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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Flight Delays, Cancellations Spread Amid Shutdown; Native Tribes Struggle With Access To Food After SNAP Cuts; Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, (D-NY), Is Interviewed About State Of Shutdown Talks; Shaggy Speaks Out On Jamaica Hurricane Relief Effort; Norman Rockwell Family Slams DHS Over Art Use On Social Media. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired November 08, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:18]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, first of all, if you're watching this from the airport or plane, I hope your travel experience is a smooth one. For a lot of people across the country right now, it's certainly is not. Sure, flight delays or cancellations or long lines, they're not fun. But if that is the extent of your travel trouble because of this government shutdown, spare a thought for the federal employees working without pay during this mess. That includes air traffic controllers who keep the planes safely in the sky, but also the TSA workers who help us get safely onto the planes.

According to a 2019 report from ProPublica, the TSA is one of the most diverse agencies in the federal government. Citing data from the Office of Personnel Management, they found that one quarter of screeners are Black. Excuse me, Reuters found that the average pay is up compared to the last shutdown in 2019. It's now more than $61,000 a year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. But the now multiple missed checks during this shutdown, that's hurting.

A shortage of air traffic controllers is what's leading to the FAA to start ordering a reduction in domestic flights. But as those reductions are expected to grow at airports across the country, the impact of long lines and frustrated passengers, that trickles down to them, too. Here in Atlanta, we have the busiest airport in the world.

Aaron Barker works there. He's a TSA employee and a leader of the American Federation of Government Employees Union.

Aaron, thank you for coming in. Your members are about 1500 TSA workers across the airports here in the state of Georgia. How are you now after two full missed paychecks? Are you making ends meet?

AARON BARKER, TSA EMPLOYEE: No, I am not, as most of my members are. They're not making ends meet. They're having to make really tough decisions. I consider this crisis mode. We are now at the point where today would have been a payday for officers. It's the first, the second full missed paycheck. So now I have members who are coming, they're being evicted. Some of them are already evicted. I have one family who I just learned was sleeping in their car with children. I have another one who's expected to be evicted on Monday.

I have another one who has five children. She's facing evictions. So these stories are coming in daily to me. So officers are really feeling this shut down.

BLACKWELL: Do you have people who are not just calling in sick but are leaving the job because they're not being paid?

BARKER: I haven't gotten any reports of anyone leaving the job. And I want to clear something up. Officers are not calling in sick. Officers have not received the paycheck. They don't have the means to come to work.

They're calling in because they can't put gas in their car or they can't afford to pay for daycare. And that brings up a whole another thing. People daycares have wait lists. Those children that are not able to go to daycare right now. Once the government reopens, they then have to be found -- find other places to, you know, for their -- for the care of their children while they report to work.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about this thinning of air traffic. Four percent on Friday. It could go up, the secretary of Transportation says, at some point to 20 percent. That may mean fewer people coming through the lines. Is that help for you if there are fewer flights or fewer people coming through these TSA lines?

BARKER: I mean, we're built for this in Atlanta. We deal with --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BARKER: -- with heavy passenger volume on a daily. So that may be the case for someone, but people are still going to be coming to Atlanta. So it may be a slight decrease in the passenger volume. It would help, but I don't think it will change much for Atlanta because of the way the airport is configured and everything. I think it will still be about the same.

BLACKWELL: Let me play something that you said a month ago. This was near the start of the shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARKER: One of the biggest concerns that I have for our members and what has been expressed to me is, you know, the mental anguish that's coming from, not the uncertainty. The concern that I have is the security risk that presents. The. The more that things are weighing heavily on someone's mind that, you know, just in general, you lose focus of what's, you know, in front of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: Now, every politician that I've heard has said that there's no correlation between the lack of pay and safety and security. You say there that there is a security risk created by this.

BARKER: I think anyone that says that is absolutely insane. With any trauma -- what we're going through as federal workers is traumatic for a lot of people. And we know that traumatic experiences have effects on your mental. So if anyone is saying that, I absolutely don't agree with that. My stance will still be that this is affecting officers mentally.

[08:05:07]

And if this continues to go on there -- I hope that it doesn't happen, but there needs to be some recourse that happens immediately to take care of these officers so they can get the stress of not knowing what's going to happen with their home -- their homes, their children, their families every day.

BLACKWELL: All right, let's expand the conversation now and bring in Darryl Wilson, retired naval aviator and pilot, who is one of the leaders of the Georgia Black Republican Council, and Tharon Johnson, a Democratic strategist.

Darryl, let me start with you. We just heard here from a TSA worker who says that this is a safety risk not paying people. What's your reaction to that?

DARRYL WILSON, STANDING COMMITTEE CHAIR, GEORGIA BLACK REPUBLICAN COUNCIL: Well, that's one of the reasons that the secretary of Transportation has taken the steps to alleviate the congestion and the stress upon the system and reducing the number of flights, as you pointed out, reducing the number of folks that come through the line for security. You have to be able to do something, take some action. And that's the action that's being taken at the time.

BLACKWELL: I don't know that eliminates the safety risk. If he cuts the number of people come to the line to five and the people who are working TSA still aren't being paid, that's the risk, is it not, that they are focused on how to pay the rent, how to pay for food, how to fill the gas tank up instead of what's coming through on that scanner?

WILSON: Oh, no, I agree with you. And Secretary Duffy has also made that case for the air traffic controllers as well. So there is a safety issue. And again, until the Democrats vote for opening the government again, you have to take some action. And action is being taken.

BLACKWELL: Tharon, why did Democrats yesterday vote against a bill to pay federal workers? What justifies that?

THARON JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Because Democrats want this shutdown to end that the president created. You got to remember, Victor, we tried to negotiate with the president months ago. We trusted him in the first able -- we were first able to stop the first shutdown in March because we trusted that he was going to do the right thing. Now we're saying, hey, we can reopen this government because you guys control the White House, you control the House and you control the Senate. Also, President Trump this week said that unless we explored a nuclear option, which he's encouraging Republicans to do, you guys are going to be blamed for the shutdown.

Now, Democrats previously did vote for federal workers like Aaron and the women and men in his union to receive some pay. But going forward, we want this shutdown to end, not just continue to piecemeal it.

BLACKWELL: They can't do both? Aaron's members of his union can't keep their apartments and they can't feed their children and put gas in the car and continue to negotiate?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, I want to thank Aaron and the women and men in his union for continuing to work. Our hearts and prayers are with you guys. And that's why you saw Democrats like Congresswoman Nikema Williams, who was just a couple weeks ago who made sure that they went out to the airport and provided lunches and extended hours. Our mayor also, Victor, this week I went through the airport and I handed out gas cards because like Aaron, I had a supervisor tell me if my folks can't get to work, I can't depend on them there.

But I want to go back to this public safety issue really quick. These people, these women are men on the first line of defense, we forget when you're going and rushing to that flight, they have to really make sure that they use their proper training and their skills. And if they're tired, if they're broke and if they're sick and they got their family members complaining, they may miss something. We confiscate guns at the airport all the time. So these TSA workers and these air traffic controllers need to have their jobs fully funded and they need to be able to get the time pay (ph).

BLACKWELL: That still doesn't answer the question of why the negotiations over the ACA subsidies can continue while the federal employees get paid.

JOHNSON: Yes, absolutely. I think we should do that. Yes.

BLACKWELL: OK.

JOHNSON: But the Republicans will tell you is pass the clean resolution first. It's not an orb, Victor, it's an. And I totally agree with you.

BLACKWELL: Darryl, let me come to you on the White House's fighting all the way down to the Supreme Court paying out full SNAP benefits. I mean, the headline here is that the president is fighting paying for food stamps for 42 million people. Do you support that?

WILSON: I support that we should not have interference between the legislative and branch and the judicial branch trying to be activist judges. And so that's the issue. You know, is this a constitutional problem or where the judicial is overstepping their bounds and so will the president even have the authority to do that? So they agreed with the -- with the -- with the court system and then it was -- it was terminated by the Supreme Court. BLACKWELL: The president has posted on social media five or six times yesterday to end the filibuster, which would allow Republicans to end the shutdown without reaching the 60 vote threshold so they wouldn't need any Democrats. Leaders in the Republican conference are not going to do that. Thune has said it's not going to happen. I want to play the president from a little more than a decade ago about the leadership required to end a government shutdown. Let's play it.

[08:10:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, very simply. You have to get everybody in a room. You have to be a leader. The president has to lead. He's got to get Mr. Boehner and everybody else in a room and they have to make a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Where's that leadership?

WILSON: Well, the leadership is -- it's -- we already know the bills have already passed the House and so that leadership has taken place. And now it's in the Senate where we're looking for Democrats just to say let's keep the government open.

BLACKWELL: I'm talking about the leadership that president, well then private citizen Trump, said is that it is up to the president to lead, to get the people into a room and to negotiate a deal. It is day 39. There are members of Aaron's union who are living in their cars. Where is the president's leadership?

WILSON: Well, the president has already met with both the leaders of the House and the Senate, you know, prior to this debacle already starting. And the Democrats have made it clear that they're not going to open the government until they get what they want.

BLACKWELL: Just holding the president to the standard he set for previous presidents.

Aaron, Darryl and Tharon, thank you all.

All right, ahead, a new proposal from Democrats to end the shutdown shutdown. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries will join us live to talk about what's next.

First, though, we go to one of the communities struggling the most from SNAP benefits being in limbo because of this shutdown. A Native American reservation in South Dakota with just one grocery store to depend on.

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[08:16:17]

BLACKWELL: A quarter million Venezuelans living in the United States could now be at risk of deportation. At midnight, they lost their temporary protected status. The Department of Homeland Security argued that the TPS was helping drive, quote, "irregular migration" and that it is undermining the administration's efforts to secure the southern border. One woman who came here in 2021 says that she came here to go to school and she's been working as a nurse as she gets her second bachelor's degree. And Friday that dream ended.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I already got the notification from human resources that November 7th, it's my last day. It's still not safe to go back.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN DATA ANALYST: Do you feel betrayed by President Trump?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really hope that President Trump would have done something for us.

ENTEN: Do you support President Trump in the road to the general election?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did support many things -- many things that he was going to do for the country. I do feel a little bit betrayed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: DHS is encouraging Venezuelans to self deport and it's offering incentives, a complimentary plane ticket, $1,000 exit bonus, and a, quote, "potential future opportunities for legal immigration."

All right, families that need SNAP aid are already struggling to pay for food and now they're also struggling to figure out what's going on with their November benefits. These headlines came out within hours of each other. Trump administration starts funding full SNAP benefits for November. Well, that's good.

But then wait, we then got this headline, Trump asked Supreme Court to block a lower court ruling that required the administration to fully cover food stamp benefits. So never mind. And then Supreme Court let Trump pause full SNAP benefits for now. Make that make sense. What they get next a few days look like for the millions of families depending on SNAP, that is as clear as mud.

And that's unsettling for the nearly 42 million people who rely on it, especially for those who live in Indian country. In South Dakota, the Pine Ridge Reservation is dealing with some of the harshest economic conditions in the country. Well, before the shutdown, that was the case. It's even worse now. SNAP helps, but these benefits are not welfare for them.

They are the fulfillment of treaties between the Oglala Sioux tribe and the U.S. government. Natalie Hand is with us now. She works with the Conscious Alliance Food Sovereignty center in Gala Sioux -- in Oglala, South Dakota, I should say, as a field director for the Pine Ridge Reservation. Natalie, good morning to you. First, let me get your reaction to the Supreme Court's pause on this lower court's order that the full SNAP benefits have to be fulfilled immediately.

NATALIE HAND, PINE RIDGE RESERVATION FIELD DIRECTOR, CONSIOUS ALLIANCE: Hey, Victor. Good morning. Thank you for having me. You know, just your intro was stressful. It's an emotional roller coaster that families are experiencing.

You know, yesterday afternoon, we had -- we had hope. And then by last night, that hope was dashed. And it's really putting further stress on a place where we all have had food insecurity for, you know, many, many decades.

BLACKWELL: Yes. I mean, resources have been scarce, as I mentioned, even before the shutdown, with now the hold on SNAP benefits. What have you seen? Are there families that are, you know, as I heard from a guest in the last block, at the end of their resources?

[08:20:00]

HAND: Oh, absolutely. This time of the month, I would say the last week of the month, the first week of the month for us here in South Dakota is a critical time for families. They've run out of their SNAP benefit. The SNAP benefit issued at different times of the month in every state. So in South Dakota, due to the small population, it comes out on the 10th of the month.

So everyone was gearing up for that. That's when -- that's when the funds go onto their card. So this is a really critical time, really critical time of the month. People are out of food. We're seeing record numbers at our food pantry.

BLACKWELL: Are you able to accommodate them, to compensate for the loss of SNAP?

HAND: Well, I mean, we accommodate between 50 and 60 families a week. And it's not enough. You know, for every one meal that a food pantry can provide, you know, SNAP covers nine, nine meals, you know? Our food pantry is small. I don't have the capacity to have very many pallets of food at a given time.

So I'm only able to be open one day a week. So it's a lot. It's a great stress on us. And, you know, once again, food is being used as a weapon by the United States government.

BLACKWELL: Yes. So there are some people who receive SNAP benefits, those are on hold. But there's also the food distribution program on Indian reservations, also referred to as the commodity food program that independent of SNAP. Is that frozen as well during this shutdown?

HAND: I can't speak to that. I'm not sure those rations, we call them rations are issued once a month. I believe they gave out commodities at the beginning of this month.

BLACKWELL: Yes. HAND: I think it was more limited inventory. But I can't speak directly to what -- where they're at with their program.

BLACKWELL: You know, you've mentioned several times and as have I, kind of the historical element here. There are tribal leaders there who say that in some communities in Pine Ridge, unemployment and poverty is near 80 percent. There's a lot of multi-generational systemic contributors to that. But it is not lost on, I think anyone watching that Native Americans, the people who taught the first arrivals what to farm and how to farm this land, are dealing with this degree of food insecurity.

HAND: Right. I mean, you know, yes, it goes back to first contact. As I said, food was used as a weapon then to control subjugate people. And, you know, in native population it has a unique situation in this, in that, you know, there is a active treaty with the United States government where they are to provide for treaty tribes. So that makes tribes unique to the rest of the SNAP recipients in the United States.

BLACKWELL: Well, Natalie Hand there from Pine Ridge, I thank you for the conversation this morning.

HAND: Thank you very much. Appreciate your help.

BLACKWELL: So how long will this shutdown go on? How does it finally end? Few people are involved in crafting answer to that. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is one of them, and he joins us live next.

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[08:28:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: This is a reasonable offer that reopens the government, deals with health care affordability and begins a process of negotiating reforms to the ACA tax credits for the future. Now the ball is in the Republicans court. We need Republicans to just say yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: That was Chuck Schumer. Republicans just said no. The proposal was that Democrats would agree to end the shutdown in exchange for a one year extension of Obamacare subsidies. But the leader of the Republicans in the Senate says that is a nonstarter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: So the president is ready, willing and able to be a part of the solution on fixing the problems with Obamacare. But that can't happen until the government opens up. And I think he's made that abundantly clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: All right now to be fair here, Senate Democrats said no to a vote to pay federal workers who are being forced to work without pay during the government shutdown on Friday failed. So if you're trying to keep track at home, the Senate is not looking like they're close to a deal. They'll be back in session this afternoon, though. But once again, the House will not be in session next week. So what happens next?

Joining us now live, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.

Leader Jeffries, thank you for being with me.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Good morning. Great to be with you.

BLACKWELL: So let me start here with the news overnight and I'll get to the machinations there in Congress. But your reaction to this hold on the administration being required to immediately pay out full SNAP benefits?

JEFFRIES: Donald Trump and his administration have made the decision to weaponize hunger, to withhold SNAP benefits from millions of people, notwithstanding the fact that two lower courts, both the district court and the court of appeals, made clear that those SNAP benefits needed to be paid immediately.

[08:30:00]

The administration chose to go begging before the United States Supreme Court to put a halt on that because they want to withhold SNAP benefits from children, from veterans, from seniors, from American families. And it's shameful.

BLACKWELL: Hungry children, Leader Jeffries, don't know if they're not being fed because of a lack of SNAP benefits or a lack of their parents' federal salary. And so, when Democrats voted yesterday to not pay federal workers in. Is that something you would have supported?

JEFFRIES: Well, from the standpoint of the votes in the Senate, I think what's become clear is that as Democrats, we are ready, we're willing, we're able to sit down with our colleagues on the other side of the aisle, find a bipartisan path forward to reopening the government, to enacting a spending agreement that actually meets the needs of the American people, and also at the same time decisively addressed the Republican health care crisis, particularly as it relates to the need to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits, which are going to trigger, in the absence of doing that, dramatically increased premiums, copays and deductibles on working class Americans.

The legislation yesterday, Victor, would have actually given the Trump administration the discretion to do what it wants to do relative to which federal employees it pays, which federal employees it doesn't pay, how to maneuver through the offices that they've been shutting down for months, even prior to the start of the Trump Republican government shutdown. So it wasn't a credible effort by Republicans to try to resolve this challenge. BLACKWELL: All right, let's talk about efforts to resolve this. Do you

fully support the proposal that the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, posed yesterday? A one year extension of the ACA tax credit, the subsidies that expire at the end of the year, and then open the government and discuss everything else after that?

JEFFRIES: I think that the proposal was offered in good faith by Leader Schumer and supported by Senate Democrats. And our view has been that we would consider anything as House Democrats that is arrived at in a bipartisan way that emerges from the Senate, that reopens the government, that provides us with a path toward decisively addressing the Republican health care crisis, beginning with the extension of the Affordable Care act tax credit.

So we haven't had an opportunity as a caucus to sit down and evaluate the specifics of the proposal. We'll do that as House Democrats in short order --

BLACKWELL: But how about the headline? How about the headline?

JEFFRIES: -- with a strong reasonable step in the right direction.

BLACKWELL: So you would -- you call it a reasonable step in the right direction for a one year extension to get the government back open? Let me play for everyone what you said in October, this October 7th about a one year extension when it was proposed then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFRIES: A one year extension of the Affordable Care Act tax credits is not acceptable. It's a nonstarter. It's a nonstarter. Like what world are these MAGA extremists living in right now to think that Democrats are going to go along with a one-year extension from a group of people, meaning the Republicans who just permanently extended massive tax breaks for their billionaire donor?

It's a laughable proposition. It makes no sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Makes no sense. Laughable. Nonstarter then. Now it's reasonable and it's the Democratic starting point. What changed?

JEFFRIES: Well, let me compare the two things. What I was responding to was a proposal by a handful of House Republicans who put forward the notion that they are up to extending the Affordable Care Act tax credits by a year, who have zero credibility on the issue. They hadn't even been able to convince their own House Republican leaders, beginning with Speaker Johnson, to even put the legislation on the floor of the Senate.

And so it was a floor of the House. It wasn't a serious proposal being put forward --

BLACKWELL: The legislation that sponsored by --

JEFFRIES: -- by these random House Republicans.

BLACKWELL: But it's also some House Democrats who support that legislation as well. It's a bipartisan piece of legislation.

JEFFRIES: Yes, well, and it's a bipartisan piece of legislation and those House Democrats are proceeding in good faith. That said, if you look at the Schumer proposal, the Schumer proposal is a one year extension of the tax credits as is and a step toward a multiyear extension because there's a recognition by the Senate Democrats that of course simply taking the step toward a year without any further process moving forward beyond that leaves us back in the same situation.

So the Senate proposal is definitively different than what was being framed floated out there by House Republicans.

[08:35:02]

BLACKWELL: Leader Jeffries, there are some people who don't know what a clean CR is and don't care. They just need to be able to pay their rent and feed their children. I want you to listen to some of the people who are going without now on day 39, and then I want your reaction or response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEE TARR, SNAP RECIPIENT: I was born with a mild form of cerebral palsy, so I've been disabled since birth. So I rely on food stamps and Social Security to survive. I've been struggling. It's been really hard. I've literally been eating spaghetti for four days because it's all I have in my apartment.

ONITA MORRIS, SNAP RECIPIENT: Rather than myself having like a full plate of food along with my kids, I'm making sure that they have a full plate of food and their bellies are full. And I may have either less or I may not eat what they are eating just for the sake that they are getting enough.

I just don't understand how we've come to a point where we're using food in politics and being essentially political pawns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: What do you say to the people and maybe listen, some of them might even support your end goal, but they have to feed their children this morning and tomorrow morning and the morning after that. What do you tell them?

JEFFRIES: That the administration has the funds to pay every single SNAP beneficiary right now and that the administration's decision, a decision made by Donald Trump, supported by his so called attorney general and House and Senate Republicans, is to weaponize hunger.

And the refusal to pay SNAP benefits has nothing to do with the fact that Republicans also shut the government down. Keep in mind, Victor, that in July, in connection with their one big ugly bill, Republicans, in addition to the largest cut to Medicaid in American history, cut $186 billion out of SNAP. They literally ripped food out of the mouths of hungry children, seniors and veterans. And they did it so they could reward their billionaire donors with massive tax breaks that they then made permanent.

And now, as we are in the midst of this ongoing Republican Trump shutdown, they are intentionally withholding SNAP benefits from people all across the country. 42 million Americans, 16 million children, 8 million older Americans and over a million veterans. It's outrageous. There's no justification for it. And those SNAP benefits, as ordered by two different federal courts, should be paid immediately.

BLACKWELL: I'll point out that there are people in the same food line for help that are not getting their SNAP benefits or federal workers as well who are not getting their salaries. And we talked about the vote yesterday in the Senate against paying those employees.

Leader Hakeem Jeffries, thank you so much for your time.

Jamaica needs a lot of help and one of the island nation's most famous sons is doing its part after the devastating hurricane. Shaggy is here live to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:46]

BLACKWELL: The cleanup from one of the strongest hurricanes ever recorded in the Atlantic will take months. Hurricane Melissa hit the Caribbean last month as a Category 5. Killed dozens of people. The damage, and we're showing some of it, is astronomical. But they're getting help from a native son.

Shaggy just got back to the U.S. and he is with us now. Thank you for your time this morning. This is home for you. So it hits different. You were in Miami when the storm hit. Talk to me about how you were able to stand up this relief operation and what you're doing.

SHAGGY, GRAMMY AWARD-WINNING MUSICIAN: Well, I tell you what, I've sat through and written out a lot of hurricanes, being an island boy. So when I heard that and I went through Gilbert, which was a Category 3 and that was just massive. And when I hear a Category five and then it's like, oh, it's never been recorded before. And I'm like, whoa, this is going to be catastrophic.

So we just got ready and I mean, I went and went on ChatGPT because I don't know anything about relief, disaster relief. And we just bought up a bunch of stuff, whatever it was needed based on what ChatGPT gave us. And we sat and waited until the airport opened. And once the airport was open on Thursday morning, we just made a flight plan and went in.

BLACKWELL: Are, you know, Wi-Fi and power and some of that I put in one category. But the basic necessities of food and water. Are there still people who are struggling getting those basic necessities now a week and a half on? SHAGGY: Yes, sir. Because, you know, some of these areas, it really

hit the western part of the island. So, you know, a lot of those are rural areas and to get into those with, you know, get through the paths and all of that is hard because the roads are the problem.

You know, one of the things that were lucky to do is that once we got in, we put them in smaller vehicles so, you know, we had to chop our way up. It took us about six and a half hours to get to Black River, which was probably around normally a two, two and a half hour drive. So it was really, really hard to get through. So they're still having problem getting through some of the rural areas. Some of the roads are clear now. They're doing a wonderful job.

[08:45:02]

A lot of aid coming in, of course, but, you know, we still need more. People are -- it's still devastated. People are, you know, 70 percent of the islands without electricity or water or Internet, you know.

BLACKWELL: Wow. You say more aid is coming in. The Trump administration announced this week it's sending 12 million to Jamaica and then splitting 12 million between Haiti, Cuba and the Bahamas is not the US's sole role for recovery from this hurricane for Jamaica. But how does that stack up to what will be needed to recover?

SHAGGY: I think that's a drop in the bucket, to be honest with you. But that is why, you know, and thank you for sharing your platform. I mean, we have to keep it in the press because another headline comes along and then the aid stop, you know, I mean, we have to keep it in the press. We have to keep asking anybody if they, you know, they can't help.

One way to help is to keep it on your timeline and keep it going because we need help. We have to basically help each other. And there's a lot of camaraderie and community help amongst each other. The great part is that Kingston was not badly affected. So you could still use Kingston as a hub to actually facilitate aid going to the western part of the island.

BLACKWELL: I was in the Bahamas a couple of years ago covering the aftermath of Hurricane Dorian, and most of the people I spoke with there said that, you know, the Bahamas will be back, we will come back stronger. I read that you said that this storm is going to change Jamaica forever. Explain that.

SHAGGY: Well, it's a Category 5. I mean, I just went down in Black River. Things that places were -- that were landmarks for us, totally gone. You know, you're looking at as far as Black River from where I saw, you know, it's total rebuild. I just don't see how, you know, you can actually repair what is there. You know, you're talking about a lot of tear down. Because I've seen, you know, concrete walls that are knocked down, man. I mean, this is severe.

So I think it is going to change us. I mean, I look at a little girl and just mentally, because I still remember Gilbert with myself and, you know, I see this little girl, you know, and in a couple days before that she was playing. Now she's in a -- a queue trying to figure to get something for her tummy. You know, psychologically that's going to have an effect on you know, and I don't -- it doesn't matter what you look. Yes.

BLACKWELL: I understand that you have announcement this morning of something coming to help.

SHAGGY: Well, yes, you know, we're also -- we're doing a concert that we're putting on Jamaica Strong Concert on Friday, December 12th in 2025, at the UBS Arena. And you know, this will feature Jamaican artists, career, local Caribbean artists, also international artists. And we're going to raise fund for the efforts, the aid efforts, you know, and I'm telling everybody if they want to get involved and you know, make sure you buy a ticket and come out.

There'll also be different drives there that you can get involved. And if you want to donate and you go to Global Empowerment Mission, Food for the Poor is also one. Of course the government set up support jamaica.gov.jm and of course we have our own Shaggy Maker Difference Foundation co of Global Empowerment Mission.

You know that you can get in and just like the big up at 25 United Disaster Relief number (INAUDIBLE) they did a lot of, you know, bringing down some of our cups, some of the cargoes for us. And it's been doing a wonderful job.

Over 280 children have been directly affected by this hurricane. And we need medical supplies. Some of these hospitals are totally, you know, gone. Everything flooding out. Imagine every equipment that they would use, medical equipment that is used is also flooded out. So we do need a lot of help and we need people to please keep it on your socials.

BLACKWELL: Shaggy, I thank you for your time this morning and thank you for the work you're doing.

SHAGGY: Thank you very much, man. I appreciate it, man.

BLACKWELL: All right, we'll be right back.

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[08:53:10]

BLACKWELL: The family of Norman Rockwell. They're not fans of the Department of Homeland Security. Right now, the agency is using the acclaimed artist work and his quotes to promote their immigration agenda. And the family writes, if Norman Rockwell were alive today, he would be devastated to see that his own work has been marshaled for the cause of persecution toward immigrant communities and people of color.

So how did Norman Rockwell really feel? I asked his granddaughter, Daisy Rockwell, for this week's edition of Art is Life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAISY ROCKWELL, NORMAN ROCKWELL'S GRANDDAUGHTER: My name is Daisy Rockwell. I live in Vermont, and I am Norman Rockwell's granddaughter. There's nobody, literally nobody in our family that thinks it's a good idea to have his paintings associated with the Department of Homeland Security. Just the idea of associating his work with an undertaking that's so antithetical to what he believed in was horrible.

There's the one with the people saluting the flag and so they're all white people, right? In the painting. The idea was that this is what we want to go back to is being, you know, an all-white in poets, because it was never all white, but I -- a white society that believes in, you know, patriotism and so on like that. And it's just, you know, really a twisting of what he intended.

During the civil rights movement, he became really troubled by what he was seeing about the violence and racism, and he decided he needed to do something.

[08:55:00]

In 1964 he published in look magazine his very famous painting "The Problem We All Live With," which is about based on the story of the desegregation of the New Orleans schools. He also was very moved and upset by the slaying of three civil rights workers in Mississippi. And he painted one of his most raw, I think paintings was called "Murder in Mississippi."

My father, incidentally, Jarvis Rockwell, who also signed our letter, he's 94. He was the model for the white civil rights worker and he is really just appalled by what the DHS is doing and about the kind of demonization of immigrants. He's personally very opposed to it and of course he feels that his father obviously as well.

What's more important to us is to let the world know and younger people know what he stood for and the kind of work that he did and how he would have not have signed on to any of what's going on right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And Daisy told me it was the third generation Rockwells, the great grandchildren, who were especially energetic about releasing a statement. Thanks for joining me today. Smerconish is up next.

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