Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Mayor Of DC Encouraging Residents To Stay Inside And Everyone Else To Stay Away From DC; More Than 960,000 Americans Filing For First Time Benefits Last Week; President Trump Impeached For The Second Time, His Fate Now In The Hands Of The Senate; President-Elect Joe Biden To Announce A COVID-19 Aid Package Today; Chamber of Commerce Is Forcefully Condemning President Trump's Role In The Capitol Riots.

Aired January 14, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Two WHO scientist blocked from China after positive COVID antibody tests. It's Thursday, let's make a move.

Welcome once again to "First Move," as always where we'll bring you all the latest on those truly historic events coming out of Washington D.C. and

reaction from big business leaders too.

Let me give you a sense of what's coming up. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce CEO Tom Donohue, his influential body also eyeing a top to bottom rethink

of just how it donates cash to politicians.

Plus we'll have reaction from big tech Cisco CEO Chuck Robbins and the Microsoft President Brad Smith too. So lots coming up on this show.

In the mean time law makers, they view impeachment in terms of the future and potentially curtailing any Trumpion (ph) ambitions to return to power.

Investors meanwhile I think view impeachment in terms of the past.

For them, Biden's big stimulus reveal is certainly the main event today. Reports suggest it could be as much as $2 trillion as I've mentioned, the

need well and truly underscored once again by a brutal new reading on jobs.

More than 960,000 Americans filing for first time benefits last week. A jump, in fact, of almost 200,000 people on the prior week. All this as the

United States reports more than 4,300 lives lost to COVID on Tuesday alone. That's the deadliest day in the crisis to date.

Look, there's no shortage of issues for Washington based law makers to address. But for now, the focus remains on impeachment. Let's get the

drivers. Preparations are underway for the Senate trial of Donald Trump, the first U.S. president to be impeached twice.

Ten House Republicans join Democrats in charging President Trump with inciting insurrection in last week's riots in the Capitol as Sunlen Serfaty

reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Inside the U.S. Capitol, now protected by armed National Guard troops.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: The ayes are 232, the nays are 197.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SERFATY: The House voting to impeach President Trump for the second time. Exactly one week after a pro-Trump mob stormed the building in a deadly

riot.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

PELOSI: He must go. He is a clear and present danger to the nation that we all love.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SERFATY: House Democrats explaining why they believe Trump should be charged with incitement of insurrection.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

HAKEEM JEFFERIES, (D) HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: Donald Trump is a living, breathing, impeachable offense.

JOAQUIN CASTRO, (D) HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?

JAMIE RASKIN, (D) HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: Every one of us in this room right now could have died.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SERFATY: And in a rare bipartisan move, 10 House Republicans joining.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JAMIE HERRERA BEUTLER, (R) HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: My vote to impeach our sitting president is not a fear based decision. I am not choosing a side,

I'm choosing truth.

DAN NEWHOUSE, (R) HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: Last week there was a domestic threat at the door of the Capitol and he did nothing to stop it. That is

why with a heavy heart and clear resolve I will vote yes on these Articles of Impeachment.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SERFATY: House Minority Leader, Kevin McCarthy voting against impeachment but saying this about the president's role in the riot.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R) HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should

have immediately denounced the mob when he was what was unfolding.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SERFATY: Trump's fate is now in the hands of the Senate. And Majority Leader Mitch McConnell made clear his trial will not start until after

President-elect Joe Biden begins his term. McConnell who has said he thinks impeachment will separate Trump from the GOP, has told Republicans

colleagues he's undecided on a conviction.

The president is still taking now responsibility for the attacks on the U.S. Capitol and did not mention impeachment in a video statement posted by

the White House. But Capitol Hill Democrats think Trump should be held accountable.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

RICHARD BLUMENTHOL, (D) SENATE: Guilty intent and his actions can be presented very quickly to the United States Senate. I hope Republicans will

join in convicting them.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SERFATY: Biden addressing it's crucial for Congress to multi-task in the weeks ahead, writing in a statement quote, "I hope that the Senate

leadership will find a way to deal with their constitutional responsibilities on impeachment while also working on the other urgent

business of this nation.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

TED LIEU, (D) HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: We can both do the trial as well as get the work of the nation done simultaneously.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: Joe Johns is in Washington with more. Joe, great to have you with us. The big question now is what the Senate doing. As we were hearing

there in that report, Mitch McConnell very tight lipped on where he's going to go here in terms of the vote. He's clearly the majority leader now.

He'll very soon be the minority leader.

Is it a case of where his vote goes, others follow?

[09:05:00]

JOHNS: Well, one thing's for sure and that is that if Mitch McConnell were to say that he was fully onboard with removing Donald Trump and also making

Donald Trump ineligible to run for future office that would probably bring some republican votes his way.

On the other hand, Mitch McConnell has sort of played this going in both directions. At one time, there was a strong suggestion coming out that he

was onboard with the process that was happening in the House of Representatives and then, last night, or -- he suggested, hey, I don't

think we should have and we will not have a trial until the 19th, the 20th, which means it'll be in the hands of the Democrats with the Democratic

Leader Chuck Schumer.

The bottom line is, McConnell is very smart and what he is essentially doing is trying to read the tea leaves to figure out which way he needs to

go. This president will not find himself receiving any sanctions from the United States Senate unless 17 Republicans vote in favor of doing so, 17

republicans, that's big number.

And the fact of the matter is when they ever -- whenever they get to the trial in the Senate, one of the big questions is going to be whether you

can even hold a trial for a president who has already left office? There is some precedent for that in the whole record of impeachment and there'll

also be a question about whether the Senate and the Congress just makes their own rules and can do anything they want.

Could end up in the courts, and I guess the big question, of course, is just what are the numbers going to be? How likely is it at the end of the

day that anything happens with Donald Trump having already left office and now in trial in the Senate, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's such a great question, Joe. Does it help ultimately -- this impeachment is not about trying to heal a divided nation, but do

you think it helps heal or actually does this make it worse?

JOHNS: Well, there are a lot of people, especially people who follow the law closely or have some interest in the rule of law, who say in such a

situation as this, there must be a measure of accountability one way or the other and we've seen a bit of that just with the impeachment last night.

But the question is whether it will have teeth and the repercussions if there isn't accountability.

Some people say, well, you'll find yourself in a position where another president somewhere down the line would challenge the United States

Congress in the same way the events of the January 6th challenged the Congress and because there was no accountability this time, one might think

he could get away with it again.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. It's funny, I saw a quote from Republican Representative Jaime Herrera Beutler and she said yes on impeachment, I'm not choosing a

side, I'm choosing truth. It's the only way to defeat fear on not choosing sides here. Joe Johns, great to have you with us, thank you.

JOHNS: You bet.

CHATTERLEY: To the president-elect, we're expecting to hear Joe Biden announce a COVID-19 aid package today which could be worth some $2

trillion, maybe even more. Direct payments to families are included as well as state and local funding. President-elect Biden will announce the plans

from Willington, Delaware and that's where we find Jessica Dean.

Jessica, great to have you with us. I have to say, the jobs numbers this morning illustrate the desperate need out there, but just talk us through

what we might expect in this package.

JESSICA DEAN, CNNINT ANCHOR: That's right Julia. We are expecting to hear from President-elect Biden later today where he's going to lay all of this

out. And we're told that $2 trillion number, that's kind of a ballpark, that's what congressional allies have heard. It could be more that, it

could be less than that. It's going to depend on negotiations, depend on what they can get through.

But they know that Americans are in desperate need of help. So we are told that this will include direct payments to Americans, could be $2,000

payments to Americans who qualify for that. We're talking about aid to state and local governments for COVID vaccine distribution plans.

And remember, a lot of these state and local governments, because of COVID, are also kind of broke right now. They really are having a hard time

getting through their budget, so there's a lot of need at the state and local level in addition to individuals and also of course businesses, small

businesses have suffered so much throughout all of this.

So expect there to be some things in there for small businesses. They want to get schools back open here in America, it's very hodgepodge. Some

schools are open, some are half-virtual, some in person, some are purely virtual.

[09:10:00]

So they want to get as many schools back open as possible. And also to do that they know they've got to get this vaccine distributed at a much

quicker rate than what they are doing right now.

So that's going to take planning, it's also going to take funding. So they're going to be asking for that as well. So expect Biden to really lean

in to all of these different things, which he has talked about, both as President-elect and when he was on the campaign trail of what he would do

once he was in power and the ability to put forth an economic package.

And of course because the Senate is now 50/50 with Kamala Harris, the vice president-elect, making that tie breaking vote. They believe they can go

big here. And you can expect them to try to go big and ask for everything they want, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, absolutely. Go big or go home. There's a real feel to that and there's certainly real need.

DEAN: Yes.

CHATTERLEY: Jessica Dean, thank you so much for that.

All right, let me bring you up to speed now with some of the other stories making headlines around the world. Experts with the World Health

Organization are in Wuhan, China to investigate the origins of COVID-19.

But two members of the WHO team had to stay behind in Singapore after testing positive during a stopover for coronavirus antibodies. Insulated

set back for a long delayed mission. David Culver is following developments for us upon (ph) Shanghai. David, great to have you with us. I believe this

double negative requirement was implemented back in November of last year.

According to the Chinese Foreign Ministry, everyone was negative when they left their home base, but then of course in certain cases they had to

transition through Shanghai -- sorry, through Singapore and therein lies the problem.

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And you hear this and you hear that two of the experts were blocked and it raises suspicions

immediately, Julia, because what we have seen and what you mention as those long delays and getting this whole team in here. To your point, this has

been a regulation that the Chinese government put into place November of last year.

And that is that you have to test negative not only for COVID-19 but also the antibodies. So two of those experts staying behind. The other 13, well

they're not going to jump back into research, in the field at least, until another two weeks because they have to go through what is another standard

procedure for the epidemic prevention as the national health commission here puts it, and that is the standard quarantine.

So after those 14 days, then they are expected to be able to go into the field and they'll start where they are right now and that is the original

epicenter of this outbreak, Wuhan. So the current plan is for them to be doing some of the research from quarantine. Not quite sure how that's going

to work.

Of course it's questions that we've put to the WHO and hope to learn more over the coming days. But all of this is happening as China's dealing with

another cluster outbreak that's quite serious.

This is, as we've mentioned, over the past few days in Hubei Province, it's just outside of Beijing. And there's several hundred confirmed cases of

coronavirus. You hear that, and again, compared to the rest of the world it sounds insignificant.

But for China, a place where we have been living near normal, albeit in a bubble of sorts, this is concerning. And it's so alarming for officials

there what we have just learned, Julia, that state media reporting that 20,000 villagers in one area had been moved to centralized quarantine and

they're constructing a medical observation facility.

So think back to the Wuhan days about a year ago and shortly thereafter they started to build those makeshift hospitals. Well, it seems like that's

being repeated again in this province outside of Beijing. And that is, in of itself, quite concerning.

It's not clear how many numbers of those cases are going to continue to be surfacing there. I mean obviously officials are trying to curtain this, the

containment efforts have been rather strict. I mean we've been living with contact tracing and going around with QR codes, so we're traced by the

government.

But this case out of the province in Hubei, really, really alarming.

CHATTERLEY: Really alarming. And David, it is astonishing to me that earlier in the show I mentioned 4,300 COVID related deaths in the United

States on Tuesday, clearly a huge tragedy.

I also believe I read the first COVID related death in China, of course for many, many months. Is that correct?

CULVER: That's right. Since May of last year. And of course these are government figures that we're always attributing here. And when you hear

how low the cases are, a lot of people are skeptical again of the numbers as they were during the original outbreak.

But I can tell you anecdotally living here we have experienced live as though it were pre-COVID. And then again, we can't leave and come back in

because you often times have to go through Visa requirements or you have to go through this strict quarantine if you do get permission to come back in.

So it's not that unusual, for example, to see the WHO experts having to go through that. But to have this first death now reported since May of -- of

last year, it's surprising. And again, I think that speaks to why the government there is moving so quickly, particularly within that one

province.

[09:15:00]

And no doubt there could be some of the officials facing punishment because we've seen that over and over when there's a cluster outbreak and things

are -- seem to have been mishandled, so the National Health Commission believes, well then some of those local leaders will pay the price.

CHATTERLEY: David, great content as always. Important caveat on government related data but that's why it's so great to have you there, just to give

your sense of -- of what you're seeing and that feeling in China.

CULVER: Thank's Julia.

CHATTERLEY: David, great, thank you so much. All right, we're going to take a break but a little later on, coming up later on in the show when I get my

teeth back in, reaction to the second impeachment by two of the biggest names in tech, fresh from the CES, Microsoft President Brad Smith talking

technology, security, and democracy and thoughts too from Chuck Robbins, the Chairman/CEO of CISCO on Biden's plan for technology in this space.

Stay with us, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to First Move where we're following two major stories today. A historic second impeachment for outgoing President Donald

Trump, and of course the massive stimulus plan on tap from incoming President Elect Joe Biden.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is forcefully condemning President Trump's role in the Capitol riots while at the same time looking to the future and

urging a bold new plan to re-boot America, it says infrastructure spending, cutting regulation, and boosting cyber security are all going to be key.

The body also believes America stands at a pivotal point in it's history and I'm glad to say, Tom Donohue, joins us now, he's the CEO of the U.S.

Chamber of Commerce, sir, always a great pleasure to have you on the show. I want to begin by talking about the impeachment decision from the House

yesterday, is that the right decision from Congress in your mind?

TOM DONOHUE, CEO, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Well, to tell you we had very strong feelings about the inappropriate (ph) way that the (ph) President

behaved leading up to that tragedy and we said that we condemned it, it was totally inappropriate.

[09:20:00]

And we said that we leave it to the House and the Senate and the vice president, when they were talking about the other ways to go forward, and

we hoped they would do it in a judicial and thoughtful way.

They have acted. The senate is saying that they will take up the trial after Mr. Biden is Secretary -- President Biden and probably not

immediately because they want to have the attention of the Senate on confirming important members of his cabinet.

CHATTERLEY: The decision from the Senate and the vote in the Senate though will be critical to determining whether or not President Trump can ever

hold public office again. Tom, you are the representative, you're incredibly well connected with the business community throughout the United

States of America, whether they're Democrats or whether they're Republicans, what's their view? Should Donald Trump be prevented from

holding public office in the future?

DONOHUE: Well, I think they have an early view of this is totally inappropriate. There's a lot of support for action by the Congress. I think

that there are probably a group of them. Remember, he got 70-plus million votes, there are a group of them that think that would be inappropriate, as

a group right now that think that's exactly what we ought to do.

And then there's a lot of people that will sort of make up their mind as things calm down and a trial is held. But the bottom line is very simple,

having been the only person in history to having been impeached twice, that's a -- that's is an indictment and going through a trial, and if he is

impeached or convicted, it is my opinion that it will be very difficult, no matter what the conclusion is of the -- of a conviction, be very difficult

for him to run for president.

CHATTERLEY: Tom, you raised a very important point there, though, and that was that 74 million people did vote for President Trump. Many of those

people, and I separate the violence and the riots that we saw last week, but there are many people who remain very confused as a result of

misinformation and other reasons.

They believe this election was stolen. How do we move on and how do we bridge divides in society? What role does business -- does the business

community play in getting us through this very divisive period?

DONOHUE: Well, I think there's three things I'd say. First of all, they believe a lot of what the president was saying about the election being

stolen because he started talking about that long before the election was even held. And he is a passionate, convincing person to a lot of folks.

I believe the issue for the business community is very clear, and that is to do everything in our power to help fix the pandemic, to move quickly to

work for that portion of the economy that is still not doing well.

I mean, more than half of it is just going very aggressively, but the part that's tied into aviation, hotels, events, restaurants, and all of that,

which is because people are staying home, if we can fix that by helping to get all of these vaccinations done, if we can be ready to go when people

can go back to work, we can put a big dent into this issue.

In addition, there's great opportunity to go forward with an immigration bill and an infrastructure bill. Infrastructure bill puts people to work.

We have to train people for new jobs because many of them have left a job that won't be there when they go back and training is critical.

And then the reality is if we employ everybody that's looking for a job in America, we would still have a real problem with jobs who don't have people

to fill them. So put it together, train people, fix the vaccinations so everybody can go back to work and then go out and get some folks of special

skills to come in on a new immigration bill and create more jobs here in the United States.

[09:25:00]

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I like your point, I really like your point about the skills gap that's created and it only accelerated as a result of what we've

been through in the last year. Tom, we could hear a $2 trillion financial aide package proposal from Joe Biden, it may even be bigger. Are you on

board with a proposal of that size even if it means higher corporate tax rates for your community in order to fund it?

DONOHUE: Well, first of all, I will split the questions and answer them separately and the first thing is we're -- we'll be OK with most of what

the President Elect, at the time next week, the President proposes. We've got to be very careful that we don't provide to much money to people that

we need to go back to work but on the other hand we have got to make sure people aren't put out of their homes and that they're not in situations

where they can't support their family. So, we'll look for the things we can support.

As far as a corporate taxes there's going to be a half a dozen different ways that people are going to -- on the Biden side and Republicans as well

are going to look to bring more money into the government. We've already spent more than $4 trillion on sustaining our fellow citizens and we'll

spend more and so, we're going to be looking at some sources of revenue.

I'm not quick to say that corporate taxes are the best way to go because I don't want that strong part of the economy, by increasing taxes a great

deal or by going back to more regulation, if that slows down then everything we're doing is weakened by -- by a lack of revenue from a strong

economy. It's not a simple yes or no, let's see what people are proposing, how they want to do it and what the attachments are.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and the key is efficiency to your point too. Tom, great to chat to you as always. Tom Donohue, the CEO of the U.S. Chamber of

Commerce, sir, thank you once again for joining us this morning on First Move.

All right, coming up, President Trump impeached just days before leaving the White House. How the business community is reacting. We'll talk to the

CEO of Cisco next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." The opening bell has sounded on Wall Street for the fourth time this week and the U.S. majors are higher,

as you can see in early trading, as investors await President-elect Biden's big stimulus reveal later on today, around 0.3% higher right now across the

board.

Investors are hoping for a fiscal flood over the coming months, a new round of direct payments to Americans and extended jobless benefits for the

unemployed among a whole host of other things. And brand new jobless numbers could make Biden sell a little bit easier on Capitol Hill and

subdue criticism that the spending will lead to wider deficits.

The number of Americans filing for first-time benefits approaching 1 million people a week, once again, the worst read since august. Fed Chair

Jay Powell also speaking today, sure to address I think this and of course the ongoing pandemic crisis.

All right, let's bring it back to D.C. and a new intelligence bulletin warning that the attack on the U.S. Capitol will likely motivate extremists

to commit more violence. It comes as CNN has learned that federal investigators have uncovered evidence that leads them to believe that the

Capitol siege was planned. CNN's Jessica Schneider has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A federal law enforcement source tells CNN that surveillance footage indicates the domestic terror attack on

the Capitol last week was not just a protest that spiraled out of control.

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Look, there's no doubt there were at least some conspiracies, people wandering around exercising their first

amendment rights don't bring ropes and ladders and sledgehammers to a spontaneous event. This was a planned assault as if going after a castle.

SCHNEIDER: The tactics and weapons seen on surveillance videos suggest a high-level of planning went into the attack, the law enforcement source

says. Some attendees of President Donald Trump's speech left the event early, possibly to retrieve items to be used in the assault on the capitol.

Law enforcement officials are following the money to try to piece together the events of January 6th.

MICHAEL SHERWIN, ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: We're looking at everything, money, travel records, looking at disposition, movement,

communication records

SCHNEIDER: Officials are also investigating reports that groups of people received tours from members of Congress the day before the attack.

Investigators stressed that does not mean any members of Congress are under investigation. More than 30 House members have called on the sergeants at

arms and Capitol police to investigate what one House Democrat is calling a reconnaissance mission.

TED LIEU, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: No one is above the law, not the president, not his attorney and certainly not any member of Congress. If any member of

Congress incited the insurrection or gave inside information, the FBI should investigate them and if prosecutors look at the facts and think they

should be charged, then they should be charged.

SCHNEIDER: New video shows the chilling communication efforts near the end of the insurrection, showing how determined rioters were to penetrate the

Capitol.

UNKNOWN FEMALE: Hey guys, I've been in the other room listen to me in the other room on the other side of this door, right where these feet are

standing. There is a glass that if somebody, and if it's broken you can drop down into a room underneath it. So, people should probably coordinate

together if you're going to take this building.

SCHNEIDER: More have been arrested on charges related to the attack, including two off-duty Virginia police officers. They posted a photo from

inside the Capitol and had their first court appearance Wednesday. This man who wore a sweatshirt that read Camp Auschwitz has been arrested and

charged with entering the Capitol without permission and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.

An Olympic Gold Medalist Klete Keller has been charged for his alleged involvement in the insurrection after investigators say he was photographed

in the Capitol wearing a Team USA jacket.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHATTERLEY: A growing number of American companies continuing to take action following that violence at U.S. Capitol last week, Cisco one of

them. The company's employee sponsored pack, a body that pools political donations, suspending donations to politicians who opposed the presidential

election results.

Joining us now is Cisco Chairman and CEO Chuck Robbins. Chuck, great to have you on the show. Your views on the decision to impeach the president

in the House, does it help the healing process that this nation needs to undergo now?

[09:35:00]

CHUCK ROBBINS, CHAIRMAN AND CEO OF CISCO: Well, Julia, first of all thanks for having me, it's good to chat with you. Listen, I - I think that what I

would say is that the last couple weeks have been incredibly sad and it's a very difficult time in our country. I think that obviously, the legislature

has to make the decision on the facts relative to the impeachment which the House has done but you know my focus right now is on next week and trying

to work with a new Administration, try to bring unity back and to - to really try to move forward.

We have so many crises in this country right now and it is just astounding to me that we still let partisanship override our desire to actually solve

some of these problems. So, that's what we're hoping for as we move into next week.

CHATTERLEY: Chuck, can business take a more definitive role? I mean I mentioned the political donations, looking at the decisions that

politicians take and saying, "we are or we aren't going to give money to those people," perhaps doesn't matter for next one, two, three, four

quarters, it will matter when we come towards the mid-terms.

ROBBINS: Yes, I think every company is going through a bit of an investigative process and trying to assess what their posture is going to

be relative to political donations in the future. I heard Larry Fink speaking this morning that BlackRock is undertaking that effort as are we.

We will continue to assess how we donate but we also believe that a lot of the things that we are advocating for are good for the country and are

needed candidly like broadband, you know infrastructure, 5G, all those things are going to help as it relates to the inequality and digital divide

that we see out there. So, there's a lot of things that we do want to continue to support but I think every business is going to have to assess

what their position is going to forward for sure.

CHATTERLEY: And to continue an important point that you made, I mean technology or the social media platforms have come under fierce criticism

in particular for the last week for the role perhaps in misinformation but at the same time technology can play a huge role in benefiting society.

Whether it's to your point the greater provision of 5G technology, the health developments that we've made just in the last year, how does the

next Administration shape that? And what role does Cisco pay specifically?

ROBBINS: Well, I think the opportunity is to look at infrastructure from the perspective of digital infrastructure and as we think about the ability

to bring people into the economy and to give people opportunity it starts with fundamental connectivity and half the world's population doesn't have

high speed broadband and when you bring them onto the Internet you give the connectivity then you can deliver services.

And one of the great things that we've learned this past year (AUDIO GAP) can effectively deliver health care, we can effectively deliver education

and I think that we have to take advantage of those learning's in an unbelievably difficult year to actually shape how we solve of these

problems going forward.

So, we give them connectivity, we deliver healthcare, education, give them opportunity, and I think that's a - that's the key first step and I think

that's part of the Administrations infrastructure strategy and we look forward to working with them on it.

CHATTERLEY: And part of Cisco's plan of course going forward, that deal with Acacia and seemingly challenged over the last couple of days. I

believe you have some good news to share with us, Chuck, what can you tell us?

ROBBINS: Yes, Julia, we came to agreement with Acacia and just issued a press release a few minutes ago that we have re-negotiated the price on the

transaction to what we believe is fair value for where they are. They've operated the company very well over the last year and a half as we have

worked to get approvals and so we're excited to have them. We're looking forward to having them on board and you know really moving forward

effectively for our customers.

CHATTERLEY: So, you're paying a bit more but it's worth it and it's going to be worth it for the business going forward and for customers?

ROBBINS: We think so.

CHATTERLEY: Chuck, fantastic to have you with us. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today, Chuck Robbins, the CISCO Chairman and CEO.

All right, after the break, the President of Microsoft, Brad Smith, from Democracy to privacy, cyber security, oh boy, there's much to discuss. Stay

with us.

[09:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to First Move. It really is a sign of these extraordinary times when business leaders find themselves demanding

politicians accept Electoral College results.

This letter calling for an oddly transition of power signed by Brad Smith, the President of Microsoft. Political donations from the company's pack are

also on pause. And it'd an issue for debate among its 163,000 strong workforce.

Technology's role in democracy is something Brad Smith warned about in his 2019 book "Tools and Weapons: The Promise and Peril of the Digital Age."

And I'm pleased to say Brad Smith joins us now. Brad, always great to have you on the show.

What a crystal ball quite frankly that book was. You need about 20 crystal balls I think to predict what we've seen over the last week or so. Brad,

what do you make of what we're seeing politically here in the United States?

BRAD SMITH, PRESIDENT OF MICROSOFT: Well, we didn't have a crystal ball, Julia, to see what happened last week, although a few days before what

happened we did worry.

And we came out as a company and we joined many others and we used our voice to call for a peaceful transition of power the upholding of the rule

of law and Democratic values and I'm glad we did.

I'm glad the business community as a whole spoke up for that before last week's vote. It's a hard time. I actually think people need a little time

to grieve. And then I think we do need to find a way to move forward.

CHATTERLEY: You mean people need to grieve the events of the past week or they need to grieve even just not getting the result that they wanted in

the election and being confused about that and what happened about that? Because I think there are a lot of people out there that remain confused

and frightened actually.

SMITH: Well, we're at a moment in time when we're in the middle of a pandemic and I do think it's good for all of us to remember the enemy is a

virus, it's not each other. And there were bad people who did bad things last week. Let's not mince (ph) words about that.

But that's not the case for 70 million people who may have voted against a candidate that some others wanted to see elected. And so, we will need to

find a way to work across the aisle to move forward as a nation. And I think the business community will have an important role as it always does

to promote the kinds of steps that will help us recover from this pandemic and then really build the kind of economic recovery that is more inclusive

of everyone.

[09:45:00]

CHATTERLEY: Let's talk about exactly this, Brad, and the role that -- that technology companies like yourself plays, and again it goes back, I think,

to the heart of what you were talking about again in your book, whether we're talking about privacy, security, cyber security of course, in

ordinary times we've be talking about the SolarWinds hacks, which was monumental at -- at the back end of last year.

What role does technology and technology companies have to play now? And also, what role do governments have to play?

SMITH: Well, I think we both need to step up in the private sector and in government as well. I think we both need to move faster, we need to

strengthen the nation's and the world's defenses against the kinds of cyber attacks that we've been seeing over the last several years and even more in

the wake of what we saw, where SolarWinds was victimized and then its software was used to infiltrate and attack others.

We need to build the trust that people have to have in the technology they use around issues like privacy and then we need to think about how we use

technology to get people vaccinated and create jobs and how people get the skills to fill them.

CHATTERLEY: OK, I was going to ask you something else and I've changed my mind, because I saw an announcement this morning that Microsoft is one of

those companies that is coming together to -- to build and alliance to try and track the data of people getting vaccinated. This is so critically

important when there's not just one dose of vaccine, but two. Can you just give us just a quick mention about what you're actually doing there and how

this will work?

SMITH: Yes, so there's a couple of different things that we're doing and the announcement today, with a number of other tech companies and others,

is basically to create a technology platform so that if you go and you get a test and it's negative or you go and get a vaccine and you have the

record, you no longer have to carry it around on a piece of paper that if you're like me you're probably going to loose at some point.

But, you can have that reported, you can have an app. If you want to get on an airplane, they require evidence of something like that you can show

them. I think it will be something that people will have an option to use that will be important for the convenience of their lives in the months

ahead.

But I actually think there's another thing we're doing that, to me, perhaps is even more important. We need to get people vaccinated, in the United

States, around the world. And suddenly what we're learning, in some ways is that it was perhaps ironically easier to invent these vaccines, an

extraordinary scientific achievement than to master all of the logistics needed to get shots into people's arms.

And so, what we're really focused on right now, across the United States and around the world is providing the technology platform, really from and

end-to-end perspective so that an individual can find out, am I eligible, where can I go, how do I schedule an appointment. And that is the type of

thing that if we're going to move faster we need to put technology to work and we specifically have our technology that we're providing and working

with to states, localities, countries.

CHATTERLEY: It's how we get the world moving again, allowing people to travel once more and actually there's a -- there's a key connection here

between fighting COVID, between tackling cyber security, it's a global issue, it can't -- and we can't have nations navel-gazing, dealing with

their own domestic issues and now sharing information globally too. This is also part of tackling some of these big crisis and issues surely too, Brad.

SMITH: Absolutely. I mean, I think the broad lesson, as you and I have talked about in the past, is doesn't matter what the problem is, it doesn't

matter what the opportunity is, technology plays a roll, but especially when we have an issue like cyber security, where there are more

sophisticated cyber threats than we've ever seen before.

We're at a moment in time where we need governments to share information and tech companies to share information in new ways with each other and

even across the silos within their own organizations.

And this is going to require some cultural change for each of us, it will require an important question about privacy, we have to protect that at the

same time. But, we will not protect the world unless we take the kinds of steps that are needed to work together in new ways.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we can't let this conversation quiet and we keep having to. We must keep having it. Brad, these are big issues, there are big

solutions, but sometimes smaller solutions can make a really big difference.

[09:50:00]

I just want to ask you because I saw another blog post from you about the work that you're doing in Washington State as a company, another $110

million. Talk to me about what you're doing there and I know it's making a massive difference?

SMITH: Well, I think every long journey has a number of stepping stones along the way and certainly for us at Microsoft it's involved a few. One is

to continue to pay all of our hourly workers since last March, even though our offices are not open and there's, hence, not work for them to come to

work to do.

We have spent more than $150 million on that around the world so far. We just committed another $110 million here in the Puget Sound region in

Washington State. And it's not just our hourly workers we're focused on, it's the nonprofits that have been, I think, some of the big heroes of the

last year. Across the country, these organizations have been called on to do more than ever before to support so many people.

So we've committed another $50 million to $60 million to help them over the next six months. We're trying to work with the schools to help them reopen,

to provide them with PPE, to urge the vaccination for teachers because I think one of the most lasting losses out of the pandemic is what it means

for kids, perhaps especially less privileged kids, who simply cannot learn at home as well as they can at school. So we're very focused on that as

well.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a rallying cry for action, Brad, and we're grateful for it. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today, it's always a

pleasure to speak to you. Brad smith, the President of Microsoft there, I say thank you.

All right, up next, the streets of Washington, D.C., have a very different feel right now as security is scaled up ahead of the Biden inauguration.

We're live on Capitol Hill with the latest of what intelligence officials are warning about. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Welcome back to the show. Security being ramped up in Washington, D.C., ahead of next weeks inauguration. Pete Muntean is on Capitol Hill. Always

(ph) Pete, great to have you with us, I think your backdrop says everything.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Julia. It's such a strange scene here. Through the massive fence here, blocks away from the Capitol,

you can see some of the 20,000 national guardsmen descending on Washington right now. The threat here is very real, according to the Secret Service

which is now leading security for this inauguration.

It says it's monitoring chatter online of the potential of more armed protests here in Washington. The Pentagon says it's especially concerned

about improvised explosive devices, those pipe bombs like that were left outside the RNC and the DNC. And the head of the Metropolitan Washington

police department here in D.C. says there is a real reason why the District is discouraging people from coming here. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CALL)

ROBERT J. CONTEE III, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT CHIEF: As the mayor has encouraged residents, as she has encouraged visitors from around the

country, we're not asking people to come to D.C. for this. There's a major security threat and we are working to mitigate those threats.

[09:55:00]

So again, I mean we -- we -- we are just really intently focused on the job that's at hand.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

MUNTEAN: Julia, can't underscore enough how jarring this scene here is. This massive fence is around what -- a spot that would be typically be

filled with people. I'm six feet tall, this is eight feet tall. The District of Columbia clearing out right now for an inauguration like no

other, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Inauguration like no other. Pete, thank you for being there and for bringing that to us. Pete Muntean, great to have you with us. All

right, that just about wraps up the show.

I'm Julia Chatterley. Stay safe, we'll see you tomorrow. And "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

END