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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Twenty Three U.S. States Report A Rise In COVID-19 Cases; PepsiCo Closes Beijing Plant After Infections Confirmed; CNN Racism Poll Reveals Britain's Opportunity Divide. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 22, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
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JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE:... users trick President Trump's team over rally attendance.
Wow. It's Monday. Let's make a move.
Welcome once again to all our first movers around the globe. Good to be with you on a milestone day here in New York City, as the reopening
continues. For the first time in three months, we can now get a haircut. Yes, it's the simple pleasures.
Restaurants can serve outside. Some workers are heading back to the city, too. I'll emphasize the some. Sadly, the news in many parts of the United
States and around the world, too remains sobering. Twenty three U.S. states are reporting a rise in infections and the World Health Organization
recorded its largest ever jump in global COVID-19 cases on Sunday. So the battle, well and truly continues.
Right now, I'll give you a look at what we're seeing for U.S. stock market futures. Solidly higher after gains last week, too. Friday's session though
was dented by news that Apple plans to shut 11 stores in states with rising COVID cases. The stop start recovery.
Asian stocks meanwhile are treading water, as you can see today, though the Nikkei and the Hang Seng have gained more than three percent over the last
five sessions. Let's take at European stocks, too. They are soft, but all the majors as well rising some three percent last week.
For investors, there's a tug of war going on between economic data and stimulus on the one hand, and health data I think on the other.
Here in the United States, you can compare statistics like the better than expected job gains, the retail sales numbers that we've got over the past
couple of weeks, versus the worsening state of the nation's health.
This is the best illustration I can give you to compare the virus cases in the United States and the E.U.
It is okay preparing for a second wave in the fall here in the U.S., as long as you acknowledge that wave one is simply not over. That comparison
chart for me speaks volumes.
Blackrock now saying Europe's economic growth could outperform the United States in the second half of the year because of its robust economic
response to the crisis, never mind the policy response. Let's get to the drivers. Rosa Flores has more on the surge of new coronavirus cases here in
the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Trump administration says it's preparing for a possible second wave of the coronavirus after a week
of downplaying the recent surge sweeping across nearly half the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: We are filling the stockpile in anticipation of a possible problem in the
fall. We're doing everything we can beneath the surface, working as hard as we possibly can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES (voice over): Last week, Vice President Mike Pence said in a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed that panic over a second wave was overblown. And on
Saturday, President Trump said this to supporters about coronavirus testing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I said to my people, slow the testing down, please. They test, and they test. We had tests of
people who don't know what's going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES (voice over): His staff later said he was joking, but the increase in cases within at least 23 states is very serious for many state leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D), ATLANTA: Do you think the people, the 120,000 families out there who are missing their loved ones thought it was
funny?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES (voice over): With a focus now on Florida as a possible epicenter of coronavirus, Governor Ron DeSantis is now admitting the recent spike in
cases isn't only due to testing while highlighting a shift in just who is receiving positive results.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Increasing or being flat, the number of people testing positive is accelerating faster than that. And so, you know, that's
evidence that there's transmission within those communities, particularly the 20s and 30s.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES (voice over): While some officials say more young people are being diagnosed due to widespread testing, others suggest it's because they
failed to follow social distancing measures.
Either way, health experts sending this warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: These people tend to be less
symptomatic. They get less ill. And they tend, therefore, to be spreaders. They can spread it among their fellow workers, their family members.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES (voice over): There's also a surge in Arizona, where Trump is scheduled to hold a campaign rally tomorrow. Cases nearly doubling there
over the past two weeks and passing the 50,000 mark.
Still, Republican Governor Doug Ducey says he has no plans to slow the reopening of the state.
In Phoenix, City Council voting to make masks mandatory in public for its residents, with the county also issuing an order. Phoenix's Democratic
mayor says she hopes the President will comply during his visit, despite repeatedly avoiding masks at other events during the pandemic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR KATE GALLEGO (D), PHOENIX: One of the reasons we have this growth in Arizona is complacency. We've had elected officials say that the worst was
over a month ago. That was not the case, and we are seeing records of the type we don't want to break.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[09:05:10]
CHATTERLEY: Rosa Flores reporting there. Now to China where Beijing says it has more than doubled its coronavirus testing capabilities to around one
million people a day. This comes as PepsiCo shuts down one of its plants in the Chinese capital after several workers tested positive for COVID-19.
China also suspending poultry imports from a Tyson food plant in the United States, following an outbreak of the virus at the facility. David Culver is
live in Beijing for us.
David, always great to have you on. Two very important stories, one, the ramp-up in testing there, but also supply chain concerns. Talk us through
both, please.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Julia, good to be with you as well. And you point out this is having an impact on businesses in particular.
Now, as far as the capacity increase is concerned, that is significant. You're talking about a million people a day capacity that they could do for
screening for the coronavirus here within Beijing. That's just within the Capital City.
Now, they currently have done about 2.3 million tests. That's the number of people that they have gone through with certain screening linked to the
original outbreak about ten days or so ago with the Xinfadi seafood and regular produce market and that obviously has been shut down.
The perimeter and several of the surrounding neighborhoods have been shuttered and kind of put into a Wuhan-like lockdown.
Outside of that area, life continues mostly normal, however, the screening is intense and it's something that they anticipate will continue over the
next several days.
The most recent increase in cases is only about nine and that seems relatively low when you compare it internationally in particular. However,
it's most concerning because it is the Capital City we're talking about here.
Now, going forward, they do anticipate these cases to continue each and every day to be added to the total and right now, they're looking at 236
with regards to this most recent outbreak.
But as far as the business is impacted, you mentioned that PepsiCo being one of them, they had a factory that makes potato chips here in Beijing, it
is shut down and it had eight employees who tested positive. And then with regards to the imports, they have Tyson Meats that normally are coming in
here to China from the U.S. in particular, they had to stop all that import for now because of concerns linked to the outbreak within the U.S. in those
particular manufacturing plants there.
All in all though, they are looking at this as something under control here in Beijing and that's something that they're stressing and they also stress
that this is a European strain of the virus. It's going to be interesting to see in the coming days if that control and calm is maintained, because
one thing we looked at are the anecdotal experiences and that particularly relates to what the hospitals are dealing with.
And you look at Wuhan and after we made those trips there initially, dating back even to January, you wanted to see the influx that the hospitals were
having to deal with and that gave us a good idea as to how accurate the numbers were.
As of now, we've been making the rounds and looking at a few hospitals here and things seem relatively calm and appear to be under control -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, good to know. Also very important point on the supply chains, because we've allowed the supplies of goods to move around the
world even as we've stopped people. So, when you start to see suspensions on food imports, you have to raise some eyebrows here.
But, yes, we don't want to be connecting too many dots here. For now it's important to note. David, great to have you with us. David Culver there, as
always, fantastic job.
All right, missing cash, plunging shares. Wirecard stock is down over 85 percent in the past three sessions. This after the payments firm
acknowledged that the $2 billion sum that auditors can't find probably never existed.
Anna Stewart is following this remarkable story for us. Just explain what brought us to this point, Anna, so that our viewers can understand what's
going on, and where were the auditors when $2 billion can't be found?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: It's an incredibly complex and thrilling tale, really. $2.1 billion is a large amount by any measure, but this represents
a quarter of the company's assets.
The story really begins last year when "The Financial Times" first reported on accounting irregularities. It did this through the help of some
whistleblowers and as a result of that, KPMG they were employed to do a special audit of Wirecard.
Now, they couldn't point to direct manipulation, but they said certain information was missing, particularly regarding bank accounts, and this
vast sum of money related to Wirecard's so-called third-party acquiring business. This is where Wirecard operates in a country that doesn't have a
direct license, it outsourced to another processing company.
And the money was thought to be held in Asia, largely in the Philippines and some bank accounts there. Now, since the KPMG report, EY were meant to
do their regular audit. They've done it for around 10 years now and following KPMG, they also discovered that they really couldn't find this
money or the accounting for it.
[09:10:13]
STEWART: Over the weekend, the Governor of the Central Bank of the Philippines, this is where we head to next, did confirm that Wirecard says
they have two bank accounts at two different banks within the Philippines, but he says that no money related to this ever entered the country's
system.
So what was emerging last week is this story of a missing $2 billion has now turned into, did it ever even exist? And if it didn't exist, well that
brings into huge question the scale of fraudulent activity within Wirecard if that is the case, but also how did it bypass auditors and regulators for
so long?
CHATTERLEY: I couldn't agree more, Anna. What on Earth was going on? The CEO, who has been there almost two decades has now stepped down. He is the
largest shareholder. What next?
STEWART: I would love to know what the next chapter is. Now, in any ordinary situation with an accountancy scandal, you would expect more heads
to roll, an internal probe, an audit that could actually be completed so they know what's happened and potentially criminal prosecution if it shows
major fraudulent activity, which it suggests at this stage that it would.
The question is can Wirecard survive through that process? Will it have any employees? This is a huge amount of its business. It needs to roll over
some loans, who and which creditor is going to give it money at this stage? So, there's a question of the viability of the actual business itself.
And then actually, if you just broaden it out, you've got to look at the fact that this story wouldn't really emerge without "The Financial Times."
What about the auditor that has been auditing them for a decade -- EY? What about the German regulator, which when this tory first emerged last year,
BaFin, the German financial regulator stopped short selling on this stock, which many people saw as a way of trying to protect the stock, rather than
focus on investigating it.
So yes, what happens next within the actual story itself? And then what kind of ramifications we see throughout the system?
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Odes of Enron over in Germany there, and of course, to your point, as well, a lot of investors here getting burned. Anna Stewart,
great job. That's a complex story and you explained well. Thank you. Anna Stewart there.
All right, these are the stories making headlines now around the world. John Bolton, who worked for U.S. President Trump for 17 months as his
National Security Adviser, says the President is not fit for office.
Bolton spoke to ABC News ahead of the release of a damning book about his time in the White House, which on Saturday, a judge refused to block from
publication.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I hope it will remember him as a one-term President who didn't plunge the country
irretrievably into a downward spiral we can't recall from. We can get over one term. Two terms, I am more troubled about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: NASCAR says an investigation is under way to find out who placed a noose in the garage belonging to Bubba Wallace, the only black
driver in the main NASCAR championship.
The organization says the culprit will be excluded from the sport. Wallace's public criticism of Confederate flags being displayed at races
was followed recently by NASCAR banning the emblem.
The anger and frustration felt by black people in the United Kingdom is laid bare in a detailed new poll by CNN. The findings from policing to
politics say they feel their country has failed them. It reveals a stark divide between black and white people's perceptions of racism.
Black Britons are twice as likely as white people to say the U.K. has not done enough to address historical racial injustice.
Today is Wind Rush Day in the U.K. It's named after the Empire Wind Rush Ocean Liner. In 1948, the ship brought hundreds of Caribbean families to
Britain. They answered the government's call to help rebuild a country ravished by World War II.
Senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir is live at Wind Rush Square in London, the crucible of black consciousness in the U.K. A very
appropriate place to be, Nima, great to have you on the show with us this morning, but stark findings, I think, in the contrast in perceptions about
racism in the U.K.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really sheds light on the depths of the divide along racial lines with regards to the
experiences, but also the perceptions of the experiences. For almost most of our answers, black Britons responses versus white Britons responses were
twice as likely.
So, when it came to the experience of disrespect by the police, black Britons said it was twice as likely to have happened to them. When it came
to their perception that the party in power, the Conservatives were institutionally racist, twice as likely to believe that to be true.
And most heartbreaking, the belief that their race had an impact on their ability to move forward within whatever profession they chose, that their
ethnicity had an impact on their success in life. Black Britons were three times as likely as white Britons to agree.
And when you break down those numbers, Julia, the picture that emerges is not just that black Britons don't appear to have been heard when it comes
to the stories that they have been telling for decades regarding their experience of life in the U.K., but it's clear that they have not been
believed by their white countrymen.
There is no other explanation for such a stark, stark gap with regards to the responses that we got when we break it down by race -- Julia.
[09:15:45]
CHATTERLEY: Nima, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that. We're going to be talking about this more later on in the show. Thank you
for now.
All right, we're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE. But still to come, digital driving -- a thaw in the hiring freeze. Singapore's biggest
bank is looking to recruit coders. We speak to the CEO next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. A quick look at stock markets as we head towards the U.S. open. Today, we're on track for a higher open.
It's the first trading day of summer, of course.
Investors not ignoring rising COVID-19 cases, and that may mean more unsettled action ahead. Airline stocks in particular in focus, remaining
volatile. American airlines leading the declines in fact, pre-market. They've announced they will raise $3.5 billion in new financing to steady
up the balance sheet. That includes selling new shares. As you can see, the entire sector under a bit of pressure there.
To Singapore now, under the second phase of reopening its economy. Malls, gyms and restaurants reopened their doors last Friday. The country
meanwhile has reported more than 42,000 coronavirus cases. In fact, that's one of the highest infections in Asia.
Last month, Singapore also warned growth could shrink as much as seven percent this year. Joining us now, Piyush Gupta. He is the CEO of Southeast
Asia's largest bank, DBS. Piyush, always fantastic to have you on the show.
[15:20:16]
PIYUSH GUPTA, CEO, DBS GROUP: Good morning, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Clearly, many small and medium size -- good morning. Clearly many small and medium-size enterprises, in particular will be relieved to
get under way, to start the reopening of the economy. What are your expectations in terms of what recovery looks like for Singapore, but more
broadly, too?
GUPTA: Well, I think in Singapore lockdowns were kind of unfortunate and therefore, a lot of the parts of the economy, actually continued working at
least, in banking, for example, we did not really see a slowdown.
But the sector which did get impacted were food and beverages, retail, the consumer goods industries as well, and for them of course, the reopening is
a God send, the task of putting up -- we transmit and people coming in for business.
Now, the reality though is that when you think about the macroeconomic construct both for Singapore and the region, this is unlikely to be enough.
But it is going to be a long hard winter.
For Singapore, we are more impacted by global economies. Our trade to GDP is 350 to 400 percent, but what matters to us is growth in the U.S., growth
in Europe and growth in China, and our own take is that that is going to be hard to come by.
In rest of the region, it's actually been quite interesting that the bounce back in the short term has been sharp, but I do think that there will be
head winds as we go forward.
I think a lot of countries have limited fiscal space, so I think that will be a bit of a drag. I think the second phase of the pandemic could happen
and if that does happen, that would be a serious concern.
But I think closer to home, from my own industry, I think for most countries, the Central Bank action and the fiscal policy action has bought
people time. They just kicked the can down the road.
As in when the government programs run out, I think you'll begin to see the second shoe start to drop. You will see a wave of bankruptcies and, as a
consequence, you will start seeing some of the real sector challenges begin to spill over into the financial system as well.
So I do think that the next couple of years are not going to be easy for anybody here or in Singapore.
CHATTERLEY: What sectors are you most worried about? I was just mentioning there, the airlines, clearly that's a challenged industry. Restaurants,
anywhere where capacity is limited by the requirement for social distancing or human interaction. What are your thoughts there?
GUPTA: I think the biggest challenge will be anything that requires cross- border activity more than domestic activity. It is going to be some time before people are willing to travel internationally, and frankly, for
corporate travel, I think it is going to see a more permanent decline, and therefore, airlines, tourism, the hotel industry will be impacted.
But you have to understand that in Asia, in addition to the challenges of COVID, there are also the geopolitical challenges that we have to contend
with. And therefore, the tensions between China and the U.S., the possibility of shifts in supply chain, mean that even manufacturing sectors
and the manufacturing industry might be impacted.
And for Singapore, which is a big country port, the notion of shifting pattern means you're going to start seeing impact in other pattern
industries as well, logistics for example and shipping, so, I do think there's a lot of uncertainty as we go forward.
I think what you'll need to do is what we're trying to do in Singapore, it is prepare for the medium term, but also begin to prepare for the longer
term, we just think about new avenues for growth, and reconstructing the economy for a different kind of future.
CHATTERLEY: It's such an important point. Speaking of avenues of growth, you had a head start as a bank in terms of the dramatic shift to the need
for digitization, to be able to access banks, facilities, whatever it was, from a distance.
And I mentioned this in the introduction as well, looking to hire, actually to add capacity to support the digital growth that you've seen and will see
going forward. Talk to me about your hiring plans.
GUPTA: Julia, as you correctly mention, we got onto the digitization wave some five or six years ago and that's been extraordinarily helpful for us,
both in terms of giving our customers very easy access, as well as letting our employees work from home.
For us, we didn't skip a beat. And frankly, our volumes are up year-on-year and productivity has been keeping pace, so that's actually been quite
helpful.
[09:25:09]
GUPTA: For us, we tend to believe in investing through cycles and down cycles of this nature are frankly a good time to add capacity to make
investments which will prepare us for the longer term.
So that is something that we are doing. We are hiring people for gender coding. We are hiring people in artificial intelligence and machine
learning, in data analytics, design people and so on and so forth.
But we are also hiring for a different reason. We believe that one of the biggest challenges right now is going to be jobs and particularly jobs for
the young kids coming out of colleges.
I really worry this is going to be a lost generation, maybe one to three years of kids who are going to be struggling for employment and as a
meaningful and material parenting, in Singapore we think it is incumbent on us to try and create some possibilities, some hope for these young kids.
So we're likely stretching ourselves to try and create jobs for many of these people, training, entry-level jobs and apprenticeship jobs so that
people really have something that they could do, they can occupy themselves, learn along the way, and frankly, I think it will benefit us,
too, in the long term.
CHATTERLEY: It's an important point and it needs to be a focus all around the world, a potential lost generation, I think you said it perfectly
there. I want to talk about the work you're doing as a bank and that your employees are doing to give back at this time, too.
I know you've been buying food from local businesses to give to people and also virtual volunteering. Talk to me about this as well.
GUPTA: Well, you know, one of the things that we think will happen post- COVID, is a very sharp focus on this idea of purpose. You know, why do companies exists? What is the social agenda they serve? And I think it's
very likely you wind up into very distinct categories, you're a hero or you're a villain.
People will be looking for companies who do real things for real people. So in that regard, we've been wanting to try and make sure that we're here for
the community and we're here for society. And like other people, we set up together a fund called Forward Together Fund. We are trying to look at
700,000 who needs -- the poor people across the region.
But one of the more innovative ideas our people came up with was this idea of virtual volunteering. There are hundreds and thousands of elderly people
stuck in their home isolated and they need companionship.
So, what we did is we figured we could do a voluntary companion program where our employees would sort of dial in and talk to the elderly people in
their home and give them someone to call in and something to take their minds off all of the tensions and the crisis that they see day to day.
That has actually picked up for the record. In fact, we have held a series of different programs but I'm particularly pleased with this one.
CHATTERLEY: This is a phenomenal program. Thank you so much for talking about it, and to your employees as well for engaging in this. I do want to
ask you very quickly, Piyush, while I have you, we have the Foreign Minister of Singapore on last week and he was talking to me about the
policy of the government promoting the hiring of Singaporean nationals versus perhaps migrants, or those from abroad.
How is that going to filter into your hiring decisions, just in light of everything you said about the challenge of readjusting things like supply
chains, the focus on national policies, but also the need to engage with talent, particularly the younger generations?
GUPTA: Julia, I think, first of all, this is part of our philosophy. Ninety percent of our talent in every country is local talent. We believe
that's the right way to run business. On top of that, I do think that, again, post-COVID, you will find this huge pressure in every country and
every market to protect local jobs, because a lot of people are going to be unemployed.
You think about the U.S., I mean, 20 or 30 million people unemployed, and there's going to be a lot of social pressure on trying to find jobs for
local citizens. I don't think it is unrealistic or frankly even indirect, and so I do think you'll see some of that.
Having said that, the Singapore government has always been pragmatic, so in our case, we do not anticipate any challenges in hiring specific talent for
specific areas and jobs if we do need those people. But I do think it behooves us to be socially conscious and make sure, as I said before, that
we are relevant to the society in which we operate. And this is not just true for Singaporeans and Singapore, it's true as much for the people we
hire in Indonesia and the people we hire in India as well.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a global conversation that's being had. Social conscience and pragmatism. The combination.
Always fantastic to have a conversation with you on FIRST MOVE. Piyush, great to have you with us. Stay safe, sir.
GUPTA: Thanks so much.
[15:30:01]
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. The CEO of DBS Bank there.
All right, the market open is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where U.S. stocks are up and running as we kick off the new trading week and it's the last full week of
trading for the second quarter, too, and we do see early gains.
Tech stocks looking set to outperform. Maybe I spoke too soon. We're already slumping in the first few minutes here. Apple and Microsoft are
going to be in focus of course, too after Friday's pullback. Yes, there you go, you see they are bouncing a little bit.
Tech was the strongest sector last week, rising more than 3.5 percent. Though it was the small cap stocks, so think more domestically focused
businesses that easily outperformed.
The Dow and the S&P 500 as you can see, it is another sign perhaps that the market breadth is improving with more stocks on the whole contributing to
the overall gains. It's not just a handful of the big tech names that are pulling everybody higher. This is important if you want to see a sustained
rally.
That said, more U.S. companies are cautious. A new survey from Moody's Analytics say only one-fifth of firms are investing for the future, a
higher rate of retrenchment in fact than during the financial crisis, so more companies this time are hoarding cash and are cutting costs. That
points to uncertainty and we know we've got that going forward.
In the meantime, San Francisco startup Kinsa says it can detect a COVID-19 outbreak more than two weeks before it happens. Its product is a small
thermometer used in households across the United States.
Data from the devices allow the company to map transmission hot spots in real time. Today, the company is warning of spikes in Oklahoma, Missouri,
Louisiana and Maine.
Joining us on the show, Inder Singh, CEO and founder of Kinsa. Inder, great to have you on the show once again.
We talked to you at the height of the crisis and you were warning about hot spots. At this point, talk me through what you're seeing in the places that
you're concerned about today.
[09:35:10]
INDER SINGH, CEO AND FOUNDER, KINSA: Yes, we're deeply concerned about those four states that you mentioned, particularly the southern states.
We're seeing higher than what you would expect in terms of transmission rates.
The speed at which illness is spreading is faster in those locations and that's concerning. It's above and beyond what you would expect for cold and
flu season and it's probably indicative of COVID-19 spreading.
CHATTERLEY: So it's not just about the number of cases that you're seeing, to your point, it's about the speed or the increase of them that you're
seeing in these areas?
SINGH: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So, we look at two things in particular. We look at the level of fever, how many people have
fever and is it above and beyond what you would expect for cold and flu season, and the second thing we look at is the rate of transmission, how
fast is it spreading. Both of those things are starting to indicate that those could become COVID hotspots in the coming weeks, two to three weeks
out.
CHATTERLEY: Just explain how your thermometer works? How the data is collected? Because there will be people watching that didn't watch the
interview with you last time, and they are thinking, hang on a second, if I take my temperature, is my data at risk? How is this working?
So, talk me through the product again.
SINGH: Yes, so we make these. These are smart thermometers and they do far more than take a temperature. They help you understand some fundamental
questions. What do I do? How sick am I? And what's going around? That inevitable question you ask when you get very sick.
They connect to an app and the app helps you -- helps provide guidance in the moment of need. That data is all aggregated and privacy is fully
protected because what we're looking at is population level data, the percentage of people ill, the percentage -- the rate of transmission. We're
looking at that level of data, not at the individual data.
And this is essentially an early warning system. We've been building this for the last eight years. In any epidemic response, there's a four-part
response. The first is early warning, and if you don't have an early warning signal, there's no way to get in front of the epidemic. So this is
really critical, these new kinds of technologies, this new way of thinking to get ahead of an epidemic is really important so we can be proactive and
not reactive. And that's what we've been building for eight years.
CHATTERLEY: I remember thinking the last time we spoke, and thinking about it afterwards, that actually when I went online to have a look at your
product, I will be honest, that there are other options out there for smart thermometers and if you guys could all speak and aggregate the data then
the map of potential cases, the spread of those thermometers would be that much larger.
Are you talking to other producers of smart thermometers to potentially do this? Because it would help the authorities tackle this?
SINGH: We would be delighted to partner with other companies. This concept and concepts like it need to be -- they need to be had by the public health
system.
Again, my public health colleagues for years have thought about drugs, diagnostics and vaccines, as they should. But we need to also start
leveraging 21st Century technology to identify where and when illness is spreading.
You know, I go back to the same question that I posed eight years ago when I started Kinsa. How do you stop an outbreak before it becomes an epidemic
if you don't know where and when it's starting? And the answer is, you don't.
So we would be delighted to partner with other smart thermometer manufacturers. We would be delighted to partner with the government to
really make sure we can get ahead of these epidemics.
You know, if you want to stop an outbreak early. You want to stop it when it's aflame, not when it's an inferno, and that's what's going to bring us
back to an economy that's open.
CHATTERLEY: You know, at some point as well, you should be able to use this data to compare states, places around the world where mask use has a
high prevalence versus states and areas that don't and compare spread versus people who are checking their thermometers and have a temperature.
Are we at that stage yet or is it too early?
SINGH: We're right in that stage right now. There's a natural experiment going on to see whether the speed of spread is higher or lower in places
that have masks.
Now, I think most people's intuition, mine certainly, is that those locations where a large percentage of the population is wearing a mask,
those places should have lower spread, and we have that natural experiment going on right now because we are seeing differences in locations in terms
of the percentage of people using masks. So I'm very happy to bring that data back to you once we have it ready.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, please do. You let us know as soon as you've got it. Very quickly, production, because that was one of the challenges, ramping up
production for the amount of demand that you've seen. Where are you on that?
SINGH: We have a capability of making millions of units per month and can scale that up further. And so, we are ahead of the demand cycle at this
point. So if anyone wants to order thermometers, please contact us.
CHATTERLEY: I see you used the opportunity there to pitch. Inder, great to have you with us. Come back when you have that data because I do think it's
so important to refute or otherwise those that don't want to wear masks at this moment. Inder Singh, CEO and founder of Kinsa. Thank you.
[09:40:10]
CHATTERLEY: We're going to take a break here on FIRST MOVE. Coming up, CNN reveals stark differences in attitudes to racism, depending on your
background. We will show the huge disparities when it comes to opportunities in life, too. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. As you already heard on the show this morning, a new CNN survey has laid bare the extent of potential racism
in the U.K., the huge disparity at least in the perception of racism, depending on the color of your skin.
Let me run through three key stats on business and entrepreneurship, specifically. The poll found 69 percent of black people believe there's
less opportunity to succeed professionally, compared to just 29 percent of white people.
Meanwhile, 42 percent of white people say non-whites have the same opportunities to succeed, while 12 percent of black people think that.
While 64 percent of black people say employers are doing too little to promote black, Asian and minority people, some stark contrast there in
perceptions.
Eric Collins, the CEO and general partner at Impact X Capital, it is a venture capital firm aimed at minority-led businesses across Europe.
Eric, fantastic to have you with us. You were just listening to those stats there. A stark contrast between the perceptions of white people and their
perception of the opportunities out there, versus what black people see. Does that surprise you?
ERIC COLLINS, CEO AND GENERAL PARTNER, IMPACT X CAPITAL: Thank you for having me. No, it does not surprise me. When you look at some of the
activities that have precipitated conversations like this, which I welcomed from CNN International, you'll note that some of the dynamics are very much
seen not only in the States, but also in Europe.
In the U.K. for instance, you've seen a series of violent clashes with police, police deaths -- citizen deaths at the hands of police, shooting in
homes, some of the same sort of dynamics which have prompted people marching in the streets with Black Lives Matter, not only in the United
States but in the U.K.
And the people that I see that are marching are not marching are not marching because they feel as though there is not a problem or the problem
exists over and across the ocean, but the problem exists very precipitously and very tangibly at home.
[09:45:30]
CHATTERLEY: I mean, it is fueling all sorts of questions. Finally, I think, to be asked that the statistics have long spoken for themselves. I
mentioned on our show last week that when you look at -- in venture capital money that goes particularly to black-led businesses, it's less than one
percent of all the money out there in the United States. Is the situation any better in Europe? Because this is what you do. You look for these
opportunities.
COLLINS: Correct. Impact X is very much looking for and has been for the last two years since our inception for underrepresented entrepreneurs,
particularly black-led companies and female-led companies.
What we've found about the 700 companies that we've been able to source is there's a great deal of talent and the talent actually exists across the
board. But when you get to the financial capability to then back that talent and to bring forward some of the ideas that we think have solutions
for COVID, we think will create the next Amazon, there's not a proportionate amount of funding which is going into those organizations.
So Impact X made it our business to focus on the places that are underrepresented in the venture capital portfolios in Europe, and we found
that in digital technology, there's still disparities in health, education and lifestyle investing, as well as media and entertainment investing.
CHATTERLEY: Why? Why isn't the money going to women-led businesses, to black or minority-led businesses? Is it about contacts? Is it about the
networks? Is it about lower returns? Because you're seeing actually what the capacity of these businesses that you're investing in is. How do they
perform relative to white business led?
COLLINS: Well, we're proving out the thesis that in fact they perform just as well, if not slightly better. It will take a little bit of time for that
to happen as we get returns on capital, but the returns on capital we will be looking at are both returns that are financial returns, which is our
fiduciary responsibility to our limited partners and investors, but also we're looking for positive social impact measured in terms of job creation,
particularly at the C-suite, the founder ranks, Boards of Directors and the technology roles within technology and other organizations.
So what we have noticed, what I think, quite frankly, Julia, is that it's a very complex web, just like systemic racism, which you all have been
talking about so well and sort of reporting on. One of the things that I note is that there is this very entrenched approach. The entrenched
approach is that you have a group of individuals called venture capitalists who promote themselves as being extremely successful and that success is
measured by the return that they have actually had in investment.
And in fact, the return they've had in investment has meant that there are very few investments made in women and minorities. If you look across the
United States, for instance, look at Silicon Valley, look at New York City, look at Atlanta, Georgia, look at Boston, Massachusetts, all of those
places that have very developed and robust ecosystems for venture capital, almost none of the partners in firms are of color or are women.
In addition, almost none of the portfolio companies are led by women or by blacks. And quite frankly, in many ways, I believe that the venture
capitalists themselves think that that's okay and that's the way to success.
And quite frankly, so there's no incentive for them to actually change their ways of doing things and there's not even any pressure externally.
They are LPs. These are the foundations. What would you expect from foundations? You would expect the pension funds.
You would expect the philanthropic organizations whose endowments are actually being invested. You would expect them to say enough is enough and
we want to see something different. But there seems to be this complicity, this silence, this conspiracy of silence around this particular issue and
we'll keep on putting the money in our pockets and putting the money in our pockets is much more important, and the way to do it is by doing it the way
we have been doing it, and there's no reason to rock the boat. There is no reason to change anything. What's wrong?
This is the system that created Amazon, even though Amazon and Google don't necessarily have any sort of black people in very high level positions.
It's very interesting and an insidious kind of a problem.
CHATTERLEY: It's such an important conversation, and we have to wrap this up here, but you're going to come back on very soon and we're going to
continue this conversation because you make so many great points. The returns are good enough, you don't have to challenge the current existing
system because the returns are good enough. You have to make concerted changes because you wish to and then you find other opportunities.
Eric, great point and great to have you with us. Eric Collins, CEO at Impact X Capital there. Thank you.
All right, coming up after the break, did teenagers on TikTok help to derail President Trump's rally attendance? We'll investigate, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:52:27]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Questions being asked after President Trump's Oklahoma rally. The Trump campaign said over one million
people registered to attend the event, but the Tulsa Fire Department says just over 6,000 people showed up. Some of those who requested tickets may
have been trolling the President in a stunt organized mainly through users of the social media platform, TikTok.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guys, I actually just reserved two free tickets for the Tulsa, Oklahoma Trump rally on Juneteenth and now I can't go because my
dog's goldfish's funeral is that day. So, it would be a shame though if everyone else did this and then there were empty seats at the rally. That
would be really bad because we don't want that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: CNN's Donie O'Sullivan is all over this story for us. So, was the president TikTok'd in Tulsa or was something else going on here, Donie?
What do we know?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Hey, Julia. Well, as you can see in that sort of video there with the sarcasm and humor mixed in is very
representative of what is all across TikTok this past week of people saying that they were registering for the event and then not going to show up.
Obviously, TikTok is extremely popular with teenagers and it does appear that young people all across the U.S. took part in this protest. Now, I
will say that there wasn't a cap on the number of people that could request tickets for the event. So it wasn't as if these TikTok users were blocking
real supporters from going to the rally in some way.
So the fact that the Trump campaign was unable to fill this 20,000 capacity arena isn't the TikTokers' fault, but what probably did contribute to was
the idea that there was going to be a million people showing up at this event.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating -- or maybe people -- always an alternative here -- which is concern about their health because cases in
the area have been rising, of course.
But there has been scrutiny over TikTok's power. We've heard the likes of Chuck Schumer, Senator Tom Cotton raising questions about national security
risks surrounding TikTok. Of course, it's owned by China's Bytedance. Do we think as a result of what happened here, whether it was contributory factor
or not, will mean more scrutiny, Donie?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. I mean, what's interesting was that the earlier concern, the letter from a Democratic and a Republican senator last year, bipartisan
concern about China's -- the Chinese ownership of TikTok and what that could mean for American national security.
[09:55:06]
O'SULLIVAN: We might now see that TikTok becomes a more partisan issue like everything else in the United States.
We should mention, though, that the Trump campaign came out with a statement yesterday specifically addressing TikTok, Brad Parscale, the
Trump campaign manager said, "These leftists and online trolls doing a victory lap thinking they somehow impacted rally attendance don't know what
they're talking about or how our rallies work. Registering for a rally means you've RSVP'd with a cell phone number and we constantly weed out
bogus phone numbers. These phony ticket requests never factor into our thinking."
But that does raise the question, Julia, if he really did weed out all of the bogus ticket requests, where were those one million people on Saturday
night?
CHATTERLEY: Yes, or even just the 100,000 that they perhaps talked about here. Maybe they decided to stay at home for health purposes. Donie
O'Sullivan, we're in a pandemic. Thank you so much for that.
That's it for the show. Stay safe and we'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
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