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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Countries Send Oxygen to India as COVID Cases Mount; Crypto Gains Help Drive Tesla to Record Profits; Archegos Collapse Caused Banks over $10 Billion. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired April 27, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:02]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Live from New York, I'm Julia Chatterley. This is FIRST MOVE and here is your need to know.
Aid arriving. Countries send oxygen to India as COVID cases mount.
Bitcoin bump. Crypto gains help drive Tesla to record profits.
And fund fiasco. The Archegos collapse caused banks over $10 billion.
It's Tuesday. Let's make a move.
Welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. It's great to be with you as always. It is also great to see the global community joining India's battle against
COVID-19. The first shipments of life-saving medical aid from the United Kingdom have just arrived. France, Russia and Mexico have all announced
offers of aid, too, and China urging its private companies to provide assistance on top of that.
We'll discuss what's happening and what more is needed with the President of the Public Health Foundation of India coming up on the show.
Now, help for India comes as global COVID cases rise for the ninth straight week. The United States announcing plans to ship its supply of unused
AstraZeneca vaccines and we're talking as many as 60 million doses to other countries to help ease the crisis.
For now, it's a busy day on global markets with the U.S. stocks beginning the session at records driven by optimism over the pace of reopenings in
the United States. But of course that is increasingly matched by concerns over things like labor shortages, overheating and inflationary risks, too.
That's something that the Federal Reserve will have to tackle in their Q&A session tomorrow amid ongoing speculation, of course, about when they will
start to reduce support.
I can tell you, not now. It's not happening any time soon.
Stocks remain near record highs in Europe, too, and a cautious session across Asia followed. Germany and Japan Both raising their growth estimates
for this year. A stark contrast, of course, between emerging markets and developed markets. But that's what's happening with the vaccine rollouts.
Let's get to the drivers. Heartbreaking scenes in India as a further 2,800 people are lost to the pandemic. The overwhelming numbers have meant that
many grieving families are now forced to say goodbye to loved ones at makeshift crematoriums.
Our Vedika Sud has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER (on camera): These raging fires will continue all day and through the evening. The surge in cases has been so much that there
is a waiting list for these bodies to be put on the pile by family members.
There's a queue outside just waiting for the final rites to end for a family member who has died of COVID-19.
Body after body being brought into this crematorium in India's national capital of New Delhi that has seen a huge surge not only in cases, but in
fatalities as well. Family members pulling out bodies such as this one from ambulances lined up on this crematorium ground and taking them for
cremation.
They have grown up with these people. They've lived with them, and now, it's time to say their final goodbye.
NEERAJ PAL, UNCLE DIED OF COVID-19 (through translator): My uncle died at about 11:15 p.m. on April 24th. The hospital did not inform us. When we
called the help desk, we were told he is no more.
SUD: One of the most heartbreaking scenes I witnessed was when a 27-year- old was picking up the ashes of his 49-year-old mother. His brother is still in hospital recovering from COVID-19, while his father has just got
home after recovering from infection.
I'm standing behind another crematorium, this time in south Delhi. What you can see is about 50 people at work here. They are trying to get a hundred
platforms ready. This is going to be a makeshift crematorium because of the increase, the exponential increase in fatalities. We believe that this
makeshift crematorium should be ready in the days to come.
I'm standing outside a COVID emergency ward at a top hospital in New Delhi. It is here that a lot of people have been coming and almost begging for
beds and oxygen for their loved ones. If you look at all of these cars starting from here, almost a dozen of them parked right outside this
emergency ward. They are asking just for beds and oxygen, which they have been denied as of now because there are no beds available according to
officials inside this hospital.
There are old people here, old women, old men; there are even younger people who are here gasping for breath in these cars. They are just waiting
for that one lucky moment where they get a bed inside this facility.
SONIKA BABBAR, DAUGHTER OF COVID-19 PATIENT: I brought my father here. There are no beds. There are people in the corridors lying on the floor,
and the very first question says: show your PCR test. What is the infection rate? Am I getting oxygen cylinder? To which I wasn't aware of.
I thought this is what the hospital would provide.
[09:05:13]
SUD: Relatives of patients who are suffering from COVID-19 have been waiting for ambulances also to take them home, but these ambulances have
been so busy getting patients here on to crematoriums that it has been extremely difficult for them to get the sick ones home after being denied a
bed.
Vedika Sud, CNN, New Delhi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And this, as India reports more than 323,000 new cases today alone. The United States now saying it plans to share millions of doses of
AstraZeneca vaccines with other nations including India.
Ivan Watson joins us now with more. Ivan, I know you were watching that, too. It's kind of unbearable to watch and I can't help but looking at what
we were hearing there in terms of numbers and wondering if we are underestimating both caseloads and lives lost.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Every expert you talk to in India who looks at this data says that the numbers are much lower.
Tuesday's numbers officially, of new COVID cases came down a bit lower than Monday. There were 323,000 new cases according to official figures. Some
2,700 people who died.
But the experts that we've been speaking to are saying even in good times, without a pandemic, that the number of deaths in India are miscounted or
are below normal counts, and the cause of death also does not accurately reflect the real causes of deaths on the ground.
This was echoed by the World Health Organization's chief scientist. Take a listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN, CHIEF SCIENTIST, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: The actual number of people who had the infection as measured by antibodies is
at least 20 to 30 times higher than what had been reported.
Now, while the testing capacity of India has increased dramatically, they're doing, I think, close to two million tests a day, that's still not
sufficient because the national average now, I think, the positivity rate is about 15 percent. In some cities, like Delhi, it is up to 30 percent or
higher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: So, for example, Julia, one statistician and doctor that I spoke with a short while ago said it is probably -- it could be five times higher
the death toll from COVID right now from what we're actually seeing in official figures.
But there still needs to be more work -- there is a lot more work to be done while the healthcare system is barely coping with the sheer numbers of
new infections.
Now, we are seeing a reaction from different state governments that are trying to respond to the surge of new cases in this deadly second wave. The
States of Punjab for example, and Karnataka imposing nighttime curfews and weekend curfews to try to kind of reduce the spread and the increase that
we are seeing.
And we are also starting to see the international aid starting to arrive. For example, a shipment coming from the U.K. arriving, and announcements
that aid is going to be coming not only from the U.S., but from the European Union, sending in oxygen, remdesivir, and oxygen generators.
The New Delhi government saying that it is ordering oxygen from Thailand and it is accepting aid coming from France as well.
And this is so vital because as you just saw in my colleague, Vedika's report, every bed, every tank of oxygen can make the difference between a
life saved and lost in this crucial time -- Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, That aid can't come soon enough. Ivan Watson there, thank you so much for that report.
All right, let's move on. Tesla's earnings topping $1 billion for the first time ever as the EV maker posted record profit for the third quarter in a
row, as well as producing record production and deliveries.
Clare Sebastian joins me now. Clare, the market reaction to this was interesting. You can hit a record, at least in terms of numbers, but it is
how you hit that record that matters and when you look at the amount of money that they used or brought in as a result of tax credits and Bitcoin
profits, suddenly profitable numbers look very different.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is the really interesting small print and it was a very small print, Julia, in this
earnings report. On the numbers overall, revenue was up 74 percent year-on- year, down a little bit from the previous quarter though. They have had some serious issues with supply chain, the chip shortage, the port capacity
issues.
But then look closer at the profitability, $438 million in net profit in the quarter of which the positive impact $101 million came from sales of
Bitcoin. The company spent $1.5 billion on Bitcoin in the quarter, they then liquidated 10 percent of that, and that was hugely profitable for
them.
[09:10:10]
SEBASTIAN: So, an extraordinary situation where Bitcoin contributed almost a quarter of the company's profitability.
And then you look at environmental credits which is where Tesla earns extra credits for sort of beating carbon emission targets. It can then sell those
to other automakers. It made more than $500 million in terms of contributions to revenue in the quarter. So that was another contributor to
profitability.
So look, a serious achievement still for this company, the seventh straight profitable quarter, but definitely worth looking at the small print and I
think that's what the market is doing this morning.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, so, actually a record quarter of profits was actually a loss, just to be clear.
We'll just let that sit there.
Talk to me about chip shortages, because I did see that Elon Musk and the CFO suggested they could hang around for a year or so.
SEBASTIAN: Yes. He did say they would continue at least into the second and third quarter. He called this, Julia, some of the most difficult supply
chain challenges that we have ever experienced in the life of Tesla, and you and I know that Tesla has experienced production challenges in the
past.
He said that -- well, the CFO also said that they had seen costs go up as a result of this, not just the chip shortages, but the port capacity what he
called high expedite costs, obviously, for having to spend extra money to get product in faster.
We know that Tesla did have to pause production at its California factory briefly in February. This has been rippling across the auto industry. Tesla
is clearly not immune to this and it will be something that continues to be out of their control as they go forward, compounding the fact that this
company is trying to grow.
Don't forget, they are building factories in Berlin and Austin and trying to scale in China. So a serious supply chain issue to be contending with at
a time of high growth like this.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, chip shortage is not the only issue, to your point, as well. That critical relationship with China is going to be so important for
deliveries and manufacturing going forward.
Clare Sebastian, Bitcoin specialist as well as -- except we are talking Tesla of course -- great to have you with us. Thank you.
All right, so, from a $1 billion profit-ish to a multibillion dollar loss. We are talking $10 billion, in fact, that's the hit that Wall Street has
taken due to the collapse of Archegos Capital. UBS, the latest bank to reveal its exposure a worse than expected loss of over $770 million.
Paul La Monica has been keeping tally for us. Nomura also caught in the web here and announcing their loss today as well.
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes. Nomura's loss is much bigger than expected, Julia, about $2.7 billion or so. I believe we have a chart
that shows all of the big investment banks that have taken a hit so far and if you look at that, Credit Suisse has been really been hammered by $5.5
billion, so the majority of the Archegos losses are tied to Credit Suisse.
We have seen some executive shakeups there. Management moves as a result of this debacle.
It's really shining a light, Julia, on the murky business of family offices. These wealthy individuals who are running their own money, they're
not as regulated by the S.E.C. as mutual funds and hedge funds, and pension funds, and we've seen this blow up because they made bad bets that went
wrong on huge media stocks like Viacom-Discovery and some Chinese internet companies and all of a sudden, big banks are taking a hit because of it.
CHATTERLEY: This is such a great point, Paul, and I think our audience needs to understand, this is not an ordinary hedge fund. It was a family
office.
This is what -- we are talking $6 trillion worth of assets around the world of wealthy families that are, to your point, lightly regulated, and perhaps
more trusted by the banks as well because these are important relationships.
What do you think the regulators need to do as they look at this and understand how do we prevent this kind of thing happening again? Because it
is not just the onus on the banks to make sure this doesn't happen again, it's the regulators, too.
LA MONICA: Yes, definitely. I mean, obviously, the banks themselves need to do a better job of analyzing their own books and their portfolios and
realizing that if these family offices have these highly levered bets on a select group of stocks that might not be the best thing in the world.
But putting that aside, yes, I think the regulators need to realize that they can't just let family offices do whatever they want because they are
not hedge funds or mutual funds.
If they have the potential to blow up small portions of the market and then that has a ripple effect, then it really behooves the S.E.C. and other
regulators to step in and try and come up with new rules to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again that there are more stringent
guidelines and risk practices put into place.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and banks find that they are all on the other side of the trade, and all can't get out when they need to.
Paul La Monica, thank you very much for that.
[09:15:01]
CHATTERLEY: All right. Let me bring you up to speed with some other stories making headlines around the world.
Turkey is imposing a nationwide lockdown to try and contain a severe COVID- 19 outbreak. Starting Thursday, people will have to stay indoors except for essential reasons. All intercity travel will require advanced permission
and schools will need to move classes online.
The measures will be enforced through the rest of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan and are due to end on May 17th.
As Brazil reels from a deadly new wave of COVID-19 cases, the Health Minister has admitted vaccine shortages mean some people may not get their
second dose on time.
Meanwhile, Brazil's Health Regulatory Board unanimously rejected Russia's Sputnik vaccine citing a lack of information on its safety and efficacy.
And later today, U.S. President Joe Biden is expected to announce new guidance for vaccinated Americans wearing masks outdoors. Mask wearing has
been a contentious topic since the start of the pandemic. The new guidance may also lay out more of what people who are vaccinated and even those that
aren't can now do.
Okay, still to come here on FIRST MOVE, the ultimate reward for a shopping splurge. The startup that lets you earn Bitcoin while you buy.
And mind bending. The NASDAQ listed biotech that says hallucinogenic drug hold the cure for mental health illness. Stay with us. That's all coming
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. A quiet open on tap for the Wall Street majors with the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ set to inch further into
record territory. That's the picture as we speak.
All-time highs driven by a pretty scintillating start to earnings season with more than 80 percent of companies beating expectations so far.
Package delivery giant UPS posting a 27 percent revenue rise today as online shopping trends strengthen even with the reopenings that we are
seeing. Its shares set to rise as you can see, over nine percent in trade today.
Alphabet and Microsoft kickoff Big Tech earnings season later today. Also, Apple reporting tomorrow, and Apple also rolling out a software update this
week that makes it easier for users to opt out of sharing data with advertisers.
[09:20:10]
CHATTERLEY: If you remember, it is a feature that Facebook has said could never particularly impact its business.
In the meantime, more global pharmaceutical giants offering support for COVID stricken India today. Gilead donating almost half a million doses of
an antiviral drug. Merck meanwhile is sending India some $5 million worth of emergency equipment, and this all comes as much-needed aid from other
nations begins to arrive in India.
A number of governments are scrambling to send oxygen, ventilators and other supplies to help save lives.
Dr. Srinath Reddy is President of the Public Health Foundation of India and he joins us now. Dr. Reddy, fantastic to have you on the show with us. I
think your role as a foundation there, you have a very good sense of what the capacity constraints are in the healthcare system in India. Can you
give us a sense of what these supplies will do to help save lives today?
DR. K. SRINATH REDDY, PRESIDENT, PUBLIC HEALTH FOUNDATION OF INDIA: Well, certainly both the suggestion of global solidarity and also bringing some
essential supplies in a time of need, these are very helpful indeed. Of course, the major challenges that we do have are on the ground in terms of
hospital beds, the immediate availability of oxygen in an adequate amount to the various hospitals and the shortage of healthcare workers who are
battling bravely but still running short of numbers given the surge of cases. These are some of the challenges.
But getting some of the oxygen generators, as well as essential drugs and other equipment from other countries is certainly going to be very helpful.
CHATTERLEY: We were just showing some of the numbers here and they are eye-watering, 323,000 COVID cases reported today alone. A further 2,800
lives lost. Dr. Reddy, in your understanding, do you think that the numbers are being underreported in terms of cases? I'm showing a chart on the
screen now that shows a straight line upwards in terms of cases, too.
Do you think we don't really have a sense of how bad it is?
REDDY: Well, it's very likely that the cases are underestimated because even if we test everybody who is to be tested, we know that the testing
actually gives only 60 percent to 70 percent positivity rates. And surely, not everybody who needs to be tested is being tested at this point in time,
despite very large testing numbers overall.
So we are definitely undercounting, and unless we test much more, we will still not be able to find out even what the real -- how close we are to the
number. However, it is the deaths which we are more certain in the past year where the undercounting would have been much less.
This time, the surge is resulting in a number of out of hospital deaths and it is difficult to certify them, and therefore, the deaths too are being
under counted this year substantially and that is a constant concern.
CHATTERLEY: The government was criticized in -- and during the first wave for locking down too comprehensively and perhaps doing too much, and I
think there are those that look at this and say actually that it made the government reluctant in the second wave to react quickly with lockdowns.
Is that the only answer here? More stringent lockdowns, preventing elections, religious festivals, people meeting for birthdays and families?
A lockdown is required to suppress cases.
REDDY: Well, we need a coordinated country-wide containment, but because the outbreak is affecting different parts of the country differently in
terms of intensity at this moment, perhaps the states which require a full lockdown or a partial lockdown would be different than those which may
require it maybe a week or two later.
So we have to have that assessment locally done in a large country, but nevertheless, other containment measures of preventing super spreader
events of large gatherings, getting everybody to wear a mask and wear it properly, all of this has to be done across the country. Travel
restrictions as well.
CHATTERLEY: I think we've lost the Dr. Reddy there. We'll try and reestablish connection, but for now, oh, Dr. Reddy, can you hear me?
REDDY: I can hear you, yes.
CHATTERLEY: We just lost you briefly there. You were just talking about the need for more stringent lockdowns, but in specific areas. Do you think
those local governments are failing in not taking action swiftly to lockdown even in their specific localities?
[09:25:03]
REDDY: Well, some of the local governments have already started doing that over the last week, and then some of them have extended it this week as
well. The state of Karnataka went into a lockdown yesterday.
So, I think some of these decisions have been taken a bit late, but nevertheless, I think there is urgency now in several states to try and
contain the pandemic, both by way of lockdowns or near lockdowns and construable restrictions on travel as well.
But it is important that we get both the policy action as well as the public precautions in terms of masking into full play across the country.
CHATTERLEY: Do you think people understand that? Do you think people now in the face of this crisis realize that they need to take measures to
protect themselves? Because for those people who are in India and are suffering at this moment, and watching, Dr. Reddy, what's your advice to
them to help protect themselves?
REDDY: Well, we now know that it is not just droplets spread, but also spread by aerosols, and then therefore, ill-ventilated places can
particularly become very dangerous areas, and with the virus spreading so fast, and particularly with three variants of the problem infecting with
even greater veracity, it is absolutely essential that --
CHATTERLEY: I think we lost him there. I am going to thank him because I'm afraid we will get him back and lose him again. That was Dr. Srinath Reddy,
President of the Public Health Foundation of India. We thank him.
We'll be back after this with the market open.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:01]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE, and a fist pump there at the New York Stock Exchange.
We've got fresh all-time highs for the NASDAQ and for the S&P 500 as investors await key earnings from Microsoft and Alphabet later today, as
well as Fed Chair Jerome Powell's latest economic update tomorrow, all eyes on that, of course, too.
Tesla shares under a bit of pressure despite posting record earnings and a more than 70 percent rise in Q1 sales. Elon Musk says EV demand -- electric
vehicle demand is at its highest ever, but concerns over what contributed to that earnings beat. More than $100 million of those profits coming from
the sale of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin trading near $55,000.00 once again today amid reports that JPMorgan is set to roll out an actively managed Bitcoin Fund later this year.
Bitcoin's market cap once again above $1 trillion, just as a marker point.
Now, as the Coinbase IPO cements crypto firmly in the spotlight, one of my next guests says the Bitcoin rewards operator, Lolli, will be the next
Coinbase. Now, what does that mean? Well, unlike Coinbase which is an exchange, Lolli members who make online purchases get rewards in portions
of Bitcoin.
Over a thousand retailers are taking part and its founder says it's a great way to get a foot in the crypto door. We are joined now by Alex Adelman, he
is the CEO and cofounder of Lolli and Alexis Ohanian who is the founder of 776 and of course, Reddit. Alexis was an early investor in Coinbase, and
just led Lolli's last funding round, which was also backed by Serena Williams's venture fund.
Wow, that was a lot of information. Guys, great to have you on the show. Alex, I'm going to start with you because I feel like we've been on this
journey with you. You talked to us over two years ago when you were just starting out. Just talk to us what the latest rise in cryptocurrency has
meant for users from the platform.
ALEX ADELMAN, CEO AND COFOUNDER, LOLLI: Yes, it has been amazing. We've seen record breaking growth for the last six months consecutively. So more
and more people are coming in to the Bitcoin space and they are finding Lolli as an easy way to earn Bitcoin instead of invest in Bitcoin.
So, as you know, we work with over a thousand top merchants and our users can earn every time that they shop at those merchants. So, it has been a
really amazing bull run, and I think that it is just getting started.
CHATTERLEY: Alexis, tell me what you saw in this and why you think it's the next Coinbase, and explain what you mean by that.
ALEXIS OHANIAN, FOUNDER OF 776 AND REDDIT: You know, I was very fortunate to have been in the seed round of Coinbase back in like 2012 when crypto
was very, very early. It's clear to me now, especially post their IPO, the user experience of crypto is what is going to define this next sort of five
years of its growth, and creating an on-ramp as efficient as Lolli is I think going to be a big part of helping crypto get to the heights of Main
Street adoption we think it can get to.
Because it is not about, do you have enough money to invest? It is simply, do you want to save money buying things you are already buying online and
then get that money back in Bitcoin? And that user experience means a lot.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, some would call this a no-brainer, but how do you judge value and valuation in the crypto space? And we can bring it back to Lolli,
but just broadly, Alexis, I mean, Coinbase investing in 2012, that was a different prospect altogether. But today, value and valuation.
OHANIAN: Yes, I mean, you know, the advantage of being an early stage investor is regardless, you know, 10 years out when these companies have
their liquidity moments, you kind of look back on that early stage investment and think, wow, like there really is no value investing in early
stage venture, because at the end of the day, you know, a lot of this is dictated by the sort of running market trends.
We now have some great public market comps with companies like Coinbase, and just generally, the momentum that we have seen around crypto now means
that a company like Lolli, I think is on a path to a lot of growth and we feel really fortunate to have been as early investors as we are.
CHATTERLEY: Alex, just talk about it for our viewers that may not remember the interview that we did. This is where people can go on all their
participating retailers, they can buy products that they would be buying any way. It is an effective cashback, but the cash in this case is Bitcoin.
I mean, if I look at some of the cash back receipts that you can get with some of your competitors in that space, the rewards that people have got
from Bitcoin over this period of time is multiple times that.
ADELMAN: Yes, I think since we were first on the show, Bitcoin has 12x'd or maybe even 14x'd since we were first on. So any of these users that have
come on board and expected to earn something similar to cash back, many of those purchases have actually paid for themselves with their Bitcoin
rewards, so that's been great to see.
[09:35:07]
ADELMAN: And we just actually passed 250,000 users and we have given out over 3.5 million in Bitcoin rewards to date. So people are earning real
money and it's growing rapidly because of the rise of Bitcoin.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, you initially talked about this as an on-ramp to crypto, and I think you've both sort of suggested this is what is so great
about this prospect.
Who are your users? Just give us a sense of who actually is being introduced in your mind to the crypto space and to Bitcoin specifically as
a result of using this platform.
ADELMAN: Yes. So a lot of our users are new to Bitcoin, new to crypto. We definitely have some people who have already used Coinbase before, but the
vast majority now have never had crypto before and they are seeing Lolli as a risk-freeway to actually get into the Bitcoin space.
We have about 70 percent male user, 30 percent female. And then we have -- it is a very young demographic, so it is around 18 to 30, which is great
for a lot of these advertisers who want to reach a new demographic that might not be a coupon or cash-back user.
A lot of these -- a part of why the 30 percent is interesting, 30 percent female user is interesting, is because previously about four percent of all
crypto users were female. So, we're dramatically increasing the amount of female users in the crypto space, which I think is very important for
financial inclusivity and giving this next group of assets, make it more accessible to everybody.
CHATTERLEY: Alexis, talk to me about a potential IPO for this one? I mean, Coinbase is like -- what is it -- eight or nine years, but the
appreciation, if we can call it that, of crypto is very different today.
OHANIAN: Yes. We have no IPO plans on a near-term horizon. But we are quite excited about Lolli's growth and think there's a lot of room to run
here, and I think, just having more of this accessible in the public markets is good for the space overall.
And like I said, I think the broader mission of Lolli to bring more inclusion, not just women, but more people into crypto, the better.
CHATTERLEY: How do you look at regulation of this space, Alexis? Do you see it as a risk? Do you see it as a benefit? Because this is one of the
big unknowns, for all the benefits and you talk about financial inclusion, you hear Jay Powell for example, we hear the Treasury Secretary warning
about the risks of fraud.
Do you still think there's a significant misunderstanding about the space and concerns about the space, too, from people that have not invested and
volatility for those that have?
OHANIAN: Yes, I think there's absolutely -- it is important here for a very light touch, and I think it's really clear that with more and more
mainstream financial institutions looking to satisfy demand of their customers by finding ways to get them invested in Bitcoin and other
cryptocurrencies, I think at the end of the day, people want a great user experience.
And you know, you talked about currency fluctuations, and yes, that's a real part of crypto for a very long time. However, we sort of take for
granted in many countries in the last -- in the United States and Britain, a sort of stability of currency. But there are lots of people for whom the
volatility of crypto is actually really appealing compared to the volatility of the currency in their home state.
And I think this will continue to improve over time and I think -- I hope the U.S. government acts in a way that really makes sense and that doesn't
stifle innovation and that continues to give more and more opportunity to more and more Americans.
CHATTERLEY: And to your point, the ability to cross borders as well in certain nations, too.
OHANIAN: True.
CHATTERLEY: Alex, what about the prospect of adding other cryptos, not just Bitcoin rewards here, but other growing digital assets, Ether, for
example? Thoughts on that?
ADELMAN: Yes, so I think Bitcoin has already served its value to society. It's not going anywhere. It's extremely important for the world to
understand what Bitcoin is.
When we survey people who don't have crypto currency, very few understand or know what Ethereum is, and I think even fewer actually want it. Right
now, Bitcoin is in extremely high demand. It's very important for people to understand what Bitcoin is and why it's so important.
And so, it is our duty to spread Bitcoin to as many people as possible. Over time, if there is demand and Ethereum continues to develop as a
potential store of value or as a money, then you know, we would be open to considering offering other cryptocurrencies.
But right now, Bitcoin is the most important. It's extremely important, and everyone understands it and attempts to own it and we think people should
do that very easily through Lolli.
[09:40:07]
CHATTERLEY: So no plans to add Dogecoin or Dogecoin -- depending on what you want to call it at this moment, just checking, Alex, just checking.
ADELMAN: No Dogecoin yet.
OHANIAN: Yes though, you notice he kept it open.
CHATTERLEY: Alexis, I am sure you agree.
ADELMAN: Yes, keyword.
CHATTERLEY: Alexis, just very quickly, are you still an investor by the way in Coinbase?
OHANIAN: Yes. Oh absolutely. You know, I did -- I transferred a few of my shares over to Colin Kaepernick's Know Your Rights Foundation. You know,
I've done a little bit of work with some of the money there, but the vast majority is still there in Coinbase stock, it is still in my possession and
I'm holding for the long-term.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And for the long run, like Lolli, it seems. Guys, great to have you on the show. I look forward to tracking your progress. Alex and
Alexis, thank you once again.
All right. Up next, something a little trippy. I speak to the CEO of the newest NASDAQ member about using psychedelics to treat addiction and
anxiety. Stay with us. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Leading psychedelic medicine company, MindMed began trading on the NASDAQ just moments ago. The biotech
company working on a pipeline of medicines based on psychedelic substances including LSD and MDMA. It says micro doses of hallucinogenic drugs could
treat mental health issues including anxiety, addiction and ADHD.
Joining us now is JR Rahn, he is founder and co-CEO of MindMed. JR, fantastic to have you on the show. And congratulations by the way on
today's listing. There will be people watching that are thinking, what on earth is this company doing? Just explain to me what the focus is for
MindMed.
JR RAHN, FOUNDER AND CO-CEO OF MINDMED: Well, I think most people, Julia, look at us and see three letters, LSD, at least some of the venture
capitalists did in the beginning, it was fine then.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
[09:45:05]
RAHN: But the reality is, we are a mental health company. We are treating a very, very, very big problem in the United States that is now affecting
40 percent of Americans either having some form of mental illness or an addiction during the pandemic.
And so psychedelics are just the catalysts to really look at this space entirely differently.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, what caught my attention when I was reading about you is a phrase that you used, and it was that you were hoping to create an
antibiotic for addiction. The use of the word cure. I mean, without being too complicated with the chemistry, how does this work? Because again, to
your point, when you hear LSD, the last thing you think is that is going to help someone with mental health issues or with addiction. So how is the
science actually going to work? Because it has to be about the science.
RAHN: Well, completely. And for some of the programs that we are working on, we are working with what we call psychedelic assisted therapy, and the
two words at the end are very important to remember.
Psychedelics are not going to be panaceas that solve all the world's problems and mental health issues. They are catalysts for patients to
embark on a journey and have an experience that they can then transition back into their normal life.
Integration is going to be a key component of that. Therapy sessions afterwards in the weeks and months following. This is not a one and done,
but it is what we think one of the most innovative approaches to mental health in the last 25 years.
CHATTERLEY: What is the conversation with investors been like? And how has that evolved even over the last five years? Because again, bringing this to
market, getting investment from investors, I just wonder whether even just the last year and what we've been through perhaps has changed people's
mindsets about MindMed.
RAHN: Well, last -- I think the horns on the head have gone away. When I first walked into --
CHATTERLEY: Congratulations.
RAHN: Thank you. When I first walked in to Sand Hill Road in Silicon Valley, you know, two and a half to three years ago, nobody wanted to touch
this.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
RAHN: We were persona non grata. We were laughed out of rooms. But I think, you know, COVID-19 has really put mental health in perspective, and
if psychedelics can be the solution to mental health, then Wall Street and institutional investors are waking up that we just as a society have not
allocated capital in a proper manner.
We spend $3.5 trillion a year on healthcare in the United States. Less than 10 percent of that is allocated towards behavioral health which can have as
big an impact on your body as your physical health.
So I think what investors are understanding and now with NASDAQ accepting us, this industry is growing up, and it is not necessarily a fringe
investment theme anymore. This is going mainstream.
CHATTERLEY: Define what's different about what you're trying to do here versus, I think some people here again will be listening to this and making
a comparison with cannabis. You're not hoping for future deregulation and ability to take these medicines or use them. What you're looking for is
actual medicines that have F.D.A. approval that can then be adopted by physicians.
RAHN: We're looking for evidence-based clinical trials that go through the one way that you make a medicine on the market in the United States and
that is the F.D.A. pathway. And in order to do that, we have to do some work. This is not going to be a quick process. This will take time.
But once we can eventually one day, when the F.D.A. wants to make a decision on an approval, it will be available in all 50 states. That's
vastly different than anything that happened in the cannabis space. And so, this is really a mental health play. This is not about making your burning
man experience a better experience. We're interested in treating mental health.
CHATTERLEY: How far away are we from that? From actually having drugs with F.D.A. approval on the market that people are using, assuming the trials
that I know you already starting and are engaged in go well?
RAHN: I think we're three to five years away before you see a psychedelic on the market. There's multiple groups working on it. We are one of them.
This is a whole new field. One of the -- a lot of people focus on the trials and that's important because we need to prove that something is safe
and effective. But the other thing that we need to work on as a company and as an industry is to make these medicines accessible.
We don't want to make a therapy that's only available on 5th Avenue. That doesn't help the problem. These need to be accessible in all
disenfranchised communities across America. Sixty percent of U.S. counties don't actually have a psychiatrist.
So MindMed is looking at how we can scale therapy and psychedelic assisted therapy through technology because ultimately, I believe scaling it is the
blockbuster drug.
[09:50:06]
CHATTERLEY: What's the key and what is going to be the biggest challenge?
RAHN: It comes back to that. There are just very few psychiatrists in this country. We don't have mental health infrastructure. We need to reengineer
and rebuild that and we need to do it now more than ever.
COVID-19 has just wreaked havoc on our mental health, and I think the lingering effects of mental health are going to be bigger than what
happened during the pandemic and that's really sad.
CHATTERLEY: I couldn't agree more with you and it is not just about America, it's all over the world.
JR, so you loosen the entire healthcare system here though, in the interim. JR Rahn, stay in touch, please and keep us updated on your progress.
Founder and co-CEO of MindMed there. Thank you.
You're watching FIRST MOVE. More to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. When the world physically paused for the pandemic, the transportation industry began to reimage the ways in
which we move. This week, CNN's Bianca Nobilo is exploring how technology is playing a pivotal role in the future of travel. She visited one of the
London's busiest train stations to see how a tech startup is working to rebuild trust in public transport.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): With travel slowly starting to build back up in the U.K., tech startup Open Space are hoping their
digital twin technology can help put people first in the way stations like St. Pancras International operate.
But how does a virtual train station actually work?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We first make a copy of the physical building by scanning the building and from that, we plan a monitoring infrastructure
that count and track people locally. That information is then stored on our servers and our algorithm processes that information.
NOBILO (voice over): In layman's term, using anonymized bird's eye camera footage, the Open Space technology can track and simulate the way the
public interacts with the building, which routes they favor from one platform to another where the bottlenecks form and crucially, for this era,
the areas where social distancing will be difficult.
NOBILO (on camera): The COVID pandemic has given a new relevance to this technology. When you were designing it, did you have any idea it could have
this application?
NICOLAS LE GLATIN, CEO, OPEN SPACE: The pandemic has very much changed the problem that the operators have to deal with. It is not so much
overcapacity or large number of people using an asset, it's about bringing customers back to the infrastructure, building back confidence.
NOBILO: With all this modeling at your fingertips every day, can you anticipate how design might change to adapt to human behavior?
[09:55:01]
LE GLATIN: I think one of the key opportunities is for the building to adapt to the experience. The building should fundamentally encourage and
reinforce the experience, yes.
A building is a bit like a living entity. You know, it experiences different behaviors, different patterns of movement in the morning, in the
evening, in the winter and in the summer.
So for the building with a built-in environment becoming more dynamic and responsive to the needs of people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Okay, and that's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. Search
for @jchatterleyCNN.
In the meantime, stay safe.
"Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is next, and I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:00]
END
