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First of All with Victor Blackwell

As Gaza Starves, The World Watches And Waits; Participant In Peace Talks Reacts To U.S. Decision To Withdraw; U.S. Gov't Review Found No Evidence Of Extensive Hamas Theft Of Gaza Aid; TX Dance Company To Perform Work Based On Uvalde School Shooting; USDA Stops Support For Minorities, In Line With Anti-DEI Stance; Malcolm-Jamal Warner's Bandmates Remember His Musical Side. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 26, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:01:17]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: First of all, how urgent is the goal of bringing the hostages home if everyone in Gaza is still starving, some to death right now. Listen, if you go to CNN's homepage, we keep a live blog going every day of Gaza headlines. And it's hard to see horrific headline after horrific headline populate the page this week. And that's keeping in mind that the headlines were horrible on October 7th, and they have been every day since. And yet they're getting worse.

You see some of them here. And add to this that the UN says that starving people in Gaza are beginning to look like walking corpses. Doctors Without Borders says that the rates of severe malnutrition in children under five in its clinics have tripled in just the last two weeks.

And we see all that and wonder, what are the world's leaders doing about it? And for now, it seems like they're watching along with the rest of us. The UN made the point this week that people are being starved while a few kilometers away, supermarkets are loaded with food.

Israel says that they'll allow other countries to drop aid into Gaza from the air in the next few days, but the UN warns that that method is costly and it's dangerous. And talks for a ceasefire. They're not going well either.

President Trump blames Hamas for the decision by the U.S. to pull back from talks. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They pulled out of Gaza. They pulled out in terms of negotiating. It was too bad. Hamas didn't really want to make a deal. I think they want to die, and it's very bad. And it got to be to a point where you're going to have to finish the job. They really asked for things. Don't forget, we got a lot of hostages out. So now we're down to the final hostages. And they know what happens

after you get the final hostages. And basically because of that, they really didn't want to make a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Israel Prime Minister says that alternative options are being considered to bring hostages home and end Hamas rule in Gaza. Israel says that Hamas, and we will remind you here it is a terrorist group, is responsible for the lack of food and medicine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MENCER, ISRAEL GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: This idea of famine and starvation has been thrown at us consistently on a weekly basis. For the last two years now, it has never come to far pass. So these are our false warnings which come from these aid organizations. And I also would say that where there is hunger in Gaza, it is hunger orchestrated by Hamas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: In the meantime, Egypt and Qatar, they say that they are still working towards a ceasefire. Dr. Bishara Bahbah is with us live from Doha. He's had a role in these talks to reach a ceasefire. And he is the chairman of Arab Americans for Peace, formerly known as Arab Americans for Trump.

Welcome back to the show. I thank you for your time. You supported this president before the election. You support him now. You said that you were certain the president would end this war, that things would change in Gaza, the hostages would come home. When you look at the pictures that we share this morning, what's your assessment of the president's job performance in doing what you said he would be able to do?

BISHARA BAHBAH, CHAIR, ARAB AMERICANS FOR PEACE (FORMERLY ARAB AMERICANS FOR TRUMP): Well, first of all, thank you for having me. And secondly, I just want to emphasize that I'm speaking on my own behalf. I do not represent anyone, especially the U.S. Government. So, having said that, I think what we are seeing is that there are two different approaches to the conflict. One whereby, one strategy is to find what is the minimum acceptable situation to both sides, meaning to the Israelis and to Hamas. And then you would go into negotiations during the 60-day ceasefire period and flush out the details.

[08:05:29]

Now, Hamas's approach has been to insert new details or conditions while they're negotiating. Now we're saying you cannot do that when people are dying. Let's get a ceasefire in place. You won't get everything that you want, but let's get a ceasefire in place and then talk about the details during the ceasefire.

BLACKWELL: Okay, Dr. Bahbah, let me flip this. You say that Hamas cannot add these new conditions while people are dying. My question is, why can't these people get food and fuel and medicine as these terms are negotiated?

BAHBAH: I agree with you 100 percent. I mean, I get tons of messages from people in Gaza begging for food. Some people have said we wish that a nuclear bomb would hit us so that this suffering starvation ends. Now the Israelis control the flow of aid into Gaza. Nobody else does. Nothing gets into Gaza without Israeli approval.

Now the United Nations have said that they wanted secure passages for their trucks to go into Gaza, and the Israelis have not provided the security for those trucks. So we're in a bind right now. People are dying. Israel has to realize that it has a significant responsibility to end this starvation in Gaza.

It's totally unacceptable. There has never been a war like this with starvation in the 20th or 21st century.

BLACKWELL: Now you --

BAHBAH: So people are suffering, and they need food.

BLACKWELL: You do not represent the U.S. Government. and I accept that. And I hope I didn't in the intro suggest that you are a representative of the U.S. Government, you are a supporter of the President.

I want you to listen to a member of his administration though. This is the deputy spokesman for the State Department on aid and what they say is Hamas looning. This was Thursday of this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOMMY PIGOTT, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY STATE DEPT. SPOKEMANS: In terms of the food is that Hamas, through looting the food, has led to weaponization. They are weaponizing aid when they are able to. We have a system in place attempting to get as much aid into Gaza as possible in a way where it is not being looted by Hamas. That is the reality that we're seeing. That is the reality that we're pushing for, trying to get as much aid in there as we possibly can.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: That was Thursday. On Friday, CNN got its hand on a report, an internal USAID report that said that there is no evidence of widespread Hamas looning. There was no indication that there was a systemic Loss due to Hamas interference or theft, or diversion, according to a source close to the report. How can both be true? You support this administration, this president. They're telling us that Hamas is stealing the food when they know that there is no evidence of it happening.

BAHBAH: Well, listen. I see the pictures when trucks go in. I mean, the Egyptians told me that three days ago they sent in 15 trucks of food, and those trucks were able to get in for two or three kilometers inside Gaza. And then a swarm of hungry people got into those trucks, took away everything because they're hungry. And so that is what I see. I'm not sitting in Gaza, but these are the pictures that I see. I hear

from people that they're brothers and sons, go to find the aid trucks, and many of them wonder if they will ever come back alive because it's a dangerous thing to go to the aid trucks.

So, I mean, listen. It's not a political situation. The situation with food is humanitarian. Food has to get in irrespective of who puts what on whose blame. It's irrespective of that food has to be in. People are dying and people are starving. And that's a reality.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Bahbah, when I first spoke with you, this was before the 2024 election. Your first appearance on the show, you told me that you were certain, and these are your words, not mine, that Donald Trump strikes fear into the heart of Benjamin Netanyahu, that he can influence him. And so when you suggest that this is only Netanyahu, it was you who told me on this show that Donald Trump had the influence to get the prime minister do what he wanted.

[08:10:12]

I want to also, read something from before the inauguration. This is November 2023, an op ed that you published. And you wrote this. "If the fight goes on for an extended period, the number of Palestinian casualties will rise to the point that the world's rage will fall upon Israel and those who support it. The Israeli military with all its sophisticated and advanced military equipment is not heroic in killing people stranded in Gaza where no place is safe and where it is an open air killing field." Your words, is the U.S. now a rightful target of the world's rage as you described it?

BAHBAH: Listen, I am, you know, I'm confident that the president is looking for resolution to this conflict. I'm confident that the president does not want to see people hungry. At the same time, I am confident that he's working on getting food in.

Now, what the Israeli calculations are, I do not know. But the president is very committed to that, at least from my perspective.

BLACKWELL: 1,000 people since May shot and killed waiting for food. More than 120 died of starvation in the last week, more than 80 of them children. Dr. Bishara Bahbah, thank you so much for being with me this morning.

BAHBAH: Thank you very much.

BLACKWELL: So what is life like for migrants being held in a detention facility deep in the Florida Everglades? We're starting to hear from some of the men held there. Up next, they'll tell you about what they call hell.

And later, Malcolm-Jamal Warner, of course, you know by now he died this week. Most of us knew him as the actor who played Theo Huxtable. You're going to meet the members of his band, and they share a side of him that you likely have not heard much about.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:16:57]

BLACKWELL: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis says deportation flights have started leaving the so-called Alligator Alcatraz facility. There were a hundred detainees on the first flight said it's unclear where they're going.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R-F): It was never intended to be something where people are just held, and we just kind of twiddle our thumbs. The whole purpose is to make this be a place where that can facilitate increased frequency and numbers of deportations of illegal aliens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: So this facility is in the middle of the Florida Everglades. It's surrounded by really dangerous wildlife. So with the help of 3D models and the testimony of detainees, we're getting a sense of what life is like for the migrants there. Check out this investigation from CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUAN PALMA MARTINEZ (voiceover): This is sad, sad, hopeless. It's a type of torture.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These are the stories of migrants held at Alligator Alcatraz, a new detention facility deep in the Florida Everglades. Using a plan of the site shown during President Trump's visit and photos from media tours and social media, CNN created a 3D model to take you inside the site where hundreds of immigrant detainees are being held. Here are the giant tents where people report being crammed into cells made of chain link fence packed with bunk beds.

CNN spoke with eight detainees to hear firsthand accounts of what conditions are like on the inside. Some asked not to be named for fear of retribution.

GONZALO ALMANZA VALDES, DETAINEE: Because of the way that we have been treated, it has been a very terrible experience.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): Gonzalo Almanza Valdes was detained by ICE when he showed up for a meeting with his probation officer.

VALDES: 32 people per cell or per cage, really, because this is a cage. It's a metal cage strapped in with zip ties.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): Three open toilets are shared by dozens of men who say there's no running water or sewage system. Roger Moreno, who has lived in the US for more than 30 years, told CNN the rain makes it worse.

ROGER MORENO, DETAINEE (voiceover): The toilets, when it rains, they overflow and the cells we're in fill up with sewage. Every time it does rain and toilets clogged up.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): Detainees told CNN the lights are kept on 24 hours a day.

VALDES: We can't sleep. I have to personally put a rag on top of my head to at least try to take a nap because the lights are so bright. There's 24 LED lights in the roof and it's like shining bright.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): Juan Palma Martinez has lived in the U.S. for more than 20 years and was also picked up by ICE at a routine meeting with his probation officer.

MARTINEZ (voiceover): I no longer know when it's daytime or when it's nighttime. I don't sleep. It's affecting mentally, and physically.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): The tents aren't sealed. You can see cracks in this image. And at the height of the hot Florida summer, that means the insects are relentless.

[08:20:04]

MORENO (voiceover): Yesterday the air conditioning went out. We had the whole morning without air conditioning. Lots of mosquitoes came in because they get in from all sides.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): Multiple detainees say they don't get enough food, though they're served three meals a day, and that water is limited.

VALDES: Scan our bracelets. We go into the food hall. The food is very terrible here. Very, very, very small portions. People are having a hard time living here because they're starving. Probably like a quarter cup of rice.

MARTINEZ (voiceover): We've eaten as late as 10 at night. The food at night is cold too. There's never a hot meal.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): Showers are located in a separate tent, and opportunities to shower there are scarce. According to the detainees we spoke with.

VALDES: All the showers are connected to the same water source. There's barely any water pressure. So we have to like, literally put ourselves on the wall right next to the water drainage so we can at least get hit with water.

MARTINEZ (voiceover): They follow you when you're walking to the shower with your hands on your head as if you were a prisoner. The water is very hot. Very hot. They don't give you enough time. Mosquitoes are biting you in the shower. There are more mosquitoes than water.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): The only line to the outside world are phones set up in the cells.

VALDES: Nobody here has been able to see a loved one. Nobody has been able to see a lawyer here. Nobody has. It sucks. It sucks. There's no, like, physical contact with the outside world other than these phone calls.

It's not really more about me. It's about not being able to see my son. He's 6. He's about to turn 7 in November, and I don't even know if I'm going to be able to see him.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): Republican and Democratic lawmakers recently toured the facility. According to one of them, they were not permitted to speak to the detainees. Then State Senator Blaise Ingolia, a Republican, said the facility is in good order.

BLAISE INGOGLIA, FLORIDA CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER: It's actually a very well-run facility. The idea that the detainees are in there and they're in squalid conditions is just not accurate.

ALVAREZ (voiceover): But most distressing for detainees, they say, was that in multiple cases, they haven't appeared in any state or federal detention system since they were arrested. That means families have been unable to track them.

VALDES: We're in the middle of the Everglades with constant reminder that we're locked up in a cage and anything can happen. A hurricane could hit us, and we can all die, and nobody would know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALVAREZ: In a statement to CNN, a spokesperson for the Florida Division of Emergency Management said the following, quote, As stated many times before, these claims are false. The facility is

in good working order and detainees have access to drinking water, showers, and clean facilities for hygiene."

Now, Florida officials anticipate that the population of detainees at Alligator Alcatraz will grow over time to include thousands more. Meanwhile, the Trump administration is in talks with other states who are looking to the makeshift facility in Florida as an example of how they may approach migrant detention. Priscilla Alvarez, CNN, Washington.

BLACKWELL: This image this week shocked me. Stunned me. Look at this. This is from a rehearsal of an interpretive dance based on the elementary school shooting in Uvalde. The woman who came up with the idea and the father of a girl killed at that school three years ago. Both join me. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:33]

BLACKWELL: You know, artists can be sometimes inspired to create great works from horrible events. But when the leader of a dance company in Texas decided she wanted to choreograph a work based on the Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, even her husband had some concerns. Unanswered For 77: The Time Between. It's a multimedia interpretation

of the 2022 shooting that left 19 children and two teachers dead. Now, the title refers to the time between the moment the gunman entered the first classroom and when law enforcement finally went in to try to stop him.

Madi Frampton-Herrera, the creator of Unanswered For 77: The Time Between, is with us, along with Javier Cazares. He's the father of one of the Uvalde shooting victims, Jacklyn Cazares. Thank you both for being with me this morning.

And, Madi, let me start with you with why? Why this interpretation, this piece based on that tragedy three years ago?

MADI FRAMPTON-HERRERA, CREATOR, "ECHOES OF JUSTICE" UNANSWERED FOR 77: THE TIME BETWEEN: Absolutely. Thank you for your question. You know, this really stemmed from my role as an educator here in Dallas. I was looking for ways to protect my own classroom. I had a door at the beginning of the year that it was the first one when in. And I didn't feel like the door was efficient. It had wooden slats. It was easily kicked in. You didn't even need a gun to enter my classroom.

And so I was doing research. And when I was doing research, I came upon the Uvalde story, which I was somewhat familiar with. And then as I got into it, I was like, oh, my gosh, everything failed. And it wasn't just gun safety and things like that. You know, it went way back to a school failure to perform risk assessments. A school failure to follow up on a child that wasn't attending school. It was so much. And then, of course, the day of, you know, there was a lack of law enforcement response.

And, you know, Herrera Dance Project has echoes of justice, and it's a series of injustices. And I was like, we need to bring this to Dallas. We need to bring this to light. This is a story that needs to be known. And that was -- that's it.

BLACKWELL: And so, Javier, when you first heard about this dance project based on this tragedy that took your daughter, what was your initial thought?

JAVIER CAZARES, FATHER OF UVALDE SCHOOL SHOOTING VICTIM JACKLYN CAZARES: I was very hesitant at the beginning, just not knowing what it was about and how we're going to be using my daughter's name and face to the story. So I reached out to the venue, not knowing it was a venue, I thought it was Mr. Herrera. He reached out back to me and we spoke for about two hours and he assured me it wasn't such a thing, you know, he wanted to show the injustices of that day and, you know, I agreed to it and then, of course, he assured me that it was not going to be very gory or anything like that. So I agreed and I'm -- I'm excited to see this.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: And so I'd read that you would participate in a roundtable before it, but you're actually going to see the production too.

CAZARES: Yes, sir, I am. BLACKWELL: OK. And so what should people expect, Madi?

MADI FRAMPTON-HERRERA, CREATOR, "ECHOES OF JUSTICE" UNANSWERED FOR 77: THE TIME BETWEEN: People should expect to see the truth and the story. We do our best to reflect the facts that we have received going down to Uvalde, speaking to people. We did our best to not pull from only online sources. We -- we pulled from people that were there that day. You know, speaking to Mr. Reyes and -- and speaking to parents really opened our eyes to what it felt like.

And I think that, you know, it's one thing to read something and to interpret it, but you have to feel it in order to feel moved to change. So that is -- that is what we're portraying.

BLACKWELL: Madi, the -- the last work I read that your group focused on a 12-year-old that was murdered by police in 1973, more than 50 years ago. This obviously was in 2022. Was there any consideration that the emotions may be too raw and this might be too soon?

FRAMPTON-HERRERA: That was the consideration from my husband. My husband is also the co-founder of Rare Dance Project. And he was like, I don't know, because there's such a divided feeling from this and it is still raw and it is still new, but I feel like people don't want to talk about this. And that was the same thing we faced from 52 years ago. You just have to continue the story, no matter how new, no matter how old, we have to keep bringing it up in order to keep making change. Like they say, the squeaky wheel gets the oil and we're going to keep squeaking until we get something done.

BLACKWELL: Javier, how's the news of this performance resonating in Uvalde with other families of those who -- who were -- were killed that day?

CAZARES: Well, not too many people know. There's only a slight few that know. And of course, they had mixed feelings about it. As far as myself and my family, you can't hurt me more than I'm already hurt. So, I'm just -- I'm trying to picture my mind around this. I'm still trying to figure out this show, but still, I know it's going to be a good thing. Like she said, people still need to know the story. People are already forgetting. And my daughter wasn't just a number or statistics, she did, she was a person. So, her name will be remembered.

TAPPER: Jacqueline Cazares -- Javier Cazares and Madi Frampton- Herrera, thank you both.

CAZARES: Thank you.

FRAMPTON-HERRERA: Thank you so much.

[08:33:16]

BLACKWELL: Our two very different pieces of art sparked debate this week. And now, debate can be a good thing, right? Yet, while one is being celebrated by the Trump administration, the other is allegedly being censored. We'll get into the juxtaposition next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: All right, now to a story that hit my algorithm this week that you might not have seen, especially on T.V. And it's not unusual for art, especially to cross my feed. But this week, two very different works, just a day apart, stood out. This is the first one. It's American Progress by John Gast. Now, the woman you see is Columbia. She represents the United States.

It's supposed to depict manifest destiny with the woman crossing from the east into the west. And she's shown bringing the light behind her, along with railroads and carriages and pushing out the darkness in front of her. If you look closely at the bottom left, looking at that darkness, you can see a group of people being pushed out of frame too.

Those are Native Americans. The piece is from 1872. So why did it resurface now? Well, it was posted by the Department of Homeland Security on social media. On Instagram, the DHS account tagged the White House in their post and a caption read, a heritage -- heritage to be proud of, a homeland worth defending.

OK, now let's apply a standard that the White House has applied to other works of art lately. Is this art that distorts American history? Is it divisive? Well, indigenous communities have thoughts, but the administration doesn't seem to think that this piece is divisive or distortion.

They do have concerns, though, about a different piece of art that crossed my feed this week. And if you know this portrait of Michelle Obama, you know the work of Amy Sherald. And so she's responsible for this piece. It's called Transforming Liberty. Here is the Statue of Liberty modeled after a Black transgender woman. The piece is one of several in an exhibit called American Sublime.

It was scheduled to make a stop at the National Portrait Gallery. That was until Amy Sherald says that the gallery told her that concerns had been raised internally by the Smithsonian. She explains that these concerns led to discussions about removing the work from the exhibition.

[08:39:58]

And she says while no single person is to blame, it's clear that institutional fear shaped by a broader climate of political hostility toward trans lives played a role.

A spokesperson from the Smithsonian -- Smithsonian, sorry, says the museum had proposed including a video that would contextualize the painting. But Sherald ultimately decided to pull her work from the gallery entirely. Here's what she said to NPR back in April. She seemed to see this coming. Not that it was hard for anybody to see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMY SHERALD, PAINTER: We're talking about erasure every day. And so now I feel like every portrait that I make is a counter-terrorist attack that has to counter some kind of attack on American history and on Black American history and on Black Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So the Trump White House has an official whose job is to root out what the administration calls improper ideology at the Smithsonian. Her name is Lindsey Halligan. She's an attorney. And she sent this statement to "The Washington Post."

She says that the Statue of Liberty is not an abstract canvas for political expression, it is a revered and solemn symbol of freedom, inspiration and national unity that defines the American spirit. Removal of this exhibit is a principled and necessary step toward restoring that purpose.

So let me get this straight. We're not at liberty to reinterpret the Statue of Liberty. Remember that. But what these two pieces this week do seem to make clear in this moment, art that is potentially offensive to one group can be overlooked, while another group can pick which parts of the American story are seen, represent real progress and become heritage.

All right, if you're worried about the impact of past discrimination, don't worry. That's been sufficiently handled, at least according to the USDA. And that's why the department says it's no longer giving special support to minority farmers. We'll speak to a farmer about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:46:28]

BLACKWELL: The U.S. Department of Agriculture says it will no longer provide support for minority farmers. They claim past discrimination has been sufficiently handled. Mai Nguyen is with us now, a farmer in Sonoma County, California, and founder of the Asian American Farmers Alliance.

Good to have you. So the USDA has been -- USDA is going to stop using this term socially disadvantaged, which ends certain special grants for Black, Asian, Native American, Hispanic farmers. They say we fixed the problems of the past. Have they fixed them?

MAI NGUYEN, FARMER & FOUNDER, ASIAN AMERICAN FARMERS ALLIANCE: Right. Yes. What evidence do they have that discrimination is over? I would really love to see that. And also in this new rule, they do acknowledge that historic discrimination existed. And so I would also like to see what evidence they have that they've ended the lingering, ongoing effects of historic discrimination.

BLACKWELL: Yes, I've had this conversation in several contexts on this show and others with Black farmers about discrimination. And the scope of saying past is just too narrow. They talk about preferences from local USDA offices even today. So what are some of the challenges that potentially the USDA is not acknowledging that you see?

NGUYEN: Oh, of course. Yes. So as a co-founder of the Asian American Farmers Alliance, you know, one of our members, she's a Japanese American farmer, multi-generational. And, you know, she and her neighbors, her neighbors came as immigrants, white immigrants though, they started at the same time.

But because of the alien land laws, her family was not able to buy land. And so they had that delay in the sort of foundations of their farm, though they kept working just as hard. And then once they did buy land, because of the Japanese internment process, their family was incarcerated, their land taken away from them.

And so then when they came back, they had to totally rebuild. And so this historic discrimination, right, has lingering effects in that they've worked just as hard as those neighbors growing the same kinds of food, and yet are completely set back by several generations. And the impacts of this, right, of the ongoing impacts of this discrimination, as well as taking away this definition, what we're really risking is the food supply for all Americans.

Because when we look at how many Americans are actually farmers, it's less than 2 percent of our population. And of that -- of that percentage, less than 9 percent are under the age of 35.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

NGUYEN: We actually have the oldest workforce for all industries, but the youngest farmers in America are people of color, socially disadvantaged farmers. And so by taking away this definition, taking away programs for farmers like me, we're actually cutting off having farmers to feed you, everyone who's watching, and being able to feed people five years from now, 10 years from now.

[08:50:11]

BLACKWELL: You know, my next question really was why should this matter to people in urban areas, for the people who live in a high rise in Manhattan, or in a cul-de-sac in Reston, Virginia, and you just drove it home, is that food insecurity across the country, and the next generation of farmers we're relying on, on people of color. Mai Nguyen, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

All right, it felt like we lost a family member this week, didn't it? I mean, when we heard about the death of Malcolm-Jamal Warner, so many of us grew up with him on our television screens. But I want you to hear from a group of men who have also shared a stage with him, their memories of the actor's musical side. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:06]

BLACKWELL: I got to say, Malcolm-Jamal Warner's death hit hard this week. Now, we all first met him as an actor, as -- as Theo Huxtable, right? But in the Atlanta music scene, you'd see him sometimes around town jamming with the -- the Biological Misfits.

So for Artist Life this week, I spoke with Malcolm's bandmates who came together to, in Baltimore, we call it pour one out. They came together to remember their friend who was more like family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODNEY EDGE SR., KEYBOARDIST: He was just one of the brothers.

CRAIG GARRETT, CREATOR, BIOLOGICAL MISFITS: He wasn't Theo Huxtable, he wasn't Dr. A.J. Austin. He was, I'm Malcolm-Jamal Warner, I play bass, and oh, by the way, some of you may not know, I play trumpet too. And I want to learn, I want to be a part of this.

My name is Craig Garrett. I guess I'm the creator, the impetus for this Biological Misfits.

LAVERIO BARNES: LaVerio Barnes, they call me DJ LV, and I am the DJ of the group.

DASHILL SMITH, TRUMPETER: Dashiell Smith, I play trumpet, and I'm the de facto front man of the group.

EDGE SR.: Rodney Edge Sr., I am the keyboardist of the group.

MIKE WALTON, SAXOPHONIST: My name's Mike Walton, I play saxophones in the group.

DAVID WHILD, GUITARIST: I'm David Whild, and I play guitar in the group.

MICHAEL MCGOWAN, AUDIO ENGINEER: Michael McGowan, and I'm the audio engineer for the group.

GARRETT: He was interested in participating as a guest, and so he had come to our first show, and then all of a sudden he jumps on stage, and as soon as he does, the room goes crazy.

Second show was even better, and then at that point, it just made sense for us to make a full part of the group.

SMITH: He was obsessed with music. It was such a huge part of his inner being.

EDGE SR.: Because I play bass too, I have so many years and years of just video of him and I just going back and forth of stuff he was working on.

WHILD: He definitely liked to stay on the groove, and when they say there's a joy in repetition, it was definitely him.

BARNES: I think he wanted to show that he belonged also, that's why he worked so hard.

EDGE SR.: He approached it with this youthful joy, and that was one of the great things about it.

BARNES: I told him, the best thing about you, it's like you're not afraid to mess up. You're not afraid to -- to screw it up, because you're going to give it 100 percent. And then one day he's like, oh, LV. I was like, that's my. But it was like a proud moment too, because you could see the work that he put in, and you know all the hours on the back end, and to him to -- to feel like, I got it, man, I got it. As much as he wanted to be proud of his work, quietly he wanted us to be proud of him. But what he didn't know is that we were already proud of him.

SMITH: His spoken word content varied between love and relationships, and he also spoke a lot about manhood, and especially black manhood.

EDGE SR.: For me, he just represented the absolute best of humanity.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: We got some breaking news after Malcolm- Jamal Warner, best known for his role as Theo Huxtable on the "Cosby Show," has died at the young age of 54.

BARNES: Still unbelievable, even to this moment, that we're sitting here talking about that. It's heart-wrenching, and it's something that I still can't -- can't rest my head on.

SMITH: It's utterly devastating.

GARRETT: I thought about his wife and daughter. That's when it changed for me. I knew that his wife and daughter, and she's family to us, she comes to the jam, his daughter dances with us. And so that was the moment, we were on the phone. Yeah, I thought about that.

EDGE SR.: It is numbing, unnerving. How do you find the etymology to describe what that moment feels like?

GARRETT: He was a great human. Forget the accolades, forget the talent. He was just a good person, great father, great husband, great friend, great brother. He just wanted to advocate and give everybody encouragement, and that's what I'm going to remember. He was crazy talented, right? But he was one of the best.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Malcolm's bandmates say they're still thinking about the right way and the right time to honor him, and they ask that you follow next ATL on Instagram for updates. I want to thank the group for sharing their memories with us. Now, if you see something or someone that I should see, tell me. I'm on Instagram, TikTok, X, Bluesky. If you miss a conversation or story, you can check out our show's website and you can listen to the show as a podcast.

[09:00:10]

Remember to tune in tomorrow night. A new episode of Live Aid: When Rock and Roll Took on The World airs Sunday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN. Thank you so much for joining me today. I will see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Smerconish is up next.