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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Revelations On How Much Tax The President Pays And How Much Money He Owes; TikTok, The Chinese App Gets A Download Ban Reprieve; China's Biggest Chipmaker, SMIC, Hit With A U.S. Export Restriction. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired September 28, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:15]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need-to-know.
Trump's taxes. Revelations on how much tax the President pays and how much money he owes.
TikTok ticks on. The Chinese app gets a download ban reprieve.
SMIC smacked. China biggest chipmaker hit with a U.S. export restriction.
And --
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
CHATTERLEY: The show must come on. The creative non-profit keeping culture alive during COVID.
It's Monday. Let's make a move.
A warm welcome to FIRST MOVE. A pleasure to be with you, as always. And I'm very excited about dancing through the next hour. We've got the President
of Microsoft, Brad Smith coming up shortly to talk about the firm's latest plans to protect the planet, and perhaps a sneaky question or two on TikTok
coming up as well.
For now though, we're headed for a solidly higher open on Wall Street ahead of what could be filled with a week of wildcards. Let me explain what I
mean. W for the winding down of the third quarter and the start of the fourth quarter trading this week.
I stands for IPOs and direct listings. Data software giant, PLANTIA set to launch midweek. L, it's for labor. We've got the last U.S. Jobs Report
before the November elections out this Friday. And D, of course, the debate. The first Biden-Trump showdown takes place tomorrow night here in
the U.S.
Our wild week follows a choppy one, too, for stocks. Last week, the NASDAQ rising over one percent Friday, but the S&P saw its fourth straight weekly
decline, actually, it was two percent, Friday, wasn't it? It was one percent on the week.
The majority still sitting on solid gains for Q3 overall, but year-to-date charts clearly show momentum stalling for the past month, and that's a
global story.
Take a look at that chart. We're searching for direction after dramatic stimulus fueled recoveries, at least in stock markets around the world. The
question is, now what?
In Europe, banks are leading the charge with HSBC up 9.5 percent. The Chinese insurance firm, Ping An raising its stake in the company. Context,
though key. HSBC still down some 50 percent year-to-date.
In Asia, china's biggest chipmaker SMIC fell almost four percent on fears that it could lose access to U.S. technology, all of the details on that in
just a moment because we are going to begin today's drivers talking taxes.
Thirty six days to go until the U.S. Presidential election and "The New York Times" reporting what it calls years of tax avoidance by President
Trump and chronic financial losses for his businesses. It says he paid just $750.00 in income taxes in the year he won the presidency. President Trump,
meanwhile, calls it fake news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, basically, well first of all, I paid a lot and I paid a lot of state income taxes, too. The New York
State charges a lot and I paid a lot of money to the state.
It will all be revealed. It's going to come out. But after the auditors -- after they -- I am being -- they're doing their assessment. We have been
negotiating for a long time. Things get settled, like in the I.R.S. But right now when you're under audit, you don't do it, you don't do that.
So we're under audit, but the story is a total fake and all of this, you know, we had the same exact questions usually asked by the same people, and
that took place four years ago. You remember.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Joe Johns is at the White House for us. John, I'm not sure this gave us anything more than what was already expected. He pays little taxes.
He hemorrhages money in parts of his business and he takes huge write- downs. This is what "The New York Times" is saying.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly correct, and one of the biggest takeaways, I think, from this reporting in "The New York
Times," they say there's more that's going to come out, is that he takes business losses and those losses essentially absolve him from paying income
tax.
You gave most of the top lines there, but one of the most interesting things that you see in this report is the fact that the President continues
to be engaged in this audit with the United States government, over $72 million refund he took in 2010 on his taxes, essentially wiping out any of
the tax he paid in 2006 through 2008.
So the question is whether or not that is legitimate, and if it is found to not be legitimate, the President could well owe $100 million in taxes.
That's another big takeaway.
[09:05:30]
JOHNS: But probably the most important thing for the purposes of politics in the United States right now is that the image of Donald Trump as an
extremely successful and wealthy businessman is now in question and it's something that is very likely to come up in the debate just tomorrow night,
as well as something that will be part of the American political conversation all the way up to Election Day.
CHATTERLEY: And I am sure the President will say what he said back in the debates in 2016 when Hillary Clinton tackled him on his taxes and she said
you don't pay tax and he said, yes, that's because I'm smart.
This is legal tax avoidance. You have profits somewhere and you have losses somewhere else and you net them off and pay very little. The key question,
Joe is, does it change the minds of voters in any way?
JOHNS: And probably not, quite frankly, because there's a very small amount of the electorate, probably only about five percent by some estimates, that
has not made up its mind about who they are going to vote for coming up this election.
So that small group is what the two sides might be fighting for. Otherwise, the supporters of the President are entrenched in their positions and the
people who are opposed to the President, the critics of the President, who are going to vote against him won't have their minds changed. Their minds
were already made up -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we'll reiterate, the President says it's fake news and the way to address it and underscore it is to release the tax returns and
prove it. Joe Johns at the White House there for us, thank you so much.
A U.S. ban on TikTok downloads has been averted for now. An order that would have kicked out of app stores in the United States on Sunday was
temporarily suspended by a U.S. Federal Judge. Selina Wang joins me now.
A further stay of execution. The story never ends, Selina, but it's not over yet. It's a temporary reprieve, so explain what's going on.
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, this is just a temporary sigh of relief, a temporary victory for TikTok. The ban is averted for now, but
this ruling from the judge does not block this November 12th date in which another set of restrictions are set to go in place that would yet again,
effectively ban TikTok.
But what this does do is buy a little bit more time for this company to get approval from U.S. and Chinese regulators for that potential deal with
Walmart and Oracle. If that is successful, in time, this entire ban could be averted.
But we were talking about this on Friday, Julia, and the same sticking point still remains. This question around: who is going to own TikTok?
Trump has said he is not going to approve a deal unless Americans have control of it. But the companies involved themselves can't seem to agree on
the answer to this question.
Oracle said ByteDance is not going to have any stake in the new entity that will be created, TikTok Global. Meanwhile, ByteDance says, it's going to
have 80 percent control of it.
But again, TikTok can take a temporary sigh of relief. The company had said in court filings that it was facing catastrophic economic loss. In fact, it
said that even if it were just banned for two months, that as many as half of its American users would never come back.
CHATTERLEY: Wow. That was the justification. I guess that's based on modelling from what they saw in India with the ban over there. That's a
fascinating argument.
Selina, this whole thing has been so messy. You have a beautiful phrase for it, which is whack-a-mole and at the heart of it is American data
protection and security. That's what we have to keep in mind about this deal. Whatever happens is American data protected?
WANG: Absolutely. I think all of this drama, the back and forth, the talk of this mess really gets away from the underlying question that really
started all of this, which is, is TikTok a national security risk? The Trump administration clearly making the argument this entire time that it
does pose that risk.
But experts say that this doesn't address that core problem, the underlying issue here is that America doesn't adequately protect personal data. They
say that the way to get at this is, instead of singling out particular companies and playing whack-a-mole, instead the Trump administration should
be focused on creating universal standards and legislation that govern data collection and data use for companies across the board from countries
around the world.
Even tech companies that directly compete with TikTok are criticizing the Trump administration's approach. So net choice is this trade group that
represents companies like Facebook, Google and Amazon, they put out a statement saying that, quote, "There is no previous example in U.S. history
of a complete ban on a media platform that deprives a quarter of the U.S. population access to information on that platform."
The group also warned that this ban could also give reason for other governments around the world to bar American companies from market access.
Some experts say it is essentially making a blueprint for how foreign governments can block giant tech companies under the guise of national
security.
[09:10:32]
WANG: So Julia, the stakes here are extremely high, the outcome of this would not only set the tone for the future of U.S.-China relations, but
also potentially change the course of the global internet.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating, isn't it? Net Choice's statement on this doesn't surprise me because they have a vested interest to allow as much
access as possible and I couldn't agree more with you on the blanket standards here, but let's control American businesses before you worry
about everybody else, I mean, we can't do that. So Selina, I'll see you in 10 years when we solve all of that and we'll discuss it.
Yes, skeptic here. Thank you for that.
All right, China's biggest chipmaker reportedly in the cross hairs, too, amid tensions between Beijing and Washington. Shares of SMIC closed nearly
four percent lower in Hong Kong after reports that it could lose access to key U.S. technology.
Sherisse Pham is in Hong Kong for us, too. Sherisse, great to have you with us. We can't underscore the importance, I think, enough of this company for
China's chip making ambitions. Sanctions on this company would be huge.
SHERISSE PHAM, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Sanctions on SMIC would be a really, really lethal blow to China's chip making ambitions. SMIC is already behind
when it comes to the industry leaders that are making advance semiconductors and let's not forget that semiconductors really are the
building blocks for the technology that we all have, that we all have in our pockets, that power our laptops and power connected cars and power our
smart speakers.
They're at the heart of the future of technology and advanced technology and both China and Washington want to control those technologies. China,
unfortunately, is losing this battle. So SMIC under pressure today after reports that it could be facing sanctions and could lose access to key U.S.
technology.
Now, the Commerce Department reportedly has sent a letter to companies saying that there is an unacceptable risk that exports to SMIC could be
used for military purposes. Now, SMIC telling me today that it's not aware of this letter that's being sent around and that's being reported and
reiterating again that its semiconductors are only used for civilian purposes and commercial purposes and it has no ties to the Chinese
military.
So, you know, for now, it appears that SMIC might not be added to the entity list. Let's not forget the entity list is a really terrible trade
black list that companies do not want to get on. That's the one that Washington added Huawei to and Huawei's global business has been crippled
ever since.
But analysts saying that it might not be necessary to even add SMIC to that entity list because if Washington simply says that SMIC products could be
used for military purposes, that could be enough to require U.S. companies to apply for export licenses to supply SMIC and that would really weigh
heavily on the company's advancement and the company's ability to manufacture semiconductors going forward -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and huge implications for clients like Qualcomm as well here in the United States. Sherisse Pham, great to have you with us. Thank
you for that.
All right, these are some of the other stories making headlines around the world.
The world approaching another grime milestone in the fight against coronavirus pandemic. The global death toll is expected to reach one
million in the coming hours. Currently, there are more than 998,000 deaths from the virus worldwide.
Tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan are flaring over a disputed region. Both sides accusing the other of deadly attacks that began over the
weekend. The region at the center of the conflict is internationally recognized as part of -- of being part of Azerbaijan, but it is governed by
a majority group of ethnic Armenians.
The two former Soviet Republics previously fought a war over the land. It ended with a Russian brokered ceasefire in 1994.
All right, coming up here on FIRST MOVE, we're talking water and the Cloud. Microsoft's President, Brad Smith, on the show to explain their latest
major environmental pledge.
And no audience, no income, until now, that is. How one New York nonprofit took steps to find its way around COVID? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:17:37]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where stocks are green premarket and on track to rise for a third straight session. Actually, we're approaching
almost two percent, as you can see gains premarket for the NASDAQ.
Movers today include people mover, Uber. Shares are set to rise some four percent after winning back its operating license in London. The court says
it is satisfied Uber is addressing long-standing security concerns.
Deal making in the news, too. Caesars Entertainment in talks to buy U.K. based bookmaker, William Hill in a deal worth some $3.7 billion. Hill
shares soared on deal speculation, Friday. They have pulled back some 11 percent today.
Microsoft, in focus, making another bold environmental pledge. It's promising to replenish more clean water than it uses, so becoming water
positive in its direct operations within a decade. It is just the latest climate related promise from the firm that includes becoming carbon
negative by 2030 and that means removing more carbon from the atmosphere than it generates.
It's also promoting more biodiversity, reducing waste and is running a climate innovation fund.
Brad Smith is the President of Microsoft and he joins us now. Brad, always fantastic to have you on the show. I know you feel the same as I do. No
matter how pressing the short-term problems, and clearly COVID-19 is vast, we cannot let the focus slip on addressing climate change and I think
that's the message, once again, from Microsoft.
BRAD SMITH, PRESIDENT, MICROSOFT: Absolutely, Julia, and it is good to be with you. And as you and I were talking, when the year began, every month,
every quarter there are different issues. COVID is the issue of the year. I still think climate and sustainability is the issue of the decade and
beyond, so we cannot let up all the work that needs to be done.
CHATTERLEY: So talk to me about this positive water pledge, because your footprint is vast and I read the whole release. I mean, it is a sweeping
journey from California to Israel, to India, in terms of the project that you're embarking on here.
SMITH: Yes, as you said, what we committed to do is be water positive by the end of the decade and that first requires we reduce the amount of water
that we consume. We consume a lot, 4.2 million cubic meters a year.
[09:20:03]
SMITH: What we've learned already is there is a lot that we can do to reduce that. In areas like Puget Sound where there's a lot of rain, we can
harvest rain water. In a place like Israel where it's an arid and hotter climate, we're actually going to use the water that is produced as a
byproduct from our air-conditioning to water all of the plants on our campus.
And we're going to be building and putting in place wastewater treatment plants on our large campuses to recycle water. But we also need to do more
than that and that's where the replenishment side comes in.
It means that we'll be investing in projects to restore wetlands and the like, to reduce the impact of asphalt, which stops water from going back
into the ground. So we'll cut our consumption and invest in replenishment. That's how we'll welcome water positive.
CHATTERLEY: I think the key take-away from you though is it's just not all about you. It's about harnessing your suppliers, bringing your clients on
board. I mean, one of the names that we've spoken about before, Ecolab, using data and their technology to help others become more water efficient.
To what extent is this about building a template, perhaps? A roadmap that other companies that perhaps have less deep pockets as Microsoft, in order
that you've perhaps made the mistakes and say, look, this is the template. Now you can follow what we've done and improve yours, too?
SMITH: I think the world does need a template and one of the great things that we are able to do is frankly learn from a lot of other companies.
Ecolab is a great example of a company that's probably taught us more than we'll ever be able to share with them back.
But if there's a thread that runs through everything from say carbon to water to waste, it really is the power of data. You can't reduce what you
can't measure and I think where we come in as a tech company is more technology that everyone can use to measure the carbon that they're
emitting, the water that they're consuming, the waste that they're putting out, and then we can work together.
And that's what we're seeing. It's really the power of coalitions, whether it is to address water or waste. You see more companies, independent of
governments, just stepping forward and saying we know we need to do this, let's do it together.
CHATTERLEY: Okay, Brad, you mentioned the magic word there, which was coalition. Again, one of the standout statistics for me, 150 of the world's
biggest companies have the potential to influence one-third of global freshwater use.
You were just one of seven companies that said, look, we're going to build the Water Resilient Coalition, come together to try and address this. How
many companies do you have now and what is the ethos of that?
SMITH: Well, I think we're at a point now where we're in the dozens in most of these instances. But I guess what has encouraged me most about 2020,
Julia, is how this is gaining momentum even in a year where people are facing so many other challenges, and we've deliberately started with the
companies that want to really lean in. They're typically at the forefront of their field. They want to innovate and we can all innovate together.
I think we're then going to see these coalitions grow quickly, perhaps more than anything else, because that's what consumers want, and as we all know,
companies have to respond to their customers.
CHATTERLEY: Am I being impatient when I mentioned the word 150 and then you mention the teens? Am I being impatient given the backdrop this year, Brad
or do, to your point, we, as customers need to push harder?
SMITH: Well, I think we should all be impatient. We don't really have time to lose when it comes to addressing the sustainability of the planet and I
think we should look to a future, not just a couple of years, but every year where we're constantly getting better. And I think we should look to a
future where it is as easy for a consumer to pick up a product and know, for example, how much carbon was emitted to create it as it is to go to the
grocery store and see how many calories you'll consume if you eat it.
We can empower consumers with data in that kind of transparency.
CHATTERLEY: That's such a great idea. Yes, this is going to cost you X number of calories and this is what it costs in terms of carbon footprint.
I want to move on because it is a great thing and you can come back and track progress with us.
But I do want to talk about TikTok. I can only imagine what kind of summer you and CEO, Satya had trying to negotiate this deal. Are you in some way,
relieved, given the complexity of it to be out of it?
SMITH: Well, it was an all-consuming summer for a few of us at Microsoft, which is a way of saying there was no summer. We came away, frankly, with
an enormous appreciation for TikTok as a service, for the importance of its users, and I think frankly, for two things.
[09:25:10]
SMITH: One is really creating a model that would do for TikTok users what they want, what they need and love about the service, while protecting
national security, preserving privacy, protecting digital safety, authenticity, transparency and the like. And we learned a lot by working
with ByteDance to fashion that model.
Now, obviously we were disappointed when ByteDance went in a different direction. We were disappointed, but we couldn't pursue this with Walmart
because I just think they're a tremendously important company when we think about the future of e-commerce.
But I think there's a second thing that we'll all continue to follow and I think Microsoft will probably contribute to in other ways.
We do need a new technology model so that technology that is created in, say, China and comes to the United States or that's created in the United
States and goes to China, can do so in a way that benefits consumers, but really satisfies the need for trust around security and privacy and the
like.
And this is a bit of a roller coaster for all of us, but I hope that as we continue to traverse it, we'll see that kind of model emerge.
CHATTERLEY: I like the idea of a model for protecting data in whichever country, but also the relationship over technology between the two nations
going forward.
I will never be forgiven by the gaming enthusiasts among my friends and colleagues if I didn't ask you about the Bethesda Softworks deal,
obviously, a gaming software company as part of the $7.5 billion deal with ZeniMax Media.
Brad, talk to me about the vision for gaming and just to add on to that. Can you tell me if any of these games will be exclusive to Xbox and the PC
in the future? You see, I was given that question.
SMITH: Yes, we won't talk today about which titles will be on which platform, but I think your question about the vision is the right one.
Interestingly enough, we kicked off the TikTok and the Bethesda ZeniMax negotiations at precisely the same time and we were really delighted to
reach this agreement with ZeniMax and bring Bethesda into the Microsoft family.
We have a new console coming out in the coming months. It really is a cutting-edge piece of technology for not just the tens, but hundreds of
millions of people around the world that enjoy gaming. We'll have a broader portfolio of games than ever before.
And our vision in part is that you'll be able to play a game on any platform that's part of our xCloud Initiative, whether it's on a phone or
PC or a console, and you'll be able to get a subscription that will give you access to many, many more of the games than you would otherwise have.
And so what you really see us doing is broadening the opportunity for people to participate in what is one of the world's greatest entertainment
and leisure time activities and is continuing to grow rapidly.
CHATTERLEY: That's fantastic. You win some, you lose some. I guess that's - -
SMITH: That's the lesson.
CHATTERLEY: And you lose your summer in the process. Brad, great to have you on. Thank you so much, once again, and we love the focus on the climate
and protecting our planet, and a beautiful library behind you as well.
SMITH: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Gorgeous.
SMITH: Oh, thank you. See you soon.
CHATTERLEY: Brad Smith, there -- see you soon -- President of Microsoft.
All right, the market opens next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:31:40]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. U.S. stocks are up and running for the second to last trading day of the third quarter and we're beginning the
week with strong gains as you can see for the major averages. Investors hoping to hear news on both sides and stimulus in the coming days and
weeks.
Hope floats. U.S. House Democrats looking to pass a more than $2 trillion emergency aid bill as soon as this week. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin
says negotiations could begin again soon and we should begin getting updated vaccine trial data within the next few weeks, too. So we're looking
for silver linings to the clouds at this moment.
COVID-19 has changed the behaviors of so many of us around the globe. Handshakes are out, outdoor dining is in and more of us are turning to
cashless transactions by a growing number of Fintech firms.
One of the leading players is Chime. It's now valued at some $14.5 billion. That's higher than even the online trading sensation Robinhood. Chime is a
Fintech and online payments firm that aims to offer basic financial services for free.
And I'm pleased to say, joining us now, the CEO and co-founder of Chime, Chris Britt.
Chris, fantastic to have you with us. We will talk about that valuation, but first, just give us the premise of what Chime offers to its customers.
CHRIS BRITT, CEO AND CO-FOUNDER, CHIME: Well, you had a great lead-in, thank you for that. We believe that basic banking services should be free
and truly aligned with consumers' best interests.
And especially given the pandemic and everything that's going on around the world right now, so many consumers have a lot of anxiety around their money
and just making ends meet.
So we have a mission around helping our members achieve financial peace of mind and we do that with a checking account, a high yield savings account
and a debit card, and more recently a credit card, that will allow people to manage all of their daily finances.
CHATTERLEY: Okay, so let's say I take out a credit card, a debit card, I've got an account with you, but I go into overdraft. What fees am I going to
incur?
BRITT: Well, right, so we offer these banking services. Chime is actually not a bank. We have a couple of bank partners that actually hold the
deposits, and in partnership -- and these are regulated by the FDIC and the United States regulatory bodies.
With Chime, if you take the account into a negative state, we'll actually allow you to take it up to $100.00 negative without charging you an
overdraft fee. Most major financial institutions in America would charge you $35.00 for each of those individual transactions that you're negative
and the numbers are in the tens of billions of dollars a year that consumers are paying for really these small dollar transactions.
So we do a few things to help people with short-term liquidity. We let them take the account negative without charging them a fee and then we also, if
you sign up for payroll direct deposit, we give you access to the funds a couple of days early. So people love that combination of services.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and you made this very important point that you're not a bank. You just have the support of those in order to make deposits and it
is $11 billion, I believe, the amount that banks took for overdraft fees in 2019. It's an astonishing amount of money, and obviously, there's a debate
going on behind-the-scenes about whether that's right or not.
You also allow people to get access to stimulus payments when the financial aid came through from the U.S. government more quickly than we have seen
for others. Explain how that worked, because this is important, too.
[09:35:17]
BRITT: Well, sure. Certainly, a key value prop is this -- for signing up for a Chime account is, you get early access to your paycheck and when it
became clear that these stimulus payments were going to come through, the team really mobilized to try to give consumers access to -- Chime members -
- access to those payments early as well.
So I believe the payments were scheduled to arrive in consumers' accounts on April 15th and if you are a Chime member, getting direct deposit, you
gained access to those payments as early as the 10th. So we gave our members access -- early access -- about five days early, and the total
amount that we made available was a little over $1.5 billion.
So that created a lot of buzz within our membership and actually drove a ton of sign-ups. Our motivation was not to drive a bunch of sign-ups, but
really just to do the right thing. One of our core values here is to be member obsessed and to be human and we just thought it was the right thing
to do and it really drove some great business results for us as well.
CHATTERLEY: How many customers do you now have, Chris?
BRITT: Well, as a private company, we've sort of got out of the formula of giving updates on active accounts every month. But you'll be able to read
it one day. But we have many millions of account holders, and to give you a sense of scale, we now open on a monthly basis many hundreds of thousands
of new checking accounts every month.
CHATTERLEY: Are you profitable?
BRITT: You know, as a growth company, we do have very attractive unit economics. If you think about the relationship that we form and one of the
reasons that we benefitted during COVID is that we really on a primary relationship with our members, so they get direct deposit of their paycheck
and once you do that, the relationship and the financial model of the business is highly predictable, highly recurring and actually highly
profitable.
So although we're still sort of in high growth mode in terms of acquisition efforts and product development and hiring teams, we actually had been
EBIDTA profitable for the last four months, but we are not optimizing for that, and I don't anticipate being full GAAP profitable this year.
CHATTERLEY: It's interesting though. We should be calling you a software company because you're the interface, i.e. you're building a sort of a
portfolio of understanding of how client's finances work and you're the interface between the banks, perhaps behind you, that take the deposits,
for example, and how the money and payments are made with you guys sitting in the middle.
Chris, talk to me about that valuation, $14.5 billion, does that make you nervous? Is that a sign of the times, perhaps? Or a sign of the future of
finance, or all of the above?
BRITT: Well, look, we all know markets go up and down and, like I've said in other discussions, you know, we don't gauge our success based on the
valuation level or comparisons or how much money we've raised. We gauge our success based on the impact we're having on our members.
And I think, a combination of things, one is we're disrupting financial services, but doing it in an asset light way. In other words, we're not --
even though we partner to offer bank accounts, our business model is not bank like. It's more like a software subscription service that is highly
recurring and highly profitable, as I said.
And as a result of all of those things, we're able to deliver better value back to the consumer in the form of essentially fee free banking that is
actually helpful. So we're very proud of this latest round of financing, but it's just one step in a long journey.
We believe that, you know, over the long-term we will be an independent, large, public company, and that's sort of the long-term plan for us.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, big financials. Watch this space. Chris, great to have you with us. Come back and talk to us soon, please. Plenty more questions for
you, as always. Chris Britt, the CEO and co-founder of Chime. Thank you for that.
All right, up next --
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
CHATTERLEY: Keeping the beauty of dance and music alive in the era of social distancing. We speak to the Executive Director of an Arts Venue,
Kaatsbaan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:42:57]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to the show. COVID-19 restrictions brought the curtain down on art venues around the world. But one New York dance center
is finding creative ways to ensure the show goes on.
Located in upstate New York, Kaatsbaan describes itself as an incubator of dance and creativity. For 30 years, it has hosted retreats and residencies
on an estate that was once Eleanor Roosevelt's riding stables.
Now, during the pandemic, it has become what it calls a sanctuary for dance. And joining us now is Sonja Kostich, she is the Executive Director
of Kaatsbaan. Sonja, fantastic to have you on the show. When I saw this, I was mesmerized. It reminded me of "Mid-Summer Night's Dream" dancing in the
middle of fields. This is the first year in 30 you've put on live performances. COVID hit and you had to get creative. Explain what happened.
SONJA KOSTICH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, KAATSBAAN: Absolutely. So COVID definitely put an extreme challenge on our entire industry, and because
what we do is performances with gatherings, generally inside theatres, that programming was closed down, so we took a look around at our 153 acres that
is located in Hudson Valley and we said, okay, let's do live programming outside safely and within all the mandates.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, you were taking some of the American Ballet Theatre ballerinas, putting them into quarantine bubbles and allowing them to come
and stay on site and dance to put on these performances, because as you said, safety have to come first. But the logistical challenge of this is
not small.
KOSTICH: No, we did a lot of research. We looked at what a lot of museums with outdoor sculptures were doing, as well as parks up here in the Hudson
Valley and we scrutinized all the details for safe, live, outdoor arts and entertainment in the Hudson Valley.
But yes, we did. We were able to gather just the most incredible artists from American Ballet Theatre, New York City Ballet, Martha Graham, Alvin
Ailey and we had them follow really strict protocols, which included quarantining for two weeks prior to arrival, doing numerous testing, and we
also implemented a lot of protocols for our staff, as well as audiences who are going to attend the performance.
[09:45:25]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, it's such an immersive experience as well. It's not just about the dance, it is the music, it is the environment. It's
everything. And I believe you've taken around 150 of the dancers and these are premium athletes at their peak. What about for the rest?
Sonja, just explain the challenges for the performers that we're seeing all around the world, not just in New York, for example? What does it mean to
not be able to dance? I know in many cases in New York, it's a case of going to get unemployment benefits, because that's the only choice.
KOSTICH: Yes, it's been very challenging for artists, for companies, for theatres, and for so many of these artists, this is their livelihood.
They've been rehearsing and practicing and training for years and years, and as you know for a dancer, one's professional career is so short.
So it's really heartbreaking to see how we have to just pause and have these dancers waiting and guessing, you know, when they will be allowed to
resume their profession. We are so grateful that we were able to provide over a hundred artists' opportunity to perform this summer over the course
of nine weeks for our summer festival.
But, yes, there are so many artists who didn't have that opportunity and I know that they are collecting unemployment. They are looking for, you know,
unique and creative ways to stay viable and keep their craft alive. So much is being done right now digitally. I think there's a lot of new skills
being learned among our --
CHATTERLEY: Not just in the arts. But it is so important, because it's so important for our well-being, too, and I feel passionately about this.
Sonja, you're unique because you've come to Kaatsbaan and you have a dance culture background, but you went to business school, you worked in finance
for a while.
You and I talked before the show about this belief that art never makes money. It's just intrinsic. It's a nonprofit. You don't make money. Do you
think COVID, perhaps, will be a wake-up moment where we have to think differently, we have to think about culture and the arts as a business
model, too? Because it has to make money to survive tough periods like this.
KOSTICH: Absolutely. I think being presented with this challenge and these restrictions, allows for us to take a moment and look at how we operate,
how we have operated historically and what new models, perhaps, have not yet been discovered that we could implement going forward.
We're definitely looking at a new normal once we come out of this entire pandemic. Things have changed. Audiences needs and wants have changed.
Artists' needs and wants have changed. And of course, you know, as a business, as a company, whether you are for profit or not for profit, you
need to look and see what your constituents need and want and we are going to be looking at a very different world.
So I think it's an opportune moment to say this is what we've always done, but can we do something that fits now with the world that we live in.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's such a great point and I know you weren't charging for these performances. You were relying on donations. But it is also a
case of what are people willing to pay when they're told to pay it, versus just being willing to donate.
Talk to me about what happens next spring and summer, because it's difficult to do this when the weather gets cold. But I believe it is game-
on for next spring and summer when you're back and people can come back and watch again.
KOSTICH: Yes, we are so excited actually. We are already deep in planning mode for 2021. Even when it gets colder outside, I think that we have now
recognized the value of our facility and the need for it, and so we will continue robust programming, whether it's providing space for artists to
come create and train and find new ways to get their art out into the world.
When spring comes, we now have a new venue located outside, so it's an exciting prospect to think of all the things that we can do now that take
place outside and provide, again, more opportunities for artists and we want to include not just dance, but also music and art installation and
poetry and we want to provide a resource for all artists.
And I think that with 153 acres, we have that space, and when you come here, you have time, and you can work 24/7. So we're very excited. We have
some really, really interesting projects on the horizon that we're very excited about and that will happen soon.
CHATTERLEY: And hopefully, people will pay to come and see it because it's worth it. Sonja, great to have you on. Thank you so much and do stay in
touch.
Sonja Kostich there, the Executive Director of Kaatsbaan. Thank you for that.
All right, coming up on the show, shipping in the deals. Up next, we'll be live in Dubai's biggest port to see what the recent pact between Israel and
the UAE could mean for its business and operations. Stay with us.
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[09:52:32]
CHATTERLEY: Business is the way forward, that's the thinking of the company that runs Dubai's biggest port after the recent normalization pact between
the UAE and Israel.
Some of the sectors already covered include shipping, science, technology and banking. Our John Defterios spoke with the CEO of DP World about what
is in it for them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SULTAN AHMED BIN SULAYEM, GROUP CHAIRMAN AND CEO, DP WORLD: We have been wasting our time in confrontation and we can call it Cold War, Hot War --
it didn't work, for us at least, and we believe that this is going to strengthen our position in this organization.
In the meantime, as the UAE, we are looking at an opportunity that can come out of this that help both.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Many believe that you signed a number of MOUs, and that's as we say in English, window dressing,
a lot of show, nothing inside. What is the counterargument to that? What has been signed so far?
SULAYEM: Not at all, actually. One thing you know in UAE, we don't waste our time on MOUs. MOUs are just a kind of a document to set the pace for
what you are going to do, but we know what we are going to do. We know the business and we know how we can get the business.
It is about technology adoption. It's about logistics. It's about connection. It's about ability of both to trade and do business. We need
something from them in technology, they need something from us. They need our market. They need our location. They need to learn how to do business
in the UAE.
Because the way we do our business is totally different. They've been in isolation for a long time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And John joins us now. John, what a great conversation. Forget the MOUs, it's all about the business deals. Bring us the business deals.
What more can you tell us about other opportunities, eyes on a port in Israel, I believe, potentially?
DEFTERIOS: Well, this is the new end to end business, Julia. I'm glad you brought it up because DP World for example, which operates this port here
in Jebel Ali in Dubai is putting the tender in for the Haifa Port to refurbish the existing facility along with an Israeli partner, the Chamber
says they hope to get that because that means the products can come here and then go to the subcontinent of Asia and then to Africa, offering Israel
a market of two billion consumers that the UAE taps into all the time.
Secondarily, this is not very popular with the United States. China is trying to build a brand new terminal in Haifa. So important to the U.S.
that Mike Pompeo flew to Israel in May trying to block it, talking to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Sources tell me, that's still proceeding.
Then there's the next frontier, let's put it that way, if we can bring up the graphic here. Already, the UAE and Israel are looking at defense
electronics, very important. Energy, natural gas and the Eastern Mediterranean, food security because of the arid climates here in the
desert of course, also in Israel, and tourism.
[09:55:23]
DEFTERIOS: And if you want to look for signals, Julia, this is an interesting one, in the last 10 days, Emirates Airline said it's going to
offer kosher cuisine on its flights, looking forward to hosting Israeli passengers on Emirates flights as a bridge between east and west.
They have a common DNA, Julia, that's what you find out from the DP World Chairman and they're ready to do business and that lays down the brickwork
for peace in the future. That's the intentions.
CHATTERLEY: Economics, it seems, is the best glue for this kind of arrangement, holding together. John Defterios from Dubai, thank you so much
for that there.
DEFTERIOS: You bet.
CHATTERLEY: All right, that's it for the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe and we'll see you tomorrow.
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[10:00:00]
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