Return to Transcripts main page
First Move with Julia Chatterley
Ukraine's Zelenskyy calls for Tougher NATO Action; WSJ: Russia Threatens to Arrest Biz Leaders who Defy Government; Bank for International Settlements Suspends Russian Central Bank; Russians Close in on Kyiv as Ukrainians Continue to Resist; Direct Relief Delivers Medical Supplies to Ukraine; Russia's war takes Perilous Turn, Nearing NATO's Doorstep. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired March 14, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: What's happening on the ground there and that's the story we're seeing every single day in Ukraine.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, a disregard for human life. It is playing out moment by moment. CNN coverage continues right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: You're watching CNN. I'm Julia Chatterley in New York with you for the next hour. And we begin with the
latest from Ukraine, explosions in Kyiv and an attack just six miles from NATO's Eastern frontier as the conflict escalates.
Homes in the capital were targeted as well as this military base not far from the border with Poland. The White House swarming attacks on NATO
territory will trigger a full response. Meanwhile, new video out of Mariupol showing Russian tanks blasting an apartment building.
The Mayor's Office says some residents have managed to escape from the city. And tragically, a pregnant woman wounded by shelling at the city's
maternity hospital last week has passed away along with her unborn child. As the fourth round of talks between the two nations gets underway,
President Zelenskyy repeated his call to the West for NATO to enforce a no fly zone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: If you do not close our sky it's only a matter of time before Russian missiles fall in your territory, NATO
territory on the homes of citizens of NATO countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And a potential sign of the escalating pressure on Russia, Moscow asked China for military and financial assistance that according to
two U.S. officials, both Moscow and Beijing are denying the claims and in the last few moments Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, releasing a
fresh statement urging his people to stand firm against Russian aggression.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: We must hold on. We must keep on struggle in order to win and to get to a peace right that Ukrainians deserve an honest peace with security
guarantees for our state for our people in order to put this down on paper. Negotiations are difficult and today that we have started a video
conference meeting between the delegations; everybody is waiting for the news. Tonight, we will report back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: And as President Zelenskyy said there those talks are happening virtually today. Now for latest Clarissa Ward is in Kyiv and just spoke to
my colleague Brianna Keilar.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): So there's been a lot of fighting going on here all day, Brianna. And in fact,
we can still hear it rumbling away in the background coming from that direction our cameraman - when he was actually able an image of the jet
trials in the sky.
It appears what happened is that Ukrainian missile defense batteries were activated targeting what we believe to be a Russian jet. We don't have any
sort of clarity on that. But that's what we believe happened.
All of this contributing to a picture of intensified fighting, particularly here in the capital you mentioned that air strike or rather missile strike,
we can't be sure which it was or shelling even frankly, in the suburb of - which hit an apartment building you can see the images of that residential
buildings civilians living there remarkably, only one person was killed, several were injured.
One can only assume that a lot of people have already evacuated from this city. And we're also getting reports of a major incident in Donetsk.
Donetsk is the sort of capital if you will, of the - one of these pro- Russian separatists' enclaves or breakaway republics.
The images that have been coming in images and videos CNN has been able to geo locate them appear to show at least several fatalities on a main street
in Donetsk. The Donetsk sort of pro Russian separatists leader has claimed that it was a Ukrainian - missile, and has claimed that 20 people were
killed.
CNN cannot independently verify those claims at all. But certainly all of this, leading to an increase in fighting increases in tensions, more and
more civilians being killed as a result of that. You mentioned the ongoing negotiations between the Ukrainian delegation and the Russian delegation.
Those are taking place today via video teleconference.
They're not in person, but certainly increasing pressure for the Russians to agree to some kind of a ceasefire, even if it's only a temporary
ceasefire, particularly to get people out of those besieged areas. You mentioned Mariupol where that woman and her baby were tragically killed in
the hit on the maternity hospital there but hundreds of thousands of civilians still pinned under with no food no water.
[09:05:00]
WARD (on camera): They've tried many times to try to get humanitarian aid in and try to evacuate civilians as part of the humanitarian corridor, so
far no success and that we'll see where the day leads in terms of these negotiations, whether there's any possibility or glimmer of hope at trying
to help some of the civilians trapped there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And as Clarissa mentioned, officials from Russia and Ukraine are at this hour holding their latest round of ceasefire talks, Ukraine's
negotiator warning that "Hard discussions lie ahead". Natasha Bertrand is following the talks from Brussels.
Natasha, good to have you with us and unlike the previous three times where nothing really came of these talks, there does seem to be a little greater
sense of optimism. And I catch it very carefully. But there does seem to be from both sides heading into these talks at least.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN REPORTER: There is bet Julia, yes. And the Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman actually said of U.S. Wendy Sherman said
yesterday that she does believe that there have been signs that the Russians might be willing to negotiate in good faith more serious about
negotiations moving forward.
But the Russians and Ukrainians are still very cautiously optimistic about this. The Ukrainians have said that, of course, there was no major
breakthrough in talks last week with the Russians in Turkey. Of course, that is when the Russian and Ukrainian Foreign Ministers met to try to
hammer out a way forward.
And the problem essentially was that the real decision maker here is Vladimir Putin. And of course, Zelenskyy and Putin are not speaking
directly. Zelenskyy has said that he is willing to speak with Putin, but that offer has not been taken up as of yet.
So the problem is that the Ukrainian and the Russian delegations are speaking but of course, the main decision maker, the main person calling
all the shots in this operation is Putin himself. And Putin has been speaking to European leaders.
Importantly, he has been speaking to the French President and the German Chancellor, for example, they have been in regular communication. He has
also been speaking with the Israeli Prime Minister. The United States has been watching all of this very - looking at how the Europeans have been
communicating with Putin and how he has been communicating his military plans to them?
No signs there either have a major breakthrough. According to the readouts we've gotten from the French Presidential Office, they do not see that
Putin is willing to pull back at this point. In fact, they see - they get a sense that he is only more emboldened and more willing to carry out his
operation and move forward towards the full destruction of the country. That is also something that the National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan,
said on Sunday.
So really, there's a cautious sense of optimism that maybe they will be able to get certain kind of hard objectives achieved here, namely, a
ceasefire, for example, or the implementation of new humanitarian corridors. But in terms of an actual agreement that both sides can come to,
that would make Russia actually pulled back from this conflict that still seems to be a long ways away, Julia?
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And we should wait for the outcome of those talks, and find out Natasha Bertrand there. Lots going on elsewhere, of course, to the
suggestion perhaps denied by both China and Russia that Russia has requested help from China, both on an economic front and beyond.
I have to say a growth environment in China that's challenged with slightly further pressure, global growth, the supply chain crisis and worse than the
already severe inflationary pressures that have been fueled by the Ukraine conflict and that's why we have a look at the Asia session first certainly
reflected.
You can see that the HANG SENG down almost 5 percent China shares weaker to a mark contrast to what we see in the West European stocks firmer after 3
percent losses for German and French indices last week, U.S. Futures steady after five weeks of declines for the DOW.
Investors perhaps sensing shift as we've been discussing the pressure on Russia escalating rumors that it asked China for help that would of course
confirm that the upshot being perhaps Mr. Putin is ready to compromise we'll see.
The energy complex though seemingly reflecting that hope to after falling 5 percent last week, as you can see, a little bit more easing going on there.
Brent crude trading just above $108 a barrel just for context though both up 15 percent for the month and 40 percent year-to-date, a critical week
ahead for investors with the U.S. Central Bank set to raise rates for the first time in more than three years.
There's also remains the very real threat of a Russian debt default this week two key international bond payments coming due for Russia on
Wednesday, Russia's Finance Ministry, threatening to make the payments in Rubles rather than dollars, given the country's inability to tap much of
its foreign reserves a violation of the bonds contracts.
In the meantime, Russia denying an exclusive report from "The Wall Street Journal" that it's threatened Western businesses. Over the weekend the
Russian Embassy in the United States called the report "Pure Fiction" adding the West should "Abandon the vicious practice of spreading fake
news".
[09:10:00]
CHATTERLEY: The Journal says Russian prosecutors are warning Western companies they will seize assets or arrest any corporate leaders in the
country who decided to stop operating in Russia. Anna Stewart joins me now. Anna, I mean, the ship has already sailed on much of that a lot of American
western companies have said, look, we're going to stop operating.
The two that come to mind that we've discussed many times the likes of Coca-Cola and McDonald's and it follows reporting from last week that the
Russian government had said, look, we may reopen these businesses and operate them themselves.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes, we already had the threat of nationalization. But the report from "The Wall Street Journal" also
suggested that business leaders were being threatened by calls, emails visits with arrest if they criticize the Kremlin.
As you say, that has been flatly denied by the Russian Embassy in D.C., which called the report fake news, a complete work of fiction. They also
had this really interesting line at the end of the statement, which said, even in the most difficult situation, U.S. commercial interests in the
capacious Russian market are not infringed in any way, which I thought was incredibly interesting, because even leaving aside the fact that they're
facing sanctions, obviously, international sanctions, the economy is frankly, in free fall towards a recession.
There's the very obvious fact that actually the Central Bank has implemented strict capital controls that do target foreign businesses, even
if they haven't decided to leave the Russian market. This is not going to do anything for business confidence, which is absolutely shattered. And
that's actually regardless of what happens, I think, in Ukraine, I think that's not returning anytime soon, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's very important. When I saw those headlines from last week, its property rights it's any hope of trust between foreign
governments, foreign businesses, and Russia completely broken. And it was echoed by I believe Russia's richest man who was saying, please don't do
this. It's going to take Russia back 100 years.
STEWART: That was the president of the biggest nickel business in Russia. So a voice that really resonates me said, yes, it will take the country
back more than 100 years. He also said that the global distrust of Russia, on the part of investors would take decades to restore.
And I think it's really important that we keep considering some of the dissent that we have seen from Russian businessmen, from oligarchs, from
people who matter to President Putin and the Kremlin. It builds, for instance, on comments from Mikhail Friedman from Oleg Deripaska both are
now subject to sanctions.
And also actually last week on Russian anti-Russian State TV Channel One in primetime. It was the tonight show whether Vladimir Potanin I believe, and
it was a panel discussion, Julia, where both guests were highly critical, really, of the Kremlin.
Ones that do we need to get into another Afghanistan, but even worse, and the other suggested that actually the opinion of the Russian masses is
changing, which just goes to show that yes, these sanctions are punishing everyone from business leaders to ordinary Russians. But those impacts, you
know, for the actions of their president.
But that impact is biting and it is clearly having some change here in terms of the opinion that the sort of, I guess, the denials, that conflict
we're seeing is coming in dribs and drabs. But it's really important, we highlight it.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And as we've said in the past, you can hide with news media with state owned news media to a greater extent what's taking place
somewhere else but when ordinary people feel the pressures of economic sanctions that are tough to mask Anna Stewart thank you for that.
Russia has requested military and economic assistance from Beijing according to U.S. officials as I already mentioned, this comes as the U.S.
and China hold talks in Rome today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We are communicating directly privately to Beijing, that there will absolutely be consequences
for large scale sanctions, evasion efforts or support to Russia to backfill them. We will not allow that to go forward and allow there to be a lifeline
to Russia from these economic sanctions from any country anywhere in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Both Russia and China are denying the claims. David Culver joins us now David, great to have you with us. It does certainly fit the
narrative, as I was just discussing with Anna there that Russia is coming under increasing pressure. And we know this because we can see it in terms
of financial assets, in particular and behaviors from individuals.
The question is, does China and is China willing to risk secondary sanctions with the West in order to provide economic, perhaps even military
support to Russia?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And those are likely Julia the discussions that were held just a short time ago between China's top foreign diplomat
and that is the official who really has the ear of President Xi Jinping, a key advisor to President Xi, that's - and Jake Sullivan, National Security
Adviser.
So they met in Rome a short time ago. We don't yet know the details of that meeting, but it's very likely that on the agenda, were some of those
discussions as to how Beijing was going to handle the Ukraine crisis? One that they had have been really trying to balance this tightrope act in
between trying to stay neutral trying to portray themselves as peacemaker saying that they could even be mediators between Ukraine and Russia.
[09:15:00]
CULVER: And then on the other side they have been trying to say that they still have this no limits relationship between Russia and themselves. And
so this is a very difficult, challenging situation for them to try to navigate here, and one that could be even more treacherous, should they try
to align themselves with Russia through military and economic aid?
Now, as you point out, both sides have denied that those are U.S. officials who have said that they believe Russia has asked Beijing for its
assistance, both Beijing and Moscow saying that is not true. Those are the U.S. officials peddling lies disinformation, as the foreign ministry here
in China has portrayed it.
But it does raise the question, how will Beijing act in the coming days and weeks? They're at a point now where they may have to take a stance here.
They may have to align themselves with Russia and in doing so do they then feel the brunt of more sanctions and economic hurt here, that could cause
even greater problems.
However, at the same time, in doing so, President Xi would ideologically aligned himself with President Putin and kind of create this East versus
West alliance that may in fact, take shape? Or the alternative is does China say, nope, we're going to discuss with the West and the EU and U.S.
in particular, the two largest trading partners that China deals with.
And try to figure out a way to defuse the situation in Ukraine; try to save some face with Russia, their northern neighbors, and then move on looking
perhaps from a PR perspective, pretty good from all of this that may be the route that Chinese officials are going to try to go.
But Julia, it is a very challenging one at this point to try to navigate and figure out where their next move is going to be? I think it seems most
analysts you talked to that they're at a point now where they're going to have to take some action.
CHATTERLEY: It's funny; I've compared Russia and China to David and Goliath, in terms of their economic size, and scale and weight in the
world. But you could also do that with Russia and the West with the United States in Europe and the cost and consequences for China of alienating a
far larger area of the world in economic terms, if nothing else.
David, very quickly, the backdrop here is also incredibly difficult for China, with what they're seeing in terms of COVID cases rising 17 million
people, I believe in Shenzhen. Now, right, under some form of lockdown, it's an uncomfortable time to be making the wrong choice.
CULVER: Yes, and a comfortable time for many of the people here within China too. You look at those numbers, compare them to the rest of the
world, they almost seem laughable, however, here in China with a zero COVID approach. It's something they're determined to stick to.
But you're right. This does play into that because if they want to go forward, and President Xi wants to help his best friend, his description,
not mine, President Putin, then in doing so could cause more issues economically here at home. And that's combined with the COVID situation so
these lockdowns causing issues, for example, in Shenzhen, just across the border from Hong Kong, a place where Apple supplier Foxconn has had to shut
down their factories.
So economic impact being felt there or go to the industrial hub, Julian Province they're experiencing lockdowns of tens of millions likewise,
having to bring businesses to a halt. It's constant here. It's unpredictable. It's the uncertainty. And that's something that's playing
out along-side all of what's happening with Ukraine.
So it's something that the Chinese leadership has to keep in mind, because remember, Julia, one of their biggest pushes, is trying to maintain
prosperity for all if that starts to be deteriorating in any manner that could cause social stability to likewise falter.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the level of the COVID cases is laughably small, but the economic and social consequences of keeping it so vast.
CULVER: That's right.
CHATTERLEY: David Culver, thank you. Stay with "First Move" more to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to CNN. The Bank of International Settlements has suspended Russia's membership saying its move is in line with international
sanctions on Russia in Ukraine. Meanwhile, the Central Bank is channeling money into the country's defense and getting help where it's needed. So
far, it's taken in donations worth over $400 million from all over the world for Ukraine's Armed Forces, including the National Guard and the
Ministry of Defense.
And it's asking that Russian assets frozen by foreign governments be given to Ukraine to help it rebuild. Deputy Governor of the National Bank of
Ukraine Sergiy Nikolaychuk joins us now Sergiy, fantastic to have you on the show. First and foremost, may I ask how you're doing, how you and your
family doing?
SERGIY NIKOLAYCHUK, DEPUTY GOVERNOR, NATIONAL BANK OF UKRAINE: Thank you very much. So my family and I personally are relatively safe, as far as
it's possible nowadays in Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Good to know sir. I want to talk about the immediate pressures the financial sector, what are you seeing just in terms of use cash points,
pressure on the banks? Do they have enough liquidity?
NIKOLAYCHUK: Thanks very much for this question. So far, we do our best to ensure the proper functioning of the payments in Ukraine and also try to
safeguard financial stability as much as possible in the current environment.
Definitely, our measures implemented so they include also providing the cash to the banking system. And in order to - in order to help our people
to receive the cash and to do their payments.
More or less the situation is stable in the regions where we don't have very active military hostilities, but definitely we expect experienced some
problems with in the regions there that there were a lot of military hostilities, where it's very difficult for banks to ensure ATMs for
example, are completely full of cash.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's very difficult in parts of east of the country in particular, you're saying simply to, to get cash out there. What is the
option for people in those parts where the challenges are, are incredibly great in terms of the risk of being injured, if you go out?
NIKOLAYCHUK: Well, first of all we promote the cashless payments. So actually, both in the regions where there are a lot of foreign military
hostilities and in regions where the risk relatedly safe now, also we promote using the pay carts for people who are fleeing to neighboring
countries. From our point of view, it's much safer way to use their savings in order to spend for their needs.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. You've announced a number of support measures too to support the military in particular and to provide humanitarian aid.
[09:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: And I know you issued what we call war bonds in order to finance it. How quickly can you get that money to people?
NIKOLAYCHUK: First of all, if we talk about the accounts which we opened in the first day of war. So for military purposes and for humanitarian aid, so
we almost immediately transferred the money collected to the Ministry of Defense, or to the special military forces or to the Ministry of Social
Policy in order to transfer them for their purposes.
And actually, this process is very smooth. And once again, I would like to call everyone to support Ukrainian army and Ukrainian people so all
requisites and different ways of payment are available on our web page, on the webpage of our Central Bank.
And also, if we talk about the other measures to support the Ukrainian government, Ukrainian people, so what we do as the Central Bank so in these
circumstances, which started to purchase the war bonds. We do it in very limited amounts, in order to safeguard financial price stability in the
country.
So far, we see - so far, we do our best to combine all this, all these tasks. Again support the Ukrainian army, Ukrainian people, but at the same
time, safeguarding financial and price stability. But in order to make this process actually sustainable, definitely we need the external support.
We do we work very closely now with our official partners with the international financial institutions. And actually this, this work brings
already some results. But definitely, we need a much more.
CHATTERLEY: So you're saying that that people can make donations via a website, as you've said, you've done these war bonds, but in very limited
supply, and I know it was one year maturity, and that the cost of that the interest rate 11 percent.
So it's incredibly expensive to do that, which I think people need to understand. And you also said you've received or will receive international
financial support to the tune of a $15 billion. It's OK.
It's tough to get a sense of the spending the money that you had the money that's coming in that the timing of that, how long can you survive with
what's going on, and keep providing money and maintaining stability? I know it's tough to see how long the conflict lasts. But how long can you
maintain the economy the country under this pressure?
NIKOLAYCHUK: Definitely yes, I understand the pressure is the normal at the same time, and normal - our efforts, efforts of the Ukrainian army of the
Ukrainian people. And definitely in the Central Bank, we also try to do our best in order to ensure their financial stability in our country, on the
one hand, and on the other hand, we tried to do as much harm as it's possible for Russian financial system in order to increase the cost and
lower their financial potential to finance this war.
Actually, for that purpose, we work a lot we communicate a lot with our different - our partners in order to - in order to - the possibilities of
Russia to finance.
CHATTERLEY: Sergiy, the Governor of the Central Bank suggested that the assets that have been taken from Russian oligarchs that have been seized
around the world, and the reserves that have been frozen should be given to Ukraine to help rebuild, when and if that can be done do you agree with
that?
And have you had any discussions with foreign leaders who have suggested that might be possible?
NIKOLAYCHUK: You know our current priority is to survive. Definitely we need the financial support for this purpose, first of all, but definitely
when Russian invaders will be - left Ukrainian land. We will have the massive financial needs in order to restore - rebuild the infrastructure,
rebuild the buildings, recover the Ukrainian economy.
[09:30:00]
NIKOLAYCHUK: And definitely we will need to find some financing sources for them as Governor mentioned sold the assets of Russian oligarchs, assets of
the Russian Central Bank look like, quite reasonable, I will say yes, hours of financing for this purpose is taken into account, taken into account the
reason of this, all this damage done in Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Sergiy very quickly, you know, better than most, the impact of sanctions, what capital controls the damage that's being wrought in the
Russian economy? What more do you want to see because I know President Zelenskyy spoke to President Biden over the weekend and asked for more.
What more do you want to see the West do in order to curtail Russian economic activity and pressure Vladimir Putin?
CHATTERLEY: Thank you very much. First of all, I should say that a lot has been done already. And what we now do, actually, we tried to find some
loopholes. How Russia may wish Russia may try to use in order to continue financing this military invasion of Ukraine.
Just recently as an example - so for example, we welcome the decision of the payment systems like Visa and MasterCard, to freeze all operation with
Russian cards abroad and with cards issued by foreign banks in Russia and so on.
But at the same time, for example, there is still possibility for Russian people to use cards issued by the Russian payment system - in some
countries, and we approach these countries that are actually eight countries in order to suspend these operations.
Also, for example, we asked the Chinese Union Pay to take measures similar to ones taken by Visa and MasterCard and stop servicing corporations with
these payment cards issued by banks in the Russian Federation.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the message is out there. Sergiy, great to chat to you sir thank you so much and we pray you stay safe you and your family. The Deputy
Governor of the National Bank of Ukraine will speak again. Thank you. We're back after this stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! A reminder of our top story from Ukraine; homes in the Capital Kyiv have become the latest target of Russian shelling. One
person was killed and six were hurt when an apartment block came under fire. A search and rescue operation is currently underway.
The devastation in Ukraine is leaving essential medicines in short supply too. The U.S. humanitarian organization "Direct Relief" is one of the
world's largest distributors of donated medical supplies. It's working with Ukraine's Health Ministry and partners on the ground to deliver medical
emergency supplies everything from insulin syringes to painkillers.
And joining us now is Thomas Tighe he's the CEO of Direct Relief, Thomas, thank you for making time. I know you and your team is incredibly busy at
this moment, you were already working with Ukraine, I believe, delivering COVID related medicines and some specialist cancer treatments. And then of
course, the requirements shifted dramatically.
THOMAS TIGHE, PRESIDENT & CEO, DIRECT RELIEF: Right. Now, I think fortunately, that that backbone was already built for the communication and
logistics and approved by the ministry, which unfortunately is now needed more than ever. So that's what we've been trying to work through and
mobilize both from the states from our distribution center in Netherlands.
And over the past week, increasingly, from the global manufacturers we work with who had inventories in Ukraine that had been released to directly by
donation. We've been able to have those placed in hospitals, in and around the country.
CHATTERLEY: I was looking at the list of some of the items that you're providing toner keys, blood supplies, medication that prevents the
breakdown of blood clots in case anyone was under any illusions at this stage of what the Ukrainians are now dealing with.
TIGHE: Right. I think our main concern, just in general, when there's this big disruption that causes mass evacuations anywhere, is that those people
with chronic illness that are being managed well, when they get disconnected and flee what's a well-managed condition can become an acute
crisis, if unmanaged.
And that is insulin for people with diabetes, it's inhalers for people with asthma, it's anti-hypertensive for people who have cardiovascular issues.
So that all shifted that was a principal concern, but when civilian population became active targets for war, I think the level of trauma has
increased.
So that clearly shifted about eight or nine days ago, when that's the priority to get the wound care trauma kits. And you know they've had to
move ICU patients who were in the ICU for COVID out so they could take care of the war injured. So I think it's really shifting every day and getting
worse, tragically.
But you know, I think we have a pipeline that's built, both from Europe, within the country and from the States, and people have been very
responsive. So, you know, we've been able to provide 52 tons of medical material in the first 14 days, and are going to do everything we possibly
can obviously, as this tragedy unfolds.
CHATTERLEY: We've often been talking about the humanitarian corridors and the challenge of keeping people safe in there. It's perhaps one thing
getting the supplies into Ukraine. But when you've got refugees shifting further and further west, you've got the concerns, I'm sure of your own
people trying to keep them safe in order to distribute these medications.
How are you managing that risk, particularly if we're talking about Lviv coming under fire, and certainly a high concentration of refugees in that
city now that then perhaps have to push on to some of the border nations?
TIGHE: Right, I think we're in touch this week with all of the Ministries of Health of all the bordering countries. I think right now the priority is
on Ukraine, working with the ministry, they do have adequate in country transportation, although that's changing every day.
They're secure warehouses, and I think we're trying very hard to keep everything. Prescription drugs have to be kept in a closed supply chain.
And there are a lot of rules around that for good reason.
So I think that's been the priority even though we're moving fast to try to do it is as controlled away as possible with Ukrainian health authorities
who've put us in touch overnight, in fact, with the Kharkiv City Council, the medical department of the City of Kharkiv and asked us to respond
directly that they would help with the in country logistics.
[09:40:00]
TIGHE: So I think it's relatively straightforward to get it to the border. There are trains and bonded vehicles that can take it to the border so the
custody of the goods can be handed over to the Polish authorities
And we've also worked with some of the Ukrainian NGOs, one in particular that we've worked with for six or seven years, and they have picked up
material at the border. They've gotten it in, but it's a high degree of risk and getting worse every day.
But you know they're taking time to send photos and give us reports. So it's, the reporters are all over, they know, it's so shifting, but I think
we're looking really narrowly at what the medical distribution channels are, which go on the same roads and rails.
But, you know, when they become the targets for military, powerful military, you know, it changes day to day.
CHATTERLEY: Thank goodness, you had the route set up, as you said that you were already working there. So at least you had some understanding of, of
what you were dealing with in the geography of the country as well. How worried are you by infectious diseases?
I mentioned last week on the show, my viewers will know that I believe the vaccination rate even just for COVID is 39 percent in Ukraine. It's an
additional complicating factor surely, particularly when you've got again, masses of people in in certain locations and at times access to basic
sanitation compromised too.
TIGHE: Right. I think there are a number of infectious diseases, there was a small concerning polio outbreak in November, December, the COVID,
vaccination was low, and they were in the midst of their spike. There were a lot of - there was multi drug resistant TB that doctors without borders,
and others have worked on for years.
So that, you know, mass evacuations in crowded conditions are the worst conditions imaginable to prevent the spread of infectious disease. So I
think right now, though, when there's an act of war, we have therapies for that.
We received quantity of the oral COVID therapies, which are helpful for people who come down with it. But I think right now, the priority really is
on the trauma, the wound care, the safe evacuation of people. But also people are undergoing cancer care; they're delivering babies that are they
just delivered.
So the level of people who are vulnerable, everyone's vulnerable in a war, but it's identifiable who is particularly vulnerable from their pre-
existing state. So I think it's kind of trying to cover all the bases at once. And thankfully, we do have a distribution center in Netherlands, it's
a 14 hour drive to the border, there are substantial quantities of things like insulin that are moving right now.
But we're trying to work with the World Health Organization, and others who probably have a more a fuller field view than direct leaf does, because
we're really focused on the medical distribution channels, and fulfilling specific orders as soon as we get them.
CHATTERLEY: I'm amazed how quickly you operate in this kind of environment? I mentioned in the introduction, it's based on donations, the medical
supplies; the medication is donated to you. For those that are watching how can they help? Do you need specific things from pharmaceuticals? Is it
government based? What do you need at this moment?
TIGHE: Well, it's directly has always been privately funded, just because it gives us more flexibility to act fast. But we act fast but within all
the controls that come along with handling prescription drugs, which are heavily regulated in every country in the world.
So I think that's the balance we're trying to make. We have good relations with the large healthcare companies in the world. The financial support
goes to offset the cost of transport and distribution, basically. And so far, we're OK to roll as much as we can with what we've got.
But it's it mushrooming. It's expanding, profoundly every day. So we've never seen anything like this in 72 years. You think of Haiti or some of
these other events, this is a completely different environment, millions of people who've had their lives have up ended, and it's already a Pan
European effect.
So I think we're trying to anticipate where the pressures in the health system that direct relief can help out with will be felt in all the
bordering countries, Poland has stepped up in a massively impressive way. And we're trying to help make sure that they don't have to shoulder
everything, even with private support to help the Polish agencies that are trying to manage the massive inflow, keep the material secure, and then
arrange with Ukrainian authorities.
How to make that as smooth and coherent as it possibly can be, because you can't really abandon the controls when you have a lot of prescription and
very specialized medications for the people who are undergoing cancer care, for example.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I think that was the line. We've not seen anything like this in 72 years. Thomas Tighe there the CEO of Direct Relief thank you for
everything you and your team are doing. We appreciate you.
TIGHE: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Coming up in just a minute, the Founder and CEO of Ukrainian Tech Company, Matt Paul tells us what he's doing to help his
country and why he's staying?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:45:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! The world has been deeply moved by the fierce resistance Ukrainians have shown under attack. And our next guest is one of
them. Oleksandr Kosovan and Founder MacPaw in Kyiv in 2008. It makes apps that optimize computer performance and they used by 30 million customers.
Now it's joining Ukraine's resistance efforts providing free VPN to Ukrainians and fighting Russian misinformation as well as funneling money
to people in need. Oleksandr Kosovan, the CEO and Founder of MacPaw joins us now from Kyiv, Ukraine. Alexander, good to have you on the show! You
actually decided to remain in Kyiv?
OLEKSANDR KOSOVAN, CEO & FOUNDER, MACPAW: Yes. Hi, everyone. Yes, it was my choice and to be here in Kyiv.
CHATTERLEY: And how safe are you? How safe do you feel?
KOSOVAN: Well, relatively safe for now. But it seems like the Russians are trying to get into the city. There are some fights going on. And just a few
miles away from the city entrance from both sides of the city. So it's very close now.
CHATTERLEY: It's a brave choice. You're doing your best to defend the nation. And you're I was gonna call it weapon of choice, but it's not. It's
a weapon of necessity is information technology. Talk to me about the efforts that you're making to fight. What you're saying is Russian
misinformation. And it's been widely reported, I think around the world.
KOSOVAN: Yes. So we are using all the resources that we have. We have a lot of bright minds and individuals in the company. And we are trying to create
some ads, try to create some articles and spread it across the Russian population as much as possible in order to show them the truth and what is
really happening in Ukraine?
Because unfortunately, most of the Russians do not see what is really happening. They are - they are overblown by this Russian propaganda, which
says there are no casualties everything is fine. And it will test pass on.
So unfortunately, we have to open their - we have to try to open their eyes and show that this is not OK. And this will have major effects on both
Russians and Ukrainians.
CHATTERLEY: There are videos that are flooding the internet of what's being called crisis actors. So its people that look like they've been injured in
an attack and then the people get up and laugh often smile and pat each other on the back like they're faking it.
[09:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: And the suggestion is the videos that people are seeing in Russia aren't real that they're done by crisis actors. How do you fight
that kind of misinformation, Oleksandr? And do you believe if actually the Russians saw the truth perhaps they'd protest more? They do me.
KOSOVAN: Well, we already see some protests starting in Russia. Unfortunately, there are not a massive enough; there is not enough people
on the streets in order to be impactful. So we cannot fight directly this misinformation and fakes because Russia controls their information,
delivery very tightly.
And unfortunately, right now, they have already blocked Facebook, Instagram, and many other sources of information that we use in order to
break through this Russian firewall. So unfortunately, right now, we are very limited in the instruments, how we can get through that.
CHATTERLEY: What do you think is the best way to stop this Oleksandr the conflict?
KOSOVAN: Well, Ukrainians are short on hold the world that we are holding strong. We have a really, really strong army. And we are not going to give
up. So everyone from each military to every citizens of Ukraine is showing as a resistance to a Russian invasion.
I think it's very hard to win in this situation. So it will take some time and definitely enormous pressure from the west from the other countries on
the Russian economy, in order for this war to stop. At the moment, the weakest point that we have is air defense.
Unfortunately, many Russian missiles are heating cities all over the country, even in the four locations like Lviv, Donetsk et cetera. Many of
the missiles that get intercepted by our anti-air defense system, but unfortunately, not all of them and we see all this destructions and
casualties among civilians, and children and hospitals, everything.
So they're on purpose, they are targeting the civilian objects in order to create chaos here and to create as much fear as possible. But it's not
working, unfortunately. But I mean, it's not working but unfortunately, they are destroying all of these objects. And it's creating a human
humanitarian crisis already in Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: I know you were monitoring the U.S. intelligence that was warning that this was coming. And I think a lot of people didn't believe it
in the country and outside of the country, but you did automate your business you made changes so that could continue to operate.
You also got your family out. I'm going full circle now on the conversation. How is your family doing? And how hard is it for them and you
to be separated and for them to see that you're still there?
KOSOVAN: Well, it was definitely a very hard choice. It was very hard to explain my wife and kids why I'm staying here. But I'm glad that we had
this time to make this decision and to prepare for the war because we did a lot of preparation, both for business and families, many families in order
to get well prepared for what could be happening.
Of course, we never imagined how it would be happening in the real world because, well, we never thought that this scenario will happen. So we never
thought how our feelings will unleash because it's this - this is something you cannot predict unless you feel it.
But yet we are well prepared. We have enough food. We have a lot of medicine prepared. We have business operational, and this gives us some
additional urge to fight back.
CHATTERLEY: Oleksandr Kosovan, the CEO of MacPaw, thank you for joining us there. Stay with us more to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:55:00]
CHATTERLEY: A smile amid the devastation emotional scenes that the Ukrainian border with Poland has as separated families fleeing Russia's
invasion are reunited. Family members holding each other in long tearful hugs as they face the uncertainty of a new life and a new country now
beginning this next chapter together, but we united. That's it for the show. Stay with CNN for continued coverage of war in Ukraine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
