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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Ukrainians Describe Alleged Abuse During Russian Occupation; NATO Chief Describes "Sham" Referendums in Ukraine; "Sham" Votes Underway in Russian-Occupied Areas in Ukraine; DOW Slides as Recession Fears Mount; UNSGSA: Financial Inclusion also an Issue in Developed Countries; Global Citizen Marks 10 Years of Fighting Poverty. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired September 23, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", this Friday, plenty to get due to before the weekend begins, including a
Russian push to annex more of Ukraine separatist leaders in four occupied regions of Ukraine now holding referenda on becoming part of Russia, the
West calling them Sham votes.
We'll get the take of NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg in just a few moments time, and a Russian Exodus long lines of traffic at the borders and
airports, as citizens rush to leave the country to avoid the Military draft announced earlier this week plus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEEN MAXIMA, THE NETHERLANDS: It's very nice to actually have somebody financial included, but if it's not actually leading to better lives, then
what is the point?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Her Majesty Queen Maxima of the Netherlands joins us later on in the show too to discuss her mission to expand financial inclusion around
the world.
Now in the meantime, Wall Street's set to tumble further take a look at this after a painful week overall for stocks this is going to give you a
look at the snapshot for the week so far, but already down around one and a half percent pre market the DOW down nearly 2.5 percent even heading into
this session.
So that's before we had the potential losses of the day to the NASDAQ and the S&P have also lost around 3 percent. If not more Investors of course
remain on edge after the Federal Reserve indicated this week that they'll continue to raise rates even if it leads to a further slowdown in order to
tame inflation.
And better news across in Asia as well. More losses in Friday session shares in Hong Kong sank even after the government lifted its long standing
international travel quarantine Tokyo, Shanghai and Seoul. All closing in the red as you can see.
All right, lots to get through today and we begin in Ukraine, so called voting is underway in four Russian occupied regions of Ukraine. The
question whether to join Russia, Kyiv and the West are calling the whole process a Sham.
The U.K. Ambassador to Ukraine Melinda Simmons tweeting this morning that the outcome of these "Sham referenda is" almost certainly already decided,
and called the process a media exercise designed to pursue further and illegal invasion by Russia.
The referenda hastily arranged by Russian President Vladimir Putin are taking place in Donetsk and Luhansk and in occupied parts of Kherson and
Zaporizhzhia in the South. Ben Wedeman joins us now. Ben, Good to have you with us it's inappropriate to call this vote really or referenda when the
outcome is over the unknown conclusion. What are the consequences for those living in these regions and what next?
BEN WEDEMAN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the consequences are fairly clear they're going to become Russian citizens and just yesterday,
we were in an area that was under Russian occupation. And you would be very hard pressed Julia to find anybody in those areas, who has the slightest
desire to live under Moscow's thumb.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice over): Anatolly (ph) is trying to make his demolished house a home again, one nail at a time, but without roof plastic sheeting on the
Windows won't make much of a difference. This is all they could salvage. Anatolly is overwhelmed by what he and his wife Svetlana found when they
returned to their village of Prudianka (ph).
What can I say he asks? You can see for yourself. Svetlana was born in this house 53 years ago. Her reaction, pain she says shock, pain, terrible pain
and bitterness. The fruits of life's labor withered on the vine.
WEDEMAN (on camera): This is what happened to many of the towns and villages caught on the front lines in this war. They were totally
destroyed.
WEDEMAN (voice over): Up the road residents unload relief supplies trucked into the town of Kozacha Lopan (ph).
Mayor Vyacheslav Zadorenko (ph) back in his office after months away. He says these armbands were handed out to the workers in the local Russian
installed administration, food provided to collaborators and newspapers. About 100 People were collaborators. He tells me when the Russians left,
most left with them.
Oleksandr from the mayor's office shows us where town residents were brought for interrogation and tortured and dark basement, as many as 30
people to a cell.
[09:05:00]
WEDEMAN (voice over): Prisoners he says we're seated in this chair and subjected to electric shocks. Vadim spent a few days there, he recalls his
interrogators beat him first, and then ask questions.
They beat me on my back, my head, then shoved me on the floor and kicked me, he says. Then they gave me a cigarette and started the interrogation.
They asked me if I was pro Ukrainian. I'm Ukrainian. I said, Of course, I'm pro Ukrainian. He was released, but his son Vladimir was taken by the
Russians. He's still missing.
Vitali draws water from the neighborhood well. He recalls when Russian soldiers asked if he and his wife had any Nazis at home. This is a normal
village he chuckles in the retelling we are farmers and workers. Kozacha Lopan (ph) is the last stop on the train line before the Russian border.
Soldiers took over the railway station.
WEDEMAN (on camera): These are all letters and pictures sent by Russian schoolchildren to the soldiers here at the railway station. That things
like this pictures. And here's a letter from Alexander in the fifth grade, who says you are heroes. Thank you for guaranteeing our safe future.
WEDEMAN (voice over): Misguided discarded messages of support for a disastrous war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: Regarding the ongoing sham referendum those for Ukrainian regions that we are seeing on social media, for instance, that in some areas,
people too ballot voting officials and two armed men are going basically from door to door with a ballot box.
Now the Ukrainian government has called upon residents of the occupied territories not to vote they say if strangers come to your door, don't
answer it. It appears that for instance, in some polling stations, there are no voting booths. You have to mark your paper right in front of the
officials in one in the Donetsk region.
The ballot is only in the Russian language because the head of the local administration has already decided that Russian is the state language,
Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Ben Wedeman, thank you so much for that report there. OK, let's move on to Russia now. Many Russians not welcoming the announced partial
military mobilization videos on social media showed tearful goodbyes between conscripts and their families. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy now
urging Russians to protest against the move some people simply getting out of the country to avoid being called up demand for flights out of Russia,
has soared as Ivan Watson reports.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Today, since Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization trying to press some 300,000 men
into service to go fight in Ukraine.
We haven't seen parades of Russian patriots waving flags, volunteering to go fight. Instead, we're seeing long lines at Russia's borders with
neighboring countries and playing tickets for flights out of Russia completely sold out with the prices skyrocketing. It is clear that some men
are voting with their feet trying to dodge this draft before they can be pressed into this deadly war in Ukraine.
The government of Kazakhstan, for example, says that vehicular traffic at its border crossings with Russia have surged some 20 percent since Putin's
partial mobilization announcement was made on Wednesday. The border crossing to Georgia is being described by travelers it's taking some 12, 13
hours to cross that border into Georgia. CNN spoke with 129-year old Russian man who arrived by bus in Tbilisi, the Georgian Capital, and he
said he didn't agree with the war, half of his family was Ukrainian. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to discover the world. And this situation with Ukraine and Russia it's - I don't believe that in 22-century, you need to
fight with someone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: The Russian men CNN has been talking to do not want to be identified. They don't want to get in trouble. For example, there's one man
who describes himself as a reservist in the Russian Military who fled by train to the capital of Belarus to Minsk. And he told CNN, I don't support
the war. I don't support what's going on. I just decided I have to leave right away.
[09:10:00]
WATSON: And we're anecdotally hearing about other Russian men reaching out trying to find avenues to escape, which again suggests that there are
problems when it comes to popular support for putting one's life on the line to fight in the trenches and the battlefields of Ukraine for the
Kremlin's war. Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.
CHATTERLEY: OK, let's move on the British pound slumping European stocks under pressure after the United Kingdom announced sweeping tax cuts and a
huge increase in spending and borrowing. The new government says the move will jumpstart growth as the nation grapples with a spiraling cost of
living crisis.
Anna Stewart joins me now. Anna, this was being talked about as a mini budget. It's absolutely eye popping if spending and slashing taxes is the
way to galvanize growth. And I think the U.K. has got it nailed. The question is and Investors are asking this, how are they going to pay for
it?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes, that is the big question. And it is laughable that this was being trailed by the British media and the mini
budget is mega, it's probably the most ambitious fiscal plan that I've ever reported on. I would describe it as a go for broke as much as go for growth
plan. A big gambles, essentially. And we can bring you some of the basic highlights and measures you'll see from this, many of them are tax cuts.
And actually many of those will be targeted at higher earners, for instance, abolishing the highest rate of income tax, removing the cap on
bankers, bonuses, you can only imagine the rules from the opposition benches in Parliament when it came to this, but also a big one is that
energy bills will be subsidized. We knew this.
But let me show you what this cost it comes at a mega will cost. According to the Treasury tax cuts alone will cost 45 billion pounds by 2027. And the
energy freeze, it's going to cost 60 billion pounds over the next six months. Already the U.K. is debt management office have up their plan bond
sales for this fiscal year by 62 billion pounds.
And because this was a fiscal statement, let's get really technically it wasn't called a budget, at least by the government. That is because the
Office of Budget Responsibility hasn't had a preview of this. So they have yet to give their assessment on what the economic and fiscal impact of this
mega plan will be.
CHATTERLEY: It's been required after Brexit that the message from this is we're open for business we're fertile ground for investment, but it's a
tough pill to swallow for those that are struggling with it with the cost of living crisis at this moment. And I'd call it go for broke or go broke
trying quite frankly. Your point about it being a gamble I think he's very true. Perhaps that's what's required at this moment in time. What's the
response been, Anna?
STEWART: The response, well, first of all, look at the markets the pound, not particularly happy today and a fresh multi decade low. I know we say
that a lot, but it's yet another one and looking at U.K. bonds.
So the gilts much higher on expectation, of course of mega borrowing from the government also, I think an expectation here, of course, that you could
have an even more aggressive response from the Bank of England come November for the next rate hike.
And actually it was interesting looking at the gilt market reaction this morning, the director of the Institute of Fiscal Studies, and economic
research body and independent ones simply tweeted, this is worrying and they see government spending by their estimate based on what they've had
today, as nearly doubling for this fiscal year and over doubling for the next.
And there are huge concerns, of course, that this sort of borrowing right now looking at the economic picture is unsustainable. I will end on a
positive note. The Confederation of business industry said it is not perfect. It is just the beginning. But there is plenty business can work
with they like, of course, less taxation and less red tape for businesses.
Similar from the Institute of directors, they say it's a good news day for British business, but they do sound the note of caution like many people
today, that until the Office of Budget Responsibility have gone through it and given their assessment. Lots of people are sort of holding out in terms
of what they think Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, good for business as long as it's not considered fiscally and entirely irresponsible and that creates a whole new layer of challenges
for the country. We shall see Anna Stewart, thank you very much for that.
OK, straight ahead Sham referendums, and an outcry from the west we speak to the NATO Secretary General about the situation in Ukraine and beyond
after the break. Plus, I sit down with Her Majesty Queen Maxima of the Netherlands to talk about her mission to promote financial inclusion around
the world our conversation coming up later on in the show stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" as we discussed earlier in the show, so called voting is underway in full Russian occupied regions of
Ukraine. On the question of whether to join Russia the process is taking place in Donetsk and Luhansk and in occupied parts of Kherson and
Zaporizhzhia in the South.
People in this war torn regions are being asked if they want to join the Russian Federation, the so called Election Commission has been appointed to
oversee the vote Kyiv and the West are calling the process a Sham. And that includes NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg who said this week the
election does not have legitimacy, and will only make the situation worse.
And I'm pleased to say NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg joins us now. Secretary General, thank you for joining us on the show. As you said, you
see these as a Sham vote and will only escalate the situation. What comes next? I think the fear here is that it leads to a situation or claims by
Russia as it's now Russian territory being attacked by the West by Ukraine and by NATO weaponry.
JENS STOLTENBERG, SECRETARY GENERAL, NATO: Yes, that's exactly what we need to be prepared for that Russia will use this Sham votes to further escalate
the war in Ukraine. So it is this combination of the votes in four regions of Ukraine, combined with a partial mobilization that represents a serious
escalation of the conflict. But these votes have no legitimacy. And of course, they don't change anything. This continues to be a war of
aggression by Russia against the Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: What's the message to Ukrainian citizens that are living in these regions if they are under pressure to vote?
STOLTENBERG: I support of course, a message from President Zelenskyy that they should not take part in these referendums, because these are
referendums which have been organized, also within two, three days in a war zone. And they will be manipulated and they will not be fair and un-free.
They serve one purpose and that is to give President Putin Russia some excuses for even more violence, even more use of weapons against the
sovereign, independent nation Ukraine.
Our answer NATO's answer is to step up support. The best way to end this war is to strengthen the Ukrainians on the battlefield further, so they can
at some stage sit down and reach a solution, which is acceptable for Ukraine and preserves Ukraine as a sovereign independent nation in Europe.
CHATTERLEY: In the meantime, President Putin appears to be heading in the opposite direction he suggested he was mobilizing 300,000 further troops
this week, can you quantify what that will translate too in terms of actual operational troops on the battlefield, particularly in light of the
limitations be it equipment, be it the logistics?
[09:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Have you any sense of what it's actually going to mean on the battlefields?
STOLTENBERG: This is a further escalation, but it will take time and her wish not. The numbers that are using from the Russian side are not
reliable. But of course, by partially mobilizing their armed forces there, after some time, they will be more Russian troops available.
So this will cause more deaths, more damage, more suffering, in Ukraine, among Ukrainians, but also for Russia, and therefore there are protests
against this in Russia. And again, the answer is that these kinds of aggressive action by a big power Russia against a smaller neighbor is
unacceptable.
And therefore, NATO Allies partners have provided unprecedented support to Ukraine over the last few months, and we will continue to do so. I met with
the Ukrainian Foreign Minister yesterday. And of course, that was my message to him as it was to President Zelenskyy when I'm talking to him
earlier.
CHATTERLEY: It's not just about protests during Russia, the anecdotal evidence is that people are trying to leave by whatever means they can
flights crossing borders, in vehicles. What's NATO's assessment of what we're seeing? And I know it's difficult, but do you see the beginnings of a
rebellion by the Russian people.
STOLTENBERG: Wars are by nature unpredictable, and the consequence also in Russia is hard to predict. Of course, things may happen there, we see more
open protests, we see people speaking out against the war. And I think that's extremely important.
We know how difficult that is in the country, we actually risk long sentences just for criticizing the war. But at the same time, we need to be
prepared for the long term. So therefore, we're not only providing more support to Ukraine, but we also ramping up production, so we can produce
more weapons, more ammunition to continue our support to Ukraine for long haul.
CHATTERLEY: President Putin also discussed once again, the potential use of nuclear weapons. Has anything changed in recent weeks in Russia's
preparedness, and its operational capabilities for the use of nuclear weapons? Is it a credible threat in your mind?
STOLTENBERG: We have not seen any changes in the Russian nuclear posture or readiness. But of course, this kind of nuclear rhetoric is reckless and
dangerous. And what President Putin is trying is to deter the Ukrainians from continuing to fight, to defend their own country.
And President Putin drives by using these nuclear threats to deter us, NATO allies and partners, from continuing to provide support to Ukraine. And
this is dangerous, and we should never give in to these kinds of nuclear blackmailing, because then President Putin and other authoritarian leaders
will see that nuclear threats will enable aggressive actions against the neighbors, and that will make the world even more dangerous.
CHATTERLEY: Secretary General, you've made that clear on many occasions, is President Putin being privately warned, whether by yourself, whether by the
leaders of other NATO member nations not to use nuclear weapons? Is he being privately warned?
STOLTENBERG: We have communicated and he needs to know, because this has been stated clearly, again, and again, that any use of nuclear weapons in
Ukraine would totally change the nature of that conflict. Russia knows that a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought. And it will have
severe consequences for Russia. This has been communicated to them. And then we continue to send that very clear message to Moscow.
CHATTERLEY: I think the rest of the world and it's one of the big questions out there is that how would need to respond in that situation? And you've
never made it clear. I think it's very difficult for anybody to make it clear. Have the consequences been made clear to President Putin?
STOLTENBERG: They know that there will be severe consequences, then I will not elaborate exactly at one, how we will react that depends a bit on what
kind of weapons of mass destruction they may use. We are sending these messages and we're making this case to prevent that from happening. And the
thing is that for the likelihood of any use of nuclear weapons is still or is still low, but the potential consequences are so big.
[09:25:00]
STOLTENBERG: So therefore, we have to take this series and the rhetoric that threats that President Putin are putting forward actually, again and
again increase tensions are dangerous and are reckless.
CHATTERLEY: And Secretary General, could I bring it forward to the meetings that you've had this week. And I know you met with the Chinese Foreign
Secretary. And they seem to be, at least on the surface of tone shift after the meetings between President Putin and President Xi in Uzbekistan last
week. Criticism perhaps from the Chinese, even the Indians, I'll add them into the equation here, too. Is your sense from either of those nations
that they're prepared to be and push for a solution here? Push Russia towards the solution here.
STOLTENBERG: So far, China has not condemned the brutal invasion of Ukraine, they didn't vote in favor of that resolution in the U.N. General
Assembly. So I just offered the invasion, so my main message to China yesterday to the Chinese Foreign Minister was that China should use its
significant influence in Moscow to end Russia's senseless war in Ukraine.
And also see in the closer partnership between Russia and China, we saw the joint statement between President Xi and President Putin just before the
invasion, where China for the first time actually addressed NATO enlargement and called on NATO to stop enlargement.
So our ancestors, of course, everyone seven nation in Europe has the right to choose some path, including whether they would like to be a member of
the alliance, NATO or not, and therefore we welcome Finland and Sweden as our new members.
CHATTERLEY: You knew better than most of us that what China says, and what China do can often be two very separate things. But I think reading between
the lines of what you're saying is we are no further a closer to having China, even privately putting pressure on Russia to end this war. Is that
correct?
STOLTENBERG: We haven't seen the clear messages from China that we are calling for, but we will continue to engage with China. China is a growing
economic and military power. We don't regard China as an adversary. But of course, we are concerned when we see the strong Military buildup and the
closer ties with Russia.
CHATTERLEY: And I find a question, Secretary General, and I do thank you for your time. Much of the discussion this week at the United Nations has
been about spillover effects, inflation, food price crises; the challenge is for ordinary citizens wherever they are in the world beyond the pain and
suffering of the citizens of Ukraine at this moment.
Is there any doubt in your mind that the NATO nations can continue to hold together in the face of domestic challenges of political pressure? And
we've already seen it with government changes in Italy and the United Kingdom for example. Can they to hold together, however bad the
consequences?
STOLTENBERG: Yes, we have demonstrated that not only words, but actually indeed, what NATO allies have done and partners have done is to the imposed
sanctions on Russia and sanctions at the scale and the scope we haven't seen before. And allies continue to provide unprecedented military economic
financial support to Ukraine, because this is about Ukraine, but it's also about our own security if President Putin wins in Ukraine that will make us
more vulnerable.
And the message will be that by use of force, he can achieve his goals. Of course, we are approaching winter, and that will be a hard winter with high
energy prices, high inflation, and we are paying a price. But the price we are paying in NATO is a price we can measure in currency in money in
dollars and euros while the price the Ukrainians are paying is measured in lives, lives lost every day.
So yes, it is hard. Yes, we pay a price. But the alternative to let Putin win, then we used to pay a much, much higher price, and therefore we need
to continue to support Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: Every citizen needs to remember the relative costs and the price being paid. Secretary General, thank you so much for your time. The
NATO Secretary General there Jens Stoltenberg sir thank you, once again. We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". U.S. stocks are opening sharply lower as anticipated on this Friday as the peanut fueled by the Federal
Reserve continues. The DOW Jones are dropping below the 30,000 level as you can see they're off by more than 1 percent at the start of the session.
Wall Street on track for the fifth decline in the last six weeks, shares of FedEx falling after the firm announced it will raise shipping rates by
nearly 7 percent. That's inflation in action. And Boeing stock also sinking after agreeing to pay $200 million for misleading the public about the
safety of the 737 Max.
To pull this all together for us, Rahel Solomon joins us now. Rahel, these are not irrational moves to me. And it goes right back to the conversation
you and I were having yesterday about the sheer uncertainty about the future.
RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely right. And what you're seeing this morning is yet another powerful punch, as you pointed out the DOW
looking at least right now to fall below 30,000.
If in fact it closes below 30,000 Julia that would be the first time since mid-June, June remember when we were talking about the lows of the year. So
that is really interesting.
But Julia, this comes in a week where we have heard from practically 12 central banks, it has been an incredibly active week on the central bank
front, including right here in the U.S. with the Federal Reserve announcing that it has decided to raise interest rates, another three quarters of 1
percent.
As you and I have talked about Julia that is not something we have seen in modern history. It has to go back to the early 80s. To see the last time
the Federal Reserve raise rates at that magnitude and at that pace.
And it wasn't just the rate hikes that have clearly spooked Investors. It was the projections what the Fed sees coming just right around the corner
there right. U.S. GDP for the year projections now just eking out any positive growth at 0.2 percent. I think the last projection Julia was 1.7,
the last time we got a projection in June.
U.S. unemployment that is expected to raise from the current 3.7 to 4.4, so that is saying a lot. Now all of these leading Investors to feel while a
recession are feeling pretty evident, right. It's feeling pretty inevitable to that.
Jay Powell, the Chairman saying no one knows whether this process will lead to a recession. So it really is a big mystery not just here in terms of how
we get out of this here in the U.S. but many economies around the world.
But if there is one thing for sure, we know investors don't like its uncertainty. And you're seeing that reflected in the market right now.
[09:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, there's nothing comfortable about a central bank hiking into an economic slowdown, and we're seeing it happen all over the world.
And there's no balancing force except governments and their spent-up. Rahel Solomon, thank you.
OK, coming up after the break, Her Majesty Queen Maxima of the Netherlands has been seeing for herself how the digital economy is making life better
for those who need it most. We'll hear about Her Majesty's work, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". And for now moving beyond the debate around Russia, Ukraine and the spillover effects of the United
Nations General Assembly and to another subject that I feel very passionately about.
And that's progress on financial inclusion, and improving in financial literacy around the world. This has been the mission of the United Nations
Secretary General's special advocate for inclusive finance for over a decade.
Her Majesty Queen Maxima of the Netherlands is a proponent for universal access to affordable, effective and safe financial services and how to get
there. And while the pandemic has left our clouds over many economies, perhaps one of the Silver Linings has been a dramatic rise in digital
payments and greater access to basics like bank accounts, as we discussed.
MAXIMA: Well, first of all, thank you for having us and not me in particular, but for the whole issue on the subject of financial inclusion,
which is really so important for so many people around the world, even here in the United States.
So when I started my job around 2011, we were actually having something like 50 percent of the world population was financially included. What do
we mean by that they actually have an access to having a bank account in which they can get payments, make savings, borrow invest in opportunities,
get an insurance in case there's a risk.
But that was not possible for many, many people, as you know. And now the last figures actually show 76 percent. So in 10 years, we actually got
quarter the world population to actually have access to financial services and actually more and more use them. So this is really a big success,
extremely happy.
CHATTERLEY: It was track resilience, and the number of people that actually in an emergency can't get access to financial resources within a 30 day
window. And I believe its 55 percent; around 55 percent of people are still struggling in certain parts of the world.
And that's a problem even. If you have the financial tools if you don't have the financial resources, you can't access them.
[09:40:00]
MAXIMA: Yes. So financial inclusion is a means to an end is not an end in itself. So in the end of the day, you don't become better by being
financially included. What you want is a financial health, that actually, through these tools, people can actually have better ways of actually being
able to afford the day to day expenses they actually have and responsibilities, being able to invest in the future, being able to affront
a shock, when you know, something like climate change happens or you know, your husband dies.
And you know, you have to sort of, you know, some three years until you get a job, being able to have some savings, to be able to clean up pay for the
food of your kids in the school of your kids, and not having financial stress, which is also a very big issue.
So these four points are actually very important than the financial health perspective. And yes, we have been trying to track that, you know,
recently. And we're going to continue to track them to see and monitor how that actually develops.
And what are the types of products and services that we have to develop going forward to help these four issues. Because it's very nice to actually
have somebody financial included, but it is not actually leading to better lives, then, what is the point?
CHATTERLEY: I've been watching very closely some of the work that you've been doing in Senegal, and it was, I believe, female farmers, a product
called MyAgro. And to your point that the challenge of managing things like climate change at a time when you're also trying to manage finances, higher
fertilizer prices, talk to me about some of those female farmers that you've met.
MAXIMA: So you know, first of all, I was so happy to be there because in the end of the day, I've been through so much work you know, during COVID.
But it was all through - zoom.
And you do not really get the feeling of it, I'm finally seeing the clients because that's the reason I'm actually doing all this work for. And the
many examples I saw, but one of them yes, was this MyAgro.
And basically, these women can actually sort of do little investments, savings through their mobile phones, which is I'm only allowed to do it
through the mobile phones.
And by the way, by the time they actually get some investment, the savings, they can actually invest in better seeds, better irrigation, therefore the
yields go up, the income goes up.
And if there's a drought or too much rain, they know how to deal with it. So extremely important for these women that actually are, you known, 50
percent, they are the smaller farmers in Africa and this type of issues of financial inclusion.
And this whole resilience and our financial growth are so important, because if we look at the farmers in Africa, we need to increase the yield,
that's where the poor people are.
But not only that, if we want if Africa wants to be less import dependent, they will have to invest in the farmers all over. You know, what we've
actually seen with the war and the imports and basically dependence on imported actually had for food, well, we need to invest in the African food
production.
And that means not only is poor farmers, the whole value chain needs to be digitized. The whole value chain needs to be in a system in which you know
you can actually assure that actually the whole system becomes much more productive. And that is investing, also financial inclusion, and insurance
and ways of actually access to markets. And that's what digitization has a fantastic opportunity.
CHATTERLEY: Right. Another example, in the Ivory Coast, I know you were there looking at cashew nut farmers as well, and having a platform where
they can track exports and understand what their business looks like to. To the same point, it's all about building resilience. And it's actually you
go in there and meeting these people and understanding exactly what they need.
MAXIMA: Yes and showing examples to leaders and private sector that you know, these systems can work. And what a potential it actually has, you do
have to invest in distribution, how is a different mindset?
But how do I actually get everybody and given the right inputs, so that I can actually give them the right access to market. So the whole value chain
is actually, you know, being much stronger.
And you know, at the end of the day, increasing the livelihoods of these people and the same time macro economically, really help the countries as
well.
CHATTERLEY: While we're in and while I have you in the United States, as you were pointing out, and as I'm very aware as well, I think we have 40
percent of Americans that couldn't write a $500 check coming into the pandemic.
So when you talk about financial literacy, financial health, we can emphasize the point that this is not just a developing market issue. It's a
developed market issue too.
MAXIMA: Absolutely, I mean, we know that OECD respondents, 50 percent said they had no money left at the end of the month. So this is a very big
issue. Even in the Netherlands, you know, we have, you know, this is before the whole inflation started 600,000 house you know, problematic debts and
1.4 million households in institutional stress in some way.
This is going to become only sort of worse with inflation. So we really need to look at this point. So we are working, at least in the Netherlands.
We are working in not only how to help them budget and you know, getting out of debt, and also getting out the taboos because it takes five years
for a family in the Netherlands to actually ask for help when they're in a situation of debt.
Five years because they think they can do it together, they don't want to be dependent, they want to be independent. And so it takes them five years.
[09:45:00]
MAXIMA: And it's a pity, because had they actually asked for help before the amount of debt would have been much less. So we're trying to do these
things in --.
CHATTERLEY: It is a very difficult moment. Geopolitically, it's a difficult moment for individuals, as you mentioned, within the inflation crisis and
the challenges too. Are there reasons for hope, though, based on what we were discussing about the efforts that have been made and the individual
stories that you've seen?
MAXIMA: Well, I think that the digital part has actually given a lot of people a lot of empowerment, getting access to information, getting access
to services. But then we have to make sure that this is actually in a sustainable, safe and competitive way.
What do I mean by that? So one thing that I've been fighting for the digital public goods you don't have connectivity, then the poor people are
not going to have sort of access to, either have an ID and a digital ID, they can't open an account.
CHATTERLEY: Right.
MAXIMA: If we don't have interoperable payment systems is not going to be a competitive system that really is going to help them. It wouldn't have
cyber security issues that you know, may actually fall into, you know, losing their money.
If we don't have some kind of digital literacy, which I also find is part of the Digital Public goods, people are not going to be able to really reap
all the benefits from the digitization.
So we need to have a better focus on the digital public goods in every country and infrastructure that needs to be in place, so that people really
this big opportunity that's being given by digital life and infrastructure that we can actually reap the benefits and everybody reap the benefits.
CHATTERLEY: So you're just getting started. That's the message.
MAXIMA: No, I think a lot of work needs to be done. And I think that is very important that we actually talk about these issues.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I agree. Queen Maxima, thank you so much.
MAXIMA: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. And that's Queen Maxima of the Netherlands there. OK, up next the two city concert for change Metallica, Mariah Carey and
Scalzi, just some of the stars joining forces with Global Citizen to fight poverty and more. We speak to the CEO of Global Citizen, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". A global citizen aims to eradicate extreme poverty by 2030. The international advocacy platform says
it's distributed over $41 billion and impacted more than 1 billion lives over the past 10 years.
This year alone it says it secured 18 million vaccine doses and mobilized over $10 billion in pledges to support Ukraine and those who fled the
country. That is a lot to celebrate, which is why the organization marks its 10th anniversary tomorrow with a festival across two major cities.
Fans in New York Central Park and Black Star Square in Accra, Ghana will be able to see stars including Mariah Carey Stormzy and Metallica to name just
a few. The aim is to raise awareness of causes including education for girls and debt relief.
[09:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Joining us now Hugh Evans, Co-Founder and CEO of Global Citizen. Hugh, fantastic to have you on the show! Needless to say, I'm very
excited about what's going on. Just in a nutshell, explain the ethos behind Global Citizen and the importance of Two Cities this time around.
HUGH EVANS, CO-FOUNDER & CEO, GLOBAL CITIZEN: Well, firstly, thank you so much, Julia, for having me on your show this morning. Really Global Citizen
is the world's largest movement of citizens taking action to end extreme poverty and tackle climate change within our lifetime.
And this year, marks our 10th anniversary. So we're bringing Global Citizen simultaneously to Accra, Ghana, in West Africa and also New York City to
coincide with the UN General Assembly meeting with the world's greatest artists united to end extreme poverty.
But the thing that makes Global Citizen unique is that you don't buy a ticket to global citizen, your actions are your currency. And so we're
inviting people all around the world to download the Global Citizen app, and use your actions to call on world leaders to make multibillion dollar
pledges for the eradication of extreme poverty within our lifetime.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to ask you that. What does it take actually to be a global citizen? You've, you've partially answered that. What does it
actually mean?
Because to your point, we often discuss these issues, whether it's, it's climate change, whether it's debt relief, to allow some of the poorest
nations in the world to afford things to effectively pivot their economies to tackle things like mitigate climate change. But we don't often see the
solutions in practice. What does it take to be a global citizen? And what also I think makes you unique as you're targeted on the solutions, not just
the talk?
EVANS: Absolutely, yes. So firstly, for me, being a global citizen means that you're not just a member of your individual state or your individual
tribe or your nation, but you're a member of the human race, and you're willing to act on that belief to tackle the world's greatest challenges.
And I think right now, we've seen it when it relates to say, the COVID 19 pandemic, or the war in Ukraine, or the global economic downturn, that all
of these issues affect the entire globe at once.
So while we like to think that we might be able to, you know, erect bigger walls, it's just simply not the case in the modern economy. We need to
embrace the fact that we're all interconnected and address these issues collectively, because climate change doesn't know any boundaries, it's not
going to respect any of your false boundaries.
And so we want to encourage people to actually address these issues collectively. And like you said, Julia, we're focused on the solutions. And
I think the example of climate change is a great one, because, you know, we're seeing some nations around the world stepping up and addressing the
challenges of climate change and fulfilling their promises under the Paris Climate Change accord.
Whereas here in the United States, while the U.S. has reentered Paris Climate Change accord, they're yet to follow through on their $11 billion
per year commitment to actually help the poorest nations adapt to the devastating effects of climate change.
And so we need to address these issues collectively. That's why we need every nation to step up. And one other good example is the UK government
right now. We need Liz Truss, the new Prime Minister to step up and support the Global Fund to fight HIV AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis.
This is another disease that affects everyone around the world. And we need the prime minister step up and support the Global Funds replenishment
because many other nations like Canada and the European Commission have stepped up and increase their pledges by 30 percent. And we need the UK to
do the same.
CHATTERLEY: OK. I mean, you're in New York, all of these leaders; they were here at the United Nations General Assembly. Did you manage to speak to
these people? Were you pushing them? What was your sense of going beyond the talk and the promises and actually taking action?
What's your sense walking away from these meetings? Are you more enthused? Are you; are you fearful about a lack of leadership? Let's be honest.
EVANS: It's a great question. I think that, you know, it really is a mixed bag. I spent time with Prime Minister Trudeau a few nights ago and with
President Von der Leyen of the European Commission, and I was impressed with how they were stepping up to support the Global Fund.
Both of them increase their pledges to combat HIV AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis. But I also saw some leaders that seem completely tone deaf,
to the reality of what the challenges the world is facing.
They seem to be focused just on military might not on using soft power and diplomacy to actually address these issues head on. And I think that when
it comes to international development, you can't turn your back on the fact that, you know, many people don't want to flee their home nations and
become refugees.
They're often forced into these situations. So unless we address these issues collectively, I saw some leaders that really were focused just on
military might enlist trust to speech.
She focused just on military power. I thought that was a massive missed opportunity for the UK government.
[09:55:00]
CHATTERLEY: I was going to ask you to name name here anybody else? I guess Liz Truss is in a situation where she's trying to sort of plan her place as
a brand new leader in a country. But I agree with you.
There is a huge war in Ukraine going on and there are huge spillover effects that everybody's facing. But many of these problems a food crisis,
climate crisis were there before and they'll be thereafter.
EVANS: Yes. And I think in that instance, Julia, I think that, you know, David Cameron, really, under the former conservative leadership in Britain,
put forward 0.7 percent of gross national income as the bastion of how much the UK should give because British people are very generous people.
And they want to be leaders on the global stage. And they have been historically, and then under Boris Johnson, obviously, he walked that back
and went down to 0.5. And I think Liz Truss has an opportunity, as you just said, to assert leadership in her own right and not be bound by what other
leaders have done.
But actually say, you know, what, Britain can be a global part of the global community, we can play a really important role. And I think that's
going to require, yes, it needs to be absolutely.
CHATTERLEY: I've been told to, I've been told to wrap. We'll reconvene on this. I tell you what the British people and a lot of people do like to
party. And there's going to be people there not only celebrating, of course in inaccurate and New York City this weekend, but to your point also just
focusing on being a better Global Citizen and we all need to do that, I think.
EVANS: Absolutely.
CHATTERLEY: Hugh, good luck. Hopefully I'll see you tomorrow. Co-Founder and CEO of Global Citizen thank you, Hugh! And that's it for the show.
"Connect the World" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
