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Erin Burnett Outfront

GOP Senator Urges Trump To Fire Hegseth, Praises Army Secretary; NYT: Fed Agents Ordered To Find Voter Fraud Amid Baseless Trump Claims; Minneapolis Shooting: 1 Dead, Several Injured, Including 2 Officers; Trump Hosting White House Dinner For Republicans In Tough Battleground Races. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 02, 2026 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:26]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Find a new defense secretary. That is what a top Republican is demanding tonight, urging Trump to fire Pete Hegseth after he continues to force out top military leaders.

Plus, Trump's gold coin, it's out. It's already on back order. But how is a gold coin with Trump's face on it resonating with voters when they're struggling with high prices?

And, defying Trump. MapQuest refusing to go along with Trump's order to rename Lake Ontario Lake America. And that decision is paying off big time for MapQuest. Its top executive is our guest.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

(MUSIC)

BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

And OUTFRONT tonight, fire Pete Hegseth. That is what Republican Senator Tom Tillis is demanding tonight. Tillis was the deciding vote to confirm Hegseth, so it's significant that he's willing to say no more.

Tonight, he writes, quote, "I have never witnessed more inept management of the brave men and women who serve our country. He is intimidated by competence and retreats to ginning up culture wars instead of soberly attending to the vital work of our national defense and the health and well-being of our fighting force. I urge the president to find a new leader at the Pentagon who will retain and empower our military talent rather than diminish it."

Now, it is -- ever since he was inaugurated, Hegseth, of course, has been at the forefront of pushing experienced leaders out. I mean, let's just show you some of the top military leaders who were gone under Hegseth. Some were fired, some resigned. The list includes senior Pentagon leaders, senior military officials, people with decades of experience. The very latest, of course, Army Secretary Dan Driscoll this week.

Today, in fact, was his last day. In a final message, Driscoll writes, "I have the privilege of working with them to modernize and accelerate how the Army mans, trains, and equips the most lethal fighting force on the face of the Earth."

Now, it's important what he mentioned there, modernize. That word is significant, and the work Driscoll was doing there was very significant. CNN has learned that Driscoll was concerned about drone warfare and that Hegseth was pushing out leaders who were spearheading efforts to deal with drone warfare and other modernization efforts like General Christopher Donahue.

In fact, CNN has learned, Donahue was working with the Ukrainians to equip U.S. troops with cheap, lethal drones to use against Iran, instead of blowing through crucial and expensive munitions like Hegseth has choose to do instead.

In fact, the United States has burned through almost half of its global Tomahawk missile supply, according to Reuters. Global.

So that means anything, anywhere in the world, Asia-Pacific region, China, all of that, half of the Tomahawks in this Iran war.

And today, Trump was asked if he's concerned about the of leaders in the military. Here's his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats hold up the confirmation like crazy. I mean, you get -- I mean, you don't get one vote. I could take those three -- Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, George Washington. And if I put them up in this modern era, they would get no Democrat support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Trump trying to make it a political point, but the facts matter here. The reason that there are so many vacancies is not because of political playmanship in Washington or Democrats. It's actually because of Hegseth, who has talked often about his main priority in the military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Reviving the warrior ethos. The warrior ethos. Unbreakable warrior ethos.

I talk a lot about reviving the warrior ethos. And then that gets to reviving the warrior ethos. And then my job is to restore the warrior ethos. Where we're restoring the warrior ethos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And then, you know, remember how he infamously talked about getting more testosterone to troops. So, Hegseth's focus on what he calls the warrior ethos has military

leaders growing concerned about the Army's ability to fight. Sources are telling CNN that he's pushed out leaders, of course, who don't align with his vision and his perception of masculinity.

And that is putting America at a disadvantage, which is one of the reasons that Tillis wants Hegseth gone. Tillis also points out that Hegseth is not attending to the well-being of troops, something that obviously many have raised as an issue after the conditions on the USS Abraham Lincoln were made public.

After a record nine-month stint, that ship finally had its first port call overnight, a ship that was plagued with reports of multiple sailors going overboard, a lack of food, and basic necessities, some of which was exacerbated by damage done to U.S. bases in the Middle East, forcing the U.S. to unexpectedly have to get supplies from a lot farther away.

Kristen Holmes is OUTFRONT live outside the White House.

[19:05:01]

And, Kristen, Trump tried to blame Democrats for the dysfunction in the military, but, of course, the military is run by his secretary of defense, or as he calls him, his secretary of war. Does Trump have any recognition of Hegseth's central role in all of this?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: If he does, he's certainly not acknowledging it, and it doesn't seem as though he will acknowledge it. There have been multiple opportunities with multiple resignations and firings that President Trump could have stepped in. And in fact, he did the opposite. We know in certain firings and resignations, President Trump told military officials that this was Pete Hegsest's decision and sorry, he made the final call.

And so, he's deferring to him in that way. But I can tell you that I've talked to a number of military officials, and these are not military officials who are partisan. They are bipartisan. They are Republicans who supported President Trump who feel the same way that Thom Tillis does, that Hegseth is not doing the role that he is meant to be doing in the way he's supposed to be doing.

And they worry about the future of the Pentagon. They worry about the future of the military under Hegseth. And there have been these internal conversations that they've been having about how concerned they are.

And of course, you pointed to CNN's reporting as well that Haley Bretzky had about this kind of focus on these culture wars. But overall, one of the things I was told very early on by this administration was that it would take an enormous act to get President Trump to turn on Hegseth, a lot of that being because this White House, the president, his team exuded enormous amount of capital -- political capital to get headsets across the finish line. They were all in on him and it doesn't appear as though that's going to end anytime soon. Now, of course, it's President Trump. We've seen him turn on people

very quickly, but as of now, I mean, you heard him there. He really deferred the entire thing to Democrats, didn't even bring up the fact that this is something that we had seen the reporting on that Dan Driscoll had brought up to President Trump when he -- when he resigned. So, the idea that he would completely ignore that and focus on Democrats, not even mention Pete Hegseth, just shows you where his head is.

BURNETT: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you talk about takes a major event, too, just to think about some of the basic things, right? Burning through half of the global supply of tomahawks is a major event, right? So, it's got to be something more and different than that, and it's hard to imagine what that would be.

Kristen, thank you very much at the White House.

And everyone is here with me now.

General Hodges, may I start with you? Do you agree with Senator Tillis, who has come out and obviously speaking so bluntly here, saying that Defense Secretary Hegseth needs to go?

LT. GENERAL BEN HODGES (RET.), FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY EUROPE: Well, I have to say, I'm glad that members of the Congress, people like Senator Tillis, are finally speaking out. They have constitutional responsibility for oversight, Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. And the Senate Armed Services Committee is pretty much stood by while so much damage has been done to our military to include the hollowing out of Army leadership and the picture you showed of all those generals and admirals who have been sent off by the secretary of defense.

You talk about some of the most tough warfighters, lethal people like CD Donahue and Randy George and Jim Mingus. These people know they are the warrior ethos, so I don't understand why the secretary sends him away.

Clearly, he has the authority to do that, but he never explains why, and I think that fuels speculation as to other motives. Nobody can learn from it except to try to avoid getting inside.

BURNETT: So, Seth, I mentioned the final message from the Army Secretary Dan Driscoll today, right, in which he wrote, "I had the privilege of working with them to modernize and accelerate how the Army mans, trains, and equips the most lethal fighting force on the face of the Earth."

And as I mentioned, and it's important, Seth, obviously, I know from all of your work to note, he isn't the only one who's been trying to modernize the force that has left or been fired because of Hegseth. Others who had been trying to do that as well are also gone. And you have seen firsthand the toll that this is taking on the U.S. military.

SETH JONES, PRESIDENT, DEFENSE & SECURITY DEPARTMENT, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Yeah, Erin, I mean, at the end of the day, our army and all of our services have to be combat effective. The speed with which warfare is changing so dramatically in Ukraine, the use of drones and not just drones, but A.I.-enabled drones, electronic warfare.

You know, there's a really interesting exercise earlier this year where Ukraine's unmanned systems force went up against a U.S. Army armored brigade combat team and tore them apart. In fact, Ukrainians I talked to that were part of that force said they hadn't seen such rich target sets since the beginning of the -- of the war in Ukraine back in February of 2022.

BURNETT: Wow.

JONES: I mean, the Army, the Marine Corps, I think we have not fully adjusted to how to do cover, concealment and how to fight in this new environment.

[19:10:06]

That is what I think Secretary Driscoll was talking about. And the U.S. I think is actually behind with the firing of some of its key leaders along those lines.

I mean, Max, the loss of Driscoll is obviously important in terms of what Seth's talking about, this modernization. That anecdote that Seth just told is very unsettling, by the way. But you also, Max, know that Driscoll was playing a really important role when it came to Russia and Ukraine.

MAX SEDDON, MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF, FINANCIAL TIMES: Yes, sir. So, Driscoll was involved in some of the only talks on Russia and Ukraine that have really gone anywhere under the Trump administration, which involved the two militaries and intelligence sides of Russia and Ukraine, where actually quite a lot of progress was reached on sketching out how a ceasefire would look, and he wasn't the only one involved in that. He's one of many officials who had a role, and Trump and Putin haven't been able to really work it out.

But it's a professional approach that Russia and Ukraine alike really feel has otherwise been lacking from the main figures involved on the American side, namely Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, the main peace envoys on this. And that is something that they think that there needs to be more if there's going to be any kind of progress on a ceasefire.

BURNETT: Just an important layer to talk about when you think about the loss of someone like Driscoll.

And, Max, you also have new reporting tonight on what Russia is doing specifically to help Iran. I mean, this is -- this is really significant. We haven't independently confirmed it here at CNN. You're reporting that Russia is secretly helping Iran develop supersonic cruise missiles. right? Now, this is a country who, according to Trump, right, their military was obliterated and decimated and is gone. But now you're talking about that they're being given technology to develop supersonic cruise missiles.

Tell me about this.

SEDDON: Yeah, so we reported that for the last three years Russia has been sending delegations of scientists to Iran and exchanging scientific information with Iran in great detail on what would essentially we talked about Tomahawks and how the U.S. Tomahawks were depleted. This would essentially help Iran have their own Tomahawks.

These would be much more advanced cruise missiles than anything that Iran has. It's something they've wanted to have for decades, and it's because they'd be much more effective at evading the advanced air defenses used by the U.S. and the Middle East and its allies, Israel, the Gulf states, because it's much more difficult to detect and shoot down.

And Iran hasn't deployed these missiles yet. The indication is they're still developing and testing them, but it's something that could potentially be extremely damaging to the U.S. if Iran was able to use them, particularly against the United States Navy.

BURNETT: General Hodges, how significant is this reporting that Max has?

HODGES: Well, I read Max's reporting is excellent as usual. It's unbelievable to me that we are not doing anything about Russia providing capabilities to Iran that will be used to kill American soldiers and sailors. Instead, we invite the Russian finance minister to Asheville, North Carolina. The president refuses to blame President Putin for anything. He's about the only leader in the world he has not criticized.

So I think there's a real problem here. Why is it that it seems that the administration trusts Russia more than we trust our own intelligence, and now you've got Iran potentially receiving capability that would be used to kill Americans?

BURNETT: This is really stunning, and I guess perhaps the most basic and one of the most fundamental questions that we're looking for history to answer there.

Seth, you also have some new information tonight reporting on Iran's capabilities. As, right, I mentioned Trump said that their military is decimated and obliterated, and yet here we are in an ongoing war. In terms of what their capabilities are, what they've been able to rebuild, what are you learning?

JONES: Well, Erin, the reality right now is with the war at a kind of a low boil What we're seeing with satellite imagery, for example, and a range of other sources is that Iran is rebuilding its -- and increasingly rebuilding its defense industrial base, a range of its ballistic missiles and its cruise missiles, including with Russian, I would add, Chinese help, including on the components part, as well as in addition to ballistic cruise missiles as well.

So, lots of rebuilding. And then finally, then this is probably deeply concerning. We're seeing a lot of activity under Pickaxe Mountain right now, which indicates the Iranians are likely continuing on their nuclear program right now.

[19:15:01]

So, on the conventional forces plus nuclear capabilities, this low- boil war without a lot of strikes means that the Iranians are using it in many ways to their advantage.

BURNETT: Thank you all very much for that conversation.

And next, Trump's wild goose chase. Hundreds of Homeland Security agents are right now trying to hunt down Trump's baseless claims of voter fraud by securing or scouring voter data from all 50 states. So, the governor of New Jersey is next to respond.

Plus, the man behind one of the most accurate election forecast sites in the country tonight, new numbers on the midterms. Is there a path for Democrats to retake the Senate?

And a popular statue has just become the latest casualty in Trump's efforts to make over the Kennedy Center.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:13]

BURNETT: Breaking news. Hundreds of Homeland Security agents are now assigned to Trump's hunt for election fraud, according to brand-new reporting tonight from "The New York Times". The agents are scouring voter rolls for non-citizens, despite a lack of evidence of any major fraud, any widespread fraud at all.

Documents also show agents are using personal information about voters, including partial Social Security numbers in their search. These agents have reportedly been pulled from normal duties. And their normal duties are very important ones, investigating human trafficking and terrorism. They have been reassigned to focus on this.

OUTFRONT now, the Democratic governor of New Jersey, Mikie Sherrill. She is also a former federal prosecutor and U.S. Navy helicopter pilot.

Governor, I appreciate your time.

So, I just emphasize here that you've got agents that usually investigate human trafficking and terrorism are now being scouring for voter fraud. What do you think about that, of this effort by Trump to use those agents for this purpose?

GOV. MIKIE SHERRILL (D), NEW JERSEY: As we see Trump's numbers increasingly go down, his policies become more and more unpopular, costs going up for everyone as the president enriches himself through his corrupt enterprises, we see him grow more and more desperate to steal the election. And your reporting talks about these investigations going on as you're pulling agents from other important jobs. We've heard stories of DOJ people going into polling places in Wyoming. We've heard these baseless claims. I myself have asked for evidence of

the reporting of the baseless claims. We've never been presented with anything. We have been asked to produce our voter rolls to the administration.

I refused because, again, this is just an attempt for the president to steal an election that he knows he can't win.

BURNETT: So let me ask you about this in the context of the entire investigation that's going on, but also what you just said there, Governor, about that they've requested the voter rolls and you've declined to provide them.

You made headlines recently when you got ahead of a story, you came out and announced it, right? So, this was transparency. You said that 6,600 non-citizens in New Jersey had been improperly registered to vote by the DMV. This was before you were elected.

It turns out more than 300 of them actually voted. And, you know, you came out and put all this out there. Are you worried that an error like that gives Trump, though, the opening to make the voter fraud claims, to say, hey, New Jersey, give us your voter rolls since you showed us that problem, what if there's more?

SHERRILL: I think what the people of New Jersey want to see is a transparent, accountable government so they understand what's going on and how it's going to be fixed and rectified. That is what I'm presenting to people. and keeping them informed.

And Trump is doing the exact opposite, making spurious claims, presenting no evidence, constantly hiding the ball from people. And he knows it's not working, which is why you see these desperate attempts to in any way possible steal the outcome of the election, because I think many of the candidates in the GOP are desperate to figure out a pathway away from him. They haven't yet.

And you also see this attempt to really target people move the story away from his failures. Well, it's not working here in New Jersey. We're fighting hard. We're going to run a safe and fair election, and we're going to make sure that people continue to get evidence they can trust, which I think will be more important than ever as he continues to try to shut down all mail voting across the country.

BURNETT: Right, which, of course, that is the big development overnight as well. Now, the U.S. Mint today started selling this $1 coin, Governor Sherrill. It features President Trump. They say it's a 250th birthday of America celebration.

And it comes days after Trump was called out for posting an image on social media where he listed himself as the greatest president. I had to check this one to make sure it was actually real, and it had come from his account and wasn't some sort of a spoof. But it was real.

So he put himself as the greatest, his own category. And then below him he had Lincoln and Washington and FDR. They were only great, and then there were others. So he continued to rank them. Governor, you're a veteran. You served this country. What do you think

when you see something like this yourself?

SHERRILL: The president continues to make a mockery of his office and of the trust that is placed in him. We see an affordability crisis going on across the country, certainly here in New Jersey. And every step forward I take here in New Jersey to drive down costs, to drive down utility costs, grocery costs, take on the algorithm, stick on rental algorithms, drive down rental prices, build housing so we can drive down housing -- every step forward we take here, we see Washington take three steps back under this president.

[19:20:09]

I mean, the tariff fight with Canada, that's our number one -- number one trade partner here in New Jersey, like many states. We see the war he got into with Iran, you know, costs going up everywhere. You heard your guest. Talking about now, we're seeing the worst of all worlds, Russia and Iran and China lining up, Trump trying to line up with them and denying our allies and our previous alliances. I mean, he's making us less safe. You have your costs going up everywhere at the pump with the tariffs at the grocery store.

And again and again and again, you see one thing tying all of this together, one thing continuing to happen, and that is Trump making more and more and more money off the suffering of this nation.

BURNETT: You know, we have talked about how if the headlines coming out of the U.S. military were headlines coming out of, say, the military, Putin's military, it would be a major story about what's really going on. And it would be a bad story, to say the very least, for Putin and for Russia. And yet this is a story about America, right? And now it's Driscoll leaving.

As I said, you're a veteran. You've endorsed 13 fellow veterans in midterm races. And you said specifically, Governor, when we send veterans to Congress, we are sending in dedicated public servants trained to run toward the fight and unafraid to take on the status quo.

Do you feel the same way about the White House?

SHERRILL: I think that we have a president who despises military service. He had his made-up bone spurs that his dad's Dr. wrote a note for him so he could get out of service. He thinks people who serve are suckers and losers. And certainly, I think you see that reflected in Pete Hegseth, the person he put in charge of our military, someone completely unqualified, credible allegations of sexual assault and harassment, failed at every job he'd had.

This is what he thinks of our military, putting this person in charge of it, who has not only failed at every previous job that he's taken, but now is failing at a really key role that's impacting the safety and security of Americans, it's impacting people who serve. You see about -- he's cleared about 10 percent of the flag rank, admirals and generals. He's removed them, fired them. And that is just one small portion. I think what maybe people don't

always realize is you can't hire an admiral off the street. You grow leadership in the Navy from the time people join, to get to a point where you have the kind of technical and complicated experience to be an admiral, flag officer.

This is going to be a problem not just now, but even when we finally do get that man fired or Trump is fired, we'll still have to deal with the reverberations of it for years to come.

BURNETT: Governor Sherrill, I appreciate your time, and thank you very much. And we have some breaking news now. One of the nation's top election forecasters has a new analysis tonight about the midterms. So, this is actually a really fascinating shift about control of the Senate. Larry Sabato next. You'll want to see that.

Plus, also coming up, breaking news just coming in from Minneapolis. We have learned that at least one person is dead. Multiple people are injured, including police officers, after a shooting there. We're going to go live to the ground. Details are just coming in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:32:42]

BURNETT: We're following breaking news out of Minneapolis right now where officials are reporting at least one person is dead with multiple others injured, including two police officers after a shooting.

Julia Vargas Jones is following the breaking news. We're just getting more details here. We've got live images up.

Julia, what are you learning?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're seeing the massive presence of police on the scene, Erin. We also have learned that the FBI, Kash Patel, Director of -- Kash Patel, has said that they are aware of this and working with local law enforcement and sending any and all resources as necessary.

Mayor Jacob Frey. of Minneapolis has just put out a statement as well, explaining that approximately 4:36 p.m., that's when Minneapolis Police Department responded to an active shooting incident near that very intersection that you're seeing there. That's 15 Grant Street.

Multiple injuries have been confirmed, including two of those Minneapolis police officers. Still very much an active scene at this point, Erin. But as we're learning more, we heard from the Hennepin County Health Center that those six victims have been received there with multiple injuries, one of them deceased.

And now unclear the state of the other victims have been received, including those two police officers. As we continue to learn more information coming from the scene, we also learned from the university and nearby university. This is an area near the Convention Center of Minneapolis. The

university had been on a lockdown University of Saint Thomas in that vicinity. There's also hotels, multiple. and different businesses in that area.

At this time, Erin, as we're learning more about these victims and the state of this police officer. It's important to note that this is a scene that has been responded -- the police has been in the scene for a while and this is a calm scene, although it is an active investigation, does not seem to be as active as it was a short period ago.

BURNETT: All right. Julia, thank you very much.

As Julia said we know very little about how those individuals are doing who have been brought to the medical center. So, we're going to be -- we'll break in here as we get more information on that developing story out of Minneapolis.

At this moment, President Trump is hosting a dinner with battleground state Republicans. Those are Republicans who are trying to get reelected. Trump has promised to campaign for some of the most embattled Republican Senate candidates.

Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will be with you 100 percent all the way to November. So, I'm going to go to Alaska, and I won it by a lot, by a real lot. And I'm going to, you know, hopefully get Dan, and we're going to go to Texas and work for Ken Paxton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Well, it comes as my next guest, one of the nation's top political forecasters, has a new analysis on which party could control the Senate. He's projecting that Democrats will grab 47 seats, Republicans 48. Okay. Well, then you say, well, what then? Well, that's what you're looking at on your screen. That leaves five crucial races as toss-ups. That includes Alaska and Texas. where Trump is going. Now as to whether his presence is helpful or hurtful, that's a conversation.

But Larry Sabato is OUTFRONT now, creator of Sabato's Crystal Ball, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.

Larry, I always enjoy talking to you. So, you know, there'd always been this -- and, you know, who knows what's going to happen on Election Day? But prognosticators have said for quite a while that Democrats are likely to take the House, and the Senate didn't look quite so close.

But now, you're looking at things shifting. What do you see happening?

LARRY SABATO, FOUNDER & DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Yeah, at the beginning of the cycle, I didn't know anybody who thought that the Democrats would be able to find four additional seats. You need four because the vice president can break a 50-50 Senate.

But things have changed and they've been moving pretty steadily in the Democratic direction, not by leaps and bounds. These things don't work that way, although it can happen. You can have the wall break shortly before the actual election, and maybe that will happen. Republicans insist that it won't.

But essentially, we see Democrats winning enough seats to get to 5050. And that is not counting places that might go in their direction, such as Maine. We don't count Maine because the whole community and forecasting has been burned so often by Susan Collins winning when polls said she couldn't.

Or Texas, where the exact same thing is even more true. We've had, you know, once burned, twice shy. Well, this has been like 20 times burned and 30 times shy because Democrats always predict they're going to win it. Sometimes it looks like they're going to win, but they never do.

But this one could be different. We'd still give a slight edge to Ken Paxton, but you can see James Talarico overcoming him by November. And the Maine -- that could also go to Democrats by the end. I don't think it's there yet. The polls have it tied and Susan Collins has won even when she has been well behind in every major poll.

BURNETT: Yeah.

SABATO: So, you have to take all these things into account.

BURNETT: You know, one interesting thing is that we talk about tariffs, right? The Canadian tariffs. It's interesting. I don't know if you heard the governor of New Jersey, but a moment ago she was saying that Canada is the largest trading partner for New Jersey, which was interesting. I actually was not aware of that.

But it brought to light this, which is that the trade war with Canada is dramatically impacting certain states more than others.

I mean, here's what Trump said today about Canada.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Canada has taken advantage of us. They have ripped us off for years, and now we're turning the tables, very easily turning the tables.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, four of your toss-up states, Michigan, Maine, Ohio, and Alaska, all have crucial economic ties with Canada that can kind of make or break it, that are having people, Americans in those states feel this trade war more acutely than Americans in other states. How much does that matter?

SABATO: It matters a lot. Just talk to the Republican candidates for Senate or their staffs off the record, and they'll tell you how unhappy they are that this has developed right on the edge of the general election. Of course, it can make a difference in Michigan or Maine if they're extremely close, and Alaska is extremely close. We even have it leaning a little bit to the Democrats. Who would have thought?

So, of course, it makes a difference. And there are actually seven states with Senate contests, some of them closer than others, but all of them reasonably close on the Canadian border. I don't think they're real happy with what's developed.

BURNETT: Larry, thank you very much. I appreciate your time, as always.

And next, MapQuest with a message for Trump. Quote, "We're not changing Lake Ontario." That defiance has the app seeing a surge of downloads. MapQuest's top exec is next.

And new details tonight about an investigation into those two passenger jets, which flew barely 50 feet, not even 50 feet, above a stadium full of 56,000 people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:44:03]

BURNETT: Tonight, Trump is defending his decision to rename Lake Ontario Lake America, as a new poll shows 14 percent of Americans support the change. Trump tonight praised Apple for updating its map, calling the name change, quote, "complete, ratified, and binding."

There is one company, though, that is not going along, MapQuest, which has surged to the top of Apple's app charts with over one million downloads since putting up this post defying Trump's order, saying, quote, "We're not changing it, and even creating a tool where people can rename the lake whatever they want."

Now, Apple Maps and Google Maps have complied with Trump.

OUTFRONT now, Doug Berger, he is the top executive at MapQuest.

And I appreciate your time, Doug.

So, you know, I'll note to everybody, you took a similar stance when Trump renamed the Gulf of Mexico. But it's only now that you're seeing this massive surge, right? If I'm right, and you can update my numbers for me here, downloads are up more than 6,000 percent according to app figures, which tracks analytics.

I mean, were you surprised when you saw this take off this time?

[19:45:05]

DOUG BERGER, GENERAL MANAGER, MAPQUEST: We were absolutely blown away by the response. The updated figure is over 1.5 million downloads and installs so far. So, it's completely shocking. And yeah, what a ride so far.

BURNETT: So now, you know, people say, OK, people are mad. People don't like this. So they downloaded your app. That's one thing. Actually, using it and no longer using, say, Google Maps or Apple Maps is a totally different thing.

Are you seeing signs people are actually using it, not just downloading it?

BERGER: Absolutely. Usage is through the roof. Don't have any numbers to share there, but people are posting screenshots on social media. They're actively contributing to the conversation, telling us what features they want us to build. And our team is extremely hard at work bringing those features to life.

BURNETT: So now, when people saw this, there were some who said, Wait, MapQuest? They weren't sure that it was still there, okay? And you fully embraced that entire conversation.

So, when Eric Trump posts, quote, "Shocking to see you're still alive," what is your response to that?

BERGER: First of all, it's hilarious, and it's also true. MapQuest is 30 years old. This is actually the 30th birthday or anniversary of MapQuest. And so, everybody has fond memories of printing out directions back in the day. And so, you know, it's true.

BURNETT: But you're still around. You're still there. You're alive.

OK, and we'll see what --

BERGER: We're still around --

(CROSSTALK)

BERGER: I was saying, we've been there all along and excited to reintroduce the brand to people.

BURNETT: Yeah, I mean, 1.5 million. We'll see where those numbers go.

Now, I'm just laughing because your name's Doug Berger. The interior secretary is Doug Burgum. And he's been at the front and center of this because he was talking about how excited he was to rename the lake.

And he said that the president himself personally reached out to Apple asking the company to change the name of Lake Ontario to Lake America. Here is Secretary Burgum.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG BURGUM, INTERIOR SECRETARY: I know that the president reached out to Apple directly, so I'm sure that we may be seeing that change coming up soon to Lake America.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: And a day later, he was proven right, Lake America. So, I'm just curious, Doug, if the president were to call you, what would you say?

BERGER: You know, we're fully committed to our users right now, and the -- you know, users are kind of showing what they believe in with, by downloading our app. It is -- it's not -- it was not intended to be a political stance. It was intended to be, you know, give people the name of lakes and gulfs that they're familiar with. And it's just -- it's fun that we're talking about geography.

BURNETT: Yeah, well, you know what? There is a -- there is a silver lining glass half full that I haven't heard in this whole conversation. So, I will take it at that. I appreciate that. I'm sure many of our viewers do as well. And thank you, Doug, for your time tonight.

BERGER: I appreciate you having me.

BURNETT: All right. And also, this hour, new details on that dangerously close flyover at a stadium that was full of 56,000 people. South Africa's aviation authority is now investigating the incident, collecting the black boxes from the two airline jets involved.

Now, the planes flew, okay, 46 feet above the venue in Cape Town, 46 feet. There were 56,000 people packed inside. I mean, we could just for one moment shut your eyes and imagine what could have happened.

The airline behind the stunt has now canceled another flyover that was scheduled for just a couple days from now amid the investigation.

Mary Schiavo joins me now, the former inspector general at the Department of Transportation.

So, Mary, I appreciate your time.

Now, we're learning that South Africa's Aviation Authority approved the flyovers, and the airline is saying the black boxes will show everything was done in accordance with governmental rules. So, I guess what -- it sounds like what they're saying is that flying 46 feet over 56,000 people is acceptable. I can't really imagine that that's the case, but that's what it sounds like they're saying.

How do you think this happened?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, they applied and they had several applications. For the one they canceled, they had an application in also, and they had to apply to the Civil Aviation Authority, the government, because the law requires you to be 1,000 feet above a populated area above a stadium.

[19:50:02]

And so, they applied and then were given permission. If they weren't given permission, I expect when they landed, they would have been arrested. So, it's going to come down to, you know, who is more accurate? Do

they really get a permit? And this would have been just 50 feet over the stadium. stadium or you know maybe 100?

I mean, this variance is so small, any weather, any wind, anything could have you know thrown you off those 46 feet. It's just not enough. But if in fact they were approved to fly that low, then -- then they will -- you know, they won't suffer any consequences.

BURNETT: Which is, I guess, can make anybody think about air safety in South Africa. But, Mary, just to take a moment on this, 46 feet above a stadium where there are 56,000 people inside, right, 56,000 people. You know, that's like flying above, you know, Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, which is the largest capacity ballpark in Major League Baseball.

What goes through your head when you think about something like that, if something had gone wrong?

SCHIAVO: Yeah, there's not a margin of safety here, just not at all. But what happens in aviation safety is if you get -- if you do it once and you get away with it and it works and you don't have a disaster, you tend to stretch the safety rubber band or, you know, the envelope of safety.

And here, we learned this airline had done it before. They intended to do it again. Others had done it. It's a thing. I mean, they want these low, dangerous flyovers and it's been the summer of low, dangerous flyovers.

There was one in South Carolina, literally right outside my house, one in Pensacola. And this seems to be, you know, a national point of pride. They were actually bragging that they could do this and their pilots were that good.

I agree. That's pretty good flying, but not safe flying.

That's what goes through my mind is it's nice to look at, but they don't consider the dangers, and the dangers were certainly there.

BURNETT: Yeah, well, the scale of the loss of human life that we could be talking about is really impossible to imagine.

Mary Schiavo, thank you very much.

And next, Trump's mission to redo the Kennedy Center taking a new turn, a popular statue now gone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:57]

BURNETT: Tonight, a giant outdoor sculpture abruptly dismantled and hauled away from the Kennedy Center. It's the latest dramatic change amid Trump's takeover.

Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With little warning, cranes piece by piece dismantled and removed this 24- foot statue from the grounds of the Kennedy Center today. The abrupt action sparking outrage from activists, marking another dramatic change to the iconic arts institution made under President Trump as he works to reshape the center in his name and style.

TRUMP: There's really nothing like it in the country.

SERFATY (voice-over): The sculpture called Blue was first installed in 2019. The Kennedy Center says it was the center that requested the sculpture to come down, portraying a deinstallation as common practice, yet giving no public explanations as to why it came down now.

But those who worked at the center say the piece of art was targeted early on, after Trump took over the center as chairman of the board.

JOSEF PALERMO, FORMER KENNEDY CENTER CURATOR: As part of the renovations, they want to get rid of the outdoor art here on the campus at the Kennedy Center. And the reason why is because President Trump wants all-new art for the reopening of the center.

SERFATY (voice-over): A source familiar with the matter disputed Palermo's account of the situation. Activists pointing a finger at political motivations, saying that removal came, quote, "at the behest of a petulant crybaby".

The Kennedy Center has been largely dormant, its productions and shows falling silent as the future of the arts institution remains in limbo, bogged down in a legal and cultural battle.

TRUMP: We ended the woke political programming and we're restoring the Kennedy Center as the premier venue for performing arts anywhere in the country.

SERFATY (voice-over): Last month, lawyers for the center threatened to demolish the building if they were not allowed to close for a two- year renovation.

TRUMP: In the coming months, we'll fully renovate the dated and -- really the entire the infrastructure of the building.

SERFATY (voice-over): A federal judge has blocked renovation plans, ruling they were made unlawfully, which the Center and White House officials have continued to fight.

HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: There are chunks of concrete falling off the ceiling in the garage. When it fell off last time at four o'clock in the morning, okay, you clean it up in the morning. But if it fell on somebody, that would be an unmitigated disaster.

SERFATY (voice-over): Meantime, in a dramatic provocation, the Kennedy Center board voted last month to re-add Trump's name to the facade, this time with an etching saying the president restored and renovated the building.

CROWD: Take it down! Please. Take it down!

SERFATY (voice-over): After it was instructed to be removed in June and has been covered by a tarp ever since.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY: And I'm standing right here on the grass where the sculpture once was only a few hours today. Crews arrived here and took multiple hours to go piece by piece, beam by beam, removing parts of this aluminum sculpture. You can see here this hole in the ground here where the sculpture once was.

In fact, you have the plate -- the plaque here the artist, Joel Shapiro, who made this piece of art. He died just only last year. And you'll see we're just steps away from the shadow of the main Kennedy Center building here.

And Kennedy Center officials, Erin, offering no explanation as to why this art was removed now other than routine deinstallation -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Sunlen, thank you very much.

And thanks to all of you for being with us.

"AC360" begins now.