn't even revealed the identity of the officer who shot and killed Duran Guerrero, right? Mr. Brouillette picked up the phone, called his ex-wife, and told her he did it, right? That's what this is based on. They have not confirmed it.
And when Trump's border czar Tom Homan was asked directly how this particular ICE agent got hired, right, how could somebody get through the system? Like this. Here's how Tom Homan responds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:40:02]
REPORTER: On the ICE officer in Maine, is there more any -- is there any more clarity on how he got his job, considering the vetting concerns that his wife has raised? Are there potential changes coming to the vetting process of ICE agents?
TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: That's a question for ICE. That's under investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Is that an acceptable answer?
SMITH: Completely not. I mean, listen, we know what's going on here. They were involved in a massive surge of hiring 10,000 agents. They were offering signing bonuses to recruit people in. Their concern was not being held accountable for who these individuals were or where they were coming from. And it is tragic to think that this is the result because, I mean, how
could anybody listen to this story and feel that this was something that could have been avoided if we had responsible people making decisions in ICE and Customs and Border Patrol about who they were hiring and what kind of standards they were going to hold them to.
And understand, like right now, this is all happening in the context of reports that the FBI will no longer be asked to investigate interactions between people and ICE agents, which is really nothing more than a blank, you know, get out of jail free card for people who know they're not going to be held accountable when they do something that is illegal.
BURNETT: Senator Smith, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for being with us tonight.
And OUTFRONT next, have content creators who claim that they're protecting the First Amendment gone too far, oftentimes confronting private citizens, business owners, or police just to get clicks?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, here come the cops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: POPOs have arrived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have two, three, three cars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And Canada responding to Trump after his latest threats of massive tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm tired of the bully trying to take our lunch money all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So how do Canadians en masse really feel? Harry Enten is here to tell us something we don't know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:17]
BURNETT: Tonight, Trump going after Canada again. Trump announcing a new 50 percent tariff on Canadian imports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Canada's been very, very tough on us over the years, for many years, and no other president's done anything about it. They need us to survive. Without us, there's no way they can survive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And that came after Trump suggested Canada should, quote, "pay us some damages for the wildfire smoke that has hovered over the United States in recent days". Trump said that he made that comment directly to Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney when the two were together for the World Cup final match on Sunday.
Harry Enten is OUTFRONT to tell us something we don't know, you know, such as how Mr. Carney responded to that question. Okay.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: So Canada is fed up, you know, publicly what we hear with Trump, right? So the Ontario premier, Ontario, obviously the economic engine of Canada, Doug Ford just told reporters this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG FORD, ONTARIO PREMIER: We can't keep rolling over for President Trump. We can't back down. I'm tired of the bully trying to take our lunch money all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So he's a politician?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes.
BURNETT: Okay? But how do Canadians feel?
ENTEN: I think they feel exactly the same way that he feels.
Donald Trump has managed to pull a wonderful magic trick that has taken ally, a longtime ally like Canada, and all of a sudden, Canadians, they hate, hate, hate the United States of America. I mean, just take a look at the net favorable rating trend line here from before when Trump, before it took office the second time around, it was plus 13 points. Look at that drop now, that's a nearly 50-point drop.
Now Canadians have a minus 33 net favorable view of the United States, inside out, round and round, upside down. Diana Ross.
BURNETT: It's amazing. I mean, I usually think about countries --
ENTEN: Unbelievable.
BURNETT: -- with a border, not at war, longtime allies. Have you ever seen something like that?
ENTEN: No.
BURNETT: I can't imagine there's any place in history where --
ENTEN: It's unprecedented.
BURNETT: So, what about Trump specifically?
ENTEN: Yeah, talk about confidence in the United States president. You know, back when Joe Biden was president in 2024, majority of Canadians had, in fact, confidence in Joe Biden in the U.S. president. We're talking 52 percent.
Now look at it. Now just 20 percent have confidence in the president of the United States. Look at that not confident number, that percentage. From 46 to 79, we're talking four in five Canadians are not confident in the president of the United States, and that is what is driving this dislike, dare I say, hatred that Canadians have in the United States overall.
BURNETT: Okay, which is very troubling for Americans, because this is not reciprocated. Tell me something I don't like.
ENTEN: It is not reciprocated. I'll tell you something you don't know. Canadians may not like the United States, but Americans still like Canada. I mean, look at the favorable views that Americans have of Canada. We're still talking four and five, 80 percent, the unfavorable just 15 percent.
So what we basically went, we were mutual allies --
BURNETT: Who are those 15 percent?
ENTEN: They're Republicans, for the most part, who are following Donald Trump's lead. That's who they are.
BURNETT: Right, so they're -- okay.
ENTEN: But it's a very small, very small portion.
BURNETT: Yeah, it's just, but gosh, all right. Thank you very much, Harry.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, this is a public building, ma'am, and I have every right to record in here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's about to call it though.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, that's fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Content creators claim they're making provocative videos in order to protect the First Amendment, but have they gone too far? A special CNN investigation is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:54:05]
BURNETT: Tonight, clickbait in the name of the Constitution. First Amendment content creators openly profiting off of social media videos, where they antagonize law enforcement, business owners, and other citizens.
Now, they claim they're doing this to protect freedom of speech, but is that what it is?
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IAN PFISTER, SELF-PROCLAIMED "FIRST AMENDMENT AUDITOR": All righty, y'all. What up, Doe? Welcome to this world.
Today, we are back in good old Royal Oak.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ian and Pam Pfister, husband and wife duo, are out in the Detroit suburbs, recording nearly every day to capture content for their YouTube and Facebook channels.
IAN PFISTER: I'm simply recording in public. I'm documenting life as it happened.
LAH: It's a stress test.
IAN PFISTER: It is. It's a stress test of the First Amendment.
LAH (voice-over): And always a surprise test.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma'am, what are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just taking a video.
LAH (voice-over): Conducted by the self-styled First Amendment auditors.
The Pfisters say they're protecting the U.S. Constitution, using their cell phones for freedom of speech, assembly, and the press.
[19:55:06]
IAN PFISTER: And we're here at the Smart Bus Transit Center, and we're going to go check it out real quick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't film in here.
IAN PFISTER: Oh, yeah, I can.
LAH: I mean, it is a place that the public can access.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
IAN PFISTER: No, this is a public building, ma'am, and I have every right to record in here.
UNIDNTIFIED MALE: She's about to call authority.
IAN PFISTER: Okay, that's fine.
LAH: Oh, here come the cops.
IAN PFISTESR: POPOs have arrived.
LAH: We have two, three, three cars, so police are taking this place. We're on this side of the street because we want to make sure that we are separate.
LAH (voice-over): I can see though that the Pfisters never stop rolling.
IAN PFISTER: Listen.
POLICE OFFICER: You cannot do that.
IAN PFISTER: Listen --
POLICE OFFICER: Talk about that. I'm telling you I've got the city attorney on this that's saying this is privately owned.
IAN PFISTER: What would be fine is for my First Amendment rights to be respected. How am I disorderly? Because I'm not --
POLICE OFFICER: You're going to go to jail.
IAN PFISTER: So you're going to arrest me if I don't leave?
POLICE OFFICER: Yes.
IAN PFISTER: Okay, I'm the threat of arrest. You hear that? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) What a big tyrant.
LAH (voice-over): This is a public building. The bus company told CNN the public can record video inside. Wrong or right, the Pfisters launch into their audit as their cameras record.
IAN PFISTER: You're a real piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you know?
LAH: They seem to be thriving off of the confrontation.
PAM PFISTER, CONTENT CREATOR: As many interactions as we've had with Maria Loca, I've never came across your fucking ass. I just want to know what we violated to get thrown out of a public place.
IAN PFISTER: He don't even know. He's too stupid. He don't even know the laws. Oof.
LAH: That's a good bit of cursing. Ian's over there, giving the freedom finger to the police.
IAN PFISTER: Yeah, split. PAM PFISTER: Buckle and bounce, bitch.
Well, there you have it, folks. Like, share, subscribe, all the fun stuff. Much love. WTTW out.
LAH: How would you say that this went?
IAN PFISTER: Well, it's bad overall for the First Amendment and for freedom, but it's good for views and clicks. It'll be a banger video. If I took that arrest and went into court and took it to court, they're going to dismiss that.
LAH: You were not thinking.
IAN PFISTER: I was thinking about possibly taking the arrest.
LAH Aren't you nervous, especially given what happened with Zimmerman?
IAN PFISTER: Well, that's the only reason why I didn't take the arrest was because I got something over my head that I'm dealing with right now.
LAH (voice-over): This is what happened at Zimmerman's meat market in suburban Detroit. As recorded by the Pfisters earlier this year.
IAN PFISTER: I got a Maxi pad in my bag if you need it.
LAH (voice-over): The owner, Richard Hobig, became agitated and called police.
As officers arrived, Hobig went outside.
IAN PFISTER: I'll spray the out of you, mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Stay back. Stay the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) back.
LAH (voice-over): That was pepper spray the Pfister says he used in self-defense. Richard Hobig went by ambulance to the hospital. His face is red in this picture posted by his daughter, appeared to be burned from the pepper spray. She wrote her father has had major heart issues and experienced chest pain. They didn't want to talk to CNN, saying their business continues to be bombarded by calls and even death threats.
IAN PFISTER: Put me in fear. I had to actually deploy the pepper spray this time.
LAH (voice-over): The county prosecutor charged Ian Pfister with assault.
LAH: So, who's wrong here in the Zimmerman meat incident?
IAN PFISTER: Oh, well, definitely him for doing that for come charging --
LAH: He's -- he's the one.
IAN PFISTER: Oh yeah, because I wasn't doing nothing wrong.
PROF. KAREN NORTH, USC ANNENBERG DIGITAL & SOCIAL MEDIA: So they're getting money off this ad right here.
LAH (voice-over): This is social media expert and USC Professor Karen North.
NORTH: These are not people who are particularly like auditing people's First Amendment rights. These are people intimidating and antagonizing people and trying to get clickbait videos, unfortunately.
So then there's a financial incentive for filming harassing people.
LAH: How does this income compare to what you did before?
IAN PFISTER: It's much better. Much better income.
PAM PFISTER: Equal to my everyday nine-to-five job.
IAN PFISTER: Or more.
PAM PFISTER: Or more.
LAH (voice-over): As we watch him work in Michigan, he's stopped multiple times --
IAN PFISTER: Good to meet you.
LAH (voice-over): -- by his online fans.
IAN PFISTER: Appreciate the support.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, hey, be safe, man.
IAN PFISTER: Yep, thank you.
LAH (voice-over): He doesn't want to quit.
IAN PFISTER: All I know is even if the world ends in a week, I'm just going to record it. Whatever happens, I'm going to record it. If there's an Internet, I'll put it up.
And it's not going nowhere. That's for sure. Social media is the future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH: There is a speed bump in that plan. A jury convicted Ian Pfister of assault because of that pepper spray incident. The sentencing is scheduled in about two weeks and if you're wondering why I'm standing outside this Trader Joe's, Erin, is because First Amendment auditors have been at this very grocery store. They collect that content. They have those interactions with people trying to shop here and then they post it to social media.
We did reach out to a couple of social media companies, both Meta and YouTube. They say that they do have compliance rules. They require that you have to comply, including harassment -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Kyung, thank you very much. That was just fascinating. Kyung Lah reporting, as he said, from Los Angeles.
And thanks so much to all of you for being with us.
"AC360" starts now.
