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First of All with Victor Blackwell

What Was Actually Accomplished At The Trump-Putin Summit?; Trump: Zelensky Coming To Oval Office For A Meeting Monday; Trump And Putin End Summit With Talk Of Progress But No Deal. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired August 16, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:00:43]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: First of all, we're learning a lot more about what President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed at their summit. And yet it's still clear -- not clear, I should say, how much closer they are to a peace deal now compared to before the summit. President Trump himself set the bar pretty low in an interview immediately after the meeting. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: So I think the meeting was a 10 in the sense that we got along great. And it's good when, you know, two big powers get along.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: And the president is also not being clear about what was actually agreed to.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: In your press conference, you talked about a lot of things that you agreed on and maybe one big issue you don't agree on. Are you prepared to go public with that?

TRUMP: No, I'd rather not. I guess somebody's going to go public with it. They'll figure it out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Ukraine's President Zelensky may know after speaking with President Trump after the meeting. European officials tell CNN part of the conversations involve security guarantees for Ukraine with European and U.S. backing. And this morning we're learning when and notably where Trump and Zelensky will soon meet. CNN's Alayna Treene is in Washington.

Alayna, what have you learned?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, well, first of all, Victor, we know that on Monday, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky is going to be in Washington meeting with President Trump at the White House. We also heard the president say that if that meeting goes well, he is hoping he can get Zelensky and Vladimir Putin in a room together for a more of a trilateral meeting. Of course, something that we know was one of the goals of the United States heading in to that summit yesterday. Now, we also saw the president say kind of actually move away from something he had been hoping for as he was heading into the Alaskan summit.

He said today that instead of going for a cease fire, he believes that after his calls with European leaders and Zelensky that they are going to push directly for a peace deal and kind of abandon this idea of having a cease fire in place first. Now, of course, we did see Zelensky actually post after that kind of hinting at that perhaps he doesn't totally agree with that. He said that the killing needs to stop and they need to see really attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and the bombings need to seize as they look forward. So some, you know, murkiness there. But, you know, by and large, we still do not know a lot of what actually happened in the room when Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin met yesterday. The president is obviously not being forthcoming. You showed that clip of him there.

And so we're still trying to learn exactly what may have been agreed to what they had discussed. But what is clear is we know that President Donald Trump said that it is really up to the Ukrainians, specifically to Volodymyr Zelensky, to decide how this moves forward.

Now, as for the security guarantees, that is a big question because, you know, leading up to this moment, President Donald Trump hasn't been very warm to that idea. He's often said that it's on the Ukraine, the Europeans, excuse me, should be on the Europeans to have those security guarantees in place. All of this, of course, likely to be discussed when Zelensky and Trump meet on Monday here in Washington.

BLACKWELL: Alayna Treene, thank you very much. Let's now go to Russia. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow. What's the reaction been like there?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Russians are pretty happy. And I think one of the reasons is one of the things that Alayna was just saying is that the Russians seem to be with one of their core demands getting their way. One of the things, of course, that Vladimir Putin has said from the get go since President Trump has really been involved in trying to end the fighting in Ukraine is that the Russians don't want an immediate cease fire, but rather they want a negotiations process at the end of which there would be a larger agreement, meaning that the fighting until that agreement is reached would continue with the former president of this country, Dimitri Medvedev.

He came out and he praised the results of that summit and he said that was exactly the case, that Russia is now in a position where there can be negotiations while what Russia calls the special military operation, meaning obviously their military operations in Ukraine, continues. The Russians also happy about the fact that it seems, at least for now, that President Trump's threat of severe sanctions if there's no movement on that process seems to be off the table. The Russians also saying that they believe there's a mechanism now in place for the Russians and the U.S. to speak to one another without any sort of threats or any sort of pressure.

[08:05:14]

So certainly, the Russians not unhappy with what came out of that summit. Victor, also not unhappy with the messaging that came out of that summit. One of the things that we've been seeing here in Russian media calling it a historic handshake between President Putin and Russia and President Trump, especially, of course, the fact that the two of them rode away together in the president's limousine in the beast. That is something that the Russians certainly have picked up on as well, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Frederik Pleitgen in Moscow. Thank you. Let's talk about this and other headlines this morning with retired brigadier general and Democratic candidate for Congress Sean Harris, political commentator and Republican Georgia election board member Janelle King, and political analyst and author Charles Blow. Welcome to you all.

I feel like I have to start with the general, and we're talking about ending a war here. What's your assessment of the summit and this transition, I'm calling it this morning, of pursuing a ceasefire deal to now wanting to go for a peace deal from the White House?

BRIGADIER GEN. SHAWN HARRIS, U.S. ARMY NATIONAL GUARD (RET.): Well, Victor, I tell you, I'll be the first one to say I was glad to see that President Trump actually had the meeting. That was a plus. The reality of it is, as you can, as we're talking about today, we really didn't get anything out of this.

Now, the question will come into play is what will actually happen next week when he meets with the president from Zelensky. But in addition to that is what is President Trump going to do if all this falls apart? Is he then going to put sanctions on Russia? And that way we're going to need to be watching here real soon.

BLACKWELL: And what happened to that? He walked into this saying, if I don't get this cease fire deal, there will be very severe consequences. He didn't get a cease fire. And he's like, no, we'll push that to two weeks down the road. That two weeks to nowhere that rarely ends with announcement or a decision when he puts two weeks on it.

JANELLE KING, (R) GEORGIA ELECTION BOARD MEMBER: Well, I happen to think that a peace deal is better than a ceasefire because a peace deal means a ceasefire, right? When you have peace, then we don't have war. The fact of the matter is I do think that President Trump is operating in the art of the deal. He is negotiating and I think he knew going into this that there was going to be some adjustments. I mean, you can't predict the future, however you can assess it. And I do think that what he was assessing was whether or not he would have a good conversation with President Putin.

I do think that the biggest thing that came out of this is that they started the conversation and that's more than what we can say for the last previous president. And I do think that will lead to some positive gains.

BLACKWELL: Charles, it sounds like the three dimensional chess description that the president's supporters have described for years, that he knows exactly what he's here.

CHARLES BLOW, AUTHOR, "FIRE SHUT UP IN MY BONES" AND "THE DEVIL YOU KNOW": Well, that's the kind of artifice you have to put on it when things are falling apart. And it makes no sense. Right. So this makes no sense for us in the U.S. Putin got a lot out of it. Putin has been a pariah he in all of the West.

There's an international warrant out for his arrest for war crimes in Ukraine. The U.S. Itself has had sanctions on Putin for the last three years, I guess it is. And yet President Trump rolls out literally a red carpet for him and kind of takes him out of that isolation.

So, of course the Russians are cheering this morning for what this meeting meant for them. What it meant for us, what it meant for Ukraine is not at all clear that we got anything out of it. Certainly Ukraine, The optics of the way that he treated Zelenskyy to the way he treated Putin lets you know where his kind of heart is in this debate.

Putin is the aggressor here. Are we going to see any deal that comes out of this that does not reward that aggression that is really important for us and for the Western world to have on the table, have resolved. And you know, if we don't do that, if Trump continues to simply allow people to flatter him and then call them friends because they flattered him to that does not portend well for U.S. diplomacy.

KING: If I can add, you know, just to be clear, we are not at war with Russia and we are not at war with Ukraine. We are the mediator in the room. So showing diplomacy and being able to have a discussion with both parties is a positive thing. The comment about rolling out the red carpet, we didn't just roll out the red carpet. We also flew a B2 over his head. We made sure Russia understood that we are the power structure. And there's no other country in this world that can sit down between these two countries and serve as a mediator. And I think that shows strength.

BLOW: It is wrong to suggest that we are some sort of bystander or China middleman only. We are part of the West. We are part of NATO. Putin is right on the doorsteps of NATO countries. And if we do not hold the ground in Ukraine, not just because their democracy should not have been invaded by this man and by this country in the first place, but because they're right on the doorsteps of the west of NATO, in which case, if any of them are attacked, we must respond.

[08:10:26]

And so it is in our interest, it is in the West's interest, it is in the world's interest that this not be allowed to happen, because there's nothing that says that Putin will stop with Ukraine.

KING: My last point very quickly is that, you know, to be clear, Ukraine, and we made it very clear that Ukraine is not going to be a part of NATO. We do not support Ukraine becoming a part of NATO. So to pretend or act as if we should lean more in that direction kind of sends the message that we support them being a part of NATO. The fact of the matter is we have to make sure that, particularly with Russia, that we have a firm relationship with them, considering the fact that they are literally two miles away from Alaska. So that it's important to make sure we maintain that.

HARRIS: But I would tell you, when you're dealing with Putin, we need to understand that Putin is a thug. And at the end of the day, strength. We have to show strength. And at the same time, we're actually not only representing the United States in our interests, but we also represent the interests of our NATO brothers. And what I saw yesterday was good in some parts.

However, it was also lacking. And the winner that came out of yesterday, I think the whole world agrees, is that Putin was the winner from yesterday. Now, the question is, how are we going to play this thing out here in the next 10 days? And I think President Trump, if he's sitting in Washington, D.C. this morning, talking with his team, he's saying we got to do better, because if not, this thing is going to get completely out of control.

BLACKWELL: Well, remember the last time that Vladimir Zelensky was at the White House in February, and he was shouting him down, telling him he didn't have the cards. Let me bring in one element here. Charles mentioned the flattery of President Trump, and that's the way into endearing oneself to the president geopolitically. Listen to what the president said about something that he was told by Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: Vladimir Putin said something, one of the most interesting things. He said your election was rigged because you have mail-in voting. And he said that to me, it was very interesting because we talked about 2020. He said, you won that election by so much. And that's how he got it. He said, and if you would have won, we wouldn't have had a war.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: One, why is that part of the conversation? And two, why hold up Vladimir Putin as the endorser of free and fair elections in the United States?

HARRIS: And I would tell you, if I could.

KING: Absolutely.

HARRIS: I would tell you that Putin is a trained KGB agent, and that is part of the training. He's using that training to make President Trump feel good about himself. And that's why he's bringing those things up. Because at the end of the day, he wants President Trump to say, whatever you want, I'm going to give it to you. Because you actually said that I did some great things back in 2020.

BLACKWELL: But you know that probably a lot of the people watching know that. Why doesn't the President know that? When he comes on to Hannity and says, well, he told me I actually won 2020. Doesn't he sound like he's falling for the Putin play here?

KING: Well, to be clear, Russia was brought into 2020, and 2020 when the Democrats decided to use this Russian hoax as a means of trying to prevent the President becoming the President once again. So let's be clear. What was really being said is that President Putin does not see America as strong as it was, did not see America as strong as it was prior to Biden coming in. So when Biden came in, they saw it as weak. They saw the weakness on display, and that is why they invaded Ukraine.

That is the message, that is what was being sent there. We can make it about anything else. But the fact of the matter is he sees Trump as strength and he saw Biden as weakness.

BLACKWELL: Or he was telling President Trump what he said over and over for the last six months to endear himself to get whatever deal Putin wants. We got to put a pause here. I know, Charles. I know, I know. We got to put a pause here. But we will have you back in a few minutes. We have a lot more to talk about.

After this meeting with Putin, President Trump says there is no deal until there's a deal. But is any deal a good deal? A member of Congress who sits on the committee closely watching the conflict in Ukraine is here.

Plus my interview with Director Spike Lee. He talks about his new joint with Denzel Washington and reacts to how President Trump is taking on history and culture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPIKE LEE, DIRECTOR, "HIGHEST 2 LOWEST": The citizens of the world know what's happening here in the United States, formerly the so- called beacon of democracy. It don't look like that now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[08:19:43]

BLACKWELL: Here's how President Trump is defending his review of some of the top museums in the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: We want the museums to treat our country fairly. We want the museums to talk about the history of our country in a fair manner, not in a woke manner or in a racist manner.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:20:01]

BLACKWELL: Director Spike Lee has items featured at several Smithsonian museums. And when we recently linked up to talk about his latest film, "Highest 2 Lowest", I asked him what he thought the goals of this review are.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEE: To roll back the clock. To roll back the clock. And what's interesting is that the world leaders, they know what's going on here too. The citizens of the world know what's happening here in the United States, formerly the so-called beacon of democracy. It don't look like that now.

BLACKWELL: And you don't think America is still the beacon of democracy?

LEE: You know, you got to choose countries or people, individuals by their actions. And I don't think that the act is now in this administration show. That doesn't look like the beacon of democracy. Beacon of democracy to me. In my opinion, I'm just one kid from Brooklyn, New York. So what were you going to say?

BLACKWELL: You know, this is the question that an old kid.

LEE: An old kid.

BLACKWELL: An old kid. Now, a question I've had several times to several artists is that how much does the political environment influenced the art? And specifically in your case, what's funded, like, could do the right thing, get funding today in this environment to be made?

LEE: I think so. That film only cost $6.5 million. But I'm glad you brought up that point, my brother, because "Do The Right Thing" was done knowing that the -- in that that fall was going to be the mayor's, you know, Koch had to go, in my opinion. And we had graffiti in the film saying dump cops.

So that was made specifically in that tense racial era in New York City, and wanted David Dinkins to be the first African American mayor. And he won. I'm not saying it was the film that did that, but there was this feeling like Koch had to go. There was too many racial BS, you know, going around.

And then if you look at it in the "Do The Right Thing", Ray Raheem is choked to death and a chokehold by NYPD, which prompted the character I played, Mookie, to throw the garbage can to win the Sal's Famous Pizzeria.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about Zorhan Mamdani. Have you backed him for there?

LEE: Not officially. I'm going to vote for him.

BLACKWELL: Well, that's the same thing, I imagine.

LEE: I guess it makes it official.

BLACKWELL: I guess that makes it official. Let me ask you why. Why does he have your vote other over former Governor Cuomo, Mayor Adams? Why Mamdani?

LEE: We have to move forward. Have to move forward for equality for New Yorkers to make this again, the greatest city in the world. And you look at the people who are back in these other candidates, you know, they're in the past. So he's ahead now.

But look, you know, I'm a big sports fan and I've been in too many games where you think the game is over, especially being Nick fan. So I'm not count my single look, I'm going to, you know, and also, yes, this is official endorsement.

This is the year living dangerously. That applies New York City, not just United States of America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Well, we did, of course, talk about the new film. "Highest 2 Lowest" is Spike Lee's fifth joint with Denzel Washington. That part of our interview is coming up a little later.

First, though, what actually came out of the summit between President Trump and Putin? Well, ask a key member of Congress who is also part of the Ukraine caucus in the House. Next.

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[08:28:57]

BLACKWELL: European leaders say more talks need to happen after President Trump's summit with Russia's Vladimir Putin in Alaska. And we learned this morning that President Trump will meet next week with Ukraine's President Zelensky on Monday at the White House. Now, the goal is not a ceasefire deal, but a peace agreement.

Congressman Gabe Emo is with us now. He's a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee and a member of the Ukraine Caucus in the House. Congressman, thank you for being with me.

I read your statement immediately after the summit. Let's put it up. Here's a line from it. "Letting Putin drive a settlement risks destabilizing Europe and signals to our undemocratic adversaries that there are no consequences for breaching borders and international law."

In that context, what's your reaction to the president's decision not to pursue a ceasefire deal, but now try to get this peace deal?

REP. GABE AMO (D) MEMBER, UKRAINE CAUCUS: Well, look, I think the fact of the matter is that Vladimir Putin got to be in pole position yesterday. We quite literally saw the red carpet rolled out for him. We saw him in the beast, the president's limousine, and ultimately there was no resolution from the conversation, meeting the summit, whatever you want to call. It didn't yield anything for the American people, for the cause of peace, and most importantly, for the Ukrainian cause.

[08:30:23]

And ultimately, we need a long term lasting peace that involves and puts in a primary position, the Ukrainian people. So the only good thing to have come out of yesterday is the news that President Zelenskyy will meet with President Trump and be backed by our European allies to move forward.

BLACKWELL: What's your degree of confidence in the process now? So now if the White House is pursuing a peace deal and Zelenskyy is coming to the White House and there's a European leader who tells my colleague, Nick Payton Walsh, that they're discussing Article 5-style security guarantees, would this not be the path toward that piece?

AMO: I certainly believe that is the pathway indeed to both have a series of concessions from Russia and Vladimir Putin, in addition to the security assurances that the United States can provide alongside our European allies in that style of Article 5 would be on that path.

We have seen an inconsistent response from the President. Instead of talking about the path towards peace, we saw him highlight the fact that Vladimir Putin is, you know, baiting him hook, line and sinker on his theories about the 2020 election.

So we have a distracted, unfocused, undisciplined president when we need a champion for diplomacy, for peace, and for providing the security assurances that Ukraine requires.

BLACKWELL: Yes. To get those security assurances, what has been discussed. Now, there is not a one to one linkage, but there might have to be some ceding of land in the discussion. What would you want the Russian concession to be in this equation?

AMO: Well, first and foremost, I don't want Vladimir Putin to think that his territorial conquests can go unmet by a response from Europe from the United States. And so before we get far down the road of talking about territory, we need to start from the place of this was an unlawful seizure of land. This was anti-democratic, and I hesitate to put that as a primary basis for the peace that the Ukrainian people deserve.

BLACKWELL: Congressman Gabe Amo, thank you.

All right, coming up, can history be racist or woke? While we may be about to find out.

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[08:37:47]

BLACKWELL: America turns to 50 next year. And ahead of that milestone, President Trump wants a review of exhibits and other materials at some of the top museums in the country. And he says he wants history to be fair, not woke or racist.

Shawn Harris, Janelle King and Charles Blow are still with us. So let's start here with this review. Janelle, I'll come to you first to ensure that exhibits and materials at the Smithsonian celebrate American exceptionalism, remove divisive or partisan narratives, and restore confidence in our shared cultural institutions.

The president also signed an executive order that claims the Smithsonian is run by an ideology that promoted narratives that portray American and Western values as inherently harmful and oppressive. You agree with this approach?

JANELLE KING, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I agree that, you know, there is something to taking down bad narratives rather than statutes. Right. I think we need to understand, if anything, what I want to see is history being taught correctly. There are so many times when we hear about people and there's an assumption that they were a certain type of way simply because of the era and the time when they existed.

But there's no real research and no one knows where they really (INAUDIBLE) issue. So what I'm hoping is that what will come out of this is truth around the history rather than just building these narratives based on assumptions.

BLACKWELL: Charles?

CHARLES BLOW, AUTHOR, "FIRE SHUT UP IN MY BONES" AND "THE DEVIL YOU KNOW": Well, this, what they're doing is pushing a narrative. This is a narrative. We can't divorce this from any other part of a racial narrative that they say that they're trying to fight.

Controlling culture, narrative shaping and myth making are how you get oppression. And we have always understood that. The white supremacists understood that during Reconstruction. So they pushed this black brute kind of mentality and used that as oppression. The daughters of the Confederacy understood this to put up. They put up these Confederate monuments decades after the Civil War, and often in places where there was no fighting whatsoever.

Racist educators understood this. So textbooks included the happy slave narrative up and until and including the 1960s.

[08:40:03]

And Donald Trump understands this now control, narrative, myth making and narrative shaping. And that is how you get full-fledged oppression and you lose track of what the truth actually is. All of these woke and DEI, none of those adjectives make sense. Things actually happened.

We have to tell that history of things actually happening. We can put those things into some sort of context around why people might have behaved the way that they did. But the things actually did happen. If we are trying to say we are uncomfortable with the fact that things happened and we want to change or cushion or soften those things, then that is really corrosive to our culture and to our history.

BRIG. GEN. SHAWN HARRIS (RET.), (U.S ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: And Victor, I agree with my colleague. At the end of the day, if we start trying to control the narrative of what happened in the past and completely change it, we could lose our country.

I think it's very important that we as Americans understand the past, learn from it, and then continue to move forward. And right now, what I see that's coming out of Washington D.C. it seems like we're trying to change the narrative. It seems like we're trying to water down what happened.

BLACKWELL: And here's Janelle and I see you shaking your head here. Here's what I don't understand. If the administration says they want to eliminate the divisive narratives and things that divided this country, then why are they putting back up Confederate monuments and memorials?

They are bringing back the monument at Arlington National Cemetery that Congress ordered to be removed. Now, if your goal is to unify the country, why does this go back up? And according to the cemetery's website, it depicts an enslaved woman as a mammy holding the infant child of a white officer and an enslaved man following his owner to war. The lost cause narrative here.

How does that eliminate the divisive narratives in this country bringing this back?

KING: Well, first we have to know that when you talk about unification, right, unifying means accepting the good, the bad and the ugly. You know, tearing these monuments down and pretending as if these people never existed, is doing the very thing that you claim that they are trying to do.

We have to make sure we understand that. Controlling the narrative is not something that Republicans have entered into the chat. This is what Democrats have entered into the chat. It's trying to make it seem as though because we've had such an ugly past, which we've always acknowledged as Republicans. We now have to pretend that these people never existed.

If you don't educate our young people on where we've come from and how far we have come, then they are bound to repeat it. So I am all for making sure that we understand the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Just so you know, to be clear, I am not in support of, you know, trying to rewrite it to make our country look like it was better than what it was. The fact of the matter is, we've done some horrible things, and we have done some great things. And being the first country to abolish slavery is also a major milestone, and we need to make sure that's acknowledged as well. But you can't tell that story without telling both sides.

BOWL: Yes, but the monument in Arlington is fictional. It has nothing to do with history. It is made up to portray a particular kind of story about slaves being happy and following white men into war to preserve slavery has nothing to do with history. It is not real. These are not real people. These are not historical figures. This is the problem here.

KING: It's a conversational piece, right? Because -- BOWL: It's not a conversational piece.

KING: Well, yes, it is a conversational piece because of the fact that now we do have to have a conversation about the black soldiers that were -- that did participate in the war. I don't think a lot of people know that they were black soldiers.

BLACKWELL: Well, these are black soldiers.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: What we're talking about is that when you mentioned, you know, the Confederacy, there were black soldiers that were a part of the Confederacy. And I do think that these type of things creates conversation.

Now, do we need to look at whether or not it's necessary and needed and all that stuff? That could be debated. But what I'm saying is, if something was there before, I think we should leave it so that we can continue to encourage people to have better conversations. We can disagree.

BOWL: Having a symbol of a person's oppression fictionalized and mythologized in places of prominence was done on purpose to assert supremacy and to tell people for whom their ancestors were told that you are less than. And we're going to show you and memorialize that in a way. And say this must stay here forever is actually an insult to black people who are descended from the slaves who are depicted in that particular monument and also in other monuments.

It's really insulting to say that black people or anyone else has to suffer this because this is history.

[08:45:02]

It wasn't even history. These were very often the monuments were put places where there was no fighting whatsoever. They are not memorializing a battle at all. They're put up often in places of prominence, government buildings to say to people, this belongs to us.

BLACKWELL: Well, look at us right now on the Smithsonian. How do you tell the true, full story of the American-Indian experience in the country without talking about the effort to genocide against American- Indians?

How do you tell the natural history story about how American buffalo were depleted without that attempted genocide? If you want to hear the full story, that's part of it.

HARRIS: I'd imagine.

BLACKWELL: You can't take that out of the Smithsonian.

KING: No, I think it's up to us to educate ourselves. You know, you obviously can't tell a full story from a little snippet or one image either. But I see these things as how far we have come. I mean, look at us right now. I mean, we are an all black cast sitting here right now having an intelligent discussion. All of us have achieved success.

I mean, this is exciting for me. So I think that, you know, showing where we have come from --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

KING: -- and where we are today sends a greater message than anything else.

BLACKWELL: All right, we got to wrap it there. Shawn Harris, Janelle King, Charles Blow. Thank you. It was a great conversation.

KING: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Spike Lee teaming up with Denzel Washington again for a new movie out this weekend. My conversation with Spike about "Highest 2 Lowest," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:54]

BLACKWELL: There's a new Spike Lee joint out this weekend, "Highest 2 Lowest," it's about a music mogul who has to make a moral choice after a kidnapping. And for a fifth time, the acclaimed director is teaming up with Denzel Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: This is the fifth movie. So we now have "Highest 2 Lowest," "Inside Man." Let me see if I got all of them "Mo Better Blues."

SPIKE LEE, DIRECTOR AND PRODUCER: In order. In order.

BLACKWELL: In order. In order. Okay. Was "Mo' Better Blues" first, then "Malcolm X"?

LEE: Yes.

BLACKWELL: OK.

LEE: "He Got Game."

BLACKWELL: "He Got Game." "Inside man."

LEE: And now "Highest 2 Lowest."

BLACKWELL: And now "Highest 2 Lowest."

DANZEL WASHINGTON, ACTOR: Well, fair enough. But if it's about me, then you can't expect me to pay $17.5 million for somebody else's son, if it's about me.

ASAP ROCKY, SINGER: Well, then his blood is going to be on your hands, then. How you want it?

WASHINGTON: Nah, man. Come on now,.

ROCKY: Nigga, this ain't no negotiation. This a day of reckoning. You not God no more. I am.

WASHINGTON: All right, listen. God give you everything you want, right? No. God give you everything you need. So the question is, what do you need? How can I help you? I ain't saying I'm God, but I can help.

BLACKWELL: What is it about Denzel Washington that makes this partnership work?

LEE: No one. We trust each other. There's love and the work. And I'd have to say real quick that -- and I know I might get, you know, criticized for this and. But I think Denzel Washington is the greatest living actor today.

Now, if you ask Martin Square stakes, he's going to say Robert De Niro. If Sidney Lament was alive, he would say Al Pacino. France would say Brando. Brando's not alive. But it's all love and, you know, Scorsese my guy. Brando. So it's -- it's not -- it's not just LeBron. LeBron, Michael Jordan, goat thing.

It's just I never worked with other actors and. And Denzel, I mean, he amazes me. He amazes me every time we work together. And it's a blessing that this is our fifth time dynamic duo, you know.

BLACKWELL: Is there a six in the works?

LEE: Well, here's the thing. Denzel, for a period of time was talking about retirement. So I was saying this is the last one together, but he has like, three more things lined up. I'm praying on my knees that we do that. We get to do a six for six.

BLACKWELL: Well, we'll be looking forward to that one. This was your first time, I understand working with ASAP Rocky, though, right? So what was that like for you?

LEE: He's a phenomenal actor. And notice I didn't say rapper. He is -- when he's in front of the camera, he's an actor. I told him last night, you know, we had the premiere here in LA. I said, your next film, you can't be a rapper. You got show us your range.

And here's it -- and Denzel is such a powerful actor that if you get. I mean, you got to go toe toe.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

LEE: And like in the ring. And Denzel and Rocky were exchanging blows, but it lift the whole scene up with the confrontation and the movie at the same time, too.

BLACKWELL: And there was a rap battle in this between the two of them.

LEE: Well, it wasn't scripted like that. But it turned into that. In fact, during the scene, Rocky's character. His character's name is Yung Felon, he says, well, we turn into rap battle. Denzel's dropping bars.

BLACKWELL: So we talk about the disparities in the coverage of. And the search for missing people of color. And you had just the mention of Ebony Alerts --

LEE: Right.

BLACKWELL: -- and that not being passed and made law in New York State. Why was that important?

LEE: Any film I do at the opportunity to slip in some stuff that critiques what's happening in the world, I do it and hopefully without making the story, you know, off the rails.

[08:55:10]

But there's way, you know, that you could do it and just, you know, have these little things out there and people think about and it's been well demonstrated that missing children, people of color are not given the same, what you want to call it as other people get it. So that was a place to get that little nugget in there. But not -- not really get off the story.

BLACKWELL: Yes, subtlety. We caught it. We caught it.

LEE: Oh, what's that word again?

BLACKWELL: Subtleties, Mike (ph). Subtlety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right. Thanks to Spike Lee for the conversation. His new joint "Highest 2 Lowest" is in theaters now and it's streaming starting September 5th. If you see something or someone I should see, tell me, I'm on Instagram, TikTok, X and Bluesky and you can listen to our show as a podcast on your favorite platform.

First of all is back here next Saturday, 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Smerconish is up next.

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