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First of All with Victor Blackwell

"The More Force We Use, The Less Trust We Have"; Madison Police Reviewing Shooting, Will Release Officer's Name; Madison's Council Member: Why Wasn't Officer Walking Away In Cuffs? Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 25, 2026 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:22]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: First of all, there is a deficit of trust in Madison, Wisconsin, this morning, and city leaders acknowledge it. Protesters are pressing police and elected officials for more answers, better answers after another fatal police involved shooting in a city with a history of them.

Officers in Madison, Wisconsin, do not wear body cameras. So for now, we only have video from witnesses shot showing this week's deadly shooting of a man named Corey Ruiz. A warning. We're about to show some of that video, and it is graphic, but we're showing it so viewers can make sense of what happens in the moments after the shooting.

In the beginning of this video, you can see Ruiz struggling with four officers. He starts to get up as one of the officer's yells, "Taser, Taser. Taser." And then deploys it.

Ruiz is still up, but then seconds later, Ruiz falls, and three gunshots. Officers kneel beside him. One put Ruiz's arm behind his back. The other takes what appears to be a knife from the front of Ruiz and places him on the street. A minute later, another officer, not the one who shot Ruiz, is seen explaining what happened to another officer on scene.

Now, police said Ruiz injured one of the officers with that knife. Police Chief promises that they will take a close look at this shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JOHN PATTERSON, MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT: They thoroughly document the scene. They analyze video that they can find canvas for video. They interview witnesses. They create their own documents.

DCI will also release the name of the officer who fired his firearm at some point in their investigation, and I sincerely hope that is soon. The more force we use, the less trust we have. That is the tension that we are living through right now in this city. And I can physically feel it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The Madison City Council president, Sabrina Madison, is with me now. Thank you so much, Madam President, for being with me. I want to start by playing something that you said at a news conference this week about this shooting and get some clarity about what you meant here.

Here's what you said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SABRINA MADISON, MADISON, WISCONSIN COMMON COUNCIL PRESIDENT: My first thought is, when the officer is walking away, why isn't he walking away in cuffs? That's my first thought.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So when you say you wonder why he wasn't walking away in cuffs, do you believe the officer who shot and killed Corey Ruiz should be arrested?

MADISON: What my immediate thought is, why is three gunshots to the head the standard or not the standard, but is this the appropriate use of force for someone who appeared to be down, where you have an officer on one part of his body holding it down, a leg coming in to hold another part of his body down. And the reaction to taser or knife is to shoot him three times in the head. I think the average citizen, if this was an average citizen on an average citizen, that citizen who shot someone in the head three times likely would have walked away in handcuffs.

So my immediate gut reaction was this just does not seem the appropriate option to take when this gentleman was already down.

BLACKWELL: Same question, though. Do you think this officer should be arrested?

MADISON: I do think he should be arrested. I just don't think that this -- I don't think that the use of three gunshot wounds for Mr. Ruiz, who, as I looked at the video, you know, the video slowed down, where you have an officer who appears to be maybe on his backside and arm, another officer comes in with his foot or, you know, foot or whatever to hold another part of him down, and he is down.

Now, I can't tell, of course, you know, where the knife was and how it moved or how he got injured. But even so, why is the option to shoot him three times in the head? Why is that the appropriate action to take?

BLACKWELL: Let me take it a step further. The family has now retained civil rights attorney Ben Crump, who called this an execution. Do you agree with that characterization?

MADISON: An execution is that -- that it's an execution. It is whether that is the appropriate word, and folks disagree with it, that is what an execution is defined as: someone is shot three times in the head. Whether the Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigations find that to be justified or not, it is still an execution.

[08:05:11]

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you also about the absence of body-worn camera video. We'll talk about that in a moment. But do you know of, is there any other squad car video or anything that's not public as part of this investigation that you know of?

I know you're the city council and not in the police department, but are you aware of any additional video that might be part of this that we have not seen?

MADISON: I don't know. I wouldn't be able to know that. But what I do know is that some of our squad cars do have dashcams. I can't say whether or not the squad cars that pulled up or were there when it was happening would have those cameras.

BLACKWELL: What's your degree of confidence in Chief Patterson and the training of Madison Police?

MADISON: Yes, thus far we've had a really, you know, great professional working relationship. And I just -- I guess I don't -- I more so see it as, is this a failure of the training that he's offered?

I know this officer. I can't remember how long he's been on the force, but I keep hearing that he's a veteran. So has the training that this officer received adequate enough to take away the option of shooting someone three times in the head?

Like, what kind of training got him to the point where that was the appropriate action to take.

BLACKWELL: There was one thing that attorney Crump said in the news conference that happened yesterday afternoon that stood out to me. The police chief suggests that there was an injury to the officer. Ben Crump said that he didn't see any injury. The person didn't act like the officer didn't act like he was injured. There was no blood on the knife.

Do you believe, as the chief says, that there was an injury, that this officer was injured by this knife that Ruiz had?

MADISON: I don't know if I believe or not believe because again, I can't see all of that. I guess what I'm saying is whether or not there was an injury to the officer, as he is getting back up, he is -- it looks to be where he has his hand on his gun. And I am just left with, is that the appropriate action to take for what was happening? Seeing there were three other officers on either side of Mr. Ruiz including him.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about the body camera. The body camera, body-worn cameras Madison has been studying and considering and planning for, and Horizon listing body-worn cameras for years. I went back and read the 52-page feasibility report from a few years ago. Now that Ruiz is dead, the mayor says they'll be part of the next budget.

What do you say to the people who say that it shouldn't have to take this to get those cameras onto those officers and implemented in this era? I mean, Madison is the biggest city in Wisconsin without these cameras.

MADISON: Yes. So first, I guess I want to start with back in 2020 or so, this community, before I was on the Madison Common Council, advocated for not implementing body-worn cameras. There was very much conversations about investment in community and community control over the police. So, at the time that council went in the direction of the community who do not support body-worn cameras.

Last November, in 2025, of course we are still talking about body-worn cameras. We decided not to defund the office of the Independent Monitor. There was a last-minute resolution from three auditors that would have defunded that office to give MPD about $400,000 or so, to maybe towards the operating cost of those cameras.

But back in November 2025, the chief had not developed a budget. He did not ask for that resolution from those auditors.

However, in our budget negotiation conversations last year, we came to the conclusion that the chief would be submitting both his cap and operating budget this year for implementation in 2027. So we are -- we were on track, starting from last fall to get to the implementation going into next year.

BLACKWELL: The (inaudible) there Of the Madison City Council. Thank you so much for joining us.

We've been following the investigation into the death of Nolan Wells off the coast of Mississippi. Two weeks ago, I spoke with Nolan's parents. Investigators believe his death was an accidental drowning. Nolan's parents want a transparent investigation firm answers on what happened.

This week, District attorney Angel Myers McIlrath made her first public comments on the case and she's asking people to be patient with the investigation and she explained why we have not heard from her up to this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGEL MYERS MCILRATH, DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR THE 19TH CIRCUIT DISTRICT: I understand the public's urgency to know what happened to Nolan, but we are not taking time for time's sake. We are taking the time required to complete the work this investigation demands.

[08:10:01]

Since Nolan was reported missing, local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies have worked around the clock investigating what happened to him. Every piece of evidence must be examined. Every credible lead must be followed to its conclusion. Every witness interview must be analyzed in context of all other evidence. The pressure for answers does not change when what the work requires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The independent autopsy of Nolan's body revealed no cause or manner of death, but both were undetermined pending further investigation. The state autopsy is not yet complete, nor is the toxicology report. Nolan's family says that right now they just want communication with investigators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE WONSLEY, MOTHER OF NOLAN WELLS: It is our hope that our local authorities will do what they need to do because us having the preliminary autopsy results and hearing nothing from them, it's heartbreaking, and it's concerning, which again is why we are here, why we have asked for this help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: We, of course, will continue to follow that story.

Coming up, the federal government is really worried about white men and white men specifically facing discrimination at work. And yet a key agency wants to undo a tool meant to help track employment discrimination impacting everyone.

Plus, protests on a Native American reservation in Wyoming after a church leader criticizes how some indigenous people pray.

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[08:16:20]

BLACKWELL: If you're a white man watching, the EEOC has a message just for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREA LUCAS, UNITED STATES EEOC CHAIR: Are you a white male who's experienced discrimination at work based on your race or sex? You may have a claim to recover money under federal civil rights laws. Contact the EEOC as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yes, that is real. A recent PSA from Andrea Lucas. She leads the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The federal agency is supposed to enforce anti-discrimination law.

A proposal to undo a critical tool to help with that work is near final approval. So, keep that clip we just played in your mind as you hear this.

This week the EEOC's Republican majority voted 2 to 1 to rescind a requirement that private sector employers submit reports on the demographics of their workforce. Employment discrimination based on race, color, sex, national origin, and religion has been against the law since the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

The law also established the EEOC, and thanks to EEOC data, we know there is one group overrepresented in executive and senior management roles at private companies: white Men. Which makes those comments I played from Lucas and this move to end 60 years of actual data collection. Notable.

So now what? One out of three EEOC commissioners voted against the rule change. She is also the only Democratic Commissioner. Kalpana Kotagal is with us now.

Commissioner, thank you for being with me. The central question here.

KALPANA KOTAGAL, COMMISSIONER, U.S. EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION: Good morning.

BLACKWELL: Good morning. The central question here is if this rule change happens, how can the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission effectively determine whether everyone has an equal opportunity for employment?

KOTAGAL: Yes, this is a great question, and it's the thing that I'm singularly concerned about with the rescission of this long-time data collection. As you noted, large employers have had to collect and produce this data to the agency since 1966, just a year after the Commission opened its doors. And we use this data, our staff use this data to dig more deeply into the complaints that we receive to see whether there are larger problems that might be at work that lead to an expansion of the investigation or litigation.

And so, I think you're exactly right. The question is why, at a time when the agency is so short staffed, are we getting rid of one of our most important tools?

BLACKWELL: Yes. And so let me pull that thread and also say in context, the ending of this EEO1 collection of data is prescribed in the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025. Why do you believe that this is happening now?

KOTAGAL: Well, I think it's quite clear. As you note, this data collection is in Project 2020. And so, I think we have to ask the question, as you did, why the administration would want to rescind the use of this tool.

You know, I think it's quite clear that this is going to make it harder to enforce the civil rights laws on behalf of women and people of color, that the loss of this data will lead to -- lead to it making it harder, quite frankly, to enforce the civil rights laws. And I think that may be the point.

BLACKWELL: So the EEOC chair, Andrea Lucas, collecting such data about employees, race and sex, absent any specific allegation of discrimination not only risks hindering effective enforcement of equal employment laws, but also raises constitutional concerns. In the announcement of this proposed rule change, several times they referenced absent allegations, absent any accusations. How much of the work that you do is based on the data you collect independent of a specific claim or allegation?

[08:20:33]

KOTAGAL: Yes, I think it's really important to note that we use this data for a lot of purposes. Right. The first, as you just noted, is the way in which we might use it to inform particular investigations. But this data also helps us to spot where there are particular industries or employers who may have a significant problem. We also use this data to prepare reports and analyses of the workforce.

Our prior chair, Charlotte Burrows, released a report just a couple years ago about discrimination in the tech industry, right? And it was based on this EEO1 data.

And it showed, right, that despite changes in the demographics of this country, increasing numbers of women, black and Hispanic workers in STEM, they were still not making progress in the STEM industry in hiring and promotion. So we use this data in a lot of different ways to understand where discrimination might be arising. And there are lots of examples of us using this data in the context of particular cases. I'll just give you one quick example.

Just a couple months ago, the EEOC settled a case for five and a half million dollars with a big trucking company. We alleged in that case that the company had passed over more experienced women truck drivers in favor of less experienced male applicants.

And if you look at the complaint in that case, it makes clear that EEO1 data was a critical part of the investigation that led to the filing of the complaint. So, we use this data all the time. Right?

And I think the thing about the loss of data is that when you lose data, it's not that the discrimination goes away; it's that our ability to see it goes away. And that's a huge problem. It leaves workers behind.

BLACKWELL: That's important. For 60 years, that data has been crucial in. In trying to make opportunity more fair in this country. EEOC Commissioner Kalpana Kotagal, thank you so much for joining the show this morning.

A Christian church is defending their presence on a Native American reservation after a recent sermon that called out, quote, "idol worship." A leader of the tribe that now wants the church to leave is with us next.

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[08:27:12]

BLACKWELL: When does practicing one religion cross into disrespecting another? A Native American tribe in Wyoming says a Christian church on their reservation went too far and should leave. Members of the Northern Arapaho tribe are outraged by a sermon delivered by Sarah Lucas with Foundations for Nations.

The church took down a video of their service from YouTube after backlash erupted. But someone who recorded the live stream shared it with us. Here's the bit that's drawing the outrage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH LUCAS, FOUNDATIONS FOR NATIONS MINISTRY: This nation gathered this week, and they prayed, and they prayed to pipes and prayed to their ancestors, believing that this is the way for their freedom to get free from addiction, for people to be healed from their sickness. This is what this culture did this week, and we went on as church, as normal. But here's the thing.

I feel like we're to pray this morning before moving on. I feel like we're to pray for our nation this morning, and we're going to pray for our indigenous nation, our tribe this week as they're coming out of this because we know that Jesus is enough. I'm going to ask my Crow brother to come up because he's walked away from this as well to say Jesus is enough.

And they understand that the price that they're saying when they say that publicly, the persecution that can come with them publicly, but they know that this is it. Jesus is the chain breaker. He is the only God that we should be praying to.

A pipe cannot hear your prayers. It's just a piece of material, right? And they're -- this is a cycle that they're caught up, and this is all they ever known. And the Lord is saying, tear down the idols. Tear down the altars, the idol worship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: What followed on the Wind River Reservation were protests like this.

These are images shared with us from local journalist Vince Tropea with County 10 News. Among the protest signs, you can see some say, respect our ancestors, respect our ways. People also held up Bible verses like love thy neighbor as thyself.

This week, the Northern Arapaho Business Council announced a policy now requiring what they call outside organizations to consult with the tribe before conducting organized activities, including recurring ministries on the reservation.

In a statement, they write, "The business council further recognized the historical relationship between many Christian institutions and Native nations, including the devastating legacy of forced assimilation, boarding schools, and efforts to suppress indigenous languages, cultures, and spiritual traditions. These historical experiences make it especially important that any outside organization engaging with the Northern Arapaho people do so through respectful government-to-government consultation and with a full understanding of Tribal history, culture, and sovereignty."

[08:30:12]

We reached out to Pastor Sarah Lucas. In an emailed statement to CNN, she replied Foundations for Nations has served the community for nearly 10 years. She says that includes their food bank, school supplies, giveaways, hosting powwows at the church and more.

She also tells CNN we do not attack any people or ethnicity. We love all people. We are about pointing people to Jesus.

Here to respond and explain what's next. Keenan Groesbeck, the chairman of the Northern Arapaho Tribe and Business Council.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for being with me. Can we just set the stakes here? Talk to me about the severity of that statement and the offense you found in it first so we understand just how important this is to you and to the tribe.

KEENAN GROESBECK, CHAIRMAN, NORTHERN ARAPAHO TRIBE AND BUSINESS COUNCIL: OK. Good morning. Yes. The severity of her words and her actions was comes from within getting out of our most highest ceremony, our Sun Dance ceremony and we got out and our Sun Dance ceremony is a time of celebration. It's the offering lodge. And when we got out to see that video of her gospel and her sermon that morning was quite offensive. And that's where we got to draw the line.

BLACKWELL: So you posted on social media. I don't post too much on Facebook. Just so everyone knows, we told Foundations for Nations and Sarah Lucas they got to go. We ain't putting up with their bullshit. So that's your focus here.

Do you believe that you have the authority to tell a church that they can't, I mean, listen, I'm no theologian, but essentially the first commandment is the Lord our God is one Lord, no other gods. Depending upon the version of the Bible that you can tell the church they can't practice or preach that on your sovereign land.

GROESBECK: Yes. And it's been taken to the Supreme Court through the Montana versus the United States.

BLACKWELL: And so let me read here from the Indian Civil Rights Act of 1968, which affirms that no Indian tribe in exercising powers of self- government shall make or enforce any law prohibiting the free exercise of religion or bridging the freedom of speech.

You write in this press release that the Northern Arapaho Business Council adopted a new tribal policy reaffirming the authority to require governmental authorization for reoccurring ministries.

And so do you believe that you will have to pre approve sermons of this church if they stay?

GROESBECK: Yes. We're going to set up a meeting with them. They need to come before our on business council and asked for that, for them to operate out here.

BLACKWELL: Yes. GROESBECK: Because they're --

BLACKWELL: Continue.

GROESBECK: They're preaching against -- they're preaching against our native ways and that's the health and welfare of our people.

BLACKWELL: You also in this statement say that you respect everyone's constitutional rights and freedom of religion. Do you not see any conflict between telling them they have to go for what they said and a constitutional right?

GROESBECK: Yes, there has to be a barrier there for Northern Arapaho. We don't sit there and discriminate and preach against the Christian church. We let them operate out here in good faith.

BLACKWELL: The church said that, quote, the building sits on private property through a fee, simple deed. The church continues to operate. We will continue to serve the community. It sounds as if in their statement to CNN that they are not leaving.

Although you say that they have to go. You set a 10-day deadline for meeting that ends today. Have you heard from them? Has that meeting happened?

GROESBECK: Oh, we're in talks about the meeting happening. We're just trying to find the place where it's going to -- going to happen at. They want to find some neutral ground.

BLACKWELL: The FBI says they are aware of this situation. What are you planning next? If a lawsuit is necessary, will you file suit?

GROESBECK: We will.

BLACKWELL: All right. Chairman Kennan Groesbeck of the Northern Arapaho Business Council. I thank you so much for having the conversation with me.

[08:35:06]

So here's a question. When is a picture more than just a picture? Coming up, what I saw on my social media algorithm this week about a black owned brunch spot getting boycott threats after its owner was photographed with a Republican politician.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Have you heard about this controversy related to the Georgia governor's race?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has been brought to my very black attention that Atlanta and its surrounding metro areas an uproar.

[08:40:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Photo of Tamara Young, one of the owners of Toast on Lenox, meeting with Republican gubernatorial candidate Rick Jackson gone viral and some people are calling for the restaurant to be boycotted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have gone to Toast on Lenox. You should stop going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not for the cancel culture, but y'all really messed up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is consequences for the actions and the decisions that you make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's a responsible consumer. Well, I choose to not spend my money at places that are going to platform people like Rick Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy that says he wants to be Trump 2.0, the guy that said he wants to be Trump's favorite governor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A photograph is borrowed credibility. And once a politician borrows your credibility, they get to spend it however they want. That's why they visit black churches, black barbershops, black organizations, black owned restaurants. Not because they need your chicken and waffles, but because they need your reputation.

BLACKWELL: The Jackson campaign ultimately took the photos down instead posted this from Atlanta area conservative radio show host Shelley Winter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They called a restaurant owner. Mr. Jackson's going to come. The owner, she says, oh, wow, he's running for governor. I'd like to meet him. That's all she said. She talked to the man. She asked him questions. It was just a conversation. She didn't endorse him. She didn't say, I'm going to vote for you. She didn't hang a sign outside. She didn't do anything.

She just had a conversation with one of two people running for governor as a business owner. Those who are Keisha Lance Bottoms for governor are going after this woman and calling for people not to support her business anymore. This is the stupidest, craziest, most childish thing I've ever seen in my life.

BLACKWELL: The restaurant's owners responded online by saying that Toast on Lenox does not endorse Rick Jackson. Now, the owner said that they understand why some people were concerned after seeing the posts, but also that Toast on Lenox has always been a place where all people are welcome with the same hospitality and respect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For you to welcome him in the theme of we extend everybody, hospitality is a slap in the face to those who support you on a consistent basis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can anyone fault a business owner for having a conversation with the person, with a person who could potentially pass policies that affect their business for the next four to eight years?

BLACKWELL: The Democratic nominee for governor, Keisha Lance Bottoms, also responded to the controversy on social media.

KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR GOVERNOR: I'm assuming anybody who opens their doors to Rick Jackson has made a calculated decision based on the benefits and the risk of doing that. But don't allow people to piss on us and then tell us that it's raining.

BLACKWELL: So is the photograph just a photograph? What do you think?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[08:46:50]

BLACKWELL: Your time in the U.S. may be up after July 10th. July 24th. Actually July 27th. This is what the Haitian recipients of temporary protection from deportation, TPS have been hearing. The deadline for TPS to end and for work permits to expire keeps sliding. Since the Supreme Court sided with the Trump administration and their ability to end the program. The extension now lasts through Monday because of a decision by a federal appeals court. It's a reprieve to have the program extended.

Sure, but how does this allow someone to plan for their present, not to mention their future? Haitian TPS recipients and their advocates say they can't and they're pushing for longer term protection. There's a bill in the Senate that would provide a three-year extension.

Meantime, the Department of Homeland Security says in a statement to CNN, conditions in Haiti have improved sufficiently to support the return of Haitian nationals and DHS encourages eligible individuals to utilize available resources, including the CBP Home program, to facilitate a safe and orderly departure.

Well, my next guest is a TPS recipient from Haiti. During her time in the U.S., she has become a business owner, a community organizer as well. In South Florida, Farah Larrieux joins us now. Farah, good morning to you.

A day here, a week there. Give me just the practical reality of living with a deadline that's only extended 48 hours, 72 hours at a time?

FARAH LARRIEUX, TPS RECIPIENT FROM HAITI: Continuous nightmare, anxiety, stress, knowing what tomorrow will reserve for us and for me particularly. And it also affect my health, my capacity to work, to take care of my business. Every day something going on. And every day even I plan my day. I want to -- I have big dreams, Victor. I want to be a successful woman. I want my business to get to the stock market one day.

And this administration just telling me that my dreams, my life don't matter, have no value. And that's cool -- that's cool. No one should leave like that. BLACKWELL: And so it's been extended to Monday. What is your plan for Tuesday? If there is no extension, what do you do? Because the work authorization ends. I don't even know if your driver's license is still valid. Then what happens the morning after?

LARRIEUX: I don't know yet. It's hard to think that I will put 21 years of my life, literally my adult life, my adulthood, life in the United States, in few boxes and go back to Haiti where I can be targeted for kidnapping, rape. I can be killed, too. And it's difficult to think about it.

[08:50:07]

BLACKWELL: What do you think of that characterization from the administration is that conditions have improved in Haiti when there's still a level four warning of do not travel from the State Department.

LARRIEUX: You say it is just a joke. It's just inconsistency. This is not policy. This is purely ethnic cleansing. It's purely discrimination. It's purely creating a system where they said some people they can they are allowed to live in the United States and some others regardless what's going to happen to them.

What the administration say is the life of American have more value than the life of Haitians. And we know it's just lies and applies they're taking people like -- they think that we are stupid enough and I think it's -- it is outrage because no one, no one should tell me how I should live my life because actually when you know you're sending me somewhere a place that even some people I see that some media social influencers or some people promoting that oh yes, this is a Haiti that they don't show you but let's think about it.

For some TPS recipient like myself who've been living in the United States for so many years the option to go back to Haiti is doesn't exist. There's no option to go back to Haiti. They have no place to live. They have no family there and they have in -- the situation how they can accommodate themselves the school home in Haiti many kids don't go to school. Hospitals fill out.

So basically it's not a life for any -- we can -- you can -- we can give to any human being just because some places in Haiti, some countrysides are OK have no country not controlled by the gang but how we can function it if I'm get -- if I get sick which hospital I'm going to go and then if I want to operate and then a functioning one a business what type of business I can run.

When a country there's no infrastructure, no light electricity, internet is cost a lot of money.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

LARRIEUX: If there's so much problem and the -- and the state the government, public government is centralized in port points when the -- where the terrorists have control this not something to promote for someone. BLACKWELL: You make a lot of good points questions that we've put to the administration and you've heard how they characterize the future. The deadline is Monday. We all will be watching as the hundreds of thousands of TPS recipients across the country will be faced with what's next. Farah Larrieux, thank you so much for your story. We'll take a break. And we'll be back.

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[08:57:15]

BLACKWELL: Today, for Art is Life, honoring a life cut short but a legacy that lives on. Emmett Till should be turning 85 years old today. 85. He was lynched at age 14, beaten and then shot in the head in Mississippi in 1955.

In Chicago today, there will be a celebratory end to an exhibition that uses art of all kinds to show how relevant his story still is today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAYMOND A. THOMAS, CREATIVE DIRECTOR, EMMETT TILL AND MAMIE TILL- MOBLEY INSTITUTE: Greetings. I am Raymond A. Thomas. I am in Chicago, Illinois, and I am also the creative director of the Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley Institute and curator for and participating artists for the From Memory to Movement Emmett at 85 Art Exhibition. The 25th would have been Emmett Till's 85th birthday.

We see continuous harm being caused to young black bodies, and it kind of mirrors from 1955 to now. It becomes more relevant daily.

I wanted to utilize that conversation in these times with these particular artists that we chose. These artists are Chicago bred artists and they all use different media. They use photography, they use sculpture, they use poems and mixed media artworks to tell this legacy in multi layered conversations.

We hope the work could tell this story to this new generation in a way that it hasn't been told before. Beyond the memorialization, if you look at the images and the artwork, you see artwork of young men or young boys having a joyous time in the summertime. Because it was summertime when they took him away from us then.

One of the pieces that I submitted was called "We Love You Paw Paw." It actually shows Emmett at 85. I imagine Emmett not going to Mississippi in 1955. I imagine Emmett maybe marrying his high school sweetheart, maybe his youngest daughter who they thought couldn't have kids, had two younger children.

And you'll see those two younger children depicted in the work. You'll see outside the window there is a white only parking sign which shows that if he had not died, we may have. And particularly if we see what's going on now. We may still be in a segregated America.

But even within that segregated America, the image is very joyous and the grandson has a resist button on it. You see that even in that space, we yet fight.

[09:00:05]

We wanted people to look at these works and understand that --