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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Rest Or Resist: Black Women Speak Out On Protest Strategy; Some Black Women Ask: Should We Go To "No Kings" Protest?; Supreme Court Signals Openness To Gutting Voting Rights Act; Rep. James Clyburn, (D- SC), Is Interviewed About Trump Threatens To Cut Programs, Says Dems Made "Mistake," Previews New Book "The First Eight"; Government Shutdown Enters 18yh Day, No Signs Of Compromise; GOP Speaker Cancels 4th Week Of House Votes Amid Shutdown; Indigenous Villages In Alaska Face Absolute Devastation; D'Angelo's Death Puts Focus On Pancreatic Cancer. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired October 18, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:01:01]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, first of all, a lot of Black women say that they are committed to protecting democracy, regardless of whether you see them out of protest today. In fact, if the millions of people that organizers say will be at No Kings marches across the country today, if they show up, they'll be catching up to where the majority of Black women have been since November because 92 percent of Black women voted for Vice President Kamala Harris over Donald Trump. That's according to CNN's exit polls. No other group voted more abundantly for one candidate in 2024.

And their views of the president really have not changed since. A recent Pew survey found a majority of Black women do not approve of Trump, 87 percent disapprove, 71 percent strongly disapprove. Black women also think the country is going in the wrong direction. According to a recent CNN poll, more Black women believe that than women overall than all adults. Polling also shows that Black women still firmly think protecting democracy is an important issue.

I mention all that because there is this narrative that's emerged after the election that Black women are staying out of politics. And we first talked about this the Saturday after the election. I want to show you some of the headlines here. They popped up since. "It's time for Black women to be selfish."

"Black women showed up at the polls. So don't expect us to show up to your Trump protest." Rest is resistance: Black women ignore Trump to find peace." How about this one? "Not this time. Black women are sitting out this round of Trump protests."

And keep in mind, Black women are bearing the brunt of a key part of the current administration's policies, particularly cuts to the federal workforce and DEI initiatives, which is being blamed for the rise in unemployment among Black women. The very reality, the 92 percent voted in hopes to avoid. So when we talk about rest versus resistance is or the word we should be using or in this moment for the 92 percent at least, is it about rest and resistance?

Here for the conversation, LaTosha Brown, co-founder of Black Voters Matter. Mary-Pat Hector is an activist, organizer and CEO of Rise and Brooke Leigh Howard is a reporter with the Atlanta Journal Constitution and a co-host of "Its UATL" podcast.

And let me start with the reporting here, Brooke, on what is the goal for these protesters today? More than the spectacle, which I talked with one of the organizers earlier, what do they want to come out of this day?

BROOKE LEIGH HOWARD, BLACK CULTURE REPORTER, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION: I think protesters are just looking for some sort of change for people to realize, like, we're serious, like there's no way that you're going to get away with this abuse of power that's been happening with the Trump administration. I think that with Black women, we have been so vocal with how we feel. We've always been vocal, even before the election. So for us to be like, you know what, we're going to sit out, we're going to chill, we're going to do whatever we have to do, it is for our own mental health. But at the same time, we're still going to be fighting in our own way while everyone else is out on the streets. We're doing it in any other aspect, definitely.

LATOSHA BROWN, CO-FOUNDER, BLACK VOTERS MATTER FUND: You know -- and you know to Brooke's point, I think that we also can't let sensational headlines define what's really happening. Black women have never not worked and we have never not been on the front lines. When pain is happening to ourselves and our communities and even other folks, we have always been on the front lines, just as we've continued to be on the front lines here. Like, I think that there has been about what you're hearing from Black women around rest has been more about balance. But it hasn't been because we've left the front lines.

We know that what is happening when you're looking at 20 percent of the lay of the shutdown, right, affects Black folks. Twenty percent of those are Black people. When we're looking at the cuts, the deep cuts that are happening in food programs, when we're looking at free lunch programs, even states like Mississippi, the majority of Black people live in the south. States like Mississippi, 99.7 percent of the students in Mississippi are on free or reduced lunch.

[08:05:14]

You're looking Atlanta -- Georgia, which is like 58 percent all across the South. So we don't have the luxury --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BROWN: -- to not be engaged in a fight that is literally starving our children, cutting money, taking food off our tables.

BLACKWELL: Mary-Pat, let me read for you what Erin Haynes. You know Erin Haynes --

MARY-PAT HECTOR, CEO, RISE: I do.

BLACKWELL: -- at the 19th, she wrote this after the Hands Off Protest in April. She said that "The Black women I talked to said that they're being strategic, pragmatic, and creative about what their resistance looks like now, preparing for a long fight ahead and rejecting narratives that suggest their lack of visibility in this moment translates into inaction."

HECTOR: Absolutely. And I mean, at the end of the day, we know what's happening right now in this country is mainly impacting Black women. This is something that we projected even before President Trump was elected into office. We knew what could be. And what could be is happening in this country right now.

I will say that Black women are experiencing extreme economic hardships. They're bringing their communities closer more than ever. And we really have to focus on community because what's happening on the other side is they're doing that. And so to say that Black women are just completely hands off is a complete and total understatement to the work that's actually being done and especially negating the work that's being done for women like LaTosha and others, not just in the state of Georgia, but across the country.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And so I pulled some of the video from these protests. This was the first No Kings a few months ago, and we pulled them from, where is this? Hi, and tell me what cities we're looking at. Some Jackson, Mississippi.

We have video from Jackson, Mississippi, video from Detroit as well. Some of the Blackest cities in America. And the reflection here of the crowd does not reflect the demographics there. But you say don't look at the crowds, look at the people doing the work.

BROWN: That's right. I think that's what's most important. And then when you're looking at it, you know, different people, different communities, there are different actions. There are actions that are happening every single day.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BROWN: People are protesting with their dollars. People are protesting. Let's talk about even from the Target Protest, that is a Black led protest that is happening that Black women have actually been fueling from day one. And so I think that there are things that we are doing that oftentimes we get marginalized based on how others see the way that we show up in ways that they think we show -- we should show up or not. But I think that you're going to see people at the No Kings Protest in support of.

But I think that there are a myriad of ways that we're protesting and showing our power and organizing our communities. And to Mary-Pat's point, I think what's really important, what we recognize in this moment, is that we've got to build a safety net and look out for each other. We've got to build community. And so we see a lot from mutual aid groups that are really doing work right now that are organized, and how are we going to address some of the pain that's happening.

BLACKWELL: So this week, the Supreme Court heard arguments related to a Louisiana lawsuit that could weaken the Voting Rights Act of 1965. State lawmakers initially drew a map that of the six congressional districts only had one that gave the opportunity for Black leadership in that district. After there was a suit from Black Louisianans, there was a second district that was drawn, and then white community members sued. And now the Supreme Court is considering whether race in the majority -- minority majority districts will continue after the Voting Rights Act allowed for them. You were there.

BROWN: Yes.

BLACKWELL: And tell me the import of what is happening, because obviously this would impact more than just this district in Louisiana.

BROWN: Not only were we -- was I there, but there were people from seven different southern states. We had buses that came up from seven different states. We know that this will be devastating. We released a report with Fair Fight that talks about that if Section 2 is taken out, what it does is it essentially renders the Voting Rights Act null and void, that it doesn't have any teeth, it won't have any power. It could literally reshape political landscape in the south forever.

We're back at pre-1965. It could eliminate up to 20 seats of Black and Brown representatives that are in office, Black in particular in four to five Latino seats that are in office right now. It won't only have implications on the federal level, but it can also have implications on the state level and the local level. So when you're looking at Black and Brown representation, it could be altered forever, at least altered in the way that it goes against the very thing of the Voting Rights Act.

The interesting thing is the courts just a year ago, right, in a very similar case in Alabama ruled, in fact, that Alabama is a state that has 25 percent of the population of African-American, but there was only one seat, one congressional seat that African-Americans could be competitive in terms of picking their representative. And they told them, no, you can't do this. Like, you've got to create another seat. This is a conservative -- the same conservative court said that the state of Alabama was so belligerent and not doing that, they had to send in a special master. But also you're seeing -- if you're looking at the case from Louisiana and Alabama, they're essentially the same.

[08:10:17]

So the question for me is, what's the difference now? The only difference now is who is in office. Other than that, how are you going to move against your own ruling? This was your ruling a year ago.

BLACKWELL: Brooke.

HOWARD: I absolutely agree. This is just -- it's obviously -- it's obvious that they're trying to take the country back to a certain time, right, where it's -- they're trying to disenfranchise a certain group of people. They're trying to take us back where we have less of a voice.

So I agree with LaTosha. It's just -- it's a slap in the face. It's -- and I also agree with what you're saying, too, like, this is very strategic with who's in office. Like, what changed over the last year?

BLACKWELL: Well, actually, in the next block, we've got Congressman Jim Clynburn on, and I've got this op-ed written by Republican Congressman Ralph Northam (ph), and the headline is, Trump should Lean on South Carolina to eliminate Jim Clynburn's District. So we'll talk with him about that and get your thoughts on that as well.

One more thing here. I mean, we've talked about how Black women are feeling the brunt of this, but there's this interesting Washington Post Ipsos poll that seems to be an outlier. The question was, is the president doing things that are fundamentally changing the country? And the numbers here I found to be striking. Overall, 67 percent of women said that he is.

Eighty-two percent of white women said that he is doing things to fundamentally change the country. But Mary-Pat, only 36 percent of Black women say so. So with these changes and so much that is impacting Black women, what do you think informs that?

HECTOR: I think what really informs that is that Black women feel things first. And not only do we feel things first, we have the foresight. Again, Black women knew what was coming post or pre-2024. And we're experiencing -- first of all, I think what history shows us, Victor, is that when Black women feel and when Black women see, the world feels and eventually the world will see. And I will say this protest today is showing us that the world is definitely feeling it.

Economically, we're going to see people talking a lot about health care. And I hate to say it, a lot of Black women are pushing the narrative that they want rest because this is something that we had foresight around.

BLACKWELL: All right, Mary-Pat, LaTosha, Brooke, we're going to come back to you after we speak with the congressman to get your thoughts on that and the shutdown and other things. But thank you for the first segment.

From No Kings now to no Congress for a fourth straight week, the House is not going to meet, meaning the shutdown will not be ending anytime soon. So what's going on? Congressman Jim Clyburn is here next.

Plus, we'll take a moment to pay tribute to D'Angelo and get real about the risks Black people face from the disease that took him way too soon.

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[08:17:58]

BLACKWELL: Thousands of federal workers fired. Others facing the possibility of missing paychecks heading into the holidays, programs that help vulnerable people on the chopping block. All of that is happening because of the ongoing government shutdown. And what is Congress doing? Well, I'll tell you what they're not doing, meeting. Speaker Mike Johnson is not allowing the House to go back into session for a fourth straight week next week, meaning the shutdown will likely not end either.

Democratic Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina is with us. He's a former member of the Democratic leadership in the House, and he's the author of the upcoming new book, "The First Eight, A Personal History of the Pioneering Black Congressman Who Shaped a Nation."

Congressman, welcome back to the show. We'll leave some time at the end to talk about that book, but let me first start with the president. And he says that congressional Democrats have made one big mistake in this the shutdown fight. Here he is in an interview that will air in full tomorrow on Fox. Let's watch.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think they could just stay out forever. I mean, to be honest with you. Now, what we're doing is we're cutting Democrat programs that we didn't want because, I mean, they made one mistake. They didn't realize that that gives me the right to cut programs that Republicans never wanted, you know, giveaways, welfare programs, et cetera. And we're doing that and we're cutting them permanently.

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BLACKWELL: What's your reaction, his assessment that Democrats essentially handed him the axe?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me, Victor. The president is known for perfectly, and I think there's a great bit of that. The fact of the matter is what Democrats are doing is informing the American people as to what is going on with this administration. And they're beginning to see it more clear every day. And that's why you see all of these people meeting in nation's capitals and other nooks and crannies all across the country today, letting this president know that he wishes to be king.

[08:20:04]

But that is not the kind of government the Founding Fathers left us and not us. And that is not the kind of government that we are going to leave to our children and our grandchildren. He is going to be held accountable. The Republicans are going to be made to account for this legislation that literally eliminates health care for families all over the country. And we are going to hold this out to the American people in such a way that's going to make him more and more uncomfortable and make the American people more and more educated about exactly what it is this administration is doing.

BLACKWELL: OK, so let's talk some numbers here. You talk about discomfort. There will be a lot of people who are obviously discomfort, uncomfortable during the shutdown, but uncomfortable with these increases as well. The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities crunched the numbers on the costs of premiums in some states based on now marketplace windows are opening. And they found that -- here's two examples, a family of four in Kentucky making $130,000 is facing a $12,200 increase in premiums next year if the subsidies end.

In Maine, they found that a typical 60-year-old couple making $85,000 will see a $28,900 annual premium increase. Now Democrats are dug in on making those subsidies permanent. But you talk about discomfort. How long do you expect this shutdown to go if Republicans don't budge and Democrats don't, does this go to Thanksgiving? As Senator Kennedy said, does it go into Christmas?

CLYBURN: Well, theoretically, yes, it could, but I don't think it will because the fact of the matter is what will be happening all over the country today in the follow up to this is going to educate people to the extent that they are going to make this administration respond not to the will of the people, but to people's needs, to people's dreams, to people's aspirations. That's what this is about. And that's what they do not want to happen. That's why in some of this legislation they postponed it until after the next election, knowing full well if the people understood the broad impact and the severe impact that these bits of legislation will have on their everyday lives, they would rebel. And that's why we are being proactive in getting people to understand this is what's happening now and there's some other things that just around the corner.

So the numbers that you just gave, those numbers are going to be in people's mailboxes within the next 30 days of exactly what it's going to be costing them. That's why you see Marjorie Taylor Greene now saying what she's saying down there because her children have told her exactly what their budgets are going to look like if this legislation becomes fruition.

BLACKWELL: Congressman, let me ask you about this op-ed that I just held up from Congressman Ralph Norman, who's running for South Carolina governor. He wrote an op-ed. The title of it, Trump should lean on South Carolina to eliminate Jim Clyburn's district. He wrote this, "Wrong-headed and divisive racial preferences have done major damage to America and to the African American population. Diversity, equity and inclusion has not made America's company stronger and has been a boon for racial grifters. Affirmative action was unhelpful while poor Black children were passed from grade to grade in failing schools.

President Trump can put pressure on South Carolina to change its district and give our people the representation they truly deserve."

Yours is one of seven congressional districts, the only one blue district in the state. What's your response to the congressman?

CLYBURN: He's running for governor. He's not running very well for governor. And the kind of intelligence he's displaying in that op-ed piece will tell you why he is not running well. You know, he wants a system rig to favor him and the people that he speak for rather than to compete against people like me and the others that make up South Carolina. Having one congressperson out of seven gives African Americans in this state 14 percent of the representation, but he thinks is only fair if white Republicans get 100 percent of the representation.

[08:25:13]

That's not the way South Carolinians or the American people think. Now, of that seven, only one is a Democrat, and that's yours truly. Yet Democrats make up 40 percent to 45 percent of the population, but he thinks Republicans ought to have 100 percent of the representation. That's the kind of thinking that is pretty sophomoric. And I don't think the South Carolinians think the same way that he thinks about it.

So that op-ed piece is a reflection of who and what he is.

BLACKWELL: Before we go, I do want to talk to you about the book, "The First Eight, A Personal History of the Pioneering Black Congressman Who Shaped the Nation." Those first eight, all in the reconstruction era of the latter part of the 19th century. And you put on there they are the first date, you are the ninth, why these stories, why this book now?

CLYBURN: You know, I started writing this book about five years ago, a little more, because I was asked about the pictures that I keep on the wall of my office. And when I was explaining to the questioner who they were, one of them said to me, I thought that you were the first. And I kind of playfully said, no, no, long before I was the first, there were eight. And that's what started me to writing this book.

But then in the middle of the book, January 6, 2021 happened, and I recognize what was going on that day, because what was going on on that day is exactly what went on in the presidential election of 1876, which led to Jim Crow. And so I then refocused the book, not just on the history of the first eight, but on the impact of the 1876 election. What happened that led to Jim Crow, which started by one vote, a vote of eight to seven in the committee, a vote of 185 to 184 in the Electoral College, that is what led to the years of Jim Crow and why there are 95 years between number eight and number nine in representation in Congress here in South Carolina. And so that's what this book is about. This book is going to be very informative for people who would like to know what is it that's going on here.

What is President Trump doing? He's doing exactly what Hayes did in 1876 and exactly what the courts did with the slaughterhouse cases and other cases that led us to 95 years without representation of African Americans here in South Carolina when the state was majority African American. Fifty-five percent --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CLYBURN: -- of the state was African American, but it had zero representation and the laws that they put in place in order to make that work is what you see what the Supreme Court is doing now with the challenge that you talked about earlier there in Louisiana. If that case is successful and the Supreme Court put rules the way people think they will, we will be right back to where were in doing Jim Crow. And that's why I call Project 2025 Jim Crow 2.0. And this book is a primer for anybody who wish to know what is going on around us today.

BLACKWELL: Congressman Jim Clyburn, always appreciate the conversation. Thank you.

Our reaction to that interview and the impact of the ongoing shutdown next.

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[08:33:23]

BLACKWELL: Before the break, South Carolina congressman Jim Clyburn told us that he does not think that the government shutdown will last through Christmas, but he acknowledges that it could. Latasha, Mary Pat and Brooke are back here with me.

Mary-Pat, let me start with you. Your reaction, what you heard from the congressman.

HECTOR: Listen, the congressman has been holding the line for the American people for quite some time, and I'm happy that he is doing that now. We know that this government shutdown could last a very long time, but I'm happy to see that more progressive candidates or elected are starting to fight back in a way in which they can to protect the American people.

You know, we've been talking a lot about black women, but the truth is that nearly half, according to a poll done by the Highland Project, 8 out of 10 black women feel that this country right now is worse than it was three to four years ago. Nearly half of them have been impacted by layoffs. Nearly half of them are struggling financially.

And so, you know, we see that the Republicans and more conservative elected are playing a very shady game. They have for quite some time, not only just in South Carolina, but across the country. But this is what we need, some form of resistance or fighting back from progressive candidates like the congressmen who are willing to hold the line for us.

BLACKWELL: Brooke, the idea of this shutdown going through Christmas, we remember the last1 in 2018, 2019, that there were families in food lines going to food banks, pawning jewelry and electronics to make the ends meet. Do you believe that both Republicans and Democrats will stay on their sides that long?

[08:35:03]

HOWARD: I can't imagine it because I think, at least for me, I would think that people would have to have enough humanity at some point to say, well, these people are being affected so much in this way. But at the same time, at least from the Democrats standpoint, it's all of these government benefits are being cut like the budget is not, like they are not agreeing to what we need.

But in my mind, I just can't imagine TSA workers being forced to go to work, not getting paid, people not being able to get food, not being able to pay for things for their family, people -- even something as simple as our museums being closed.

I just -- it's -- that part of it is so un American to me for that to go on for so long. But then at the same time, we're also juggling these people not being able to take care of their families. I honestly, I really don't know. I hope that there's this fight and more people on the Republican side are like, hey, you know what? Maybe we're being over the top. Maybe this really is. Maybe they have like this Kumbaya moment.

BLACKWELL: And you are hearing that from some Republicans. Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying that she's blaming, in this case, Republican leaders as well. We were talking during the break about the unemployment rate from August. We don't have the numbers from September because BLS is not releasing them during the shutdown.

But as it relates to the unemployment for white women, it's 3.2 percent in August, 6.7 percent for black women. Pair that with the disproportionate number of black women who are in the federal workforce versus their population and the workforce overall. And again, the brunt of the shutdown is impacting black women.

BROWN: You know, we can't continue to be the shock absorbers for a dysfunctional political landscape because that's essentially what's happening. Black women are like the canary in the coal mine that ultimately we are taking. We're taking it first and we're taking it the worst. And so when you look at these shutdowns, not only the way that they're hurt, the shutdown in general is hurting us.

When you're looking at 42 million people are not -- are literally not going to get benefits if this continues until November. That's a lot of folks. We were looking at programs like one out of every three people that get homes, they get federal assistance in homes. The home program has actually been on stall, the USDA Home Assistance Program is on stall.

So what we're looking at is we're looking at the people are being impacted right now because partisanship and really a grab of power really inserted itself in such a way that it says I care more about my power than about people. There are ways that I'm actually proud of the Democratic Party for standing up in this space because ultimately this is an continuous situation. They've been put in this situation that poor people, working class people, black families all across this country are going to be hit hard by this policy in about this bill.

BLACKWELL: LaTosha, Mary-Pat, Brooke, thank you so much for the conversation this morning. All right.

There are stunning images coming in showing the destruction of native villages in Alaska. Families there have been leaving their homes in those flooded villages. An update on what is going on in a part of the country that we don't give enough attention. That's next.

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[08:42:57]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES POST, RESIDENT OF NIGHTMUTE, ALASKA: A lot of mess right here that washed all the way up. We're in the higher portion of this village and then it reached all the way up to that boardwalk line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: I don't know if you've heard, but there is a climate disaster happening in Alaska that needs more attention. We learned overnight that there are remote villages in Alaska so damaged by a recent typhoon that more than 2,000 people have had to leave their homes and they likely won't be able to come back for more than a year. That's according to the governor of Alaska, who is asking the federal government for help.

Officials have been working hard to get people out of the inundated Alaskan native villages. It's now one of the biggest airlifts in Alaska's history. At least one person was killed by the storm that caused this. Two more people are still missing. Dozens had to be rescued as their homes floated away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOILET TOYUKAKA, KIPNUK RESIDENT: It's really confusing right now. I don't know how I'm feeling. I got home about three weeks ago. I was planning to be there for the rest of the month before I go to college in January. Now it's gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now this storm happened just months after the Trump administration eliminated a $20 million EPA grant to one of the impacted villages, Kipnuk. It was supposed to help prevent erosion and protect the infrastructure. EPA Secretary Lee Zeldin claims the grant wasn't necessary. He calls environmental justice in general DEI.

He said this in a post on X, to be brutally candid, due to the proactive cancellation of this grant, 20 million of hardworking U.S. tax dollars are currently sitting in the U.S. treasury instead of swept away into the Kiskokwin River.

One tribal leader from a village near that river, though, has his doubts that Native people who have lived in this area for generations can return because climate change is a reality.

[08:45:07]

He tells the Alaska Beacon, we're not going to be well. Storms are going to get worse and it's not going to be livable. We're past the tipping point. Maybe.

Now November, November is Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month, and I was reminded of that hearing about the sudden, tragic death of one of the most celebrated neo soul artists.

D'Angelo left us this week. His family said he'd had a prolonged and courageous battle with pancreatic cancer. It's so hard to think about because he was 51 years old. This disease that took such a visionary from us does not discriminate in its victims. But it is a disturbing fact that pancreatic cancer does disproportionately kill black people.

And according to the National Cancer Institute, a higher rate of black people get pancreatic cancer compared to other groups. Now why is that? Well, experts blame a vicious cycle. Black people face more barriers to healthy food and quality health care, and so as a result, they're more susceptible to pancreatic cancer risk factors. People with diabetes who are obese or smoke have a higher risk.

You may be aware of these facts because someone you know in your life has fought this form of cancer or maybe is fighting it now. Experts say it's important to keep an eye out for the warning signs. It's a long list, but they include belly pain that spreads to the sides or the back, loss of appetite, weight loss, jaundice, which is a yellowing of the skin and the whites of the eyes.

And I want to be sure to say this too. It's not all doom and gloom. Pancreatic cancer is one of the more brutal cancers. There are treatment options, though. But one thing we all need to do is push for more clinical trials. The National Cancer Institute says black people make up about 14 percent of the population, but only 5 to 7 percent are participants in clinical trials. And trials can help come up with treatments and tests that help not only the black community, but every community. And it's a great way to honor those we've lost, like D'Angelo.

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[08:52:02]

BLACKWELL: Fashion is art and style is forever. And a new exhibit is reminding us of that in honor of one of the most stylish people ever. Andre Leon Talley was a supporter of SCAD's museums in Atlanta and Savannah, Georgia, during his life. And he shared nearly 70 looks from his personal collection, which are now part of a Style is Forever exhibit.

For Art is Life this week, I spoke with someone who knew Talley well and curated the exhibit that just opened to visitors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAFAEL GOMES, CREATIVE DIRECTOR AT SCAD FASH ATLANTA: My name is Rafael Gomez. I'm the creative director at SCAD FASH Atlanta and Lacoste. The title of the exhibition is Andre Leon Talley. It's Dio. It's forever. We have 75 looks. 75 here in Atlanta, 24 in Savannah. And then we have many pieces like hats, bags, scarves, if you include photography, letters. And so we are around almost 300 pieces in the exhibition.

The exhibition came together before COVID. I told Andre, we need to do an exhibition of your looks. And Andre, no one wants to. I was like, everybody wants to see it. You have so many amazing, stunning pieces from all the designers. And he now maybe one day I was like, no, we need to do it the next. And then he was very happy about the idea.

But with COVID we couldn't travel. Everything stopped. And unfortunately, Andre passed. And later on, for our surprised he left in his view so much too SCAD. He was the first man of color that penetrate into this fashion world that was so elitist and it was so difficult for him.

ANDRE LEON TALLEY, AMERICAN FASHION JOURNALIST: There was probably a little bit of a fantasy of me. Maybe I was like a blackamoor, a black page like in the Russian court. But I had something to say and I think the people who mattered realized that.

GOMES: In the time before Google because now we can ask everything to our phone. Before this they needed to ask everything to Andre. Andre's superpower was his knowledge. Andre was so knowledgeable. Andre was armed with fashion. I could hear Andre all the time talking, don't put my hands like that. And Rafael, how can you do this?

[08:55:00]

There are some looks that the tunics, the cuff dance, they are floor lengths or they have a train. You don't see what's underneath. Every single look has trousers underneath, has shoes underneath. I could hear Andre, how dare you put me out there in public without pants and without shoes.

His sense of humor on top of it, it was like such an intelligent humor that was educating, it was entertaining, it was captivating.

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BLACKWELL: "Andre Leon Talley: Style is Forever" is on View until March 2026 and for more information check out scadfash.org.

Now, if you see something or someone that I should see, tell me. I'm on Instagram and TikTok and X and Bluesky and you can listen to our show as a podcast. And remember to tune in tonight for an all new episode of "Have I Got News For You." Journalist Julia Ioffe and comedian Gianmarco Soresi join Roy Wood Jr. Amber Ruff, Michael Ian Black tonight at 9:00 p.m. on CNN.

And thank you for joining me today. I'll see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Smerconish is up after a break.

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