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First Move with Julia Chatterley

The D.C. Deadlock Continues as the U.S. Hits Fresh COVID Records; Millions of AMERICANS Remain Out of Work, No Prospect of Help in Sight; Singles Day Smash Records in China and in the United States. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired November 12, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:56]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE, and here is your need to know.

Transition turmoil. The D.C. deadlock continues as the U.S. hits fresh COVID records.

Aid on hold. Millions of Americans remain out of work, no prospect of help in sight.

And a super-hot date. Singles Day smash records in China and in the United States.

It's Thursday. Let's make a move.

A warm welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. It's great to be with you as always. Today, though, a reality check.

After a week of discussing the beginning of the end of the COVID crisis, the truth is, we aren't there yet. And around the world, a number of COVID

cases continues to rise.

Hospitalizations are at or near record levels here in the United States and in the U.K., cases of coronavirus and Japan have hit fresh records, too.

It's a reminder that we have to get through a long, long winter first.

So that's the message at least from the investment community. I think today as stocks lose ground. Investors, once again buying pandemic winners like

Zoom, like Netflix.

For much of the week, we have been watching rotation out of tech and into some of the pandemic losers like airlines on the hopes that the upcoming

vaccines will trigger a swift economic rebound, and the truth is, too, more good news may follow soon.

Dr. Anthony Fauci says Moderna could release data on its vaccine version within a matter of days.

In the meantime, Goldman Sachs says vaccines will give Wall Street at least room to run, raising its forecasts and seeing double digit gains next year.

It's predicting a quote, "roaring 20s redux." But there's no room on roaring back for the real economy.

The U.S. reporting an additional 709,000 people filed for first time jobless claims last week. As we keep talking about on this show, more than

21 million Americans are still getting some form of financial assistance, and without action from the government, up to 30 million people could lose

COVID related benefits at the end of this year.

As always, in the absence of political leadership, it falls to the Central Bankers. E.C.B. Chief Christine Lagarde, Fed Chair Jay Powell, and the head

of the Bank of England will all speak today, at least someone is ready to act.

Let's get to the drivers. Christine Romans joins us now. Christine, we seem to be in a steady state, in terms of the hundreds of thousands of people

that ask for assistance in America each week, fresh benefit requests that is.

And you know, I look at the COVID case records and then I look at the words of Dr. Michael Oster Holm, adviser to President-elect Joe Biden saying we

need a four to six-week shutdown, support people's income in the meantime, but they're talking shutdown.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, that idea being floated yesterday got an awful lot of attention. And

the idea here is to, you know, to crush the virus and protect the economy.

He is talking about working with Congress to get a very big robust package so that you can pay people and small business and medium sized businesses

so they can literally shut down and weather this COVID storm.

You know, you're so right that just a couple of days ago, we were -- we could see the glimmers of hope, you know, on the horizon because of the

vaccine news.

But we are in the midst of these rising hospitalizations, rising case counts, and really kind of a vacuum of leadership in the U.S. outside of

the doctors. Our own Sanjay Gupta is calling this a humanitarian crisis. We've heard doctors say we're heading into the winter of hell.

So even as investors are looking ahead, Goldman Sachs for example, looking ahead to these great targets for the S&P 500 next year and the year after,

there's a bridge that the real economy needs to get there, that Main Street needs to get there and that bridge stops right -- you know, right over that

chiasm.

[09:05:06]

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, and this is the critical point here and actually, Dr. Osterholm was saying this, and you've alluded to the point as well, you can

have a lockdown, support people in the interim, and bring the economy back long before the Q1, Q2, Q3 prospect of a vaccine.

ROMANS: Sure.

CHATTERLEY: And we have to remember that the markets may soar, but the real economy still needs that bridge as you describe it.

ROMANS: It really does, and I think I worry a little bit about the plateauing jobless claims number. The fact that continuing claims are down

to the six million handle that could well be because people are rolling off their state benefits.

And that could be giving false comfort to those in Washington who are deficit hawks, who don't want to spend any more money, who just want to see

how this is going to play out.

They don't have a stock market problem breathing down their neck. The S&P 500 is up 10.5 percent this year. So, no real problem there. But there is a

real problem with real people and it is only going to get worse.

It's a health problem and it's a jobs problem. We are still down 10 million jobs from March.

So when I hear people inside the Beltway and people here in New York, many of them working from home, by the way, with the -- you know, they have the

option of working from home, talking about how great the stock market could be in the next year or two.

I really worry that the leadership is losing sight of what really matters and that's people who are who are falling -- not even fallen through the

cracks -- who are -- there are no cracks, they are just free falling here.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And it's happening all around the world. We won't forget this. Christine Romans, we will keep talking about it. Thank you.

ROMANS: Sorry for all the mixed metaphors. I had 25 metaphors there. I just --

CHATTERLEY: No, I love them all. I was I was absorbing them all. Don't you worry.

ROMANS: Okay. Good.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right, still no sign of an election concession in D.C. Joe Biden not receiving daily Intelligence briefings nor

correspondence from foreign leaders.

One Republican senator says he will step in if this situation hasn't changed by Friday. John Harwood joins us now.

John, and that's one of very few Republicans, let's face it, that's acknowledging Joe Biden as the President elect here. What I don't

understand, and please explain to me is why we can't have the recounts, why we can't have these legal battles and issues over who won this election,

but still allow Joe Biden to be getting these briefings so he is ready when necessary.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The reason, Julia, is that most Republicans are fearful of President Trump and his supporters.

They have allowed themselves to be taken hostage because they don't have the guts to stand up and say that Joe Biden is the President elect.

We had another one stand up and say it this morning, Republican Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio, a very large state, told John Berman on CNN's "New

Day," Joe Biden is the President elect.

Many Republicans are afraid to say that word and as long as they are, you're not going to have the Federal government make the official

determination called ascertainment that allows the formal part of the transition process to begin, including the expenditure of money and staff

support, State Department and other places to help Joe Biden get up and running for his presidency, which will begin on January 20th.

Now, the fortunate news for the United States and the rest of the world is the Joe Biden is an extraordinarily experienced guy with an extraordinarily

experienced team.

They already know a vast amount of what they need to know to get going. But this is an irritant. And the question is, how long does the formal

roadblock remain? We expect that over time, as the frivolous lawsuits the Trump Campaign is filing get thrown out of court, the Republican resistance

is going to erode, but it's still in place right now.

CHATTERLEY: And the critical difference is for all the experience of Joe Biden and his team, we're in a health crisis. We're in a jobs crisis and

economic crisis. There is not a moment to lose. I called it a leadership vacuum yesterday.

What is the President actually doing, John? Is he meeting with the Coronavirus Taskforce? It's frightening to look at the numbers that we're

seeing right now and to feel that, that no one cares, quite frankly.

HARWOOD: Julia, mostly what the President appears to be doing is watching television and taking his phone and tweeting messages to try to rally his

base.

He's had very few official events on his calendar. We only saw him in public in the last several days, yesterday in Veteran's Day observance.

He does not appear to be interested in doing the job of President. To be honest, he hasn't appeared to be interested in doing most of the job as

President throughout his term.

Watching television is a whole lot of what he has done as President, but it's gotten worse now that he knows that he is on the way out.

We believe that the press President recognizes that he is not going to be President after January 20, but he is embarrassed or humiliated by the

election results. So he's trying to kick up dust to cover that humiliation, also give him a cause going forward so he can keep a grip on his base,

possibly run in 2024 or at least get people rallied behind the cause, the made up cause that he had been defrauded out of the election.

[09:10:25]

CHATTERLEY: Yes, time to find some grace, I think for the good of America. John Harwood. Sir, thank you so much for that.

Now, as John was describing, while the wrangling in D.C. continues, the COVID crisis across the United States escalates as Lucy Kafanov reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Record highs across the country. On Wednesday, the United States reporting more than 144,000 new

confirmed coronavirus cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, BIDEN COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: This is exactly what many of us expected what happened after Labor Day, and unfortunately what

we expect is it's going to go much higher than it is now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV (voice over): More than 65,000 patients are hospitalized with the coronavirus right now, the most of the entire pandemic.

Several states reporting their highest case counts to date, including Illinois where Governor JB Pritzker warns he is concerned about the growing

rate of hospitalized coronavirus patients.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): Across the state, the majority of our regions are seeing far higher rates of hospitalizations for COVID-19 than they ever did

last spring.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV (voice over): In North Dakota, the governor announcing hospitals there are at full capacity. And in Ohio, the state saw its second worst day

since the pandemic began, reporting more than 5,800 cases, Governor Mike DeWine re-issuing a statewide mask order despite pushback from the public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): We must do this to protect our frontline workers. I'm very well aware of the burden that this will place on employees. I'm

well aware of the burden this places on the owners.

But these are places candidly where it is difficult or impossible to maintain mask wearing, which we know now is the chief way of slowing this

virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: And despite the relatively low numbers in New York compared to the rest of the country, fears of another lockdown are growing.

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo issuing new restrictions, as the state's test positivity rate is approaching three percent. Bars, restaurants and

gyms will be closing at 10:00 p.m. and indoor gatherings are limiting to 10 people starting Friday.

Here in Utah, the state seeing its highest seven-day average test positivity rate. It now stands at more than 22 percent. These numbers make

the push for a vaccine even more urgent.

After the positive news from Pfizer earlier this week, now, Moderna is reporting that it should know whether its vaccine works by the end of the

month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The thing that we've been dealing with in this country is a

vaccine hesitancy or people really being skeptical about getting vaccinated. That is pretty much overcome when you get a vaccine of such

high degree of efficacy as the Pfizer vaccine which is you know, 90 plus closer to 95 percent efficacious.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: Definitely in need of leadership. Lucy Kafanov reporting for us there. Now compare that to this. In China, shoppers are putting the

pandemic behind them with some record retail therapy.

Alibaba's annual Singles Day shopping extravaganza raked in $74 billion worth of sales.

Selena Wang joins us. Selina, we should be clear, it was 11 days with two discount windows. But I was just trying to find some perspective here. It's

the same sales as Target, the American retailer does all year. Wow.

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Julia. And you did say that correctly, more than $70 billion in sales. But this is not an apples

to apples comparison from last year as you said because it includes this pre-sale period that Alibaba created in order to juice more growth for

those brands that were hit hard by the pandemic.

But as Oliver Wyman's research assessment put it, it is clear that Chinese shoppers are still continuing to, quote, "spend like crazy." Some analysts

think these numbers are proof that spending in China has not only rebounded from those pre-COVID levels, but actually surpassed them.

But again, it is hard to use this one-off event as a barometer for that post-COVID rebound because as we discussed yesterday, it is hard to know

how much of the spending these people are actually stockpiling and taking advantage of those deep discounts.

But it is, Julia, clear that some of these people are using this opportunity for that retail therapy for indulgent shopping because they

have been able to save money during the pandemic because they haven't been able to travel abroad when Chinese consumers spent heavily on luxury goods.

So instead, they have been purchasing it online during Singles Day.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's quite fascinating and we shall see whether it can continue. Selena Wang, thank you so much for that.

Now, stay with FIRST MOVE, too for more on China's record at shopping spree. I spoke to Alibaba's President Michael Evans and that interview is

coming up later on in the show.

[09:15:19]

CHATTERLEY: For now, let me bring you up to speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.

Coronavirus cases are surging even in countries that once thought they have the virus under control. Japan is now warning of a third wave while

Britain's death toll has surpassed 50,000 lives and Italy has become the 10th country with over one million confirmed cases.

Tropical Storm Eta is moving across Florida, hitting the state for a second time after coming ashore early this morning. It brought heavy winds and

rain to the Tampa area causing significant flooding in some places.

Eta previously made landfall in Central America and Cuba.

All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, Europe's largest industrial cautious on a COVID-19 recovery. We speak to the CEO of Siemens, next.

And much, much colder than ice. We take a look at the challenges of a sub- zero vaccine cold chain.

Stay with us. These are coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York where it is still looking like a mostly lower start for the U.S. stock market majors.

Investors rotated back into tech stocks yesterday after two days of value stock supremacy. The NASDAQ rising two percent and we could see continued

gains for the tech sector today, though, as you could see there, it's a pretty muted gain so far.

The COVID crisis also still weighing on economically sensitive airlines. Emirates today reporting first half losses of almost $3.5 billion. Help

will be needed from Dubai it seems.

In the meantime, German engineering giant, Siemens also sounding a note of caution on the COVID-19 recovery. In its earnings reports, the company says

customer investments will lag behind the economic recovery as companies continue to deal with the fallout from the pandemic.

And I'm pleased to say, Joe Kaeser, CEO of Siemens is joining us now. This is the company's final set of results, too, under his leadership.

Joe, fantastic to have you with us on the show. You remain relatively cautious as you have --

JOE KAESER, CEO, SIEMENS: Good morning, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Good morning -- as you have throughout this set this pandemic, and I think that makes sense. But you know, when I look at your

earnings report across the three businesses, relative to your peer group, these look like solid numbers and China is a bright spot. Can you and are

you confident enough to say, the worst is behind us?

[09:20:41]

KAESER: Well, first of all, I'm obviously very proud and clear that we have been able to finish our fiscal Q4 in a successful way. It's a great

achievement of our teams.

It gives us a good baseline for the challenges and the opportunities, which we have going forward into fiscal 2021. And I agree with you, I mean, I

believe it's prudent now to be a bit cautious about the second wave will do.

We have learned a lot from the first one, so we have experience on how to manage our business and the supply chain. However, of course, we also need

to look at demand on a global scale.

So that's why our outlook has been somewhat cautious. But I think it's better to under promise and over deliver and time will tell, you know, what

we can do?

CHATTERLEY: What are you seeing from customers at this moment? I mean, your biggest revenue base in the Americas is, of course, the United States.

In Asia, it is China. In Europe, it is Germany.

What are you seeing from customers? Anything that gives you real concern amid the rising COVID cases that we're seeing?

KAESER: Yes, well, you know, Julia, on a general note, we are in the capital investment business. So we are making products where people invest,

so they put a lot of eggs into their basket, when they choose to invest in to new power plants or in to new automotive plants.

So this needs confidence and reassurance, and if you're just about to go into the second wave of COVID, nowadays, there is not that much confidence

about making big decisions on capital goods. So that's the downside.

The upside is that we see massive growth in China. In the fourth quarter alone, we had a 22 percent increase year-over-year in orders and a 30

percent increase year-over-year on revenues, and that seems to continue somewhat, maybe less dynamic, as we have seen it in the last quarter. But

October already looks like it is continuing, so that's a positive.

If you look at the United States, obviously, you know with the pandemic and some uncertainty on the political matter when things -- when the dust

settles down, we must not underestimate the power of a stimulus package worth $2 trillion.

And if I get that one somewhat right, I think the new administration looks into renewable energy, energy efficiency, infrastructure, public

transportation, so those are big ticket items, which could actually benefit the cabinet goods sector, the confidence, as well as of course, Siemens

because we are market leaders in those segments.

So there is a lot of bright spots, but we are very careful, because the value chain and supply chain is so internationally sophisticated that it

doesn't do any good if Germany does well or other countries do well in the pandemic, and you know, other ones don't do that well.

So that's why I believe we are well-advised to be cautious. Look at the opportunities. Be very alert, adaptive and quick, in order to grab the

opportunities.

And as I said, the U.S. offers a lot of potential. The weakest spot, unfortunately, is Europe, I have to say, with the automotive being somewhat

down in the middle of a transformation, confidence is not that high, because every country in Europe does its own thing, rather than sticking

together and get the power of Europe to work.

So I think the jury is really out on what 2021 will look like, but again, we finished very strong. We have a lot of confidence. We have got good

people for technology and we are all over the place in the whole world.

So I believe it's fair to say that we should actually outperform competition going forward, because that's at the end, what really counts.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to say as far as Europe is concerned, you and I long discussed the fact that that Europe tends to go its own ways,

and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

Joe, let's talk about what you said about the $2 trillion stimulus. You're talking about a new package in the United States. Are you anticipating and

hopeful that that perhaps can be agreed before the end of the year or do you see that mostly likely coming in the first half of next year?

Because clearly I think if you look at the economy in the United States, more support is needed.

[09:25:10]

KAESER: Well, I mean, again, there is a -- you know, there's quite a lot of causes there, so we have a multi-causational environment, especially in

the United States.

I believe the political leadership needs to straighten out where we are going, finally, eventually, that will certainly give some confidence on

what the direction ought to be. Secondly, to put the stimulus package to work, it will take time.

On the other hand, you know, there's so much infrastructural demand in the United States, be it public transport, be it modern energy efficient power

lines, and associated matters, so we can act rather quickly.

And the other thing is that, you know, once we can book the order, you know, we can actually keep our people in the job, because we know it's

going to get better and we have a perspective going forward.

So I'm reasonably optimistic, I believe on the United States. It has been the powerhouse of the world if it comes to getting themselves out of

trouble all the time. And I bank on that, also, that it happens, it takes time.

CHATTERLEY: He says, with a hopeful smile. Joe, talk to me about trade, because this is one of the other critical elements, not only when you're

talking about infrastructure, but also global investment and we have been through a period, particularly between the United States and China, but

also the United States and Europe, let's be clear of trade tensions.

Do you hope and do you assume if we do see a President-elect Biden become a President Biden, that some of those tensions will calm?

KAESER: Well, I mean, look, we are now going into big politics, obviously, which is a bit out of the space I actually am supposed to be

covering.

But I mean, let's face it, big companies, especially, you know, like us, which are all over the place. We've got 50,000 people in the United States

on $26 billion revenues, we are double digit billions in China, and still are a European company. Of course, we are watching, you know, what's going

on in that trial, so to speak.

I mean, for our point of view, if it comes to the Chinese-United States economic debate, I'm not sure that there is going to be an underlying

change on that matter.

The rhetoric may change, maybe even the predictability on what's going to happen, but the underlying thing is, this is a fight and the struggle about

who is going to be the number one economic powerhouse in the future. And so that's an understandable topic.

Now, the question is, where does that leave Europe? I mean, first of all, the question would be, which Europe? Because currently, we have 27 plus one

countries, which are all trying to do their own thing, rather than getting together, come out with a meaningful foreign economic policy to have a seat

on the table, together with China and the United States. So that's the underlying topic.

Now what can be changed? What can be changed? We need to hope that President-elect Biden reinforces the ties between Europe and the United

States on both the understanding on national security, obviously, as well as the understanding on fair and multilateral trade.

Should that happen, which I believe is a desirable thing that Europe and the U.S. get closer together and also on trade and economic matters, I

believe that China will also ease its way of debating the new world trade economic order.

So I'm very hopeful that this will, you know, move in to the right direction because that would help the whole world if we can foster

multilateralism and of course, free and fair trade going forward.

It helps everybody. It keeps the jobs. It is good for society and eventually, good for the people.

CHATTERLEY: Joe, I have to say for someone who didn't want to talk about politics, you're very good at navigating that. Perhaps we're looking at a

future in politics for you at some point soon.

And I am only half joking.

KAESER: Well, you have made it easy on me, so thank you for that.

CHATTERLEY: I was going to say, you've led Siemens for seven years. I mentioned at the beginning of the interview, this is your last earnings

report.

The company has changed dramatically, I think in the last seven years under your stewardship. Are you confident that not only you're leaving it in good

hands and I know you feel you are, but that you're in a strong position going forward?

KAESER: Yes, we have been in a strong position. We have been working really hard, the last seven to eight years. And when I started the job as

CEO of the company, I said I wanted to two things, among other things, but the two most relevant topics were first, you know, to hand over this

company in a better shape as I have been getting it from my predecessor.

[09:30:13]

KAESER: And the other thing was that I do want to have a long term meaningful transition to my successor. And I think on both areas, we are

doing reasonably well.

Could it have been more? Yes, absolutely. Should it have been more? Probably.

The point, though, is, you know, we always need to balance between the doable and the desirable. In many ways, I've thought, I'm way too slow, and

not fast enough, I'm not good enough.

But on the other hand, you know, if you don't have your team moving along, if you don't get your employees to get into the strategy, it doesn't do any

good.

So I think after all, we have prepared the company for the next decade, for the biggest transformation of all time. We call it the Fourth Industrial

Revolution, or the Internet of Things.

We have three strong, powerful companies: energy, healthcare, and industrial Siemens.

So, I mean, the stage is set for the next level of ultimate performance.

CHATTERLEY: The stage is set.

KAESER: And that's in a sense what I have been trying to achieve and --

CHATTERLEY: And we'll see what comes. Joe, I have to cut you off there because I've spent too long talking to you and I'm going to crash into the

end of a break.

It was a pleasure to speak to, sir.

KAESER: Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: And we will speak again, no doubt. Stay safe. Joe Kaeser there, the CEO of Siemens.

The market opens next. Stay with this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:34:34]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE and U.S. stocks are up and running this Thursday, a mostly lower start as investors hit the pause on

the value stock rally that was all the rage earlier this week.

The U.S. reporting a record 144,000 new COVID cases yesterday, a fresh warning I think to investors that the health and economic crises could

worsen dramatically before vaccines are ultimately distributed.

All of this comes amid news that an additional 709,000 Americans filed for jobless claims last week, a slower rise than expected, but we remain

historically high levels and the International Energy Agency issued a fresh economic warning today, too saying a significant bounce in oil demand won't

come until quote, "well into next year," even, even with a vaccine.

[09:35:23]

Okay, let's get to some better news. Alibaba's record breaking Singles Day event showing China's economic recovery in action with consumers willing to

splash the cash even amid a pandemic.

Just to recap some of those staggering numbers, a record breaking sales of roughly $74 billion through the 11-day period, spending is returning to

pre-pandemic levels as consumers treat themselves and Chinese firms aren't the only ones to benefit.

A growing number of Western brands are joining in, eyeing a massive opportunity for growth in tough times.

Alibaba, President Michael Evans explains these phenomenal numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL EVANS, PRESIDENT, ALIBABA: If you step back and say what happened, I think it is several things. First of all, China is clearly in the post-

pandemic environment and a post-pandemic economy, consumers are back to pre-COVID levels of consumption, which is obviously a big part of what has

driven this result.

I also think that we had a very, very different approach this year to brands, and also to consumers. So we moved from what I call a two-

dimensional approach with brands, which is basically text and pictures to a multidimensional approach, which means live streaming, short video content,

gaming, things that are very engaging and interactive with the customer.

And the consumer saw something very different this year as well, which is much more immersive, much more content driven, and much more of an

interactive experience.

And, you know, this is what we think is the future of lifestyle, not shopping, but the lifestyle of the consumer in China, and therefore the way

that they wish to participate in our global shopping festival.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's incredible. I mean, 800 million consumers, let's be clear, two million new products, 250,000 new brands. I know one of the

other big elements here and you've alluded to it with the opportunities that are represented here in terms of foreign sellers, particularly sellers

in the United States, but elsewhere, attaching and finding the Chinese consumer here.

Talk to me about the effort that you've made to bring on new brands to identify new products and enable some of those sellers from other countries

to access a burgeoning Chinese consumer here that's clearly willing to spend.

EVANS: Well, it's very interesting. Of those 250,000 brands that participated, about 26,000 of them came from outside of China. And they

come from 84 different countries. So the world is participating in this Shopping Festival.

I think the second thing that's important is thousands of those are in the U.S., and that includes also hundreds and hundreds of small businesses that

we've connected directly to the Chinese consumer as well.

The one thing that many of those 84 countries share is that COVID has caused real stress for retailers and small businesses in almost all of

those countries.

And so developing a digital strategy and finding a way to connect to the Chinese consumer through our platform has been in many cases, a way to

survive, and in some cases, a way to prosper in what continues to be a very difficult retail environment in most countries, including the United

States.

So one of the things that we're most proud of, because we do good work for the Apples and the Estee Lauder and the Nikes and the really big brands,

but to be able to take small businesses like Uncle Bud or All Birds or Bissell or Pipit or Fender, you know, or CO Bigelow, the oldest pharmacy in

the United States is on our platform in China.

To be able to do good things for them is a huge part of our mission today and in the future.

CHATTERLEY: And I have to say, I've spoken to some of them, and they are hugely excited about the opportunity. I think if -- and it's a bird's eye

view, but if we look at the broader market here, 25 percent of retail sales are online in China.

If I look at the United States, it's what -- 10 to 15 percent. Even just in terms of expanding your consumer base here by being online and using a

platform like yours is a vital opportunity at this moment in time when, as you say during a pandemic, it is a struggle anyway for many of these small

businesses.

EVANS: You know, when I talk to CEOs of brands and small businesses, not just in the U.S. but around the world, they are all very conscious of two

important things.

The first is that if you don't have a China strategy, you're missing out on what might potentially be a very significant trade channel, and connection

to a brand new consumer base in the future.

And the second thing is that they have to have a digital strategy in the post-pandemic environment, because otherwise, their stores are closed, and

they cannot stay in business.

So I think these two points have become very real for brands all over the world and certainly for brands and small businesses in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: More Michael Evans coming up after the break, where we will talking U.S. and China politics, and that delayed Ant IPO. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:55]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE from China's economic recovery to a shifting political landscape, of course, I am talking about China's

relationship with a future potential President Biden and what it means for businesses bridging East and West. Here's the view of Alibaba's President

Michael Evans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EVANS: Well, I think that our U.S. strategy has remained unchanged for the last five years and will remain unchanged going forward.

So it is really independent of who the President of the United States is and the reason is, that the strategy is very simple, and this is where we

spend 95 percent of our time, which is connect those small businesses, those brands, those retailers, the farmers, connect them all to the Chinese

consumer directly.

It doesn't matter whether it's Alaskan King Crab or the latest cleaning products from Bissell, or a Fender guitar, or Uncle Bud CBD products.

All of these are in demand on the platform and this is what we do and this is what we will continue to do.

And just in the last couple of months, we've put an additional 200 brands on the platform as people start to realize that China is a very important

sales channel for them and it's a way to directly connect to the consumer.

So the strategy is going to remain unchanged.

[09:45:17]

CHATTERLEY: With great success and great growth also comes great scrutiny, and I can't help but notice the share prices of some of the Big

Tech giants, yours included, over the past few days with concerns perhaps about seeing the authorities move over dominance, antitrust issues.

We've obviously seen it in the E.U., we're talking about it here in the United States. How worried are you about potential regulatory increases,

antitrust issues in China for Alibaba?

EVANS: Okay, I think from an antitrust standpoint, these are new proposals, not laws, but proposals that have been put in front of the

public for comment.

It's going to take some time, probably through the end of November, before we finish the public comment process, and probably more time after that to

get clarity.

So it's very difficult, and not particularly fruitful to sort of speculate on what the outcome will be.

But we see the same issue in many countries, not just in China. So this is not -- this is not unique by any means to China.

I think on the financial situation, I think there, it is very interesting, because innovation in any industry, in any country, needs to keep pace with

what is happening in the regulatory environment and the regulatory environment needs to continue to evolve and adapt as well.

So, again, not unique to China, by any means. We see it everywhere in the world. But the key, I think is two things. The first is, we must have close

collaboration and work closely with the regulators to make sure that the framework for the regulatory environment is done properly.

And we need transparency of the regulatory environment to ensure that everybody understands the rules, and can work within them.

CHATTERLEY: I couldn't agree more on those points. You mentioned Ant there and I just wanted to ask you again, because clearly, there was great

expectation and speculation in it remains.

So any sense of timing? Can you give us any sense of timing about when we may see that IPO in the near future?

EVANS: No, we don't have a view on that today. I think, first things first, which is clarity on the regulatory environment.

CHATTERLEY: Right.

EVANS: And timing will be driven after that.

CHATTERLEY: Make sense to me. Final question because I have to let you go. What was the best selling product in the Singles 11 days because I

mean, I was looking down the list and you can get anything from a house to a car, whatever products you want, you can find. What was the bestselling

product?

EVANS: Well, I'm not going to tell you what the bestselling product, but we have 250,000 brands on the platform, there would be 249,999, who would

be very upset if we gave out the brand for the benefit of the marketing.

But I will tell you that the big selling categories, I'll give you the sort of top two or three are clearly fashion and apparel, beauty, mother and

baby. The products which have always been the bestselling and the biggest selling products on the platform.

And those brands are out in force, making sure that they sell not only the things that they're used to selling but also innovating and focusing and

showing, displaying their new products that are bespoke to the Chinese consumer.

So it is a great period to innovate and learn. Do a lot of R&D at scale as part of our global shopping festival.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I thought you were going to say come to the platform and see for yourself, Julia. You could have said that, too.

EVANS: Please come to the platform.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: All right, coming up on FIRST MOVE, vaccine science is one challenge, storage and distribution is quite another. How companies are

tackling it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:08]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. If you joined us on the show yesterday, you might remember the conversation with the CEO of Trane

Technologies, the firm with cold storage expertise, who described the challenges of keeping the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine at a temperature lower

than found on Mars.

Well, Anna Stewart has been looking at how firms in the supply chain are responding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALBERT BOURLA, CEO, PFIZER: We are in a very, very good situation. We have 1.3 billion doses global again next year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER (voice over): Millions of doses have already been, made ready to go should the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine candidate get

regulatory approval.

This one uses messenger RNA, a new technology, which poses a major challenge to storage and transportation of the vaccine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BURKHARDT, SVP, GLOBAL DRUG SAFETY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, PFIZER: We have to keep the product very cold and chipped in very much sub- freezing temperatures, then there will be a short term instability, perhaps at refrigerated temperatures and that's going to be a logistical challenge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART (voice over): Logistics firms like UPS, FedEx and Deutsche Post DHL started planning for this months ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSCAR DE BOK, CEO, DHL SUPPLY CHAIN: We have above 9,000 healthcare specialists around the globe, about 140 certified warehouses around the

globe, got another hundred terminals that are certified for healthcare.

We also had to make some specific investments in minus 80 degrees, storage points and containers to be able to distribute. So those are all things

that we have to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART (voice over): These firms are a critical link between the pharmaceutical firms and governments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DE BOK: What we have to focus on is our interaction with our customers, when they say that we need to be ready, we are working and we are planning

accordingly to that and we will be ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART (voice over): Logistics firms may be ready to transport a COVID- 19 vaccine, some countries may not be ready to receive it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOBY PETERS, PROFESSOR OF COLD ECONOMY, UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM: This challenge is probably the biggest logistical challenge we've ever faced,

regardless of the temperature, minus 80 adds another dynamic and another problem.

You know, I am being told that this vaccine isn't really designed and being expected to be used in low and middle income countries. That personally

concerns me because we should be making sure that we deliver vaccine equitably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART (voice over): Other promising COVID-19 vaccine candidates are nearing the end of Phase 3 trials and they won't all need sub-zero storage.

They will however, all need huge logistical support to make it all the corners of the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: Anna Stewart joins us now from London. Ana, great job looking at this year. It is funny, when I was having the conversation with

Trane Technology yesterday, I was thinking the ones that need cold storage, the super cold storage. That's fine for developed nations. For poorer

nations, we're going to have to use different vaccines.

STEWART: This is the thing and we've heard it right from the beginning of the pandemic, but no one is safe until everyone is safe.

You don't just need a vaccine for those mature markets that have ultra-cold supply chains in place. You also need them for the rest of the world.

We've been speaking so much, Julia this week about vaccine efficacy with the good news from Pfizer-BioNTech. But we need to also keep in mind,

vaccine equity. How can we ensure that there are vaccines right across the world?

And this is something that there are global organizations like CEPI, GAVI, the W.H.O., the Gates Foundation have all been working on and are hoping to

secure plenty of supplies, but it really depends on which vaccines will work well.

Clearly, from the reporting on Pfizer, you can see that different types of vaccine will work better for different markets.

[09:55:07]

STEWART: Now fortunately, there are currently 10 vaccine candidates that are in Phase 3 trials, most of them actually nearing the end of those

trials.

If they are successful, this could be really good news in terms of having different types of vaccines for different sorts of areas.

The big question, will some be more effective than others? And that's if and it's a huge if, of course, more than one actually makes it through all

of the hurdles and gets regulatory approval. We're still not there yet. We are still weeks away -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, science, number of doses, the conditions that they have to exist in and cost is the other angle here, Ana, as well. Lots of

important questions. Thank you so much for your work on that. Anna Stewart.

All right. That's it for the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe. We'll see you very soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

END