Return to Transcripts main page
Fareed Zakaria GPS
Minneapolis on Edge After Man Killed by Border Patrol Agent; A Big Week for the World. Interview With Israeli President Isaac Herzog; Interview With Renee Good's Family Attorney Antonio Romanucci. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 25, 2026 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:01:12]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome to GPS, the GLOBAL PUBLIC SQUARE. I'm Anderson Cooper in Minneapolis, Minnesota. If you're expecting to see Fareed Zakaria, you will throughout much of this hour. He's got some great interviews in Davos, Switzerland that we're going to bring you. But we do want to bring you up to date on what is happening here in Minneapolis.
I'm not far from the scene where Alex Pretti, 37-year-old ICU nurse, was shot multiple times, 10 shots fired that we know about from the multiple videotapes that were taken yesterday. He was killed on the scene not far from where I am. At least two federal law enforcement agents fired shots at Alex Pretti. It's believed he died on the scene.
There is, according to federal officials, they say they are investigating what occurred. State investigators, state officials who would normally be involved in an investigation like this, any kind of police involved shooting in this state, they were denied access to the scene of the killing yesterday. They say that they had a signed search warrant by a judge allowing them access to be part of and to start their own investigation on the scene.
The federal law enforcement on the scene denied them access. When the federal law enforcement left, they were at the scene briefly, then community members, protesters came and kind of took over the site. We saw hundreds of protesters, community members who came out last night at the very location where Alex Pretti was killed, wanting to express their sadness, express their anger and their disgust at what has happened here, not just with Alex Pretti, but obviously what we have seen over the last several weeks, and their concerns about any kind of investigation that may or may not be done.
The statements made immediately after the killing of Alex Pretti by the secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, by a top border official, Greg Bovino, they do seem to be at odds with what we have now seen in multiple videos from the scene. What we have not yet seen any video of, and it's not clear exactly where the camera that Alex Pretti had that he was holding up, federal officials had kind of indicated that he would -- he was armed and was carrying a weapon confronting law enforcement officials. That is certainly not the case. According to multiple videos, he was
carrying a camera. We have not seen any video from his camera, which would be an important vantage point. We believe that is now in the hands of federal officials who say they are investigating.
There's a lot to get to. The videotape is crucial. The multiple video tapes. I want to bring in our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, to kind of walk us through the multiple videos and what we are seeing.
John, let's just start with your latest thoughts on what you've seen in these videos and kind of walk us through them.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's important to have the videos. It's important to have the videos from multiple angles as we learned again during the last shooting involving DHS agents with Renee Good. But there are a couple of critical moments that don't necessarily answer questions with certainty, but certainly raise the important ones.
So let's go to the first video. There is Alex Pretti. He's dressed in the brown with the black hat. He's videotaping with his phone in the street directing traffic a little bit. And in a moment you're going to see him advance down the street because a female who is standing in the street is encountered by an ICE agent.
[10:05:01]
And Pretti kind of gets in the middle of this to separate them. And the agent shoves her onto the snow, then sprays Pretti with a pepper spray directly, and decides he's going to take him down. He's trying to pull the woman who he was trying to get in between. He's trying to pull her away. Now he's on the ground surrounded by agents, this is where the critical moments come up. There's no indication at this point that they know he has a gun.
And at this moment, you see this agent right here. He draws his weapon, points it downward and goes back into the scrum. Just a few seconds later, not even a few, a second later, you hear the shot. This is one of those things where we need to know, what did he see? What caused that moment where he drew his weapon? Did he see the weapon from Alex Pretti?
There's another moment, which is on the other side of this video. We see an agent on the other side appearing to come out of that scrum, Anderson, holding a weapon pointed down as if he has picked it up. Now, there is a strong suggestion that that was Alex Pretti's weapon, that they had either taken off him or wrestled away from him, we don't know, coming out of that scene. But the important point is that gun is removed from the scrum before the shots are fired.
It would not be uncommon in that kind of confusion for the agents in that struggle not to know that one of them had removed the weapon and believed he was still armed. But these are all the questions that would be answered in a thorough, extensive investigation, the kind that the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension has a special unit that is especially dedicated to and has a lot of experience in.
Those are the people who have been so far barred from the case. And it's also the kind that the FBI shooting team from the inspections division would have a lot of experience in. But really right now from the Department of Justice, from Homeland Security, we don't have any firm direction as to whether or not there's a criminal investigation, whether or not it's into the shooting. Who's collecting that evidence? Who has that evidence and how it's being handled?
COOPER: The federal officials have said that they are investigating. Normally how would investigation like that take place and what involvement would local officials, state officials have?
MILLER: So in most cases, that investigation would take place with a combination of DHS officials that would participate. It would be led by the FBI on the idea of there's a two prong approach here. One is, was the shooting as a result of assault on federal officers? That would be a crime they would investigate. The other is, did they deny the civil rights of the person who got shot and in this case killed? We have no clarity that the FBI is in this case. And if so, how?
In the Renee Good case, we were told, and this is just obviously a couple of weeks ago, we were told by the deputy attorney general that they weren't investigating the shooting or any criminal liability on the part of agents. So having not a clear direction on what the investigation's direction is and having for the second time shut out experts from the local jurisdiction, which is not normal. Usually this is the kind of thing where you do that jointly with them.
You show them all the evidence, you use them to participate. At the very least, you let them watch the investigation and brief them at the end as to your findings, we're not getting that sense that this is happening and, you know, they're in court about it.
COOPER: Yes. It's an incredible set of circumstances. There are people gathering right now by the memorial that has sprung up on the scene where Alex Pretti was killed. I was out there earlier this morning, a few dozen people. That is likely to grow.
We're going to have more from Minneapolis ahead. When we return from break. Fareed Zakaria with some interviews from Davos.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:13:48]
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN ANCHOR: This is GPS, the GLOBAL PUBLIC SQUARE. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. I'm Fareed Zakaria coming to you from Davos, Switzerland.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAKARIA: Today on the program, Donald Trump roared into town.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All the United States is asking for is a place called Greenland. ZAKARIA: Blasting many of America's allies and friends in a long and
self-congratulatory speech.
TRUMP: Without us right now you'd all be speaking German and a little Japanese.
ZAKARIA: A day later, he left, having softened his stance.
TRUMP: It's a deal that everybody is very happy with.
ZAKARIA: I'll talk to Dr. Martin Wolf of "The Financial Times" about what to make of it all.
Then my interview with the president of Israel, Isaac Herzog. We talked about the next phase of the ceasefire with Gaza, Trump's Board of Peace, the recent unrest in Iran, and much more.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAKARIA: But first, here's "My Take."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You can say yes, and we will be very appreciative. Or you can say no, and we will remember.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAKARIA: That's what Donald Trump said here at Davos, laying out Europe's choices on Greenland.
[10:15:06]
When asked a senior European leader whether there was relief that Trump had stepped back from the threat of military action. He answered, yes, but we've now seen a pattern in his dealings with us. He treats us with contempt. And even if this crisis gets resolved, we will remember.
Trump's approach to leadership is primarily transactional. He begins by asking, who has more leverage? If the answer is him, he pushes as hard and as publicly as he can, not simply to win, but to dominate. Extracting the maximum price. For him, diplomacy is the art of the squeeze.
Trump enjoys using America's vast strength, built over generations, almost for sport. He plays tariffs on Switzerland, he explained, and then raised them sky high because the then Swiss president rubbed him the wrong way in his words. He relished recounting how quickly the Swiss came to him, seeking relief.
This was less strategy than a power play. Last year, NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte appeared to jokingly liken Trump to a daddy intervening in a schoolyard brawl, and Trump has repeated that line with evident pleasure, including at Davos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They called me daddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAKARIA: He seems to enjoy even insincere flattery because it shows that he is so powerful people have to fake their admiration for him.
The Europeans shouldn't take it personally. Trump uses the same style on anyone he perceives as weak. In Ukraine, his irritation has often fallen less on Russia, the aggressor, than on Ukraine for refusing to accept subordinate status. In dealing with countries like Brazil or South Africa. He's quick to lash out over policies he dislikes.
But with China, he often sounds deferential because Beijing possesses tools that could impose real costs on the United States. And of course, he adores the Gulf monarchies because they are swimming in cash, a form of strength he respects.
This is the opposite of how American leadership has worked in the modern era. The United States has been the dominant power in the world for close to a century, but its leaders understood that primacy is not only about coercion, it is also about legitimacy, reassurance and voluntary cooperation.
They grasped a basic truth. Power is more sustainable when it is exercised with restraint and influences larger when allies feel dignity rather than fear. Think of Franklin Roosevelt. America was the indispensable arsenal for the Allied cause. Without American aid, Britain and the Soviet Union would have lost the war and fast. Roosevelt could have summoned Churchill and Stalin to Washington like petitioners. Instead despite being confined to a wheelchair and gravely ill, he traveled for hours and hours to get to Casablanca, Tehran, and Yalta to meet them as equals, demonstrating in physical form the idea that partnership matters.
Donald Trump crowed more at Davos about winning World War II than did the man who actually did the winning. Or consider George H.W. Bush watching the berlin wall fall. The United States had won the Cold War, and Bush could have crowed. He deliberately did not. He said he did not want to dance on the wall, in part because he didn't want to steal the moment from Eastern Europeans who were winning their freedom.
And in part because he didn't want to humiliate Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who was allowing it to happen. Bush understood that how you win matters and that humiliating a weakening adversary can produce backlash and ruin the peace. Or consider India, over the last quarter century, the U.S. treated India as an important world player, even when it was still, by the numbers, a very poor country.
That respect was not charity. It was an investment that helped build strategic cooperation. Trump sees only the balance sheet. India's economy is much smaller than America's. Therefore, America can squeeze it by slapping prohibitively high tariffs.
This is the art of the hustle. Use the leverage you have, make the other side pay the highest price and treat bruises as proof of success. It may work in a one-off real estate deal. It is not how to build enduring businesses, let alone lasting global influence.
Since World War Two, there have been many places that the U.S. has considered strategically vital.
[10:20:03]
Western Europe, Norway and Finland, the South China Sea routes, the Persian Gulf, the approaches to Japan. But in that time, America has never concluded that strategic importance requires actual annexation. It has created security through alliances, access agreements, and forward presence. Greenland fits that tradition. The U.S. already has a base there, and it can expand its capabilities easily through cooperation rather than coercion.
Whether or not Trump gets his piece of ice, as he now calls Greenland, he's already accomplished something that will outlast the headlines. He's taught America's allies a lesson. They will still work with Washington, of course, because power is real. But they will trust it less, hedge more, and quietly plan for a world in which America no longer leads by lifting others up, but by reminding them they can be squeezed.
As that European leader put it, with the same cold clarity Trump thought belonged only to him, we will remember.
Go to FareedZakaria.com for a link to my "Washington Post" column this week. And let's get started.
Trump's announcement on Wednesday night that he had reached the framework of a deal over Greenland lowered the heart rates and blood pressure of many here in Davos, but the damage of his escalating threats over the territory had already been done. In a sobering speech that resonated loudly at Davos, Canada's Prime Minister Mark Carney said the rules based international order had been irreparably ruptured.
To talk about Davos and everything around it, I'm joined by Martin Wolf, chief economics commentator at "The Financial Times."
So, Martin, what was your takeaway from this rather unusual Davos?
MARTIN WOLF, CHIEF ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: Well, it's sort of shocking, but what's strange is the completely abnormal has suddenly become normal. We've been in this period now for a year. We had, of course, Trump won. It wasn't quite like this, but I did hear him when he came to speak in that term. And it's sort of a freak show in normal terms. The way he talks, the way he presents himself. His obvious megalomania. The way he makes things up.
All that is something we've just got used to. So you step back from that and look at what has actually happened. Well, he's withdrawn from the trade war we thought we were going to be in by now over Greenland, or is it Iceland? So relations seem to have sort of been calmed down by Mark Rutte and so forth. That was a really big worry. He's got some sort of peace board, which I think actually might even be relevant in the Middle East.
And I think he might actually be the only person who could conceivably do something about the Middle East. And so when I look at it all, the economy is doing OK. In fact, rather better than we feared. So despite all this noise, the incredible commotion around him, things seem quite normal and not so terrible.
ZAKARIA: And, you know, despite the circus of the politics, as you say, what's striking, and we saw this at Davos, everybody is bullish about America and A.I. Do you think -- what explains that? You know, a world where the politics seems to be roiling but the economy is humming.
WOLF: What we're benefiting from is the capital, knowledge, skills that have been built up across the economy in the last 20 years. China has a phenomenally effective economic machine. America has phenomenally effective economic machine. The technological innovation happening everywhere. So we can be fixated on the noise and the sound and the fury. But what I tend to say is build on the basis of what we built up over 200 years, but particularly since 1945.
The economy of the world is a fantastic momentum machine. And stopping that, that's beyond the powers of these powers.
ZAKARIA: Do you think -- you've talked to so many officials. Has trust been eroded?
WOLF: Oh, yes. Trust is gone. So this relates to the long term costs. So will countries, businesses be prepared to bet their future on trade in general? It's a very big question. But on trade with the U.S. in particular, given not only the uncertainty about policy, but these trade deals were extortionate, literally extortionate. They took hundreds of billions of dollars out of this. Secretary Lutnick was congratulating himself and America on how much money they'd extracted from all their allies.
People know all this, so they -- but the way I put this is everybody now being in private sector or in government has to hedge. And that was the essence of what Mark Carney said in his wonderful speech.
[10:25:02]
When everybody hedging is costly, it means there are risks you won't take. You're not going to bet on a proposition which depends on access, stable, secure access for many, many years, which is what the WTO was designed to give in America. Will you do that? No, because the deal could be changed overnight. So the cumulative costs of the degradation of principle, the degradation of predictability of law, international and domestic, are, in my view, are bound to be very heavy. But we'll see it slowly.
And Gita Gopinath has been saying this, a very important point, former chief economist at the IMF, that if you look at Brexit, we now know the costs have been cumulative. After ten years we can see them. It's very wrong to look at the costs of what is being done here, in terms of the shock in the day. ZAKARIA: Right. Right.
WOLF: The markets will show some of it because the markets are forward looking, but the effects we will see and I'm sure they will be there will be of opportunities lost, showing slower growth, maybe offset by the technological innovation. I'm not sure.
ZAKARIA: Martin Wolf, pleasure to have you on.
WOLF: Pleasure.
ZAKARIA: Next on GPS, I talk to the president of Israel about Iran, Gaza and Trump's new Board of Peace.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:30:44]
ZAKARIA: The last time I interviewed Israeli President Isaac Herzog was at Davos one year ago. And the situation in the Middle East looked quite different. There was a temporary ceasefire in Gaza, which was to end less than two months later with a renewal of Israeli military action. Now, of course, Donald Trump has negotiated a more lasting ceasefire but many questions remain about its durability.
A year ago, Syria's Assad regime had recently fallen. Iran's nuclear program had not yet been attacked by America. What a difference a year can make. Here's my interview from Thursday with President Herzog.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAKARIA: So since we've last spoken, it does seem as though Israel's strategic position has improved remarkably. Iran has been defanged. President Trump says the nuclear program is obliterated. The Syrian government, which has long been a foe of Israel, has been overturned. Hezbollah is a shadow of itself, and Hamas is at the very least neutered in all substantial forms. Israel controls Gaza.
To you, does this feel like Israel is in a more secure and commanding position than it has been in decades?
ISAAC HERZOG, ISRAELI PRESIDENT: So I would say that, first of all, we are in a better position after fighting a war of various fronts heroically and bravely. But the dark clouds are still hanging out there. For example, it is clear to us that the Iranians are regrouping and they haven't stopped for one moment in their plight to spread terror all over the world, as well as move towards their big, grand plans of weapons of mass destruction.
We know -- and that Hezbollah is trying to do the same in meaning to regroup, rebuild its force, and perhaps once kind of to deceive us that it's not doing so. And we know that the Houthis are out there still conniving and planning terror attacks. We should not sit on our laurels in any way.
And, of course, in Hamas. Hamas is still there in Gaza, holding our last hostage, Ran Gvili, who we are screaming out loud to bring him back home according to the agreements that were agreed upon.
So I would say, all in all, the balance sheet is better, but we should not be kind of over optimistic and believe that all is well because we live in a, you know, in a dangerous circumstance. And of course, in a volatile region.
ZAKARIA: When you look at Iran and you see these recent protests, which really have been the most widespread certainly in several years, and the government is much weaker both economically and militarily, do you think the Iranian regime is in danger of collapsing? And can the outside world do anything to help hasten that collapse?
HERZOG: The Iranian people are yearning for change. The Iranian people deserve change. They deserve decent life. The Iranian people live under a very oppressive regime, a regime which has mowed thousands of its citizens and is torturing and jailing and is destroying thousands of families, perhaps tens of thousands, perhaps much more all around Iran, trying to crush the natural demand of human beings for a better life and for freedom.
I mean, you know, the horizon, the future for the Iranian people can only be in a regime change. And that has to be, you know, at the end, within the realms of the Iranian people and the international community and its support. It's clear to me that the Ayatollah regime is in quite a fragile situation.
ZAKARIA: We hear reports out of Syria that ISIS fighters are being released, that there is a greater degree of chaos within the country.
[10:35:08]
What is your understanding of what's going on in Syria, and how worried is Israel that it spills over in some way?
HERZOG: We look at Syria very cautiously. We are worried about our allies, the Druze on the south. Now, we got reports about what happened to the Kurds. It is also extremely worrying. We are watching that as well.
But I say the overall aim should be a quiet and peaceful life and a peaceful coexistence with Syria. And we wish well Syria, Syria and its leaders, so that they can bring a better future for the Syrian people.
ZAKARIA: You believe still that this new Syrian government is worth trusting, worth supporting, and hoping that it will handle these issues?
HERZOG: So, we listen to our friends, the Americans, who are very much involved and other nations in the region who are operating and meeting with President Sharaa and his team. I know they are trying their best.
And I say always -- you know, my mom taught me always a sentence from childhood. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. We have to see that it really goes in the right direction.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ZAKARIA: Stay with us. When we return, I will ask President Herzog about an awkward request he has received directly from Donald Trump to pardon Israel's prime minister, Bibi Netanyahu. What will he do? I'll ask him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:41:16]
ZAKARIA: More now of my interview with Israel's president, Isaac Herzog, at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAKARIA: Let's talk about Gaza. What we have now is a ceasefire, and the ceasefire has ended a lot of the violence. But Israel is still engaged in almost daily attacks. Israel controls more than 50 percent of Gaza. And the other part is controlled by Hamas.
So the conditions that Israel -- that Prime Minister Netanyahu had set out, the total defeat of Hamas, have not been achieved. Israel is still in Gaza. It feels like a very unbalanced settlement. Do you believe that there are steps forward that are going to result in a resolution of some of these issues?
HERZOG: So, you know, that's where it comes in, the incredible diplomatic effort of President Trump and his leadership, the carving out of the 20-point plan, which was later disseminated and implemented by a unique historical Security Council resolution, which was adopted 13 to nil and which calls for the next phase, meaning getting Hamas out as a military organization and thereafter going for a major Marshall plan for Gaza with historic consequences for the entire region.
So it's not a standstill. It's a stage by stage process whereby we've brought Hamas into a situation where we annihilated most of its leaders on the ground, and now the next phase has to be this international effort, which so far is building in front of our eyes. So, we must give it a chance.
In my mind, the people of Gaza, the children of Gaza, deserve a good life. They should have good life, just like all of us deserve good life in the region. But it cannot be under the thumb of terrorists and cannot be under the guns of terrorists. It has to be without terrorism and giving a future to the people of Gaza.
ZAKARIA: Saudi Arabia has said that it will normalize relations with Israel only if there are serious and irreversible steps toward Palestinian statehood. Do you think that that is a deal that is that is conceivable?
HERZOG: Saudi Arabia is a very, very important nation. And I always say it's my dream to, you know, to see the crown prince and the leader of Saudi Arabia signed with us an agreement on moving forward. And Saudi Arabia is, you know, is the most important house of the Sunni Muslims around the world with the holiest places for Islam. And I think that the vision of Saudi Arabia and Israel is a vision of rapprochement between Jews and Muslims, which should be the future vision of the Middle East.
ZAKARIA: And therefore could Israel agree to its condition?
HERZOG: So, I'm saying because it has to -- it's been dealt with also with other elements. You know, the crown prince, Sheikh Mohammed bin Salman, in the White House, in the Oval Office mentioned, of course, the pathway for a Palestinian state. It is clear the position of the Saudis. And I'm sure that once we move on to the next phase of the Gaza plan and further processes, things will be discussed.
[10:45:02]
ZAKARIA: Right now in the West Bank, though, things seem to be moving in the opposite direction. There are more settlements, more violence against Palestinians, more annexations. Isn't that making a two-state solution impossible?
HERZOG: So, I would say that, you know, Israel is going into an election year, and it's going to be a very heated public debate on many, many issues. The issue of the two-state solution, Palestinian state is an issue that is one of these issues that will be debated.
I would say also, there is a lot of rethinking and reanalysis amongst Israelis about what is the best way of living together with our neighbors. I think it's a must that we build a future of coexistence and peace between Israelis and Palestinians. But how -- what will be the political format and the outcome will be discussed also in our elections.
ZAKARIA: President Trump has made a direct request to you. He has asked that you pardon Prime Minister Netanyahu in advance for any and all crimes he may have committed. Will you pardon Prime Minister Netanyahu?
HERZOG: I've said time and again that I respect President Trump tremendously. And of course, we have our own legal system, and I will operate within its ambles. I must say that I've said time and again in the last few years that the court case where president -- Prime Minister Netanyahu is at the center of should have been resolved and should be resolved amicably and because it has a very negative impact on our system. And I think that solutions should be found.
The rest I will leave to the, you know, to the procedure, because at the end I will operate and take my decisions independently according to the rules, the law and my conscience. And that's what I can say at this moment.
ZAKARIA: But when you say it should be resolved amicably, that suggests you mean that -- I mean, court cases are generally --
HERZOG: No. I said, in the past a few times that there should have been a settlement of this case. I mentioned in the Israeli public it hasn't come to such fruition. And therefore came the process of the request for the pardon and also the letter and the request of President Trump, which I always -- you know, I always respect, but I operate as the head of state of the Israeli nation, and I will operate accordingly.
ZAKARIA: Mr. President, thank you so much.
HERZOG: Thank you very much. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That was Fareed Zakaria in Davos, Switzerland. I'm Anderson Cooper here in Minneapolis picking up for Fareed. When we come back, we'll have the latest on the killing of Alex Pretti. The latest on what we know about any investigation that may be going on. And we'll talk to the attorney for the other citizen here who was killed weeks ago, Renee Good. We'll talk to her attorney when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:52:47]
ZAKARIA: We're back in Minneapolis. I'm here with Antonio Romanucci, who is the attorney for Renee Good, who was killed here several weeks ago. I appreciate you coming out.
ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, ATTORNEY FOR RENEE GOOD'S FAMILY: Thank you, Anderson.
ZAKARIA: First of all, your thoughts on what we saw yesterday, the videos that have emerged.
ROMANUCCI: Well, first of all, we thought that there would have been a lesson learned from what happened to Renee and her family. The suffering that they're going through. There hasn't been much learned.
When we look at yesterday's video, what we see is -- you know, we've been told that he was brandishing a weapon. The definition of brandishing is you have to see the weapon. It has to be used in an intimidating manner. We don't see that.
If there is an investigation, let us see him brandishing the weapon. Let us see what it is that you were defending yourself against.
COOPER: He was holding a cell phone.
ROMANUCCI: Yes, he was holding a cell phone and his other hand was free. So, we don't know about this weapon. If there is an investigation, show us that he was doing this.
COOPER: Who -- I mean, the state now, state investigators who would normally be involved in investigating an officer involved shooting, they had a signed search warrant. They were not allowed access to the scene. What does that tell you?
ROMANUCCI: Well, what does that tell me? Again, if they say they're investigating, why not let other people investigate alongside them? Don't hide what you're doing. Let us see. Be transparent with the public.
That's why things escalate. Because people don't have answers to what they see. They see it with their own eyes. We see the video. We understand what we see. Don't gaslight us.
COOPER: How much of the problem or what adds to the problem is you have the secretary of Homeland Security. You have other, you know, border patrol officials. Greg Bovino coming out essentially saying this person is -- implying he's a domestic terrorist, implying he was brandishing a weapon, that he was confronting officers with, the weapon that he was resisting arrest.
ROMANUCCI: Well, again, it's a gaslight. You can't conflate, you know, exercising your First Amendment right to peacefully assemble or speak your mind with being a domestic terrorist. That is completely inapposite and not true. You heard about who he is, what he was doing. He was not anything of what they were saying that he really was.
[10:55:02]
COOPER: So what happens now here in this city? I mean, you know this city well. It's -- tensions are incredibly high.
ROMANUCCI: Here's what I think needs to happen. There needs to be a hard reset here.
I mean, ICE and border patrol, they need to leave. They need to explain what it is their mission is.
And this city can't leave. The people of Minneapolis cannot leave. ICE and border patrol can. Let's have a hard reset. And let's have an understanding. This cannot continue.
COOPER: Have you been surprised by the professionalism or lack thereof, or just the tactics being used by some of these federal officers?
ROMANUCCI: Well, I think the tactics that they're using is because there's messaging being given to them that they have absolute immunity. Well, they don't have absolute immunity. That's not correct. That's not a correct legal basis.
COOPER: They've (ph) been (ph) told by Stephen Miller that they have absolute immunity.
ROMANUCCI: Yes, that's not correct. I mean, they have some protections, but not absolute immunity. And so these tactics are excessive. Look at what they're doing, how they're handling people who are just filming using -- exercising their rights. You can't do that to American citizens.
COOPER: What -- where does this go? I mean, nobody -- I mean, nobody can say, obviously.
ROMANUCCI: Yes, we don't know where it's going to go, but I think I do know where it needs to go. And that's with the hard reset. I think they just need to calmly and quietly leave and reassess the situation and go forth with the mission, not against American people. But if you want to get the worst of the worst, you must have a plan that is not chaotic, does not disrupt the city, does not disrupt an economy, and first and foremost does not violate people's rights.
COOPER: You're the attorney for the family of Renee Good. Have you had communication with federal officials who say that they are investigating?
ROMANUCCI: No, we have not. We have not heard anything. I mean, as you know, we've served them a very important letter of protection, to preserve our evidence. In Renee's case, we have not heard anything yet.
COOPER: What does it tell you that they did not allow state officials to get access to the crime scene, even with a signed search warrant?
ROMANUCCI: Well, it's clear. They want control over the evidence. They don't want anybody else to have that control. So, that tells me that they may want to massage evidence. And let's hope not. It has to be clear, unbiased, transparent and accountable investigation.
COOPER: They have -- they have -- by all accounts they would have the cell phone that Mr. Pretti was carrying, that he was filming with.
ROMANUCCI: Certainly, certainly. And that's why the state, I think, is being so aggressive right now, because, you know, opposite of what happened to Renee, who was not video recording, Mr. Pretti was. So, that phone is very important.
COOPER: Yes. Antonio Romanucci, I really appreciate your time today.
ROMANUCCI: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Thank you very much. I'm sorry under these circumstances. We'll have more from Minneapolis in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
