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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Biden congratulates Netanyahu for Sinwar's Death; Israel Confirms Sinwar's Death in Gaza; Netanyahu: The War with Hamas "Is Not Over Yet"; Hostages Families Held Protests in Tel Aviv; One Direction Comments on Liam Payne's Death; Early Voting in North Carolina; Harris' Pitch to Republicans; Delivery Drivers in China Deal with Competition and Lower pay. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 17, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, what is going to happen here over the course of the next hour is really unclear. And the
U.S. Supreme Court, just moments ago, also denied Robert Robertson's appeals to halt this execution as well. Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, CNN's Ed Lavandera, thank you so much for that update. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The
Situation Room. I will see you tomorrow.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: Welcome to "First Move." I'm Julia Chatterley. And we begin with breaking news. President Joe Biden
congratulating Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu following the death of the Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar.
Israel says he was killed in Rafah in Southern Gaza on Wednesday with three others. The IDF says their troops came under fire and they responded with a
tank.
We do have an image that appears to show Sinwar's body. I do want to warn you, the image is graphic. Israel considered Sinwar to be the, quote,
"mastermind" behind last year's October 7th attacks. Prime Minister Netanyahu says the killing marks, quote, "the beginning of the day after
Hamas, but added the task is not yet complete.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The mass murderer who murdered thousands of Israelis and kidnapped hundreds of our
citizens was eliminated today by our heroic soldiers. I call on everyone who hold our hostages -- I call on whoever lays down his weapon and return
our hostages, we will allow him to go out and leave. And in the same way I say, whoever harm our hostages, blood on his hand, we will reckon with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, U.S. intelligence officials are trying to determine who will replace Sinwar and, crucially, what this then means for ceasefire
negotiations and the remaining hostages in Gaza. The State Department says it's hoping Sinwar's successor will pursue a different path. U.S. Vice
President Kamala Harris said his death posed an opportunity to end the conflict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Israel has a right to defend itself, and the threat Hamas poses
to Israel must be eliminated. Today, there is clear progress toward that goal. Hamas is decimated, and its leadership is eliminated. This moment
gives us an opportunity to finally end the war in Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: A little earlier, the IDF's chief spokesperson, Daniel Hagari, described Sinwar's last moments while releasing a video they say shows
Sinwar with an injured hand. Just take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESPERSON (through translator): Yesterday night, three terrorists have been identified as escaping, and they were
shot. Yahya Sinwar escaped alone to one of the buildings. Our forces scanned with a drone. Yahya Sinwar was shot in his hand from the shooting.
He's seen here in his last moment. He threw wood into the drone and we saw him. We identified him as a terrorist. And it was with a weapon with -- and
40,000 shekels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Nic Robertson looks back at Sinwar's rise to power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Feared and fettered at home in Gaza. Universally reviled by Israelis. Hamas Chief
Yahya Sinwar became the Jewish state's enemy number one. Dubbed by the IDF a dead man walking, university educated Sinwar persistently outsmarted his
enemies.
Palestinian Esmat Mansour spent years in Israeli jail with Sinwar.
ESMAT MANSOUR, FORMER PALESTINIAN PRISONER (through translator): Sinwar was a cultured person, knowledgeable. He cooperated with other factions and
even with the administration of the prison.
EHUD YAARI, ISRAELI JOURNALIST: When I was talking to him, he always insisted. that we speak Hebrew and not Arabic.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Israeli journalist Ehud Yaari interviewed Sinwar four times during the terror leader's 22 years in jail, convicted of
killing two Israelis and four suspect Palestinian informers.
YAARI: Sinwar is a guy who is -- who inspires fear.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Sinwar ran Hamas' feared internal intelligence. Even inside jail, he reportedly continued silencing collaborators
violently.
MANSOUR (through translator): He's very careful and helpful with his soldiers, but he's also a cruel person. Not violent, but he's capable of
cruelty.
[18:05:00]
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Sinwar's release in 2011 was seminal. Not just allowing his fast track to Hamas' top political post in Gaza by 2017, but
seemingly sowing the seeds for October 7th.
His freedom, along with more than a thousand other Palestinian prisoners, came in exchange for just one IDF soldier, Gilad Shalit, who'd been taken
hostage five years earlier. Sinwar, better than most, understood the power of IDF hostages.
MANSOUR (through translator): His brother was the one who guarded Shalit. This gave him more power in prison.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Sinwar called the exchange for his freedom one of the biggest strategic moments in the history of our cause. His cause was
reversing Israel's creation in 1948.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Let's discuss this further with former CIA Director and retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus. He's the author of The New York
Times bestseller, "Conflict: The Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Gaza."
General Petraeus, fantastic to have you on the show, sir. We have to assume, surely, at this stage, if we speak about Hamas, first and foremost,
that the power structure is far less centralized today than it was pre- October the 7th. So, with that in mind, how big a blow is this, whether it's operationally, politically or militarily to Hamas?
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.), FORMER CIA DIRECTOR, CHAIRMAN, KKR GLOBAL INSTITUTE AND AUTHOR, "CONFLICT": I think it's an enormous blow. It's akin
to the killing of the Islamic State leader at the height of the caliphate that was established in Northeastern Syria and Northern Iraq, who was also
the overall leader.
Keep in mind that Sinwar became the political leader as well as the military leader. So, he was all of Hamas' leadership in one. And obviously
this killing of him and of the other leaders along the way and the uncertainty about who will lead after him injects a tremendous amount of
uncertainty.
By the way, also, how do you negotiate with a leadership that has been decapitated and is undoubtedly very decentralized at this moment in time?
And by the way, they don't want to touch a device. Their command-and- control communications is very much reduced in capability.
But that said, there are still tens of thousands of Hamas extremists in Gaza, along with remnants of Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Unless Israel goes
in and actually secures, actually clears and holds areas and then rebuilds them, they won't be able to provide a better future for the Palestinian
people. And that has significant consequences for the course of this particular campaign against this murderous group led by Sinwar.
CHATTERLEY: This is such a vital point, because I think much of the discussion over the past eight hours or so is focused on perhaps the
opportunity this presents to discuss a ceasefire or to restart those negotiations, to get back the remaining hostages. Netanyahu made it very
clear today that the work, as far as Hamas is concerned, isn't done.
He hasn't yet articulated what life without Hamas would look like for the Palestinian people, nor articulated why it should be better. This has to be
a crucial part of whatever the immediate future looks like, never mind that the sort of medium to longer-term, are we even there yet? And is this a
potential catalyst in your mind?
PETRAEUS: This is an opportunity without question. And I think it is the moment which Prime Minister Netanyahu should announce a plan for the future
of Gaza. Israel now controls all of the borders of Gaza. They've taken control rightly of the southern border between Gaza and the Sinai and the
tunnels that ran underneath in Rafah Crossing that ran through it.
The conduits for the military materiel and ammunition weapon systems that used to flow in and enable Hamas to do all that they have and to build the
350 miles worth of subterranean infrastructure that is all controlled now. But that doesn't keep Hamas from reconstituting its people as much pressure
as they are under.
Israel is essentially conducting raids into Gaza, killing Hamas and PIJ, Palestinian Islamic Jihad Extremists, destroying their infrastructure and
so forth. But there's no security in Gaza. The governance, such as it is, is criminal entities. It is remnants of Hamas, remnants of Palestinian
Islamic Jihad.
And I think it's time for Israel to recognize that if security is not established, there's no way that they can provide humanitarian assistance
in an organized fashion, get people back into at least the areas of their homes and temporary dwellings, begin reconstruction, bring in Palestinian
security forces trained by the Americans in Jordan, bring in Arab forces that would be willing to come in if Hamas is truly destroyed.
[18:10:00]
Right now, they're dramatically significantly degraded. Leadership structure is in disarray, but they're not destroyed. And unless they follow
through, and do really what we did during the surge in Iraq, really, which was clear, hold, build. You create gated communities within populated
areas, 12 or so in Fallujah alone, and then you can get the extremists out, as we did with al Qaeda and the Sunni insurgents, and you keep them out.
You get biometric ID cards to everyone there. You allow them in the areas where their homes were. And again, you start the process of the day after,
the post-conflict phase, where ideally you could get to a situation where Hamas is completely gone. They have no influence. They're not able to
recruit and to reconstitute and you could have Palestinians and Israelis living side by side in peace.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, I think there will be Palestinians who, as much as they shudder at what they've been through over the past year or so, will be
shuddering at the prospect of what that future, at least in the short term, looks like as well, General Petraeus.
The Arab nations in the region have made it very clear -- go on.
PETRAEUS: I mean, it's hard to imagine anything worse than what they're experiencing right now.
CHATTERLEY: But it requires trust to get there. I was just going to say that the Arab nations have made it very clear that they're not going to, I
think the quote was, ride in on Israeli tanks and be part of this solution.
PETRAEUS: Exactly.
CHATTERLEY: What can the United States and the allies do now to facilitate the trust required to get us to that point? And at least in the short-term,
perhaps the hostage release and the ceasefire that we're hoping for?
PETRAEUS: Well, I don't frankly see great opportunity for a hostage release. There could be some modest release of hostages in return for a
huge number of Hamas detainees, which has been the pattern so far.
Also, is there even centralized control of the detainees anymore? Can they actually communicate with who holds the detainees? And certainly, they're
not going to give up the final tranche of detainees. That's their only leverage. And what they want are conditions that are not -- can't be
granted by Israel, which would be that Israelis leave, completely stay out, and you have a ceasefire, which would allow the remnants of Hamas, of
course, to reconstitute and exercise sway over the territory once again.
So, again, I think it's really incumbent to lay out how it is that security will be achieved for the first time since this all began and how better
conditions for the Palestinian people can breathe for bride. And by the way, trust isn't given, it's earned. And we had to earn this when we moved
to Fallujah Ramadi Bakuba. Remember how difficult those areas were prior to getting al Qaeda out of them.
And again, they're certainly not going to embrace the Israelis as they come in, but as they see a much, much better life than this terrible existence
they have right now. I mean, their concern is just not to starve. Their concern is survival, and this has to be provided to them. And then, you
will see Arabs come in, not just with money, but probably with soldiers as well.
Certainly, we could be training Palestinian security forces now so that when this moment arrives they can be immediately injected into this under
supervision of Israelis, by the way, or -- and/or some American assistance.
But I think a path forward, a vision for Gaza needs to be provided at this moment. And the killing of Sinwar could be the catalyst that allows Prime
Minister Netanyahu to do it, although, I'm not that confident, given the coalition that he has to keep together, that -- coming.
CHATTERLEY: And a vital point you make about trust being earned and hope, I think, at this moment being a crucial part of what needs to be provided
in the -- in Gaza. Can I ask very quickly, to what extent, if at all, you think this impacts the Israel's impending response to Iran?
PETRAEUS: Well, I think this is going to be a very substantial response. I think it needs to be. It will be focused on military related targets,
infrastructures, storage locations, the production facilities, presumably that make the missiles that have been shot at Israel and so on.
And I think once this new THAAD battery, Terminal High Altitude Area Defense, system is established in Israel, they'll have the confidence to do
this, noting that there were a few missiles that got through from Iran this last time out of the 180, most of which were knocked down. But all you need
is one or two of those to hit a populated area and you can have a serious casualty event.
So, augmenting their defenses with this very capable U.S. provided battery, I think is essential. And when that's in position, I suspect that you're
going to see the devastating attacks conducted by Israel. Then the question is, does Iran realize that this is going seriously wrong for them and it's
time for them to -- not to escalate further or the damage will be even greater.
[18:15:00]
CHATTERLEY: The probability of that, General Petraeus?
PETRAEUS: It's very difficult to say. I'm not sure that I would say it's the base case. I think there are major arguments going on in Tehran between
the hardliners and the less hardliners. There's no moderates there, of course, but there are those who are realistic enough to recognize that the
trajectory in which this is going, it could be ruinous for Iran. It's not going to take down the regime, but it can do increasing damage to their
structure, their infrastructure, their military capacity. And eventually, if this continues, then you might see attacks on the energy facilities as
well.
CHATTERLEY: Former CIA director and retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus, sir, thank you for your wisdom. Great to have you on the show.
PETRAEUS: Good to be with you, Julia. Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back on once more a recap of our top story today. The death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar. The Israeli Defense Forces saying he
was killed on Wednesday following a yearlong pursuit. Sinwar's death raises questions about who will succeed him and what this means for the stalled
ceasefire negotiations and potential hostage release.
Nic Robertson joins us now. Nic, good to have you with us. This is a war being fought on multiple levels. It doesn't just rely on one individual.
Sinwar will likely be replaced. But do you view this as a viable opportunity to push forward now with those ceasefire negotiations and a
potential hostage release?
ROBERTSON: It's an opportunity because it's a break point. It's a moment where something significant has changed. The leader of the group has been
killed and it was always -- he was always singled out as being the one who was holding up the talks. So, there's that.
But I think, look, the more pressing and bigger issue here is where precisely does Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu feel that he is in the
bigger effort here, which is against Iran and Iran's use of Hamas as a proxy and Hezbollah as a proxy. So, I don't think, you know, that he is
necessarily going to be rushing to sort of change the complete dynamic with Hamas and see who the new leader is and offer them a deal that wasn't on
the table for Sinwar. And I'm not sure that a new Hamas leadership is going to take anything that Sinwar had rejected.
[18:20:00]
I mean, it does depend on who emerges as the leader of Hamas. And if it's his brother, Mohammed Sinwar, who took over as the sort of military
commander in the summer when the last military commander was killed in an Israeli airstrike, he's -- the pair of them have been joined at the hip.
They grew up together in Hamas. They went up its ranks. His brother was absolutely important and vital for getting him released from Israeli jail.
His brother was the one who was in charge of holding the Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, hostage for five years and used him as a bargaining chip to
get his brother out.
They are peas in a pod. And if he was to take over from Yahya Sinwar, then it's likely that not much would change. It's possible that the Qataris
would really try to use their influence and push for a more moderate figure, even an exiled Hamas figure. You know, the person that would spring
to mind is Khalid Mishal, Hamas leader who lives in Qatar -- a former Hamas leader, I should say, that lives in Qatar. But it's not clear that the
Hamas rank and file in Gaza would take that.
So, you know, it's really hard to see how the -- how all the issues that were outside of this or that encompass the war at the moment, how any of
those issues have fundamentally changed other than the current leader of Hamas, who had become, you know, the focus of everyone's attention for what
Hamas did on October the 7th, but not the only person involved in it, how removing that one person will make all the difference. You know, I think
it's going to be a much more gradual process.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. A truly momentous moment, but the fallout unclear for now. Nic Robertson, good to have you with us. Thank you.
Now, there are 109 remaining hostages in Gaza. Their families held noisy protests in Tel Aviv today. Among those taken was Oded Lifshitz. He's seen
here with his daughter. He and his wife were abducted from the near Nir Oz kibbutz in -- on October 7th. His wife was later freed.
And we're now joined by Daniel Lifshitz, who is his grandson. Daniel, good to have you on the show with us. How are you feeling today hearing the news
that one of the perceived architects of an event that so profoundly impacted your family, and I'm sure many people that you knew was killed?
DANIEL LIFSHITZ, GRANDSON OF HOSTAGE ODED LIFSHITZ: So, hi, Julia. You know, we feel like justice has been served with the elimination of the
terrorist and murderer Yahya Sinwar. I mean, knowing that as well, he was as well next to those six hostages that's been executed, including Hersh
Goldberg and knowing that he's not among us anymore, it's a good sign for the region, it's a good sign for the Humanity of the world. And then, I
hope it's going to bring us into new opportunities in the negotiations.
CHATTERLEY: Do you believe that it will do that? As you said, you hope, but do you believe that actually this might be a catalyst to push forward
now with ceasefire negotiations and get the hostages back home, of course, including your grandfather?
LIFSHITZ: You know, we have been hearing that Yahya Sinwar was a major obstacle to a deal for monsters. Now, that this obstacle has been removed,
we urge all involved parties, you know, to work together to an immediate agreement to bring everyone home. I mean, I think that there is many deals
that are on the table and, I mean, that the American government should take a lead here now and make sure that there will not be anyone too radical as
well with the help of the Qataris.
But in the moment that there is, like, kind of, you know, a small, small crack to go in, now is the time. I mean, the next 24 hours I believe are
going to be crucial. Nobody's going -- knowing what's going to be, what's going to happen. Maybe it's Khaled Mashal stay, maybe the brother of Yahya
Sinwar. But I do believe that we have to take advantage on Sinwar's death and bring us all closer to a deal that, in the end, will end the war and
bring all the hostages back home.
CHATTERLEY: Your prime minister said today that evil has suffered a blow, but the work is not yet complete. Do you agree with the government's
approach to continue to fight, whether it's Hamas or Hezbollah, or would you urge the government at this stage to engage? Further in those ceasefire
negotiations and simply get the hostages home?
I'm sort of interested in what you said about the United States' role in this too. Would you like the United States to also be adding pressure to
the government to end the fighting?
[18:25:00]
LIFSHITZ: So, I do believe both scenes are very different. You know, we have the issue and the problems in Lebanon and of course, we have to make
sure that there will not be a ceasefire in Lebanon without a ceasefire in Gaza and a hostage deal. But it's possible to make a hostage deal in Gaza
and release the hostages and end the war in Gaza without the connection to Lebanon.
So, I do believe that in most of the words of what I heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu today was about how it's now -- the first priority is to
bring back their hostages home.
What I do ask from the U.S. government is not to focus on the current proposal of Biden, which we don't see any movement since the end of May.
So, I understand that, you know, as much as we're getting closer to the elections, it's getting harder and harder, but now from -- it's like from
out of the blue, you know, because it was not planned, it was out of the blue, suddenly eliminating Sinwar.
So, it's -- I don't know. It's like God -- you know, God will that now, before the elections, they will make -- bring all the efforts back to Gaza,
the engine is back to Gaza after it was only in Iran and Lebanon. So, that chance has to be taken now.
CHATTERLEY: Daniel, very quickly, how is your family doing? How is your grandmother doing? Because I remember reading when she was first released,
that she'd confronted -- despite being ill, despite losing lots of weight, she'd confronted one of the Hamas leaders in a tunnel and basically told
him off for what happened. So, she's a powerful woman. How's she doing?
LIFSHITZ: You know, she's -- she recovered physically. And mentally, I believe today, she feels that maybe we are getting closer. I hope so.
Because mentally, for her, she's still in the tunnel, think she will have all the 101 hostages back today. Actually, she's in the two days where she
took a break. She went to a hotel to rest her mind. And suddenly, this news came. We feel that we have no real rest for anything.
But my grandmother, she's recovering. She's a strong woman and she's not afraid to say what she think. And I really hope that she can see everyone
back home that will make the best closure for her and she came back to be a happy person.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, we pray they're back together incredibly soon. Daniel, thank you so much for your time. Thoughts with you and your family. Daniel
Lifshitz there.
LIFSHITZ: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." For the first time, former members of One Direction are commenting about the tragic death of bandmate
Liam Payne. The 31-year-old died Wednesday after falling from the third- floor balcony of a Buenos Aires hotel. In a statement posted on Instagram, the band wrote, in part, we're completely devastated by the news of Liam's
passing. In time, and when everyone is able to, there will be more to say. But for now, we'll take some time to grieve and process the loss of our
brother, who we loved dearly. The memories we shared with him will be treasured forever. We love you, Liam.
As a teenager, Liam Payne became an overnight sensation along with his One Direction bandmates. And Max Foster looks back at his life and his career.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR (voice-over): A tragic end to a life cut short. British singer Liam Payne died on Wednesday after
falling from a third-floor balcony at a Buenos Aires hotel, according to police. At 31 years old, he'd spent half of his life as a pop music
superstar after being plucked from obscurity by music mogul Simon Cowell.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
FOSTER (voice-over): Just 16 when he became a founding member of the boy band One Direction, a product of Cal's reality TV show, The X Factor.
He found near unrivaled global stardom with One Direction bandmates, Niall Horan, Zayn Malik, Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson. We're heartbroken by
the sad passing of Liam Payne. He was immensely talented, and as part of One Direction, Liam will leave a lasting legacy on the music industry and
fans around the world, The X Factor said in one of the first tributes shared on Thursday.
From his humble beginnings, Payne ended up epitomizing the dreams of stardom for the social media generation.
LIAM PAYNE, FORMER SINGER, ONE DIRECTION: When you go outside and there's people screaming and running down the street after your car and stuff -- I
don't want to touch you. No, when people are running after your car and stuff, it's a bit like -- that's a bit mental for us to adjust to as it
were.
FOSTER (voice-over): Together, One Direction sold more than 70 million records. They toured the world and they built a legion of devoted fans.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
FOSTER (voice-over): The band's biggest hit, "What Makes You Beautiful," became an anthem of early Gen Z culture. One Direction split up in 2015.
And they went on to solo careers. In 2017, Payne became a father to Bear Grey Payne, with then girlfriend Cheryl Tweedy, a former judge on The X
Factor U.K.
Less than three years later, Payne released his first solo album, "LP1." Payne also began to open up about the weight of fame and his mental health
struggles.
PAYNE: But there's times where that that level of loneliness and people getting into you every day, getting into you every day, like I say, just --
I'd be so often, you're like, when will this end? You know, and then that's almost nearly killed me a couple of times.
FOSTER (voice-over): He spoke publicly about his issues with substance abuse.
PAYNE: I was like, I need to fix myself.
FOSTER (voice-over): Authorities are now investigating the circumstances of Payne's death. Staff at the Buenos Aires hotel had requested urgent
police assistance shortly before Payne fell. That's according to a 911 call obtained by CNN's local affiliate Todo Noticias.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): What's going on in the location, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We have a host who is overwhelmed with drugs and alcohol, and well, even when he's aware, he breaks things
up. He is tearing the whole room apart.
[18:35:00]
FOSTER (voice-over): Millions of his fans are now in shock as the music world grapples with losing another star far too young.
Max Foster, CNN London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And we're also getting more information about Payne's death. Argentina's public prosecutor's office says the 31-year-old musician was
alone when he fell to his death from the hotel balcony, and that he may not have been fully conscious at the time.
CNN en Espaniol Reporter Dario Klein is in Buenos Aires for us and joins us now. Dario, I know you've been talking to fans all throughout the day that
are there paying their respects. What have they been telling you?
DARIO KLEIN, CNN EN ESPANIOL REPORTER: Well, they are shocked. They are trying to find answers. But most of it, they are trying to comfort
themselves. They are here singing their songs putting candles just trying to be together, trying to be together in that -- this terrible time, crying
and hugging themselves.
Most of these people -- most of these young people is from Argentina. They are from the generation -- Gen Z, you know, that generation that started to
communicate themselves with social -- through social networks. And that's why One Direction was so popular all around the world. And here we have
Argentinians, but also, we have people from New Zealand. What's your name?
JESSIE: My name is Jessie.
KLEIN: And how do you feel, how did you find out? Why are you here now?
JESSIE: I found out through someone sending me a post on Instagram and it's just really sad. Can't quite believe it to be honest. Yes.
KLEIN: Yes, that's the situation. Nobody can believe, everybody's trying to understand what happened. The same as the justice -- the same as the
prosecutor's office. Even he's companions of the band, the One Direction band, they have a statement today. And as Liam said in his last song, he
says, I am broken too. That's one part of his letter. So, he probably wasn't passing the best time and these people here isn't either. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think the shock, the heartbreak, very clear to see on people's faces around you and behind you. Dario, great to have you with us.
Thank you. Dario Klein there in Buenos Aires.
All right. Let's talk more about this. Joe Levy is a contributing editor for Rolling Stone and he joins us now. Joe, what, you know, I think makes
this tragedy all the more poignant is that the hotel staff, and what we're learning now about the events of what took place, is that they recognized
he was in great distress, that perhaps the room he was staying in might be dangerous for him because it had a balcony, but they just didn't manage to
prevent the tragedy happening that took place.
JOE LEVY, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ROLLING STONE: No, what we've heard in that 911 call is that the hotel staff feared for Liam's safety. It's not
necessarily their responsibility to intervene, but they turned to those whose responsibility it would be.
In one sense, this is an all too familiar scene, a pop star alone in a hotel, perhaps turning to alcohol or other substances, but also inflicting
a little damage on the hotel room. That's one thing we've learned from that 911 call. And that's a familiar story.
What happened next and what ultimately happened, the tragedy of what happened, well, it's a little too familiar, but it is not the way things
usually go. And it's devastatingly sad. Devastatingly sad because this 31- year-old man leaves behind a seven-year-old child and, as we were hearing earlier, has been famous for more than half his life and globally famous.
This is a huge loss for a very engaged generation of pop fans.
CHATTERLEY: And I think what's also clear is that he himself was very open, and we saw a bit of that in Max's report, about his struggles in the
past with addiction, with mental health, with bullying online, with some abuse. It sort of highlights the fact that you can be incredibly famous,
successful, wealthy, beautiful, but in the end, you're still human and you still have a human heart and you can still really struggle and feel very
alone at times.
[18:40:00]
LEVY: That is all too true. We're talking about someone who, as a child, struggled with health issues. He had kidney problems. At 12 years old, took
up boxing because of bullying he had suffered at school. So, in some sense what he talked about the bullying he felt online once he was an adult and a
star, the sense of isolation, his mental health struggles, his substance abuse struggles, these were things that had been with him for quite some
time.
It is all too true that although pop stars are enormously famous and adored by millions and millions of people, they are often very isolated. They're
under intense pressure. They're subject to extreme isolation and great deal of boredom. And it is very, very difficult for these young people.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think there's a message in there, very quickly, about the pressure that's put on children, quite frankly, in this industry, but
in other industries and whether or not particularly when things end. And obviously, the band broke up many years ago now. But what happens when some
of that fame dissipates, some of the success dissipates, but you're still a person of interest? But also, I think they need to reach out to anybody
around you that you know could be struggling, whether they're calling you or not.
LEVY: I think that's absolutely right. The -- this is a pop star and this is someone who is enormously famous and wealthy and still struggles with
these issues. But we see many people around us, in our lives, in our families, who struggle with similar issues, and we do need to reach out to
those people at moments like this. It's a particularly vulnerable and difficult time for those who might struggle with depression, who might
struggle with some substance abuse issues, when someone famous has tragically passed in this manner.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Joe, good to chat to you. Thank you. Joe Levy there with the Rolling Stone.
LEVY: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. All right. Coming up for us, Kamala Harris makes her case to conservatives, but is it working? We'll speak to our chief
media analyst after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." More Americans are heading to the polls as early voting begins now in North Carolina. Vice President
Kamala Harris had a whirlwind day Thursday, making several stops in the swing State of Wisconsin. The Democratic nominee making her case to
Republicans.
[18:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: We are ready for a new and optimistic generation of leadership,
which is why Democrats and independents and Republicans are supporting our campaign.
In fact, just yesterday. I was with over 100 Republican leaders from across the country who joined me on the campaign trail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: On Wednesday, Harris sparred with Fox News anchor Bret Baier. It was the first -- it's the Vice President's first sit down interview with
the network. The interview offered Harris the chance to speak directly to conservatives. Harris promising her presidency won't be a repeat of
Biden's.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So, you're not Joe Biden, you're not Donald Trump but nothing comes to mind that you would do differently?
HARRIS: Let me be very clear. My presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency. And like every new president that comes in to
office, I will bring my life experiences, my professional experiences, and fresh and new ideas. I represent a new generation of leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: For more on this, we're joined by Brian Stelter. Brian, great to have you on the show. I think no one can deny that this was a brave
decision to appear in and conduct this interview. Do we think she managed to convince any skeptical Republicans, skeptical of Trump that is, to cross
the aisle? And how many people watched?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Well, we know a lot of people watched. So, even if only let's say one out of 100 viewers were persuaded,
that's a big deal for Kamala Harris. According to the overnight Nielsen ratings, about 7 million people tuned in live for this interview on Fox.
That's about triple what that hour usually gets on Fox. So, a huge surge of viewers don't normally watch Fox at that time of day wanted to see Harris
get in the hot seat with Bret Baier.
And it was a very hot seat. Baier was challenging her, often interrupting her, interrupting her a whole lot more than he interrupted Donald Trump
when he interviewed Trump last year. But that's what the Fox audience wanted to see. They wanted to see Harris interrogated. The fact that she
went along with it, went through it, and then at the end of the interview, read her domain name out loud and told viewers, go to kamalaharris.com.
Read about my policies. It seems like it was a win for her.
And certainly, from the Harris campaign aides I've spoken with, they believe they put some points on the board. They scored some points through
this interview. But you know, how many people did it actually persuade? That's the impossible part to know.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the impossible question and answer. It was interesting, the Trump war room, which is sort of the campaign on Twitter or on what was
Twitter, of course, now X, that's got 5 million views. They've posted it like a campaign ad. So, that's what they clearly thought of some of her
answers.
It's fair to say Trump's town hall on Fox got slightly different treatment, though, slightly more tailored apparently, and audience friendly as well.
STELTER: Yes, look, it was softball versus hardball. Trump's town hall on Fox, an all-woman town hall. It was organized in part by local Republican
groups. This was a room stocked with Trump supporters, and Fox didn't exactly disclose that, but it was kind of obvious from the questions.
By the way, much lower rated. This was not a huge television ratings event the way that Harris on Fox was. Why? Because Trump has a regular presence
on Fox. It's his safe space. He thinks he owns the network. In fact, he likes to complain whenever he sees Democrats on Fox because he thinks that
only Republicans should be on Fox News.
But that speaks to why this was so important for Harris to at least try to appeal to Fox viewers. It was a way for her to almost walk into a Trump
campaign field office and be willing to take questions. And frankly, that's pretty rare in this American political environment.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was about to say, there's no breaking news in any of that, quite frankly, I think you get what you're given. Frank Luntz, the
pollster was talking to the show earlier this week, and he said, look, she needs to talk more, and he needs to talk less. And I've just been sort of
tallying up the sort of cancellations or the postponements. The former president cancelled with CNBC, I believe, Squawk Box, cancelled an
interview with NBC, and then 60 Minutes was also cancelled, or maybe postponed was the NBC one. So -- maybe they're taking Frank's advice.
STELTER: I think what we're seeing Donald Trump believes he's winning. He's taking fewer risks. He's trying to be more careful, although the word
careful never really applies to the former president. But generally speaking, he's taking fewer risks.
Kamala Harris is taking more risks. She's acting more like the underdog. And that's the way she talks about her campaign. She describes herself as
the underdog. So, maybe this is a situation where they're believing the polls, that maybe Trump's a little too confident. We will see in a few
weeks. But he is the one that's taking fewer risks right now, especially in the media environment.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating to see. Brian, great to have you on. Thank you. Brian Stelter there.
STELTER: Thanks.
CHATTERLEY: All right. Coming up, food delivery is big business in China, but an economic dip also has customers cutting back. We'll tell you how
workers are responding. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." Food delivery is a big industry in China, but the nation's economic slump has consumers cutting back on
takeouts. It's hurting food delivery workers with the average paycheck smaller than it was before the pandemic. Marc Stewart reports more from the
streets of Beijing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Food delivery drivers in China packing up hot meals and hot tempers. This driver breaks
down after getting a negative customer review. Another driver snaps as police stop him for running a red light. Both episodes could mean a cut in
their pay linked to on time delivery and customer satisfaction.
It's a job that keeps drivers on their feet and on the street as they battle the bustle, including here in Beijing. Safety isn't the only
struggle.
STEWART: What about customers? Are they ever rude to you?
YANG, FOOD DELIVERY DRIVER (through translator): There are all kinds of customers. It's difficult to avoid.
STEWART (voice-over): We followed 35-year-old Yang as he navigated the lunchtime rush.
STEWART: This is a good way to make a living.
YANG (through translator): I think it's fine, but not as easy as before. More people are doing the same job.
STEWART: This is big business. Last year, there were about 12 million delivery drivers on the road. It's a number that's been growing.
STEWART (voice-over): Last year, industry giant Meichuan saw its revenue climb 26 percent year on year to more than $10 billion. Yet paychecks are
shrinking from more than $1,000 a month in 2018 to less than $950 a month in 2023. Experts say this could be due in part to the economic slump in
China, as consumers place cheaper orders and combine their purchases.
20-year-old driver Lu tells us he makes about $30 to $40 a day.
LU SIHANG, FOOD DELIVERY DRIVER (through translator): I work from 10:00 a.m. onward to past 8:00 p.m., about 30 deliveries.
STEWART (voice-over): For some drivers, that's still better than the alternatives. It's flexible and beats sweating hours on a farm or a factory
floor. But as China keeps growing its appetite of swiping for service, (INAUDIBLE) frustration appears to be eating away at more delivery drivers.
Marc Stewart, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And finally, on "First Move," if you thought a regular Rubik's Cube was tough, try a miniature one. Japanese toy maker MegaHouse rolling
out a cube so small you need tweezers to play it. If you're interested in buying one, be prepared to pay a big $5,000 to be exact. Is that right?
Hanako Montgomery has more from Tokyo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is what it takes to solve the world's smallest Rubik's Cube. You'll need a lot of patience
and a pair of tweezers.
[18:55:00]
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): It's about the size of a few grains of rice, with each side measuring just five millimeters. But yes, it actually works.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It's made with such delicate parts that if you shake it roughly like you would with a normal Rubik's Cube,
there's a possibility that parts might come off.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): The world's smallest Rubik's Cube was designed by Japanese toy maker, MegaHouse. Made of aluminum, it's about a thousand
times smaller than the classic version.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I wanted to show the world the beauty of Japanese miniatures, the technology that is packed into these
small things, but assembling them is the trickiest part because it has to be rotatable. If you make it too tight with no gaps, it won't move. So, you
need a minimum amount of space.
MONTGOMERY: You need a lot of concentration to do this. OK. Then good eyes.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): At over $5,000, this tiny cube is more of a collector's item, with deliveries rolling out from April.
Hanako Montgomery, CNN, Tokyo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: I could literally lose hours that way. Fantastic.
And that just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
