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First Move with Julia Chatterley
In a Phone Call, Donald Trump Demands Georgia Find Votes to Overturn Election; U.K. Begins Oxford-AstraZeneca Vaccine Rollout; Bitcoin Swings from Record High to Correction. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired January 04, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:31]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.
Trump's tape: the President asks Georgia officials to find votes to overturn Biden's win.
Dose delay: a challenging start to the global vaccine rollout.
And a Bitcoin Bonanza, wild swings in the digital assets after it tops $34,000.00.
It's Monday. Let's make a move.
Welcome once again to all our First Movers around the globe. Great to be back with you for a New Year, though I have to say there's been no
moderation in the pace so far.
In 2021, all eyes on the battle against COVID. Of course the battle to vaccinate people as quickly as possible and the battle for power in
Washington, D.C. Well, that drama remains a wild card, I think for markets this week.
The State of Georgia will determine the balance of power in Congress and whether the Democrats have free rein with policy going forward, including,
of course more financial aid.
For now, despite the uncertainty, investors remain upbeat as you might perhaps expect. The major U.S. averages set to hit fresh records in early
trade today. All the conditions that drove markets higher throughout 2020 remain true today.
The Fed, of course stands ready to do more if needed. The U.S. has agreed billions more in financial aid and IPO and M&A fever also set to continue.
We've got a number of deals already announced in the United States today. And after a shaky start, the vaccine rollout should accelerate, too.
What about Europe? Well, that's starting the year strong as well. U.K. stocks outperforming buoyed by travel stocks in particular on vaccine and
recovery hopes and the nation avoiding a hard Brexit at the end of the year, last year, too despite concerns of tighter lockdowns going forward.
To Asia now, Chinese stocks posting solid gains, a private survey showing factory activity still solidly in expansionary mode, yet there's
nervousness, if we take a look over to Japan after the government warned it might impose a state of emergency to control soaring COVID cases.
We've got the latest on all of this coming up. For now, though, let's get to the drivers and to the astonishing phone call between U.S. President
Donald Trump and Georgia State officials where the President pushes Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, to quote, "find votes" that would
overturn Joe Biden's election victory. Here is Joe Johns with all the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The stunning recording of President Trump in his own words, pressuring the Georgia
Secretary of State to overturn the election results in a phone call.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE United States (via phone): So look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more
than we have because we won the state and flipping the state is a great testament to our country because, you know, there's -- this is just -- it's
a testament that they can admit to a mistake or whatever you want to call it, if it was a mistake. I don't know.
A lot of people think it wasn't a mistake.
JOHNS (voice over): For an hour, Trump repeated baseless claims of voter fraud and attacked Brad Raffensperger for refusing to say Trump won the
contest in Georgia that he lost.
TRUMP (via phone): And the people of Georgia are angry. The people of the country are angry. And there's nothing wrong with saying that you know,
that you've recalculated, because the 2,236 absentee ballots, I mean, they're all exact numbers that were done by accounting firms, law firms, et
cetera.
And even if you cut them in half, cut them in half and cut them in half again, it is more votes than we need.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA'S SECRETARY OF STATE (via phone): Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong.
JOHNS (voice over): Raffensperger, a Republican and Trump supporter has overseen multiple recounts and audits of the election in Georgia, each one
reaffirming President-elect Joe Biden's victory.
RAFFENSPERGER (via phone): Mr. President, the problem you have with social media they -- people can say anything.
TRUMP (via phone): No, this isn't social media. This is Trump media. It is not social media.
[09:05:10]
TRUMP: It's really not. It's not social media. I don't care about social -- but I couldn't care less. Social media is Big Tech. Big Tech is on your
side. You know, I don't even know why you have a side because you should want to have an accurate election and you're a Republican.
RAFFENSPERGER: We believe that we do have an accurate election.
JOHNS (voice over): The President's conversation after weeks of slamming Georgia election officials.
TRUMP (via phone): There's no way I lost Georgia. There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes. I'm just going by small numbers when you
add them up, they are many times the 11,000. But -- But I won that state by hundreds of thousands of votes.
JOHNS (voice over): In reality, Biden won Georgia by nearly 12,000 votes. Biden's senior adviser saying, "The tape shows irrefutable proof of a
President pressuring and threatening an official of his own party to get him to rescind the state's lawful certified vote count and fabricate
another in its place."
And at a drive-in rally ahead of Georgia's Senate runoff races, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris weighed in on the audio.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE-PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, it was yes, certainly the voice of desperation. Most certainly that. And it
was a bold faced, bold abuse of power by the President of the United States.
JOHNS (voice over): Trump is set to head to Georgia later today for campaign events supporting the two Republican candidates, Senators Kelly
Loeffler and David Perdue, just one day before the end of the voting that will determine whether Democrats take control of the Senate.
Capitol Hill Democrats and some Republicans outraged by the President's efforts.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): It has all the elements of a criminal action because you have the President trying to illegally change the results of an
election by essentially threatening the Secretary of State and others here.
So I certainly think it merits a good look whether or not people decide to actually prosecute at some point, that's a separate issue.
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): It's disgusting. And quite honestly, it's going to be interesting, you know, all these Members of Congress that have now
come out and said they're going to object to the election.
I don't know how you can do that right now with a clear conscience, because this is -- this is so obviously, beyond the pale is probably not even the
way to describe it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And Joe joins us now. Joe, I have to unscramble this for an international audience. I do want to ask you how this will all play into
the Georgia runoff elections that we probably would have been talking about if this hadn't broken over the weekend.
And that's, of course, critical for determining the balance of power in Congress going forward. But there are legal experts here that are saying,
look, this is a felony, this is solicitation of election fraud. What now, Joe?
JOHNS: It's pretty incredible, and it's pretty stunning if you think about it. The fact of the matter is, number one, on the issue of Georgia, yes,
there are concerns that it could affect the Georgia runoff. And the question is anybody's guess.
The President has a rally in Georgia. There are some concerns that because of this, and because of some other factors, that rally will be more about
him than about promoting the Republicans who are running to get re-elected in the State of Georgia.
Of course, the significance of that is that the run off in Georgia, quite frankly, will determine who controls the United States Senate for at least
the next two years. Will it be Democrats or will it be Republicans? It depends on who gets elected in Georgia. So that's the first thing.
But beyond that there is a real and a biding concern if you talk to some of the legal officials around town here, that the President walks right up on
illegality in that conversation, both at the state level and at the Federal level.
Down in Georgia, they have a law that is essentially suborning fraud in election that means encouraging someone to commit an act of fraud in
elections. It's illegal in the state. And federally, there are also concerns about extortion, which is essentially offering a threat, if you
will, in order to get someone to do something, or to give something of value like for example, the overturning of the election in Georgia.
Nonetheless, it's very unlikely, quite frankly, that the President would be charged by a prosecutor. Number one, he is on his way out of office. And
number two, it would certainly cause more of a storm in the United States than anything you could imagine at a time when the incoming administration
has a lot on its hands including the issues of coronavirus.
So, bottom line, it is certainly stunning. It's astounding. It's astonishing, but the question of course is what's going to be the end
result? And the only real end result anybody cares about at this stage is what happens in Georgia -- Julia.
[09:10:16]
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Absolutely, and to point as well, we should be talking about other things: humanitarian crisis, health crisis, and yet, we're
talking about phone calls. We'll see what happens in Georgia.
Joe, great to have you with us for, as I said, unscrambling all of that. Joe Johns, thank you.
All right. New Year, new vaccine and the U.K. has begun its rollout of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. You've seen pictures from earlier this morning
when 82-year-old, Brian Pinker became the first person in the world to receive a dose.
Max Foster joins us from Oxford. Another one, it's great to see. It's far more simple to distribute, to administer in this case, because it doesn't
need to be kept at low temperatures. It's another monumental moment -- Max.
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: It really is. So, they've already approved the Pfizer vaccine here, of course, a huge fanfare around this --
around that.
But this is seen as a real game changer, particularly in the U.K., partly because they bought more of it. This is a U.K. product designed here at
Oxford University, but also it is cheaper, and as you say, it's easier to store; therefore, it's easier to transport.
Therefore, they feel they can use this to get a vaccine into care homes, which is the top priority for the U.K. government and they haven't been
able to reach many with the Pfizer vaccine, of course.
So initially, these vaccines, the AstraZeneca vaccine is going to be handed out in hospitals, like the Pfizer vaccine, but they hope by the end of the
week even Julia, they could have centers, about a thousand centers around the U.K. in smaller places such as doctors, surgeries, and in care homes
for this new vaccine.
So it could make a huge difference, and it's desperately needed right now.
CHATTERLEY: Max, because there is rumor and talks that there's going to be even tighter lockdowns in the U.K. We've all been very focused on this
different variant that's spreading more quickly. And obviously, it's around the world, but talk specifically about what we might see in the U.K. now.
FOSTER: Well, if you look at the charts, they are absolutely frightening at the moment, because they seem almost like a vertical line upwards if you
look at the case numbers in the United Kingdom, about 50,000 cases, yesterday, on Sunday in a single day alone, which is huge, it is pretty
much out of control.
There's a massive amount of concern about that. Boris Johnson and his government are looking at these numbers and thinking maybe tier four, the
top level of lockdown isn't working, maybe areas in tier three needs to go up to tier four.
He was asked about that today on a hospital visit whilst he was looking at this new vaccine rollout.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I'm going to obviously ask you to wait and we'll -- we will be producing everything that we think is
necessary to keep people from spreading the virus.
If you think about it, we've already got a lot of the country in in tier four, some are in tier three. All we've been waiting for is to see the
impact of the tier four measures on the virus.
It's a bit unclear still at the moment, but I think there's -- you know, if you look at the numbers, there's no question that we're going to have to
take tougher measures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Where you are. It is inevitable basically, Julia that the lockdown is going to get stricter and it's a bittersweet day, isn't it? You've got a
celebration of the vaccine, but things are getting worse.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, short term, huge challenges. Longer term reason for optimism. Max Foster, thank you so much for that.
Right here in the United States, the Chief Adviser for Operation Warp Speed saying government officials are looking at ways to stretch the coronavirus
vaccine supply, including possibly giving half doses to people aged 18 to 55.
CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen joins me now. Elizabeth, great to have you with us. Just explain that because it does tie to this
variant that the U.K. has identified and the need is simply I think behind the scenes to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So Julia, Dr. Moncef Slaoui, he is with Operation Warp Speed talked to my colleague,
Sanjay Gupta and he told Sanjay that they are thinking about doing these half doses for people ages 18 to 55.
So you would still get two doses, but the amount you would get, the dosage would be half each time. The thinking is that in earlier trials with a
relatively small group of people, they saw that they did get some antibody response when they gave these half doses.
But there's a couple of things to point out, relatively, a small number of people and they didn't then go and see if these people were less likely to
get COVID. It's one thing to look at blood in the lab and say, oh, it looks like something is happening here. It's quite another to say it actually
protected them from getting COVID.
That work was only done in the Phase 3 trials with tens of thousands of people, and in there, they used full doses.
So I asked Dr. Anthony Fauci about this this morning, and he said, look, before I give an opinion, I want to look at the data. I asked Dr. Paul
Offit who sits on F.D.A.'s Vaccine Advisory Committee, and he used the word "terrible." He said, I think this is a terrible idea. We didn't test out
half doses in the Phase 3 trial. We give recommendations and we authorize things based on Phase 3 trials with tens of thousands of people. That's
where the data is and we should stick with the data -- Julia.
[09:15:42]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's so important as well when you're dealing with the lack of trust when people are already uncertain and afraid. Again, it comes
down to the education and the communication. If you're changing things that you've not even -- if you've not even tested for, at the same time, just
trying to get vaccines out there is one thing and Operation Warp Speed predicted 20 million doses of vaccinations by the end of the year, and
clearly, we're a long, long way away from that.
COHEN: Right, we're a long way away. You actually said two different things there, Julia, and I think that's so important. So there's vaccines
available. There are 20 million vaccines available, ready to go and distributed. That was what they promised by the end of the year. They've
got 13 -- they've got 13, not 20.
Second of all, they certainly gave the impression that 20 million people would have shots in arms by the end of 2020, and the numbers so far is
four. So obviously, even farther away from 20.
So you know, of course, huge questions. How did this get so messed up? Part of what got messed up was the communication. They never should have made
those promises. I think this will go down as one of the worst communication campaigns in U.S. public health ever.
I mean, that was, they really did not handle that well. But in addition, there's the question of why can't we get this rollout happening faster? And
I think part of the answer in the United States is that unlike in the U.K. and other countries, there is no centralized authority doing this.
IT is private hospitals, private doctors, it's the government. It's the Federal government. It's the state government. It's lots of people trying
to coordinate, and sometimes that doesn't always go so well.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it is a huge, huge country. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that.
COHEN: Thanks, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: All right. While the United States struggles, Israel parring ahead in the vaccination drive, over 10 percent of the population has now
received its first dose.
You're looking at pictures from New Year's Day when the one millionth dose was administered in the presence of the Prime Minister.
Sam Kiley joins us now from Jerusalem. Sam, great to have you with us.
In comparison to my last conversation, I think dense population and small relative size of population helps, too, but how are the Israelis managing
this?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, it's now at just over 12 percent of the population has been vaccinated. There remains
deep, deep concern, though, that the pace of vaccination here won't keep pace with the spread of the COVID virus that hit 6,000 cases, I believe, in
the last 48 hours or so, new cases, that is with continuing levels of death tolls rising and the reason the government here is now considering a
possibly a week long, possibly even two-week long total lockdown across the country is so that the gains that they've made over this remarkable rollout
of the vaccination program, don't get lost and don't get overwhelmed.
But you ask, how is that possible? Well, at least that was referring to the United Kingdom and its National Health Service and other similar structures
here in Israel. There are essentially four competing organizations that compete for patients within a form of National Health Service, if you like.
This is also a nation that is used to mobilizing, most often, of course, mobilizing due to security threats or the dangers of incoming bombardment
or indeed wars over the years with their neighbors; highly militarized, of course, and very, very efficient, particularly using young people here are
pretty well drilled. They're famous for their informality, but they're also famous for their efficiency.
And there been some remarkable scenes here, for example of young people with delegated authority coming to the end of a vaccinating day, finding
that they've got excess doses, particularly of the doses that have to be kept at super low temperatures and giving them out to passersby. That
counts as a vaccination. That's not -- no vaccination is going to waste.
Anecdotally, I've spoken to friends and colleagues who have been along with key workers and been able to pick up extra or rather not extra, but
vaccinations ahead of time to prevent any kind of waste.
There are concerns here that the next phase within Israel may be slower and of course in the Palestinian territory, some of which are under total
Israeli control, I'm not talking about the Israeli-Jewish settlements on the West Bank, but the Palestinian areas, they have yet to see any
significant rollout of the vaccination campaign.
But there are concerns there also, Julia, that if they don't get a vaccination program working there, of course, there could be in a sense a
COVID blowback into Israeli territory proper-- Julia.
[09:20:26]
CHATTERLEY: I was going to ask you that, Sam, actually, are the Israelis taking responsibility for the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip?
KILEY: Yes, I mean, it's very mixed. It's a very complex -- a complex structure, but essentially, the Palestinian Authority, which is responsible
for the administration of Palestinians in what's known as Area A, which is most of the urban areas and Area B, which are under Israeli security
control, the Palestinian Authority control, the Palestinian Authority is responsible for the health of the population within those territories, and
they have yet to really roll out a vaccination program.
In Area C, which are closer to a total occupation that is administered both in terms of administration and security by Israel, Palestinian sources are
saying, well, it's okay if you've got an Israeli ID card, but you're ethnically Palestinian, you can get an inoculation.
But it's very difficult to get one if you've got a Palestinian identification card. We have yet to investigate directly on that. That is
the reports that we're getting from individuals on the ground -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Sam, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that report there. Sam Kiley from Jerusalem.
All right, let me bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world.
A British judge has rejected a U.S. request to extradite WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange ruling that such a move would be quote, "oppressive."
Assange's legal team will apply for him to be released on bail pending an appeal.
The United States charged Assange under the Espionage Act for publishing classified military and diplomatic communications.
Iran says it has restarted uranium enrichment with a target of 20 percent enriched uranium at its Fordow Nuclear Facility that would breach the
Nuclear Deal between Iran and the international community implemented back in 2016.
The International Atomic Energy Agency says it is monitoring Iran's activities and will report to members today.
All right, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, can Amazon delivered the robo- cab? We speak to the woman leading the efforts and its first driverless taxi is unveiled.
And Bitcoin boom, the cryptocurrency hits an all-time high before plunging. We take a look at their roller coaster start to 2021. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:25:47]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. Japan now considers declaring a state of emergency in the Greater Tokyo area as COVID-19 cases surge. The country
reporting more than 3,100 new daily infections.
Selina Wang is live in Tokyo for us. Selina, just explain what we're talking about in terms of an emergency response. So what will it mean in
terms of lockdown and how many prefectures are we talking about?
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, something that I don't think is widely understood is that Japan's government does not have any legal
abilities to enforce these COVID restrictions, so declaring a state of emergency simply gives local governments the ability to urge their
residents to stay inside.
But even though this has no legal enforcement, Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga has been very reluctant to take any steps that would potentially
hamper the economy.
He is saying publicly that he is considering this declaration. This is after the Tokyo governor and governors from three neighboring prefectures
all urged the Prime Minister to do so.
But the Prime Minister's approval ratings have been plummeting over his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. One health expert described his
response to me as quote, "slow and confusing."
In fact, Julia, up until late December, the government had been encouraging people to go out and travel and eat, saying that you can go out, but just
take precautions voluntarily.
This, all happening as Japan continues to report record high cases. The national cumulative total is now nearing a quarter million cases.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, so they are dealing with the current crisis now and as you said, it's pretty challenging. Then there's the rollout of the vaccination
program. And Selina, I was reading over the weekend in the medical journal, "The Lancet" that actually, Japan ranks among the countries with the lowest
vaccine confidence in the world.
We often talk about the anti-vaxxers here in the United States, but it's a challenge for Japan, too. What more can you tell us about their vaccination
plans?
WANG: Julia, absolutely. I'm glad you brought up that "Lancet" study because actually, if you look at the data, it's pretty interesting. It
shows that fewer than 30 percent of people in Japan strongly agree that vaccines are safe and effective. Compare that to actually at least 50
percent of Americans according to this "Lancet" study.
Now, this cautious feeling of vaccination in Japan is really driven by a history of vaccine safety scares, as well as concerns about potential side
effects. And in Japan, in addition to this challenge they have to face of convincing the populace that the vaccine is safe and effective, they are
also far slower than some other countries to roll out their plan.
The Prime Minister said that they plan to start vaccination in late February with those medical frontline workers first in line as well as
elderly people. And in Japan, the stakes here are incredibly high because whether or not the Olympics go forward as planned, largely hinges on how
quickly Japan, as well as the rest of the world can vaccinate their populations.
And even though Japan has reported far fewer cases than parts of Western Europe, as well as the United States, the fact of the matter is that
whether or not Japan can host the Olympics depends on their ability to curb COVID. And this is really their last chance, Julia.
Officials in Japan have said that if the games are not held this summer, there will be no further postponement. It would just be canceled.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to ask you that. Very, very concerning. I have to say.
I know they've got high hopes of trying to get it back on track. But yes, a worry.
Selina Wang, health first, as always, thank you so much for that update there.
All right, we are counting down to the market open. Stay with us. We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. And U.S. stocks are up and running on the first trading day of 2021, and the bulls begin the year firmly in
command. All the major averages at records as you can see in front of you. All of this adding to last year's already impressive gains driven higher by
a stunning 43 percent rise in the NASDAQ, the tech heavy sector.
In many ways, it was Tesla's year, too. Shares of the electric car giant soaring by more than 740 percent. Musk and company reporting 2020
deliveries over the weekend too that beat Wall Street expectations and its shares also at fresh records today as well.
We've also got merger mania in focus. An $8 billion deal in the industrial tech space was announced today between Teledyne and FLIR Systems. We've
also got MGM Resorts in focus. They've made an $11 billion bid for Entain, the owner of U.K. betting firm, Ladbrokes. It is being rejected so far as
too low.
Wow. Lots going on in the business space.
Mark Zandi is the chief economist at Moody's Analytics and he joins us now. Mark, great to have you with us. I want to look ahead and talk about what
we can look forward to in terms of recovery in 2021.
I was reading your note over the weekend and what's remarkable is in terms of your economic forecasts, there's very little different to what you were
saying actually back in April. Your predictive powers were pretty phenomenal in the face of something so unprecedented.
MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: Well, thanks for saying that, Julia. I mean, obviously, there was a lot of uncertainty last year,
given the pandemic and policy and the presidential elections and all the things that are going on overseas. Brexit is a good example of that.
But yes, you know, we underestimated actually the strength of the bounce back that occurred once the businesses started to reopen early last year.
But other than that, I think we've got the contours of the forecast right.
And hopefully, we'll get the contours of this forecast for this year right, because we are optimistic. I'm optimistic about the economy's prospects,
certainly by midyear, by that point in time, the vaccines will have been rolled out to a significant degree.
I think the Biden administration will kick into gear here and get people inoculated and we've got that $900 billion fiscal relief package. So
there's a lot of things to worry about in the very near term, but I think 2020 should be a pretty good year.
So hopefully, I was accurate about 2021 as we were about 2020.
[09:35:02]
CHATTERLEY: Explain how optimistic you are because I've had conversations with those in the business community and they're talking about a roaring
20s, where people are so desperate to get back to life, to get back to traveling, to spending money, if they have managed to save money that this
will be an incredible rebound. Are you that optimistic, Mark?
ZANDI: No, not that optimistic, Julia. I mean, I do think that, you know, the pandemic, I don't think is going to end with an event, it's going to be
a process, you're just going to take time, for people to become convinced that if they go out and do what they were doing before the pandemic, they
won't get sick, for people to get inoculated.
And, you know, it's not only about what happens here in the United States, but it's about what happens in the rest of the world. And, you know, the
vaccinations are likely to occur more slowly, in many other parts of the world, particularly the emerging parts of the world.
So no, I think this is going to be more of a process. I don't think it's going to be, you know, bang rough and running. I think it's a slow build.
But that's a reasonable debate, you know, it goes to human behavior. That's very difficult to gauge.
So, you know, maybe we'll get lucky and we'll have a roaring 20s. I'll take it. But my sense is, my instinct is that this is going to be -- it's going
to be better, but it's going to take time before we're back to full swing.
CHATTERLEY: But a fraction of the time it took for the economy to recover after the financial crisis. I mean, that was a decade.
ZANDI: Yes, yes, very -- that's a good point, the economic expansion after the financial crisis, so a decade ago, that was very, very slow. And it
took us almost to the end of the decade 2018-2019 before we got back to full employment, and people felt really good about things.
I don't think that's going to be the case here, we'll get back much more quickly. There's a number of big differences. Most importantly, the
financial system, in the pandemic held together very, very well. The Federal Reserve did a marvelous job of keeping it insulated from the chaos
in the economy. Because the financial system is in good shape, credit will continue to flow and that's going to be key to any economic recovery.
Now, obviously, there's a big difference between now and what happened after the financial crisis when the financial system really collapsed and
needed a bailout. It took many, many years for us to get back going again.
CHATTERLEY: You know, what's quite fascinating and you point it in your note, too, that actually what you've probably got most wrong was stock
prices and the sheer rise and recovery that we saw in asset values, quite frankly.
So if you're an asset owner, or you were an asset owner, you predict that actually, households in the top quintile have more than a trillion dollars
in excess savings over and above what they would have done in 2019, simply because they haven't been spending the same way.
How much of a kicker is that to recovery versus the lower quintile, and the proportion of the population if we stick specifically to the United States
that were beaten up through this crisis and what -- we're still down 10 million jobs?
ZANDI: Yes, you know, the pandemic really created some very significant economic winners. You know, people with higher income households, people
who could work from home, good health care, owned stocks, owned housing, enjoyed the run up in prices; and the losers, you know, lower income,
generally minority groups, people who couldn't work from home, their healthcare isn't quite as good. Probably don't own any stocks whatsoever.
Only half of Americans own any stock whatsoever, and may or may not even own their own home, and so two very different groups of people.
And I do think the economy can come back with higher income households spending, you know, the bulk of the savings that they accumulated during
the pandemic when they weren't out traveling and going into restaurants and ballgames and that kind of thing.
But it cannot flourish without everyone participating in the economy's good fortune. So I think, hopefully, lawmakers will get together in the next few
months, pass another package of help for those lower income groups to get them up and running because unless they do, you know, the economy can move
forward. We will continue to expand, but it just won't flourish.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, you're saying another stimulus package or financial aid package required.
Mark Zandi, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for that.
Mark Zandi there with Moody's Analytics.
All right, we're going to take a break, but coming up, Amazon maps out the future of autonomous cars with this taxi that comes without a driver. The
question is, are we ready for it? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Could 2021 be the year of the fully autonomous car? There have been plenty of predictions, plenty of stalls and
misfires, but this four-seater self-driving taxi made by Amazon subsidiary, Zoox could be among the first.
And if the idea of a robo-taxi sounds strangely familiar, remember this?
[VIDEO CLIP OF "TOTAL RECALL" PLAYS]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Hollywood got their first back in 1990. This robo-taxi starred in the original "Total Recall" movie. The Zoox cab fairs better
when it launches on the streets of San Francisco and Las Vegas.
Aicha Evans is the CEO of Zoox and joins us now. Aicha, fantastic to have you on the show. I have to say, though, when I look at your model of the
robo-taxi, there's no steering wheel, there is no driver, even a robotic one. So just talk us through the vehicle itself first.
AICHA EVANS, CEO, ZOOX: Thank you for having me, Julia. Look, I mean we are in reinventing personal transportation to make it safer, cleaner and more
enjoyable.
This is a vehicle that drives, it's not a contact car by the way and it is conceived for the rider, not for the driver. The AI and robotics take care
of the driving, and to us, if a customer steps in and even thinks about driving, we fail. This is really about being transported and when I'm not
using it, somebody else is.
CHATTERLEY: You know, it's quite fascinating when I saw the purchase by Amazon, obviously that brings capital and gives you some financial freedom
to invest here. But is the plan still to provide a robo-taxi, a ride hailing service for, we, the consumer versus perhaps last mile delivery
that might facilitate Amazon's role in the world.
EVANS: Yes, this is a question we get very often. Look, it is about transportation at the end of the day and moving people is key. This is
where the demand is. This is where the greatest benefit to society is from the environment to -- our vehicle is really conceived for cities.
It has a very small footprint. It's very maneuverable. And yes, we can see that once we can move people reliably and safely, we also will be able to
move goods and packages.
But the focus -- and this is something that's very important for Zoox, we've been consistent at the top of the hype and at the bottom of the
valley, we've been super consistent moving people first, and from there, we can now scale and expand.
[09:45:18]
CHATTERLEY: You know, we can talk about the technology, and we can talk about the business model. I want to talk about the business model first,
just to understand.
We've seen ride hailing as a tough, tough business to make money in. How is this going to work? You're going to own a fleet and people are just going
to pay the fare for traveling around in one of these robo-taxis.
EVANS: Yes, so this is about really moving people. Like I said, we do not sell vehicles, we sell rides. And, you know, the ride hailing business has
probably been expensive and one of the reason it's been difficult is because you have to pay somebody to drive you around, that's actually
fairly extravagant.
And in this case, you own the asset and basically, somebody pays for the ride. By the time you pick them up and drop them off, somebody else is
available and it is running consistently. It's fully electric, it runs 16 hours a day, and only goes back to base to get charged for two hours, and
he is back on the road.
CHATTERLEY: It's such a great point, the cost of the driver here, if you can extract that then you're winning. Talk to me about data collection,
because I know you're trialing this in several cities, three different cities, I believe, at this moment.
Talk to me about the data required, the artificial intelligence, the sheer volume of data in order to prove this thing is safe because that's how you
get it on the road ultimately.
EVANS: Yes, it comes down to the customer sees the vehicle, but behind the hood, you have the software stack, and very important, you have the sensor
architecture and compute. And again, safety is paramount here.
So we have cameras, LIDARs and radars that are constantly collecting data and looking around us and telling us what's going on around us and also
behind objects. We have a very unique sensor architecture that allows you to see things behind other things. And so that all works together
seamlessly to make things happen.
Now, it's about testing both on private and public roads, and then getting to a safety bar, I always say, until unless I'm willing to put my two
children in this vehicle, we're not ready. And we're very humble about this. It's about testing and being ready and meeting a very high safety
bar.
CHATTERLEY: It's a first mover advantage in this market. I mean, people will look at Alphabet with Waymo and again all the data that they have
collected and the experience they have. Tesla, and their view and vision over what robo-taxis of the future will look like. Do you see them as
competition? Is there room for all? And where are you in terms of bringing this to market?
EVANS: We see them as competitors and fellow travelers. We take this responsibility for this industry. But actually, this is something that's
going to happen, it's going to really change the way we work, the way our cities are constructed, and so we see them both as competitors and fellow
travelers.
I think it's been publicly said that this is a multitrillion dollar opportunity over the long term. So there's room for many of us. Now, there
are not going to be 10 to 20 companies, but there will be a handful and that's okay.
And from a commercial standpoint, you know, the AV industry is quite interesting. Sometimes people are like, oh, it's tomorrow morning. And
sometimes people are like, oh, it's not for another 10 years.
I'll put it this way, pushing next year, however, we are launching a lot sooner than people also realize. This is all about the additional testing
we are doing and meeting a very high safety bar.
CHATTERLEY: I remember having conversations about this back in 2017 and reading articles, and it was like 2021. That's going to be the year. But
you're saying it's not going to be the year. Will it be under three years? Can we make that prediction in 2021?
EVANS: I think you're getting closer. Yes, it's in that bar.
CHATTERLEY: Okay, so it would have been around 10 years back then. Aicha, fantastic to have you on the show. Keep us posted. It's fantastic.
And I can't wait to see how these work in practice. Thank you so much there.
EVANS: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: The CEO of Zoox. Thank you. All right, Bitcoin's wild start to 2021, not compared to what we saw in terms of gains last year. Let's be
clear. The cryptocurrency surge across the board, we'll discuss next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:51:44]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. A meteoric rise followed by a technical correction leading to another rebound. Bitcoin has begun the year
like, well, a Bucking Bronco, that's how. Let me give you a look at how it's trading right now.
It rose through $30,000.00 to an all-time high of more than $34,000.00. It then fell more than 10 percent in a matter of hours to below $30,000.00,
and now we're back above that level, but we're still down.
Paul La Monica has been tracking the digital currency. Wow. That's going to keep you busy, Paul. Just watching the general price movements, but what a
run this has had and you only have to look at social media to see the excitement, the celebration, the interest in this digital asset.
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, clearly there continues to be a lot of momentum for Bitcoin which you know really hit its stride last year
following a big plunge in March along with just about everything else due to COVID-19.
But Bitcoin has surged because there has been more interest from legitimate institutions like Square and PayPal on the financial side and also big
investors like Paul Tudor Jones and Stanley Druckenmiller. You're clearly seeing that Bitcoin, I think, this differs from 2017 when I think there was
a lot of retail investor interest, but you know, mainstream companies, both in Silicon Valley and Wall Street might have been a little more wary of
Bitcoin.
That's not the case now, and this is helping other cryptocurrencies as well. Ether has had a monumental surge, the number two cryptocurrency, in
the past couple of days and it's still rallying today even as Bitcoin has pulled back.
CHATTERLEY: Okay, you make a great point. It's not just about Bitcoin, there are plenty other digital assets out there that are benefiting from
this wave. Two things, I think you mentioned there. The first, which is what we call institutional investors, bigger money that traditionally would
have looked at this and did up to very recently say, I'm not touching it with a bargepole suddenly turning around and saying, I probably missed
something.
And then you've got also smaller players going, hang on a second, I've got a fear of missing out and they are all piling in, too, and that's creating
this huge wave that both investors have been riding.
LA MONICA: Yes, exactly. And I think what's really I think going to be the next trend to watch, Julia, this year is whether or not more companies
decide that they should be investing in Bitcoin in lieu of cash on their balance sheet. Micro Strategy, a software company that has decided to put a
lot of its corporate cash into Bitcoin that I think is something that if you see other big companies start to do that, that will legitimize Bitcoin
as well as a store of value for companies that have tons of cash sitting on their balance sheet that earns next to nothing.
Bitcoin is obviously volatile, but it definitely earns more than, you know what you get from a Treasury bond or just the dollar, that's for sure.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we had big crypto investor, Mike Novogratz, on the show saying, look, you know, this is not going to zero. This may be volatile.
This may pull back dramatically and we had many 30 percent corrections during the period before that we saw as well.
[09:55:07]
CHATTERLEY: Is the difference between what we're looking at today, in addition to everything we just discussed compared to 2017 a greater degree
of regulatory clarity as well over individual investors holding things like digital assets and cryptocurrencies?
LA MONICA: Yes, I think you're going to see institutions like the SEC play a bigger role with regards to Bitcoin and that will help. Still my biggest
concern right now is that even though this time might be different in some respects, this is still a hyperbolic parabolic move.
I mean, we just hit 20,000 a few -- you know, just about a week before Christmas, and here we are, Julia sitting at you know, nearly 35,000
earlier this morning. That is a move that it doesn't matter what type of environment we're in, what big billionaires are investing in Bitcoin.
That's too far too fast.
It's reminiscent of the dot-com stocks in the late 90s, the NASDAQ early 2000. We probably need a healthy correction before Bitcoin can sustainably
go higher.
CHATTERLEY: And that's why we love you on this show. I actually didn't use the term Bucking Bronco lightly. Yes, in any other asset class, we were
going, give me a break. So this is us saying, give me a break.
Paul La Monica, thank you so much for that.
All right, that's it for the show. You've been watching FIRST MOVE. I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe and we'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
