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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Interview With Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA) On U.S. Congress To Debate New Virus Relief Package; The UAE Leading The Race To The Red Planet; E.U. Leaders Begin A Fourth Day Of Rescue Package Talks. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired July 20, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:09]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here's your need to know.
Stimulus stalemate. U.S. lawmakers have just ten days to agree more support before aid runs out.
Mars Mission. The UAE leading the race to the Red Planet.
And mission impossible, again. E.U. leaders begin a fourth day of rescue package talks.
It's Monday. Let's make a move.
Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. I hope you all had a restful and safe weekend or a good start to the week depending on where you are.
Coming up this hour, an update from the Chairman of COVID vaccine developer Moderna. Their research of course, ever more urgent as confirmed global
cases hit some 14 million.
Also important though, thankfully, more than eight million people have now recovered. But there are plenty of medical buzz out there today. Shares of
biotech firm, Synergen rocketing higher today on news of its COVID treatment.
Plenty of warnings though flooding in from the medical community at the same time, though, so investors beware. Cautiousness surrounding all of
these things and while the science continues to race ahead, the stimulus talks meanwhile are more of a crawl.
The battle in Brussels continues today and talks begin in D.C. We've got the latest for you and while we wait, here is the stock market picture.
Keep an eye on tech yet again this week. We've got IBM, Intel and Microsoft -- all reporting results.
Also an eye on the energy sector, too. Chevron buying shale player Nobel Energy for some $5 billion in stock, and a third eye, yes, it's that kind
of day on Chinese stocks, up three percent today after last week's drop.
Regulators will now allow insurers to buy equities, too, and that helping sentiment there, but the macro remains of a challenge. Japanese export
activity falling by a quarter last month. That's the fourth straight month of double digit drops.
Japan and the rest of the region need a strong global economy, including a strong U.S. consumer, let's be clear, to snap up their goods.
That looking increasingly challenging as America's COVID emergency deepens.
Let's get to our drivers. The U.S. reporting more than 61,000 new cases yesterday. Yesterday, alone, the death toll has now surpassed 140,000
people. Dianne Gallagher has all the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the heart of Miami Beach's night life district, an 8:00 p.m. curfew and fines starting at
$50.00 when people fail to wear a mask, all efforts to help slow the spread of coronavirus here and keep residents out of hospitals.
At least 49 facilities across the state have no ICU beds available.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR FRANCIS SUAREZ, MIAMI, FLORIDA: The biggest factor is that since we got out of the stay-at-home order in April, we've seen just an incredible
growth in terms of the virus. You know, people have essentially behaved as if the virus didn't exist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER (voice over): For the fourth time this month, Florida reporting over 12,000 new cases in one day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: We had many states, Florida included that lifted restrictions too early that allowed people to go
without masks, still don't mandate masks in many of these states, and that have allowed businesses to reopen in a way that is frankly really
irresponsible when you have widespread community transmission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER (voice over): Meantime, in Washington, President Trump says it should be up to governors to decide, pushing back against a suggesting to
nationally mandate facial coverings, despite the C.D.C. and most health experts making it clear Americans should wear them to prevent transmission
of the virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want people to have a certain freedom and I don't believe in that, no, and I don't agree with the
statement that if you wear a mask, everything just disappears.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER (voice over): And according to Trump, the coronavirus will eventually be over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will be right eventually.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: I understand.
TRUMP: You know, I said, it is going to disappear. I'll say it again. It is going to disappear, and I'll be right.
WALLACE: But does that discredit you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER (voice over): But there is no sign of the virus disappearing any time soon. Instead the average number of new weekly cases is rising in at
least 31 states.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): We need to do better than we're doing because cases are going up, that's clear. America as a whole is not doing well.
People are lapsing in their caution, right? They're lapsing in their need to engage in social distancing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[09:05:08]
GALLAGHER (voice over): Arizona passing a grim milestone with its highest number of deaths in a single day since the start of the pandemic.
California announcing over 9,300 new infections Sunday. Los Angeles County accounted for more than 2,800 of those, most of them people under the age
of 41.
The mayor of Los Angeles says the city could soon be under another stay-at- home order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: I think we're on the brink of that. It's not just what's opened and closed, it's also about what
we do individually.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Dianne Gallagher reporting there. Now, with the pandemic surging as you heard there, and a cash benefit cliff fast approaching, the
need for another relief package is clear. The problem is, getting Congress to it. Lawmakers return from recess to begin those negotiations today.
Christine Romans joins me now. Christine, great to have you with us.
We are waiting now for the contours, the details of the Republican plan, $3 trillion agreed by the Democrats in the House weeks and weeks and weeks
ago. The question is where is the meet in the middle here?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, mind the gap, right? A $2 trillion gap in the middle and what's it going to look
like? We know that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has said he wants their plan to be about jobs, kids and healthcare. That that has to be the
overwhelming focus.
You know, the President just told Chris Wallace on Fox News this weekend that, in fact, if there is not a payroll tax cut, that he could veto the
whole thing. He could decide not to do another stimulus.
But we do know, Julia, that what the recovery looks like depends on what they decide on here, and we know that in a matter of days, 25 million
people will have thousands of dollars less every month because of enhanced unemployment benefits that are going to expire.
They are in the House version. There is less enthusiasm among Republicans who see a disincentive to go back to work, but clearly, there is a lot of
work to do here in a very tight window to, you know, cement what the recovery will look like.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, forgive me for being confused when you look at this. A potential tax cut for those people that are working and a reduction in
benefits to people that have lost their jobs. I'm sure there is a logic there somewhere, but it's failing me at this moment.
The other disagreement critically, I think is on testing. We know we need to ramp up testing capabilities. For months we've been saying a national
plan is required to coordinate this and speed up the response of tests that are done, and yet, the White House doesn't want to do that, it seems.
ROMANS: There is no leadership from the President on this at all, and you heard him say, I will be right eventually. When right now you have
economists and governors and hospital directors and Americans saying we need to have comprehensive leadership on a Federal level for testing and
tracing and also, you know, mask wearing and self-isolation.
These are just not messages that are coming from the White House and coming from the President at this time. He is much more interested in opening up
schools and opening up business, and you can't do one without the other. These things go hand in hand. So, it's a very kind of critical moment here.
What Congress decides on doing here, I think, is going to be fascinating, because you still have small businesses that are trying to get started and
then suddenly, they're stopping again.
I don't think you'll see a wholesale shutdown of the American economy again, but you're going to see parts of this country that will be starting
and stopping over and over again.
That's why the Republicans are so keen on liability protection for hospitals, for companies, for small businesses, for people who are trying
to reopen so they can't get sued if someone catches COVID because of an open economy.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Masks, testing, get the virus under control and then you won't have to put so much money in because the economy will be able to
function more normally. Yes.
ROMANS: The President's comment about he'll be right eventually, I just keep thinking how much damage could be done long term to the American
economy before eventually you're right and the virus is under control with a vaccine. A lot of damage can be done before eventually.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we can handle this. We just have to do better. Christine Romans, thank you so much for that. And it's not about politics, it doesn't
have to be.
The U.K. meanwhile expected to suspend extraditions to Hong Kong. The British Foreign Secretary will shortly announce the results of a treaty
review. It comes as China warned the U.K. to avoid further damage to their relationship.
David Culver is in Beijing for us. David, it doesn't look like the U.K. is going to be able to avoid this and actually, they are only following other
nations like the United States and Australia.
The fear here is that National Security Law will mean people get extradited to China and then there's no control.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And add Canada to that list, by the way. So you're right, they would be the fourth country doing this,
and nonetheless, it would anger China, as we heard from the Foreign Ministry today saying there would be a resolute reaction.
But look, Julia, we've heard with every step taken against China recently, be it from the U.S., from the U.K., from Australia, from Canada, they have
said they would meet it with necessary measures and yet they haven't really put out too many specifics just yet.
We've seen some sanctioning of U.S. officials, but it falls short there. So it remains to be seen what they're going to do with the U.K. as it looks
like the U.K. is going to move this direction.
[09:10:17]
CULVER: In fact, we heard from Prime Minister Boris Johnson just a short time ago when he said that the U.K. will be making a change to its
extradition treaty.
He refrained from giving too much detail, deferring instead to the Foreign Secretary who will be speaking at some point we presume today, and all of
this, ahead of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's visit to the U.K. in which he has stated as of last week, that top of the agenda will no doubt be the
Chinese Communist Party.
And it's been interesting to hear the very specific direction that he has been putting that criticism towards the party itself here in China, not
China as a whole, but it seems like there is an intention there to then split away from the nationalist base that's currently in place here.
So going forward, I mean, this is all, of course, rooted in this national security law, which has only been in effect for roughly three weeks.
But in that time, we have seen Hong Kong lose its special trade status with the U.S. We've seen sanctions brought against Chinese officials, and yet,
more is expected to come according to the Chinese Foreign Ministry if the U.K. moves in this direction -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and it's all before we've really seen this law being put to use, we know that its mandate is incredibly broad.
CULVER: That's right.
CHATTERLEY: And the question is going to be, how does China use it and when. We still don't know that.
CULVER: No, we don't and I think that's what China is also trying to emphasize as well. They're saying, this is about secession, subversion
terrorism and trying to deter the foreign influences which they say, the U.K. doing this, Canada doing this, Australia, the U.S., that is exactly
what they're trying to push against.
And that's why they say they put this law into place because they feel like Hong Kong has been used as sort of the cultivating ground for these foreign
forces.
Of course, that's the Chinese perspective, pro-democracy protesters would say it has nothing to do with that, it is about protecting our rights and
protecting the autonomy that the Chinese had promised in that handover back in '97.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. David Culver, great to have you with us. As always, thank you for that.
All right, let me bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.
A U.S. Federal judge's son was killed and her husband was injured after a gunman opened fire at her New Jersey home on Sunday. The F.B.I. says it's
searching for one suspect.
One source tells CNN the gunman appeared to be wearing a FedEx delivery uniform.
China is implementing strict measures in the capital of Xinjiang Province after a spike in coronavirus cases. A "wartime state" quote has been
declared which reported 17 new infections on Sunday.
Before that, authorities said it had not recorded a single case in nearly five months.
The United Arab Emirates has become the first Arab country to set out for Mars. The Hope probe launched Sunday from an island in Japan, the UAE
expects the vessel to be in Mars orbit by February. Our John Defterios joins us.
John, fantastic images and wow, what a success for the UAE to launch this rocket, the first of three, I believe this year and leaving the United
States and China.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Yes, it's kind of a new frontier, right, Julia? But we often talk about -- what -- stretch
targets in the business community. This is the ultimate stretch target because it's nearly a half a billion kilometers on this journey into the
Mars orbit.
But at the same time, it kind of gives a rebirth to the Arab region, which is very active in astronomy, for example, between the 9th and the 16th
Century, and then kind of got parked without the innovation and this is an effort to rekindle that, if you will.
The man who planted the seeds is the Ruler of Dubai and also the Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates, Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum. I
remember visiting the Space Center four years ago, is this really going to happen by 2021? And the answer is yes.
But there's a business strategy behind this, behind Dubai Inc., if you will, and the broader UAE. They want to stay one step ahead of the
competition in the region -- Saudi Arabia, Qatar kind of nipping at the heels of whether its airlines or airports, right? Artificial intelligence,
they're testing hyper loops here, flying taxi prototypes are there.
So Dubai doesn't want to be seen in the regional context. So this is the first major move by an Arab nation into space, but in a global context,
that we can do this here and now.
It's not cheap. Six years $200 million, but they think it takes them in a whole new direction when it comes to R&D -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, absolutely. They're owning the satellite technology. The skies is the future of technology, whichever way you choose to look at it,
but also for the UAE, isn't this also about galvanizing this sort of entrepreneurial spirit, the focus on STEM technology and education for
example, too.
This is a nation that we know needs to diversify away from things like oil.
[09:15:03]
DEFTERIOS: Yes, it's a perfect point you're making here because there is an energy transition underway, and then the length of that transition is
anywhere from what -- 25 to 50 years? We don't know, and Dubai doesn't sit on the oil wealth that Abu Dhabi has in the Emirate I'm sitting in right
now.
So they're introducing a whole new generation to STEM research, particularly women, by the way. Sarah Al Amiri for example, is the Minister
of Advanced Sciences and looking after this Hope Mission, if you will, or Al-Amal in Arabic, but 10 of the 33 Cabinet members are women, but men or
women, they're a new younger generation educated at universities here and abroad. And they want them to push into a new kind of higher echelon in
terms of studies as well.
But there's another again, strategy. Every time you have Dubai or Sheikh Mohammed kind of driving this, the thinking of the expo in October 21 was
delayed because of, of course, the pandemic, but this Hope Mission will enter the Mars orbit in February 2021, right?
So it's great for the theme of connecting minds and creating the future for the Expo, but it's also the 50th anniversary of the UAE. Right? This is
connectivity. It is expensive, but it does take them into an area that nobody in this region is competing with, but in the likes of the United
States and China, and that's how they want to be compared.
CHATTERLEY: And that makes perfect sense to me. John Defterios, thank you so much for that. We shall watch its progress.
All right, still to come here on the show, the race for a vaccine. Moderna's candidate due to enter final stage trials next week. We've got
the Chairman with us next.
And contract tracing in a nation of 1.3 billion people. We speak to the man in charge of India's government app. That's coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where we have our first big heat wave of the summer. Sweltering temperatures, but a cool
start to the trading week as investors await earnings from almost one fifth of S&P 500 companies this week.
S&P wannabe Tesla reporting Wednesday, too. Another profitable quarter for them could clear the way for inclusion in the S&P 500, too, so that's one
to watch and we've got some energetic deal making today, too.
Chevron buying shale producer, Noble Energy for a $5 billion, all stock sum. It's the largest deal in the sector since the pandemic hit. Oil prices
of course, too.
And it could be a big week for vaccine hopes as well. In the U.K., we expect an update on the Oxford University-AstraZeneca trial within hours.
Meanwhile, here in the United States, execs from the five companies leading the race for a vaccine testify before Congress tomorrow. Among them is
Moderna, which is set to enter the final trial phase for its vaccine candidate next week, and I'm pleased to say, joining us now is Noubar
Afeyan. He is Chairman of Moderna. He's also the founder and CEO of Flagship Ventures.
Sir, fantastic to have you on the show once again. The last time we spoke, you'd released a small portion of your trial that's now finished. Now,
you've presented pretty pleasing results in terms of the creation of neutralizing antibodies.
Talk us through your results and what we can expect in the final phase.
NOUBAR AFEYAN, CHAIRMAN, MODERNA: Julia, thanks for having me again. It's pleasure to be here. Yes, indeed, we did publish in "The New England
Journal of Medicine," with our collaborators at the N.I.A.I.D., results from the Phase 1 trial that indicated that not only did we have antibody
levels in all 45 participants, but we had neutralizing antibody levels in all of them and those levels importantly were above the high end of the
level that you see in convalescent patient sera, which is at least an indication that the robustness of the response mimics or exceeds that of
the disease itself. So that's important.
We also indicated some additional learnings about the nature of the result as it relates to this particular T-cell response that we saw. So there's
some early indications there.
The key here is that this is just one step along the journey that will really culminate in a Phase 3 trial that we also announced would be kicking
off a week from now. And so, preparations are under final stages this week to kick that off. There will be a 30,000 patient trial all over the U.S.,
again, in collaboration with lots of other parties who are helping do this.
And so we are, you know -- when you said pleasing, I mean, it is, I guess, in the environment that we're in, failure to fail represents the least
progress. And in that regard, it's one step along many to prove a safe and effective vaccine.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, you're injecting an appropriate amount of, I think caution here and those that are cautious, say, neutralizing antibodies here can't
be the endpoint because we don't know how long they last. We don't know what level of antibodies is required to provide enough protection.
Are we going to be able to have that kind of assessment before this vaccine comes to market? Assuming you're happy with what happens in the Phase 3
trials?
AFEYAN: Look, the Phase 3 trials have as their primary endpoint, the reduction of the symptomatic COVID-19 disease and has multiple additional
secondary endpoints as we disclosed in our press announcement last week that cover whether you get infected at all and various other measures.
And so this is -- you know, vaccine development has significant precedent and there are best practices, certainly in the U.S. that the F.D.A. has
laid out in their guidance of what they expect to see in Phase 3 trials.
So I'm quite sure that any of the companies including Moderna that carries out a focus on Phase 3 trial will be able to get the kind of data that
supports both a safety claim and an efficacy claim.
As to the speculation out there, understandably, about how long will these antibodies last? How much of them do we need, et cetera, I think some of
this will be known as in any other disease and vaccine over a much longer period of time. And yet, that has not kept us in the vaccine world to
actually launch vaccines in the sense of whether it will last for five years or one year or 10 years -- that matters.
But the only way of finding out is actually doing the experiment, and so there are things that you can know ahead of using the vaccine and there are
some things that you will learn in its full deployment over time.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, they are called first class problems, it's got to get to the point of having a vaccine first. Moderna has confirmed that you're in
talks with the E.U. with regards to supplying vaccines to E.U. nations. Can you give us any further details, any progress on those negotiations?
AFEYAN: I can't add to what's already been publicly said just due to the nature -- the confidential nature of these discussions. But I think what
you can see is that countries are in blocs and individually in some cases, looking to see what they can secure and what's the combination of vaccine
supply that suits their particular desires and needs and when they engage in agreements.
[09:25:24]
AFEYAN: These agreements, some of the agreements are intended to be -- to involve early participation, prepayments and assisting the very development
of vaccine. For example, as you know, in the U.S., there's a substantial government level investment made in the vaccine.
In other countries, I think people are assessing just how much they lean in ahead of the vaccines availability and to what extent one waits until the
vaccine is fully tested and available. Of course, you know, one can't predict whether there will be one vaccine, five vaccines or 25 vaccines in
the fullness of time.
And depending on what assumptions you make, then you may want to secure early supply or you may not, and I think those discussions are actively
ongoing.
I could say that our interactions have all been very productive. And it really is about data, and it's about supply and production scales, et
cetera.
Look, I'll also say as I said, last time, we're in the camp of believing that multiple vaccines is what humanity needs to fight this disease,
because none of the parties, despite announcements are actually going to be able to produce the quantities needed for the challenge that we're facing.
And so the best way to get there is to have multiple approaches, and the vaccine get out as quickly as possible to those who need it.
The other thing I'll just address is that, you know, these vaccines may well have different performance. There may be different levels of
protection, and different levels of side effects and we're not going to know that until later this fall or early next year, and at that time, it
may be too late to secure supply because obviously people are trying to secure it now.
So a very interesting kind of multicomponent optimization that people are doing and we're doing our best to provide them the data and the information
as much as we have it.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, you're clearly juggling a lot of priorities to your point, you have to raise money, you need financing in order to be able to
do the research. That then ties to who gets priority and who you negotiate with.
You pointed out the United States have provided a lot of money. What about the poorer nations? Are you negotiating with any of those and who
represents them and how as a company, do you look at that? Because there are countries out there that are going to need a vaccine, too, and their
ability to negotiate, money, et cetera is highly challenging.
Where does Moderna stand on that?
AFEYAN: As I think is well known, there are entities that have been created through CEPI, which is a multi-party entity, and others, the GAVI, a
coalition that really addresses this issue for low to middle income countries, broadly speaking.
And I think that there are discussions that are ongoing with multiple vaccine suppliers, including Moderna, as to when and to what extent the
supply will be secured by those countries. And of course, they're in the process of also securing funding to be able to meet that demand.
And so I think that'll be -- that's definitely part of our target, our intention to make sure that our vaccine and the potencies is going to
deliver and is made available very broadly. And the good news is we have counterparties.
I mean, it would be a daunting challenge for a company like us, which does not operate in hundreds of countries as some of the large pharmaceutical
companies do to be able to get the vaccine to so many different places, but we're very pleased that there are intermediaries that are filling both the
funding and distribution challenges and we plan to work with them.
CHATTERLEY: Perfect. As long as the discussion is being had, I'm happy.
Noubar, great to have you with us. Please stay in touch.
AFEYAN: Yes, very much so.
CHATTERLEY: The Chairman of Moderna there. Sir, we'll speak to you again soon. Thank you and thanks again to your team for the hard work.
All right, the opening bell is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:32:25]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where U.S. stocks are searching for direction in early trading this morning. I know tech stocks aren't seeing
gains. Tech firms in fact found themselves in the unusual role of Wall Street laggards last week with the NASDAQ falling more than one percent as
you can see.
Netflix shares tumbled some six and a half percent on Friday; under pressure again today following their earnings, so they really set the tone.
Plenty to come this week to keep an eye on, too. The likes of Microsoft and IBM.
All right, in the meantime, another top priority, Congress back to work and ready to tackle the next Emergency Aid Bill with just days to go before the
enhanced benefits runs out for millions of unemployed Americans.
Major differences remain and weeks of negotiations appear to lie ahead. The need for a robust fiscal response highlighted by the latest weekly jobless
claims reports. Florida, Georgia and California all seeing big jumps in people seeking assistance as COVID cases spike and businesses begin
shutting down again.
Congressman Brad Sherman joins us from Washington to talk about the outlook for aid. He is also the Chairman of the House Financial Services
Subcommittee on investor protection, which has just launched an investigation into popular trading app Robinhood.
Congressman, great to have you with us and clearly, plenty to discuss. I want to start by talking about further financial aid. What are the red
lines for the Democrats here upon which you won't back down?
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D-CA): I think everything is on the table, but -- and red lines are not always red lines. But I think it's critical to us that we
have aid for individuals, aid for cities, states and school districts.
I think the one thing the Republicans will demand is liability protection. The President is asking for payroll tax relief, but neither Democrats nor
Republicans are really embracing that as the most efficient way to get aid to people who need it.
CHATTERLEY: What about the $600.00 bump up in benefits on a weekly basis? For many, it's been seen as a lifeline. It's been spent according to a lot
of the data out there, but the Republicans are saying it's a disincentive to work. How hard are you going to cling on to that?
SHERMAN: I think we'll push very hard to extend it in length. Whether we get the full $600.00 amount is up for negotiation, but I don't think we
would come out of this and just tell everybody, boom, it's August 1st, and you have nothing in the way of extra unemployment insurance.
[09:35:06]
CHATTERLEY: Something that the House Democrats have already agreed on is more money for testing and for tracing technology. There appears to be
disagreement between Republicans now and the White House over providing more money for this.
Surely, this should be a priority whether you're a Democrat or Republican.
SHERMAN: Clearly, Republicans understand it. Democrats understand it. The President somehow believes that if you don't test and you don't discover
the cases that the cases aren't there.
For him, it's not about curing the disease, it is -- or tracing the disease or minimizing the disease, it is about minimizing the numbers on the theory
that that will get him reelected. That's absolutely crazy.
What's also important in this bill, although it's a small piece of the Democratic Bill, is to have at least $5 billion for medical research.
That's still less than one quarter of one percent of the Bill. But we still do need additional treatments.
There are so many questions about this disease where you ask experts and they say we haven't -- we don't know yet. We hope someday to do the test,
to do the research and answer that question.
So we do need to beat the disease and that requires testing, tracing and researching.
CHATTERLEY: Congressman, very quickly, do you think something can be agreed in the next 10 days?
SHERMAN: I think there's pressure on our leaders to get it done in the next 10 days, because members are from all over the country and members are
reluctant to get on airplanes these days.
Most of us will be flying home in early August, but other than that, you know, it seems to be more on track for a mid-August solution. So we'll see.
I hope very much that we get something done in the month of July.
CHATTERLEY: So it does push into mid-August, though, there are going to be people that have been receiving this bump up in benefits that will simply
lose it.
SHERMAN: That would be one of the many, many reasons why we really need to get this done in the next two weeks. But the parties are pretty far apart.
Usually to come that distance takes more than two weeks, we'll see whether the pressure from our constituents, which I think everybody knows, and the
additional pressure from the members, which I just eliminated will push our leaders toward getting a solution in two weeks.
CHATTERLEY: Let's move on and talk about the Robinhood app. How do you view this app firstly, Congressman Sherman? Do you see it as democratizing
access to financial markets and what protections do you think investors need?
SHERMAN: Well, investors need an awful lot more protection. There's a lot - - a lot of apps and a lot of discount brokers, et cetera that certainly make it easy to invest. There is -- I think it's Fidelity who is saying
hey, you could invest in a stock for $5.00.
So it's pretty all democratic now, but what we don't want to see is ignoring the rules. You shouldn't be giving somebody a margin account
without determining that they're suitable for the margin account. That is the rule imposed by FINRA, and in this case, it seems to have been ignored.
Second, I think that we ought to have a situation where margin accounts are what we call non-recourse, that is to say, if you put money in your
account, you can't owe the brokerage company more money, and that ought to be the rule for the regular retail investors.
To get a statement from your broker saying, you've lost everything. If you engage in a risky strategy, maybe that could happen, but to get a statement
from your broker saying, as this one from the modality seems to imply, you owe us $970,000.00 -- that should never happen.
CHATTERLEY: So, provided individuals that simply can't afford to trade on margin have restrictions and people are educated on the kind of products
that they're investing in, you are happy for individuals that otherwise would not have been able to get access to financial markets using this
product.
SHERMAN: Well, this product first seems to automatically put you in a margin account, which is in violation of the rules. They've got to
determine you're suitable before they give you a margin account.
This platform seems to push you toward the riskiest trades involving options. That is not for a normal investor to get involved in, certainly
not at the beginning of their investing experience.
So no, this option is pushing people toward high risk, in violation of the rules and in violation of commonsense.
CHATTERLEY: Congressman, are you in favor of a ban on this product then until these issues are cleared up?
SHERMAN: Well, clearly when you say this product they can modify it.
CHATTERLEY: I mean the app -- Robinhood app.
SHERMAN: The Robinhood app can be modified to comply with the rules. Until it complies with the rules, it shouldn't be used.
Under no circumstances should they be giving people margin accounts without determining they are suitable for merchant accounts, and this app doesn't
seem to do that.
And I think if we look at the app, this is a firm that is 10 times as much of its business that is coming from these high risk option trading and
sometimes double, you know, options on both sides, straddles, et cetera.
So this is an app that seems to be used with margin whether you're suited suitable or not -- options, whether it's suitable or not, and options
trading on margin for inexperienced investors, with no particular suitability.
So I think this app needs a lot of changes.
CHATTERLEY: We shall have to get Robinhood on to respond to that. But Congressman, great to get your insights and thoughts on this and we will
track the progress.
Congressman Brad Sherman, fantastic to have you on the show, sir. Thank you for joining us.
SHERMAN: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: All right, still to come on FIRST MOVE, technology is the service of beating the pandemic. India looks to its contact tracing app to
contain new infections. We will speak to the head of the team behind it, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show, India has recorded 40,000 new confirmed cases of COVID-19, its highest daily increase. The country has
had a million confirmed infections, the third highest in fact in the world.
In order to contain the outbreak, the Indian government developed a contact tracing app. It helps determine if you came into contact with someone with
COVID in the previous 14 days, and tells you that the likelihood that you're also affected based on that data.
The government says more than 100 million people have downloaded the app so far. Abhishek Singh is the CEO of MyGov at India's Ministry of Electronics
and IT and they created the app.
[09:45:09]
CHATTERLEY: Sir, fantastic to have you on the show. A hundred million people plus have already downloaded this app, 500 million people, I believe
have smartphones. That's pretty good work so far.
ABHISHEK SINGH, CEO, MYGOV: Yes, I must say it's now 145 million plus people who are using that. Yes, and there are 500 million smartphones in
India. So this is still like, it doesn't cover the entire population, but it does help in doing effective contact racing, local contact racing, as
well as since our app gets local data as well as the location data, we are able to identify hotspots as well as emerging hotspots, which are more
likely to see a surge in cases in the coming days.
Based on the time that people spend whoever tested positive, there are places where they've spent time in the previous 14 days, we are able to
predict 10 days in advance, which are the likely areas where containment measures or restrictions need to be put.
So, that has really helped in controlling the spread of the virus in the bigger cities like New Delhi, Mumbai, Ahmedabad and these cities are past
their peak, and this has helped in containing it.
Now, of course, we are seeing a surge in cases outside of the big metros and there are smaller states involved, it seems that this is going to help
us in ensuring that even if people get infected, they are detected in time and effective measures are taken by the health authorities so that our
fatality rates remain low, which are actually the lowest in the world.
CHATTERLEY: And I read as well that you've got a 23 percent positive rate. So the people that you identify as potentially at risk, just under a
quarter of them actually get a positive test results. So you clearly are using the tool to identify people that have been exposed and then have
caught this, but there'll be a lot of people looking now and listening to you and saying what about the people that don't own smartphones? You've
only got what? What for them?
SINGH: See, what we did was that of course, there are a lot of large number of people in India, like almost 500 million people who do not have
smartphones. So for them what we did was that for feature phones, we launched what we call it as a 1921 Aarogya Setu service in which they can
give a missed call on a toll free number, and then they get a call back.
And then the IVRS module takes them through the same symptom checker that is there on the contact tracing app. So that allows them to give their
symptoms and in case the system detects that there is somebody who is using a feature phone and he is showing some symptoms, that information along
with his location is shared with the health authorities in that geography.
And then the medical teams or the health teams go and offer him help, whether it's testing or whether it is caution or whether it is quarantine,
but whatever is required, help is extended to them.
Yes, we are not able to do to group contact tracing or the app like features are not possible for feature phones, but yes, it does help in
containing the spread of the virus, even for those who do not have smartphones.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. So that at least there are other options that you're working on here as well. Abhishek, what about data privacy? One of the big
stumbling blocks that we found in the United States in the U.K. is people's data. How protected is people's data with this app?
SINGH: See, the app when you design, you design with a privacy first policy, so what we do is that we have built in certain features, which
ensures that privacy is not violated in any case.
So the way it works is that all data of your contact tracing data remains on your phone for all users who have not been detected -- who have not been
found COVID positive.
Only in case somebody is found COVID-19 positive, his data is pushed to the server and that information with regard to who all he has come in contact
in the previous 14 days that information is also shared only with health authorities, with only with the expressed purpose of giving them the alert
or giving them the information with regard to taking precautions or quarantining them or isolating them. This data is not used for any other
purpose.
There are also norms defined with regard to how long the data will remain. So all data with regard to people who are not detected positive will be
deleted -- auto deleted in 30 days.
For those people who are found COVID-19 positive, it remains there for 60 days. The maximum is 60 days.
So all these safeguards have been built in to ensure that there is no violation of any kind of private data in any case.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, that makes perfect sense to me. You delete the data, if these people don't test positive and you get rid of it almost immediately,
Abhishek, because I am running out of time. How long did it take you to create this app? And have you spoken to any other nations perhaps about
helping them develop a contact tracing app because it might be really helpful.
SINGH: This app was developed in in a period of 15 days flat and it was a classic example where in the best of Indian technical minds from industry,
from startups, from academia, they came together with the government and built this app and it was launched in the 2nd of April.
It got 50 million downloads in 13 days, which was the fastest for any search app. I was told we beat the record of Pokemon Go.
And then we reached hundred million in no time and now we are touching or going to be around 150 million.
And then a lot of other countries have approached us. We have had discussions with Bangladesh. United Kingdom also wanted to know about our
backend algorithms, and we are part of a global community. We have had discussions with Australia.
So certain states in the United States have also approached us with regard to how it is working, understanding the epidemiological basis.
CHATTERLEY: I am glad to here it.
SINGH: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Fantastic. We will get you back on to discuss this further because I do have to wrap up the conversation here, but fantastic work, you
and your team and yes, flying the flag tracing around the world.
SINGH: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Abhishek Singh there, the CEO of MyGov India. Thank you so much, sir, for joining us on that.
SINGH: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: We are back after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:53:14]
CHATTERLEY: The global race for a vaccine takes us to the U.K. now where Anna Stewart joins us with all the details. Anna, what have you got for us?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, we just got the results of the combined Phase 1 and Phase 2 results of the vaccine being developed by the
University of Oxford in partnership with AstraZeneca. We're expecting to get these results today.
The reason this is so crucial and I'll tell you, there are many vaccine -- candidate vaccines being developed around the world, over 140 now. This is
one of the front runners. This is one of just three that are already in Phase 3 of human trials.
Phase 1 results show they say that there was a strong antibody and T-cell immune response for over thousand adults who participated in this study.
This is really crucial. We're seeing a growing body of evidence that not only are antibodies very important for immunity, but so are T-cells. It
might have much more longevity in terms of protecting people for years as opposed to months.
They did a subset study of just 10 participants with a second dose and those immune responses were stronger there.
The last good news, but this is not uncommon, there are side effects with this vaccine. There have been with all of the candidate vaccines that have
had their Phase 1 test and have published them so far. No adverse or serious side effects from the vaccine. That is one of those crucial things,
you look for Phase 1 and Phase 2.
Phase 3, as I said, is already underway here in the U.K., South Africa and Brazil with a rate of infection that is a bit higher, and that is crucial
to see whether there are any very rare side effects in a huge population of people, 10,000 people in that study, and also in real terms, not in a test
tube, does it protect people from getting the virus?
CHATTERLEY: So what next, Anna?
STEWART: So that Phase 3 is underway already. They've really sped up this process and you can see that from the combined phasing that they're doing
with this testing. Should that all go well, should this get regulatory approval, what you could see is being one of the very first vaccines that
could be available around the world.
[09:55:13]
STEWART: Now, I know you've spoken to the AstraZeneca CEO. He has told us before that they are ready to churn out this vaccine as early as September.
They were planning to make around 400 million doses by the end of this year, two billion overall, by the end of next year.
They have supply chains at their ready. They have agreements in place, so that this vaccine could be distributed to the U.K., Europe, U.S., India as
well as developing nations through GAVI and CEFI -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating. So many questions still about this, but so much hope, too. Anna Stewart, great job on that.
Thank you so much with that breaking it news there.
All right, let me give you a quick look of what we're seeing for the markets as we continue out through the session watching the E.U. of course
as well. Those negotiations, fourth day of negotiations set to begin within the next few minutes or so, can they come up with some kind of financial
aid package?
A little bit softer here, though the NASDAQ is outperforming and that's it for us.
Richard is back with QUEST MEANS BUSINESS later on this afternoon, but for now, that's it for FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe. I'll see
you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
