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First Move with Julia Chatterley
The Chinese Economy Grows 4.9 Percent In The Third Quarter; Democrats Just Have Hours Left To Agree To A Stimulus Deal Before The U.S. Election; Italy Announces Tough New COVID-19 Virus Restrictions. Aired 9- 10a ET
Aired October 19, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:12]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.
China's comeback. The economy grows 4.9 percent in the third quarter.
Democrats' deadline. Just hours left to agree a stimulus deal before the U.S. Election.
And Europe on edge. Italy announces tough new COVID-19 virus restrictions.
It is Monday. Let's make a move.
Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Great to have you with us as always.
The FIRST MOVE countdown clock is well and truly on this Monday. Let me walk you through it. Fifteen more days until the November 3rd presidential
election here in the United States, four days to the next Biden-Trump debate, and less than 48 hours until all hope of a financial aid bill
before the U.S. Election is vanquished, at least according to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Wow. There is a lot to come.
U.S. futures starting the weak higher, meanwhile as investors I think assess the chances that Congress will finally put people before politics
and do something short-term, otherwise, they're assuming, I think, help comes post-election. It is a case of when, not if, not necessarily the
same, of course, for struggling Americans.
Deals meanwhile are getting done in the embattled oil sector as consolidation continues. ConocoPhillips buying shale oil driller, Concho
for almost $10 billion. The consolidation expected to continue, too, but helping sentiment and I've already mentioned it.
The Chinese data overnight. GDP in the third quarter growing some 4.9 in China, slightly softer than expected, but that number suggests a full
recovery of all the output lost during the desperately bad first quarter amid those COVID-related lockdowns, taken at face value and I'm saying that
with some degree of caution, this provides some kind of lesson perhaps and the benefits of both stimulus and controlling the virus, which in turn,
dictates the pace of recovery, and we've seen that all over the world.
China, currently on track to be the only major economy to post overall growth this year. There may be some challenges to that, and negative
consequences which we will discuss shortly.
For now, though, The Shanghai Composite up more than eight percent in 2020. That's a better performance as you can see here than the S&P 500. Just.
Let's get to the drivers. Selina Wang is in Hong Kong for us. Selina, you've had a look at this data. Good sign from the consumer and the Golden
Week Holiday perhaps and people traveling domestically told us this. Walk us through the numbers.
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, we've talked about contrast with China and the rest of the world for several weeks now and these GDP numbers
just reinforce that.
While the rest of the world is dealing with the worst crisis since the Great Depression, China is posting this 4.9 percent gain in the third
quarter. Of course, as you said, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but the economists I speak to say that when they look at other gauges and
outside data sources, it does directionally point to the significant recovery in China.
Compared that to what the predictions are in the U.S. It is expected to contract more than four percent. The Eurozone, expected to contract more
than eight percent. If we can just pull up the chart, which shows that the bounce back in 2021 for these advanced economies isn't going to be enough
to offset the damage done in 2020. China, as you mentioned, expected to be the only major economy to grow this year.
As a result of this, China's share of global GDP is also increasing. China's economy is expected to be worth $14.6 trillion by the end of 2020,
roughly equivalent to 17.5 percent of global GDP. Now, all of this is just a reminder, and you hinted about this earlier, that unless a country is
able to rein in the pandemic, they can't really post a sustainable recovery, and so far, China's strategy seems to be working when it comes to
mass testing, contact tracing and these selective lockdowns.
And the consumption does show this recovery as well. We saw more than three percent growth in September. We spoke about the Golden Week Holiday with
more than half a billion people in China who were traveling, but there are some risks here as well.
For one, like many other countries, China's recovery has been uneven. It's disproportionately impacted the poor. We know that during the height of the
pandemic in China, millions of people across China lost their jobs, and China's data does not give us a full picture of the jobless, but we know
that there is still immense pressure on unemployment as well as on people's incomes, so that does raise the question of how sustainable is this going
to be when people just don't have as much money in their pockets.
[09:05:16]
CHATTERLEY: And this is a challenge all over the world and it is a great point and also, when an economy is growing, can it decouple from the rest
of the world when they're still struggling? Huge question still to ask, aside from the validity of the data, Selina.
Selina Wang, thank you so much for that update there.
All right, here in the United States, with just two weeks until Election Day, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi giving the White House a Tuesday deadline
for a stimulus deal to pass a relief package before the election, bringing further pressure for a fast breakthrough. Christine Romans joins us now.
Christine, the pressure has never been higher, quite frankly, but we've been wittering on about this for weeks and weeks and weeks. When I look at
some of the details and the noises we get from all sides, and there is more than two here, quite frankly, I still don't think a deal is possible given
the disagreements. What do you think?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's going to be tough because they have been going over this familiar ground now for
months. I mean, you go all the way back to May 15th. That's when the House Democrats passed $3.4 trillion in their Heroes Act and they came down to
$2.2 trillion.
Republicans have said they are more interested in $1.8 trillion or even smaller, skinnier deals. There was just a lot of negotiating that has
already happened. We know that Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker, has said that fighting the virus and winning against the virus has to be central to
all of this.
So, testing, language about testing and tracing is really important and she says, at least, that negotiators have backtracked some of the promises
there.
You're right, it's three parties here really. It's the White House. It's Senate Republicans and it's Democrats. So you know, you've got different
negotiating teams and different aims here.
CHATTERLEY: And the fact that we're debating that we should have the consistent and coherent plan for testing. Tracing has been proven a
challenge in other countries as well, where privacy laws play into it as well, but the idea we shouldn't be still ramping up testing to try and
enable schools get back online, businesses to get back online.
It's sort of heartbreaking that we're still challenged by this particular issue.
ROMANS: Well, that should be the first -- I mean, that should be the first thing in a national strategy, right, to corral the coronavirus, it would be
testing and we just have not done it. That has not been a real priority.
Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats are trying to say, essentially, look, we can keep spending borrowed money in this crisis, but you have to tell us how
we're going to get out of this crisis. So that's a really important angle here, I think as well.
You know what the Republicans like to see is liability protections. The White House has been sort of against giving money to states -- state aid. I
talked to the economist, Diane Swonk -- or Diane Swonk who told CNN actually that the state aid is a really important part of this because
you're going to see more layoffs soon, you know, think of firefighters, teachers, and police officers. I mean, these are funded by the states and
they've seen the revenues just vanish because of coronavirus.
That's a really important part of this and we know they have been fighting about that for months.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we'd love to spend less money, but you have to control the virus. The virus has to be in control and then we can spend less, otherwise
we should buy the recovery. You can't have it both ways.
ROMANS: Right.
CHATTERLEY: Christine Romans, yes, thank you so much. We'll keep our fingers crossed.
All right, let's move on. Italy's Prime Minister is unveiling new COVID-19 restrictions as daily cases surge to record highs. Giuseppe Conte calls the
situation critical. He says he is hoping to avoid another lockdown that could severely hurt the economy.
Ben Wedeman is live in Naples for us. Ben, great to have you with us. Just talk us through some of these restrictions and also, if you've got the
details, hospitalizations -- cases is one thing, but we also need to track hospitalizations to get a sense of what's going on here. What are we
seeing?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we are seeing is a fairly dramatic increase in the number of people in intensive care here
in Italy, sort of nationwide, but it is important to keep these in to sort of the broader context of this pandemic.
The first case of coronavirus was seen here on the 21st of February this year, but at this point, there are 750 people in intensive care in the
entire country. That's as of yesterday. But that's really just around a fifth of the number who were in intensive care at the height of the
pandemic earlier this year, so they've sort of, the curve that is such a cause of concern to medical authorities whereby the medical facilities are
overwhelmed is still far away.
What we've seen, for instance, is that there has been, for the fifth day in a row and we're expecting it to be the case also today, record numbers in
the number of new corona record -- increases in the number of new coronavirus cases, almost 12,000 yesterday, but that is partially a
reflection of the increase in testing.
Yesterday, we were at a testing facility here in Naples, a facility that tested about a thousand people a day.
[09:05:10]
WEDEMAN: Testing is really sort of gone through the roof here. Now, unlike before when you had to have symptoms of coronavirus, now you just have the
desire to get a test. Anybody can get a test for free.
So we were speaking with one of the senior specialists in the diseases here who said that, yes, you have this surge in new numbers because of testing,
but the actual number of patients is lagging way behind. Also lagging behind is the death toll.
Yesterday, 69 people passed away unfortunately from coronavirus, but compare that to the peak of the pandemic on the 29th of March, 969 people
died. So it does appear that the Italian government has got a handle of the situation at the moment. Of course, the problem is, we're really just in
the middle of October.
Winter is well ahead of us and the fear is that you could have a situation similar to what we saw earlier this year, if these numbers continue to
climb and if you look at the graphs, the numbers are going like this -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, this is the key. More testing, which putts the cases in perspective. Just a fifth of the people in intensive care compared to the
peak back then, but we have to act now because winter is coming.
Ben Wedeman in Naples, thank you so much for that.
All right, here are some of the stories making headlines around the world. Tens of thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators defied the protest ban
once again in Thailand over the weekend. At least 70 people were arrested in Bangkok. The protesters calling for a new Constitution and a limit on
the King's power. Thailand's government is promising to protect the monarchy.
In Colorado, firefighters are struggling to contain the largest wildfire in state history. But it's not the only one. Two new blazes sparked over the
weekend in Boulder County, which is already coping with a severe drought. One of them has quickly grown to nearly 3,700 hectares. Wow.
All right. Coming up after the break on FIRST MOVE, the roll call of my next guest includes Facebook, LinkedIn, PayPal and too many others to
mention. Reid Hoffman tells me integrity is everything in the presidential election. Some strong views and he joins us next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:30]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. The U.S. election just over two weeks away and with the finish line in sight, Joe Biden and Donald Trump
spent the weekend campaigning at very different looking events, but as they enter the final sprint, the co-founder of LinkedIn says we may not know who
has won until long after the polls close.
He also says, the stability of the U.S. economy is at risk unless everyone does their bit to safeguard confidence in the election result.
Joining us now is Reid Hoffman, co-founder of LinkedIn and partner at venture capital firm, Greylock Partners. He is also one of over 50 business
leaders who signed a statement calling for calm and stability in the face of an uncertain outcome at the polls.
Reid, fantastic to have you on the show with us once again. I read the statement in conjunction with the Leadership Now Project and my
overwhelming sense from this is that you're calling for calm and the civility in the very emotional and emotive and divisive time.
REID HOFFMAN, CO-FOUNDER OF LINKEDIN: Absolutely. I mean, one of the important things that I thought was important for business leaders to
understand, given generally speaking, especially in American business who tend to try to separate ourselves from politics to be inclusive, employees,
customers, investors, it is like, actually here, business leaders need to speak up and they need to speak up on the democratic process.
Just on the fact that we're living in a pandemic, we're going to have a lot of vote by mail, we need to be calm as we count all of those. We need to
make sure we count all the votes and speaking up on this topic is not actually, in fact, being political. Either capital P or small p, but
actually in fact just expressing care for our country, care for the democratic process.
CHATTERLEY: And this is irrespective of what your political affiliation is. We've had society, we see silos built up, families unable to talk about
their political preferences. The sort of toxicity and divisions within society have grown. You're saying it's actually businesses' responsibility
to encourage conversation, debate about the views.
HOFFMAN: Yes, precisely because part of the thing is, hey, look, what you can do is you can step forward and say, look, what's important is that we
come together as a country. What's important is business needs stability and calm in order to invest, in order to kind of build the future.
And what we're about to do is get into an election where the first time the vote by mail because of the pandemic is at record numbers, and so very
unlikely that we're going to know the evening of November 3rd what the actual in fact final vote count is and we should just make sure that we
count all the votes, stay calm as we do it. Don't allow anyone to prematurely declare victory.
Just say, hey, look, let's be American democracy people, and let's do that.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and the media plays a huge role in this, too, about the patience to allow the votes to be collected as well.
I mean, there's a difference between an inconclusive election results because the results are so close and a contested election where either one
party says, hey, we don't accept the result or the voters of the individual parties don't accept it and Reid, my fear is that that's what we're going
to see here no matter what the result is, either voters simply say, I don't want this person to be my President. How big is that risk?
HOFFMAN: Well, obviously, we're in a deeply emotional and turbulent time and there are people who kind of -- like are just absolutely opposed to the
notion of either Trump winning another four years or Biden winning for different reasons obviously, but be that as it may, the problem is that,
claims to premature victory or claims that you should go and kind of protest before the legal process has run, before every vote is counted,
before the vote by mails are counted.
Any attacks on the democratic process, I believe, personally, are kind of anti, the thing that makes American democracy special. We should be rule of
law, we should be civility. We should be -- let us be a democracy and that's what I think is really important.
I think business leaders speaking out on that are not being partisan and not being political and obviously, can be great sources of calm because
obviously, many business leaders whether they are Democrats or Republicans are essentially centrists and not at the edges of the most emotional kind
of political combat.
[09:20:18]
CHATTERLEY: This kind of brings society before business, to your point is that you can't play sides here. You have to put society and being American
and American democracy first.
HOFFMAN: Yes. And if you do that, you're actually also being pro-business. Right? You're saying, okay, all right, a stable and calm society is
precisely what is good for business in America and for our business.
CHATTERLEY: So the cost of Bidenomics is a title from a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed over the weekend. It was the Hoover Institution there,
right-leaning, we should make the point they were talking about the costs, ultimately, if we see Joe Biden win the presidency, fulfill some of his
plans as far as regulation is concerned, as far as tax rates are concerned.
Reid, give me the counter to this because I know you believe that Biden can be better for business, almost irrespective of the policies that we're
looking at going forward. I guess it comes back to the point about stability.
HOFFMAN: Yes. Totally true. I mean, basically, the question is, business is not about a little bit difference in taxes or anything else; business is
about the ability to grow your customers, to grow your employees, to make jobs.
And actually, in fact, one of the things I think is ironic here in the Hoover thing is Moody's and Goldman Sachs, two places that are not exactly
known for their kind of liberal and progressive views, but are actually straight economic straight business, actually give Biden's plan over seven
million creation of new jobs more than Trump's. It's actually nearly 19.
And it would raise the average American's income by nearly $4,800.00, unlike Trump's, which would be nothing for the average household.
And so, actually, in fact, I think that broadly speaking, when you consider the business vote, I believe very strongly and I think that there is
classic economist sources like Moody's and Goldman Sachs that think Biden is actually in fact the business choice.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is interesting, Reid, as well. I mean, one of the other big criticisms, I think, the fear and it is very much debated here in the
United States is the idea of Supreme Court packing, which we have not had a definitive decision on from Joe Biden as well, the risk that states,
probably democratic leaning states could be added.
Just the shift of power that was enshrined in the Constitution could change, too. Is that something else you'd like clarity on, simply to
perhaps address some of the fears that are being used by the Republican side that, look, this is where we're headed. It comes back again to
society, I think, and civil society and being represented, whatever your political affiliation is.
HOFFMAN: Well, I do think it's very important to be kind of rule of law, appropriate use of state mechanisms, and all the rest. Just as a small
legal point, actually, in fact, there only being 50 states is not actually enshrined in the Constitution. There being nine justices is not enshrined
in the Constitution. These are matters of law.
I think we should be careful about very, very strong pro rule of law. It's one of the reasons why I personally already voted for Biden by mail,
because I actually think Biden is the rule of law vote as well.
But I think that's the important thing and I think people should, you know, taking the rhetoric of, "This is anti-constitutional" is part of where
people in politics tend to lie and mislead and I think that we want to get back to as much discussion of truth as fundamental to a civil discourse and
fundamental to how we learn and improve the society.
CHATTERLEY: Do you believe that Joe Biden stands for the entire Democratic Party? Because you have become a significant donor for the Democratic
Party. It's become sort of a huge focus for you since the 2016 election. Do you believe he speaks and can control the party because I guess that would
underscore another one of the criticisms that's made here?
HOFFMAN: I think, look -- so one of the things that's both wonderful and also sometimes obviously, a little frustrating of the Democratic Party is
it has lots of camps and it has lots of people expressing, how do we get better as a society and what is important?
But I think that Biden is, right now, the leader of the Democratic Party and has many, many constituencies who are hopeful for what he can do and
back him and accept his leadership.
And so I think the short answer is yes. Now, does that mean you can't find one person who is a Democrat who says something silly? Foolish? You know,
something that most of us wouldn't agree with? Absolutely.
That of course, doesn't speak for the Democratic Party. The values of like how do we have a more inclusive future society? How do we essentially help
the middle class rise? How do we build towards the future?
I think those are all things that Biden is an excellent leader for.
[09:25:10]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, because it comes back to the question of unity. Talk to me about the risk that if we do see a Democratic sweep, that we see greater
regulation and quicker on some of the Big Tech names, perhaps even a push for break-up, because to your point about certain voices within the party,
some of them are pretty aggressive on this point.
Is that a price worth paying, Reid, do you think for a shift?
HOFFMAN: So personally, I'm opposed to the notion given that we all live in a global world that we're competing with China, other places, of breaking
up the tech companies. I think that's the wrong idea.
I think we should shape them and harness them for the benefit of the society, for the benefit of the middle class. I think thee there are a
bunch of different ways to do that. Some of that may end up in regulation.
But it shows you how important, I think, the vote for Biden is for business, for the American future and prosperity.
Now, of course, you think, well, these are the people who may come for an attack and say, "We should break you up," and I disagree with that very
strongly, and I still support it. I still campaign for it. I still donate because that's how important it is.
CHATTERLEY: Is Big Money an issue for the Democratic Party because it was traditionally the stronghold of the Republicans to see the big billionaire
donors providing support. The Democrats seem to have nailed grassroots support.
I mean, I saw the latest funding numbers. They are huge for the Democratic Party and I think the average donation around $44.00, but you've sort of
been challenged to some degree as a significant donator for the Democratic Party. Do we need Big Business and big billionaires out of politics or is
it a sort of a necessary requirement?
HOFFMAN: Well, so, I mean, part of the irony is, I've given money in multiple ways before to try to reduce money in politics because I do
actually prefer to stay closer to the one person, one vote, you know, kind of influence.
We have a distortion of that with the Electoral College and other things already but I would like to be there.
But while money is in, I think it's important that you contribute money towards the kinds of society that you would like to see, the kind of sense
of, okay, look, how can we -- you know, for example, build technology to make more middle-class jobs, to make more manufacturing jobs? How can we be
inclusive and fulfill the American Dream by which everyone has a shot at making themselves and their families middle class, upper middle class?
That path we are doing, I think, is very important. And so, of course, I have been a major donor for that purpose. Now, if I think we could figure
out some way to say look, money should have less of an impact on politics, as a matter of fact, I personally, as an entrepreneur, as an investor
before spending money on building businesses, right, that would be, if all of us were doing that, I think that would be much better.
Until that's the case, I think it's important the money also speak on the side of you know, kind of the things that make America kind of what it has
been over the last hundreds of years.
CHATTERLEY: Speaking of building businesses, Reid, what about you post- election? Let's make the assumption that Joe Biden wins, and that the Democratic Party takes over. Will you continue to promote Democratic
causes? Or are you going to go back and refocus?
Or is there a sort of a tectonic shift, I think that perhaps that might represent too difficult to predict what you'll do at this stage?
HOFFMAN: Well, it's always very difficult. Before Trump got elected, my stance with politics was always, hey, if a good business leader,
democratically elected in the U.S. and anywhere in the world came and asked for my help on entrepreneurship tech, I would try to help, try to be a good
citizen and participate and I would donate to great leaders that I found, but otherwise, I would stay out.
That would be my hope for where my future would be, because I'm inherently an entrepreneur and innovator, inventor, a business creator and an
investor. That would be what I would like to be doing.
Now, that being said, obviously, again, kind of part of the reason I got into politics is I view Trump to be a threat to the rule of law, I view him
to be extremely divisive in the society, essentially, kind of promoting discord, and I said, okay, that really -- we need to stand up against that.
I would like to go back to saying, look, let me just help with business, help with technology, help with entrepreneurship and then, you know, if I
can be useful, call me. Otherwise, back to building businesses.
CHATTERLEY: Reid, do the protests stop if Biden wins? They didn't begin with the Trump presidency. We had trouble before. Do you think it calms if
Biden wins? There are many challenges still in this economy and for the American people.
HOFFMAN: I would love it for that to be the case. I don't think it will. I think one of the challenges you just mentioned, which is you know, we're in
this division.
I also think, unfortunately, just as what you've been seeing for the last couple of months, I think that if Biden wins, I think Trump is going to be
promoting discord. I think he is going to continue to do that.
I don't know how exactly we should try to navigate that, but you know, like for example, when you see him on multiple TV interviews where he says,
well, the election is legitimate if I win, and not if I don't, which is absurd at its face.
[09:30:18]
HOFFMAN: Well, if he goes and continues to do that, he is going to be continuing to bring cost and discord to you know, kind of a fair democratic
process and I think that nearly guarantees that unfortunately, kind of discord and civil unrest will continue.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Lots to think about. Reid Hoffman, great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for that and come back soon. Co-founder of
LinkedIn and partner for Greylock Partners. Thank you for that.
We're back after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where U.S. stocks are up and running on the first trading day of the week. A moment of reflection, I think, for
traders today on the 33rd Anniversary of the 1987 stock market crash, the so-called Black Monday, that anniversary today. Wow. We don't repeat that
too many times.
The major averages are moving higher thankfully today as we await new word on Washington regarding a stimulus deal. Earnings too from one fifth of
companies in the S&P 500 are on deck as well. IBM reporting later today. Netflix and Intel are up later this week too. And tesla, of course, as
well.
It's also a merger Monday for the beaten down oil and gas sector. ConocoPhillips is buying shale oil driller, Concho Resources for almost $10
billion. A deal that's been anticipated, I have to say, for a few days now. The news coming this morning.
Concho shares are little changed in early trading today, but they did rise some eight percent last week. So the news already in the price.
Also keeping an eye on Johnson & Johnson today, one week after the firm paused a crucial human trial of its coronavirus vaccine, neither the
company nor the F.D.A. have offered any answers to some pretty critical questions.
CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen joins us. Elizabeth, great to have you with us, as always. I, for one, am deeply impatient about
getting information on anything to do with vaccines, and you always tell us to be calm and to be patient. How unusual is it to have heard nothing?
[09:35:29]
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, we asked the F.D.A. and Johnson & Johnson some really basic questions about this pause.
Let me tell you about two of these basic questions.
One is, so what happened was a participant became ill, and so they paused it which is what should happen while they try to figure out sort of what
this means about the safety of the vaccine, but they won't answer the basic question of did this person get a placebo or a vaccine?
It gets complicated because the company in its official statement doesn't say either way. Johnson & Johnson executives have said they don't know, but
that was last Tuesday and Wednesday. It's been a week. You would think if they wanted to, they would know what this recipient, what this participant
rather received and if they don't know, why don't they know because it would be helpful to tell the public, hey, the person got the placebo, don't
worry about it or the person got the vaccine, and so therefore, there needs to be an investigation done to see if there's a possible safety problem
with this vaccine.
The second question that's gone unanswered is, is this the first pause for this trial? We know about this one pause. It was in the media and then the
company talked about it, but we don't know, was it the first pause? When we asked the F.D.A. and the company, they didn't answer.
The F.D.A. says that they are legally prohibited from giving those answers, that they have to come from the company and the company didn't answer those
questions -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I'm sure you'll keep pressing and we'll keep watching for information, but for now, puzzling.
Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for the update there.
COHEN: Thanks.
CHATTERLEY: All right, major online shopping platforms like Amazon and Alibaba have increased their market share during the COVID crisis. Alibaba
today says it would take a controlling stake in one of China's leading supermarket chains to better compete with its online rivals.
Sherisse Pham join us now and has all of the details. Did anyone say jd.com because it's about taking the fight for them, isn't it? Talk us through
what we know.
SHERISSE PHAM, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Indeed, the big rivalry, it continues into groceries. Alibaba pouring billions of dollars into an industry that
has really been turbo charged by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Alibaba paying $3.6 billion to up its stake in Sun Art. That's a big hypermarket and supermarket chain in China, and this has been going on for
a while, right?
We have seen tech giants around the world making a play for online groceries. Over there in the United States, Amazon, of course, with Whole
Foods. Over in China, jd.com has had physical grocery presence with its grocery store called Fresh Hippo. It has had this tie-up with Sun Art since
2017 and its main rival, jd.com, they have had a partnership with Walmart for years as well as a local retail chain called Yonghui.
Now, of course, the COVID-19 pandemic has just kind of accelerated the shift to buying groceries online. A lot of people that might have been
uncomfortable buying bananas and milk online, they didn't really have a choice when lockdowns happened around the country.
I mean, I can speak about this for my own experience. I live in Hong Kong. My parents live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I use Instacart to buy
groceries for them because I love you, mom and dad, if you're watching, but you're not very good with using the smartphone and the iPad.
So they tell me what they want. I order it on Instacart, they get it in two to four hours.
In China, it is even more competitive. JD and Alibaba in a fierce battle for that Chinese consumer. There are places in China where you can get
online groceries delivered in an hour, in some places in 30 minutes.
So it is fiercely competitive, and analysts are saying that this trend to shopping for groceries online, it's going to last well after the pandemic
as people become more used to it, and you could bet that Alibaba will want to be dominant in this industry.
CHATTERLEY: You know, I couldn't agree more, and you raised so many great points, but all I can remember about that is the fact you're buying your
parents groceries over in Canada from where you are in Hong Kong, Sherisse.
PHAM: They are hunkered down. They are hunkered down. I feel so bad. You know, if you're watching, mom and dad, I love you guys and stay strong
through the pandemic and thank you for staying safe and that goes to everybody out there who is, you know, forced to stay indoors because they
are at risk of this COVID-19 pandemic and you've got to do what you've got to do and sometimes that means buying online groceries and leaning on a
daughter every now and then to do so.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, helping out your family. Hi, to Sherisse's mom and dad. Thank you for joining us. Great job. Thank you.
PHAM: Thanks, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: All right, up next, pool testing. The F.D.A. grants emergency approval for a COVID test that aims to find asymptomatic cases. Could this
be the key to successful reopening of schools and larger workplaces? Find out next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. As COVID-19 cases surpass 40 million, fast reliable testing is more critical than ever.
The U.S. regulatory has just expanded its emergency approval of one such test. Hologic's Panther Fusion platform provides results in three hours and
can process 1,000 samples a day.
The F.D.A. recently approved the test for asymptomatic patients, meaning, it can now be used to screen seemingly healthy individuals. The regulator
also greenlit the company's pool-testing protocol.
Joining me is Steve MacMillan, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Hologic. Steve, fantastic to have you on the show.
STEVE MACMILLAN, CHAIRMAN, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, HOLOGIC: Thanks, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: It's long been our view and our discussion on the show that until we're mass testing, pool testing, we're not going to get some
semblance of normality returning to society. Is this what we're sort of heading towards with your technology?
MACMILLAN: Clearly, what we want to be able to help everybody get back are the best results as fast as you can get them, and our technology magically
kind of fits in the middle of, you've been hearing so much about PCR testing, right, and in the early days, a lot of it is by far more accurate,
but it was taking a long time to return the results.
And then you have what's known as the antigen testing, a lot of these rapid tests, but they're not nearly as sensitive or specific.
So what our engineers and scientists have done and we've been doing this for years, this is really our core competency, is we have a technology
that's incredibly sensitive, but also can be run very quickly on our Panther system, of which we have the largest installed base in the world.
[09:45:10]
MACMILLAN: For example, we have over 2,000 machines around the world including almost a thousand outside the U.S., Julia, so what that allows us
to do is take the test quickly, run it quickly, get the results back to the patients and that's what we need to build that confidence and knowledge to
get everybody back to functioning again the way we want it to.
CHATTERLEY: So, you're saying what you're trying to provide here is a test that has the accuracy of doing a PCR test rather than the antigen, which is
seen as a little bit more suspect or less sensitive, but simply get the results back quicker.
I mean, we've all heard the stories, three days, five days, ten days in some cases simply just to get that result back, by which point it's too
late.
MACMILLAN: Well, exactly, and that's been the magic and that's why the F.D.A. and frankly, a lot of the E.U. countries have really wanted us to be
to market with the indications we've had.
By the way, we've already produced tens of millions of tests. You know, this has been in our core competency. We're the world leaders in molecular
testing for HPV, sexually transmitted infections.
So what we've been able to do and because our install base is everywhere, effectively, all we have to do is swab the patient, run it over to the lab.
It can be tested quickly, and you have extreme sensitivity.
The reason we got the asymptomatic claim from the F.D.A. is because our test is so sensitive that it can pick up people in what's known as
asymptomatic and if you think about it real simple terms, in the beginning of any virus or anything, the patient's viral load is very low and then it
builds as the symptoms build.
The magic of catching it, we keep hearing about the asymptomatic spread, the magic of having a test that's sensitive enough to pick it up pre-
symptomatic is the magic where we can really control so much better and just be able to take the targeted actions that we want around not just the
country, but the world.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and you reduce the amount of spread. So if you catch people early, quite frankly, you reduce the number of cases that you're
dealing with and that's the ultimate hope here, Steve.
What we're still talking about though is doing a swab, getting it to a laboratory, using your Fusion platform. How much does the platform itself
cost? Can you envision a situation where you provide these to, say, big employers so that they can actually have one in their office where those
swabs can be taken and the results can be given, perhaps the same day or overnight or do we still have the delay of getting it to the laboratory and
then someone being called or the processing part of this also takes time?
MACMILLAN: You're so right to focus on that. A lot of it is the transportation time.
CHATTERLEY: Right.
MACMILLAN: And again, the map of our Panther system, to take it in two places. One is, we have over a thousand installed in the United States.
We're the only one that has high throughput Panthers in every state.
We even, you know, go Europe. We have multiple systems in Latvia, in Luxembourg. So in all cases, there's a Panther within, oftentimes, at most,
an hour drive of any facility and in most hospitals.
So for any patient going in a hospital can test, swab you today and literally just walk it over to the lab. The magic as well, all the footage
that always shows people pipetting and everything else, we have eliminated all of those steps.
So literally, you go from swab, you put the swab into the tube. The tube goes over the lab. It goes right on to the machine and you have results
just a few hours later.
So in most cases, people are getting the results back the same day or at worst, next day if somebody is tested in the afternoon, it can be run
overnight and you're good to go the next morning. So that's the magic of really, our footprint of the Panthers being everywhere.
CHATTERLEY: Steve, I have about 30 seconds, very quickly, now that you have F.D.A. approval, are you talking to the government about getting funding?
We need to scale up, get more of these out there if you can manufacture them quickly enough.
MACMILLAN: We have gotten some help from the U.S. government in scaling up. We've also frankly just been committing capital ourselves. We produce our
tests both in our San Diego facility in the United States and for most of Europe and outside the U.S., we produce in Manchester, U.K.
So we are making the investments. We have more than doubled our production capacity since the spring and we are continuing to invest further right now
as we speak.
CHATTERLEY: Fantastic. Great work, Steve. Thank you to you and your team and come back and talk to us soon, and we'll track progress.
Steve MacMillan there, Chairman, President --
MACMILLAN: Thank you, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you -- and CEO of Hologic there.
All right, when we return, the CEO of Siemens Energy says more must be done in the fight against climate change. His plan for action, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:52:20]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. A giant deal in the oil industry. ConocoPhillips, buying Concha Resources for nearly $10 billion. It comes as
the outlook for oil demand continues to weaken. It's a time of great uncertainty. Flexibility is therefore crucial.
That's the message of the CEO of Siemens Energy speaking to our John Defterios. Listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIAN BRUCH, CEO, SIEMENS ENERGY: If I look as a CEO in my company, what we are trying to do is really make sure that we build -- how we do
things much more and keep flexibility on a broad portfolio.
I think nobody can predict what happens in the next 10 years. We need to have the optionality and the portfolio going forward to find the different
solutions and also, different solutions would come in different regions at a different point in time.
In this regard for me, two things are important. Keeping optionality and really differentiate thing with how we do things.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Are you worried we are well behind the curve of getting to the 2050 targets under the Paris
Climate Agreement that even no matter what we do, we don't cap global warming at 1.5 degrees Centigrade?
BRUCH: I am absolutely worried. This is why I get up every day and go to work happily every day. Yes, because I really believe you can influence
something.
Yes, I think we are too timid and too late in a lot of things, but this is why we work on it, I want to push it. And no question, and climate change
is real and climate change is there and it will come faster and more rigorously than we expect.
But it doesn't mean we cannot do something, and the only thing we have to understand, we have to get from discussion mode and doing mode and really
start -- and start really looking for the silver bullet which overnight turns everything renewable or everything sustainable. It's a little bit
more complicated, but it really starts to do things and this is why I continuously push on interim solutions and yes, we are late.
DEFTERIOS: Former Vice President Joe Biden wants to get into the Paris Climate Agreement. He has a $2 trillion plan. Will that change the
narrative worldwide if there's a Biden in the White House with this policy that he is planning?
BRUCH: Well, I mean, I really cannot comment on the presidential elections and who is going to join the White House, I don't think so. Honestly,
because the world, the financial world, really, the consumers, the customers, the big energy companies, they know very well that they now need
to push no matter what.
And at the end, it will be more decisive where the capital flows, really than on what is the regulations around it, and because regulations would be
too slow anyway. And I am much more really believing that the companies and the capital is going to push it forward no matter what because it makes
sense.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Yes, business carries on regardless, John Defterios there. That's why I call him JD because I stumble.
Let's move on.
[09:55:19]
CHATTERLEY: Boeing's troubled 737 MAX jet could be back in the air by the end of this year. American Airlines plans to resume passenger flights
December 29th between Miami and New York pending recertification from the F.A.A.
The 737 MAX fleet has been grounded worldwide since March of 2019 following two crashes that killed 364 people. American lost $5 billion in the first
half of this year and recently cut some 9,000 jobs.
And finally, NASA working with Nokia to build a 4G cellular network on the moon. The plan is for the network to support the wireless operation of
lunar rovers and navigation as well as streaming video.
Nokia's research arm, Bell Labs was granted $14 million for the project.
Like on Earth, the 4G network will be eventually upgraded to 5G. I love all things space, but hey, let's fix Earth first.
All right, that's it for the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. Thank you for watching. We'll see you tomorrow and in the meantime, stay safe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
