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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Biden: I have been Considering the 14th Amendment; Ukraine Claims Successful Counterattack near Bakhmut; Foreign Minister: Japan in Talks to Open NATO Liaison Office; Nikola Focuses on Hydrogen Trucks in North America; Tech & Education Leaders Launch "Teach AI" Initiative; "Buddy Holly" Wins Westminster Dog Show. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired May 10, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: A warm welcome to "First Move", great to be back in the Big Apple with you for a truly Empire State size building show
this hour, including E. Jean Carroll speaking out Donald Trump's accuser talking to CNN this past hour, one day after the Former President's loss in
court.
A New York jury is finding Trump liable for sexual assault and more, Carroll saying she feels vindicated, Trump's team saying he will appeal.
The very latest just ahead plus, debt ceiling dismay. You talk set for Friday after negotiations between President Biden and Republican leadership
Tuesday went nowhere fast.
Where is the urgency? Will be discussing and from low expectations to inflation revelations, fresh U.S. inflation data saying the cooling
continues. But of course not fast enough for consumer prices rising 4.9 percent year over year last month that are down from 5 percent in March and
does represents the 10th straight month of soft inflation.
Core inflation also coming slightly lower year over year too, but of course the progress is still frustratingly slow. The big question for markets is
the price right for a Federal Reserve pause. U.S. futures higher and European markets are all relatively unchanged after that, data stock
investors taking the data and the debt ceiling debacle in their stride.
Bond investors though seemingly more alert yields on short term U.S. debt are significantly higher, as investors demand heftier yields or return to
compensate them for the higher risk. President Biden saying he has considered other avenues for raising the debt ceiling, including a way to
use the constitution to bypass Congress. But of course, even that has risks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I have been considering the 14th amendment. And a man I have enormous respect for Larry Tribe who
advise me for a long time thinks that it would be legitimate but the problem is it would have to be litigated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Well, no one knows more about the inner workings of DC. Then Greg Valliere Chief U.S. Policy Strategist at AGF Investments, he's back
with his debt dismay, debt debacle. Greg, whatever you call it, Tuesday's White House, the meeting was that depressing. Where is the urgency to fix
this?
GREG VALLIERE, CHIEF U.S. POLICY STRATEGIST AT AGF INVESTMENTS: You make a good point, Julia, nice to see you. I think that you have some urgency in
the treasury bill market, as you point out yields have gone higher, but the stock market has not reacted at all. I think the stock market feels that
this will be resolved. But I wouldn't be too sanguine. I think this is this could take a while we're nowhere close to a deal yet.
CHATTERLEY: How important is the President in these negotiations? Can they make a difference? I go back to the debt debacle that we saw over 10 years
ago. And I do feel like President Obama, at least on the surface looked like he was engaged in finding a solution. It's the goes back to the sort
of relative calm and I don't understand why.
VALLIERE: It's a fair point. I think that one of the things that's going to emerge in the next week or so has a major issue is social security checks.
America's seniors get their check in early June, if those checks don't go out. If there's in default and checks don't go out for a month or two.
There'll be uproar in this country. I think both parties would have to worry about a tremendous pushback, if senior citizens don't get their
checks.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, the broader belief, perhaps as this is just posturing, and to your point that there will be a solution found, but President Biden
is slipping in the polls. In fact, you could call it that he's having a shocker. Does he get blamed more to your point, if those social security
checks don't go out as a result of these negotiations or lack of negotiations?
VALLIERE: It'll probably be a pox on both your houses with both parties blame for this, but you make a good point about Biden's job numbers.
They've been terrible. They've been heading straight down. And with the American public still very nervous about inflation, despite a fairly good
number today, I do think that Biden has to worry that this could drive his job approval rating even lower.
CHATTERLEY: I do love how we're calling a number that's two times plus the inflation target, sort of a modest improvement on these inflation readings.
Greg, is it enough? I guess that's the question now for the Federal Reserve to say look, we indicated a pause and we can continue to do so with these
numbers because they're coming down but its slow progress.
[09:05:00]
VALLIERE: But its progress, Julia and I do think that there's one other big development that the Fed has to be concerned about and that's increasing
signs of a recession or even a depression in the commercial real estate industry. The commercial real estate market is flat on its back and a lot
of big American cities.
And if this continues, I think the Fed would have to worry about contagion about this affecting the banks and other lenders who are tied so closely to
that industry.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, you've written about that this week, and are voicing clear alarm. The Federal Reserve, clearly very aware of this too.
VALLIERE: Absolutely, and I think that's enough to get them to pause. The one thing I really disagree with in terms of market sentiment is this
belief that by mid to late fall, we'll be having rate cuts. I think that's way too premature. You know, maybe by Christmas time, they'll be talking
about a cut.
But the idea that we could get two or three rate reductions in the next two or three months to me is not justified
CHATTERLEY: Yes, to give Jerome Powell his due on this, he was very clear about the idea that they're not going to be cutting rates later on this
year. Even if he was that's less clear in couching the idea of a pause Greg, great to have you as always. Thank you so much for that. Greg
Valliere, Chief, U.S. Policy Strategist at AGF Investments.
Now former U.S. President Donald Trump found liable for sexually abusing and defaming the writer E. Jean Carroll. This was a civil lawsuit. Just
remember, these were not criminal charges. That a federal jury, although ordering Trump to pay Carroll $5 million in damages. He called the verdict,
a disgrace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't even know who this woman is. I have no idea who she is, where she came from. This is another scam. It's a
political witch hunt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, E. Jean Carroll was on CNN "This Morning", just a short while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
E. JEAN CARROLL, WON SEXUAL ABUSE AND DEFAMATION CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP: The old view of the perfect victim was a woman who always screamed, a woman
who immediately reported, a woman whose life is supposed to fold up, and she's never supposed to experience happiness again. That was just shut down
with this verdict. The death of the perfect victim has happened now. This verdict is for all women. This is not really about me. It's for every
single woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And we will hear from the Former President Donald Trump live and in person later today. Be sure to tune in for CNN's Town Hall with the
2020 Ford Republican Presidential candidate. It'll be moderated by CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins and it all starts at 8 pm Eastern in New Hampshire.
That's Thursday 8 am in Hong Kong.
OK, let's move on at least four Palestinians have been killed in Israeli airstrikes. That's according to the Health Ministry in Gaza. The airstrikes
come as more than 60 rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza. According to the Israel Defense Forces, they say the Israeli Iron Dome has
intercepted around 10 of them.
It comes after Israel carried out airstrikes against what it says where Islamic Jihad targets in Gaza for a second day. Elliott Gotkine joins us
live now from Jerusalem. Elliot, what more can you tells us, and I think the obvious question to be if they've Iron Dome is intercepted 10 of them?
What about the rest?
ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Julia, yes, Iron Dome did intersect most of the rockets today including one that was fired towards Tel Aviv where siren
sounded and people had to rush to bomb shelters. And there are continued strikes going on in the Gaza strip from Israel and also rockets continuing
to be fired by militants from the Gaza Strip towards Israel.
Especially at the communities surrounding the Gaza Strip where schools have been closed and where people have been ordered to remain in bomb shelters
until further notice. Now, Israel's Chief IDF Spokesperson Daniel Hagari, in a briefing with journalists said that Israel is being very measured in
his targeting saying it's only targeting Islamic Jihad militants.
And those that is planning or is currently involved in attacks in imminent attacks against Israel, including just recently Israeli strikes on mortar
launches that it says that it's carried out. Now, Israel says that Hamas the much larger and more powerful militant group that of course, runs the
Gaza Strip is not involved in the current round of violence.
But Hamas itself has said otherwise and I suppose the wildcard here is Julia, what happens if the IDF determines that yes, Hamas is being involved
here? Well, this leads to an escalation of the conflict with Israel targeting Hamas targets and Hamas retaliated with this much bigger and more
powerful arsenal towards Israeli targets.
[09:10:00]
As far as back to your question Julia, the other rockets some rockets which are fired when Israel determines that they're not going to be a damaging or
hitting infrastructure or endangering people's lives, for example, if they're due to fall into the ocean, then it allows them just to do so.
But certainly, with the exception of a house in Sderot, which is the main town just next to the Gaza Strip, where a house was hit and damaged. There
haven't been reports of major damages anywhere in Israel and no casualties so far. But of course, this is a very fluid situation. And I don't think
anyone is expecting this to be over anytime soon, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: --when you're raising important questions about the risk of escalation. Elliot, good to have you with us thank you so much for that.
Elliott Gotkine, there in Jerusalem. OK, on to political turmoil in Pakistan, Former Prime Minister Imran Khan now indicted on corruption
charge.
His supporters have been clashing with security forces since his arrest on Tuesday. This video shows a radio station burning after protesters stormed
the building. Meanwhile, calm claims he was tortured and beaten while in detention overnight. Ivan Watson joins us now. Ivan, want more information
do we have about the state of his health and whether or not he's had access to his lawyers, because that was certainly the question earlier today?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It sure was and what we're hearing about his claims that he was tortured and beaten overnight is
coming from. One of his lawyers who met with him during this special court appearance at the headquarters of the police in the capitol Islamabad that
took place today.
And that lawyers says that Imran Khan had bruises on his head that he said in court that he had been beaten overnight moved from the headquarters of
the National accountability Bureau, the anti-corruption watchdog that issued the initial arrest warrant under which he was seized with a huge
number of paramilitary ranger forces on Tuesday to such dramatic effect.
And he was moved to the police headquarters at 3 o'clock in the morning where this special appearance took place. He's not really been seen in
public and the police have made it clear. That's what they want.
They want him not to be able to communicate with his supporters who have been out protesting in many cases violently in different cities around the
country such that the two provincial governments and the government in Islamabad have called on the military to step in to help restore order in
Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province and in Punjab province.
And again in the capital Islamabad there have been deaths reported at least three killed today reported by one hospital in that around shower. At least
one person was reported killed there yesterday that a CNN reporter witnessed that protester shot dead by police while charging at police.
In a crowd of demonstrators we've seen the radio Pakistan building in the shower torched on Wednesday. The residents of the most senior military
commander in the Eastern City of Lahore, his residents looted and torched on Tuesday, the government official is openly accusing Imran Khan's party
of fomenting violence and is threatening consequences. Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AHSAN IQBAL, PAKISTANI MINISTER FOR PLANNING: BTI leadership who are part of the provocation incitement and violence, which was seen yesterday across
the country. Obviously, they will be held accountable and if there are cases against them for inciting violence, police will arrest them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: And that official has gone on Julia, to deny accusations coming from Imran Khan Supporters that claim that the arrest is politicized the
charges of corruption against him are politicized. Instead, Imran Khan Supporters are saying that this was abduction by the security forces.
That rule of law is being suspended by the Pakistani government and the security forces. So you have two very divergent narratives here. And in
cases, they're being battled out in the streets of different Pakistani cities, even as the authorities are succeeding at least over the past 24
hours in keeping Imran Khan in isolation. So that he cannot directly communicate with his supporters, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Ivan Watson there. Thank you so much for that. To Russia now, the governors are three border regions say they were attacked by Ukrainian
drones claiming the targets included a military facility. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian Military says it's inflicted, "Huge losses on Russian forces"
near the City of Bakhmut. Nick Paton Walsh joins us now. Nick, good to have you with us in some way it echoes.
[09:15:00]
The complaints that we got last week once again from the Wagner Chief saying that they were in dire need of weaponry reinforcements. Do we have
any way to verify the Ukrainian claims?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, partly because they're echoed indeed by Wagner themselves, who initially
brought to attention the belief that certain parts of the southern front around Bakhmut. There'd been a three kilometer deep retreat by some parts
of the Russian Military.
The 72nd Mechanized Brigade was the initial claim. Now that was first aired by Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Wagner Head saying that he'd lost 500 men
fighting for that area. And again, he used this example as another moment to poke at the Russian conventional military saying that it was the Russian
conventional troops who departed this area, and essentially casting Wagner as those doing the bulk of the serious fighting to hang on to Bakhmut.
But it's another display of disunity here, and also an example that the fighting around Bakhmut is definitely not going in Russia's way a stark
reversal from a matter of weeks ago, where we persistently heard thoughts that perhaps Russia might have the upper hand might be able to potentially
close off and encircle the remain Ukrainian troops in there.
Now we've had a week of public comments from Yevgeny Prigozhin, saying he would leave today entirely because he didn't have enough artillery shells,
and then saying he would stay then saying he actually wasn't getting enough and now blaming the Russian army itself, for pulling away from a key part
of the front.
None of this is good for Russian morale or frankly, for the grip of Vladimir Putin on this increasingly disastrous war. We are days away if not
already in the early stages of Ukrainian counter offensive and so Russian troops in the trenches are hearing their most probably prominent Russian
Military figure Prigozhin speak very disparagingly about the commander's the top brass running this war.
And indeed, now this appears to be translating into a small but significant, still a deeply symbolic collapse of Russian positions along
this front line confirmed by Ukrainian Military officials who said in fact, their troops managed to push forward. So we're seeing a lot changing here
around Bakhmut, so symbolic for Russia.
The one thing they said they would take this or they take it by today, finally, that hasn't happened. And instead, we're seeing parts of the
Russian Military. It seems eroding small, but still potentially important positions around that city, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: And one can only imagine what impact this is having on morale. Nick, what can you also tell us about the Ukrainian saying that Russia
won't allow staff of the Zaporizhzhia power plant, the Nuclear Power Plant, of course, to evacuate a nearby town absolutely on the front lines of any
apparent started or impending counter attack by the Ukrainians?
WALSH: Yes, look, I mean, it's unclear exactly what's happening inside the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant. It has been held up so often by Russian
occupying forces as sort of elements of nuclear blackmail, and we don't really know quite what is happening inside it or around it.
We do know that in Zaporizhzhia, there's been evacuations called by the Russian occupying forces 3000 the last figure of civilians, they said
they've moved away from frontline towns. Certainly that includes the areas, large numbers around potentially the Zaporizhzhia plan, that town being
evacuated --.
But there is a constant fear here of exactly what we may see in terms of Russian fire power focused on frontline towns. We've seen it ourselves. I'm
hearing sirens around me here in Zaporizhzhia at the moment that had been on, off frankly for the past week or so and those evacuations perhaps
heralding Russia's Military bracing itself for a potential Ukrainian onslaught or also Ukrainian officials saying being used as cover to let
Russian Military pull out to some of those towns as well. So a lot moving certainly in the northern parts of the Zaporizhzhia occupied area, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Nick, great to have you with us. Nick Paton Walsh, there thank you. OK, after the break, Japan's Foreign Minister says the war in Ukraine
has made the world less stable and we discuss how the nation is rethinking its own security when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", talks are underway between Japan and NATO about opening a Liaison Office in Japan, the first of its kind in
Asia. And an exclusive CNN interview the country's Foreign Minister said Japan has been forced to rethink security in the region.
As Russia's war in Ukraine continues and NATO official told CNN, "There are ongoing discussions with Japan and among NATO allies on a possible NATO
Liaison Office in Japan". But no decisions have been made. Marc Stewart joins us now on this.
Marc, reminds me of what the Japanese Prime Minister said in Singapore a security conference. It was Ukraine today maybe East Asia tomorrow, the
situation clearly forcing everything of security and closer relations with NATO clearly.
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No question Julia, the world is clearly paying attention. And let's make it clear, this is not a situation where
Japan wants to join NATO. It already has an established relationship and it really wants to now strengthen its ties with the Alliance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART (voice over): The war in Ukraine and Russian aggression is prompting Japan to discuss opening a NATO Liaison Office, the first of its
kind in Asia.
YOSHIMASA HAYASHI, JAPANESE FOREIGN MINISTER: The reason why we are discussing about this is that since the aggression by last year to Ukraine,
the wild become more kind of unstable prices. And I felt like something happened in East Europe is not only confined to the issue in East Europe,
and that affects directly to the situation here in the Pacific.
STEWART (voice over): Japanese Foreign Minister Yoshimasa Hayashi also highlighted North Korean missile launches and called China the greatest
challenge for security.
STEWART (on camera): Is this to send a message to perhaps China or to North Korea that there is strength in numbers, what would the intention of this
be?
HAYASHI: Yes, discussion is not intended to be sending a message to any specific countries. But as I said that, you know, security environment we
are facing is becoming more and more severe and also complex.
STEWART (voice over): His remarks come after Japan announced a new national security plan last year that would see the country double its defense
spending, moving away from its pacifist constitution in the face of growing threats. Even though an agreement between NATO and Japan is far from
complete NATO's potential presence in Asia is already drawing criticism from China.
A government spokesperson said Asia is an anchor for peace and stability and a promising land for cooperation and development, not a wrestling
ground for geopolitical competition. Yet Japan's Foreign Minister reiterates that such a move won't escalate tensions in the region.
STEWART (on camera): Do you worry that this alliance building will create more tension in the Pacific region?
HAYASHI: We are not. You know offending anyone we are defending ourselves from any kind of interference and concerns and in some cases threat.
[09:25:00]
STEWART (voice over): As allies convene in Hiroshima for the G7 summit next week maintaining stability in an increasingly volatile region remains at
the top of the agenda.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART: And on the topic of the G7, the Foreign Minister told me that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, has been given an invite and that
he will likely appear in some kind of virtual forum something that we'll be talking about most likely as early as next week, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating, isn't it? There comment there and a great question from you about the perception of this not being about going
on the offensive. It's about defense and not always how it's perceived by others. Marc Stewart, thank you so much for that great interview.
OK, straight ahead on "First Move", Futurist Fuel Cell technology combined with a ferocious cash burn. The truck maker Nikola has his work cut out the
new CEO is up next to discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", a new direction for the zero emission truck maker Nikola. It's selling operations in Europe while
refocusing on demand and production in North America and catering to a hydrogen fueled future. With production of its hydrogen fuel cell trucks
set to begin in the summer.
The company is also promising to deliver mobile with fueling stations to get around the lack of hydrogen supply. But there's also a shortage perhaps
of investor confidence. The stock fell 13 percent yesterday, after the company announced a quarterly loss of almost $170 million.
Michael Lohscheller is the CEO and he joins us now. Michael, welcome to the show. This is an exciting business at the best of times and these times are
tougher. I think you might agree. Investors were concerned yesterday this raising cash in the short time address those concerns in your mind and can
you do it?
[09:30:00]
MICHAEL LOHSCHELLER, CEO, NIKOLA CORPORATION: Julia, Good Morning, and thanks for having me on your show. So a couple of things I mean, first of
all, investors are very pleased that the cash burn is coming down, we have to reduce it.
And that's exactly what we're doing. And we do it by focusing on what really matters for Nikola, right? The hydrogen business, the fuel cell
truck in North America, but of course, we want to accelerate this adoption to zero emission mobility much faster. And I think if we execute this,
well, the confidence will improve.
But we are now in the middle of this important execution phase. And I think we do the right thing being much focused on North America, the fuel cell
track and the energy infrastructure. And we really set up and hydrogen ecosystem. And I think the more we do this, and the more proof points we
have, the better it will be.
CHATTERLEY: And it sounds perfect to me. But just if I go through the numbers very quickly, because I think this is what caused the alarm $121
million of cash remaining at the end of the march 31 quarter that was down from 233 million and the net loss for the quarter, just shy of $170 million
dollars.
I understand why an investor looks at this and says another quarter like that, even amid your promises that that cash burn is going to reduce and
you've got a real problem, like you have to raise money this quarter. Would you agree with that?
LOHSCHELLER: Yes, correct. And we have access to liquidity. First of all, we raised another 100 million in the month of April, we have access to
liquidity in the amount of 800 million, but it is correct. The cash burn in the first quarter was relatively high.
And that's why we took those important decisions, sell the European business to our partner Evaporation focus on the fuel cell truck here in
North America and bring this cash burn down significantly. At the same time, we need to raise capital this year.
And we will do that. That's why we also asked for stockholder approval in our AGM in June, but yes, reduction of cash burn and then implementing on
our program. That's what we have to do going forward.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, you sound very focused on that which I thinks' important. What are current investors saying to you about the prospect of giving you
more money, and I totally understand your point that you clearly have access to liquidity, though I'm assuming it's pretty expensive?
LOHSCHELLER: Well, first of all, everybody is agreeing the future of mobility is without emissions. So we do the right things. I mean, look what
happened in California where people now and the institutions are saying, look, the Diesel will disappear, and 2036 drayage fleets have to go zero
emission already 2024.
So everything is going in our direction. But of course, the implementation is important. That's why the reduction of cash burn is important reduction
of cost, and faster acceleration in terms of zero emission adoption. That is what matters for us.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think you're completely right, that their direction of travel is perfect for cleaner, energy cleaner cars, cleaner fuel sources,
it's just so expensive. In the short term, which we've discussed, and we've discussed it many times with other CEOs on this show as well.
Let's talk about this, because I do think this is important for my viewers to understand, you believe that the focus and the core needs to be on fuel
cell technology for your trucks going forward?
What is the advantage over electric battery vehicles in your mind? And how much of a head start do you have given your infrastructure and the
technology that you have over competitors? How much time do you have?
LOHSCHELLER: So what we get in terms of feedback from customers is very clear. First of all, our future track, which will come already in July, and
the market have a range of up to 500 miles. That is significantly more than the battery electric truck.
Another important advantage for the fuel cell truck is the fueling time; it's around 20 minutes in the truck industry. It's all about uptime; you
want to run your truck. So if you fuel only for 20 minutes, that's a big advantage. Also, the weight is better.
What is important for us for Nikola that we set up the infrastructure at the same time? Now, what are the key advantages of Nikola and why we so
much focus on the fuel cell truck is first of all, we have a first mover advantage.
I mean, we come with our truck already in July of this year. And there's really nobody else out. And I think this advantage we want to use more
important and that's also a lesson learned is you have to set up the hydrogen infrastructure at the same time.
Because just having the best truck in the world is not sufficient because all your customers say where can we fuel and therefore we set up the
hydrogen infrastructure we just announced also partnership was Voltera to set up 50 stations. And a very nice little innovation is we also offer a
mobile fuel line in case a permanent station takes too much time.
CHATTERLEY: I mean America is a really big place. Just compare and contrast. And it's great the deal that you're talking about for fueling
opportunities versus the level of charging infrastructure in the United States today. Like how long is that going to take?
LOHSCHELLER: Well, obviously this one take a few years but of course you need to define the first route right, so the fuel cell economy will not be
like you can go everywhere at the beginning. But once we have orders, and we have already 140 orders.
[09:35:00]
Which is great, and then we can define exactly which locations are perfect for the hydrogen infrastructure. So you have to think about this, like a
rail network, which is growing every time. And this will take a few years, but I think we do now the important first steps.
CHATTERLEY: And you're aiming to produce 150 to 200 Fuel Cell trucks. I believe in as you said, the production starts in July great that you have
140 orders, are they paid up? Signed, sealed and delivered? And what about the outlook for more demand?
LOHSCHELLER: Yes, those are firm orders from customers to our dealer network. And it's a great sign. Because think about this, I mean, those
customers could not drive our truck because it just comes now in July.
So that's a big sign of confidence. And obviously, my intention is now to grow this auto book very, very quickly. But it also shows there are so many
advantages. And it feels like the time is right for hydrogen.
And also, I mean, the public support through the inflation Reduction Act through the state regulations is enormous. So I mean hydrogen technology is
not new. But now we are really on the right side of history. And it's coming through.
CHATTERLEY: It's obviously about cash savings as well, the decision, I think, to move away from Europe and say, look, we're going to leave that
behind. And we're going to focus on the United States.
And I'm sure a big truck market as well. But to your point that you just made that did the inflation Reduction Act make a big difference in terms of
incentives for you helping you make that decision?
LOHSCHELLER: Yes, it did and just look at a few numbers. I mean, like in California, you get support for fuel, so truck in the amount of $288,000.
That's a lot of money per truck, right; you get support in terms of producing green hydrogen.
Nikola will produce in Arizona with partners green hydrogen. So if you put all this together, it's really attractive. And that has influenced our
decision as well. But truth being said also, I mean, a young company like ours doing business in North America.
And Europe is a lot, right, we have limited resources. So it was an easy decision for me to say, look, let's give the European business into the
capable hands of E-vehicle and we focus on North America.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, that's a hydrogen fueled rocket to the Europeans, quite frankly, as well, that they need to step up on the incentives as
well. But, you know, if I just look in the past year, six months.
Actually, we've had one EV makers say, Look, we're in danger of going bankrupt. We've got Tesla engaged in a sort of price war with competitors
loosens disappointed with their earnings reviews challenged as well.
And there will be investors looking at this sector and saying, I buy the story. I believe in it, but the challenges of producing and meeting market
demand are burdensome. Michael, what do you say to those that say, Nikola may not be around in one year's time?
LOHSCHELLER: First of all, we do a good job in terms of implementing our things, right. I mean, we have a battery electric truck in the market. We
know how to develop a truck. The fuel cell truck is coming now in July.
So we have tangible proof points. We are setting up the energy infrastructure. So we do all the right things. And yes, we need to raise
money, but I think we have absolutely a competitive advantage. And that's why we confident that we will have a very successful future.
CHATTERLEY: Michael, great to chat to you. Come back and talk to us keep pleasing. Keep us posted on the progression. Thank you.
LOHSCHELLER: Thank you, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Michael Lohscheller, the CEO of Nikola. OK, some breaking news to bring to now U.S. Congressman George Santos has been arrested on charges
of wire fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds and making false statements.
The New York Republican was elected to Congress last November. He's admitted to lying about his background and his education. And there are
also serious questions being asked about his finances. Santos is expected to appear in court as early as this afternoon.
OK, still to come, tackling the tough questions around artificial intelligence in the classroom. I speak to the CEO of a nonprofit set out to
empower teachers and students with technology after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:40:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to 'First Move' in a busy day already for investors on this 'First Move' Wednesday the U.S. out with key inflation
information debt ceiling negotiators promising more deliberation amid financial market perspiration but not enough.
And Former FOX host Tucker Carlson show has a surprise new location we'll discuss shortly but first a higher open for stocks with tech in the lead a
bit of relief perhaps after new numbers showing us consumer inflation easing slightly.
In April the direction is right CPI falling for a 10th straight month and is currently under 5 percent. That's actually its lowest level in two
years. That said the pace of easing is still not fast enough a lot of other tasks ahead for markets do Disney's profits coming after the closing bell
today.
And concern is growing over the lack of progress in the debt ceiling negotiations. Now despite all the debt default fears, S&P and the NASDAQ
still in positive territory over the past month, and the NASDAQ up more than 16 percent.
In fact, so far this year, we need a two year chart actually to give you some perspective and context on that. But still, global equity investors
also come overall, the German DAX and the French CAC up 14 percent year to date, the Nikkei for you there to over in Japan up 11 percent.
OK, there have been questions and warnings about how fast chats like ChatGPT are being developed concerns that they could replace jobs and fears
about their place in the world, especially in the classroom.
We're now one organization is asking teachers to rethink education in the age of AI co.org along with a number of other leaders in education and
technology, including open AI, Microsoft, Amazon, and the College Board have launched teach AI.
The initiative in coordination with the World Economic Forum plans to empower educators to not only teach about artificial intelligence, but to
teach with artificial intelligence. Joining us now is Hadi Partovi; he's the CEO of Code.org. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
I love the ambition of teach AI. The question is, for me, how fast can you move?
HADI PARTOVI, CEO CODE.ORG: Well, thank you for having me. And, you know, to ask about how fast can you move? I think the first question or the first
thing we need to get over is recognizing that we need to move. That's the education system as we've known it has to evolve, or else it'll be out of
date.
You know, and right now, not everybody's on the same page. You know, as soon as things like ChatGPT came out, there's many school systems that
decided to ban it. Because students could do all of their homework and pass all their exams using this AI technology.
And so what are we going to do, let's just prevent them from doing that. But not everybody's banned it. You know, for example, in New York City,
where there's a ban, the private schools actually have special classes teaching you how to use AI, and you know, teaching prompt engineering and
things like that.
And so, the first important step we need to make is recognize that there's a space between banning technology versus just saying, Oh do we just move
forward at all costs and it's everything's positive to find the middle ground to safely integrate AI into the classroom and to evolve what happens
in education, to rethink how we teach. And even what we teach in an age of AI.
[09:45:00]
CHATTERLEY: We have the calculator response the idea that this is cheating, the use of AI is cheating and therefore must be banned instantly. But there
are two things here. For me, there are the benefits that can accrue to students, beyond getting all the homework written for them.
But also providing assistance to teachers that, for the most part, are overwhelmed by the number of students that they have to teach, and never
mind the content that they're teaching and perhaps, that needs updating to, can you explain to us the obvious benefits that you can see and how this
can be implemented to benefit both in education?
PARTOVI: Yes, the benefit for teachers is very obvious. And in fact, in the United States, already, 30 percent of teachers use ChatGPT every single
week, to prepare lesson plans and to basically make their own life easier.
And this isn't surprising, because in every workplace, employers are asking their employees, figure out how you can use this new a tech AI technology
to be more productive, if it can save you time. Everybody, it's a good thing.
But in terms of helping students, it's not up to just the teachers and students, we need administrations and even governments to think a little
bit about how we change how we teach, how we test what we teach, and even the purpose sort of them, what we teach.
Because, you know, for example, with the invention of the calculator, it's become much less important to have students learn to become really good at
multiplying or dividing numbers. The calculator does that for us.
There's a similar level, but with the rise of the Internet, and now artificial intelligence, schools should involve less memorization, less
rote repetition, and more creativity, problem solving, collaboration, critical thinking.
You know things like that, focusing more on skills, less on just content memorization. And that shift is something that I think the internet already
made some reason for it, but AI is really taking it to the next level.
CHATERLEY: Yes, it's funny. I mean, the critics here would say, hey, basic mathematic skills, though, are required before you lay on top with a
calculator that can do some of the hard work for you. So it is, again, it goes back to that balance of utilizing technology for good but also having
basic skills. You grew up in Iran? Go on
PARTOVI: Yes, I really agree with you, we have to teach reading and writing. Before we teach writing with AI, we have to teach basic addition
and subtraction before we teach our calculator.
CHATERLEY: Absolutely.
PARTOVI: We have to teach coding before we teach coding with AI. But the goal should be a graduate knows how to use technology as a superpower.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, that was literally where I was going to take you because I was going to say, I believe you grew up in Iran during the revolution. And
actually, with your help of your father, you actually taught yourself to code and the rest is history.
I'm sure that was a long road. But I think this is part of also helping students help themselves in many ways. The question is how do we get there?
How do we bring together an industry that for the most part, saying, hey, we need to pause to understand what we're doing?
Governments that I think, for the most part, are blindsided. And the natural response has been that we have to ban this rather than trying to
adapt and utilize it because our education systems, what in the space of 5 to 10 years are going to be deeply outdated by this technology, whether we
like it or not. So what has to be the action today?
PARTOVI: That's a really great question. I think people recognize the need for urgent action. You know, over the pandemic, school systems took urgent
action, we know it is possible for school systems to adapt quickly to new technology.
And with AI, there's both an opportunity and a risk. And one of the greatest risks is taking no action at a time when this technology is going
to make old methods out of date. Now, why am I doing this?
You know, you mentioned my background, being an Iranian who grew up during a war and revolution. And I was born in Iran and grew up in the United
States; I'd have sort of a worldly background.
And my organization Code.org has for 10 years had alliances with the largest technology companies such as Microsoft, Google, and Amazon, while
working with governments, both in the United States and all around the world, to help move curriculum to make computer science part of the
curriculum.
And so now we're leveraging the coalition's we built to make an even broader coalition of technology companies, governments, education companies
the such as Khan Academy, organizations such as the World Economic Forum, to bring together people to have this discussion.
And the first thing we are doing at teach AI is simply beginning the dialogue so that the educators talk to the technology companies share are
there fears here about where things are going and collectively chart a path forward because everybody has this question of where's education going?
[09:50:00]
But you can't answer that question in your own little space entire governments working together need to do that, because this is a global and
interconnected system. And so we need to collectively build some consensus about what should be the future of education.
And then how do we build together and there's some short term things we're going to need to do. But changing the system in the long run is going to
take a few years. And so what we're doing is one to two years of dialogue between ministries and educators and technology companies.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, thank you for facilitating this conversation. Because I think for most of us, it's just mind bending, even trying to imagine where
AI is going never mind the implication. So if I'd have been on camera there.
You would have seen me busily complaining that we don't have more time. So you have to come back and talk to me about what you're doing specifically
with Code.org too, but for now, thank you, sir. We appreciate your time.
PARTOVI: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: OK. Thank you. OK, coming up after the break, bringing the changes voice and video calls and law. Twitter promises new features to
keep the money rolling in. They hope that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to new futures features are coming to Twitter. CEO Elon Musk is promising encrypted messaging along with phone and video calls
that will allow Twitter users to communicate without handing out their phone numbers.
CNN Tech Writer, Clare Duffy joins us on this class. Clare, it's very Meta, like in fact, but the point is without giving up your phone, so like
WhatsApp, like phone calls messenger but without the number?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH WRITER: So Julia, Musk has said that he is planning to roll out this first version of encrypted DMS Of course, there are a lot
of questions remaining about what exactly this will look like whether encrypted DMS will happen by default.
Whether users will have to opt into it and sort of exactly what that looks like. And of course Musk has previously said a number of times that
features or changes would be coming to the platform. And then it doesn't end up happening the day he says it's going to happen.
So I think this is still a bit of a wait and see. And then of course the same thing with this plan to let users call each other or video chat from
their handles. Lots of questions still remain about what exactly that will look like.
But it would be a big shift for Twitter. Twitter has for so long been about the public conversation. And this would be really a shift to Twitter being
much more about private conversations, which is kind of interesting.
CHATERLEY: We shall see Clare, I believe we've lost communication so you didn't hear my question or answer but you answered that perfectly. So when
you watch this back, you'll see that Clare Duffy thank you for that.
OK, and finally Buddy Holly won a dog show last night perplexed. I am of course. Well that's the name of the best in show the annual Westminster
Kennel Club show last night here in New York. The breed is slightly harder to explain buddy is a PBGV or a Patek Basset Griffon Vendeen, just next
time by Pomeranian.
What a mouthful the runner up is much easier to pronounce a Pekinese named Remy unfortunately my revenue was of course once again far too busy to
attend the show he was very happy not to compete, as you can see, almost looks like an electric shock victim.
[09:55:00]
He's happy. That's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they'll be on my Twitter and Instagram pages search for
@jchatterleycnn "Connect the World" is up next, and I'll see you tomorrow.
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[10:00:00]
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