Return to Transcripts main page
First Move with Julia Chatterley
President Trump Extends The Lockdown To April 30th And Warns 100,000 Americans May Die; Seventy Four Million People Living In India Slums Are Unable To Distance From Others; Amazon's Worker Walk Out As Retail Giant's Staten Island Staff Saying They Don't Feel Safe. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired March 30, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:07]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.
End of April. President Trump extends the lockdown and warns 100,000 Americans may die.
Lockdown impossible. Seventy four million people living in India slums are unable to distance from others.
And Amazon's worker walk out. The retail giant's Staten Island staff saying they don't feel safe.
It's Monday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome to all our FIRST MOVErs around the globe, as always. I hope you had a safe weekend and yes, as I mentioned, it is Monday for anyone at
home and having trouble keeping track of the days. We're not calling it social distancing anymore here on FIRST MOVE.
We're calling it physical distancing only because social interactions by phone, FaceTime, Skype, whatever you use are more important than ever. So
make that call. It's a challenge, but we'll get through it.
It's also going to be another challenging week I think ahead for global investors is the coronavirus death toll pushes higher. We've got U.S.
futures higher at this moment.
Europe has turned mixed as you can see. We did see a weaker session overall in Asia. Bucking that trend though, Australian stocks, the government there
unveiling a new $130 billion aid package.
Elsewhere, oil hitting fresh 17-year lows. JPMorgan saying crude could hit $10.00 a barrel as demand collapses, forcing production to stop all
together. We'll have more analysis on that in a moment.
And the dollar is higher for the first time in four days. Just to give you a sense of what we're seeing here. The Dow coming off its best week since
1938. That of course, thanks to the fiscal and monetary stimulus measures that triggered a blistering midweek rally.
Perspective, as always, for me, though the Dow still down some 24 percent year-to-date, and as I've been saying to you guys for weeks, we still need
to see a slowdown in the spread of the virus. Peak cases, as we're calling it and evidence, of course, that the financial aid provided so far is
providing economic support.
And of course, a firm acknowledgement perhaps, too, that more aid, particularly in the United States will be needed.
You know my views, $2 trillion is a lot, but more will still be needed. Let's get to the drivers because I want to bring you up to speed with an
update from around the world.
Nearly three quarters of a million people around the globe have coronavirus. That's according to John Hopkins University. There are around
140,000 cases in the United States, with nearly 2,500 people losing their lives.
Here in New York State, those numbers have reached a fresh high. There are nearly 60,000 cases, and more than 1,000 deaths.
Italy meanwhile, on the verge of 100,000 cases, and over 10,000 people have lost their lives. That's more than anywhere else in the world. Italy,
Germany and Spain are the worst affected parts of Europe.
Back here in the United States, President Trump has given up reopening the country by Easter, he is extended his social distancing guidelines until
the end of April because his top medical adviser warns there may otherwise be millions of cases in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So you're talking about 2.2 million deaths -- 2.2 million people from this.
And so if we could hold that down, as we're saying to 100,000, it's a horrible number, maybe even less, but to 100,000, so we have between
100,000 and 200,000, we all together have done a very good job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Christine Romans joins me now. Christine, we are hearing more sense now as far as protecting lives is concerned if the United States and
the parts that are in lockdown at this moment remain so until the end of April, but of course, there's an economic cost and that continues too and
financial aid still going to take a while to come for many people.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And it's urgent. It's really urgent because Wednesday is April 1st. Rents due. Auto
loans are due. People have bills to pay even though the economy has been stopped on purpose.
This stimulus is a rescue. It's a bailout. It's a life preserver, but it is not going to get the economy back on track. That's just meant to keep
people whole if they can in the very near term.
You're hearing some pretty aggressive numbers, Julia, from the White House. Three weeks until the first stimulus checks go out, and by Friday, Larry
Kudlow, the President's chief economic adviser, he said Friday banks -- small businesses will be able to go to banks and apply for their loans and
get their loans to pay their overhead for a couple of months.
I want to be optimistic and I really want that to happen and that means there's a lot of work going on at Treasury and at the Small Business
Administration and with the big major banks to make sure that actually happens.
[09:05:04]
CHATTERLEY: And you and I were debating before the show this morning about just what proportion of small businesses outgoings will be covered here. Is
it purely just payroll costs or will they get some forgiveness and will it be grants if some of their outgoings like rent and lease payments, all
sorts of covenants?
I know that's part of the anxiety that we are both hearing from the business community in this country. There's still a lack of clarity out
there which isn't helping.
ROMANS: It's a very big promise. It is a very big pot of money, and now comes the details, right? Small business owners want to know they're going
to be made whole.
You know, over the weekend, we were hearing from White House officials the message -- this message for a small business, keep -- go back, rehire your
workers if you let them go, because we are going to pay you to do that.
Very specifically, we're going to pay you to rehire your workers.
But there's so many questions, there's no playbook for this. You know, in two months, will we have packed malls and sporting events and restaurants
and concert venues? You know, I don't know that we're going to go back right away to that moment again and that's what is making business owners
so nervous.
They don't know what the new normal is going to look like on the other side, and when we're going to get there, the virus is still dictating the
timeline here.
So I think there's a lot of risk for investors and for business owners in the very near term. But I do think Julia, between the Fed and Congress, the
promise has been made, that the money is going to flow and maybe more money even after this, but for now, the money is going to flow, and I think that
has -- that has put at least for right now, a floor under sentiment a little bit.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a great point. And again, we were debating whether or not someone, a worker for one of these restaurants might actually be
better off being made unemployed, and getting unemployment benefits in this stage at this moment, if they're actually getting more money as a result of
that.
The challenge here is great, and we really have no sense of the timeline, to your point, an underpinning perhaps a little bit more confidence, but
even Goldman Sachs coming out today and saying as far as markets are concerned, you have not seen the bottom yet and I think this is a very
important point.
ROMANS; Yes, I mean, look, you can't use this crisis, it is so different. Every crisis is different, but you always try to look to the past for some
sort of a guide. This happened so fast and is so unprecedented. We just don't know what the risk is for investors.
But in prior crashes and prior crises, for all different reasons, you tend to go back and retest those lows again, at least a couple of times before
you're convinced.
I mean, this stage in 2008, there were a couple of pretty ferocious tests of the low and it wasn't until March 2009 that the bottom was finally put
in, so everyone is different, but no one knows exactly what's going to happen in the next near term here.
CHATTERLEY: Be cautious. That's our message. Christine Romans, thank you so much for that.
Now, some people at work, some people hoping to be rehired, others working, but remain concerned. Amazon employees at a New York fulfillment center are
planning to stage a walkout today in protest over the company's response to the virus.
The warehouse workers are demanding Amazon close the facility for cleaning. Clare Sebastian is in New York. Clare, great to have you with us. They've
got one confirmed case, but I know that some of the protesters are saying, look, there are more people that have been tested for this, and they are
simply very concerned about going into work every day and just how well they are protected.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Julia, coming at a time when Amazon has never been more critical in society. I
mean, this is what's keeping many of us out of grocery stores, out of pharmacies and drugstores simply by being able to order online.
But there is a human cost to this and the assistant manager in charge of the strike at the Staten Island facility fulfillment center at that Amazon
facility in New York says that he believes up to seven people have tested positive for COVID-19 in the facility and they are concerned for their
safety.
They want the company to close the site, as you say, to clean it, to pay the workers while they do that, and to make that part of the protocol.
Now, I've been to this facility in Staten Island. It's a huge sprawling facility. It employs about 4,500 people and looking at it, you know, you
could say yes, it's fairly easy. It's very automated there. It should be easy enough for workers to stay apart from each other.
But there are communal areas where workers have to congregate and they are clearly very worried.
Now, this is what Amazon is saying. They are saying they recently implemented daily temperature checks in all operation sites, and they say
the best way to deal with this is communication.
Now, teams on site they say are speaking directly with employees each day to hear their questions and discuss options that are available in this ever
changing environment.
But clearly, Amazon is trying to ramp up these services. It's hiring 100,000 people around the country, but it is also, the company says, trying
to improve conditions for workers upping pay, for example, to at least $17.00 an hour, but clearly, pressure ramping up on this company.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and them saying that no one has to work if they feel afraid, but then it's unpaid leave. Though if the people are sick, they get
paid leave. So that's also the challenge for people, can they afford to be frightened, stay away from work and not get paid?
[09:10:01]
SEBASTIAN: I mean, that is -- yes, that's a huge challenge here. They say that anyone who doesn't feel comfortable coming to work, you know, because
of the current crisis between now and the end of April, can have unpaid leave and there will be no repercussions. They won't lose their job over
it.
But of course, that is the dilemma. You know, people can't always afford to take time off from work and that's a big issue.
And Amazon, Julia is not the only company facing pressure in this environment. Instacart also facing a potential walk out.
CHATTERLEY: Okay, we lost her there. My surprise, look there. But yes, to Clare's point, the difficulty here and perhaps for some of these workers,
and we had this conversation with Christine Romans, perhaps it would be better off at least in the short term to be unemployed and claiming those
extended benefits. The challenge remains.
All right, another country now. Stay home and self-isolate, those are the clear instructions from India's government. But one in six Indians simply
cannot follow those orders.
They are among the 74 million who live in the country's densely populated slums.
Vedika Sud is in New Delhi for us. Vedika, a huge challenge for millions and millions of people that simply can't socially or physically isolate as
we're calling it like other countries are managing to do. Talk us through it.
VEDIKA SUD, CNN FIELD PRODUCER: You know, Julia, one would think the biggest challenge for 1.3 billion people under lockdown in India would be
to adhere to that lockdown.
For example this, we're talking about slum dwellers across India, which is turning out to be a logistical nightmare. And why so? Because you have, you
know, let's just take Dharavi. It's Asia's biggest slum.
Now in this slum, you have about four to five or maybe even 10 people living in a small room. They don't have running water. They don't even have
access to a toilet within their homes.
They actually have to walk out of their homes and make way to a toilet and one toilet in Dharavi is accessed by 1,500, nearly 1,450 people on a given
day. Now this is a nightmare.
Also these people have been rendered jobless because of the lockdown, so there is economic pressure on them, financial pressure on them as well. And
this comes at a time when they don't even have running water. They have to actually move out of their homes, walk about a hundred meters to get water
to go ahead with the chores for the day.
Slum dwellers aren't only facing this problem. You also have migrants across India, migrant workers rather across India, who is facing the same
problem. They've been rendered homeless and jobless ever since this lockdown.
They, along with their families are walking a hundred miles or even more to get back to their native towns and villages.
This comes at a time when they have no money, no food, some may even say you know dying of hunger is a bigger fear than dying of coronavirus. What a
statement? It really hits home, doesn't it? And this comes at a time when the Prime Minister himself on Sunday apologized to the people for the
hardships that they are facing due to the lockdown, especially the poor.
But at the very same time, on Monday, which is today you had the central government reach out to the state governments and issue an order stating
that these migrant workers could violate the lockdown, if so, take severe steps.
We've even seen arrests of these poor migrant workers take place today. So clearly social or physical distancing is not the solution for India's poor
-- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Vedika Sud, thank you so much for joining us on that human tragedy. I think, it doesn't define it quite frankly, and we need a global
response to provide support, too. Thank you for being with us and stay safe.
Oil under pressure again on fears of an extended coronavirus locked down. Right now, Brent crude is hovering at around $26.00 a barrel. Lows that
haven't been seen in almost two decades and the worst could be yet to come.
John Defterios joins me now. John, a suggestion from JPMorgan today that we could see $10.00 a barrel of oil and in some parts of the world, we're
already seeing it.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Indeed, Julia and they're not alone. In fact, Global Energy which is a leading consultancy is
saying we can breach $10.00 if we continue on this same path to the next OPEC meeting in June. It's not unthinkable. Let's put it that way.
In fact, we see in Canada, price has traded at $10.00 a barrel, and I'm told even in the Permian, people are trying to unload the crude that
they've already produced. So it is pretty radical.
Let's take a look those prices again, today. This is an 18-year low for Brent and a 17-year low for WTI. We actually breached $20.00, Julia,
earlier in this session at $19.92. So that is the new benchmark.
I think Rystad Energy really hit this just right in terms of the tone. They called it the atomic bomb hitting the market. What do they mean here?
They're saying that demand destruction could be as high as 15 million barrels a day. Get this, it's three times the level that we saw back in
2008.
Remember that $140.00 a barrel, then it went all the way down to $30.00? This is much worse than that.
And at the same time, the reason we have the renewed selling today, this is the week that Saudi Arabia and here in the UAE, they add an additional
three and a half million barrels to the market over this month, so that's a shift to 18 million to 19 million barrels.
[19:15:04]
DEFTERIOS: So if you go back to the start of 2020 to look at prices, we've seen a 50 percent correction in 10 days, nearly 70 percent since the start
of the year. But Julia, that's a mistake.
As you're looking in the rearview mirror, you have to say when this demand destruction stop? Dan Yergin, the author and strategist was suggesting that
we could see demand drop by 20 million barrels a day as early as next month.
Is that at the end of the second quarter, so oil majors can plan for the future? That is just too early to call.
CHATTERLEY: Too early. John Defterios. Thank you so much for your insight, as always.
All right, we're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE, but coming up, as the coronavirus rapidly spreads across the United States, governors are
bidding against each other for medical supplies for their states. We'll be talking to the Governor of New Hampshire.
Plus, the hotel industry also on the front lines hit hard by the pandemic. How many jobs are at risk and how is the plan to handle the crisis shaping
up?
Stay with us. That's after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where we're looking at a higher open for U.S. stocks this Monday.
Futures are firming up after drifting in and out of positive territory for the past few hours. The negative news flow, though surely will weigh on
sentiment this week. Grim numbers on health, and of course grim numbers on the economic fallout are expected.
Thursday's weekly unemployment claims should give us the most accurate snapshot of just how bad things are. Claims could be rivaling last week's
historic rise of 3.3 million people filing for benefits here in the United States.
Now, in this country, individual governors call the shots on controlling the spread of the virus within each state. They run the risk of being
accused of overplaying or underplaying the response.
New Hampshire last week announced a stay-at-home order until May 4th. It was also one of the first dates that caught my eye to ensure things like
utilities are not cut off if bills go unpaid during this period.
Chris Sununu is the Governor of New Hampshire and joins me now. Sir, fantastic to have you on the show. Let's begin by talking about your stay
at home order.
You have been criticized for waiting too long to do this. Explain why last week's decision was the right time for you and what this actually means for
people in the state.
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Well, you know, New Hampshire has been very fortunate in that we haven't seen the level of infection with the corona or
the COVID-19 virus like we have in places even just the south of us, Boston or New York. We're able to really look at that data.
Boston and Massachusetts made their declaration earlier in the week, we made ours our stay-at-home declaration later in the week. We were able to
look at what essential businesses we were going to keep open, what non- essential businesses were going to be most effective.
How the stay-at-home order really works? We want people to be able to go out and go to their job, go get those necessities at a grocery store, even
go over and exercise.
But other than that, we really are encouraging everyone, you are healthier at home. The data is very clear. If you put these pieces into place, you
can suppress the viral infection. And again, get through this in a quicker amount of time.
CHATTERLEY: You know, what we've had, particularly from business representatives, whether it's the retail industry or the manufacturing
industry, defining what's essential, not just the first touch point for individuals and consumers, but also on the supply chain, who actually
brings the groceries to the stores that then sell them.
Is that something that you feel you have control off and have organized appropriately in the State of New Hampshire?
SUNUNU: Absolutely. I mean, we went through pages and pages of different types of business, things you wouldn't normally consider.
A laundromat -- well, is a laundromat really essential? Actually, it is for low income families, that's the only way that they can actually wash their
clothes. When you look at truck drivers.
When you look at all these different small pieces in the economy that you normally wouldn't consider as part of that supply chain for health, for
safety, for groceries, for utilities, whatever it might be, when you start adding all of that up, the list of essential businesses actually gets quite
large.
Now you still have to have those non-essential ones. You know, they have to, you know, shutter down for a while, and that's a tough decision.
As you were just mentioning with the unemployment numbers across this country here in New Hampshire, for example. In the first week, I was very
aggressive in opening up unemployment insurance for those affected by COVID, and in the first week, we saw 10 times the number of unemployment
requests, as we saw back in the worst month in 2011 -- ten times -- and so it's incredibly aggressive. It's incredibly fast.
When you look at the national numbers, to be honest, I think they're even greater than the national numbers because you start dividing up full
unemployment versus partial unemployment.
Here in New Hampshire, if you've been affected by COVID-19, you can apply and we've opened up that door and a credit to the Federal government for
coming in and providing a backstop on a lot of that unemployment insurance through the $2.2 trillion stimulus package that was done last week.
So it's all about making sure that individuals feel they can be safe at home. They're not going to be evicted. They're not going to be foreclosed
on. Your utilities won't be shut down. Hopefully there's enough in the unemployment pool to put food on the table, take care of their families for
a few months, and we can get through it on the back end.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, this was where you caught my attention, because very quickly, you said, no utilities will be switched off if people don't pay,
and it's the same for phone, for cable, for gas.
You are suspending foreclosures for mortgages, for rent as well. You were to me right out there saying, look, we have to stabilize the system and
outgoings are going to be the biggest problem here, not necessarily the money that people can get in unemployment benefits.
Do you think your model should be followed by more states? Because not all of them have made this judgment and we've certainly not seen it at the
Federal level?
SUNUNU: Yes. So you know, here in New Hampshire, we really try to focus on the individual, not just the big system. I mean, you have to make big
system decisions.
But the trick of government is how does that decision really affect him and her and that family and that child and that educational opportunity?
And so by breaking it down, I'm an engineer by trade, and so by really breaking it down to that level, I think we've been able to make big, big
decisions that understand how it impacts at a very localized level.
In other states, you know, they have the ability to do that. I think -- I think all the governors are working as hard as they can. We talk on a
regular basis, especially here in my region, I'm talking with the Governor of Vermont and Massachusetts, Maine, almost on a daily basis about, you
know, best practices.
This is very uncharted water for folks. But in a small state like New Hampshire, we almost see it as our responsibility to set that new standard
of the individual. And when you do that, really good things can come.
This is going to be very tough on individuals and families. Never mind the difficulty that states and municipalities will have with managing some of
their bigger government programs, but on the individuals, that's what this crisis is all about, caring and empathizing with that fear with that
anxiety, putting yourself in their shoes.
And when you do that, that's when you start realizing, okay, we can't get them foreclosed on. We can't get let their utilities go. You know, we were
one of the first states in the country to back hospitals with the $50 million fund because all of the elective surgeries are gone.
So the hospitals aren't going to be financially cash stable in very short order, so we quickly put the money there for the hospitals, but more
importantly, for the individual.
[09:25:06]
SUNUNU: We want our citizens to know that those doors are going to be open to them if and when this surge hits.
CHATTERLEY: Governor, one of the other things we've seen is individual states fighting over medical supplies, fighting with F.E.M.A. in certain
cases, pushing up prices. I've compared it to the "Hunger Games," quite frankly.
Does this need to be centralized, too? Do we need an overriding body to be able to allocate resources? Sort out the production chain here as well and
make sure that businesses -- large businesses now can produce ventilators, for example and that supply then gets distributed to those that need it
most? Does this need centralizing?
SUNUNU: Yes, so that's kind of what we're in now. It's not a battle of centralization. F.E.M.A. is really that centralization. They've given us a
couple of allocations out of our Strategic National Stockpile in terms of materials. They're making sure a lot of it goes to the epicenters of New
York and Detroit and I can appreciate that
But as every Governor is doing, trying to make sure that we also get our allocation for when the surge hits.
The commercial market has been opened up to us in a couple of realms, you know, 3M making more mass. We can buy directly from them. We can buy
directly from our own suppliers, but the whole world is trying to buy from those suppliers. So we get that competition.
What is incredibly interesting is the opportunity for manufacturers here in New Hampshire and other states across the country. Manufacturers are
completely retooling what they do for business.
As an example, we had a company that made ice hockey masks, within a matter of days, they're now making face shields for our hospitals across New
Hampshire and New England.
We have folks that did something completely different and are retooling their factories in very short order to meet our very direct needs here in
our home state.
That's a huge ask of them. They're doing it voluntarily. They're stepping up to the plate. Ultimately, I think it's those individual efforts that are
going to turn the tide and allow the supply in terms of where it needs to go.
F.E.M.A. has to do what F.E.M.A. does, I get it. We're -- I don't want to say we're fighting with them, but we're constantly fighting for our
allocation to make sure that they don't, you know, lose the small states in the mix of the big crisis because we are all going to face a surge. Nobody
is going to get out of this clean.
We're all going to face a surge. It's just the timing of that that has to be balanced.
CHATTERLEY: Governor, you said you're not fighting with them, but some states believe they are. Would you agree that there are better ways to do
this, and that involves better leadership at the national level?
SUNUNU: I think one of the frustrations everybody has is communication. I mean, my frustration with F.E.M.A. has been if you're only going to give us
a certain piece of what, you know, is allocated already for us, let us know when it's coming.
Like we're literally waiting for it day by day. Is the shipment going to arrive? So I think some of the communication out of Washington is one of
the biggest frustrations there.
We talk a lot about ventilators and we understand the ventilators in New York City, they have to get there. They're probably first, but again, you
can't forget the little guys as well.
So I think the communication is one of the biggest frustrations that we're all having. It doesn't have to be a new rebuilt centralized system.
Look, I don't think F.E.M.A. was ever, ever really designed to, you know, build and create just PPE for individuals, they've become that stop gap of
logistics to be sure.
In any situation, communication is always best. So we're going to kind of keep fighting for what we need.
The states aren't really fighting against each other. Really, I think we're just trying to get -- make sure that we're not lost in the big picture mix
because when this surge hits in two or three weeks, and we're still a few weeks out, it's going to really be the level of fear and panic and we need
folks to be making sure they are communicating and not just reacting to the crisis.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, making your voices heard which to your point comes right back to our communication.
Governor, stay in touch please. Thank you so much for joining us, sir. Chris Sununu there.
SUNUNU: Thank you. Be safe.
CHATTERLEY: The Governor of New Hampshire. To you, too, sir.
The market open is next. Stay with us. We will be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:31:45]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. The start of a new trading week on Wall Street. We're looking at early session gains this Monday.
Last week's big bazookas from the Fed and the U.S. Congress, not to mention other governments are round the world still lending a degree of support I
think here, but a lot of talk this weekend about the need for additional emergency aid and now that the U.S. economy will stay shut through April,
also a big debate over whether stocks may have found a bottom or not.
Goldman Sachs sent in new notes that we must see three things before that happens. A slowdown in the spread of the virus, evidence that fiscal and
monetary policy is working and a bottoming out of investor positioning, too. Have those people who have been caught long here and underwater sold
their positions down? Goldman's metrics show more selling is ahead.
Richard Quest joins me now. Richard, I have to say you and I have been saying this now for what? A couple of weeks that we're not sure that we
have enough information here yet to suggest that the selling pressure is over.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: No, but at the same time, the speed with which the market recovered, it was unrealistic.
Look, it's unrealistic on the downside and it's unrealistic on the upside. The speed with which the market recovered suggests that there is this still
pent up demand.
Julia, I know it sounds perverse, but at the same time, think about those days where we've seen the market falling, but you can always feel the
upward pressure wanting it to go higher.
And I think in this case, once the technical fundamentals, which is what Goldman Sachs is talking about, they're talking about technical issues
here, where investors are waiting to get out when you're seeing evidence of the monetary and fiscal policy working.
Once they are believed to be okay, and I think there's a wall of money waiting to go back into the market, because at this point, the sellers are
mainly institutional, I would suggest.
The sellers are mainly traders, the ordinary investor, unless they desperately need the money, realizes they're going to have to ride this
out.
CHATTERLEY: But it still doesn't get us to the end of the health crisis, the underlying health crisis, which was another one of their conditions.
QUEST: That is in the hands of people doing what I'm doing, you know, staying at home, quarantining for a variety of reasons. That's in the hands
of people who are social distancing.
It is ghoulish to talk about it, but I looked at the number of fatalities, and the United States per capita is set to be just about everybody else.
It's a grim record that nobody would wish to have.
If the U.S. follows the model that it looks like it's doing at the moment, then the damage will be greater and deeper than it needed to have been.
But at the moment, if you look at where New York and the rest of the country is, vis-a-vis the European Union and the number of fatalities
there, versus for example, China, 1.2 billion people and 3,000 deaths, then you start to see just how damaging this is going to be for the U.S. fabric
of society, and of course, along with that comes the economy.
[09:35:13]
CHATTERLEY: And of course, the healthcare workers on the front lines. Richard Quest, as always, a pleasure. Thank you for joining us.
The novel coronavirus has now infected more than 723,000 people worldwide. Over 34,000 have died. And that's according to John Hopkins University.
As Richard was saying there, the U.S. has the most confirmed cases in the world. Around 140,000 people have been infected and the death toll has
jumped to more than 2,400 lives.
President Trump has extended Federal guidelines until April 30th, saying the peak of the death rate is expected to hit in two weeks' time.
Dr. Peter Slavin joins us now. He is the President of Massachusetts General Hospital and Professor of Healthcare Policy at Harvard Medical School. Dr.
Slavin, thank you so much for joining is on the show. I appreciate it. You're incredibly busy.
The first thing I want to ask is, how are you doing? How are your staff doing both physically and mentally at this moment?
DR. PETER SLAVIN, PRESIDENT, MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL: Yes, the staff are doing remarkably well. I spent some time visiting with the units
where our COVID patients are being cared for, and I was just so impressed with the spirit of the staff and how it seems like a new normal has set in
at the hospital.
We now have about 185 patients at Mass General, about half of whom have been tested positive for COVID and the others who are waiting for testing
results, but we're overall less busy than we normally are because of all elective activity that we've
CHATTERLEY: Talk to me about supplies. We keep hearing concerns that inventories perhaps weren't high enough. I don't know how you prepare for
this kind of crisis, quite frankly. But what are you struggling most with and what more help can be provided? What are you asking for here?
SLAVIN: Yes, we're in decent shape at the moment vis-a-vis supplies. But if this lasts for a long period of time as we expect it might, our supplies
could become a challenge.
And that's why we need this entire country to use its industrious and innovative abilities to generate the supplies that our healthcare workers
are so desperately going to need in the weeks and months ahead.
I'm glad that the President signed the Defense Production Act, but he really needs to use it as fully as possible. I know that it's been used in
the case of General Motors, which may be able to produce 7,000 ventilators, but the State of New York thinks it needs 30,000 ventilators. That seems
like that 7,000 may be a drop in the bucket.
CHATTERLEY: The other thing is, you're using all sorts of innovation to try and provide access to the supplies that to your point can be
increasingly challenging to get hold of. 3D printing masks, radiation and ozone to re-sterilize equipment.
You've even opened up a competition for multiple use of one ventilator. Talk me through what you're seeing and what you're hearing and what success
you're having on all those fronts.
SLAVIN: Not only have we closed down much of our elective clinical activity, but our research labs are largely closed as well.
But we have investigators, and some of them are terrific entrepreneurs that are very interested in helping and so they organize themselves in teams
focused on different opportunities to either produce supplies and innovative ways or to reuse them.
We were very bullish about using 3D printers to make face shields, which are surely going to be needed. Were a little less confident that they can
be used to make N-95 respirators which are more complicated.
On the reuse side, we are very bullish about using hydrogen peroxide gas and plasma gas to sterilize those N-95 respirators. My understanding is
that the F.D.A. has approved its use.
There are also some places that are very excited about using ultraviolet light. If we could reuse these respirators, it would -- that would be
enormously helpful.
And as you said, we have this group of residents in Anesthesia that have come together to form an organization called COVENT-19 collaboration. They
are working among themselves and with trainees, anesthesiologists around the country, people in industry and academia to see if we can come up with
rapidly deployable, minimalistic ventilators that could help round out the supply.
That's the kind of innovation and industriousness that we need to see throughout this country if we're going to save as many lives as we possibly
can.
CHATTERLEY: It's pretty incredible. I was listening to Governor Cuomo at the weekend suggesting that in certain places, and I know New York is front
and center of that medical staff simply having enough medical staff and getting them some time to rest is becoming an increasingly huge problem.
Are you in favor of perhaps having a pool of medical staff nationwide that could then be chosen, flown into certain states at any given point in time,
do you think that makes sense at this moment? It goes back to what you were saying about greater centralization of control and the Defense Production
Act, perhaps? Are you in favor of that?
[09:40:19]
SLAVIN: I just think something like that would be useful during this period, certainly within the state of Massachusetts, our Board of
Registration in Medicine, has loosened up the rules about physicians practicing at other hospitals and their credential there, and my
understanding is that State Boards across the country have also put in place a reciprocity system so that physicians from other states can provide
services, at least through telemedicine elsewhere.
So I think having -- using our healthcare workforce as flexibly as possible is important. I think there are going to be some parts of the country like
New York that are going to be hit particularly hard and if there are healthcare workers in other parts of the country that are having an easier
time of it, why not redeploy them?
CHATTERLEY: Is anybody having conversations? Are you able to have conversations with the White House and the Taskforce to perhaps suggest
that?
Because to me, this seems to make a lot of sense, as you say, you're already making moves to accept help from some medical providers in other
states?
SLAVIN: Yes, we are in active conversation with all levels of government. The City of Boston with Mayor Walsh, the state led by Governor Baker and
through our representatives in Congress to the White House. So there's lots of communication going on, and I think that's very positive.
CHATTERLEY: Dr. Peter Slavin, sir, thank you so much for making time and do stay in touch, please, because we'd love to hear how you're doing. Thank
you once again.
SLAVIN: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: And to all your team, heroes. All right. We're going to be back after this. Stay with us. You're with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE as we continue to assess the economic damage caused by the coronavirus pandemic and the lockdown here
across the United States, we consider the hotel industry and the impact there.
According to the numbers released by the American Hotel and Lodging Association, the industry supports 8.3 million jobs in total. It says 3.7
million of those jobs are projected to be lost. So just to give you a sense, that's 45 percent of the total.
The hardest hit states would be California, Florida, Texas, New York and Nevada.
Chip Rogers is the President and CEO of the American Hotel and Lodging Association, and he joins us now via Skype. Chip, great to have you with
us. Thank you so much for making time. Those statistics are really, really alarming.
Is a 45 percent worker loss even given the stimulus that the Federal government and Congress has agreed to in the past few days?
CHIP ROGERS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, AMERICAN HOTEL AND LODGING ASSOCIATION: Well, it really depends on how long the situation lasts. So the package out
of Congress really would carry the industry for about eight weeks maximum, and that wouldn't be all employees. But that would be a good portion it
pays for about the next eight weeks following once an owner gets a loan.
If this problem persists for 10, 12, 16 weeks, then we will still have significant job loss and layoffs will continue all the way through that
period.
So we may have to go back and look at this again. We're very grateful for what has happened so far. It is a lifeline. There's no question about it.
But it may need to be extended if we don't want hotels to go out of business and millions of workers to lose their jobs.
CHATTERLEY: It's tough to understand even at this stage, I think the contours and the details of what these small business loans look like, but
I know they've been capped at 250 percent of the payroll costs for this business.
Just given the outgoings that I'm sure many of these businesses have, never mind the payroll of workers. Is it enough or do you see limitations already
in the contours of the loans or grants that are being provided?
ROGERS: Well, the loans, the way it is structured is heavily geared towards paying employees, which is fantastic.
CHATTERLEY: Right.
ROGERS: There's no question about that. Our industry wants that to happen. But the reality is, if you're a small business owner and you don't service
your debt, these workers won't have a job to go back to because the business will go under, they will go out of business.
So you've got to be able to service the debt, even if that's interest only debt, and that's why we may need to look at this again, to see if we can go
beyond that eight week mark that the legislation already lists and make it 10, 12, 14, 16 weeks so that some of the debt can be serviced as well.
CHATTERLEY: I see what you're saying because at the moment that is covered as part of the loan money that we're talking about.
But beyond that eight-week period, you're concerned that people aren't going to be using hotels, potentially, we could still even be in a lockdown
situation, and then it becomes really tough.
ROGERS: Well, we know the President just announced yesterday, social distancing to at least the end of April. So if you're expecting the public
in a two to three-week period to get back out and be back to normal traveling levels, that's a little aggressive, I would say.
So this help has got to extend beyond eight weeks.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, for some of these workers, might they be better being made unemployed, in the short term and collecting the increased and
extended unemployment benefits? Is that perhaps an option for some of those that you represent, rather than trying to retain all their employees,
perhaps doing a mix of both?
ROGERS: Well, there will be a mix of both no doubt. There will be a mix of both out of necessity, and some of these businesses are going to close and
they are not coming back and that's just the harsh reality of what we're facing here.
One of the good parts about staying on your employer's payroll is you also get access to those employee benefits, particularly healthcare.
So there's a benefit of staying on the payroll, but the reality is a lot of people ultimately will have to go on to unemployment.
CHATTERLEY: Talk to me about the efforts that you're making at this stage to offer hotel rooms and beds to medical workers in hospitals that simply
just need somewhere that's not home, for safety reasons more than anything just to rest and then go back. Talk to me about the work that you're doing
there.
ROGERS: So a little over a week ago, we began working with the Federal government on this idea of getting all the hotels in the country that were
willing to participate to be part of this program, we're calling it Hospitality for Hope.
And what this is really doing is matching a need with available hotels. So when we started this, we just simply put out a call to our membership and
thought, you know, maybe a few hundred across the country would sign up.
Well, we're happy to say there are over 14,000 hotels that are now available for this use, and that's for either medical purposes where maybe
a local hospital has too many people and they just don't have anywhere to put them or it could particularly be for people who need to be quarantined.
They don't necessarily need to be in a medical facility, but they need to be separated.
And so these hotels have stepped up and made themselves available. Luckily right now, the full demand is not there. We hope we never get to that
number of 14,000, but we have made them available.
[09:50:09]
CHATTERLEY: And who's paying for that?
ROGERS: Well, it would either be in the local area, the city, the county, the state, or in some cases, the Federal government. We're working on those
negotiations as well, because what you're going to have to do as a hotel owner is take your property completely offline and hand it over to your
state or Federal government. And you would do that for 30, 60, 90 days, and you enter into some sort of agreement, a very low rate, of course, but it
would be at least some businesses coming into the hotel, and most importantly, servicing that need.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's so important, but to your point, it perhaps puts more economic pressure on individual states as well, which I think is
another argument that people are making that more money is required thereto.
Fred, I just want to circle back to what we were saying about the number of job losses potentially here, the number of businesses at risk.
In a best case scenario, how many jobs and what proportion of hotels and lodgings do you think we lose anyway here?
ROGERS: Well, coming into last month, there were 8.3 million people employed in the hotel industry directly and indirectly in the industry.
There are really about 9.2 jobs available -- 9.2 million. We are at about a 900,000 gap.
Right now, we believe that about 70 percent of hotel workers have either been furloughed or laid off, and what that means is either their hotel is
shut down, or the hotel is operating with just two or three people just trying to keep the doors open.
So as we look forward, if we can get back to normal occupancy, by the end of the year, maybe you have job loss of only a million, a million and a
half people but you're going to have significant job loss and some of these hotels are never going to open their doors again. They just can't make it.
CHATTERLEY: Well, Chip. Great to have you with us. Stay in touch please and stay safe. Chip Rogers of the American Hotel and Lodging Association.
The economic cost of this health crisis continues to stack up.
All right, we're going to take a break. Coming up though on FIRST MOVE, something to warm the heart as we drop by the hospital where staff is
singing to support their friends on the front lines, "You'll Never Walk Alone." That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Stocks at this moment solidly higher. The Dow has been pretty volatile in early trading. We have to
expect that of course, but it does follow that strong 12 percent rise last week.
Remember Goldman Sachs warning that we've not reached the lows for these markets at the moment. We need to see peak cases. We need to see the
stimulus kicking in and having some kind of positive effect hereto, never mind the technicals in the market.
We have remained cautious and will continue to advise caution at this moment.
Boeing is currently the Dow's Biggest loser, down some 10 percent, but Johnson & Johnson as you can see on the top side here among the Dow's
biggest gainers, along with the likes of Walmart, Coca-Cola and Intel, so it is a mixed bag.
[09:55:07]
CHATTERLEY: Some of the financials under pressure once again JPMorgan Chase, and Goldman Sachs and energy of course with oil markets are under
pressure once again today.
All right, so Richard will be back with "Quest Means Business" later on this afternoon. But we end today's show, on a high note we're going to do
this every day this week as we go to Rotterdam in the Netherlands for you where this video of hospital staff serenading their colleagues on the front
lines has gone viral.
They are thinking "You'll Never Walk Alone" by Gerry and the Pacemakers. The song has become one of the defining themes of these troubled times.
If you have videos, tweet them, send them into the show and we will play them for you. But for now, I'll leave you with a sound of some heroes'
voices. Thank you to all of them around the world.
And thank you for watching. We'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
END
