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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Biden Allows Ukraine to Use Long-Range Missiles; Missile Strike on Odessa Kills 10 People; Russia Strike on Sumy Kills 11; Wegovy Launching in China; Trump Picks Sean Duffy as Transportation Secretary; Trump's Provocative Cabinet Picks; Philippines Recovering from Typhoon Man-yi; Spirit Airlines Files for Bankruptcy; Trump Taps Brendan Carr to be FCC Chair; Bluesky Adding 1 Million Users a Day; Morphing Wheel Revolutionizing Wheelchair Mobility; Jake Paul Beats Mike Tyson. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired November 18, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: -- George Clooney's fancy watch and Jennifer Aniston's fancy purse and Wolf Blitzer's fancy suit. You could see Jake
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The news continues on CNN, Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. He's in a different suit than the one he's donating.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: -- p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And wherever you are in the world, this is your "First
Move."
And a warm welcome to "First Move" as always. And here's today's need to know. Weapon worries. President Biden allows Ukraine to use long-range
missiles inside Russia. Battle of the bulge. Weight loss drug Wegovy launching in China. X-odus, Twitter-like Bluesky adding one million users a
day. We'll speak to the platform to understand why. And boxing and some buffering. 60 million Netflix viewers see Jake Paul beat Mike Tyson despite
tech glitches galore. That conversation and plenty more coming up.
But first, President Joe Biden giving Ukraine permission to use long-range missiles to strike inside Russia. The Kremlin calls the move throwing "oil
on the fire," quote. It comes as Moscow deploys around 50,000 troops to the southern Kursk region where Kyiv launched its surprise counteroffensive in
the summer. Washington says more than 11,000 North Korean troops are now operating there. This also comes after one of Russia's largest attacks on
Ukraine in months. At least 10 people lost their lives in Monday's missile attack on the southern city of Odessa, according to authorities.
Well, Nick Paton Walsh joins us now. Nick, good to have you with us. It's being considered as a provocative, a controversial decision here in the
United States, but it does feel like it follows a similar pattern and that it's almost at the point where it feels too late that the United States
relents and provides the support that Ukraine has been asking for. How much of a difference will it make?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTELLIGENCE SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, look, the escalatory kind of potency of this is really being
increased by how long it's taken President Joe Biden to decide he was willing to take the risks. He spent months saying he simply could not do
this because it might provoke Russia into something else.
Is it going to make a significant change on the battlefield? Well, I'm sure there will be some precision strikes using these missiles that may inflict
damage upon Russia's inner infrastructure, but ultimately, I doubt there will be enough of these ATACMS missiles delivered fast enough to change the
flow on the battlefield. And that is still bad news for Ukrainians living every night under the threat of horrific bombardment. Here's what we know.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (voice-over): The desperately familiar scramble to find survivors after Russian missiles slammed into the border town of Sumy on Sunday
night. Less usual, the death toll of eleven. Two children, a residential block hit.
And just hours later, another 10 killed in a strike on Odessa. Horrifically, this is now the norm for Ukraine. The weekend seeing a
particularly large nationwide attack after nearly a thousand days of war. Donald Trump's election may have made diplomacy a likelihood again, but
Ukraine's Zelenskyy clear how the strike showed quote, "what Russia is really interested in only war."
He visited two frontline towns under intense Russian pressure. Monday, Pokrovsk key to Ukraine's entire Southeastern front. And Kupyansk, a town
Russia was kicked out of in late 2022. All signs the war, for months, has not been going Ukraine's way.
Perhaps behind the stark and significant U.S. policy change Sunday, sources telling CNN President Joe Biden has finally permitted Ukraine to use long-
range American missiles to strike inside Russia. Something Zelenskyy has for months begged for.
The plan to strengthen Ukraine is the victory plan I had presented to partners, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said. Long-range
possibilities for our army is one of its major points. Missiles will speak for themselves, he added.
One U.S. official said the missiles would focus on Kursk, the part of Russia Ukraine invaded in August, where Moscow is due to make a
counterattack and a key bargaining chip if peace talks begin.
Biden's decision process familiar. Like with HIMARS missiles, he said no, while Ukraine struggled to push Russia back in 2022 and then relented. And
with Abrams tanks, he paused. So, they arrived too late to help in 2023's counteroffensive. An F-16 jets had first rejected, and now helping Ukraine
push Russia's advances back.
[18:05:00]
The ATACMS won't change Ukraine's war overnight, there are not enough of them. But it is a move Biden refused to make for months, saying it was too
escalatory, but now endorses, entangling the U.S. deeper into the war, just months ahead of Trump taking office.
The fear? How Putin will react. When the idea first emerged, he said it would be a stark escalation.
This will mean that NATO countries, the United States, and European countries are fighting Russia, he said.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (on camera): Now, that was his previous response. We've not heard him reiterate that today. Moscow, I think, trying to suggest that these are
media reports and they haven't necessarily seen this on the battlefield yet.
Look, they may choose to deny this is happening. Ukraine may not explicitly state if it's used these missiles to hit particular targets. But what we're
certainly seeing here is a Biden administration in their closing months unafraid to do things, which, for months, they've considered, frankly, too
risky. That may be to improve Ukraine's chances on the battlefield right now, but it may also simply be to alter the landscape that Donald Trump,
the president-elect, finds when he comes to office on January the 20th.
He's made it clear he wants the killing to stop. He would be a fan of peace talks. Is that going to be easier or harder with this escalatory move by
his predecessor, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Nick Paton Walsh, great to have you. Thank you. Now, to a double shot of good news for Chinese citizens fighting the battle of the
bulge. I'm talking weight loss. Pharmaceutical giant Novo Nordisk announcing Monday that it will begin selling its popular weight loss drug
Wegovy in China after receiving Beijing's approval earlier this year. The company already sells the diabetes drug Ozempic in China. And it's way
ahead of competitor Eli Lilly, who has approval to sell but is not yet available there.
China is also considered a prime market for weight loss drugs. Surveys show that more than half of Chinese adults are considered overweight, and that
amounts to more than a half a billion people, more than the entire population of the United States.
Jared Holz joins us now. He's a healthcare equity strategist at Mizuho. Jared, fantastic to have you with us. I feel like all the emphasis on these
weight loss drugs is pushed towards the United States, probably because I believe in Wegovy's case, it costs more than $1,300 a month. So, it comes
down to price. Just talk to us about the Chinese market opportunity for all of these players.
JARED HOLZ, HEALTH CARE EQUITY STRATEGIST, MIZUHO: Julia, thank you so much for having me. Yes, I think price is definitely going to be the
variable that at least investors talk about it, and the company's probably talk about it, too, is that as the drugs are launched in what's going to
be, you know, the biggest region or the biggest opportunity in terms of the population. You mentioned more than a billion people in China. And the
statistics are overwhelming there, just like they are here with respect to the percentage of adults that are overweight or obese.
So, when we look at the pricing dynamics of, you know, over $1,000 per month or per treatment regimen here, it's probably closer to $150, $200,
$250 In China. So, there's a big pricing differential, but I think when with Novo Nordisk and Lily, they will hope that the volume will more than
offset that, which it probably will.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, if we use the Ozempic for diabetes as an example for what Novo sold last year, it was around, I believe, $600 billion.
HOLZ: Yes, I mean, the numbers are staggering.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, staggering.
HOLZ: And just this year alone between Novo and Lily, they're going to generate I think upwards of $30 billion between the two companies with just
this one drug, and most of the sales are coming from the United States because, of course, that's where the biggest profit dollars are. But also,
because manufacturing is just not anywhere near where it needs to be to satisfy the demand.
You know, there was an article last week talking about 75 percent of the U.S. population, the adult population being overweight or obese. And then
you add on China to that. I mean, the numbers get absurd. And so, it really just comes down to manufacturing and the supply chain and how quickly that
can get done.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, very important point. Can we talk about the stock price impact of the Chinese opportunity versus perhaps the challenge of on RFK
Jr. and his focus now in the United States on diet, nutrition, food quality versus people perhaps taking drugs in order to bring their weight loss
down? So, how are you factoring this all in?
[18:10:00]
HOLZ: It's so difficult and complex now that we have this new administration. Just something that probably wasn't contemplated just two
weeks ago in terms of, you know, how a singular, you know, nomination could really derail these stocks, but it really has.
I mean, I think a lot of what RFK has said, you know, and I've said this publicly, you know, make a lot of sense on the surface in terms of focusing
on diet and behavior and things of that nature, but we know it's not viable. So, I think when you kind of compare, you know, or juxtaposed that
the Chinese opportunity Versus what RFK has said, it's still going to be the biggest therapeutic market by a wide margin, I believe. And so, I think
it's just going to be a matter of, you know, the company showing the numbers and the financial results versus the rhetoric and the noise and
balancing that out.
But I do think, you know, some of the stock moves have been, you know, fairly aggressive given the fact that we still don't know where this
administration stands.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Jared, one thing's for sure, you're going to be a very busy man, an even busier man, over the coming weeks and months. Great to
have you on. Thank you. Jared Holtz there from Mizuho.
HOLZ: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Now, President-Elect Donald Trump is in the middle of staffing his future cabinets, as we were just discussing. We learned a
short time ago he's tapped former Congressman Sean Duffy to be transportation secretary. And he's casting a wide net, too, for secretary
of the treasury, according to sources. Possible picks now include Kevin Warsh, a former governor of the Federal Reserve, as well as Marc Rowan, co-
founder of Apollo Global Management, a private equity firm.
Meanwhile, Elon Musk had been pushing for Cantor Fitzgerald's chief executive, Howard Lutnick. Kristen Holmes joins us now from West Palm
Beach. You and I were talking a couple of hours ago on Quest Means Business that perhaps the message is if you promote yourself, if you push too much
and you look like you're telling the president-elect that you should have the job or where you should be, you kind of get replaced and other options
are looked at.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia. I mean, that sounds exactly like what has happened with Howard Lutnick. I've been
talking to sources all day about when we're actually going to hear about secretary of treasury. Obviously, this is one of the bigger posts, and it
is surprising that we haven't gotten an answer yet. They still are telling me that this is in the works. These conversations are being had.
Those two last people that you just mentioned, Kevin and Marc, who are expanding that list there, they were meeting at Mar-a-Lago today with
Donald Trump as he continues to try and work out who he is going to actually pick for this position. But in the case of Howard Lutnick, we know
that when it came to Scott Besson, who had been the top front runner, a hedge fund manager, that Howard essentially walked in and said that he
wanted that position as well.
Well, that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. We're told that even rubbed former president, now President-Elect Donald Trump the wrong way,
using that position to kind of promote yourself, as you noted, those are things that don't go over well when it comes to Trump world.
So, now the list is expanded. How this actually works out, we'll wait and see. They were supposed to have meetings today, but clearly, they had a
couple of other pieces of business to attend to first, as you mentioned, naming the secretary of transportation, and Sean Duffy was something that
they got done today.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, what more can you tell us about him? I was just looking at the Trump-Vance announcement on this married, father of nine children,
this has been a busy man and obviously, has political history too.
HOLMES: Not just political history, but a television history, which we know is important to Donald Trump. So, when it comes to Sean Duffy, he was
in Congress for about eight years. He served in Wisconsin, but after that, and before that as well, he was a reality TV star, but now, he is a big Fox
contributor. He continues to appear on Fox all the time. And his wife is on Fox as well, and he himself has co-hosted a show on Fox Business called The
Bottom Line.
The reason why we bring this up in terms of his television experience is we know that something that's really important to the president-elect, part of
the transition process that he has done is actually watch video clips of these various candidates to see how they perform on TV. They don't want any
surprises.
And also, Donald Trump wants people who can defend him on television. He still believes that TV is the biggest medium, that's the best way to
communicate. And so, he's looking at people across the board who he believes can, quote/unquote, "effectively communicate." That's the term
that I've heard over and over again from these senior advisers. And part of that is being somebody who can be on television. Clearly, Sean Duffy has
that same criteria.
And he's not the only one. If you look across at Kristi Noem, who's often on TV, Matt Gaetz, always on TV defending Donald Trump. These are all
people who have pushed forward Trump's agenda, but not just behind the scenes, not just at press conferences, but gone on the airwaves to do so.
And clearly Sean Duffy fits into that criteria as well.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. If you've got a message, you have to be able to sell it in Trump world. We see that with these picks. Kristen Holmes in West Palm
Beach. Thank you.
[18:15:00]
Now, straight ahead. Typhoon terror. Philippines' residents cleaning up after the fourth major storm to hit in just under two weeks. Is the weather
nightmare finally over? We'll have the latest forecast.
Plus, ditching X for greener pastures, or should we say bluer skies? We'll speak to the hot new social media site looking to muscle in on Musk.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And a mixed Monday on Wall Street topping today's Money Move. The S&P and NASDAQ powering ahead after
last week's losses. The Dow finishing relatively flat ahead of a busy earnings week. Retail giants Walmart and Target and A.I. chip giant NVIDIA
all reporting results over the coming days.
And it was a charged-up session for EV firm Tesla, another one. Shares up 5.5 percent. Reports say the Trump White House will slash regulations for
the self-driving car industry, giving a boost to Elon Musk's robotaxi venture.
And another day of weakness for major government contractors like Booz Allen Hamilton, KBR, and Parsons, fears that Elon Musk and Ramaswamy's
government Efficiency Department will force firms to cut prices.
And a green and red mix on Wall Street weakness in Shanghai and Tokyo, but gains for the KOSPI and for the Hang Seng too.
And now, to the Philippines, which is recovering from Super Typhoon Man-yi. It made landfall Saturday as the equivalent of a Category 5 Atlantic
hurricane. It's the fourth typhoon to hit the Philippines in less than two weeks. For more on this, we're joined by Elisa Raffa. Great to have you on
the show. Please tell us that the bad weather's over now.
ELISA RAFFA, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Finally, they are feeling some relief as Man-yi exits the Philippines, but left with some damage behind. I mean,
look at all of this flooding for parts of the nation from some of that heavy rain that came in with Man-yi. Also, some rescues because look at
just the wind damage here for some of these villages and communities. Rescues needing to be happened because, also remember, they have had
multiple typhoons over the last couple of days. So, some structures might have already been damaged from the last a very storm.
Man-yi made landfall -- two landfalls actually in the Philippines, one late on Saturday, a massive storm, 260-kilometer per hour winds, making it that
massive super typhoon Category 5 strength, and then it made that second landfall north and east of Manila going into Sunday, really maintaining
that super typhoon strength. So, just really incredible to see this. And again, it just maintaining its strength for two landfalls in the
Philippines.
[18:20:00]
Now, this was after rapidly intensified on Friday. It more than did its job in meeting that definition for rapid intensification and then something
that we continue to find more common because of incredibly warm air and ocean temperatures getting trapped by our pollution. I mean, just look at
that image on the satellite. Just classic for a very strong super typhoon.
Here's a look at the last four typhoons in just 10 days for the Philippines. They have never seen this many typhoons hit in this short
amount of time in this history -- in their history, and they all hit as typhoons. Man-yi hit again as that super typhoon. So, they really could use
some of that relief. Rainfall totals were pretty impressive. For some communities at least a month's worth of rain. 102 millimeters, 192
millimeters. So, we're getting a lot of rain that could cause some of that flooding.
We are finding Man-yi kind of on its dying and decaying trend in the South China Sea. It is a tropical storm right now, but it is much weaker and it
is starting to get eaten up by some wind shear upstairs in the atmosphere, that wind energy that typhoons hate. Cooler ocean temperatures and dry air.
So, that's going to continue to send it on this dying and decaying trend as it heads in the direction of Vietnam as we go into the week.
So, you could see, it could still bring some rain showering to parts of South China, Central Vietnam, but not nearly the impact that we saw in the
Philippines. We'll get, you know, maybe 100 to 150 millimeters of rain again for South China, parts of Central Vietnam, but at least, again, not
nearly the strength that it was over the weekend. Just really thinking of everybody in the Philippines after all of those typhoons in just 10 days.
Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, as are we. Worst over, fingers crossed, some waterproof outerwear ready for those -- but it approaches, but nothing like what we've
seen. Thank goodness. Elisa Raffe, thank you.
Now, on to some dispiriting news for investors in Spirit Airlines. The budget carrier filing for bankruptcy Monday after its merger attempt with
Frontier fell through. Spirit says it will operate as usual while it restructures. It is the first major U.S. airline to file for Chapter 11
bankruptcy in over a decade. Its shares have lost more than 90 percent of their value this past year.
Pete Muntean joins us from Washington. Pete, there's good news and bad news in this. The good news is Chapter 11 protects it to some degree, which is
good news for consumers. The bad news is it's got to hurt competition.
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION AND TRANSPORTATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and we'll see if Spirit can pull it out of the dive here. They've announced a
bit of a restructuring plan. You know, people love to hate on Spirit Airlines, but you should care about this even if you don't fly on Spirit,
because it really changed the industry, ushered in the term ultra-low-cost carry, really a pioneer in that, and that forced major airlines to
introduce the notorious Basic Economy Fair.
But the bottom line here is, this could have big implications for every other U.S. airline, a competitive industry. So, this might, keyword might,
Lead to ticket prices going up on other airlines. Here's the good news. If you have a ticket or a credit on Spirit Airlines, you will not notice any
change for now. Spirit insisted a statement that guests can continue to book and fly without interruption and can use all tickets, credits, and
loyalty points as normal.
Also, no impact on workers. We're hearing from Spirit's Flight Attendants Union that they will remain on the job. Their contract is in place. No
changes of pay or benefits. So, no immediate job furloughs, like we saw airlines begin to do during the pandemic. Also, Spirit underscores that
vendors will continue to be paid.
Big questions now about what will happen to Spirit Airlines in the long run. Frontier Airlines tried to merge with Spirit in 2022. Just a few
months after that, JetBlue tried to do the exact same thing, but its acquisition of Spirit was blocked by the Justice Department on antitrust
grounds. Frontier ended its merger plans with Spirit earlier this month. So, that means no apparent lifelines left for Spirit Airlines, saddled with
about $3 billion in debt.
So, now, it's really on passengers to pay attention here. A top airline consumer advocate tells me that flights could start to get eliminated in
the months ahead. So, it's especially important to sign up for alerts and check the flight status online obsessively. Silver lining here is that this
is unlikely to have an impact on Thanksgiving or holiday travel with the Thanksgiving rush here in the U.S. just a few days away. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, that's the good news, Pete. What we were listening out for. Very quickly, what if you've got credit with them like you? Because we
were talking about it a couple of hours ago. What do you do?
MUNTEAN: I have a $200 credit. You should probably use it. Use it or lose it. That's the best thing. You know, the Department of Transportation has
really beefed up its refund rules. And so, consumer advocates tell me that if you have a credit, if you have a ticket on Spirit, you do have a better
chance of getting a refund. Although, if you got a credit, you should probably use it now.
[18:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, good advice. We like that. Pete Muntean, always a pleasure, sir. Thank you.
MUNTEAN: Anytime.
CHATTERLEY: We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" with the look at more of the international headlines this hour. At least 56 people have been injured by
a rocket attack on Northern Israel just in the past few hours. Children and teenagers are among those hurt. The IDF says around five rockets crossed
into Israel from Lebanon, one of which hit a multi-story building.
Hopes for a breakthrough in the Israel-Hezbollah war. Sources say Lebanon and Hezbollah have posited -- responded positively to a U.S.-backed
ceasefire proposal as Israel continues to strike in the heart of Beirut. A big sticking point is a clause that would allow Israel to take direct
action in Lebanon if the terms of the ceasefire were to be violated. A U.S. envoy is due in Beirut on Tuesday to discuss the matter.
Lawyers for Sean Diddy Combs are accusing prosecutors of violating their client's constitutional rights for obtaining the music mogul's personal
notes from his jail cell. They're asking the judge overseeing Combs' sex trafficking case to hold a hearing. Over the weekend, the prosecution filed
new allegations at Combs, claiming that he, based in part on those notes, has been trying to influence witnesses ahead of his trial.
And recopying our top story once more, the Kremlin accusing the outgoing Biden administration of escalating the conflict in Ukraine, saying it wants
to, quote, "throw oil on the fire." This after President Joe Biden authorized Ukraine to use powerful long-range U.S. missiles inside Russia.
Fred Pleitgen has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (VOICE- OVER): After Russia launched massive missile strikes against Ukraine this weekend,
killing and wounding dozens in what the Russians call targeted strikes against infrastructure supporting Ukraine's war effort, Moscow is now up in
arms over the Biden administration's decision to allow Ukraine to use U.S. supplied missiles capable of striking deep into Russia.
[18:30:00]
State TV and breaking news mode, blasting the White House. The Biden administration has decided to continue the war, which Trump promised to
end, the host says.
The Kremlin spokesman accusing Washington of, quote, "pouring oil on the fire" of the Ukraine war. And Russian President Vladimir Putin for weeks
warning allowing Ukraine to hit deep inside Russia with western weapons would be a massive escalation.
This will mean that NATO countries, the United States and European countries are at war with Russia, Putin said in September.
Sources within the Biden administration tell CNN the decision was made to help Ukraine hold on to territory in Russia's Kursk region where Kyiv says
it's up against nearly 50,000 Russians, but also troops from North Korea.
Ukraine's president, bullish, hits are not made with words, he said. Such things don't need announcements. Missiles will speak for themselves.
But Kyiv's forces are rapidly losing ground on most frontlines, especially in the Eastern Pokrovsk region. Volodymyr Zelenskyy visiting the key
battleground on Monday to try and shore up morale amongst his forces, which remain badly outmanned and outgunned.
This weekend, even Zelenskyy saying the war must end soon, and he believes the incoming Trump administration will try and get it done quickly.
The war will end faster with the policies of this team that will now lead the White House, he said, this is their approach, their promise to their
society.
Music to the ears of the Kremlin, while Russia has even changed its nuclear doctrine, now allowing Moscow to use nukes if a country like Ukraine
attacks with long distance weapons with the help of a nuclear power like the U.S. Moscow's hope for better relations with the incoming Trump
administration could cause the Kremlin to refrain from a strong response, Russian political analyst Alexey Naumov tells me.
ALEXEY NAUMOV, RUSSIAN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the Kremlin will give Donald Trump some time to maybe re-evaluate this policy, re-adjust it.
We've seen some good signs about this. Elon Musk, who plays an outsized role in the incoming administration, criticized the decision. Donald Trump
Jr. criticized the decision.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): The Kremlin has not yet said what its response might look like, only that it would be, quote, "appropriate."
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Thanks to Fred there. Now, coming up after the break, call it an X-odus. Users leaving Elon Musk's social media mouthpiece for something
new. We'll hear from Bluesky's chief operating officer next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." Elon Musk will soon have a close ally at the helm of the FCC. That's the government agency that oversees
U.S. broadcasting and communications firms. President-Elect Trump picking conservative Brendan Carr to be the commission's next chairman. He's
currently its ranking Republican and will not need Senate confirmation.
Carr has criticized the FCC for denying government contracts to Musk's Starlink satellite firm in the past. He's also blasted big tech companies.
Platforms like Meta and Google for what he believes to be their suppression of right-wing content, key issue for Musk too. He's also, by the way,
advocated for a ban on TikTok.
Now, social media users finding themselves disillusioned with Elon Musk or the content on X may have been defecting to a new platform to express their
views. Bluesky. And it seems X's loss is Bluesky's gain. It's now boasting around 20 million users, with 6 million joining in the past week alone. And
if you take a look at it, it looks pretty Twitter like, which makes sense because it was also founded by Jack Dorsey.
Bluesky says what makes it different is that users have far greater user control over things like content and what they see. It still has a
fraction, of course, of X's user base, which is estimated by some to be around 245 million daily users. But Bluesky's growth is making the social
media universe sit up and take note.
Rose Wang is Bluesky's chief operating officer, and she joins us now. Rose, a pleasure to have you on the show. Whether it's for you guys as the exec.
committee or for users on the platform, what are the biggest differences between Bluesky and X?
ROSE WANG, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, BLUESKY: Thanks for having me, Julia. We get this question a lot, and one of the key things I like to highlight
is that on Bluesky you get to interact with real people and have fun conversations.
And why is that happening on Bluesky and not on X? It's because we're used to being trapped in one algorithm controlled by a small group of people.
And with Bluesky, that's no longer the case. Users have built over 50,000 different feeds, including five cat feeds, 200 Taylor Swift feeds, and
various other feeds organized either chronologically or based on what your followers are liking. And the possibilities are endless.
And so, these feeds are providing cozier corners to connect with people with similar interests because there's no longer a single dominant
algorithm that only promotes either the most polarizing posts and or the latest brands.
CHATTERLEY: OK. So, you can cultivate the content that you see, and in a sense, create your own algorithm. Somebody else isn't artificially creating
it for you. Is that the case? But you also said, and just to answer two questions at once, real people. Are you saying that you control the bot
content as well on the platform?
WANG: When I talk about real people, what I mean is, right now, that lots of users are joining on. And when you have an algorithm that's controlled
by the company, oftentimes the company will put certain users ahead of others in terms of what they want to promote or not promote. And so, what's
really exciting about Bluesky is that we're putting that choice in users' hands. So, you can decide, hey, do I want to go talk to people with similar
interests in nature or science?
But when it comes to bots, I mean, bots are going to be a problem on all social media platforms. I think what's really exciting about Bluesky is
that this is a new social media platform that we launched to the public in February of this year. And so, this is -- we've learned a lot from what's
happened with traditional social media networks. And so, we can go and prevent and put in the technologies now to prevent spam bots at scale in
ways that earlier social media companies had to learn as they were building.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the hard way. I mean, you did see a surge after Donald Trump won the presidential election. Do you see yourself as a platform for
Democrats? I think the Guardian newspaper said it was a toxic media platform. That's how it described X. Rose, how do you want to be perceived?
How do you ensure that this is a platform for all and that you encourage debate without the hate?
WANG: That's a great question. When we built Bluesky, the idea is that anyone with thoughtful ideas want to have actual dialogue. We can provide a
new space for those conversations and reduce the toxicity. One of the big reasons, I think, that we're able to do that is because Jay and I, who run
the company, we're both women. We've been on the internet for decades and experience what it's like to be on the internet as women.
[18:40:00]
That said, because of that, we've put moderation and trust and safety as a first priority, because we believe that you cannot have fun without safety.
And so, what we hope to see is that over time you can create your own space and find your people. So, it doesn't really matter what you believe, but
it's about, can you have thoughtful conversation and will the community come together and help moderate and make sure that the new rules of this
new platform reduce rudeness and are promoting healthier dialogue.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, I like women in charge of all things. Let's just say that straight. But I also did read that Jack Dorsey stepped down, that he
also deleted his account. Can you explain why? And if that's the case?
WANG: Jack left our board earlier this year that said Jack -- when he helped found Bluesky, it was to help launch the idea and provide us the
funding. And when I say provide us the funding, we were actually building Bluesky for Twitter, who was our customer. So, we were a separate company,
including the protocol.
And so, the way that Jack is approaching this is he's approaching it from a portfolio approach. He wants lots of different open social networks out
there. And so, we're really appreciative of the support he gave us, but we're also our own team now. And we're really excited to keep going with
the 20 people we have on the team.
CHATTERLEY: Oh, wow. It's not enough at the speed of which you're growing. And I have seen some concerns about glitches and tech glitches. So, talk to
me -- and the funding points a very important one. How are you going to finance this if you're not advertising? And do you have the money to scale
up, even the infrastructure for the growth that you're seeing? Because that's how you really compete with some of the big guys in the platforms.
WANG: Yes, absolutely. Well, we've been taking on about a million users a day for the last week, as you said, and we've not had any major downtime.
And we're really proud of how robust our infrastructure is. I think a number of team members is somewhat correlated, but it's also how
experienced the team members are. And so, we have some really awesome folks on the team, such as Aaron Rodericks, who used to lead election integrity
at Twitter and now leads trust and safety here at Bluesky. And so, we have very experienced executives.
And then, on top of that the way that we're thinking about scaling and thinking about monetization is we announced that we're launching
subscriptions at the end of this year. And -- but we're not going to put any core functionalities behind a paywall. It's very important that speech
is open to all, but we're looking at more like (INAUDIBLE) or more video uploads. And so, that will help sustain the network for some time, but
we're also -- we have some really awesome investors who helped actually build the internet early on, who have been supporting Bluesky. And so, we
expect to continue to grow and we -- with investor money, we're not so worried about monetization yet.
CHATTERLEY: It's fascinating to have the depth of bench and experience, to your point. So, you're seeing a lot of these challenges ahead of time,
which is helpful. Rose, very quickly because I have about 10 seconds. How much sleep have you and your 19 colleagues had over the last few weeks?
WANG: I will say that we're getting enough sleep to keep going, but probably not enough to be healthy.
CHATTERLEY: Good luck. Keep in touch. We'll continue to track your progress. Thank you, Rose Wang, chief operating officer of Bluesky.
All right. Now, to what could be a life changing innovation for users of wheelchairs. Engineers in South Korea have come up with a way to safely
climb stairs or take on rocky terrain. And to do this, they've literally reinvented the wheel, as our Kristie Lu Stout reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This wheelchair can move like no others can. Engineers in South Korea have
developed a shape-shifting morphing wheel, calling it the world's first. The wheel can shift between rigid and soft areas, providing stability on
both flat ground and rocky paths. And it may even allow users to climb stairs. All this without complex machinery or fancy sensors.
SONG SUNG-HYUK, PRINCIPAL RESEARCHER, KOREA INSTITUTE OF MACHINERY AND MATERIALS (through translator): Traditional wheels are designed to retain
a rigid, circular shape for stability on flat surfaces, which limits their ability to overcome obstacles. However, our wheel maintains its round form
on flat ground and softens only when navigating obstacles.
STOUT (voice-over): The wheels can reach speeds of 30 kilometer or 18 miles per hour. The innovation behind these wheels is simple yet
groundbreaking. The wheel's flexibility is inspired by the surface tensions found in liquid droplets, says the researcher.
[18:45:00]
SONG (through translator): When the force that pulls the outermost molecules of a liquid droplet inward increases, the droplet can maintain a
stable, circular shape. Similarly, our wheel is designed with a smart chain block on the outer edge. The greater the inward pull on this block, the
more stably it maintains a round shape.
STOUT (voice-over): The wheel turns firm for stability when the wire spokes pull the block inward. When it's loosened, it softens, allowing the
wheel to adapt to uneven surfaces. Researchers see big potential for the wheel: from personal mobility to robots.
SONG (through translator): This modularized wheel can be attached to any mobile platform, simply by replacing existing wheels. Once installed, the
wheel provides variable stiffness, adapting to each application.
STOUT (voice-over): Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: OK. Coming up for our big box office, but a big disappointment for some. Why the Tyson-Paul Netflix showdown has divided boxing fans. Stay
with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: The UAE is an arid land with vast deserts that requires importing around 90 percent of its food. But that may soon change as the
nation invests in smart agriculture, from addressing water scarcity to optimizing crop yields. Veronica Miracle explores A.I. and greenhouse
innovations could revolutionize farming in dry climates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Among the rolling sand dunes in the Al Ain desert, an unexpected green oasis. Just 90 minutes from
Abu Dhabi, the Al Ain region is home to 50 percent of the UAE's farms.
SHAMAL MOHAMMED, AGRITECH DIRECTOR, SILAL: In this farm, we are mostly blueberries.
MIRACLE (voice-over): And it's here that AgriTech company Silal is helping to turn the desert green.
MIRACLE: This is not a place where typically you would imagine growing loads of crops and yet, here we are. Why did you decide to build shop here?
MOHAMMED: Local food production is very important for the UAE and because of -- we have a very harsh environment, one of the options for many farmers
and growers in the region is a controlled environment, and one of the controlled environment system is the greenhouses.
MIRACLE (voice-over): Extreme high temperatures and minimal rainfall means the UAE has to import more than 90 percent of its food. But that could soon
change as the country boosts its investment in smart agriculture.
MOHAMMED: When we started at Silal, we identified there is actually a gap where we can bring the science and technology and translate it into a
practical application for farmers. We currently working on using drones in the greenhouses, for example, to monitor the crop. We have a handheld
system for measuring the ripeness and the firmness of the fresh produce. We're trying to bring the innovation back into the UAE and becoming a hub
for national and international partners.
[18:50:00]
MIRACLE (voice-over): One of those partners is Dutch company Hoogendorn, which harnesses data analytics, satellite imagery, and A.I. to grow crops
with precision. The company has brought technology and know-how to farms like Armela Farm, one of the most advanced greenhouses in the UAE.
MIRACLE: How are you taking all that you've learned in the Netherlands to use and applying it here in the UAE, where there's not a lot of lands to
farm on?
PETER HENDRIKS, CEO, HOOGENDORN: It was started by looking at how can we be as energy efficient as possible, because here we have challenges with
water scarcity. In the Netherlands, for example, it's energy. It became a philosophy where you really can grow a crop in a sustainable way, but also
in a very profitable way, because you use less natural resources. So, less inputs, higher yields.
MIRACLE (voice-over): From seeding to harvesting, this greenhouse runs a fully automated operation. 100 percent of the water used in production is
recycled and an electric cooling system keeps temperatures comfortable even at the height of summer.
MIRACLE: Did you ever think that you would see something like this in the UAE in the middle of the desert?
HENDRIKS: I think when you asked me 10, 15 years ago, I would not have thought that we would standing here inside the greenhouse like this,
because what we see here, this is really unique.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: In today's Sports Move, it may have been a record-breaking commercial success, but it's left many boxing fans feeling a little on the
ropes. Netflix says a staggering 60 million households tune in to watch boxing legend Mike Tyson take on social media star Jake Paul. Paul won the
fight via unanimous decision after eight rounds, but many say the match was a little underwhelming with the bigger fight being the one Netflix had
against its own technical issues.
Don Riddell is here with more. We can talk about the Netflix platform, which I think is interesting, Don, but I want to talk about the fight. I
mean, Tyson is a little old. I'm not being ageist. He's a little old. And who was the other guy?
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, I think you've just revealed a lot, Julia, about kind of the world you live in because a lot of people who I'll
say they're a little younger than me know exactly all about Jake Paul and they absolutely love him. And this guy has been incredibly good at carving
out a niche for himself in the boxing world in a very untraditional way and making it work for himself. He's not had that many fights.
But, you know, it's remarkable that he was able to get himself into a position where he could talk Mike Tyson out of retirement and get him back
into the ring and set up this fight, which made both of them, I'm sure, millions and millions of dollars. It was massively, massively hyped. And a
lot of fans, of all generations, from what I can gather, were really invested in this fight.
I think one of the unwritten rules about sport is the more you hype anything, the less exciting it's going to be. And I think that was the case
here. And it was perhaps inevitable that the fight was a bit of a dud. But it was definitely a landmark moment for the broadcast/streaming industry
because this, I think, clearly is where things are going to go from here.
Netflix have acknowledged the issues. And I actually, after the fight, I spoke to one of the men who helped promote the event and this is how he
described it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAKISA BIDARIAN, CO-FOUNDER, MOST VALUABLE PROMOTIONS: I mean, the number one reason is the event broke the internet. There's never been a streaming
event of this magnitude in history. We had the highest streaming viewership in the history of the United States. We had the biggest viewership of
women's sport in the United States ever. And what's even more impressive is we had the biggest attendance that Mike Tyson has ever fought in front of
his whole career.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIDDELL: Explanation, they broke the internet. I suppose you might say it was so good, it was bad.
CHATTERLEY: I'm clearly out of touch, and I accept it and I'm happy with it. Let's talk about the NFL then, on Christmas Day, because this seems to
be the start of many. And clearly, it's a huge commercial opportunity as you described.
RIDDELL: Yes. So, this is the way that things are going. And, you know, these sports leagues are looking for new opportunities. And of course, as
platforms like Netflix grow, they are more and more interested in exploring live television. We've not seen much sport on these platforms so far, but
Netflix is clearly now serious about it because they have two games coming up on Christmas day.
And not only that, they have Beyonce performing during the halftime of the second game on Christmas Day. So, they could have, again really, really big
numbers. And they're going to want to avoid a repeat of what happened the other night, which was buffering issues, an HD product that often was not
an HD product.
[18:55:00]
I personally had to log out and log back in probably about a dozen times during the evening. I'm not exaggerating. And it was incredibly
frustrating. I understand why it happened. You know, they're trying something new. The numbers were massive. It's a very, very steep learning
curve. But it is something that they're going to have to figure out. Because this is where it's all heading, right?
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, this is fantastic, Don. I mean, 65 million as well as the peak, I believe. So, I'd love to see how many people like you
that weren't also doing it for journalistic purposes just said, you know what, I've had it. I've tried to go in twice and now I'm done. They're
going to learn fast.
RIDDELL: We're going to get more numbers from them this week. I think maybe even Tuesday, they're going to reveal a lot more data about it. But,
you know, I will say for all the main fight was a dud, the women's fight was amazing. And I'm glad I got to see that. It really was great.
CHATTERLEY: Go, go the women. We love that.
RIDDELL: All right.
CHATTERLEY: Don Riddell, thank you. And that just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
