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First Move with Julia Chatterley
NATO Secretary General: Murdering Civilians is a War Crime; Zelenskyy Wars Deaths Likely Higher in Other Freed Cities; Ukraine Warns Atrocities are Worse in Other Cities; Ukrainian Refugees Met by Volunteers in Poland; Clearview AI Offers its Technology to Ukraine for Free; Polish Schools Welcome Ukrainian Children Fleeing War. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired April 05, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: You're watching CNN. I'm Julia Chatterley in New York and we begin with the latest from Ukraine. There
have been more appalling discoveries found in Kyiv suburb of Bucha, and a growing number of world leaders accused Russian forces of committing war
crimes. Please be warned of disturbing images ahead.
In a basement, CNN teams witnessed the removal of five victims, who appear to have been tortured and then executed according to a Ukrainian official.
CNN cannot independently verify those claims. But as the number of confirmed deaths in Bucha exceeds 300 President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is
warning we've not yet seen the worst.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: There is already information that the number of victims of the occupiers may be even higher in - and some
other liberated cities. In many villages of the liberated districts of the Kyiv, Chernihiv and Sumi regions, the occupiers did things that the locals
had not seen even during the Nazi occupation 80 years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: President Zelenskyy is also now casting doubt on talks with President Putin, accusing him of committing genocide in Ukraine. In the
next hour he is expected to address the UN Security Council for the first time since the invasion began 41 days ago.
Russia, a permanent member of the Council continues to claim the videos from Bucha a fake yet satellite imagery suggests otherwise. You can see
that there are areas in this March 18th satellite image that match the locations of victims seen in the video.
The international outrage gathers pace with EU Finance Ministers meeting today to discuss more sanctions on Russia, including a phase out of coal
imports, the EU also announcing a joint investigation with Ukraine into alleged Russian war crimes and crimes against humanity and in the last
hour, more condemnation coming from the NATO Secretary General.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: This is unbearable brutality that Europe has not witnessed in many decades. Targeting and murdering civilians
is a war crime. All the facts must be established and all those responsible for these atrocities must be brought to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: More now from CNN's Fred Pleitgen in Bucha. And another warning you're about to see disturbing graphic images showing what the Russian
troops left behind.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ukrainian authorities in Bucha lead us into a basement they call a Russian
execution chamber. It's a gruesome scene five bodies, their hands tied behind their backs shot. The bullet casings collected by Ukrainian police
pock marks from bullets in the walls.
The Ukrainian say these men were killed when Russian forces used this compound as a military base while occupying Bucha an advisor to Ukraine's
Interior Minister not even trying to conceal his anger. After the liberation of Bucha five corpses of civilians were found here he says with
their hands tied behind their backs.
They were shot in the head and in the chest. They were tortured before. Even the body collectors find it hard to keep their composure - is usually
a painter. Now he collects the dead left behind after Russian forces retreated from Bucha.
This is not what we learned in school, he says. Do you see my hands hundreds, hundreds of dead hundreds, not dozens? But the Kremlin has denied
Russia was behind any atrocities in Bucha.
PLEITGEN (on camera): Now the Russian say the notion of their troops having killed civilians is all fake news and propaganda. But it does seem clear
that they were here that looks like a sort of foxhole position. And over there they seem to have dug in a tank.
PLEITGEN (voice over): On the outer wall the letter V a symbol that Russian forces painted on their vehicles before invading this part of Ukraine. Now
a lot of Russian military hardware lies destroyed in the streets of Bucha and other towns around Kyiv, as the Ukrainians made a stand and prevented
Vladimir Putin's army from entering the capital city.
Images published shortly after Russian forces left Bucha show many corpses lying in the streets. Some bodies had their hands tied behind their backs.
President Biden calls why a war crime happened here.
[09:05:00]
PLEITGEN (voice over): While visiting Bucha Ukraine's President vowed to bring those behind the violence against civilians to justice. These are war
crimes he says, and they will be recognized by the world as genocide. You are here and you can see what happened.
We know that thousands of people were killed and tortured; limbs raped women and kill children. And still the dead keep piling up. Many lay in
this mass grave behind the main church in Bucha. Local authorities tell us around 150 people are buried here but no one knows the exact number and
here too the scenes are tragic.
Vladimir has been searching for his younger brother Dmitry now he's convinced Dmitry lays here, even though he can't be 100 percent sure. The
neighbor accompanying him has strong words for the Russians.
Why do you hate Ukraine so much she says? Since the 1930s you've been abusing Ukraine. You just wanted to destroy us. You wanted us gone, but we
will be everything will be OK. I believe it.
But more corpses are already on the way at the end of the day we meet - and the body collectors again. Another nine bodies found in this tour alone.
And it's unlikely there'll be the last. Fred Pleitgen, CNN Bucha Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Echoing President Zelenskyy Ukraine's Deputy Prime Minister told my colleague Brianna Keilar, the civilian casualties could be even
worse in other locations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IRYNA VERESHCHUK, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF UKRAINE: --was also fully occupied for a while and we had no access. We could not see what was
happening there. Therefore, we are inviting journalists, criminal experts, and anybody with relevant experience to come and witness what we will
discover in - because we know that the animals in military uniforms, there's no other way to call them were torturing women and children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Phil Black joins us live now from Lviv. Phil there is dual fear here the first is that - this is just the beginning of the atrocities that
have found us more areas have freed of Russian troops. And the second and very valid fear here is President Zelenskyy suggested that it compromises
the ability to reach some kind of resolution, even a ceasefire.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and perhaps understandably, Julia. Even before the revelations of recent days, there was a very strong feeling
among the Ukrainians. And it points to why the talks were already tense and difficult.
And that's because they strongly believe they've done nothing wrong, that they had been attacked in an unwarranted way to the victims of Russian
aggression, aggression that has resulted in the destruction of cities, the displacement of millions of people, tremendous human suffering.
And so to paraphrase their position they were unwilling to make concessions because why should we reward Russia's bad behavior by giving them some of
our territory. Now add to that very strongly held view the emotions that inevitably come with what Ukrainians have learned about how some of their
fellow citizens were clearly treated while under Russian occupation?
I think you get a sense of that feeling through watching Volodymyr Zelenskyy, walking through Bucha inspecting, seeing some of what the
Russians left behind. And so yes, perhaps no surprise that he would respond to these revelations to what he saw by expressing some doubt about how you
can possibly then negotiate with a partner that he believes was responsible for the murder and mutilation and torture of so many of his fellow
citizens. Take a listen now to some of what Zelenskyy said while he was in Bucha yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: The longer the Russian Federation delays the meetings, the worse it will be for them and for this war, every day when our troops are
liberating occupied territories, you can see what is happening here. It's very difficult to negotiate when you see what they have done here. Every
day we find people in barrels strangled, tortured in the basements. So I think if they have any brains left, they should think faster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: So it's worth remembering that it was only last week that some Ukrainian officials close to the negotiating process was saying real
progress was being made, but on some key sticking points, and they felt that the possibility of a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin was a very
real one.
But today Zelenskyy has said that that feels pretty unlikely unless Russia were to accept full responsibility for the war crimes committed in this
country.
CHATTERLEY: That's the difficulty and the challenge is trying to rescue those that are trapped in some of the worst affected areas continues.
[09:10:00]
CHATTERLEY: I believe there's been another failed attempt to get people out of Mariupol Phil?
BLACK: Yes, so people are leaving Mariupol a few thousand a day mostly when the humanitarian corridors are able to open. But that means there is still
thought to be well, in excess of 100,000 people trapped in this surrounded cut off city that has been under bombardments for well over four weeks now
with little food, water, electricity, and so forth.
And key point is, is that while some people are getting out, nothing is getting in. The International Committee for the Red Cross has been trying
to get in for some days now, with aid and supplies and also escorting in empty buses to get larger numbers of people out.
And once again, they have been prevented from doing so despite what the Ukrainian government says was agreement and assurances from Russian
leadership. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Phil great to have you with us thank you so much for that. OK, coming up, Ukraine says Western sanctions against Putin's Russia are
strong, but not strong enough. I'll speak to an Economic Adviser to President Zelenskyy on how to force Russian concessions at the negotiating
table. That's next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: EU Finance Ministers who've been shocked by the atrocities in Bucha are meeting today to discuss tougher new sanctions against Russia.
The U.S. Treasury also moving to restrict Russia's ability to make debt repayments using cash reserves that have been frozen in U.S. bank accounts.
They have been able to do that so far. That means Russia will have to use the reserves it still has access to a home all the money it gets from
energy payments. John Harwood joins us now. John, this was interesting, very interesting to me when I read the details from the Treasury last
night.
They're basically seemingly forcing Russia to choose either you burn down the reserves that you have remaining in Russia, you use some of the cash
that you're getting from energy repayments, or you default on your international debt. And either way, it restricts some of the money that can
be used for the war effort surely too.
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly and what the United States and the allies need to do, especially as these horrific atrocities
come into focus is cut off financial escape routes for Russia. Clearly that was done at the beginning as sanctions have gradually ramped up sanctions
against larger banks barring access to the Swift payment system.
[09:15:00]
HARWOOD: Freezing the Federal Reserve Bank of Russia from accessing all those dollar reserves they built up. But they had been letting through some
of these debt payments to go using foreign reserves. Now, there is increasing pressure on the allies to do more. This is one of those steps.
It's not the ultimate step, the ultimate step of course, Julia is going to be as you know, cutting off the purchase of Russian oil and gas that has
blowback on Europe. It has blowback on the United States; it has blowback on the world economy. The question is how much longer can they resist that
final step as the pressure mounts to do more against Russia?
CHATTERLEY: They're all great questions. Is the blowback John on the United States itself, too, with the power that they're wielding with the U.S.
dollar. There are, we could call them fair - weather friends all over the world, the Middle East Asia, for example, that are getting a powerful
warning at this moment, perhaps about the need to diversify in the future away from the U.S. dollar.
HARWOOD: Sure, there will be cost. And other countries, we'll figure out paths to avoid the United States for the reason that you mentioned. At the
same time, the United States and allies will figure out ways to get by without some of the commerce that they're blocking off.
Big choices ahead for China as they watch what the United States is doing and the severity of those responses it's notable that in the couple of
weeks since President Biden had that long phone call with President Xi, warning not to assist Russia financially or militarily in the war or face
consequences yourself.
We haven't seen major action on the part of China and so that warning appears, at least for now to have been heated in Beijing.
CHATTERLEY: For now, John Howard, great to have you with us as always, thank you. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the world must
brace for more scenes of horror like those we're seeing from the City of Bucha. Zelenskyy, who witnessed firsthand the atrocities carried out on
innocent civilians in Bucha yesterday, is now questioning whether he can negotiate directly with President Putin who he accuses of genocide.
Bucha has put pressure on the west increased sanctions on Russia too as John was just describing the U.S. Treasury announcing new restrictions on
Russia's ability to service its foreign debt, as John was just saying. EU Finance Ministers meeting today too to consider new energy sanctions on
Russia.
Well, one adviser to the Ukrainian president has singled out major German firms like Buyer, Metro and Hinkle, who was still operating in Russia.
Alexander Rodnyansky is also calling for more sanctions on Russian banks and he joins us now. Alexander, great to have you with us on the show!
We can talk about more sanctions. But I know you've spoken to President Zelenskyy directly about the atrocities in Bucha. And I just wanted to get
more detail from you about the reaction and the complications for potential peace negotiations, too.
ALEXANDER RODNYANSKY, ADVISER TO UKRAINE PRESIDENT: Well, yes, thanks for having me. So that's quite right. Obviously, what's happening in Bucha and
other cities in Ukraine and up and occupied is, you know, as horrible, horrendous and inhumane as it can possibly get.
It certainly complicates our peace talks and any potential negotiations with this regime. But we have to give it a try, as we, you know, as we were
doing before. So let's see what happens. But sanctions on Russia, as you correctly pointed out, have to be increased pressure has to increase. There
is no way the world can forget or ignore what's happening.
CHATTERLEY: You've also said, yourself, Alexander that you believe what we're seeing in cities like Bucha is punishment, Russia's punishment for
their failures to take places like Kyiv?
RODNYANSKY: That's exactly right. So this is not just you know, the psychology of genocide, which has been studied and documented before,
during the Second World War, for example. This is more than that. This is certainly their revenge for defeat, or their failure of capturing Kyiv and
other big cities in the north.
And so that's what that's their nature. They're revealing their true nature by these sorts of acts. They can't obviously get to our military, so
they're taking it all out on our civilians. And that just shows you the true face of what we're dealing with.
CHATTERLEY: You know, the government has said they don't accept Russia, taking any land in future negotiations. And that includes the formal
acceptance of the loss of Crimea to Russia too which obviously the government and the world still recognizes most of the world still
recognizes as Ukrainian. Where does this end, Alexander?
RODNYANSKY: Well, it ends in our victory, but before we reach that point, we have to have maximum support militarily that means giving us all the
weapons that we need at this point.
[09:20:00]
RODNYANSKY: We have more than enough people who are willing to fight against these against this army and these barbarians. But we need the
equipment. That's actually the reverse from what's happening in Russia. They haven't - they having the equipment, but they don't have the morale of
the people who are willing to do anything.
So we need the equipment, we need maximum military support. We need the capabilities to defend our airspace. And we need economic sanctions on this
regime such that it cannot finance the war. We have to bring this war machine to an end to a stop.
And that will happen through crippling sanctions on Russia's regime on their ability to rise financing, to sell oil and gas to Europe, and so on.
CHATTERLEY: And to your point, those discussions about further sanctions do often coalesce around the prospect of Europeans buying oil and gas and the
need to restrict that dramatically. You've said on Twitter that you've openly discussed the prospect of an embargo on Russian oil and attacks on
Russian gas directly with the German government. What was their response?
RODNYANSKY: So yes. We've been speaking to officials in Europe, in Germany in particular, there is obviously hesitancy here in Germany, in terms of
introducing an embargo, you know, in the short run on oil, and gas imports from Russia.
So the solution, there might be a stepwise embargo, where first oil is sanctioned or prohibited in terms of importing to the EU. So that will be
easier because oil is easier to substitute. And it can come from the Middle East, for example, there are ports in the north of Germany. And there's
this infrastructure for transportation and importing.
That's harder to do with gas. And so at least we could introduce or Europe could introduce a stepwise embargo, first oil is prohibited, and then gas
over time. So that's realistic, more realistic than a full scale embargo, unfortunately, and that would already go a long way, in preventing Russian
financing for the war.
CHATTERLEY: And how quickly could that be done Alexandra? And I should explain to my viewers, you were born in Kyiv, but you grew up in Germany,
you're an economist, so you have a strong sense of, of the economics, I would argue of both countries too.
So if we're talking about Germany, specifically, which has such a vulnerability here, because of its requirements of Russian energy supplies,
could that be done very quickly, even if they introduced a cushion, perhaps for lower income people to help support them dealing with the higher energy
costs?
RODNYANSKY: Yes, so that's right. So Germany has made itself very dependent on energy imports from Russia that has been a mistake, a terrible mistake,
policy mistake over the years. But now Germany's in that situation obviously not easy to get out of it but it's possible to do.
As I said, a stepwise embargo starting with oil is feasible, oil is easier to subsidiary. And that could be done relatively soon, gas is a harder
proposition. It's harder to implement, there is no infrastructure for importing gas from you know, other terminals or LNG gas in Germany. There
are no LNG terminals in Germany, actually.
So that's a bit harder to do. But you could already start, for example, taxing gas imports from Russia that will diminish the profits that they're
getting over there and diminish their capabilities to finance the war going forward.
But we're hoping that it's realistic, there are studies that show quite serious scientific, you know, and practical studies now that show that
actually, it's probably not as catastrophic, as many imagining the industry. But of course, there is a lot of lobbying on the part of the
industry, for this not to happen. And we need to be clear about what it is it's lobbying. It's just that.
CHATTERLEY: I was going to ask you that, specifically, actually, whether you think this are a government decision and a cost to consumer and the
politics of that, or it is the power of the industry itself, to prevent further restrictions?
And I'm talking about the oil and gas industry them and I think you're answering the question for me.
RODNYANSKY: That's right. Well, of course, there's, you know, legitimate concerns on the part of the government. And there's, of course, some
uncertainty around these estimates. You can't say precisely what would happen to employment, what would happen to separate industries, but you can
still be relatively sure that this will be manageable.
And all the hysteria around this, to a large extent comes from the industry comes from certain enterprises in Germany, also that fear that they would
have to make adjustments very, very quickly, and that it would be costly for them. But that doesn't mean that it's infeasible.
CHATTERELEY: No and should at least be considered. Alexander clearly, the war continues. But I know you as an economic adviser to the president are
considering the future and rebuilding after this war. And we recently spoke to the finance minister directly and we were talking about the economy
ministries estimates of a $500 billion worth of potential costs.
But he admitted at that time, it could be far greater. Should we be talking about bigger sums than $500 billion perhaps even a trillion dollars double
that and a Marshall Plan of some kind to tackle rebuilding?
[09:25:00]
RODNYANSKY: Absolutely. That's what - that's exactly what we're thinking about.
CHATTERLEY: I think I've lost him there. But interesting to know that a Marshall Plan is being discussed if we can get him back, we will go back to
him. But otherwise, I will thank Alexander Rodnyansky there the Adviser to the Ukrainian President and Assistant Professor of Economics at Cambridge
University.
OK, coming up facial recognition technology not only as a weapon, but as a way of reuniting families with lost ones, no matter whose side they're on.
The CEO of Clearview AI up next, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! A very human response to the humanitarian crisis in Ukraine dozens of volunteers still standing by ready to help the nearly
2.5 million refugees that have now crossed from devastation into safety Salma Abdelaziz joins us now from Poland. Salma I believe you're joined by
someone who's helping out there.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Absolutely, Julia. So I'm right at the pedestrian crossing. And what you have to know is that men are
fighting age are not allowed to leave Ukraine. That means many times the people fleeing are just women and children, just the female members of the
family.
And that means there's an additional layer of vulnerability and one of the volunteers that these women and children might meet first is Ayala.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELAZIZ (on camera): I know you have a few tents that you've set up here to greet women and children particularly. Could you show me what you have
here?
AYALA SMOTRICH, RESCUERS WITHOUT BORDERS: Yes, we have here three tents. We have two clinics one of them is up. And one of them is this green tent.
These clinics contain doctor and nurses 24/7 and we also have this big white tent.
[09:30:00]
SMOTRICH: It's for a woman and children, because I'm here with SSF Organization. And we have been here since the breakout of the war, it's 40
days. When we start here, there is nothing here. So we realize that treat people medically, it's not enough, because they leave the clinic and then
once they have no other place.
ABDELAZIZ (on camera): You want to give more than just medical care. You want to give emotional support, mental support.
SMOTRICH: Yes, we want to give them hope. We want to give them a safe spot for them after everything they've been through.
ABDELAZIZ: And talk to me about the need that you're seeing. There are now 2.5 million refugees in Poland, what is the need that you're seeing?
SMOTRICH: They need, I will answer it in two parts. They need us. They need us to support them to give them a safe spot and hope and hug and hand and
whatever they need. I need help. I need whatever people can give me.
I need money, I need medical supplies, I need medication. I need whatever I can get to keep doing what I'm doing.
ABDELAZIZ (on camera): So you need people to help you help them.
SMOTRICH: Exactly. I couldn't find out better than--
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELZIZ: Thank you so much for explaining all of that. And Julia I mean, we continue to see I'm just going to step over here so that you could just
see people continuing to flow. I mean, this is a constant flow of people that you are seeing coming across the border they have fled with nothing
but what they can carry in their hands that mean they need everything Julia diapers and food and care but also mental support and a future a plan.
Women like Ayala that's what they're here for.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and it's good to see it so organized Salma as well. And even just seeing someone like that with a big smile on their face I think
after all the trauma is something special. You're doing a great job. Thank you for being there Salma Abdelaziz thank you for that.
OK, now the Ukrainian government is now using facial recognition in the war against Russia. The country's vice prime minister sees the technology has
been provided by New York based startup Clearview AI. The partnership came up Clearview's CEO sent a letter to Kyiv offering its tech for free.
The tech could be used to help reunite families in the growing refugee crisis too. Right now Ukraine sees it's being used to identify Russian
soldiers killed during the war and then to inform their families. Clearview says it has collected more than 2 billion images from Russia's social media
network.
The Co-Founder and CEO of Clearview AI Hoan Ton-That joins us now. Hoan, great to have you with us! You're allowing the Ukrainian government I
believe to use your product free of charge, just talk us through the decision to contact them and say, hey, our technology can help.
HOAN TON-THAT, CEO, CLEARVIEW AI: Hi, Julia thanks for having me on your show even though it's a really terrible time. It's a pleasure to be here.
So what happened was one of our advisors and lawyers on advisory board. He was actually meeting with the ambassador to the Ukraine and I was trying to
find a way.
And we were trying to find a way to help in this terrible situation. So we wrote this letter, and somehow it got to the right person, they reached out
to us and we set them up about 21 days ago, 23 days ago with the Clearview AI Facial Recognition Technology.
But the real motivation behind this was just seeing all the images come out and videos of all the horrific crimes that are going on. And we thought
that would be able to help in many ways to help identify and verify people who've been deceased victims of war potential infiltrators. We'll help them
with fighting misinformation, and also with family reunification.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the refugees, of course, if people have got separated I mean, to your point there's, there are many potential uses here. But what
the Ukrainian government said and I mentioned that was that they want to allow Russian families to reclaim loved ones that fought and died in in
Ukraine and perhaps have been left behind. Just explain how it works so our audience understands.
Are you providing training for it for the Ukrainians as well, because I think one of the fears is perhaps that mistakes happen? It's misused. You
know that the criticisms well. Are you providing training?
TON-THAT: Yes, I've been training a lot of them and so has our team on how to use the facial recognition technology to, you know, helped identify and
verify people. So the way it works, it's like a search engine. So it searches over 20 billion public photos from the internet when you upload a
photo to Clearview AI.
[09:35:00]
TON-THAT: And so in that process even a face is off angle or with glasses or with beard and even with facial damage, if they're deceased, still able
to identify a publicly available information, just so happens that we have over 2 billion images from different Russian social networks.
And when I started doing the first demonstration for them in training, they would send me photos through email, I would send it - put them through the
system, and they could find them on - in Russian uniform.
So it's been very helpful for identification and verification of deceased people or even just verifying people at checkpoints. People might not have
identification, or they might have identification anyway, that extra piece of verification can make all the difference.
CHATTERLEY: You mentioned something there, and I don't want to dwell on it. But I think it is quite poignant for some of the images that we've been
showing, and the atrocities that some of CNN supporters have witnessed. And that is, according to the Ukrainians, people that have been tortured, and
then executed. Were you just saying that if there's facial damage, people can still be identified?
TON-THAT: Yes, it is correct. I've seen some of the images, they're horrific. But talking to some of the people in the Ukrainian government who
use our software, they've been able to make multiple identifications.
The latest report I've heard is now 582, you know, deceased people have been identified using facial recognition technology. So in a situation
where you don't have DNA or fingerprints, you can be very, very helpful. So just seeing these images is, you know, really disturbing. But nevertheless,
the technology is able to work regardless and still make identifications.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that's over 500 families who at least have some clarity on where their missing loved ones are, and what's happened to them?
As heartbreaking it is. I think one of the other tools that I've read about it being used for as well as perhaps discrediting stories or accusations of
fake news.
I saw a recent example where Russia suggested that a prisoner of war was actually a Ukrainian nationalist. And this technology was used to say,
look, actually, we can identify this person on social media, and he's not Ukrainian.
TON-THAT: Yes, so there's a lot of, you know, accusations out there saying that, you know, these people are actors, or this isn't really happening.
And it's quite ludicrous but nevertheless, it's you know, they're able to use the technology to identify the real people in the different photos and
debunk it in a very quick and efficient manner.
The other thing is just talking to the Ukrainians every day I'm on Zoom with a different set of people. I training them and talking to them,
they're the bravest motivated people I've seen. I thought initially, I was expecting them to be, you know, a little down, but I've never seen anyone.
So many people are so motivated to fight. So I just want to let you know, say that very impressed, and they're very brave people.
CHATTERLEY: Roll in or if they fight and spirit Hoan. Let's talk about Russia, and Russia, potentially using this technology too and the risk
perhaps of, of state actors, cyber-attacks. How are you protecting against that? And what decisions have you made with regards the Russian Government
also getting access to your technology?
TON-THAT: So we not giving the access to our technology to the Russian government, just in Ukraine. So it's pretty clear to us as a company that
we need to help the Ukrainians in their situations, they're defending themselves, really against an invasion.
And anything we can do to help them there is good. Our technology deployed is a cloud based service. So we have the ability to give access and also
revoke access to different customers. In this case, it's really clear to us and really important to us that they're able to have every tool they can
have to help because they're, you know, outnumbered in some ways, and but again, they're very brave and fighting for the lives.
CHATTERLEY: And Hoan I have to ask, because obviously, you're getting all sorts of pushback from social media companies from tech, big technology
companies about the use of images, you're being criticized over privacy concerns, you're being criticized over, perhaps misidentifying individuals.
Do you think what you're doing here will help change the narrative? Because there will be those that are saying you're being opportunistic and
providing this and getting good PR? So I just want to give you an opportunity to, to respond to that because I know that criticism will come.
TON-THAT: Sure yes, there's nothing optimistic about this. We really care about the situation. I think facial recognition still new technology and
very much misunderstood including Clearview AI.
[09:40:00]
TON-THAT: And we've seen large events like the Capitol riots on January 6th, the FBI could make over 100 identifications of people who stormed the
Capitol, those kinds of events have led people to think differently about the technology. And it really is a safe technology.
There have been no missed identifications, or wrongful arrest due to our technology at all. And it really has surpassed the human eye in terms of
accuracy. So I think, you know, in this Ukrainian situation again, over 582 that's the last number of deceased people that were able to be identified
with the technology.
And I get emails from them, and you know, messages from them every day saying, thank you so much for your support. Thanks for giving us this
technology. And I think that it's just been amazing to see it happen so quickly.
It has been now five government agencies on boarded and trained and uses the hundreds of people in the Ukraine and thousands of searches and plenty
of success stories. So I think the results speak for themselves.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I don't think there's anything wrong with technology. It's the use of technology that can be the problem and if you have a problem
with that use you regulate it.
TON-THAT: Yes, from regulation. You know, this is the best purpose of the technology was to help fight crime. And this is been a great honor to be
able to help them in this terrible situation.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, at this moment from us and from the 582 families so far that know what happened to their loved ones. We thank you for your help
Hoan Ton-That the CEO of Clearview AI thank you. We're back after this stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! Energy volatility back on the front burner across global markets today oil prices are higher and coal is currently up more
than 11 percent as the EU discusses a ban on Russian coal imports just to be clear coal is up more than 130 percent over the past year alone.
Global stock markets as you would expect cautious once again today as NATO Secretary General says the Ukraine war has entered a dangerous new phase.
He says Russia wants to capture the entire Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian government of course saying they won't accept one
inch of territorial loss. U.S. tech stocks currently lower for the first time in three days.
[09:45:00]
CHATTERLEY: Twitter, however, is the exception. The social media giant rallying for a second straight day on - that Elon Musk will take a seat on
the company's board of directors. This after his massive investment in the company was disclosed on Monday's session.
Under the agreement Musk has agreed to by up to no more than 14.9 percent of Twitter while sitting on the board. He currently owns 9.2 percent
according to that filing. Now he says he will work to make what he calls significant improvements to the service.
Alright, let me bring you up to speed with some of the other stories that making headlines around the world. Authorities in Shanghai will continue to
enforce a day's long COVID lockdown even after testing most of the city officials say they still need to review the results conduct a few more
tests and analyze the border situation.
On Monday the city reported more than 13,000 new cases, well China confirmed 16,000 nationwide, both a new daily records. Dozens of Sri Lankan
MPs have left the President's coalition government amid continued mass protests and a mounting economic crisis.
This means the government does not have the necessary votes to pass legislation. Citizens are facing severe food and water shortages, crippling
inflation and power outages. OK, coming up, we're waiting President Zelenskyy's speech to the United Nations Security Council a preview of that
speech up next stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! One way of providing continuity and stability in the lives of refugees, many of whom are children is education. Not easy
when millions of people are flooding into your country. But as Kyung Lah reports, Poland is finding a way to tackle the problem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): To learn the full scope of war take a seat in Ms. Magnus (ph) classroom. She's a Polish teacher using
Google Translate to communicate in Ukrainian with our new foreign students. Her class has grown by 40 percent this month with new children who've just
fled the only home they've ever known.
LAH (on camera): You're translating on the internet as you teach?
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Because I know only Polish language.
LAH (on camera): How important is it for you as a teacher to help these kids?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very important.
LAH (voice over): Primary school 157 with bilingual classes have welcomed every new refugee classes are more cramped. But these public school
students don't complain because they feel they already know the strangers sitting next to them.
[09:50:00]
EDWARD CZYZEWSKI, POLISH STUDENT: Well, a lot of kids have come to our school and some of them have told us stories about the - and they've left
people that they look behind.
LAH (voice over): Edward Czyzewski is 13-years-old, a Polish student seeing the influx of war survivors come through his school doors.
CZYZEWSKI: The more we take him, the better.
LAH (on camera): The better?
CZYZEWSKI: Yes.
LAH (voice over): So you don't mind that the rooms are crowded?
CZYZEWSKI: No. It's for a good cause.
LAH (on camera): So these are all Polish.
LAH (voice over): Eva Rex Grenade (ph) is the Vice Director. She feels for every child in the building and only wishes she could do more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Especially when I see people helping. I don't know. We can help in only a small part.
LAH (voice over): Warsaw's Mayor tells us the strain on his city schools is enormous. The 100,000 additional refugee children in Poland's Capital need
an education. It's an increase of 30 percent just this last month. Nizar (ph) is 13. He's from Kyiv.
LAH (on camera): Your mom is here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
LAH (on camera): Your father?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he stay in Ukraine.
LAH (voice over): Nizar's father is a minister helping fight in the war. It took a week for Nizar to escape Ukraine with his mother. School offers the
structure of a life he's lost.
LAH (on camera): Your favorite subject is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Math.
LAH (on camera): You like math?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
LAH (on camera): Is it easier being around other Ukrainian kids?
LAH (voice over): Yes, he says we can talk them understand. Of the 4 million refugees fleeing Ukraine half are children paying the price of
adult sense.
LAH (on camera): How hard is it for kids your age to live through this?
CZYZEWSKI: I think it's practically impossible to go through this. It's just mind boggling how this could happen to someone that young.
LAH (on camera): The school told us they're not experts in dealing with war trauma, and there just isn't a system yet in place to deal with these kids
who are coming into the school. Despite the strain they say not one single child will be turned away, Kyung Lah, CNN Warsaw Poland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Incredible, they're managing as best they can. Those are the people though that has made it to safety, what of those that are left
behind? NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warning more civilian casualties could be found in other Ukrainian towns after Bucha.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STOLTENBERG: I'm afraid that we will see more that we will see more examples of the killing of civilians, more examples of atrocities and more
examples of targeting killing of civilians which actually are war crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: This as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy set to address the UN Security Council in just a few moments time he visited Bucha
yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: Every day when our troops are liberating occupied territories, you can see what is happening here. It's very difficult to negotiate when
you see what they have done here. Every day we find people in barrels strangled, tortured in the basements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Nic Robertson joins us now. Nic, it's unimaginable. He's accused Vladimir Putin of genocide. We can talk about the UN Security
Council afterwards. But if we're looking towards some kind of peace negotiations, even ceasefire negotiations, how does President Zelenskyy
arguably negotiate with someone he views now as a war crime, a war criminal guilty of genocide?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think what we've seen from President Zelenskyy so far is a practicality of practicality that he
couldn't get Ukraine into NATO and an acceptance of that, a calculation that he was going to have to compromise on his aims for Ukraine in order to
keep NATO as military support the EU's financial support the United States support in all of this.
So he has proven himself to be practical. What he has said about a sort of final peace deal is very clearly that Russian forces must pull back to pre
a February 23rd position that is before Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
I asked the UN - the NATO Secretary General here about that and about NATO's position would they accept if Russian forces remained inside or
beyond those lines of the pre-invasion? His answer gave us I think, a lot of clues as to how Zelenskyy can get to a practical negotiation,
ultimately, with President Putin despite President Putin being accused of war crimes.
[09:55:00]
ROBERTSON: And that is NATO's position continued to give Ukraine the maximum military support that it feels that it can without escalating the
war, to give Zelenskyy the strongest position at the negotiating table.
And I think Zelenskyy's past performance until now has indicated that he is prepared to be practical, but he has set a very high bar and there's no
indication of who can force Putin to pull his troops out of Ukraine. That is very unclear of war crimes charge that sticks may help on paper, but it
may not bring about the kind of peace that actually Zelenskyy really wants.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that's the critical point. Nic Robertson, great to have you with us, as always thank you for that! And that's it for the show
stay with CNN "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
