Return to Transcripts main page
First Move with Julia Chatterley
Trump Arrested and Processed at Fulton County Jail; Powell set to Discuss Efforts to Contain Inflation; Browder: Putin was Humiliated for two Months; Investors Await Powell Speech on U.S. Economy; Spanish Football Chief: I will not Resign; Blackswan has no Korean Members. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired August 25, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move". I'm Zain Asher in for my colleague Julia Chatterley. Just ahead on today's show mug
shot moment Former President Donald Trump surrendering to authorities in the U.S. State of Georgia.
Thursday night Trump arrested for his alleged role in the 2020 election case other co-defendants turning themselves in overnight as well. Georgia
prosecutors now looking at an October trial date, even though that is considered very, very soon.
Also Prigozhin probe the Kremlin today denying any responsibility for the plane crash that appears to have taken the life of Yevgeny Prigozhin.
Moscow also blasting U.S. President Biden's comments on the matter the U.S. and the UK, still probing the circumstances of the crash. We'll have a live
report for you just ahead.
And fed focus global investors await a closely watched speech from Fed Chair Powell beginning one hour from now at the Fed's Jackson Hole Wyoming
Symposium. ECB Head Christine Lagarde will also speak later in the day as well.
Jackson Hole is a venue where central bankers traditionally deliver very important policy messages so we'll be watching what he says very closely.
And ahead of Powell's comments U.S. stocks remain on track for mostly higher open. European stocks on the invites as well after a weak Asian
handover.
Reports today say that China is poised to take new steps to boost investor's confidence. But the Shanghai Composite and the HANG SENG closed
lower on the day Japanese stocks fell by some 2 percent.
That was a lot so much to get through this hour. But let's get the latest from Georgia. Donald Trump has surrendered himself in Georgia and he's also
become the first Former U.S. President to have a mug shot taken? Here it is.
Oh, you don't have the mug shot yet but he flew into Atlanta to be booked at Fulton County jail on charges related to efforts to overturn the 2020
election results. It is the fourth time Trump has surrendered himself to authorities in less than a year Nick Valencia has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mug shot an inmate number p01135809 will forever be associated with a Former President Donald J.
Trump was arrested on state charges related to election subversion in Georgia Thursday. He was booked and released on bond at the Fulton County
Jail. Former President took to the right wing network Newsmax to discuss his surrender.
DONALD TRUMP, 45TH PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Terrible experience. I came in I was treated very nicely, but it is, what it is. I
took a mug shot which I never heard the words mug shot that wasn't didn't teach me that at the Wharton School of Finance. And I have to go through a
process since its election interference.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Ahead of his surrender, Trump agreed to a $200,000 bond and other release conditions including not using social media to
intimidate co-defendants and witnesses in the case. This is the fourth criminal case filed against the Former President this year.
TRUMP: What has taken place here is a travesty of justice. We did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. And everybody knows that.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Trump continues to deny any wrongdoing in this case, and the others.
TRUMP: It should never happen. If you challenge an election you should be able to challenge an election. I thought the election was a rigged
election, a stolen election. And I should have every right to do that as you know --
VALENCIA (voice-over): Trump shared his mug shot and his Truth Social and his ex-account formerly known as Twitter, with the words election
interference and never surrenders below it. It was his first tweet on X since January 8th, 2021 two days after the insurrection. The Former
President was not the only high profile person to surrender on Thursday.
Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows surrendered himself to the Fulton County jail. He has been charged with violating Georgia's RICO Act
and soliciting a public officer to violate their oath. He denies any wrongdoing.
FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: A Fulton County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment.
VALENCIA (voice-over): Just last week, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis charged Trump and 18 co-defendants with meddling in the 2020 Georgia
presidential election laws. On Thursday, the District Attorney filed the motion requesting a trial date of October 23rd, 2023.
That date was set after Kenneth Chesebro the co-defendant who was considered the architect of the fake electors plot requested a speedy trial
as his right. His trial was set to begin on that date. Trump's attorneys say he opposes the proposed trial date.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[09:05:00]
ASHER: And new this morning the Kremlin says genetic testing is underway to determine if Wagner Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin died in a plane crash outside
of Moscow on Wednesday. This as Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov says allegations that Russia gave an order to kill the Prigozhin or a complete
lie.
Meantime, Russian President Vladimir Putin broke his silence on Thursday he offered his condolences and called the mercenary leader, a talented man who
made serious mistakes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: First of all, I want to express my sincere condolences to the families of all the victims. This is always a
tragedy. Preliminary information suggests that Wagner Group employees were also on board.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Matthew Chance joins us live now in St. Petersburg. So Matthew, do we have any more clarity just in terms of what exactly caused the crash
that killed allegedly killed I should say Yevgeny Prigozhin. Matthew, can you hear me?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I can't hear you very well Zain. And no, we don't have any more clarity is the short
answer to that. We know that this plane for no apparent discernible reason at the moment that we've established sort of crashed about 60 miles outside
of Moscow.
We know that all 10 people on board, including we believe Yevgeny Prigozhin the Head of Wagner, but also other senior Wagner figures were killed. And
what's happening now is that there's still an investigation underway, which the Russian authorities are heading up, and they say they're going to get
to the back of it or bottom of it rather.
But of course, online, you know, amongst Russians you speak to there are all sorts of speculation about there being a bomb on board about it being a
victim of anti-aircraft fire. There's a lot of suspicion around the country as well, for many of the Russians I've spoken to off camera who believed
the Kremlin may have been implicated as revenge, after Yevgeny Prigozhin led that abortive uprising against Kremlin authority in June of this year.
A revenge killing in other words, that's something that within the past few hours, the Kremlin has categorically denied. They've called that allegation
absolute lies. Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin Spokesman, saying those words to reporters earlier, but nevertheless, it's still a suspicion held by many
people around Russia, even if they weren't to express it publicly for understandable reasons.
You can see, we're here at this makeshift memorial in St. Petersburg, which is Prigozhin's home city, it's Putin's home city as well as you may know.
It's right in front of the Wagner headquarters. And you can see people are trickling in, they're putting these flowers here, these memorials
photographs of Prigozhin over there. Little messages to him, saying how much he's missed and how much of a hero he was for Russia I've been showing
this, but I'll show you as well.
This is a very heavy sledge hammer with Wagner on it, it's become a symbol. This hammer this kind of tool of the extreme violence that Wagner used to
enforce discipline and to exact revenge amongst people it regarded as straight as a hammer like this that was used to brutally execute someone
they regarded as a traitor and they videoed it.
And that video really consolidated this idea that Wagner was a ruthless organization that would do anything to protect the motherland, as they as
they saw Russia. And so yet, that extreme violence attracted a lot of people. And what's interesting now is that there is this steady stream of
people, not just in St. Petersburg, but in Moscow, in other cities around the country coming to pay their respects.
Not a lot of people, but some, and that just gives you a little indication of just how popular figure Yevgeny Prigozhin was and how Wagner continues
to be popular in the minds of many Russians?
ASHER: At the same time, that as you point out, Vladimir Putin, the Kremlin denying they had any involvement in terms of Prigozhin's alleged death, but
Vladimir Putin also coming out and saying, but yes, he was talented, but he made some serious mistakes. All right, Matthew Chance live for us there.
Thank you so much.
Greek authorities say they're dealing with a large resurgence of wildfires, scorching parts of the country fires north of the Greek Capital, Athens are
still under control today with parts of the forest there destroyed overnight.
Eleni Giokos joins us live now from just outside Athens. Eleni just walk us through what firefighters are dealing with. I mean, these flames seem
almost impossible to snuff out and these firefighters are clearly overwhelmed.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're clearly overwhelmed. They say that they're battling something that is akin to a nightmare every single night.
You have to remember when the sun goes down the aerial assistance comes to an end. We've been at the spot for almost two hours. This is Parnitha
Mountain. We've said this many times it is the lungs of Athens.
[09:10:00]
You can see a fire now -- Virgin forest, so much lighter has already been decimated. We're still seeing flames erupt in certain spots, some of it
while we were waiting for you. We saw a fire erupting actually here over to my right. You can see flames that have emerged in Virgin forests Zain.
Parnitha Mountains still not a controlled area. The fire department says they're still battling blazes many fronts across this mountain. This isn't
the only front however in Greece, we've got many others, many wildfires around the country, especially in Alexandroupoli, where that is probably
one of the biggest fronts right now.
We've already had 20 deaths 18 bodies found earlier this week one now due to smoke inhalation another heart attack related to the fires as what
authorities are telling us. I want to give you a sense of the numbers in terms of land that has been burned.
1.3 billion square meters estimated by the EU forest fire information system says has already been decimated that would make it the largest
wildfire destruction since records began. In Alexandroupoli 73,000 hectares has been burned out.
Now the Greek authorities say it's too early to quantify the damage that they will be measuring this after the wildfire season. 79 arrests for
arson, so we have climate change issues, heat. You've got wind exacerbating these catastrophic fires. People's homes have been destroyed. And then you
have people deliberately setting fires as well.
Cases of arson have emerged not only here in Parnitha, but also in other areas in Greece as well Zain. But this is a battle that continues. Let me
tell you, the people that are fighting on the ground, the women and the men manning the fire trucks, and as well as the planes and the helicopters that
we can see ahead of us over there are absolutely heroic. It has been incredible to see the commitment and the heroism in fighting these fires.
ASHER: And Eleni I am so glad you pointed that out. And when you actually just pan the camera to show those images that kind of smoke billowing in
the air just gives you a real sense of what these firefighters are up against. That certainly is a sight to behold Eleni Giokos live for us
there. Thank you so much.
All right, in other news Jackson Hole is ready for its close up once again. The 46th Annual Fed Economic Symposium at the Western Wyoming Resort area
is well underway. Investors are hoping for a kinder gentler speech from Fed Chair Jerome Powell this year. Powell is hawkish smash that message in 2022
sent the DOW tumbling one thousand points.
Matt Egan joins us live now. Matt, the markets are desperately hoping there's not going to be a repeat of that. And I don't think there will be
because we're in a much different place compared to last year when Jerome Powell made that speech last year, inflation was around 8.5 percent now
it's around 3 percent. So things have really changed,
MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Zain it is very different. But you know, the market reaction from the past few days does suggest that at least some
investors are having some flashbacks to last year's Jackson Hole sell off that you referenced.
During that speech Powell, he warned that the process of bringing down inflation would be painful to consumers. Investors are sort of on edge
about what Powell was going to say today, especially about where interest rates go from here. Let's look at where investors are pricing things in
heading into this speech.
At last check, there is an 80 percent chance priced into the market of no interest rate hike in September, and about a 20 percent chance of a quarter
of a point rate hike. So that is before Powell speaks. We don't know exactly what Powell is going to say.
He should acknowledge that improvement in inflation that you just pointed to and the fact that the process of getting inflation back down hasn't been
nearly as painful as many people anticipated, recession fears have eased. But Zain, I don't think that we should expect Powell to take a complete
victory lap.
Not yet. Inflation is not back to 2 percent. And Powell knows that if he's too dovish here, he could end up setting off a celebration on Wall Street
and that is not what he wants. Because if markets spike and bond yields cool off, you know, that's actually going to make financial conditions
easier.
And that's going to make it harder to get inflation back down. So I think at best, Powell is going to take a measured approach, talk about the
progress and allude to more work done, but at worst Zain he could deliver another sobering message that investors don't want to hear.
ASHER: And it's interesting because one of the biggest mistakes the Fed made believed that inflation post pandemic was only going to be transitory
that it was just going to be temporary. And so because of those errors there's so much more pressure on the fed on Jerome Powell to really get
things right from here on now.
[09:15:00]
Matt Egan live for us there. Thank you so much. All right, straight ahead, we'll discuss Putin, Prigozhin and swirling questions surrounding the plane
crash with Kremlin Critic Bill Browder. You won't want to miss it stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: The apparent death of former Putin ally Yevgeny Prigozhin in a plane crash is raising a number of questions, not just who might be behind it but
how exactly it happened remains a mystery, Katie Polglase investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER (voice-over): Falling from the sky the plane reported to be carrying the Wagner Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin,
coming two months after he launched a mutiny against Russia's Leader Vladimir Putin. He was widely seen as a man on borrowed time.
As footage started to emerge on social media of the crash CNN's open source team began piecing together what happened. The aircraft associated with
Prigozhin is RA02795. It makes frequent trips between Moscow and St. Petersburg. CNN geo located the main crash site to here and you can see the
same tail number visible amid the debris.
The plane had left Moscow at 5:55 pm local time 12 minutes later, the location is no longer detectable but Public Flight Tracking Site Flight
Radar 24 still receives information on its altitude.
POLGLASE: The last minute of the recorded flight is key; you can see here the flight's altitude is erratic. It's going higher and lower, before it
eventually plummets. Now aviation experts told us this is highly unusual. And it suggests those on board were trying to stabilize the plane after
something happened to it. In other words, the disruption was not big enough to obliterate everyone and everything instantly.
POLGLASE (voice-over): Expert's opinion is split on what exactly happened likely an explosion, perhaps a bomb on board or a missile hitting it or
even something else. Whatever it was clearly powerful as the plane is visibly falling without a wing.
The tail ends up over here 2.6 kilometers away from where the rest of the debris lands. Videos show fires at the crash site, some are graphic human
remains strewn amid the debris. Since then, Russian authorities have taken the bodies away for examination and began an investigation. For many have
already made up their minds as to who they think was behind the Wagner aircraft's violent end Katie Polglase, CNN London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[09:20:00]
ASHER: The U.K. Ministry of Defense says it is highly likely that Wagner Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is dead in its latest intelligence update, the MOD
said there is not yet definitive proof that Prigozhin was actually onboard this plane. However, it is highly likely that he is indeed dead.
Joining me live now is Bill Browder, CEO and Co-Founder of Hermitage Capital Management. He was once the largest foreign investor in Russia
until he was declared a threat to national security for exposing corruption in state owned companies. He's also the Author of Freezing Order, a true
story of money laundering, murder, and surviving Vladimir Putin's wrath.
Bill, so, so good to have you with us on this story so many questions here. Just give us your take on this plane crash, the fact that Yevgeny Prigozhin
was allegedly on board, what we don't know and where we should be treading very carefully?
BILL BROWDER, CEO OF HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Well, first, I think we should just state the obvious that Putin has a long history of killing his
enemies. He declared Yevgeny Prigozhin to be his enemy after Prigozhin launched a rebellion on June 24.
The only thing surprising in the last few days is that it took two months for Putin to act out on his vengeance. I think it's absolutely obvious and
clear, that's when you see this plane falling out of the sky, whatever caused it to fall out of the sky, that this was an assassination organized
by Vladimir Putin to kill his most important opponent at the moment.
ASHER: So what do you think that if it is Putin behind it, and I obviously want to be very careful as a journalist, if it has been behind it? Why do
you think he did indeed, wait two months?
BROWDER: Well, this is the question that everyone was asking me every day during this two month period, like, what is it? You know, I mean, if you
think about it, I know many, many people who are sitting in jail for just saying bad words about Putin.
ASHER: Right.
BROWDER: People from the Russian opposition. I was friends with Boris Nemtsov, who was shot and killed for just criticizing Vladimir Putin. And
to have a guy who organized armed rebellions survive for two months is just inexplicable. I mean, the only thing I can speculate on is that Prigozhin
was such a powerful person in terms of all the different mercenary operations he was running abroad.
In Africa, I think there's 17 countries in Africa where Wagner is active, that they need to figure out how to replace them? What their contingency
plan was? And they needed to get that all in place before they actually took them out. But that's the main mystery is not that they killed him.
That's the most obvious thing in the world. But that was ready to be humiliated. And really, he was humiliated for two months while Prigozhin
was running around as if nothing had happened.
ASHER: You know I find fascinating is that obviously if you're, Yevgeny Prigozhin, you know how the game goes, you know, the game that you're in.
And so you are aware that from the day of that failed rebellion, that you are essentially a marked man, your days are numbered.
Wouldn't somebody like Yevgeny Prigozhin have a ton of Prigozhin's in place for this possible eventuality?
BROWDER: For sure, and if you remember when on the day of the rebellion, the Russian secret police, the FSB, raided his office and raided his home.
And they found multiple passports with different names in them they found wigs and other disguises. And this is a man who has spent his whole life
dealing with subterfuge and all this type of stuff.
Prigozhin to be traveling on his own name on the flight manifest of his company's jet in a predictable manner makes no sense. And the only thing I
can imagine is that, you know, we always tend to overestimate these people in Russia. Maybe he just, you know, got stupid and got comfortable and you
know, went on 10 trips, nothing happened. He thought, OK, I'm safe. And then they got him on the -- .
ASHER: Yes, that's another thing. I mean, there was a plane crashed back in 2019, where people thought that Prigozhin, people thought that he had died
and he emerged perfectly fine. And well and just in terms of, you know, what you talk about this is a man that had so many different passports.
This is a man who had body doubles. You point out there are wigs and masks and that sort of thing. And then for him to be on this plane with other
members of the senior leadership of Wagner just seems somewhat uncharacteristic.
[09:25:00]
That's where I'm wondering how cautious we should be in terms of just sort of ultimately believing that what the Kremlin is saying happened actually
happened?
BROWDER: Well, I agree everything that the Kremlin says you should assume is a lie. But the fact of the matter is that he's not emerged. I mean, it's
probably a 95 percent chance he's dead, but there's a 5 percent chance that he's going to pop up somewhere and thumb his nose at Putin and say, OK, I'm
coming to get you.
But, you know, we're in the world of total craziness here and conspiracy theory and so, who knows?
ASHER: And just in terms of how this is playing out in the Russian media, I mean, how is Vladimir Putin came out yesterday offering condolences to
Prigozhin's family, saying, you know, I think we could actually read into some of the words that Putin use.
He said that Prigozhin was a talented man, but he made very serious mistakes. How is all of this playing out in Russian media?
BROWDER: Well, I mean, this is just typical mafia talk the way he does it, you know, he kills Prigozhin, and then it can says condolences to his
family. I mean, it's just as this is like Godfather mafia stuff. And the words that he says, are just so sort of with double entendre, you know,
saying he was a very effective man, but he made mistakes and so on.
It's just all Putin speak, mafia speak. This is how he does stuff. And this is what Putin wants everybody to know is that on one hand, they deny having
any involvement in his killing, which they announced today through Putin's press spokesperson Peskov. And on the other hand, Putin wants to look
everybody else in the eye and say, this is what happens to traders and that's a --
ASHER: -- very clear message.
BROWDER: Yes --
ASHER: -- don't even think about the -- . All right Bill, we have to leave it at that, so, so good to have you on the program, so grateful. Bill
Browder, CEO and Co-Founder of Hermitage Capital Management, we appreciate it and Author of Freezing Order, thank you. Alright, stay with CNN coming
up. We are outside the Fulton County Courthouse with the latest on historic fourth arrest of Donald J. Trump, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:30:00]
ASHER: Welcome back. Back to our top story this hour, the fourth arrest and the first mug shot of Donald J. Trump, now released on a $200,000 bond from
Fulton County Jail in Georgia where he is charged with efforts to overturn the 2020 U.S. election. The Former U.S. President has returned to New
Jersey and is calling the criminal case against him a quote travesty of justice.
Zachary Cohen joins us live now outside the Fulton County Courthouse. So Fani Willis, the District Attorney here is trying to get a trial off the
ground and how she's going to manage to do it in about two months. Is that realistic, Zachary?
ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: It's an aggressive timeline for sure. And, you know, it remains to be seen if she can actually get that
going by October 23. That's the date that she wants to start this trial. And she wants to try all 19 of these defendants, Former President Donald
Trump and 18 others together.
Now we're starting to already sees, potentially some cracks in that plan. One of the defendants Ken Chesebro tried to request a speedy trial as it is
right here. But a judge has set his date for October 23, but none of the other defendants. So we're about to see how prosecutors navigate this
really complex.
And, frankly, historical case involving a Former President and 18 other individuals and including his Chief of Staff or Former Chief of Staff and
who we also saw get a mug shot at the Fulton County jail when he surrendered yesterday afternoon. It's a really data first yesterday, Donald
Trump coming to turn himself in, but we also have a lot more first to come as this case now as this trial plays out.
ASHER: And just how complicated is it? You know, there are so many co- defendants. Last time I checked, not all of them have actually turned themselves in, has that changed at this point?
COHEN: So as it stands as of this morning, 17 of the 19 defendants, including Trump himself have turned themselves in we do expect the other
two, to turn, themselves in before the noon today deadline. You know, but if that doesn't happen, obviously authorities their arrest warrant will
become active.
And authorities will search for them and try to bring them into custody. We but we do expect all 19 to eventually surrender. And then we can start the
next phase of this case, which is looking ahead to how a potential trial may play out and how it may play out involving the Former President and
Former government officials here in the U.S.?
ASHER: Right, Zachary Cohen, live for us there. Thank you so much. All right, back to Business News. Now U.S. stocks up and running for the final
session of the week a higher open across the board as we close out the Final Four trading week of August. My god, this year has gone by so
quickly.
Where stocks and today's session has a lot to do with what Fed Chair Jerome Powell has to say about the state of the U.S. economy and interest rates.
Powell speech before Global Central Bankers in Jackson Hole, Wyoming begins at less than half an hour from now.
Powell's comments are not expected to be as gloomy as last year thanks to a brighter inflation picture. But do not expect a mission accomplished moment
either. No one's going to be doing victory laps here. Many investors do anticipate additional Fed rate increase somewhere down the line.
Ken Rogoff joins us live now. He is Professor of Economics and Public Policy at Harvard University and also Former Chief Economist at the IMF,
Ken, thank you so much for being with us.
KEN ROGOFF, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS & PUBLIC POLICY AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
ASHER: I think what's really interesting about this is sort of trying to compare what Jerome Powell is going to be saying this time around compared
to last year, when you think about last year speech, it was very short, only about nine minutes. And he sort of made his dance very clear.
He said, look, we have to get inflation under control doesn't matter what it costs, there's going to be a lot of pain in terms of how consumers
experience the next sort of 6 to 12 months, but we have to do it because we don't want inflation to become entrenched in the economy.
Just walk us through how things have changed for the better this time around compared to last year.
ROGOFF: Well, let's walk back two years, not last year, but two years ago, he was much more optimistic in his tone, and thought that the inflation
would go away mostly on its own without aggressive interest rate hikes. That proved to be wrong. And he did an about face good for him the next
year.
And it's come out very well. I mean, I think there was overwhelming view that if you raised interest rates that fast something would break, you
would see a recession. We haven't in fact growth, particularly in the labor markets still phenomenal. Inflation still elevated.
[09:35:00]
It's the headline it's 3 percent but I think you know looking deeper it's probably more in the 4 percent plus range. So he's certainly not going to
say mission accomplished. But I think it's going to be very hard for him to resist taking a little bit of a victory lap here because everyone said, you
know, things were going to be a disaster and they haven't been.
ASHER: So then why haven't they been a disaster? As you point out, when you raise interest rates consistently, there are usually nasty side effects
that come with that. But we haven't seen that this time around why?
ROGOFF: Most of the answer is we don't know, after the pandemic, a lot of things have been strange people rethinking their lives, consumers behaving
differently, people working from home, and economists haven't sorted it out. I do think a piece of it, though, is that the underlying interest rate
that would keep the economy at a stable growth rate, with low inflation is much higher now than it was a few years ago.
Remember, we had this period of almost a decade where interest rates were basically zero. And it was unprecedented, and eventually up and down the
line. And I think that's not the case anymore. And I suspect, one of the things, Powell, will emphasize is yes, eventually we're going to cut
interest rates, but don't assume they're going to go back to what you had gotten used to.
ASHER: And just looking ahead, post this speech when it actually comes to interest rate hikes and obviously the last time around, we got a pause. Are
you anticipating a pause next time around or another 25 basis point hike?
ROGOFF: Well, I think if things go the way they're going now, it'll be a pause. They had thought just at the end of June, that they were going to
hike again in September that they'd be hiking, they strongly indicated that but the data had been better, particularly on inflation than they thought.
And I think more of the question in this speech, especially, is not what are we doing in September? But what are we doing over the long haul? What's
our vision, because remember why it matters. It's not just for the overnight interest rates for mortgage rates. That's a big deal.
ASHER: Right.
ROGOFF: People borrowing for 30 years. And everybody's trying to get a grip on what's next, not just what's in September.
ASHER: Going back to one of the things you touched on earlier, just this idea that things are so much better than what the Fed had been anticipating
this time last year, when Jerome Powell gave Jackson Hole speech in 2022. You know, we talked about the fact that we've avoided the recession that
people had feared, or the pain that Jerome Powell had talked about. Do you think that things could still turned sour? Or is the worst of it,
basically, behind us at this point?
ROGOFF: Well, a little bit depends on what they decide to do. So they've gotten inflation down, I want to say into the 3.5, 4 ranges and the pain
hasn't come yet. A question they have to decide is how fast do they want to bring it down to their target, which is ostensibly too?
And I think if they were to try to do that fast, as you said, raise interest rates in September or raise them again in November. Well, I do
think that would make a big difference. I think it is still fragile. It is amazing. We haven't had more problems.
ASHER: Right.
ROGOFF: But I suspect what Powell, will signal are tough. We're going to get it down to 2 percent, without kind of trying to indicate that we're
doing it fast that we're going to be willing to take our time that would make sense to me. But at the same time saying, look, it's gotten better
than everyone was calling us.
ASHER: Yes, the Fed made some mistakes in the past just in terms of believing that inflation was going to be transitory post pandemic, but this
is one aspect that they've really gotten right, just this idea of being able to raise interest rates without the sort of nasty side effects that
most people would be anticipating. Ken Rogoff, live for us there.
ROGOFF: No --
ASHER: -- go ahead.
ROGOFF: -- they've got lucky.
ASHER: -- they've got lucky. Most people don't really know why it's turned out this way. But I'm sure Jerome Powell will take it. Ken Rogoff, live for
us there.
ROGOFF: Thank you.
ASHER: Thank you so much. We appreciate it. All right, still to come here on "First Move", defiant in the face of outrage. Spain's Football Chief
gives a new statement about the kissing scandal at the Women's World Cup. All details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:40:00]
ASHER: In the past hour or so Spain's Football Chief has insisted that he will not resign despite facing fierce criticism. There's been outrage after
a video showed Luis Rubiales forcibly kissing a player on the lips following World Cup victory last week Spain's World Cup victory last week.
FIFA has opened disciplinary proceedings against Rubiales, who, they say may have violated the rules that deal with offensive behavior. Rubiales
says that he will fight this to the end. And he has lashed out at what he calls "Fake Feminism". Andy Scholes has the story, so, Andy with the tide
of public opinion really against him. How long can he realistically hold on for?
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: We will see, Zain. I mean, this is kind of a surprise what happened today. You know, there were multiple
reports over the last 24 hours that Luis Rubiales he was just going to step down as the Head of Spain soccer but that certainly did not happen this
morning.
He actually doubled down on his stance Rubiales claiming that that kiss during the World Cup Trophy celebration was mutual, despite the player Jr.
Mostly saying yes, she didn't like it. She didn't expect it. And Rubiales while speaking at that extraordinary General Assembly on Friday, he says
he's going to fight this to the end calling what was happening to him unjust campaigns and fake feminism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUIS RUBIALES, SPANISH FOOTBALL PRESIDENT: It was spontaneous, mutual you for it. And with consent, which is the key. This is the key to all the
criticism of all the campaign which has been mounted in this country that it was without consent. No, it was with consent.
I said a small peck and she said OK, then the peck happened during all of the celebration, with her patting me on the side a few times, and then
excusing herself, with one more hand on the side, and going off laughing. That's the whole sequence. That the whole world understood that the whole
world thought was an anecdote. And above all, she says was an anecdote, and nothing more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHOLES: Now Rubiales got multiple rounds of applause during his speech actually got a standing ovation at the end from some in attendance and
including some women, but so many have continued to speak out calling for Rubiales to be fired. Spanish soccer star Hector Bellerin, posting on
Instagram, it's a genuine embarrassment what's happening.
He went on to say, the narcissist never thinks he's made a mistake. He's capable of lying, manipulating the truth and converting the victim into the
perpetrator with the aim of maintaining his power over others. You know, so Zain, the question is, you know what happens next? Well, the Sports
Minister in Spain is expected to hold a press conference at 11 am, Eastern this morning.
[09:45:00]
We'll find out you know, if they put plan on taking those next steps to remove them but with him not going voluntary now it becomes a process.
ASHER: Alright! Andy Scholes, we'll see what happens live for us there. Thank you so much. All right still to come, it is morning here in New York.
But it's always wine o'clock somewhere and that somewhere could soon be in Sweden. Find out why, next?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, when you think of wine producing nations, you might think of the Sun soaked vineyards of Italy, France or even South Africa, perhaps
not really the Northern European landscape of Scandinavia. But as global temperatures rise because of climate change, some winemakers are using the
opportunity to grow their industry.
Further that you're looking at some of the wines made by Blaxsta, a vineyard and restaurant in Sweden which uses new varieties of grapes
adapted to the country's climate. Goran Amnegard is Blaxsta's owner, and joins us live now. Goran, thank you so much for being with us, so you're in
your car, you're actually on your vineyard in Sweden, but you're in your car because it's raining.
GORAN AMNEGARD, OWNER OF BLAXSTA VINEYARD AND RESTAURANT: Yes.
ASHER: Yes --
AMNEGARD: Yes.
ASHER: Yes -- so happy to talk to you. Just talk to us a bit more about how climate change is affecting the winemaking industry in Sweden, because when
a lot of us think of where wines come from, of course, we think of France, we think of Italy, we think of Spain. I mentioned South Africa as well. We
don't necessarily think of Sweden, we don't think of Scandinavia. How might that be changing?
AMNEGARD: Well, you know, I was one of the -- here. When I started 23 years ago, I used to live in Toronto, went back from Toronto to Sweden, started
vineyard and growing things like Mirlo, Chardonnay, Vidal making ice wine, but you know, what people forgot is that we have 25 percent more daylight
hours during growing season.
So because we're not you know, and in the growing season, you know, may September and that's so amazing. And the grades develop perfectly. I've
been very fortunate. I got gold International Mine Gold Challenge four times actually. And it's so much the nature. Yes, warming, global warming.
Yes, maybe part of the equation. But there's so much more to it, you know, it's just not that a little bit warmer. Yes, it is, absolutely. And then
you can discuss to the end of the day, or the reason for it, but daylight situation and then things like that it's also part of the equation.
[09:50:00]
ASHER: So if Sweden is emerging as a sort of young winemaker country, the question then becomes how does it sort of promote that to sort of wine
consumers around the world? It's one thing to sort of become a young winemaking country. It's another thing to sort of convince consumers that
you are there who are traditionally used to wines coming from other countries.
AMNEGARD: I export most of my wines, even to Asia, but Europe, you know, it's still such a small production, and little there is made, seems to be
consumed and stay in the country. As it grows bigger, there will be quantities for exports. So that's why most people outside the country here
haven't been exposed to it. I produce ice wine. The funny thing is that people in Sweden don't drink ice wine, but the rest of the world.
ASHER: OK.
AMNEGARD: I'm very, very happy with it. It's kind of -- . So yes, I'm a little bit of an exception here, because I export my wine. But there are a
few others in the country. And it's growing. I mean, I think I had, my license is 0001. So I was the first licensed winery here in Sweden.
ASHER: Wow!
AMNEGARD: I think they're up to 30, 34 or 35 by now. But you know -- .
ASHER: You are a trailblazer.
AMNEGARD: This --
ASHER: And so Goran, how much government support is there? I mean, this is a young industry. You know, normally if there are young industries that are
growing, there will be some government support to help get that industry off the ground. Is there anything like that in Sweden, just in terms of the
government being behind you?
AMNEGARD: Well, I got to tell you a funny story. I mean, this municipality, where I am, they had a few years ago, the Chairman of the municipality, he
was alcoholic, so they should banned all kinds of alcohol. It was even such an issue for me to have signed on at road saying winery because they
consider we've been promoting alcoholism.
I managed in the end to get the sign for restaurant, hotel and winery. But it was kind of a little bit of a no, we have a monopoly in this country. So
consumer has to go to specific state owned stores to buy alcohol of any kind via wine and distilled. So it's a little bit of an awkward, little bit
the same as in Ontario, sort of --
ASHER: So it's a completely different setup. But, Goran, I'm out of time. I'm so sorry, but wish you the best of luck.
AMNEGARD: Yes.
ASHER: I hope it stops raining soon.
AMNEGARD: Yes --
ASHER: And it's still -- very busy today
AMNEGARD: Yes --
ASHER: And that you wanted to do a live show from outside on your vineyard while you're working. But we're so grateful to have you on all the best.
AMNEGARD: Tell your viewers to try Swedish wine. All right, thanks.
ASHER: Thank you, Goran Amnegard, live for us, thank you. All right, there is a new K-Pop band on the scene in South Korea, but this group has a
twist. None of the members are actually Korean. Paula Hancocks has more from Seoul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Water bomb 2023, a K-Pop concert in the heart of Seoul, where staying dry is not an option. And a
key gig for Blackswan, a K-Pop band with no Korean members. They're not the first to try it. But Blackswan are hoping they will be the act to break
through.
HANCOCKS: Some of the obvious question, you're a K-Pop group. There's no K there's no Korean does it matter?
FATOU, MEMBER OF BLACKSWAN: Actually, there's K because we think in Korean and K-Pop is Korean pop. So as long as the language is there, it is still
K-Pop.
HANCOCKS (voice-over): Singing in Korean Black Swan members say they also draw on influences from each of their cultures. Their recent song Karma was
filmed in India where band member Sriya is from the music video MV has been viewed over 5 million times on YouTube.
SRIYA, MEMBER OF BLACKSWAN: It has been really, really great because it's a first ever MV shooter in India. And also it shows like a proper Indian
culture, Indian dresses outfit and then the dance.
HANCOCKS (voice-over): Blackswan members are also from Brazil, Senegal and the United States, a global band for a global movement, the band says.
FATOU: And if they see us, like we're all different color, they feel different backgrounds, cultures, and if they see us achieve it, it's going
to put more fire underneath behind them.
[09:55:00]
HANCOCKS (voice-over): One difference, the members did not start as young teenagers undergoing brutal K-Pop training as other young hopefuls do. Two
members only signed up two years ago.
YOON DEUNG-RYONG, CEO OF DR MANAGEMENT: They're usually four to five years of training period as they need to learn the language, dance moves,
singing, even though they're being trained within the K-Pop system. We need to respect the cultures of these members and we can't just tell them what
to do.
HANCOCKS (voice-over): The group says training was still tough, but what about the Korean public reaction to this different brand of K-Pop?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are other famous bands such as Twice and IZ*ONE who are considered K-Pop bands even though they have foreign members from
Japan and elsewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's more like a mindset for me like K-Pop, it's not just because you're Korean and making music in South Korea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As there are no Koreans in the group, I've always looked at the group with doubts about them being K-Pop although they
technically are.
HANCOCKS (voice-over): A number of non-Korean K-Pop groups have emerged over recent years.
LEE GYU-TAG, ASSOCIATED PROFESSOR OF CULTURAL STUDIES AT GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY KOREA: I believe there may be a possibility to have, let's say,
American K-Pop British K-Pop or Japanese K-Pop. Why not? But it may also make K-Pop lose their Pacific identity is K-Pop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be unique! Hello this is Blackswan!
HANCOCKS (voice-over): Paula Hancocks, CNN Seoul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: And that is it for the show. "Connect the World" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
