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Early Start with Rahel Solomon
Ex-Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton Indicted; Zelenskyy To Meet With Trump Today At The White House; Trump Raises The Prospect Of Using Force Against Hamas. Aired 5-5:30a ET
Aired October 17, 2025 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[05:00:24]
BRIAN ABEL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome to our viewers, joining us from the United States and all around the world. I'm Brian Abel. Thank you so much for being with us.
It is Friday, October 17th, 5:00 a.m. here in Washington, D.C.
And straight ahead on EARLY START.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Three indictments of President Trump's enemies in 21 days. Now, John Bolton.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a bad guy.
TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Bolton insisting that this is purely revenge. That's clearly not the case.
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. president will welcome his Ukrainian counterpart to the White House. Zelensky is hoping to secure a pledge for Tomahawk cruise missiles that can strike targets deep inside Russia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a citizen. He's a citizen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The incident in Chicago is just one of many recent ICE encounters caught on tape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABEL: President Donald Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, could turn himself in to authorities in the coming hours. He is now the third high-profile Trump critic to be indicted in less than a month. Bolton is facing criminal charges over his handling of classified information.
A federal grand jury in Maryland indicted Bolton on 18 counts of transmitting and retaining national defense information. Sources telling CNN the investigation is centered around detailed notes he took of his daily activities when he was working for President Trump.
Bolton is accused of sharing that information with his wife and daughter and keeping printouts in his home.
President Trump said he didn't know about the indictment when questioned by CNN's Kristen Holmes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John Bolton was just indicted by a grand jury in Maryland. Do you have a reaction to that?
TRUMP: I didn't know that. You told me for the first time, but I think he's, you know, a bad person. I think he's a bad guy. Yeah, he's a bad guy. It's too bad. But --
HOLMES: Have you reviewed the case against him?
TRUMP: -- that's the way it goes, right? That's the way it goes. Will I what?
HOLMES: Have you reviewed the case against him?
TRUMP: No, I haven't. I haven't, but I just think he's a bad person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABEL: The charges unveiled Thursday are the result of a criminal investigation that began in 2022 after Boltons emails were hacked by Iran. Bolton has denied any wrongdoing and claims the charges are politically motivated.
President Trump's former White House lawyer, Ty Cobb, says Boltons indictment does have legal merit. Here's part of his conversation with CNN earlier.
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COBB: This case would not have been brought, but for Trump's revenge, because we know the Biden Justice Department declined to bring this case quite likely to avoid burning the means and methods through which they extracted the Iranian intelligence, which is a valid governmental concern.
Having said that, what we have now is, you know, Bolton insisting that this is, you know, purely revenge. That's clearly not the case. If you read the indictment, keep in mind that in the Comey case, season, senior prosecutors who were later forced to resign told the Justice Department that there was insufficient evidence to pursue the case.
In the James case, senior prosecutors in the -- in the Eastern District advised, that not -- they didn't even go to insufficient evidence. They said there's no case.
That's clearly not what we have here, when you look at this indictment and keep in mind, Judge Lamberth, five years ago in the dispute over the book, pointed out that Bolton's unilateral conduct had raised serious national concerns, national security concerns that he had gambled with national security. He'd probably harmed his country, and he'd certainly exposed himself to potential criminal liability.
So, this shouldn't come as a news flash that you know, there's a potential crime here.
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ABEL: Bolton is blasting President Trump, saying he has become the latest target in the weaponization of Trump's Justice Department. But as CNN's Tom Foreman reports, the two men weren't always adversaries.
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TRUMP: John is somebody that I actually got along with very well.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his first term, President Donald Trump and John Bolton were buddies close enough for Bolton to defer to Trump's power.
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: He'll make the decision. It's his call.
FOREMAN (voice-over): To defend him against some accusations of improper conduct.
BOLTON: I mean, really, the conspiracies are about as obscure as you can imagine. And just subjects of people's imagination.
FOREMAN (voice-over): And for Trump to listen when Bolton spoke.
TRUMP: I like John, I get very good advice from John.
FOREMAN (voice-over): And why not? Bolton had worked for every Republican president since Ronald Reagan. He had cheered the new commander in chief for building up the military and would become Trump's national security advisor.
[05:05:09]
But soon, the two were clashing over foreign relations, intelligence assessments and the chaos of Trump's orbit, which Bolton compared to the inside of a pinball machine.
Trump dumped him. Bolton wrote a blistering book describing Trump as stunningly uninformed, obsessed with his image and bumbling through relations with North Korea, China, Russia and more.
BOLTON: He doesn't operate the basis of grand strategy or even policy. He operates on the basis of what's good for Donald Trump.
FOREMAN (voice-over): He even spoke to the various serious accusations of Trump trying to meddle in federal investigations.
BOLTON: I don't think I know enough about all the circumstances, but I'll tell you, it did feel like obstruction of justice to me.
FOREMAN (voice-over): With the 2020 election looming, Trump attacked, suggesting Bolton, through his book, had raised a security risk.
TRUMP: He released massive amounts of classified and confidential but classified information. That's illegal. And you go to jail for that.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Trump's Justice Department launched an investigation, and after Trump lost the race, the Biden administration dropped it.
But after Trump retook the White House in 2024, the Justice Department made surprise searches of Bolton's home and office, and Trump resumed the drumbeat. Bolton was an unhinged war hawk whose good times with Trump are over.
TRUMP: I'd be with foreign leaders, and I didn't even have to act tough because they said, look, that moron John Bolton, he's crazy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Simply put, this feud has been growing for years, and it seems to have not lost any of its ferocity. And now, one way or another, it may have reached a turning point.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
ABEL: Fresh off his success with the Gaza ceasefire, Donald Trump is now turning his attention to the war in Ukraine. The U.S. president will meet his Ukrainian counterpart at the White House in the coming hours today.
President Volodymyr Zelensky is hoping to secure a pledge for Tomahawk cruise missiles that can strike targets deep inside Russia. He says every decision that strengthens Ukraine will bring the end of the war closer.
Meanwhile, President Trump says he will travel to Budapest, Hungary, within two weeks or so to meet with Russia's Vladimir Putin. The announcement followed a 2-1/2-hour phone call between the two leaders on Thursday.
With a Putin summit on the horizon, President Trump says it may not be the perfect time for U.S. lawmakers to approve sanctions against Russia. A bipartisan bill with 85 co-sponsors has been held up for months as the Trump administration pushed for diplomacy.
The bill would impose a variety of sanctions, including on energy imports from Russia, in an effort to choke off the Kremlin's cash for funding the war.
And joining me now, CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.
Thank you for being with us, being an early riser this morning.
First, Colonel, we know that Tomahawk missiles will be a topic of discussion at the White House today. And I want to lay out what having those on the battlefield would mean for Ukraine. Strategically. How big of a deal that would be. But also operationally, because these kinds of missiles need training and Tomahawks can't be fired by land that we know of, at least. And I highly doubt that the U.S. would be giving Ukraine any sort of developmental machine machinery.
So, practically speaking, how would this work?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: So, yeah, this is a very interesting aspect. Brian, good morning to you.
One of the things that they really have to watch out for is that these are great weapon systems, but if you don't have the proper launch platform, then it's not going to be something that can be used by the Ukrainians. They don't have the vessels that can carry a 20-foot-long missile into position and then launch it. So usually, it's launched by submarines or by surface ships. And Tomahawk would have to have a land launch capability for it to be effective for the Ukrainians.
Now, if the Ukrainians have developed something that could launch this, this weapon system, that would of course, be a game changer. And the Ukrainians have been known to do those. If it is deployed, if the Tomahawk is deployed, it would bring a lot of the main metropolitan areas of Russia -- Moscow, Saint Petersburg, all the way to the east, toward Yekaterinburg in the Ural Mountains, all of that would be a possible area that could be struck by Tomahawks.
So, the Russians are afraid of the Tomahawk because of that possibility. But seeing Tomahawk on the field right now and being used and being employed in this war is something that we wouldn't see for at least a few months, if not a few years.
ABEL: As for the sales pitch, Colonel, would the U.S. stipulate a need to know when it comes to the Ukrainians targets with these missiles?
[05:10:04]
And if so, does that put Zelensky in a precarious situation because of Trump's relationship and communication with Putin.
LEIGHTON: Yeah, certainly would in my opinion as well, because one of the key things is that the Ukrainians might get the tomahawks, but they wouldn't be able to employ them without the tacit or explicit approval of the United States, depending on the arrangement.
And what that would mean is that, in essence, the United States would get a veto power over the use of the Tomahawk. One of the big Russian fears is that the Tomahawk would be equipped with a nuclear capable warhead. That would definitely not be the case. The Ukrainians would not get nuclear warheads from the United States. So that fear is not well-founded. But it is something that the Russians have raised in in their response to the possibility of a Tomahawk missile showing up on the battlefield at this point.
ABEL: Okay, so Trump and Putin speaking on the phone for nearly 2-1/2 hours Thursday, agreeing to meet in Budapest, not exactly neutral ground given Turkey's alignment with Russia. I'm assuming the timing of the Putin call is no coincidence. Ahead of this meeting with Trump and Zelensky. What's your read on all of this? Because there does seem to be a pattern here in the past where President Trump, after speaking with Putin, would soften his stance on Russia and harden it on Ukraine.
LEIGHTON: Yeah, that's exactly right. And that kind of pattern is has been one that we've seen repeatedly in the relationship between President Trump and President Zelenskyy, as well as President Trump and President Putin.
As you mentioned, Budapest and Hungary is not a neutral territory. The prime minister of Hungary, Viktor Orban, is practically an ally of Vladimir Putin. And I can practically assure you that any venue that these two men would meet at would be well-surveilled by the Russian intelligence services.
So, this particular aspect, you know, to go to Budapest to do this, to conduct this kind of meeting that clearly plays to Putin's advantage. And it does create, you know, a degree of uncertainty for the Ukrainians and potential danger signs as well.
ABEL: And, Colonel, let's talk about the Gaza factor. We see the U.S. brokered ceasefire currently holding between Hamas and Israel. The Trump administration has signaled it wants to take that momentum to other conflicts. What's the likelihood it does carry over to these conversations between Trump and Putin and Trump and Zelenskyy?
LEIGHTON: Well, there's, you know, I think in President Trump's and the administration's view, there's nothing that breeds success like success. So, we'll have to see, you know, with Gaza, the -- you're right, the ceasefire is holding at the moment, whether it continues to hold is, of course, an open question.
So, there are some risks in doing this because if you don't concentrate on getting one conflict resolved, then -- and move to other hot spots around the world, then that could be a bit of a problem, you know, when it comes to maintaining that momentum.
I think that, you know, once you get into this negotiation with the Russians for the Ukraine conflict and the Ukraine conflict, I think it will prove to be a very different conflict from a diplomatic perspective, as well as a military perspective. And that very fact will make it something that will be very, very difficult to carry that momentum over into that conflict.
So, I don't see it as being a, you know, the possibility of, you know, making success for, you know, based on the Gaza peace process. I don't see that as being possible to carry that success over into Ukraine, at least not directly. But it could be something that they would use, you know, just in terms of public relations. But the details are going to be very, very difficult to work out in the Ukrainian situation.
ABEL: Retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton, appreciate you sharing your expertise with us, sir. Thank you.
LEIGHTON: You bet, Brian, anytime. ABEL: Sources tell CNN that the U.S. military carried out another
strike on a boat in the Caribbean. They say some crew members survived, but their current status is unclear. At least six separate strikes have been conducted on boats in Caribbean waters.
But this is the first time there are reported survivors. The White House has said the strikes are part of an effort to combat drug trafficking, and according to President Trump, drug trafficking is part of the reason why the CIA has been authorized to operate inside Venezuela. But it's unclear whether agents have authority to remove President Nicolas Maduro.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think President Trump believes that Nicolas Maduro is an illegitimate president leading an illegitimate regime that has been trafficking drugs to the United States of America for far too long, and we're not going to tolerate it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABEL: And all of this comes as the admiral responsible for U.S. forces in the Caribbean says he is retiring. Admiral Alvin Halsey has been on the job less than a year.
[05:15:03]
Sources say tensions have been growing between the admiral and defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, over the strikes in the Caribbean.
Well, sparks flew as the three candidates vying for New York City mayor faced off in a fiery first debate. Front runner Zohran Mamdani was pushed by Republican candidate Curtis Sliwa and independent Andrew Ccuomo to provide specifics about his plans for the city if elected. The two older rivals tried to paint Mamdani as inexperienced and unprepared.
The Democratic nominee didn't say how he could exactly achieve his signature policies, which include free buses or freezing the cost of rent-controlled apartments.
There was also heated debate over Israel and Hamas, with Cuomo pushing Mamdani on the issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW CUOMO (I), NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Why wouldn't he condemn Hamas? Why wouldn't he condemn Hasan Piker? Why did it take us here tonight for the first time, for him to say it? He still won't denounce globalized intifada, which means kill all Jews.
There are a lot of New Yorkers who support me, and there are a lot of Jewish New Yorkers who support me because they think you're antisemitic. So it's not about Trump or Republican. It's about you.
MODERATOR You do you think he's antisemitic, Mr. Cuomo?
CUOMO: I don't make those judgments about people.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I have denounced Hamas again and again, and it will never be enough for Andrew Cuomo, because what he is willing to say, even though not on this stage, is to call me the first Muslim on the precipice of leading this city, a terrorist sympathizer is to send mailers that artificially lengthen my beard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABEL: But Mamdani wasn't the only one taking heat. Cuomo faced questions about his past as governor and his ultimate resignation. The candidates were also asked how they would deal with President Trump.
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MAMDANI: The difference between myself and Andrew Cuomo is that my campaign is not funded by the very billionaires who put Donald Trump in D.C.
CUOMO: Donald Trump would go through Mr. Mamdani like a hot knife through butter. He's been in government 27 minutes. He passed three bills. Thats all he's done. He has no experience with Washington, no experience in New York City. He would be Trump's delight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABEL: Israel is putting Hamas on notice about the remains of hostages that are still in Gaza. Still ahead, Israel's prime minister drops a hint about what could happen next if the remains are not returned.
Plus, there's no end in sight for the U.S. government shutdown. We'll have the latest on what lawmakers are doing as a closure drags into another week.
And later, a U.S. judge scolds the Trump administration over the actions of federal agents in Chicago.
You're watching CNN EARLY START.
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ABEL: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is warning Hamas that there will be a price to pay if it doesn't return the remains of deceased hostages in Gaza. On Thursday, he marked the anniversary of the October 7th attack on Israel under the Hebrew calendar. Sources say that in a separate meeting with top security officials, he said he knows how many remains. Hamas currently holds. And he said Israel will, quote, act accordingly if they are not returned. That's happening.
As U.S. President Donald Trump is raising the prospect of using force against Hamas, but making it clear U.S. troops will not be the ones to follow through with it.
Salma Abdelaziz is monitoring all of these developments for us from London -- Salma.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You've raised a lot of red flags there, Brian. Of course, from the threats from Prime Minister Netanyahu to the threats from President Trump. But about a week into this ceasefire, and as precarious and as fragile as it is, it is holding, and that is largely because mediation efforts continue to work. Why do I say that? Why do I believe that diplomacy is still functioning in this case?
Well, there's a few signs in these last few days of that. First of all, of course, assurances are being issued. We understand that President Trump, in a phone call with Prime Minister Netanyahu, provided that support in that backing. In terms of the continued the continued struggle to find the remains of those 19 deceased hostages, we also know that us mediators are right now scrambling to put together a task force that may be able to provide the specialist equipment, the expertise and potentially the intelligence that is needed for Hamas to find the remains of those 19 dead still believed to be inside the enclave.
Secondly, of course, we are seeing de-escalation actually working. So Israel had originally threatened to potentially cut off or restrict aid to the Gaza strip. In response to this issue. Now it has backed down and according to U.S. and Israeli officials, aid is going into the enclave as required by the ceasefire agreement.
And finally, and this is very important here. My third point, that communication channels remain open. We heard from Israels hostage coordinator yesterday that mediation efforts are ongoing and consistent. We're also hearing the same from Arab parties who continue to open those communication channels with Hamas. We're hearing the same from President Trump himself, who says he has received reassurances from Hamas that they remain committed to the deal.
But there are -- there are a lot of things that can go wrong here, of course, Brian, and that's why you're hearing this. Yes, we have faith. Yes, we believe in the deal from President Trump. But if things go wrong, people will -- take a listen to what he said.
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TRUMP: I didn't say who would go in, but somebody will go in.
REPORTER: Who?
[05:25:00]
TRUMP: It's not going to be us. We won't have to. There are people very close, very nearby that will go in. They'll do the trick very easily. But under our auspices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABDELAZIZ: Under our auspices, there's that key portion there. President Trump clearly seeing himself not just as the architect of this deal, but also the guardian of this deal. And that's what you're going to hear from diplomats and mediators involved in this peace process that the U.S. needs to stay engaged, it needs to stay focused, and it needs to continue to push both these warring factions, not only to stay committed to the truce, but to try and get to phase two, which is even harder.
ABEL: All right, Salma Abdelaziz in London for us, Salma, thank you.
Some U.S. federal workers are turning to TikTok to vent their frustration over the government shutdown. We'll take a look at some of the posts after the break.
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