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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Interview with Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-N&) on Questioning the Biggest Players in the GameStop Saga; Facebook Blocks News in Australia; Mission to Mars. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired February 18, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:19]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.

Reddit reaction. U.S. lawmakers question the biggest players in the GameStop saga.

Social storm. Facebook blocks news in Australia. #DeleteFacebook trends once again.

And --

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CHATTERLEY: Mission to Mars. We speak to NASA's Chief just hours before Perseverance touches down.

It is Thursday. Let's make a move.

Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. Fantastic to have you with us as always the day where Reddit collides with U.S. Representatives. Yes, U.S. Congress

holding hearings today to ask what on Earth happened during the GameStop market mayhem a few weeks ago and if, and if so, how, they should act?

The heads of Robinhood, Reddit, Citadel and even Melvin Capital, that's the hedge fund that got thwacked by the Reddit crowd -- will be testifying.

Melvin's boss, Gabriel Plotkin describes being humbled by the massive losses, he and, therefore, his investors suffered.

And there is nothing simple about finance. Those investors include charities, retirees and pension funds among others according to his

statement. Nothing simple. It's going to be a fascinating day, I think, ahead.

For now, though, global stocks remain at record highs, but in consolidation mode though as plenty of corporate news elsewhere to keep us busy.

In Europe, jet maker, Airbus restoring guidance. That's a good sign. The U.K. banking giant, Barclays, restoring its dividend and slashing loan loss

provisions along with it.

Corporate optimism also evident in Asia, too, where China's large cap stock index hit all-time highs. Chinese investors are back from the New Year

holidays, of course, and Chinese consumers spent big. Revenues for big retailers and restaurant chains up almost 30 percent year-over-year.

Box office receipts were strong as an ox, too. We'll be speaking to the CEO of the IMAX cinema chain later on in the show to get his take.

Meanwhile U.S. consumers were spending strong last month of course with that data, but optimism has been dulled by the news that another 861,000

people filed for first-time jobless benefits last week. More than 18 million are still seeking benefit help overall.

Continued consumer spending is clearly going to require further cash support, and that, as we always discuss, is in the hands of Congress, but

today's agenda includes that GameStop probe and that's where we're going to begin the drivers.

Christine Romans joins us now. Christine, great to have you with us.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

CHATTERLEY: Good morning. I always talk about finance and the operations of finance as a balance, I think, between access versus safety, whatever

type of investor you are. My fear coming out of this is there is going to be a lot of political grandstanding and we're not going to get to some of

the critical questions here about whether investor welfare is safe given the changes that we've seen in terms of access to financial products. What

are you expecting?

ROMANS: Oh, I expect some grandstanding. That's what Capitol Hill grillings are about, right, I mean, you've got hometown lawmakers who want

to make sure that back on their news at home, they are seen as being particularly, you know, well thought out about their position on the

Reddit-GameStop frenzy here.

But there are some really legitimate questions that need to be asked here. You know, the free trading platforms, does more need to be done to make

sure that individual investors who maybe have never traded before and are trading for free have the right information and the right skills to be able

to put themselves potentially at risk here?

Also about the flow of trading. You're going to hear from the Citadel Securities CEO. You're going to hear from the people who run sort of the

pipeline of trading about whether there should be different kinds of trading settling times, and that's what some of them are arguing for.

And you're going to hear from one of these sort of Reddit bandits, you know, this guy who was the "Roaring Kitty" character who was really pushing

this. Was this market manipulation? And was there potentially a systemic risk to the whole system because of what was going on in GameStop? That's

what I think you really want to get to the bottom of here in these hearings.

[09:05:06]

CHATTERLEY: Yes, there always has to be someone called "Roaring Kitty" to enlighten our day in terms of congressional hearings. I like this quite

frankly, I was just looking at the individual opening statements. By far, the Robinhood CEO takes the prize for the longest statement, so it's going

to be quite fascinating to see what he has to say and some of the questions that he gets asked.

But to your point, and it's a very valid one, both he and the boss of Citadel say, there are fundamental changes that can be made and they can be

made very quickly to address some of the challenges we face, whether it is the settle meant mismatch where you do a trade and then that trade settles,

there's a two-day gap and that causes funding mismatches, but also transparency of the clearinghouses.

When they bring the person like Robinhood and say, "Hey, you've got to stop trading because we need you to hand over billions of dollars' worth of

cash," I think these are valid arguments.

My fear is that they get lost in the sort of beating up of hedge funds that will probably take place.

ROMANS: Yes, should it be a one-day settlement? Should it be a real-time settlement? What should that look like? And what's the best for individual

investors?

I think you might have some lawmakers who are going to be asking about the sheer act of short selling.

The S.E.C., many years ago was told it had to start to look into and maybe change some of the rules around short selling and did not. So will there be

some sort of discussion here about just naked shorts and short selling?

You know, because the individual investor sometimes, I think, can't -- honestly, you can't get your mind around the fact that if you go short in

some of these elaborate options trades, you can lose money to infinity, right?

It's not like you buy a stock and you lose the money you invested in it. It's a very different more highly leveraged game on the other side. You've

got individual investors who are going on Reddit boards, saying, "Hey, think I'll do this. I'm going to mimic this trade that someone told me is

cool and stick it to the big guy." And they could end up getting in big trouble, too. So I just -- there is a lot in there.

CHATTERLEY: I see one of the big exchanges a few years ago called it anti- American to short sell these stocks, and it is going to be interesting to hear what the boss of Melvin Capital says to sort of justify the short

position that they took in GameStop here.

He said, look, we fundamentally believe the price was out of line. This is not a valuable company. Of course, he also described some of the abuse that

he got on social media as well, anti-Semitic abuse.

There's going to be a lot of questions asked here to about the role of social media and whether there was fundamental market manipulation, because

this is a force now in financial markets that we have simply not reckoned with before.

ROMANS: You know, is it the new Long Island pump and dump office, you know, with the phone lines and the aggressive, uninformed traders who are

pushing stocks onto people who maybe didn't have the savvy. Is this the new age of that in social media?

CHATTERLEY: Social media, the new wolves of Wall Street. Here we go. We always have fun, Christine. Christine nice to see you. Thank you so much.

We will watch. It will be an interesting day.

All right, another interesting story, too. Facebook has blocked users in Australia from seeing and sharing news. This follows a fight with the

Australian government which wants tech giants to pay for the news on their platforms.

Brian Stelter joins us now. Brian, wowsers is all I can say about this story for so many reasons. What do you make of it? And then we'll dig into

more of the details.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Regulators around the world are watching this, so are news publishers, so are lawmakers. All eyes are

on Australia right now because of this proposed new media bargaining code that is supposed to help pay publishers for the content that is shared all

across Big Tech platforms.

This is about Facebook and Google and so far, Facebook and Google is getting very different reactions to this proposed legislation. Facebook has

basically blocked off Australia, so the news sites cannot share links from Australia and anywhere in the world, if you want to share a link to the

Australian broadcast network, to any of the other Australian outlets, you can't do it on Facebook anymore.

It's an amazing, drastic action from Facebook. It shows how much power they have. Google, on the other hand, is cutting deals with these news

publishers, trying to stop this legislation from spreading all around the world.

So two different reactions from two giant players to this real significant push that's been going on for a decade, Julia, by Rupert Murdoch and other

major publishers saying you need to pay us, at least a little bit, for the damage you've done to our business.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's quite fascinating because Facebook's argument here, and I've read their full statement is, look, we are very different from

Google because people share news on Google. You can search for a news article, it's there. You get no choice.

And perhaps, therefore Google has to compensate these news producers, these publishers for news, but in Facebook's case, they say, look, the business

gained from news is minimal. News makes up less than four percent of the content that people see in their news feeds.

They say, look, actually these news publishers come to us to promote their news and then they get more subscriptions so they sort of utilize the

Facebook platform.

I mean there are so many ethical questions to be asked here about what Facebook is doing, Brian. They can't turn the tap off on fake news and make

judgments over the news that here, but they can literally turn the tap off in a country.

[09:10:25]

STELTER: This is as fundamental as the building blocks of the worldwide web. The idea that on the internet you can link, the link is everything on

the worldwide web. That's what Tim Berners-Lee invented. And Tim Berners- Lee, the inventor of the worldwide web, he is concerned about this proposal in Australia because he is worried about how it will spread out -- could

spread around the world and cause lawmakers in Europe and North America and elsewhere to try to change the business model for these companies.

Here's part of what Facebook's Campbell Brown, a former CNN anchor, said in a blog post yesterday. She said, "Look, contrary to what some have

suggested, Facebook does not steal news content. Publishers choose to share their stories on Facebook."

She says, "What the proposed law introduced in Australia fails to recognize is the fundamental nature of the relationship between our platform and

publishers."

Look, she is right on the facts there that it's all about a choice. You have a choice to share it on Facebook or not. But what Rupert Murdoch and

other publishers have been saying for many years is that google and Facebook came in and ripped the business model right out from under them

and that Facebook and Google are selling ads, you know, around their content while directing you to news content.

CHATTERLEY: And you could argue --

STELTER: And it is an attempt by Murdoch to rebalance everything in the news business, and if it works in Australia, it will happen around the

world.

CHATTERLEY: It's such a great point, and you can argue that we are not -- they are stealing content here, but you could argue, too, that they are

perhaps stealing the money that flows as a result of that content, whether they choose to -- chose it or not because eyeballs bring in advertisers.

The numbers in Australia are shocking, 75 percent of people in Australia get their news from social media, it was a study by Oxford University.

Eighty one cents in every dollar of advertising spent on Google and Facebook. They are omnipotent.

Brian, we spoke to Microsoft, another player in this market. They've got Bing, the search function, too. So they had a vested interest in saying,

hey, we'll play ball with Australia. We think paying these publishers is a good idea.

But listen to what they had to say about the bigger issue here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD SMITH, CEO, MICROSOFT: You cannot have a healthy democracy out healthy journalism and we all depend on having a healthy democracy. That

means we all depend on having healthy journalism.

And so we saw this Australian proposal as an opportunity to step in and stand up for what we think is not just good business for Microsoft, but

really a good cause for Australia and the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: Brian, this goes back to your point. This is not just about Australia, this is fundamental to the functioning of democracies and where

our media goes from here and the sources of our media and the differentiations.

STELTER: Yes, how to finance news. Right, how to finance news. How to pay the bill for news gathering all around the world. But there are some folks

who say there's big flaws with the Australian proposal, that actually it does this in the wrong way and there are better ways, maybe taxes just to

try to finance news gathering in a way that makes up for the harm that's been done by Big Tech.

Meanwhile Facebook, by the way, the way that it has removed links in Australia, it has also removed public safety sites, health sites. It's

taken drastic action that in some ways seems to maybe be back firing.

So Facebook and Google, two very different approaches here, but all of this is fundamentally is about how to finance news and whether Facebook and

Google should pay up or whether these lawmakers are trying to shake them down, because honestly, there's a lot of folks that feel this is what this

is all about, it is protectionism.

It's about trying to shake down these Big Tech companies for a little bit of their profits for the news business.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it might not be the right answer, but it's an answer and it is a response from the Australians here. And actually, the quote over

the last 24 hours comes from the Australian Prime Minister on his Facebook page, which is humorous.

He said of Facebook, "They may be changing the world, but that doesn't mean they run it." Boom. We like that.

And final point, Delete Facebook, #DeleteFacebook is now trending, Brian, which I haven't done the math on this, but I do believe that is a buy

signal, sadly, or however you choose to look at it for Facebook stock.

STELTER: Yes.

CHATTERLEY: Nothing breaks them here. Yes. Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

STELTER: Thanks.

CHATTERLEY: All right, here's some of the other stories making headlines around the world. Millions of people in the United States State of Texas

face another day of misery with freezing temperatures forecast again and power outages still widespread, but those outages have dropped early today

and officials say the outlook is improving.

Prince Philip has spent a second night in a London hospital as a, quote, "precautionary measure." The Palace sources tell CNN there's no reason for

concern about the health of Queen Elizabeth's 99-year-old husband. They say he has been feeling unwell for a number of days before being admitted

Tuesday night.

[09:15:10]

CHATTERLEY: All right, still to come, movie momentum. Box office sales in China break records as cinema goers rush to return to the big screen. We're

joined by the CEO of IMAX.

And mission to mars, NASA's chief joins FIRST MOVE just hours before the agency lands a robot on the Red Planet. That's next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE live from New York on what is looking like a softer open for U.S. stock markets, growing concern about

the record cold snap in the United States and perhaps how that will impact future growth. We've got large chunks of the U.S. energy infrastructure now

offline.

Another sector, too, chip production also impacted, further worsening the global semi-conductor shortage. Vaccine distribution, another pivotal issue

of course also being impacted there as well.

Elsewhere, Dow component Walmart down more than five percent premarket after warning on slowing sales and higher costs. It's ramping up

investments and also raising wages for more than 400,000 workers. Nearly half of Walmart's workforce will now earn $15.00 or more an hour.

The firm not hanging around while Congress debates whether a compromise can be found to raise the minimum wage above its current $7.25.

But for now, Congress has an alternative focus today, too. In Washington, the powerful House Financial Services Committee is set to hold a hearing on

the recent market volatility involving GameStop and other stocks.

The CEOs of Robinhood, Reddit, Citadel and Melvin Capital along with Keith Gill, better known as "Roaring Kitty" on social media, will be in the hot

seat.

Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks joins us now. He's a senior member of the House Financial Services Committee. Congressman, fantastic to have you

with us on the show.

Can you be specific, what questions do you hope are answered in the hearing today?

[09:15:05]

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Well, you know, I'm going to be asking and trying to find out what the potential harmful practices that are done by

hedge funds, like short selling. So I want to talk and get into that a bit, potential conflicts of interest between parties that were involved in the

events last month, the relationship between Citadel and Robinhood and the amount of revenue that Robinhood receives by riding its customers through

Citadel.

I want to also be talking about social media on our market, the impact of it, you know, accessibility to the public information for the benefit of

retail investors, that's important to me, and how trading apps like -- how they operate on social media, and the impact on retail investors, that's

important.

So I'm looking to listen and hear and try to figure out whether or not the rules and regulations that we have in place have kept up with technology of

today, and whether there's something in addition that the S.E.C. should be doing, whether there's something in addition that the Congress should be

doing.

So I'll be listening very attentively and asking questions in those areas.

CHATTERLEY: You laid out very clearly all the different issues to be discussed, and there are so many angles here. I'll just break it down

first.

The longest opening statement is going to come from the Robinhood CEO who came under fierce criticism throughout this period. Do you believe that

access -- free access to trading platforms like Robinhood encourages excessive risk taking by those that perhaps aren't skilled enough to do so?

MEEKS: That's what I want to get into. Look, the truth of the matter is, I understand what Robinhood was trying to do is to get individuals into the

markets, so they have an opportunity to make some money also, so that it should not be open just to the big guy.

But that being said, that may mean that there needs to be extra protections to make sure that the less sophisticated investor is protected, and what

kind of information is disclosed to them in advance.

You know, for example, you know, I know that if you are investing in certain products, they may be riskier than others. And are they steering

people to those risky products? Or are there opportunities where there is full disclosure that becomes tremendously important?

And so I think that we want to drill down on that to make sure that we are protecting the investor. You know, I want to -- for example, we've got this

huge wealth gap with different populations in America, I want to close those wealth gaps. I want to make sure that opportunities are available to

all, but I also want to make sure that they are protected and that's what this is really all about for me.

CHATTERLEY: Are you in favor of greater education? Maybe even a test that retail investors have to take to prove that they have an understanding --

enough of an understanding to invest?

MEEKS: Well, I think that we've got to look at that, you know, what I -- how I come at this, we had one of the worst times for me in Congress was

the 2008 financial crisis that took place in the United States of America. And that, you know, not comparing apples to oranges, but that largely came

because of many institutions doing what we call -- giving out no doc loans, no documentation to find out whether the person had the wherewithal to

participate in adjustable rate mortgages.

Well, there are some products that may or may not be for the less sophisticated investor. And so there should be documentation that may have

to flow with that, so that we can make sure that we're protecting them.

CHATTERLEY: That everyone is protected.

MEEKS: Always --

CHATTERLEY: I just want to as well -- I just want to ask you as well about this model here about why and how Robinhood allow people to access the

financial markets for you, and you made the point about the hedge funds that the market makers, in this case, Citadel Securities and Citadel

itself, the CEO, of course we'll be hearing from, they pay Robinhood for that order flow and even the S.E.C. data says they provide a price

improvement to retail investors, over $3 billion dollars in 2020, over a quarter of that came from Citadel.

It's part of how finance works and giving free access to these individuals. Would you rather have individuals pay to access financial markets and not

have that relationship between a market maker perhaps and a platform like Robinhood?

It's complicated, but it's an important question, I think.

[09:25:09]

MEEKS: I couldn't agree with you more. It's a very important question. It is something that we've got to really get after and I will be asking that

question of Robinhood, because you know, they get with the payment for order flow, whether that's the appropriate way, how much does Robinhood get

as a result, as opposed to paying something upfront, which may be more transparent.

So that is definitely something that I think we have to look at and examine and this is an opening hearing to do just that. We don't want to wait until

something catastrophic happens at the end and say, oh, we should have looked at it earlier. We're going to start looking at it from a

congressional viewpoint today at today's hearing.

CHATTERLEY: I looked at the opening statement from Chairwoman Waters as well, and it does seem to be pretty anti-hedge fund, and I do think, at

times, we perhaps need to take a step back and understand that hedge funds do have investors that are pension funds, our nurses, our doctors, our

firemen, people that do great service, our teachers in this economy, too. Do we also have to remember that when we have these discussions as well,

Congressman Meeks, because there are many sides to this story.

MEEKS: There is no question about that. You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. What you do is to make sure that the playing field is level

because that's what we want to make sure. That there is transparency, that there are rules and regulations, so that everyone knows what the risks are

upfront, and due diligence has happened.

But I don't think that -- you know, I would like to look at what the effects of short selling is doing, so that's something that we need --

whether or not that's an aspect of hedge funds that we need to look at. You know, I have questions in my own mind about that.

But I'm not saying get rid of hedge funds, because hedge funds helps, as you just articulated average everyday hard workers through pension funds,

and otherwise, be able to have the resources that they need for retirement in other areas.

So I'm not anti-hedge fund, but I am protect the investors to a large degree, particularly the less sophisticated investor.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think -- and you've said it a number of times, transparency in all aspects here, if we can boost that, it will be key.

Congressman, I just want to ask you quickly before I let you go, because I know you have a very busy day, the move by Walmart to raise what it pays

workers, in some cases beyond $15.00 an hour, but that for a minimum for many of their workers now, what do you make of that decision today?

MEEKS: Well, I think it's a step in the right direction. We want to make sure that workers get paid a wage so that they can continue to -- so that

they can live and survive, so they can pay their rent, buy food, medicine.

Too often, we have individuals that have to make a choice of you know, with the resources they have of buying food or buying some prescription drugs

that they may need for their health. We want to make sure that we eliminate that and people have an opportunity to live a decent life and pay -- to be

able to pay their bills and they are not being exploited. That's really important.

So I think that if Walmart and others will move in that direction, and that's why we're fighting in the United States Congress right now, even as

we suffer from the pandemic to raise the minimum wage throughout the United States of America.

It's significantly important for cost of living reasons, it seems everything else has gone up except for wages, so that we've got to have

wages catch up, so people have a better level of living.

CHATTERLEY: A bit more equity. Congressman Gregory Meeks, great to have you with us, sir. We'll chat with you again soon. Thank you for that.

MEEKS: Thank you. It is good being with you.

CHATTERLEY: The market opens next. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:32:11]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE where U.S. stocks are slightly lower to start the session today. The Dow falling from record highs hit

yesterday. Disappointing jobless numbers not helping either. More than 860,000 more people filing for first time benefits last week; again, claims

continue to go in the wrong direction, but a softness as well.

Bitcoin bulls taking a breather after the cryptocurrency rose to a record of over $52,000.00, just dipping below that, but crypto challenger Ethereum

is in the ether, hitting all-time highs.

Metals sparkling today, too. Copper hitting its highest level in almost a decade as Chinese investors roar back after the New Year holiday. China, of

course, one of the world's biggest copper consumers. What did we call it? The-everything rally.

Another reason to rally, China's movie theaters are back in business post- pandemic and are selling more tickets than ever. Box office sales for Lunar New Year opening weekend smashed 2019 record topping it by some 33 percent.

It was a blockbuster weekend, too, for immersive movie brand IMAX which took in $25 million in China, 45 percent more than in 2019.

And joining us now is Rich Gelfond, CEO of the IMAX Corporation. Rich, always a pleasure to have you on the show. We'll go around the world, but I

do want to start in China. Is this the sign of pent up demand coming back?

RICHARD GELFOND, CEO, IMAX CORPORATION: No question, Julia. Thank you, it is nice to be back on your show again.

I mean, when you exceed your previous record, as an industry by one-third and as a company by 45 percent that tells you something is going on.

So even the absolute number for people who don't follow Chinese box office, it did $755 million its opening weekend. And now it's over a billion

dollars in box office. So that tells you once people feel safe, once the theaters are open, once there are things they want to see, they weren't

staying at home anymore, they were dying to get out.

And even after the weekend, they keep going in record numbers.

CHATTERLEY: You know, it is quite fascinating as well, when I look at what they are watching, clearly Hollywood in particular has had a torrid time

with the pandemic. But if you look at the share of international movies that are being watched, that's collapsed as well.

I think it was what -- 36 percent of receipts and now it's gone down to 16 percent. Have the Chinese had enough of international movies or do you

think this is just a temporary trend?

GELFOND: Well, it's absolutely a temporary trend. I mean, there are virtually no Hollywood movies being released in China and in fact, the one

-- the few that were released, were released simultaneously on a streaming service somewhere else or they were released on PVOD, so they released the

same day in China, at least digitally and as you know, China historically has a problem with piracy.

So when you release digital and the same time online, it's not going to work. But the magnitude of these numbers, there's just no question. When

movies open up on the day, and the rest of the world in theatres, and not online, the consumers in China are going to come back for those movies as

well.

[09:35:26]

CHATTERLEY: It's just what's available at any given time. I remember, when we had you lost on the show, you said, look, we're looking to expand our

network by around 50 percent over the next three years there and I know the region is not just about China, but does that feel conservative, even given

what we've been through in light of the kind of numbers that you're seeing?

GELFOND: You know, it's hard to make any predictions until the pandemic ends. So as good as the box office results are and China is as encouraged

as I am for the future, globally, you have to remember in Europe and the U.S. and South America and other places, it's still closed, because

vaccinations aren't going as quickly as hoped and the virus is still spreading.

So I would hate to give expansion numbers at this time, other than to say I'm competent when they open, it's going to bounce back. And I think we're

probably three months or so away from that starting tab.

CHATTERLEY: I'll use your phrase, because you always describe it as eventizing the cinema, and that's what you say will keep IMAX and your

product resilient in the face of the growth of streaming that we've seen, particularly over this period, Rich, but I just wonder, to your point about

vaccines, can you envisage a future where, as the CEO of IMAX, you say, you know, if you haven't had a vaccine, you're not coming to watch a movie?

GELFOND: You know, I think that's a very difficult place to be. And part of the reason is, for example, in North America, under 16 years old, you're

not even allowed to get a vaccine. So what are you going to say, kids aren't allowed to go to movies and enforcing it and a lot of things?

So certainly, I think there'll be masking requirements for a while, and certainly there's going to be safety health protocols that endure after

people are vaccinated. But the requirement of vaccines until they're given universally, I think is a long shot.

CHATTERLEY: What about elsewhere in the world? I mean, we've spoken to CEOs, the CEO of AirAsia said he can envisage particularly in regions in

Asia where they say, you're not coming in if you don't have a vaccine.

GELFOND: Well, Japan hasn't even started to vaccinate, and the theaters there have been open through much of this period and they just had their

biggest movie of all time, called "Demon Slayer," which broke IMAX records, broke records there.

So again, it's such a local, cultural kind of thing; and look at China, they've largely achieved where they are not through vaccination, but

through regulation.

So again, we're in 82 countries, as you know. So understanding and predicting how they're all going to react from a legal point of view is

above my ability.

CHATTERLEY: I know. I know, it's tough to make predictions, but give me a sense of recovery timing as we push throughout this year. And I will just

make a slight correction because we talked about it on the show earlier this week.

Japan has started vaccinating its healthcare workers this week, which is a good sign, Rich. Give me your forecasts as best as you can.

GELFOND: Well, I will talk about North America and Western Europe. I'm thinking May-June is when they start to open in a bigger way. Keep in mind,

many theaters are open in the United States. It's around 50 percent. They just have very limited capacity and very limited hours. It's only 30

percent of the box office potential that is open.

But when you listen to the sages like Dr. Fauci say that by June, anyone who wants a vaccine, maybe sooner, will be able to get it. I think our best

guess is May-June, things really start to open up and then sometimes over the summer, and there are fantastic blockbuster movies coming this summer.

"Jurassic World," the new "Top Gun" movie starring Tom Cruise, called "Maverick." "Bond" later in the year, so I think there's wonderful things,

but I'm not sure it'll be completely normal until around summer.

CHATTERLEY: I find, when guests talk to me about their predictions of recovering and getting back I always find myself crossing my fingers.

Rich Gelfond, we cross our fingers and hope you're right.

GELFOND: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: All of them, everything. The CEO of IMAX Corporation. Sir, thank you, as always.

All right, coming up after the break, a new robotic resident on the Red Planet to solve some burning Martian mysteries. We are live with NASA ahead

of today's landing of the Perseverance rover. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:00]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. It's come a long way, 300 million miles or nearly 500 million kilometers to be precise to help us understand

our place in the universe.

You're watching a landing simulation of NASA's Perseverance rover. And if all things go to plan, that will happen in a few hours' time.

Once it's on the Martian surface, the rover will join other unmanned missions already underway. It will search for ancient life and test the

atmosphere and it will even launch a helicopter, a first for another planet. All of this paves the way for manned missions in the future.

And I'm excited to say, Steve Jurczyk is acting Administrator at NASA, and he joins us now from their jet propulsion facility in Pasadena, California.

Steve, fantastic to have you on the show today. An incredibly exciting day.

STEVE JURCZYK, ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, NASA: Yes, it is, and thank you for having me on.

CHATTERLEY: Talk to me about what's going to happen over the coming hours and what work will begin.

JURCZYK: Yes, so last week, we uploaded the final software to the spacecraft and the final parameters. So since last Friday, it's been

operating autonomously.

And so around 12:55 Pacific Time, 12:55 p.m. Pacific Time today, the entry capsule is going to separate from the cruise spacecraft and we're going to

enter the top of the atmosphere of Mars at about 13,000 miles per hour.

We'll use rocket engines on the back of the capsule to guide the vehicle through the atmosphere and slow down to about 900 miles per hour where

we'll release a parachute at very fast speeds, supersonic, that'll slow us down to about 200 miles per hour.

And then we will fire up a vehicle -- a rockets engines on a vehicle called the Power Descent vehicle and that will take us from 200 miles per hour to

a couple of miles per hour above the surface, tethers, will lower the rover down on the surface and we'll cut those tethers in that vehicle will fly

away and crashing on the surface of Mars. So that takes about seven minutes.

[09:45:17]

JURCZYK: A lot of things have to go right in the right time during those seven minutes. And so we've called that time, the Seven Minutes of Terror.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, where everybody holds their breath and keeps their fingers crossed. Let's assume it's all goes perfectly, everything, soft

landing, we're all happy. Explain this project, because we're looking for signs of life, signs of water, microbial life up to what, three billion

years ago when we believe water was flowing.

And if we indeed find further evidence of that, how does it help facilitate what else we're doing and hope to do in space?

JURCZYK: Yes, so this is a really exciting mission, because we have really capable first of a kind science instruments on the rover to look for signs

of ancient microbial life, like you said, when Mars was much warmer, much wetter.

We also have instruments to examine the geology of the planet and the atmosphere and to get the geological history and climate of the planet. We

even have a radar, a ground penetrating radar that will look down 30 plus feet into the ground to determine the layers of soil or what we call the

stratigraphy in the ground that kind of gives you a geological history of the planet. So the science is amazing.

We have multiple technology experiments. There's one as part of entry descent landing, it's called Terrain Relative Navigation. It'll allow us to

land in Jezero Crater and avoid hazards like rocks and hills.

And we have an instrument called the Mars Atmospheric In-Situ Resource Utilization Experiment, and it's going to generate oxygen from atmospheric

CO2 and that's important for laying the groundwork for future missions to Mars, where it would be very difficult to bring everything with us: water

and oxygen, and even rocket fuel.

So that'll be the first demonstration of living -- sort of living off the land, right? Can we generate oxygen from atmospheric CO2 for breathable

air, maybe liquefy it for oxidizer, for propulsion systems?

And then we have the ingenuity helicopter. It will be the first hybrid air vehicle to fly on another planet, that's going to be really exciting. And

the last aspect of the mission is we're going to be caching samples, drilling core samples, putting them in tubes, capping them, and laying them

on the surface of Mars for a future mission called Mars Sample Return, which is a really strong collaboration between NASA and the European Space

Agency, and that's scheduled launch right now in 2026 and it would bring those samples back in the early 2030s.

So we have a lot of scientific instruments and this is going to do amazing scientific research. We've got numerous technology demonstration elements

of the mission, and then we're going to cast samples to bring them back to Earth, so we can examine them with laboratory instruments using state-of-

the-art instrumentation.

CHATTERLEY: Steve, oh, my goodness, I have about 40 other questions to ask you, but I just let you talk, because it's all so fascinating. So you're

going to have to come back soon.

Just very quickly, because I have about 40 seconds, obviously, you're Acting Administrator, a shift change between the Trump and the Biden

administration. I'm very excited to say the Artemis Program, which is going to put the first woman on the moon very soon, and of course, the next man

is going to carry on. What's going to be the biggest difference?

JURCZYK: Yes. So I think, you know, no major changes to the elements of the program. So still have a lunar gateway around the moon. We're still

going to do surface missions on the moon of increasing duration and use the moon to prove out capabilities to eventually -- for eventually a mission to

Mars.

So we're looking at budgets and timelines. That's what we're doing right now to make sure that, you know, the budgets we have support a schedule

with acceptable probability of success.

So we'll be doing that work over the coming months. But, you know, we're really excited that the Biden administration early -- very early has

indicated their support for Artemis, and for our lunar plans, and for eventual human mission to Mars.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, they share the enthusiasm, which I'm very pleased about, too. Watch this space, literally. Steve Jurczyk, great to have you with us,

Acting Administrator at NASA. Thank you for that. We'll keep our fingers crossed and the landing will be streamed live at nasa.gov at around 3:55

p.m. Eastern Time. That's just before 9:00 p.m. in London. Thank you again, sir.

All right, coming up after the break, one of the most powerful women in finance talks to our Richard Quest. She has gone from Madam Managing

Director of the International Monetary Fund to become Madam President of the European Central Bank, Christine Lagarde and Richard for next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:13]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. The President of the European Central Bank says the pandemic has left the world in a quote, "unbelievable, exceptional

situation." Christine Lagarde says global economic stimulus measures are needed now.

Richard spoke focus exclusively to her a little earlier, and he joins us now.

Richard, I think our audience needs to understand how exceptional it is that she spoke. So congratulations on that. What more did she have to say?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: The E.C.B. President is walking that fine line, former Central Banker, former head of

the I.M.F., and sorry, former Finance Minister, former head of the I.M.F. now at the Central Bank, and it's a completely different role she has to

play: one of price stability and monetary stimulus.

At the same time, of course, as her old friend Janet Yellen is doing the same thing at the Fed. But people are now saying, Julia, that there's too

much money, the prospect of too much stimulus, certainly in the U.S. Now you look at a couple of trillion in the E.U. Well, the President of the

E.C.B. denies that there's any risk of too much money moving about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE LAGARDE, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK: There is the stimulus that is needed around the world, because the world is in this unbelievable

exceptional situation, and the stimulus is needed now.

Janet speaks from a position where she is now Secretary of Treasury and she goes big with fiscal. When I said no limits and we have to go fast and we

have to go big that was back in March, I was speaking from a position of Central Bank Governor.

What is characteristic of this particular crisis is that we go hand in hand. Fiscal and monetary did not work so well together back in 2008 or

2011 in Europe, and very often, you heard the Central Bank governors saying, you know, it cannot just be about monetary policy, we are not the

only game in town. You don't hear that anymore.

Because both on the fiscal front and on the monetary front, policies are working hand in hand and are really laying the ground for recovery to take

hold after we have done with that period where economies have switched off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: This is fascinating because what she is admitting is that more has -- whatever has to be borrowed, will need to be borrowed, regardless of any

inflationary pressures, although nobody is seeing that at the moment.

And this idea of going hand in hand: monetary and fiscal, which is different, she said. She also told me that she'd never seen such

cooperation at the national level.

But the problem, Julia, is that the E.U. funds that they've borrowed will devolve down to the national level and the regional level, and there, she

is worried about implementation and how the money actually gets spent.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And they are still arguing over how to do it. But Richard, you raise a great point and we've said it since the beginning.

Inflation, who cares? Debt, who cares? Deficit, who cares?

[09:55:12]

QUEST: You will.

CHATTERLEY: We just have to spend.

QUEST: You will. You will, Julia. You will care about inflation one day, and you will care about that deficit one day.

CHATTERLEY: Just not today. Thank you. And I look forward to watching more of that interview on "Quest Means Business." Once again, great job.

QUEST: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: And the E.C.B. President this week. Good job, Richard. I just mentioned there, yes, Christine Lagarde, more of that interview on "Quest

Means Business" later on, and I will be there with you, too.

Okay, that's it for the show. Thank you, Richard.

And if you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages in the coming hours. You can for

@jchatterleyCNN.

Stay safe. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is next.

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[10:00:00]

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