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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Global Stocks Mixed, Vaccine News Lending Support; The U.S. Treasury is Cutting Funding to the Fed Emergency Program; Trump Campaign Drops Federal Lawsuit in Michigan. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:22]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Live from New York, a very good morning to you. I'm Richard quest. And here's what you need to know as we end the

week. It is a Friday.

The vaccine is getting closer. Pfizer is now to apply for Emergency Use Authorization. That's going to happen anytime now.

The Feds fury. As the U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin asks for his money back from the various bailout schemes.

And the flight plan. Virgin Atlantic talks to us about how they hope to move forward with a vaccine and get planes back in the air.

It is Friday, as Julia would say. Let's make a move.

A warm welcome to FIRST MOVE. I am Richard Quest, in again for Julia today. She is back on Monday.

A look at the global markets and how they are trading today. It's a mixed picture overall, bearing in mind the undercurrent. I am surprised that

things are holding off as well as they are.

The futures are showing slightly lower, down a quarter of a percent. The NASDAQ is up. So you get an idea. The NASDAQ is up, Dow and S&P are down.

The reasons? Well, they're all the same reasons we've had all week.

But if you look at Europe, you'll see that conflicting undertones of the market, Europe is higher across the board. Japanese stocks were down, but

others in the region were higher and that gives you an idea of exactly the sort of mismatch that we are seeing in the markets.

The vaccine news has been lending support. Pfizer and BioNTech is to seek U.S. approval today to begin vaccinations. It'll be on an emergency use

basis. And of course, Moderna is expected to follow very soon with similar.

Other challenges for investors today, a record 187,000 new virus cases in the U.S. The death toll was the highest since May. And there are record

number of cases in Germany and Japan.

U.S. jobless claims were rising. The Treasury is fighting the Fed. And as you get an idea of what's happening today, new data showing U.S. economy

may be slowing.

The U.S. Treasury is cutting funding to the Fed emergency program. Steve Mnuchin says that the program has achieved their objectives. The Federal

Reserve is strongly criticizing the decision. Matt Egan is with me to talk about this.

Matt, the situation with the Fed and why -- why is the Treasury asking for the money back?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR WRITER: Richard, that's a great question. This is a very good time to take the training wheels off the economy and

the financial markets. As you just pointed out, coronavirus infections are at all-time highs in the United States, the economy is weakening, and so

that's why even the Federal Reserve was surprised that the Treasury Secretary wants to take back some of these unused funds that were part of

emergency programs.

The Fed issued this pretty rare statement last night, saying that they would have preferred that this money would have stayed in place as a

backstop.

Now, as far as why this is happening, Treasury is right. Some of this money was unused and the programs have been effective. But that doesn't mean the

money should go away. Remember that the Fed actually was able to unfreeze credit markets without even firing a shot.

The mere promise that the Fed would buy corporate debt, including junk bonds was enough to unlock financial markets, even companies like Carnival

were able to borrow. And so that brings another question about why this is happening.

I've got to read you what the typically Republican-friendly Chamber of Commerce said in response to this news, they put out a statement and they

said that these political machinations would quote, "Prematurely and unnecessarily tie the hands of the incoming administration."

Richard, this appears to be yet another bizarre chapter in what can only be described as a debacle of a presidential transition.

QUEST: Okay, so is it -- Matt, I mean, let's get to this, is it as sort of a yah boo sucks, we're taking our money back, move by Mnuchin or is there -

- I mean, even though the Fed doesn't like it and would like to have the firepower, is there an argument for saying, no, take the money back as

Mnuchin says, and let Congress -- Congress-- redeploy that money where they feel best.

[09:05:16]

EGAN: In a vacuum, yes. But we're dealing with a very divided Washington right now. They can't even agree on who the next President is come January

20th. They have for months not been able to agree on how much money and how to spend it on another fiscal bill.

So it sort of seems like a risky gambit here to take money that has already been allocated for programs that are working at a time when the economy is

weakening, and say, let's see if Congress can figure out how better to use this money, because clearly, they haven't really been able to agree on much

of anything right now.

And so that's why I really was surprised to see the response from the Fed. You know, typically, these kinds of disagreements as you know, Richard are

hashed out behind the scenes, and in this case, we have this public disagreement where the Fed chief is saying, you know, listen, this is not

what we think should happen. I think that is pretty telling here -- Richard.

QUEST: All right. Thank you, Matt Egan, talking to us there.

Now to the fact that the Georgia results are to be certified after a recount, a hand recount that essentially didn't move many votes and kept

the result firmly for Joe Biden. Joe Johns is with us to talk about this.

Now, we always knew that it was highly unlikely that many votes would be moved. I think it's about 300 to 400, in a recount, on average gets moved

across. So they have now done that recount. They've got that result. Joe Johns, tell me what happens next?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're talking about Georgia now, right, I jumped onto -- in the middle of your lead in there.

If you're talking about Georgia, the next step would be for the electors to meet in the State of Georgia, and that occurs on or about December 8th and

they vote to recognize Joe Biden as the winner of the election in their state and that moves on to Washington from there. That's generally what the

procedure is.

But there could still be, you know, any number of attacks from the White House on this. Interesting, we have to point out that what's going on here

today, sort of the chaos of the moment at the White House, is waiting to find out if both or one or neither of the legislators who are at the top of

the Michigan legislature will show up here at the White House for a meeting. They have been invited for the President to discuss the election

in Michigan with them.

It's kind of clear that the House Speaker of Michigan isn't sure if he is coming because he hasn't confirmed for the meeting. But apparently the

majority leader is coming. The majority leader of that state has said he is not interested in overturning the election in that state.

So the question, of course, would be whether the President reaches out to legislators in the State of Georgia to see if they might do what Michigan

apparently is not going to do. That sounds like the President's latest ploy, if you will -- Richard.

QUEST: Joe, I think I asked you this yesterday, and I'm not sure-- I mean, one needs further in understanding. What is the endgame here? I mean, from

what you're hearing from where you are, it seems there is just about nobody of authority or integrity who believes that this is anything or can have

any possibility of success? What is the endgame?

JOHNS: Well, colleagues here at CNN say it is pretty clear to the President that he has lost the election. But nonetheless, they have talked to people

who say the President's endgame, his long term position is to attempt to undermine the presidency of Joe Biden, to delegitimize him as sort of out

of revenge because the President feels that his own administration, his own presidency was delegitimized during, for example, the Russia investigation,

and it is payback time.

Of course, you have to point out that it was the President himself who invited Russia to help him out on the election. He did it in a very public

way during the campaign. So, it was the President's own accent words that led to the Russian investigation, led to the delegitimizing, if you will,

if that happened of his presidency -- Richard.

[09:10:16]

QUEST: Joe Johns who is at the White House. Joe, thank you for coming up so quickly on that one.

Now to the highest number of COVID cases in the United States since May. We're getting numbers of 186,000 cases in the last 24 hours, and more than

2,000 people have died according to Johns Hopkins University.

The rise in the number of cases comes across almost all of the country and it comes as the C.D.C. is urging Americans not to travel this Thanksgiving.

Adrienne Broaddus reports from Chicago.

Tape

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): An onslaught of coronavirus cases spiraling out of control across the United States. The

U.S. reported more than 187,000 new cases Thursday, a new daily high for the country, and more than 2,000 Americans reported dead from the virus.

The influential model from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation now predicts about 471,000 Americans will die from the virus by next March

if behaviors don't change. The modeling group warning that quote, "The pace of the increase is faster than we expected."

BILL GATES, CO-CHAIR, BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION: We'll look back and say why couldn't we convince people to just stay the course until we

got up to that very high vaccination level.

BROADDUS (voice over): More than 80,000 patients are in the hospital with the virus, and on Thursday, the C.D.C. urging Americans a new guidance,

don't travel next week for Thanksgiving.

DR. HENRY WALKE, COVID-19 INCIDENT MANAGER, C.D.C.: What's at stake is basically the increased chance of one of your loved ones becoming sick and

then being hospitalized and dying.

BROADDUS (voice over): White House Coronavirus Taskforce member, Dr. Deborah Birx issuing this plea to all Americans.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: This is really a call to action for every American to increase their vigilance. But

this is more cases, more rapidly than what we had seen before.

BROADDUS (voice over): It comes as states race to implement new regulations to try to stem the spread, including California, it issued a 10:00 p.m.

curfew for about 94 percent of its population for the next month.

In Illinois, the entire state is now entering a new phase of restrictions.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): Outside of things you have to leave home for like school, work and groceries, we are asking everyone to stay home as

much as you can.

BROADDUS (voice over): On the vaccine front, AstraZeneca released encouraging news on its vaccine, finding it produced a strong immune

response in older individuals as well as younger.

Dr. Anthony Fauci is confident in the preliminary data of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines as well.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Help is on the way. If you're fighting a battle and the cavalry

is on the way, you don't stop shooting, you keep going until the cavalry gets here and then you might even want to continue fighting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Dr. Fauci there. Now to the stories making news around the world.

India is reporting more than nine million coronavirus cases in total and the capital of New Delhi is seeing a surge, but the country as a whole has

seen a steady decline in number of new cases recorded over the past few weeks.

The State of South Australia has lifted a lockdown early after learning that a COVID positive person misled contact tracers. The person told the

authorities they had been at a pizza restaurant briefly, when in reality they were working there regularly.

Now, why is this significant? Well, that false information led officials to believe the virus strain was highly contagious, and the person had caught

it despite a very short period of exposure.

Mike Pompeo has arrived in Abu Dhabi, the fifth stop on his visit to Europe and the Middle East. He did what no previous U.S. Secretary of State have

done before, he visited a Jewish settlement in the West Bank. International Law considers the settlements illegal.

Coming up on FIRST MOVE, Pfizer and BioNTech is submitting their application for emergency authorization to use their vaccine. I'll speak to

an F.D.A. Commissioner about what comes next.

And determining how long COVID-19 immunity lasts. A new study suggests it is more or could be more than six months. That and more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:39] QUEST: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE, I'm Richard Quest, in again for Julia Chatterley at the end of the week, and a look at the markets and how the

futures are moving and the futures are pointing to mostly lower open across the board. Or it has been a bit of a mixed bag. You've got to down, you've

got the broader market that is lower and the Dow that's lower on the -- well, I'm saying that, but look even as we're speaking, the NASDAQ futures

are going through zero.

Little change for the week so far. It's all about vaccine hopes on one hand and fears of economic slowdowns on the other. Investors' uncertainty as the

Fed and the U.S. Treasury are clashing. The Treasury has asked for its money back, the Fed says, not so fast. That money is still needed.

Stephen Mnuchin defends the move. He says the programs will always set to expire at the end of the year and he says that they can be reactivated if

needed.

Pfizer and BioNTech have to submit a vaccine application for emergency use approval. Now, we already know that they are the first to do so. The

company said the final analysis shows 95 percent effective. It could be available by the end of the year. A decision will be made by the F.D.A.

Mark McClellan is former F.D.A. Commissioner, now Professor at Duke University. Professor, we know that everybody said the most important thing

is safety, of course. In your view from afar, but in your view, has the case being made by Pfizer, and one imagines Moderna shortly thereafter for

Emergency Use Authorization.

MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER F.D.A. COMMISSIONER: Well, it's really following guidance from the F.D.A., Richard, which is despite the fact that this

vaccine is getting to the F.D.A. in record time, there haven't been many corners cut at all in evidence that the F.D.A. is requiring that it is in

fact safe and effective.

So you talk about the data on effectiveness, it is really pretty impressive if that holds up when it is reviewed by the F.D.A. On the safety side, this

trial that Pfizer has conducted has involved over 40,000 people and they have been followed for some time, months, after receiving two doses of the

vaccine and the vast majority of at least serious side effects after a vaccine happen in that time window and so far apparently nothing there --

nothing there of major consequence.

There are some steps ahead. There will be a public review by independent experts of the information Pfizer submits. So people are going to be

pouring over that data just to make sure there are not any important safety signals, and that should give people a lot of confidence if in the end, the

F.D.A. does end up authorizing this vaccine next month.

QUEST: The head of Operation Warp Speed said to me earlier this week, he said that it would be unethical to wait longer. He says the data is so

strong, and as you well know, and be very familiar, most problems happen in the first month, 40 to 50 days. To wait longer would be unethical,

particularly when you think that 1,800 people died yesterday in the United States.

MCCLELLAN: Yes, the figures in the U.S. right now are really staggering. This is by far the worst surge, the broadest surge we've seen the pandemic.

We knew this was coming and it would be great to have some help.

I would emphasize though that the vaccine isn't going to get us through this surge. It's going to -- when it starts to become available, it will

first go to the people who are most likely to benefit. That's healthcare workers, people in nursing homes or older individuals who are living in

settings close to others, where we really need to get them some help. That's another reason why I think Dr. Slaoui is right that moving ahead

now, in this stage way with highest risk people first, while we keep getting more information on safety makes a lot of sense.

But Richard, this isn't going to help us get through the current surge. This is going to help us with starting to get more immunity in our

population, you know, later January, February, March. So the months ahead are going to look better gradually.

But we have some really urgent work to do with mitigation measures and other steps like distancing and masks to get through the next month or two.

QUEST: Is it your opinion that the virus is now out of control in the United States?

MCCLELLAN: It is, in many parts of the country. This is our third surge in the United States this year. It is hopefully the last one in this big

acute, very disruptive phase of the pandemic because we do have other steps coming and we've talked about vaccines that are going to gradually help us

get back to normal.

We've also seen progress, Richard, in other therapies. Lilly had a treatment that reduces immune response in very serious individuals approved

for emergency use. Yesterday, we've got manmade versions of the antibodies that the vaccines intend to get people to create that can be used starting

now.

Things are going to get better, but we have virus rates of growth in many parts of the country, not everywhere that are very much out of control and

we are going to see unfortunately continued increases in hospitalizations and deaths. It's really going to strain the healthcare system in many parts

of the country. And we are unfortunately going to need to take further steps to get that under control.

I hope we can do it sooner rather than later. I hope we can do it through a lot of cooperation from the public to get through this very tough weeks

ahead, but it's not going to go on forever.

QUEST: That's -- I was listening to Bill Gates last night speaking to Anderson Cooper, who -- Bill Gates basically said that by this time next

year, or even as we come out of the summer next year, life will be looking very much more normal than it does today, which of course makes sense if

the vaccine is the golden bullet.

I guess, if I understand you correctly, it's just how much misery we need to endure between now and then through social distancing or the lack

thereof?

MCCLELLAN: Yes, well, I certainly want to minimize the misery in the in the short term, too. You know, we've got so many Americans, so many people

around the world who are just tired of this, you know, and that's part of why we're seeing cases surge, not just in America, but in many parts of

Western Europe.

The case rates are unfortunately just as high as in many parts of the U.S., so if we do take some steps now, like wearing masks and distancing, and if

we can help businesses get through, needing to maybe shut down their inside services, restaurants and bars, or at least cut back on them in areas with

lots of outbreaks, if we can handle going to small or no gatherings of any significant number of people, just for a matter of these next four or five

to six weeks that will get us over this surge, then we will be able to start benefiting from the vaccines.

[09:25:20]

MCLELLAN: It's not going to be a golden or silver bullet that you know, all of a sudden makes things better. But as more and more people get immune,

Richard, we're gradually going to see that the risk of infection spread go down. We're gradually going to be able to do more and more things probably

while wearing masks and the like during the first half of next year, do them safely.

And that does mean by the second half of next year, we'll see a more life - - much more like it than it was before. I don't think it's going to be the same, but it's not that far off.

QUEST: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Professor. I appreciate it.

Now, we were just saying that now, the virus being out of control, the White House Coronavirus Taskforce says that the virus is spreading faster

than ever before. Dr. Deborah Birx spoke to Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay asked the doctor whether the policy of containment had been a failure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIRX: I always worry when we have an outcome that none of us want and none of us wanted. You know, did we miss a communication? Did we say it the

wrong way? And I think. really, that's part of the reason why I went out into the states is really understand what they were hearing when we were

speaking and really being in a dialogue and a partnership to really understand how we could do this better together.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Was the lack of testing and the continued inadequate testing the original sin here?

BIRX: It's not only the number of tests and the type of tests, but using them in the optimal way so that we can get the most answers for the

quantity that we have.

Certainly, I'm a big proponent of testing and expanding testing. I actually think testing alone is a public health intervention, and if you constantly

are testing people and isolating the positives, then you have a very different outcome.

If you look at the universities that had mandatory -- mandatory testing, they ended up with less than one percent of their student body infected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Dr. Birx talking to Sanjay Gupta. The market opens at the end of what had been a busy week or the start of what's going to be a trading day

at the end of a busy week. We'll be there for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:43]

QUEST: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE and Wall Street is up and running at the start of Friday's session. This is the way the numbers are. Stocks are

searching for direction. Again, the vaccine news is in focus. Pfizer and BioNTech will each -- or Pfizer and BioNTech together will ask the U.S. for

Emergency Use Approval to begin COVID shots immediately, to begin vaccinating. The finding is due later today.

Another big story for the markets is the U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, he is defending his decision to wind down emergency lending

programs. He says the unused money is needed elsewhere.

The Fed is arguing the programs are still lending support to the economy and are useful in case of an emergency and would be needed again.

The vaccine could be the game changer for the airline industry, which has borne the brunt of course, along with healthcare, but the airline industry,

which to say is being hit by the catastrophe and decimated would be an understatement.

United Airlines says the cases are now taking its toll on the number, the new bookings are stopped, and they are now starting to see some

cancellations as well.

Virgin Atlantic believes that testing is the future and is getting involved in a variety of testing programs. The CEO says that is the future. He was

in London and I asked him about the impact of the lockdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHAI WEISS, CEO, VIRGIN ATLANTIC: But throughout this period, we've actually continued to fly to many locations, and actually, the impact of

the lockdown has been slightly less severe than we anticipated, and actually, in the last few weeks, we've seen an uptick in the speed of

booking.

I guess part of it on the back of the news of the vaccine, but also in the fact that people are now starting to plan for their Easter and summer

holidays and with confidence that we'll be around to serve them. They are indeed booking with us.

QUEST: Yes, because you've now put in place the necessary financing. So, you will get through this crisis and continue, unlike Norwegian, which of

course, it's highly questionable whether they will survive.

On the issue of vaccines. The cargo, and I know that you've put together a new pharma plan, do you hope to be part of the distribution, not just

obviously in the U.K., but taking that vaccine elsewhere, traveling it with your own planes?

WEISS: Well, actually, throughout this crisis, our cargo operations have been phenomenal, serving really our national health service, and of course,

distribution of medicine and PPE equipment. And of course, we all understand now that the vaccine when it is ready for distribution is only

one element of it.

But getting it to many nations will be a logistical issue, and we are right there at the forefront of that with our pharma specific products that we've

been putting in place for this situation, but also it started two to three years ago.

So yes, cargo operations are essential to the distribution of the vaccine. You know, its manufacturer, of course in the U.S. and Belgium, and Germany,

but if you are thinking where it needs to go, this is the largest product launch in the history of mankind. And you know, everybody should do

everything they can to support it. And of course, we're there to do that.

QUEST: Related to this, because travel in 2021 is going to be determined by one of two things. Have you been vaccinated? Or have you had a pre-

departure test? Where I -- I saw American and BA this week, we saw United, all putting in place pre-departure testing for the transatlantic. What are

you going to do?

WEISS: Well, first of all, I think while we're all ferocious competitors in the marketplace, I think our industry is united around the fact that we

need of course to do testing in the short to medium term in the event of the availability of a vaccine and of course for us, testing in the U.K. is

a big issue because in the U.K., as you know, there is a quarantine and corridors are the only way to really travel.

Of course, the U.S. has shut down for people coming out of the U.K. and Europe and when you come back from the U.S., you have to enter quarantine.

So the only way to do this is pre-departure testing, 72 hours pre- departure, and then either upon arrival just to give some comfort to our government.

Actually, in the recent study that we've commissioned together with other industry players, we've actually shown that anything is better than the

quarantine. So any testing regime will be so much more smart and good in terms of the efficacy, because people don't actually adhere to a 14-day

quarantine. Human behavior must be taken there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[09:35:38]

QUEST: The head of Virgin Atlantic there, Shai Weiss talking to me.

After the break, the Swedish model earlier on, it was said to be the way forward by the Swedish government. Now, they've changed their mind. After

the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Saudi Arabia is hosting the G-20 for the first time. It's a virtual meeting, of course because of coronavirus. CNN's Nic Robertson is in

Riyadh.

This was meant to be a sort of a coming out party in a way for Saudi Arabia hosting the G-20. Obviously, they haven't managed to get the Summit that

they wanted. But Nic, if you look at the way the Saudis have run the G-20 for the last six months, for the last year, how do you make that?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, I think there's been an element of they are new to the game of running something

this big.

They have certainly got many hands on the pumps and I have to say at the front end, the sharp end of it here in country, albeit they are dealing

with less people in coming than were expected, it has been a pretty slick operation.

There is certainly a lot of push out of information to the media, a lot of awareness given on all the different meetings that are going on. Obviously,

it's very hard to do.

This is -- no one's kind of done a G-20 in the middle of a pandemic for us, when we come in here. Look, my face mask is in my hand, the Saudis are

really very strict for good reasons that people need to wear face masks all the time. People out on the street will get a fine, if they're not wearing

them.

[09:40:25]

ROBERTSON: When you step inside the center here, you get temperature checks, you know at regular intervals. There are hand sanitizers

everywhere, social distancing is key.

I interviewed the Health Minister a bit before, you know, and I asked him, what's your message for these leaders? Because obviously, COVID-19 is going

to be the biggest issue in front of them. And he said, look, you know, the world health system is as strong as the weakest system.

So his message to them all here, all being -- I am here virtually -- is work together on COVID, build strong structures. But I think the big

takeaway from this G-20 is not going to be so much the medical initiative and working together. But the financial initiative. After all, that's what

the G-20 is about, you know, actually 53 countries represented, and actually, they represent about 85 percent of the world's economy.

And what they will be really focusing on here is trying to help the poorer countries in their economies with a debt service suspension initiative is

what's being talked about, whereby poorer countries get relief on their debt.

And so when you talk about a world system, a world system for that means bringing China into the debt relief game, and that will be significant. So

these are the kind of aims here, but trying to sort of put and host something like that and get everyone in agreement when it's done virtually.

That ain't easy. But so far, so good.

QUEST: Nic Robertson in Riyadh. Thank you. Sweden is suffering from a second COVID wave. The problem in Sweden of course, is the way they handled

the first one.

Now, as you remember, the strategy there was a hands off one. Do not introduce any lockdowns or restrictions other than the basics. The country

was an outlier.

Now the government is advising that there should be some form of lockdown, but it's not mandating it and doctors in the worst hit region are calling

for even stricter measures.

CNN's Phil Black is in Stockholm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A gym in central Stockholm, Sweden's government saying this is dangerous, but it won't shut

them down. Those working hard at this socially distanced class, don't want to stop.

ASA LARSSON, INSTRUCTOR: Workout for me, it's all I've got right now. So I need to -- I need to do this as long as I can and for all the members as

well. They are so happy that we're still doing it.

BLACK (voice over): Perhaps they'd feel differently if they saw this.

Uppsala Hospital, the ICU. A ventilated patient is being prepped for helicopter transfer to another facility with more free beds.

BLACK (on camera): Are you surprised that you're already having to double capacity?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not surprised, no. That is what we expected.

BLACK (voice over): After a quiet summer, the coronavirus is again surging in Sweden.

BLACK (on camera): This isn't like the spring peak. It's nowhere near as intense yet, but it feels to this -- to the staff here so familiar. They

are tired and frustrated because there is a sense that this could have been avoided.

BLACK (voice over): A powerful second wave hasn't changed the essence of Sweden's distinctive approach to slowing the spread. Still, no forced

lockdown, few rules, mostly just advice on social distancing with an emphasis on personal responsibility.

On the front line, they say, it's not enough.

RAFAEL KAWATI, HEAD OF INTENSIVE CARE, UPPSALA UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: We need to put some, you know, consequences for not -- doing this --

BLACK (on camera): Enforcement

KAWATI: Yes, enforcement.

BLACK (voice over): Sweden's official list of recommended behavior is tougher now. It reads more like a voluntary lockdown discouraging all

nonessential mixing.

ANDERS TEGNELL, CHIEF EPIDEMIOLOGIST, SWEDEN: Can you hear me?

BLACK (voice over): But Anders Tegnell, the architect of Sweden's approach admits too many aren't following his advice.

BLACK (on camera): So that's the key difference. Your recommendations aren't enforceable.

TEGNELL: So far, I mean, during the spring, this worked really well. We managed to get people to stop meeting each other to a great extent. If we

can get back to that level of follow up on our advice, I think we can handle the situation also during this fall.

BLACK (on camera): Go and flex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BLACK: Make him look angry.

BLACK (voice over): Tegnell is lionized here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has been our like national hero in this crisis. He had put out guidelines that have kept our freedom.

BLACK (voice over): There is broad support for the country's policies. Even though officials admit Sweden failed its elderly, almost 90 percent of

people who have died so far were over 70 and Sweden's total death toll is more than four times the combined figure of its Nordic neighbors, all of

which embraced tougher measures.

But even among the sick you meet advocate for prioritizing freedom. Anders Idswik (ph) knows the suffering COVID-19 can cause.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It should have been too easy to close down the society, I believe.

BLACK (voice over): Sweden is sticking with a model that relies on consent instead of legal force. But it's now asking people to voluntarily give up

more than ever before, and it's not yet clear they are willing to do.

Phil Black, CNN, Stockholm.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And such the question of how much immunity we all have, if we actually go once you've had coronavirus? The latest study suggests that

immunity might be more than six months or longer. That's if the antibodies last that long.

Joining me is Professor Alessandro Sette from the La Jolla Institute for Immunology, who led the study. According to it, if you look at the way 185

adults aged 19 to 81 and they'd all had COVID. And Professor, I had coronavirus. I have the antibodies, excuse me, and then one of my latest

tests show that the antibodies had disappeared, or they were no longer detectable. Does this mean I'm now at risk again?

ALESSANDRO SETTE, PROFESSOR, LA JOLLA INSTITUTE FOR IMMUNOLOGY: Well, whether you are at risk again or not is not known, and certainly as a

general rule, we recommend people regardless of whether they had antibodies or not keep on social distancing and wearing masks.

But let me backtrack for a second and talk about what does it mean to have immunity? Immune responses are made of four different main components. We

have the antibodies that you mentioned. There are the B-cells that are the cells that make antibodies, and then there are T-cells that come in two

flavors, healer cells and helper cells.

So the antibodies bind the virus and neutralize it. So very, very important for preventing an infection. But killer T-cells recognize infected cells

and kill them. So very, very important to terminate an infection.

So what happens when you have an immune response? Basically, it takes a couple of weeks -- sorry, it takes a couple of weeks for the immune

response. Go ahead.

QUEST: Yes, just taking those two cells and taking that environment that you talk about, on this question of reinfection. There are those few cases

that we know about -- Hong Kong, Amsterdam, and the like, but if we could easily be re-infected and catch it again, in layman's terms, one would have

thought there would have been more cases?

SETTE: Yes. And so certainly, reinfection cases have been documented. But to put it in context, reinfection cases have been in the hundreds.

Infection cases have been in the millions.

So right now a problem is not to avoid re-infection, but the problem is to avoid infection at the big level, and our studies show that immune

responses last at least eight months, and I was going back to the case you were mentioning, your own case of the antibodies waning and becoming

undetectable.

That happens in some cases. There is a lot of variation from one individual to the next. It usually happens also with the people that didn't have a

very severe infection. So basically, if your immune response, if your antibody level are not very high, it doesn't take very long to drop the low

level of sensitivity.

The important thing is that the memory B-cells, the cells that make the antibody are still there. In fact, in our study we saw that over a course

of six to eight months, those cells actually increased a little bit.

So if you make an analogy, say, there is an attack and the soldiers fire bullets, when the virus is gone, when the attack is gone, they don't fire

anymore, but they are still there.

So if you were to reencounter the virus, they would be ready to go. So the fact that your antibody --

QUEST: So related to that -- well, let me -- related to that, is the question of the way in which we must behave, the way in which that we

having had the virus and bearing in mind also there's the long COVID which is another issue, you're basically saying to people, you may have immunity,

but you still need to behave with masks and social distancing, and all the other things.

[09:50:14]

SETTE: Absolutely. Absolutely. It is the right thing to do. It's important that everybody adheres to social distancing, keep wearing masks, and all of

that. So it's a mixed message. So there is good news, the immunity is long lasting in the majority of cases. The vaccines are starting to come up and

have showed excellent results.

But we're not out of the woods yet, and we need to -- we need to continue to act responsibly.

QUEST: Professor, thank you. I appreciate it. Very kind of you joining us.

Now, coming up after the break, banking -- one of the biggest names in Nigeria. It is the 100 Club. This is FIRST MOVE. Julia is off today. I am

Richard Quest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: One of the biggest names in African banking. In fact, it is twice as old as the country whose name it bears. Cyril Vanier explores the First

Bank of Nigeria, which of course is a member of the elite 100 Club.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Nigeria might only be 60 years old, but its people have trusted this bank for 126 years, even before

the country got its name.

First Bank of Nigeria was founded as the Bank of British West Africa by shipping magnate Alfred Lewis Jones, who needed a bank to make it easier to

do business.

FOLAKE ANI-MUMUNEY, HEAD OF MARKETING AND CORPORATE COMMUNICATIONS AND GENERAL MANAGER, FIRST BANK OF NIGERIA LTD: The roots of what is now First

Bank can actually be traced as far back as 1891. But First Bank itself was not established until 1894.

VANIER (voice over): Folake Ani-Mumuney money is the bank's head of Marketing and Communications. She says longevity has always been the goal.

ANI-MUMUNEY: Now the end of the very first board meeting, the directors at the time were clear that they wanted an institution that would have steady

growth that would be sustainable.

VANIER (voice over): So in 1896, the bank started to expand first to Ghana and eventually to other countries across West Africa.

These days, First Bank is global.

After decades in business through name changes, mergers and acquisitions, in 1979, the bank was officially named First Bank of Nigeria Limited, the

name it still holds today.

The bank CEO says its success is no fluke.

ADESOLA KAZEEM ADEDUNTAN, MANAGING DIRECTOR/CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF FIRST BANK OF NIGERIA LIMITED: Governance is very important in the long

term growth and development of any institution.

VANIER (voice over): While leading the organization through COVID-19 has been challenging. He says he is confident that the bank can weather any

storm.

ADEDUNTAN: We've existed through two World Wars. We've seen at least two global pandemics. Most other institutions are around when we started are

falling by the way.

The reason why First Bank under a different name have continued to flourish is that capacity to lead innovation, disrupt and be part of disruption.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[09:55:31]

QUEST: The 100 Club. Before we go, a last look at the markets, allow me to show you where we stand.

Of course, I'll be back for "Quest Means Business" in just a few hours, five hours or so from now. But we are down. We're down on the Dow, the

NASDAQ and the S&P 500.

It is all about the prospect. You've got competing issues now. The good news with the vaccine, the difficulties with the transition and the worries

now that Steve Mnuchin is asking for the Treasury money back and you've got locked downs, all of these melange of events all taking place, and that's

what you're seeing in the market.

And that is FIRST MOVE for this Friday. Julia is back on Monday, sanity will be restored.

I'll see you for "Quest Means Business" in five hours from now. Until then, whatever you're up to, I hope it's profitable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

END