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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Tries To Boost Kansas Senator While Insisting "Polls Are Fake"; Trump Snubs Zelenskyy; Massive Tax Break? Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 19, 2026 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:21]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
The breaking news, President Trump trying to head off a midterm disaster in Kansas, now hosting a rally for the state senator who's bleeding support. The state's former Republican governor, one of those now backing the Democrat, is OUTFRONT.
And courting Putin. Trump defending Russia and taking shots at Zelenskyy. I'll speak to a Republican senator who just got off the phone with Zelenskyy. He'll tell us what he said.
And nearly half a billion dollars. According to Forbes, that's how much Trump may potentially be saving by taking advantage of a little- known tax break.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
(MUSIC)
BURNETT: And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Trump's red state rescue. The president tonight defending Kansas. His ally, Republican Senator Roger Marshall, is in danger of losing in a state where Republicans have held both Senate seats for nearly a century. And now Trump has to spend the precious last days of the campaign in a state that few would ever have imagined would be in play.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Is it a bad sign for Republicans that you have to go campaign in Kansas today?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a close race. It shouldn't be. And as you know, I won by a tremendous amount, like 25, 30 points. I won by a lot, Kansas. And they should be winning by a lot.
I think he's tied or up by a little bit, according to polls. Look, the polls are fake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: All right, Trump did win Kansas by a lot. And it shouldn't have to be a thing.
But if the polls are fake, if Trump really thought they were fake, obviously, he wouldn't bother going to Kansas, right? Because he wouldn't have to worry about it. There would be other more important places to be, swing states, for example. So, you know, his actions speak a lot louder than his words.
He also wasted no opportunity casting doubt on the integrity of America's upcoming election. And I mean, as I said, right, this is not where Republicans spend their time campaigning. They don't need to go to Kansas.
It is also not a place where they would pour millions of dollars in ads to try to prop up a Republican candidate. It simply would not be necessary.
Well, as Trump referenced that poll, a recent "New York Times" poll did find Marshall in a dead heat with his Democratic opponent, Pastor Adam Hamilton, 45-45. Now, Marshall won his last election by more than 11 percentage points.
So obviously, this is a flashing red sign for Republicans, and whatever the polls are or aren't, Trump sure believes them. Marshall raised just $800,000 between July and September. His Democratic challenger, Adam Hamilton, got $9 million in just the same time frame. That is a stunning differential.
And Kansas is far from the only red state where Trump has traveled to recently. With the exception of New York, Trump won all of the other states that he has campaigned in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: North Carolina's special place.
Hello to Oklahoma.
We love Alabama.
I love Nebraska.
Hello to the great state of Texas.
Very special hello to Tennessee.
I like Ohio.
Hello, Montana.
A very special hello to Arizona.
Thank you, Alaska.
Hello, Georgia.
A very special hello to Kentucky. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Pretty much none of those states would be states that he would be spending time in if this weren't the sort of election that it looks like it might be. Later this week, he's going to go to North Carolina, South Carolina, Iowa, and Florida, all also on that list.
And early voting, by the way, is underway in many of those states. In fact, more than nine million people have already voted. And it was just last month that Trump said he would travel to the biggest swing states, that that's where he would spend his time. But he's really only been to, well, less than a third of them, and he's ramping up his red state tour.
And as part of all of this, there's been this strange talking point that's emerged. If you watch Trump and how he conducts himself, which actually is really important, and sometimes because people have become so inured and immune to the things that he says and does, we forget to mention it. So, it is worth mentioning this, what he talks about in terms of candidates and how they look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I actually think Mike Collins is a good-looking man. And he's all man.
These are handsome, beautiful -- these are, like, central casting guys.
I looked at his ass and I looked at the hole. And then I looked at his hands. Look at that jawline. I'm telling you.
He's a handsome guy. Look at this beautiful guy.
Great guy. Young, handsome guy.
He's a handsome guy. You're a handsome guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Betsy Klein is OUTFRONT live in Park City, Kansas, where the president is speaking tonight. After, by the way, he posted that New Mexico should lose its name, there's that going on as well. Just to remind people that what he's doing.
Betsy, how worried is Trump and his team that this seat in Kansas is really at risk going Democrat?
[19:05:06]
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Erin, it's really remarkable that Kansas has emerged as one of the most competitive battleground races in this midterm election. Democrats are hoping that they can make a Senate victory for the first time here since 1932.
So, President Trump has arrived on site. He is expected to stump for Senator Roger Marshall, the Republican who is in a much tighter than expected race against the Democrat Adam Hamilton, that megachurch pastor.
The president has framed Hamilton as radical left. Hamilton, meanwhile, we are seeing in the polls that are just neck and neck has been able to peel off some registered Republican voters. And the president's appearance here just 15 days away from that midterm election really underscores how Republicans are on the defense in these reliably red places. And we are seeing Republican aligned groups for millions of dollars into bolstering Marshall's candidacy.
The strategy here and for all of President Trump's midterm travel this week is to bolster turnout among his MAGA base. They're not necessarily looking to find new voters or persuade undecided voters. They're looking to turn out the voters that they have.
And I've talked to a number of undecided voters in the Wichita area, including some actually here at this rally who haven't decided who they are going to vote for.
And economic discontent is the main issue. The high price of diesel, the high price of gas, the president's tariff policies, all a major issue of concern. I spoke with one Republican who's on the ballot and he is increasingly worried that these policies are going to impact Republicans up and down that ballot. Republicans, he says, are disillusioned. Democrats, meanwhile, he says, are motivated. And there's some data to back that up from the Secretary of State's office indicating that Democratic voter registration is significantly up, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Betsy, at that rally in Kansas.
And I want to go OUTFRONT now to the former Republican governor of the state, Bill Graves, former governor of Kansas. As I said, he's supporting Adam Hamilton, the Democrat who is running against Senator Roger Marshall.
Governor, I appreciate your time. It's great to see you again.
So, we're 15 days from the actual midterms, although, as I said, early voting starting in so many places. But what does it say to you that President Trump is in your state? He is in Kansas tonight with two weeks to go.
BILL GRAVES (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF KANSAS: Well, it -- first of all it says what a incredibly poor job Roger Marshall has done as an incumbent United States senator. In fact, I'm -- I have yet to understand what platform he is running for reelection on. I mean, as you just outlined, gas prices, grocery prices, the cost of everything is just sky high. The tariff wars have hurt the agricultural sector significantly.
I mean, ironic that they're in Wichita, where Trump has taken potshots at one of the leading employers in that city, Bombardier, which essentially is Learjet, been a fixture in Wichita since the late 1950s. So, I mean, the fact that this is happening is a testament to how poorly Republicans have performed, Roger and others and the president in Washington.
BURNETT: So, Adam Hamilton told and -- obviously, he's who you're supporting in the Senate race. He's the Democrat pastor running in Kansas. Just told Jake Tapper that he's happy to see Trump in Kansas. Here's his logic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM HAMILTON (D), KANSAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I took it as a big compliment. I took it as a statement that the Republican Party felt they needed to send the most powerful man in the country to try to save Roger Marshall. And I think it's only going to hurt him. So, I'm glad he's here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So do you agree with him? And I guess the context around that governor that I'd like to put is Betsy Klein's reporting that she's at a Trump rally where she said she spoke to people who described themselves as undecided and that while they said the economy was our top issue, they're undecided, but they're there at a Trump rally. Obviously, they're still open to Trump and Marshall.
GRAVES: Well, I mean, going to a Trump rally is kind of like going to the freak show at the carnival. I mean, what's he going to say? What's he going to do? It's always very entertaining, but whether or not it translates into increased voter turnout on behalf of Roger Marshall is, in my opinion, yet to be seen and hard to be believed.
I mean, this is -- this is just another indication of, I think, Trump's infatuation with his own self loving to get in front of audiences. They're obviously, you know, the MAGA crowd that's going to adore him, which he gravitates towards, but whether it has any real. political benefit. In fact, if anything, as Adam Hamilton has said, this may end up energizing his supporters even more.
BURNETT: Well, Trump, of course, you know, he comes to Kansas and he talks about Marshall in glowing terms, right? Before he left, he's just, I believe, taking the stage now, but just before he left, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:02]
TRUMP: Going to take a nice trip to Kansas, where we have a wonderful Senator Marshall. He's going to do very well, I think. He's going to win.
Roger Marshall is one of the finest people in government, as far as I'm concerned.
I want to make sure Roger Marshall gets in. Roger Marshall is a great man, and he's a great senator. So that's why I'm going. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Just, you know, it's interesting what he had said before about how much he won Kansas by. It was not accurate. But he did win it by a lot, not by as much as he said. But he did win it by 16 points two years ago. You know, do you ever take pause, Governor, and say that maybe that is impossible to overcome, that maybe these polls are not accurate when we look at this dead heat.
GRAVES: Well, I think many of us have said that electing a Democrat to the United States Senate in Kansas is probably not probable.
But in this instance, it is possible. We have the right candidate. He has the right message. He's running against an incumbent who is, you know, has nothing to run on. I mean, just saying we ought to reelect Roger Marshall because he's a nice guy. The president thinks he's a nice guy because he says "yes" every time the president asked him to do something.
As I've said before, part of my problem as a former executive branch official is I actually respect the legislative branch and the role they're supposed to play in the checks and balances. And the president loves Roger Marshall because he's abdicated any responsibility to be a check on President Trump.
BURNETT: All right. Governor Graves, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
As I said, Governor Graves as a former Republican governor of Kansas who's endorsed the Democratic candidate in the -- what polls say is a dead heat Senate race there.
Jamal Simmons and Gretchen Carson are OUTFRONT now.
So, Gretchen, it's Adam Hamilton of Kansas isn't the only Democrat who could do what people thought was impossible and wasn't even on the table. Frankly, prior to the war itself, probably.
James Talarico -- by the way, not lost on me that Adam Hamilton is a pastor and James Talarico has gone to seminary school and wants to become a full pastor. And perhaps there's something in that resonating at this moment.
But you don't think it's a coincidence that these states that this is happening?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: Well, because I've been honing in on the idea that if I were to give advice to Democrats over the last couple of months, it would be to recapture religion as an important thing. The Republican Party has hijacked that messaging. And especially when you have somebody as flawed as President Trump with regard to morality, and you have two flawed Republican candidates with regard to other problems that they have besides the economy and tariffs in Marshall and Paxton, then you have Democrats who are running as pastors. Now, there's a certain amount of trust, I think, that comes sometimes
with pastors, sometimes not. But I think Americans are clamoring right now to go back to morality, to go back to people that they can believe in and trust, people that they would introduce and feel confident telling their children to know. And so, I think there may be this common thread there, especially for independents who are leaving in droves against Trump right now --
BURNETT: Interesting.
CARLSON: -- and Republicans who might have been behind Cornyn, for example, in Texas.
BURNETT: The decency, it's interesting that sometimes you want your children, if there's something to that, because I think people have been saying that years.
CARLSON: Yes.
BURNETT: And maybe they can grasp on to that. Jamal, there are other warning signs, though, for Trump. The most recent Fox News poll, right, and I know this is worth just to continue pounding the table on because it's really incredible, and it kind of snuck up on people, 88 percent of all voters say they're extremely concerned or very concerned about government corruption.
And Mick Mulvaney, who is Trump's former chief of office of management and budget and chief of staff, says, quote, "This is really, really bad news for the Republicans. I never thought I'd see the day when it's the leading issue on any poll, especially in a down economy. Stunning to me extraordinarily dangerous to the president."
So, Mick Mulvaney is saying the word is "is", okay? But, you know, is he right?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, corruption has been growing as an issue all year long because it's so conspicuous. The president isn't just, you know, talking about a million dollar contract for one of his kids. They're making billions of dollars while they're in the White House. Nobody's ever seen such a thing.
And to get back to Gretchen's point a second ago about the faith question, I have argued for years that Democrats needed to learn how to talk in mainstream society the way they talk on Sunday to African- American voters. Because when you see Democrats go into Black churches, they talk about their values, they talk about the things that make them want to run in the first place. They talk about things that are larger than just the current moment, but a little bit more vision.
And then on Monday morning, we turn into policy seminars, and everybody's talking about whatever policy question and Medicare Part D, reimbursement rates, and all of that. And the American people first want to know, what is it you believe, why do you believe that, and where do you want to go and who are you fighting for?
[19:15:00]
And the more Democrats talk about that, the more they connect with the American people in the heart and not just in the head.
BURNETT: The thing is, Gretchen, every day there's a new headline. And this has been true, by the way, for months. It's just that it finally seems to have percolated through, right? But whether it's the Kennedy Center or it's the ambassador to Greece or it's people that you didn't hadn't heard of before over helping Putin's goons get elected, right? It's day in and day out.
It's when you reach a point like that, is something like that even surmountable?
CARLSON: We'll, see, I think that the corruption idea is the economy mixed into it, and that's why that number is so high. So, it's really more than corruption. It's the economy because a lot of Trump's voters are in the lower income bracket, right? And for whatever reason, they thought he cared about them.
I've got news for them, he wouldn't want --
BURNETT: So, they see the enrichment --
CARLSON: So on top of them being poorer right now and fighting to fill up their gas tank. They're seeing Trump become more of a billionaire. And maybe they're starting to question, why did I think he cared about me?
I got news for them. He doesn't want to hang out with them. He never did. I mean, he always considered himself to be an elite here in New York City.
So maybe that's starting to roll over into their mindset and why you have undecided voters in Kansas going to a Trump rally.
BURNETT: Right, right. Now, Jamal.
SIMMONS: Kansas is kind of a weird state, right? Because you've had Democratic governors, they've traded back and forth. Back to -- think about Kathleen Sebelius.
BURNETT: That's right.
SIMMONS: We've had these governors and Democratic governor now. So, they go back and forth.
And what Republicans will even say is that you don't have to win that many Republicans in order to win as a Democrat. We just haven't seen it at the federal level with these Senate candidates.
BURNETT: So, the veteran Democratic strategist James Carville spoke out. I know you both saw this, but for anyone who didn't, I want to play it because he basically says, you know, kind of this question that people are talking about. If the polls aren't right and it comes down to a handful of seats, Democrats win, but only by, say, five. He thinks that is bad because then that puts Hakeem Jeffries, you
know, in shackles because to the DSA and that he won't be able to do what he wants to do. So, here's Carville's logic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I would be disappointed if it comes in at 225 House seats. And that would be -- that would almost be -- I would rather the Republicans keep the House by five than the Democrats win by five.
Because if that happens, they're hostage to the DSA. Hakim cannot move. There's no place for him to go. It's a nightmare at 225.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So we'd rather lose than have a plus five.
CARLSON: Now, see, I agree with some of his argument. I don't agree with that particular part of it.
I do agree that the DSA is problematic for the Democratic Party, especially when you're trying to woo independents and Republicans who are still kind of Republican, but they don't like Trump.
BURNETT: Yeah.
CARLSON: I think that's a huge problem. We've talked about that countless times on this show together. But I'm not so sure that Democrats would agree that it's still okay for Republicans to hold the House.
BURNETT: I'd be shocked. You're going to agree with Carville?
SIMMONS: I am not. I love James. I've known him since I first was able to drink legally.
(LAUGHTER)
BURNETT: Story there.
SIMMONS: But listen, I think the question here is. That kind of thinking about the DSA is something that is not where the mainstream Democratic Party is or where most of America is.
While there are lots of issues people may disagree with on the DSA, what they do want is somebody who's going to rip up the old playbook and do things differently. And if the question is a choice between someone who's just going to get there and be, Man, we're going to do a little of this, a little of that, or somebody who's going to really turn things over, I think the American public would rather have a turn-things-over candidate, and we've seen that.
Donald Trump has won a couple times, right? The American public is interested in doing something really different. They're hurting, and they want somebody to tend to it. BURNETT: All right, thank you both very much. We're here for the next 15 days.
And next, Trump selling out Ukraine, blaming Zelenskyy for not helping end the war in Ukraine. I'm going to speak to Republican Senator Thom Tillis. He just spoke to Zelenskyy on the phone.
Plus, the former Republican House speaker in Texas says Republicans are now freaking out about a blue wave in his state. Does he really think that's possible? Well, he's our guest.
And Trump fanning the flames as devastating riots break out across France. We'll take you tonight to Paris.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:23:35]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Zelensky says critical Patriot missiles Ukraine was expecting have been put on hold by the Trump administration. This is according to Congressman Don Bacon, who was in a call with Zelenskyy and other U.S. lawmakers today. It comes as Trump says he has opened a meeting with Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping about ending the Ukraine war. That meeting of the three of them would not include the fourth, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would do it, not so much for Ukraine, because Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine. They haven't been doing much. And the same thing with China. We would happen to talk about nuclear weapons.
REPORTER: Zelenskyy says you're on the wrong side of history on this one.
TRUMP: Zelenskyy said it?
REPORTER: Yes.
TRUMP: Zelenskyy doesn't know what he's talking about. Zelensky is a man that should have had this war settled a long time ago. I think it's time for somebody else to negotiate on behalf of Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I mean, just again to say the president said Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine. They haven't been doing much. I mean, other than, you know, attacking them with drones and missiles constantly with the largest civilian death toll since the war began in recent days.
Even today, Zelenskyy posted an image that sticks with you. It is hard to look at. A Ukrainian girl, a toddler in a stroller. She was killed today by Putin's missiles. You look at that.
[19:25:01]
Her face is blurred. She's dead. Her shoes are perfectly tied by her mother, who also died.
Zelenskyy says that that child was killed in a park in Kharkiv today. Her name was Angelina. And she was killed along with an 11-year-old child, her mother, and three others.
OUTFRONT now, Republican Senator Thom Tillis, who is author of the new book "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents".
And, Senator Tillis, I don't know if today you had a chance to see that image. It is unforgettable and painful and just the shoes. You had a call today with Zelenskyy.
There were other lawmakers on it. Congressman Bacon, I know, was one of them, and Zelensky posted a photo of that call. What did he say that you could share with us? I know he might have talked about the Patriot missiles.
Was there anything you could share with us about that or anything else?
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Well, he spoke about the recent attacks. He talked about the degradation of intelligence or at least early warning. He talked about the limiting elements to what had previously not been limits on how some of the Starlink or Starshield capabilities we're using.
I take Elon Musk at his word. He said he had nothing to do with it. So, we're trying to find out who in the administration did.
Sadly, we also saw some of those photographs.
And, Erin, I was in Kharkiv and in Kyiv about a month ago, and I saw the devastation. I saw what this murderer Vladimir Putin has ordered. I heard the stories about women being raped in front of their husbands and then their husbands assassinated.
I went to schools that are meeting in subways in Kharkiv because they can't meet above ground. I talked to victims who escaped from Crimea where they're basically brainwashing them into thinking that they're denazifying Ukraine. And it's interesting when you consider that they have a Jewish president.
Russians are lying. Putin is lying. Putin is playing President Trump like a fiddle. And history is not going to look good on an America that failed to rise up and defend the Western world if Putin actually gets his way.
And I believe that a summit with Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin, two countries who want to overwhelm the world, is absurd.
BURNETT: So when Trump says today, and I quote him again, Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine. They haven't been doing much. And the same thing with China. TILLIS: Haven't been doing much?
BURNETT: What do you even say to that?
TILLIS: Look, when I was in Kharkiv, when we left Kyiv and we went to Kharkiv, we were the first delegation to be allowed to travel that far out. And of course, the State Department had a warning to assume because we were able to track some of the Russian drones that were in the air and they were staying away from us.
The point was they were everywhere. They were dropping. They're dropping on.
We went in the ride to Kharkiv. We saw nothing but devastated civilian grocery stores, gas stations. We saw schools.
Look, he is a murderer and not doing it a lot. What does that mean? He only killed 20 or 30 people a day versus 1,000?
I mean, my God, one life is too many at the hands of Vladimir Putin and President Trump should know better.
BURNETT: Did he -- did he -- did Zelensky give any details on the Patriot missiles, which obviously are the front line of defense? I met one of the groups running the Patriot battery in Kyiv that they've run out of those, so that in addition to the Starlink that you're talking about, where they weren't getting the early warning, they also didn't have the ability to defend themselves. Has he been told those are? That's not happening?
TILLIS: If the information that we received today, and I'm in the middle of confirming it, one thing that I ask is I want to know how the service is degraded over time, either intelligence sharing or the capabilities of Starlink.
But he also -- President Zelensky also mentioned that a part of what they want are simply Patriot missiles that are coming from third-party countries that are prepared to provide it if we get an OK here.
I want to know who in the government is saying no to those transfers. This is not even taking it from our inventories. This is allowing it to be transferred from other European nations. Whoever that person is that's making that conscious decision, has the blood on their hands every bit as much as Vladimir Putin and the strikes that are occurring right now.
BURNETT: This is all happening in the context of the midterm elections, and Vice President Vance held a rally in your state today, North Carolina. He was campaigning with Michael Watley, who is running to fill your seat, of course.
Now, early voting shows 20 percent of ballots cast so far in your state are by registered Republicans. Now, that is down significantly from 2024 or 2022 at this point. So, it's early, but I'm just giving the reference kind of apples to apples. You have predicted an electoral bloodbath for Republicans. But you heard Trump earlier today say the, quote, "polls are fake".
Speaker Johnson said we're going to defy these, quote, unquote, "crazy polls".
[19:30:02]
Are they wrong or are you worried about the polls?
TILLIS: Well, I think some of us will be proven right and some will be proven wrong in 15 days and a few hours.
And quite honestly, Erin, I'm tracking the daily polls there. We are seeing an intensity from Democrats and unaffiliateds in the state that is at a very high level, and we're seeing a drop-off, not precipitous, but a drop-off of Republican levels as compared to 2022. If that trend continues, then I start worrying not only about Michael Whatley, who has an uphill climb, but congressional races that are on the bubble and legislative majorities that I played a hand in getting back in 2010.
And look, I don't believe if you think there's a problem there, you should do everything you can to call on people to help you fix it. But if you turn around and say there's nothing to see here, all the polls are fake, then how is that going to mobilize maybe Republicans who would otherwise vote if they think that things are in hand?
Look, we've got challenges here. It doesn't take a political scientist or an expert pollster to understand the trends. I want Republicans to win, but we better recognize the challenge that's ahead of us. And incidentally, it's a challenge that I forecast that in April of 2025, not this April, if we continue to take our eye off of the ball of the economy and getting immigration and the border right. And that's what we're seeing today,
BURNETT: Which is important when you point out when you made the prediction obviously was a year before the Iran War started.
You do write in your new book that if your prediction comes true, which is that Republicans will lose the House and potentially the Senate, you write then, quote, "Prepare for the kind of insanity that makes everything we're living through now look positively sunny by comparison. You think we've seen some major WTF moments so far? You ain't seen nothing yet."
Look, in the context of what keeps people up at night, that's a sinister line. What do you think is coming?
TILLIS: Well, what I hope is coming is a Senate that's still controlled by Republicans. So, I want people like Susan Collins and Jon Husted and Dan Sullivan to do well and make sure that we stand in the breach.
I believe that the House is probably going to begin just continuous investigations, some valid, maybe some political, but that's going to create all kinds of challenges for this administration that hasn't really done a good job of engaging Congress. I have been asking the president, who I support and vote with a vast majority of the time, to engage Congress. That's how you're going to build and have a better bulkhead against the election cycle if we've done it.
Now he may lose one chamber. Statistically speaking, I think that it's likely that the House changes gavels, and he's going to have to deal with those And I believe that Congress is going to have to play a much more prominent role over the last two years of the president's administration.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Senator Tillis, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
And I want everyone to know that you're on CNN All Access as well. Senator Tillis will take Jake Tapper to the trailer park where he grew up in Tennessee, a conversational, personal conversation that you will not want to miss.
And thank you so much, Senator.
And next, dueling rallies in Texas tonight. Talarico and Paxton, by the way, Senator Tillis did not mention Ken Paxton's name there when he went through the list of those he wants to win. The early voting has begun. It began today.
And if you were online, you saw the tick, tick, tick from every county, red and blue. Next, we'll speak to the former Texas House speaker, Republican, who says members of his own party are starting to freak out.
Plus, Trump, according to Forbes, has found a wave to save nearly half a billion dollars in taxes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:37:48]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Democrat James Talarico and Republican Ken Paxton are holding dueling campaign rallies in Texas tonight. In- person early voting is now officially underway in the state of Texas.
Talarico calling Paxton the epitome of corruption.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES TALARICO (D), TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: And then there's Ken Paxton, the most -- the most corrupt politician in Texas. Ken Paxton is everything that's wrong with this broken, corrupt system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: As for Paxton, he's tying Talarico to the far left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN PAXTON (R), TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: James Talarico is a Democratic socialist, just like AOC and just like the New York Mayor Mandani. I don't think we want any of our Texas politicians to be like that.
So California, they have their two US senators. They don't need a third.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now, Texas State Representative Dade Phelan, a Republican and former State House Speaker in Texas.
So Representative Phelan, I appreciate your time, okay? Everyone is watching Texas now. I mean, you know, my algorithm is feeding me kind of county by county, hour by hour vote tallies, right? There's a level of granularity here I never expected to be a part of.
But you say that you will never vote for your fellow Republican Ken Paxson. Can you tell me why?
DADE PHELAN (R), TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Look, I'm A lifelong -- first of all, thank you for having me on your show. I appreciate it. I watch you all the time.
I'm a Republican, lifelong Republican, but just because I wear the same jersey as Ken Paxton does not obligate me to vote for Ken Paxton. If he does not align with my moral and integrity baseline as a candidate for office in the state of Texas, then I don't -- I'm not inclined to vote for him. I mean, I will skip that race. And I think there are a lot of Texans who feel like I feel to skip that race.
That's what happens when you nominate individuals. who are not, in my personal opinion, share the values of a lot of Republican voters. I've been a Republican in my entire life. Going back to 1994, when I graduated from high school, that was the last time Democrats won a statewide race in the state of Texas.
[19:40:07]
BURNETT: Wow.
PHELAN: They're Democrats on the longest losing streak of any party currently in the state of Texas. The Democrats are. And we can turn this state blue if we don't nominate the right Republicans. And so, I am not going to just vote for somebody because they wear the same jersey as I do. And I don't think I'm alone in that regard.
Listen, I'm a team player, but at some point, I got to draw the line, and Ken Paxton is a line I will draw.
BURNETT: Okay, so -- I -- let me -- let me try to understand this a couple different ways, because you said you'll sit that line out. In other words, you're going to vote and you're going to vote on other races, it sounds like, but you may not. You may just leave this one blank. So, I guess, is that what you're saying?
Because I know you've lauded James Talarico's campaign. You call him a friend, right? I know you've worked together, right? You think highly of him. PHELAN: Yeah.
BURNETT: But it sounds like you're not actually going to vote for him.
PHELAN: I'm skipping the race. I was a former speaker of the House for two sessions, been in the House for six terms now. I consider a lot of my colleagues who I served within the Texas House friends, Republican, Democrat, right wing, left wing, with the exception of a few that I got real problems with, and they have real problems with me. I consider them friends.
And I've no problem with James Talarico as a human being. And that's why I said I think he's running a good campaign. Obviously, he's running a good campaign. He is leading the polls almost every single poll since September. He has led at every single poll, the exception of maybe two.
And so, he's obviously running a good campaign. I'm just being an analysis here, someone who loves politics and just want to speak the truth about where we are right now in the state of Texas. And that's what happens, I think, when you nominate, you know, individuals who have ballot problems.
And it's not just me. There's a segment of Republicans and independents and swing voters who I think they will either skip this race or consider voting Democrat for the first time since 1994.
So, okay, so in this context, let me bring in Matthew McConaughey, because I'm sure you saw it, right? But that also hit my algorithm. Obviously, he's a proud Texan. He posted a video.
And the video was about -- because you just mentioned independent voters. It was making the case for independent candidates but also voters, right?
And his basic premise is, hey, look, guess what? There's Democrats and there's Republicans, but if you look at people's party affiliation, there are more independents than either one of those. And somehow, independents never get their people in. They got to pick from the other two lines.
Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY, ACTOR: Independents belong in the fight. Not as a protest, not as a spoiler, but as a real and potential winner on the ballot and considered seriously by us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So what's your response to that? You know, in the context of you're looking at a line where you're going to not check a box at all, knowing that that could either help Talarico or help Paxton, who's a guy you can't bring yourself to vote for, you don't have another choice. PHELAN: I -- listen, I love Matthew McConaughey. I'm a fellow Longhorn, University of Texas graduate. We agree on a lot of things when it comes to football and basketball and whatnot at the University of Texas, but we don't have any independence on this ballot.
I'm not sure what he's referring to. There are a couple of libertarians here and there, but I'm a lifelong Republican. I've never voted for a Democrat. I'm not going to start now.
My, you know, my protest of this is we know we should have certain people on the statewide ballot who I think are offensive to my personal standards of integrity and morals, and he does not meet that standard.
And you have to earn my vote. I'm not obligated to vote for you because we wear the same jerseys. So, there are no -- there's a libertarian in that -- in the governor's race, I mean, in the Senate race, but there are no independents. I'm not really, I don't know what he's referring to, but I understand what he's getting at.
Maybe if there was a third party, then we could speak to that. But that's not this race right now. This is purely coming down to Republican and Democrat. And you're seeing it today. You talked about it earlier with the early voting. that's coming out right now, and there is -- it's just Republican and Democrats that are showing at the polls right now.
There's no independent candidate that is resonating with voters right now. But this is a unique cycle. This is the most expensive race in U.S. history. I think we're about $525 million today, and we have another two weeks to go.
And they're not spending it on an independent candidate. It's Republican and Democrat at this point. And so, you have to decide whether or not you want to vote for two weeks to go. And they're not spending it on an independent candidate. It's Republican and Democrat at this point.
And so, you have to decide whether or not you want to vote for Ken Paxton or James Talarico or there's an undervote.
[19:45:02]
And you know, the undervote does -- it can impact the race. I guarantee there's going to be a record under vote when you -- because Ken Faxon is the first time he's ever been at the top of the ticket. He's always been on the ballot statewide, but he's never been the number one ballot that you see when you walk in.
So, he's at top of the ticket and we'll see -- we'll see how many more people vote in the governor's race than they do in that race. So, I don't know what the independent argument comes from, this really comes down to R versus D. I just can't bring myself to vote for somebody that I don't agree with.
And by the way, let's just get down to it. He campaigned against me. He came down to my district and wrote -- he was in commercials opposing me and supporting my opponent. I'm not going to support someone who did not support me. That's the other part of this, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Well, hey, look, I appreciate the honesty. I guess that's -- if you're going to say person with the morals you have, you're being transparent and I appreciate that.
Representative Phelan, I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
PHELAN: Anytime. Thank you so much.
BURNETT: All right.
And next, we have new reporting from Forbes on how Trump is using a cunning tax strategy that could shave off nearly a half billion dollars from his tax bill.
And breaking news, chaos consuming France, some of the worst riots in decades erupting across the country. Tonight, President Trump wading in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:00]
BURNETT: Tonight, $450 million. Half a billion. That is the jaw- dropping amount in potential tax savings for President Trump, who claims charitable deductions on land that happens to be his golf courses.
This new reporting coming from "Forbes" senior editor Dan Alexander.
The tax maneuver started with his golf course in Bedminster. Trump gave up the right to build more on the property, saying he was protecting bird habitats with a golf course, claimed a $39 million charitable donation. But he kept the land and he kept, you know, making money on the golf club. The IRS challenged it, saying that the deduction should be worth zero. But then he did it again and again, five deals, in fact, over 20 years that Forbes estimates could allow Trump to avoid paying taxes on more than a billion dollars in income.
Trump's own attorney describing one of those deals this way, quote, "This is tantamount to the U.S. taxpayers paying Donald Trump to keep his driving range and use it for exactly what he is already using it for."
Now, the biggest potential write-off of all is Trump's golf club in Jupiter, Florida. And most importantly, "Forbes" reports that Trump appears to be using the power of the presidency to protect these tax breaks, right? The special treatment.
OUTFRONT now, Dan Alexander, "Forbes" senior editor who broke the story.
So, Dan, I mentioned here, the IRS has challenged Trump doing this in the past, but he's been able to keep using this maneuver, and now that he is president, that can even put him in a different and more advantaged position. Can you explain how this works?
DAN ALEXANDER, FORBES SENIOR EDITOR: The most important thing that he's done to protect himself here is that in January, he sued, in his personal capacity, the IRS. So that put him on both sides of the lawsuit. He's both the plaintiff and he's also the president overseeing the IRS.
Of course, when you're on both sides of the lawsuit, you're likely to find an agreement that is good for you. And in this case, the settlement that they reached was that the IRS was forever barred from going after past offenses of the Trump Organization.
Now, because many of these conservation easement issues had raised problems with the IRS, that essentially meant that he was all good on those things. He also has then appointed leaders of the IRS and of the Justice Department that seemed to be very loyal to him, which raises questions about even if there were issues, whether he would be scrutinized for those issues.
BURNETT: Right. And I mean, needless to say, when you look at conservation easements, golf courses have always been hugely controversial given the chemicals and all the other things that go into them that to cause and the environmental manipulation, right, to call them, you know, environmental easements has always been a question mark.
You dived into five of these deals. So, we mentioned Bedminster, $39 million. Silver Springs, $21 million. Up to $323 million at Doral in Florida.
Now at Jupiter, now this is -- this is -- explain this to me, okay, because my head starts to spin. You say the club is worth about $120 million, but that Trump giving up the right to develop it would produce an $825 million deduction?
How's that math work?
ALEXANDER: What Donald Trump has recognized here is a enormous arbitrage opportunity. Golf courses aren't worth all that much money because they don't turn out huge profits. But if you put a creative appraiser on the job and say, okay, well, what if you took this huge course and you divide it up into small plots of land and you sold all those off houses, then how much could it be worth? And you get to a much, much larger number.
And the difference between those two numbers creates an opportunity. You buy something for not that much money, and then you tell the IRS that your donated rights to develop that something are worth much, much more, and suddenly you can make back all of your initial investment and then some just on your tax savings.
That's what he's done over and over again, and that's what he's poised to continue doing.
BURNETT: Right, which, you know, to a regular person may not pass the smell test. You report that Trump could do this again and again. After all, he's president. As you say, he's defendant, he's plaintiff.
It's his IRS, right? He's in charge of it.
ALEXANDER: Yeah, and the people who are running the IRS for him now and are in the positions that would be scrutinizing this sort of thing. So Frank Bisignano is the CEO of the IRS.
Now, he happens to own a home that backs up to Trump Jupiter, the very course that Trump has just placed this conservation easement on in 2025. So, he's actually one of the beneficiaries of the easement.
Then you also have Attorney General Blanche, who signed off on the immunity deal with Trump.
BURNETT: Wow. All right, Dan Alexander, thank you very much for all of that new reporting. We appreciate it.
And next, we're going to take you to Paris, where a curfew is in effect. Tonight, obviously, early hours of Tuesday morning now after widespread riots left parts of the city engulfed in flames.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:02]
BURNETT: Breaking news, catastrophic riots erupting across France, devastating violence, horrific injuries, thousands now behind bars.
And Melissa Bell is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The violence taking France and the world by surprise. Clashes and looting that turned so many streets in France to chaos. Town halls vandalized or torched. Attacks, said the president, on the French Republic itself.
PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON, FRANCE (through translator): Those who sought to bring down the republic will be held accountable.
BELL (voice-over): The state of public services, the high cost of living, and anger at the government drove more than half a million people to the streets.
But things took a dark turn even before the marches began.
BELL: Air that is heavy with tear gas, because already there have been some scaffolds here between protesters and police, here at the Plaza La Republique. These two marches that are set to set off from this Central Paris Square, really not due to start for another 45 minutes or so, but already, the scenes have been pretty violent. And again, the air is very thick with tear gas.
BELL (voice-over): Very quickly, the protests descended into chaos. With hundreds of shops looted, the far right, which leads the polls ahead of next year's presidential election, is laying the blame for the violence and destruction squarely at the government's feet.
JORDAN BARDELLA, PRESIDENT OF FAR-RIGHT NATIONAL RALLY: If France is still standing, it's no longer thanks to a government that ran for the hills, but thanks to the dedication of our law enforcement.
BELL (voice-over): President Trump weighing in, blaming migrants and urging French borders to be closed fast. At times, it seems, hoping for a revolution.
TRUMP: Let's go to the beautiful country of France and get involved in the revolution.
BELL (voice-over): MAGA also seizing on the protests and sharing pictures to warn of similar chaos should the Democrats wrestle back control of Congress in the midterms.
The vice president blaming Western liberals for importing the third world in the name of diversity and compassion. and House Speaker Mike Johnson sending a warning to Americans of what happens when the quote, "radical Marxist insurgent left gets its way".
Moscow too is watching. accusing France of hypocrisy in demanding uncompromising condemnation and strict measures to deal with riots at home, whilst releasing angry press releases about the inadmissibility of suppressing protests elsewhere.
Political polarization inside France is also adding fuel to the fire, with the far left joining protests to demand action from the government and fears now for next year's presidential poll.
SEBASTIEN LECORNU, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): There's no way we will allow violent minorities to impose an agenda of violence and prevent us from holding this election.
BELL (voice-over): The government is to hold talks this week with French political leaders to urge them to calm their rhetoric, even as it seeks to control its streets.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Thanks to Melissa Bell on the ground there and all of you for joining us as well.
"AC360" begins now.
