Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Impact of President Reagan's Death on '04 Election; Colleagues Remember Former President

Aired June 10, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Are memories of Ronald Reagan affecting voters' attitudes about the Bush-Kerry race? A new poll raises eyebrows and some controversy.

Two men who worked closely with the great communicator look back on their years with the Reagans, former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Michael Deaver and former Press Secretary James Brady, who was wounded in the attempt to assassinate the president.

Plus, a familiar subject keeps coming up at the G-8 Summit.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Iraqi people need help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Now, a special edition of JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS, live from Washington

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us.

As the G-8 Summit comes to a close in Georgia and President Bush prepares for a news conference just about an hour from now, or maybe less, the focus here in Washington remains on the ceremonies honoring the life of Ronald Reagan.

Thousands of mourners continue to endure hours-long waits in the summer heat to come into the Capitol Rotunda for their chance to view the casket of the late president. Mr. Reagan's body will lie in state for a total of 34 hours, leading up to tomorrow's state funeral. President Bush and first lady Laura Bush are expected to visit the Rotunda, as well as meet with Nancy Reagan when they return to Washington this evening. Before leaving Georgia, however, Mr. Bush plans to meet with reporters.

And for a preview, let's turn to CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash. She's in Savannah.

Hi, Dana Bash.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy.

And the president will likely be talking about what he did here over the past several days talking to world leaders. And, of course, there have been a lot of official issues on the docket, like Africa, AIDS in Africa, like promoting democracy in the Middle East. But, certainly, the overarching issue was Iraq.

And the president had a big political victory going into this summit, the first day, a U.N. resolution unanimously voting to support the political process moving forward in Iraq. That is something that his aides were quite happy about, doing a lot of interviews about, making themselves available, as we discussed over the past couple of days.

And Mr. Bush was able to do here what he himself said he could never have imagined just a year and half ago. And that is sit down with the Iraqi interim president. That was a meeting that was dripping with symbolism, as the president was trying to make the case that Iraq is democratic and certainly moving towards free elections, he hopes, there.

But, of course, the unofficial theme here is a new spirit of unity, particularly between leaders who disagree vehemently over whether or not it was right to go to war in Iraq. And it has become clear, however, over the past 24 hours or so that, despite the fact that they want to talk about unity, when you get down to the details, the divide quickly emerges.

For example, just a few hours after President Bush said that he thought it might be a good idea to get NATO more involved in Iraq, Jacques Chirac, the French president, came out and poured cold water on the idea. He said that that is not a good idea, that that is not NATO's role. And the two men actually met this morning. They talked about the issue, they said. And they came out and told reporters that they simply would continue to consult on the issue.

And also, President Bush has yet to get any tangible pledges of help from any of these leaders, a pledge for troops on the ground, any pledge for new financial aid, even a pledge to relieve Iraq of some of its debt. So, certainly, there is a lot of talk about being united. But when you get down to the nitty-gritty, there are certainly some divides that are being shown.

One thing that the White House is saying that they are quite happy about is the fact that they were able to get members of the G-8 and also Mideast leaders, Arab leaders that they invited here, to sign on to a new initiative that they hope will promote democracy, entrepreneurship, literacy in the Mideast. That is something that they've been working for months for -- unclear how much of an impact this is going to have. But, certainly, as one White House official said, at least it's a start -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And, Dana, when the president does get back to Washington tonight, he's going to be paying his respects at the Capitol for President Reagan. Tell us about the plans.

BASH: Well, tonight is a chance for President Bush and Mrs. Bush to pay their personal respects to President Reagan. As soon as he arrives in Washington, he will go straight to the Capitol, to the Rotunda. And the two will pay tribute to President Reagan. And they will be among the many dignitaries that of course we saw going into the Rotunda to do so today.

Then they will go pay a condolence call to Nancy Reagan, have a personal meeting with her. And, of course, Mr. Bush will give a eulogy tomorrow morning at the National Cathedral -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dana Bash, following all the events at the G-8 Summit, thank you very much.

Well, now turning to politics and the race for the White House, the campaigns have been pretty much on hold this week, with the exception of television ads. John Kerry is here in Washington today, but he has no public events scheduled.

A new national poll, meanwhile, shows Kerry leading the president by seven points. "The Los Angeles Times" survey gives Kerry 51 percent and Bush 44 percent. With Ralph Nader in the race, Kerry leads by six points. A Bush campaign spokesman today questioned the poll's reliability and implied the poll's sample was tilted toward Democratic voters. It is worth noting, however, that a Gallup survey that we reported earlier this week showed Kerry leading Bush by six points.

Well, CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times" wrote about the poll results in today's newspaper. He joins me here in Washington.

Ron, first of all, what is important about this poll? What do you see in there that we should take note of?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, to me, the horse race is going to vary month by month, maybe week by week, until November.

The history is, when we have a president who is around 50 percent in approval, we have very volatile races, with a lot of moving parts in the public. What's significant about this poll to me is a couple things. The most significant thing is the evidence of a growing desire for change. That to me is the real threat to President Bush.

We had nearly three-fifths of the country saying that America is off on the wrong track. And we had a solid 56 percent majority saying that we should pursue a new direction, a new course, rather than the policies President Bush is pursuing. Those are the kinds of trends.

It also shows that John Kerry still has a lot of work to do to really make an impression on the American public. Even though he does well on one critical variable, is he ready to be commander in chief, about 60 percent the people say yes, only about half say they know enough about his domestic policy to have a clear impression and even fewer about his foreign policy. So he clearly he has some work to do, but the real challenge to President Bush is a growing desire for change.

WOODRUFF: What about the complaint from the Bush people? Ron, among other things, they were calling this poll -- quote -- "a mess" and they were saying it relied too much on Democratic voters. BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, there is a methodological disagreement that is almost a theological disagreement.

The question is, what is the most accurate snapshot of the electorate at any time? And I will say to you, any one poll at any time has to be compared against everything else that is out there, because there is certainly no shortage of polling. They argue that the poll should be adjusted to sort of a predetermined sense of how the electorate divides between Republicans, Democrats and independents.

Our view, and I believe the Gallup view also, is that that is a moving variable and that what you receive in the poll is a reflection of actual changes. And so that really is the argument between -- that the Bush people are raising. I think viewers should look at any one poll within the context of everything else that's out there. And there's no single monopoly on the truth.

WOODRUFF: Now, the poll, Ron, also looked at specific battleground states. And there seems to be some variance with the national numbers. Talk about that.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

Well, first of all, we looked at three states, in addition to looking at the results nationally, Ohio and Missouri, which President Bush won last time, but are top target for Democrats, and Wisconsin, which Al Gore won and is now a top target for the Republicans.

In all of these states, President Bush is in a stronger position. The key -- the clear difference is that there is a campaign going on in these states to a much greater degree than there is for most Americans in the broad national sample. Over $40 million, Judy, has already been spent in television in these three states. And, in them, John Kerry's image is not as positive as it nationally. And President Bush has a stronger advantage than he does nationally when voters are asked who would be a stronger leader.

And that to me is probably the critical variable that moves, that tilts these states a little bit. Missouri, he has a lead. Ohio and Wisconsin are pretty much dead heats.

WOODRUFF: But, still, for some looking at this, Ron, that's a contradiction. You have got the president doing better in some important key states, but then you've got John Kerry doing better nationally. It's a struggle to understand that.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: First of all, every state has an independent relationship to the national number. Ohio and Missouri tend to run more Republican than the national average. For example, Bush ran ahead of his results in both states in 2000.

Wisconsin is a state that is closer to the national average, but it has been problematic for Kerry this year. And it is reflective I think of Bush's continuing strength, one thing that is clear even in the national poll, among culturally conservative voters, gun owners, rural families, married couples, people who go to church regularly. Those kind of voters are very strong for him. And that is helping him in a number of these Midwestern battlegrounds.

WOODRUFF: But just quickly to sum up, something in this poll both for John Kerry to worry about and for George Bush to worry about. What would that be?

BROWNSTEIN: George Bush, the clear worry is a desire to change, the wrong-track numbers, the sense that we need a new direction in policy. For Kerry, I think the biggest worry is the sign that one of the Bush core arguments is penetrating. By 2-1 in the national surveys, people said he was more likely to flip-flop on issues than President Bush is.

The flip side of the flip-flop charge, though, is that people are more likely to see Bush as arrogant or stubborn. That may be a central point of argument between them through the fall. What is the proper mode of leadership? Is it adjusting or is it setting a course and sticking to it?

WOODRUFF: A lot of fertile ground to plow here.

Ron Brownstein, thanks very much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Thanks for coming by.

Well, leaders around the world are gathering here in Washington for Ronald Reagan's funeral. Just ahead, we'll have details of that, plus an emotional interview with former Reagan aide Michael Deaver. And we'll take you live to Capitol Hill, where thousands of people, including many VIPs, are paying their respects to the late president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: A truly impressive roster of current and former world leaders will be attending Ronald Reagan's funeral here in Washington tomorrow, among them, former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, former Polish President Lech Walesa, and the former prime ministers of Britain and Canada, Margaret Thatcher and Brian Mulroney. They will both deliver eulogies, along with President Bush and his father, the first President Bush.

In all, more than two dozen current and former heads of state will attend the service at the National Cathedral.

Just a few hours ago, I spoke with Michael Deaver, who was one of the five honorary pallbearers for President Reagan. He was a longtime adviser, friend and deputy chief of staff from 1981 to 1985.

I started by asking him if, in all the whirlwind of activities, he's had time for personal thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL DEAVER, FORMER REAGAN DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: Yes. Yes.

And it -- you know, I mean, it's amazing, the emotion that sort of comes when you've known this was going to happen, 93 years old. You haven't seen him for a long time. And yet, it still just hits you like -- I just miss him.

WOODRUFF: Is there any memory of him that keeps coming back to you, that you keep...

DEAVER: No.

It's just a general impression of this kind, decent, most wonderful person I ever knew. It just -- you know, it's this general impression. And I think it's the same impression that you see with the people who were standing along the street yesterday and who have been out to California and are now going through the Capitol.

It's just, generally, here was an authentic person, for God sakes. Out of all of this we have in America today, here was a real guy.

WOODRUFF: In other words, there was no other private Ronald Reagan?

DEAVER: Never. Never.

WOODRUFF: You're saying he was the same to you and other close people.

DEAVER: Everybody always asks me, what's he really like?

I say, he's really like what you see. There was no behind the curtain. There was no, I'll be this way with one person and that with another. It was always the same. And it was always the same for 35 years. Can you say about anybody you know, particularly when it comes to this town? I can't.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: You've been with Nancy Reagan. How is she doing?

DEAVER: Well, you know, she looks frail when you see her on television, but her heart is strong.

And she's going to get through this. And I don't know how. I don't know how she does it. I didn't know how she did it for the last 10 years, frankly. But, you know, that's their life. That's been her priority. It still is.

WOODRUFF: What's it been like for her the last few years?

DEAVER: Well, I think it's been lonely and sad and tough. It's -- I can't really imagine what it's like to have the person. And, for all of us, we're sort of mortals. That love affair was -- I'd never seen anything like it, ever. And you see that now. You see it, really see it, in the way she touches, in the way she is with him still.

WOODRUFF: Was she ready for this, do you think?

DEAVER: I don't think she was ever ready. Who can be ready? It's -- at least he was there, so -- in some way. Now it's really final. And I think that's tough.

WOODRUFF: How do you think she is going to do going forward? What do you see her role going forward?

DEAVER: I don't know.

I just assume that she's going to do what she's always done. And that is defend him, support the legacy, be the champion, you know. Until her last breath, she's going to be out there. I always said about Nancy, if Ronald Reagan owned a shoe store like his dad, she'd have been pushing shoes.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAVER: And that's what it's going to be.

WOODRUFF: You had a large hand, I gather, in planning some of these activities, the events surrounding the funeral this week.

DEAVER: Well, there were...

WOODRUFF: Is it...

DEAVER: Well -- go ahead. Go ahead.

I think there were a lot -- you know, first of all, this is a protocol that's been in existence for over 100 years. There are things the family can put in. But, basically, it's a protocol that had been for 10 presidents.

WOODRUFF: But not every president has chosen this.

DEAVER: No. No, that's right.

WOODRUFF: Is it unfolding the way you thought it would?

DEAVER: Better. Better.

And, you know, what's amazed me, in, you know, participating yesterday at Andrews, is the precision. I mean, when we have an inaugural every four years, we have 90 days to put it together. These guys have had four days to put together this massive tribute and military operation. And to me -- and no blips, no flaws, everything respectful. It's just stunning.

WOODRUFF: It was an -- it was an extraordinary day yesterday. The whole week has been.

Surprised at the outpouring of affection and admiration?

DEAVER: No. I mean, I think we've seen it coming.

WOODRUFF: In terms of the sheer numbers of people?

DEAVER: No, not to me. I mean, I think we've seen that coming over the years, the growing love for him and for her that's grown, watching the two of them deal with this Alzheimer's.

And so many people who have to deal with it themselves out there today and -- or illnesses like it. I couldn't help it. Yesterday, when she got out of the car on Constitution Avenue, and there was sort of a stillness, and then this applause sort of grew and grew and grew. Now, I think -- he always said there was a reason for everything. We're being able to see Nancy the way he saw her now, as this great strength of his life. And I think the American people are seeing that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Michael Deaver will be flying with Nancy Reagan on the plane back to California with the body of President Reagan. He will be with the family through the burial.

Well, congressional staffers have their own line to view President Reagan's coffin in the Capitol Rotunda. But, at times, they, too, have had a long wait. Coming up, a look at a day that has been anything but normal on Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It has been a day of long lines and long waits on Capitol Hill, even for members of congressional staffs.

Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry joins me now with more on today's mood on the Hill.

Hello, Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good day, Judy.

I just went through the Rotunda myself. It's quite moving to see the casket up close. There was a count by the Capitol Police that 30,000 people have already gone past that casket. They're rechecking the numbers right now, so that's not an official count. That was just from 9:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m., the overnight numbers.

Then, there is a separate line, as you mentioned, for congressional staff, thousands of people in that line. At one point, the wait was two hours just for congressional staff alone. So that boosts the numbers even more, while obviously expecting thousands more throughout the afternoon and this evening overnight into tomorrow morning as well. We've also seen many, many dignitaries come through. Senator Majority Leader Bill Frist earlier today escorted in the new Iraqi president, Ghazi al-Yawar, history in the making right before our eyes. Former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole also came through, former presidential candidate, obviously knew Ronald Reagan well.

Sandra Day O'Connor, the first female Supreme Court justice, obviously appointed by Ronald Reagan, she came through. Prince Charles, we're expecting him later this evening, plenty of dignitaries. So it's just been a stream of people coming through, motorcades behind us. And while there is a lot of sadness, you hear a lot of people also saying that they've been quite moved and that's why they're here. They want to show their respect for former President Reagan.

And one final note. We mentioned yesterday that a lot of Republicans have come forward with all kinds of ideas, ways to honor former President Reagan. Now Senator Majority Leader Bill Frist is saying that he is going to put together -- he has already put together a working group that is going to sift through all these different ideas and try to figure out what is the best way in fact to honor President Reagan -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Ed Henry, reporting from the Capitol. And, as Ed said, he himself was able to go through the Rotunda just a short time ago. Ed, thank you very much.

We want to let all of you know that we've just learned that President Bush's news conference at the conclusion of the G-8 Summit will begin in just a few minutes. That's about a half hour earlier than we had been told. But CNN will carry that live, just as soon as it gets under way, the G-8 Summit concluding there in Sea Island, Georgia.

Back here in Washington, problems on a plane carrying Kentucky's governor triggered an evacuation of the U.S. Capitol before yesterday's arrival of President Reagan's casket. The problem with the plane's transponder apparently prevented air traffic controllers from tracking the plane.

But we want to check all that now with homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve, who has been looking into all this.

And I have to say, Jeanne, I was one of those who was told by the police to run as fast as I could to get away from the Capitol. They were serious while they thought this was serious.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. You know better certainly than I do what was going on up there and just how short a hair-trigger they were up there.

What we've been trying to do is piece together what was happening on the ground with what was happening up in the air. And here's the timeline that we've been able to put together at this point in time. The aircraft carrying Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher took off from Cincinnati at about 2:45 local time, having filed all the necessary paperwork and gotten a waiver to land at Reagan National Airplane.

Shortly after takeoff, the governor's office said, the plane developed problems with its transponder, a device which transmits identifying information. Before the flight was even halfway to Washington, the pilot told air traffic controllers about his transponder problems. They advised him to proceed to Reagan National.

Then they told him to go to Dulles, then revised their instructions and told him again to go on to National. According to the governor's press secretary, the pilot was in constant communication with controllers, doing exactly what the controllers told him to do. But, at approximately 4:24, federal officials say, when the plane made a hard right turn into the air defense zone around Washington, D.C., it became a target of interest -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: We are going to have to interrupt. My apologies.

MESERVE: OK.

WOODRUFF: But I'm told that President Bush has just stepped up to the lectern at Sea Island to talk about the conclusion of the G-8 Summit.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

WOODRUFF: President George W. Bush finishing up a news conference after the G8 Summit in Sea Island, Georgia. Walking away with Mrs. Bush.

The news he made, among other things, the president was asked about the interrogation methods of terrorism suspects. The president in the face of new evidence that there were memos sent from the attorney general to the Defense Department saying that the -- using torture or methods akin to torture was acceptable.

The president said we only -- those interrogators, he said, had to abide by the law. And beyond that, when he was asked about NATO and bringing other countries in from NATO, to support the U.S. efforts in Iraq he said he doesn't really expect other countries to provide troops. He said that he does, though, expect them to help with training.

CNN's senior White House correspondent John King is with us now. John, the president certainly had serious comments to make but he also seemed to be in a particularly jovial mood.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Judy, often, you can tell from the start when the president doesn't exactly enjoy being part of these press conferences. Clearly today, very upbeat spirits.

You noted one area, when asked about the torture memos, the president was a bit tense about that. Also refused to talk at all about the vice president's meeting with the prosecutors in the CIA leaks investigation. Mr. Bush brushing off questions there. But otherwise he was in quite upbeat spirits. There is a difference with France right now. The president wants NATO to step in, be much more aggressive in helping to train Iraqi troops and security forces. President Jacques Chirac hasn't said no but he has said he doesn't think that's the right approach.

Mr. Bush, though, saying he's willing to work with Mr. Chirac. He'll get there. At one point, joking when asked how do they resolve these policy differences. Saying they go off into corners of the room and face the wall suggesting perhaps a duel or some sort of an argument.

The president clearly in a upbeat mood here, Judy. He believes this summit helped him allay the concerns that he refuses to business with other world leaders. That has been a problem for him around the world. There's also, of course, it's been an issue the presidential campaign. Senator John Kerry saying this president has fundamentally mismanaged traditional alliances. Mr. Bush hoping this meeting here in Sea Island helps rebut Senator Kerry's claim and perhaps help boost his image in the world just a bit.

WOODRUFF: John, it was interesting. The president said for all this talk about the U.S. and differences in Europe, he said the focus of the disagreements is the U.S. and France. And then he was separately asked about that gun that belonged to Saddam Hussein, asked if he would give it back to the Iraqis. And he basically said no.

KING: He said it was the property of the United States government. That gun, that pistol is now on a plaque in the president's private study just off the Oval Office. He noted it was the Delta Team that captured Saddam Hussein that brought that it to him.

Perhaps if the Iraqis asked for it they would get it back. But the president seems pretty reluctant to part with that souvenir, Judy.

The president in a very upbeat mood. I tried to asked him if he's upset at Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Kuwait for not coming here. The Middle East initiative is so important to him. We do know privately the president is not happy that they didn't send representatives. Publicly, he said he understands their nervousness. The president clearly tried to put the best face on this summit as he moves forward.

WOODRUFF: Even commented on Jacques Chirac's complimenting the food.

KING: They say he likes the cheeseburgers, Judy. We don't know if he had freedom fries.

WOODRUFF: OK. John King reporting from the G8 summit. Thank you, John. We'll see you back in Washington tonight.

Well as the United States mourns the death of former President Ronald Reagan, there is now word this afternoon that an American music legend is dead. Singer Ray Charles died this morning of complications of liver disease at his home in Beverly Hills. He was 73 years old. In a career that spanned multiple decades, included 12 Grammy awards, Ray Charles had hits in jazz, blues, big band and even country music.

Blind since the age of 7 and an orphan since 15, Charles made a name for himself with such hits as "Hit the Road, Jack" and "Georgia on my Mind."

CNN's Fredricka Whitfield has more on the life and amazing musical career of Ray Charles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Ray Charles' life was a rags to riches story, told with lyrics and melodies liberally laced with soul.

Born Ray Charles Robinson on September 23, 1930 to Aretha and Bailey Robinson in rural Albany, Georgia. The family was desperately poor. By the time he was 7 years old, glaucoma was robbed Charles of his sight. But before he went blind he saw his little brother drown.

Charles credits his mother with helping him overcome blindness and become independent.

RAY CHARLES, AMERICAN MUSIC LEGEND: She was watching me go blind. You know, she knew I was going to lose my sight. But her thing was you still got that brain. You still can think. And there are two ways to do everything. You just got to figure out which one is good for you. That was the influence my mom had on me.

WHITFIELD: After his mother died, he left Florida State School for the Blind, where he learned to read braille, play piano and memorize music. Learned so well he could compose and arranged melodies in his head. Charles hit the road as a struggling musician.

It was about this time, though, that he picked up a drug habit, a habit he didn't kick until convicted of heroin and marijuana possession 20 years later.

Charles's path to greatness would lead him far from the South to Seattle, Washington. His first real taste of fame would come with the 1955 release of "I've Got a Woman." It was the beginning course of Charles' indelible mark on the face of popular music.

In 1960, Charles won his first Grammy for "Georgia on my Mind." His rendition of the song would later become the state song of Georgia.

The music of Ray Charles defined modern soul, brought jazz and R&B to the main stream, helped country music gain worldwide acceptance.

And along the way, many credited Charles with being instrumental in the invention of rock'n roll. CHARLES: You can bend. I mean you can change. As long as you stay within the context of the song itself so you don't lose the public. You can always do it 50,000 different ways, too.

WHITFIELD: His icon status caught the eye of Pepsi. In Charles the soft drink giant found one of their most memorable pitch men.

In 1986, Charles became one of the original inductees into the Rock'n Roll Hall of Fame.

His rendition of "America the Beautiful" would set the 1984 Republican Convention on fire.

"A Song for You" brought Charles his 12th Grammy in 1994.

The popular entertainer also knew the value of giving back. He lent his considerable talents to the song "We Are the World," raising millions to feed the people starving in Africa.

His life was a lesson in triumph overcoming tragedy. And his audience, the whole world.

CHARLES: For me, my music is my existence. It's just like your breathing. Without your breathing, you're no longer here. Without my music, I feel I'm no longer here.

WHITFIELD: Fredricka Whitfield, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Ray Charles, dead today at the age of 73.

We spent the better part of this week talking about the death of another American legend, Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan was also, we've learned, a big fan of Ray Charles. In fact, in January 1985, Ray Charles was the featured entertainer at President Reagan's second inauguration. The president again asked him to sing "America the Beautiful." And he did.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FRM. AMBASSADOR: ... by lowering expectations. Essentially, it looks to me, based on what we just heard, that the Bush administration failed to achieve either of its objectives at Sea Island. They're not going to get more NATO troops and the president is now admitting that and saying maybe trainers.

And secondly, they're not going to get massive debt relief.

So now, he's going to go on to Dublin for the European Union Summit and Istanbul for the NATO Summit. Let's see what he can do better there because it's, despite what John King obviously and correctly called a "nice, positive mood," jovial even, there was nothing jovial about the message today. WOODRUFF: In terms of NATO, is there that great a disagreement between what the U.S. is seeking at this point, and what the NATO countries are willing to do?

HOLBROOKE: President Bush and his senior team has said repeatedly that they want more NATO troops. Today President Bush said he's not going to get NATO troops so he doesn't need them. Any viewer can read that for what it is, a significant disappointment, against expectations. Now they have got till Istanbul to try to do better. I don't see how anyone can call what we just saw a success and I think the White House probably knows that.

WOODRUFF: You've obviously been advising John Kerry during his campaign. His position has also been that NATO should provide more troops, has it not?

HOLBROOKE: His position, from the beginning has been that the U.N. and NATO should be brought in early. I believe that had the administration done what Senator Kerry suggested, and done it a year ago, things would have been different. For example, even the French and Germans at the height of the argument with the United States, had offered to send more troops to Afghanistan and make Afghanistan a NATO mission early which would have freed up troops for Iraq and offered to train Iraqis, all that was rejected slowly, belatedly, reluctantly. The administration has moved in that direction but it's been too little too late.

WOODRUFF: Let me ask you about something else. The president was asked about the absence, at least, up until now, of weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological or nuclear. The reporter asked him if he had reached a conclusion. He said, no, that the inspectors were not back yet. How do you read that?

HOLBROOKE: I don't know how to read that, Judy. Obviously, it is to the administration's advantage to let many people think that maybe they'll find weapons of mass destruction later, maybe, you know, that nothing went wrong in the Abu Ghraib camp, that there's a link between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. But they have never come up with evidence on any of these issues. I understand this. We're in a very complicated phase now where it's half policy and half politics. What you're seeing on all of these issues is something designed to reduce the political consequences of unsuccessful policies.

WOODRUFF: Another, another issue the president was asked about, were the stories in the last few days about the Bush administration, at one level or another, appearing to authorize treatment of prisoners, mistreatment of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison and other locations where al Qaeda prisoners were being kept. Today, the president insisted that any interrogations conformed with U.S. law. He said whatever was done, the interrogators were told to act consistent with international treaty obligations. Does that put this to rest?

HOLBROOKE: I don't think so. In fact, yesterday, you reported General Sanchez has effectively allowed the investigation to start looking at him and he's the ground commander in Iraq. Something went wrong. President Bush has admitted it and everyone else has. Now, the only way to reduce the damage to the United States is for the fullest, openest, most transparent possible investigation. This doesn't represent the bulk of American soldiers or the values of America but it did happen on our watch in Iraq. It is causing incredible damage to the United States world-wide. The only way we can reduce that is to have a full investigation. I don't think we ought to prejudge its outcome with comments of the sort you just quoted.

WOODRUFF: And very quick last question. You mentioned the two meetings coming up in Europe. The focus of those is what? I mean, how important are those meetings going to be coming off this G-8 meeting?

HOLBROOKE: I think the Dublin meeting is fairly important and maybe the Europeans will help the Americans on debt relief for Iraq. The Istanbul summit, the NATO summit, is tremendously important. Here we are on the front line state on Iraq's border, the most jeopardized, the country that could well invade northern Iraq if the Kurds go separatist. It is critical that at this meeting the president get NATO to do what he has previously called for and today said is not possible. He's got to get NATO more engaged. Let's see what happens in Istanbul. It's a big, big meeting.

WOODRUFF: Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and currently an adviser to John Kerry. Richard Holbrooke, thank you very much for coming by.

HOLBROOKE: Thanks, Judy.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it. And please stay with us. Our review of the president's news conference on Iraq, the war on terrorism and the G-8 summit will continue. I'm going to be joined by two of the hosts of CNN's "CROSSFIRE" in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back to this special expanded edition of INSIDE POLITICS. President Bush now has wrapped up his work at the G- 8 summit in Sea Island, Georgia. He will now return to Washington to take part in the nation's final farewell to former President Ronald Reagan.

Joining me now are two of the hosts of CNN's "CROSSFIRE," Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson. Gentlemen, it's good to see the both of you. Let's talk about this G-8 summit. The president held a news conference and seemed to say it had gone well. He played down any of the disagreements. He said any disagreements we have had have been mainly between us and the French, and we're working on that. Otherwise he made it seemed like a positive thing. And then I turned around and interviewed Richard Holbrooke, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who is advising John Kerry and he said the administration failed in its two principal objectives. Who's telling the truth -- Paul.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Well, the president being from Texas, I can use Texasism (ph), that LBJ coin, which says you can't shine a cow patty. OK, this thing was not a big success for the president. I think he's fortunate that attention of the world was diverted rightly to President Reagan's passing. The most objective thing he had was to try to win NATO support for more troops and try to get more help from our allies. He failed miserably. And as we thinking about President Reagan, I think back to one of President Reagan's big objectives, to put intermediate nuclear missiles, Persian missiles in Europe. The Europeans hated it. But President Reagan persuaded the French president, Mitterand, to go to Germany and speak on behalf of Reagan's Persian missiles. The French were difficult then but Reagan could lead them. I think the comparison today, President Bush has been utterly unable to be the leader of the free world.

WOODRUFF: Is that a fair comparison?

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": I would say it wasn't simply Europeans that hated Persian missiles, it was also the American left, just to...

BEGALA: Which they were wrong about it. That's 20 years ago. The point is that Reagan was an effective leader...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: You brought it up, I didn't. I would say I think not getting debt relief is a big deal. I do. I think probably Holbrooke was half right. I don't think -- I don't know many people who really expected NATO to commit tens of thousands of troops to northern Iraq. I do think, though, that given the tension between the United States, the Bush administration and some of our allies in Europe, it is sort of good news that there wasn't a shouting match that broke out during the G-8 summit. I don't know. I think it probably did go well by most measures. I don't it's fair to say everyone expected we were going to get NATO troops because I don't everyone did expect that.

BEGALA: But it's the president's job to deliver for the American people on security interest not just to have a nice time and have the food complimented by the French president. It's his job to help get NATO to commit troops. President Clinton got the French to fly more combat air support in Kosovo than any other ally.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: But, actually, he didn't get U.N. approval for Kosovo.

BEGALA: That's right. So what? He advanced America's interests.

CARLSON: Let me just say one thing.

One of the key critiques of the Kerry campaign of the Bush administration is that he has made our allies in Europe dislike us and that in fact, their policies, Bush's and Kerry's, are very similar, as you know, for the future of Iraq. But the reason Bush is bad, they say, is because the Europeans don't like us. So, in fact, by their own measure, it's important, it seems to me, that the French like him. That's kind of the essence of the Kerry campaign. No. I'm watching carefully. It seems to be yes.

BEGALA: It's not like us. It's support us. It's follow our lead. And the president has had a failure of leadership here. He's a very friendly guy. Who doesn't like George W. Bush? He's a nice guy. What's not to like?

CARLSON: A lot of people hate him, actually.

BEGALA: Well, they ought not. He's a lovely man. But they should follow America's leadership and he has failed in that fundamental goal.

WOODRUFF: All right, we are watching live pictures of the president preparing to leave Sea Island, Georgia.

And while we do, let's do a little turn here and talk about the campaign more specifically. It's been on hold since the death of Ronald Reagan last Saturday. Both John Kerry and George W. Bush have stayed back, although they've been running campaign commercials on television. That will continue every single day, except Friday.

Does the passing of Ronald Reagan ultimately change the dynamics of this race, Tucker?

CARLSON: I don't -- I don't know if it does. I don't think it -- I mean, you have heard all these theories about the various public opinion bank shots the week of celebrating the life of Ronald Reagan will cause, that Bush will look lesser by comparison. And it's true, he's not a small government conservative and he's not a terrific communicator.

On the other hand, people liked Reagan because of his ideas, it seems to me, and his sunniness. Bush is pretty sunny. And I think being reminded that conservative ideas are pretty popular, I don't think that can hurt Bush. I just don't. As counterintuitive and as appealing as some of the theories on the other side may be, I think it helps.

BEGALA: It hasn't helped at all. It has helped in that it has overshadowed his really enormous failure on the world stage in Savannah, Georgia. But short of that...

WOODRUFF: You really believe it's completely overshadowed? Well...

BEGALA: Oh, yes. What can -- what -- who's going to say, gee, there was Ronald Reagan, right? So now he passed away. And God bless him. And, really, your heart goes out of course to Mrs. Reagan. But that doesn't get any votes for George W. Bush.

And in fact he ain't no Ronald Reagan. He's a lovely man in many ways, but he's not a larger-than-life figure. And he's certainly not successful in being the leader of the free world. And the fact that he stumbles so badly on the very stage where Ronald Reagan excelled just makes him look bad.

WOODRUFF: Tucker, you going to let that lie there?

CARLSON: I think it's self-evidently ludicrous and just campaign propaganda. No offense or anything.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Do you think, four months from now, anybody is going to cast a vote because Ronald Reagan died?

CARLSON: I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I don't think, in any way, people are going to vote for George W. Bush because of Ronald Reagan or his death.

I'm merely saying I don't think that the festivities or the remembrances over the last week hurt Bush. And, in fact, people are remembering what they liked about Ronald Reagan. And they liked his conservatism. And Bush is more conservative than Kerry. Therefore, in some small way, I think it helps Bush. It doesn't hurt him.

WOODRUFF: Ronald Reagan. There is a movement afoot not only to name -- to put his picture on the $10 bill, the $20 and the dime. Tucker, there's a move to change the name of the Pentagon.

CARLSON: Well, how about a move to get rid of the...

WOODRUFF: Is that a good idea?

CARLSON: How about a move to get rid of the Labor Department or the Energy Department, or, say, the Education Department? Those would all be moves, I think, undertaken....

WOODRUFF: To get rid of. You're not talking about renaming. We're talking about renaming.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: And how about getting rid of the DMV and rolling back seat belt laws and letting people smoke in restaurants if they want to?

BEGALA: Which Reagan passed.

CARLSON: Right. But I'm just saying, moves in the spirit of freedom, I think those would be marvelous ways to remember the legacy.

WOODRUFF: Get rid of seat belt laws to remember -- a way to remember Ronald Reagan.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Amen, right, or anything that increases personal freedom. I mean, let's stop naming and start doing.

WOODRUFF: But not renaming the Pentagon? CARLSON: I don't know. Let's get rid of the Labor Department first. That's my view.

BEGALA: See, that is at least a principled conservative view.

You ask -- the chairman of the Republican Party famously went up to New Hampshire a couple of months ago. "The Manchester Union Leader," a very conservative paper, excoriated him because he refused to name even one, even one, out of 10,000 federal programs that the Republicans want to shut down. Why?

Because they talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. And I think that's why, in fact, President Bush does not look very good in the passing of Ronald Reagan, because he's not delivering on anything Reagan's people actually care about.

WOODRUFF: Last quick thing. A "Los Angeles Times"' poll today has John Kerry seven points ahead. Now, in some battleground states, George Bush is holding his own.

Is this just a blip on the screen? Does it mean anything, Tucker?

CARLSON: I mean, by itself, I don't think that -- and I think Paul would agree -- I don't think the head-to-heads are terribly significant this far out. They will be in October, obviously.

But, over time, if every week for the next 10 weeks, John Kerry is up, yes, it means something. Of course it does.

BEGALA: What means more is -- and Tucker is right. The head-to- head doesn't matter at all this far away from the election.

But what I track is this question of, are we moving in the right direction? And "The L.A. Times" poll asked it a slightly different way. And they get almost I think over -- almost 60 percent, over 55 percent, saying that we need to go off on a very fundamentally different direction. That can never be good for an incumbent president.

When Ronald Reagan stood for reelection, 55 percent or more said the country was going in the right direction. And so he was reelected overwhelmingly. Same with Bill Clinton. President Bush is more in line with where his father and Jimmy Carter were, where the country is going in the wrong direction in the eyes of voters. He's going to lose.

WOODRUFF: We're going to leave it there. Tucker Carlson, Paul Begala, this is your time slot. We are really glad to have you here.

CARLSON: Well, it's wonderful to be with you.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... our time slot.

WOODRUFF: You always say that. We know you don't mean it. But thanks anyway.

CARLSON: Thank you.

BEGALA: Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: All right, great to see you.

The Democratic National Convention is just six weeks away, a little more than that. Coming up, why a federal judge is ordering U.S. Marshals to the convention site now. Also on this expanded edition of INSIDE POLITICS, memories of Ronald Reagan. I'll talk with his former adviser and campaign aide Lyn Nofziger.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: In Boston, U.S. Marshals are to be deployed at the FleetCenter, site of next month's Democratic Convention, and right now the scene of a protest by picketing police officers.

Our Dan Lothian has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): As union members with the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association protest stalled contract talks outside the FleetCenter, a federal judge is sending in U.S. Marshals. The reason, so that construction crews and supplies needed to prepare for next month's Democratic National Convention can enter the facility without disruption.

ANTHONY DICHIO, U.S. MARSHAL: At any of the entrances, they will not be walking across.

LOTHIAN: Under pressure, Mayor Tom Menino had gone to court for help. He got it.

MERITA HOPKINS, COUNSEL, CITY OF BOSTON: The judge was unequivocal in saying, you need to get out of the way, no blockage.

LOTHIAN: Police officers and other unions which had been granted permission by the court for an informational protest had also been blocking trucks and strongly discouraging work crews from entering the site, but insist they were within the court's order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We represent professional people. Our conduct has been professional to this point.

LOTHIAN: Without conceding any wrongdoing, a lawyer for the Patrolmen's Association vowed to follow the rules.

THOMAS DRECHSLER, ATTORNEY FOR POLICE UNION: To the extent the judge has refined the order, my clients are prepared to comply with it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Mayor Menino has been under pressure from Democratic leaders, who want him to get the union situation settled. With less than seven weeks to go before the convention, the mayor says that he does have some concerns about delays, but says they did have some wiggle room.

As for union members, the city's police commissioner laid down the law today, saying anyone who violates the order will be arrested -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: The days are counting down. They have got to get that worked out.

LOTHIAN: That's right.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dan Lothian, thank you very much.

Well, checking the headlines now in our "Campaign News Daily," a new poll finds John Kerry and George W. Bush locked in a tight battle in the showdown state of New Hampshire. The America Research Group survey gives both candidates 47 percent. With independent Ralph Nader in the race, they are tied with 46 percent, Nader receiving 2 percent.

Nader has turned in his signature petitions to get his name on Arizona's presidential ballot. The Nader campaign reports that it has turned in more than 21,000 signatures, far more than the almost 15,000 names required. Nader earlier was endorsed by the Reform Party, which could give him access to the ballot in seven states, including Florida and Michigan.

Still to come on this expanded edition of INSIDE POLITICS, we'll take you outside the U.S. Capitol, where thousands of people are still hoping for a glimpse of President Reagan's casket. Also, I'll talk to two of his former advisers, Lyn Nofziger and James Brady, struck down the same day of the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We're taking you live to the Rotunda of the United States Capitol, where a very familiar face, the man who led the Soviet Union during Ronald Reagan's presidency, Mikhail Gorbachev, is standing there to pay his respects to the man he faced off in the Cold War.

It was Mikhail Gorbachev who brought reform to the Soviet Union, who led to the collapse of communism and to the Soviet Union. Today, Mikhail Gorbachev stands 16 years later representing Russia -- Mikhail Gorbachev, whose place in history forever tied to Ronald Reagan.

Well, outside the United States Capitol, CNN's Sean Callebs is standing by. He's been talking to some of the thousands of people waiting in line to get in.

Sean, what is it like?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, it's actually kind of amazing to watch this.

The line simply gets longer and longer now, as the work day here in Washington, D.C., comes to an end. A lot of people are apparently showing up here. We're seeing people in their business suits. We're seeing people military uniform. We're seeing tourists. We're seeing people just trying to adjust to what is a very warm afternoon here in Washington, D.C.

And all these people aware that they are going to have to be competing with the dignitaries like Mikhail Gorbachev in the Rotunda right now. People patiently waiting here. We are going to pan over. From where you're looking right now, these people who have been waiting in line for a couple of hours still have about a three-hour wait to snake their way along up to the reflecting poll, then up to the nation's Capitol and into the Rotunda.

Despite the weather out here today, the weather conditions, everybody seemed to hold up relatively well. There have been a number of medical officials out here throughout the day doing what they can to make people comfortable. There's plenty of water on hand. There is sunblock. And you can see umbrellas really dotting the landscape out here, doing what they can to create their own shade.

Many people saying that they came here today to say a solemn goodbye to former President Reagan, many others because it's a piece of history. They want to be here to tell either their children or just relate what they feel on this day -- Judy, back to you.

WOODRUFF: Sean, tell us a little bit more about these people, ages, where they're from, anything you've been able to pick up about them.

CALLEBS: Without question.

We've seen infants. I saw a child that was just seven weeks old, ironically, from somebody I worked with in South Carolina about 15 years ago. And we're seeing people that are struggling through on walkers. So we're seeing really people that cut across a wide spectrum.

WOODRUFF: Sean Callebs, outside the Capitol, thank you very much.

Well, Ronald Reagan, as we know, ran for the White House three times. He lost the nomination to Gerald Ford in 1976. Then he was elected in 1980 and '84.

A fixture during those campaigns, as well as during his 1966 first race for governor of California was Lyn Nofziger.

I spoke with Nofziger a little while ago. And I asked his thoughts on the turnout to honor Ronald Reagan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LYN NOFZIGER, FORMER REAGAN ADVISER: No, you don't really look forward to this kind of moment, if you're talking about the ceremony and so forth.

But, you know, it's interesting that he was such a magnetic figure, if you will, that I'm sure what's happening here is really exceeding everybody's expectations, the number of people out and the kind of enduring reception that he's had.

WOODRUFF: You first met him -- we talked about this the other day -- in 1965.

NOFZIGER: Right.

WOODRUFF: And you also said that you commented to somebody, this man could be president one day.

NOFZIGER: Well, that was -- you had to wait until 1966 before I said that.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: It took you a whole year to figure it out. What in the world made you -- gave you that idea?

NOFZIGER: You know, there was something between him and the people that he was campaigning to. And it's hard to put a finger on it.

And he said himself that the reason people liked him is because they considered him one of them. But it was more than that. He talked to them and there was something believable about him, almost regardless what he said. And there was, as I say, something just there between him and the people that I -- and I had been a political reporter for a number of years.

WOODRUFF: Right.

NOFZIGER: And I had never sensed this before.

WOODRUFF: I want to ask you about a specific moment in his life, in his career, 1980 convention. You were trying to work out a deal so that Gerald Ford would be his running mate. How close did that come to being reality?

NOFZIGER: Much too close, Judy. It would have been a terrible disaster.

But we had been -- our polling had showed there were three people who would help Reagan in the campaign. And one of them was Gerald Ford. And so we started negotiating with him. And, actually, Ford wanted more say than a vice president should have. And, of course, as we looked at it afterward, there would have been the great thought that Reagan didn't think that he was competent to be president, so he had gone and gotten Gerald Ford.

So it was a good thing for that we finally -- both Ford and Reagan decided almost simultaneously rooms apart that this was the wrong thing to do. WOODRUFF: But then Ronald Reagan turned to George W. Bush, a man...

NOFZIGER: Yes, he was taller than Howard Baker.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: A man he didn't know that well at the time. Were they friends?

NOFZIGER: No, they were not. But you don't have to be friends with the person you pick to be vice president. You pick a person to be -- for your running mate who you think will help you get elected.

WOODRUFF: And their relationship after that?

NOFZIGER: Very good.

Reagan is an includer, was an includer. He was always a person who wanted to bring people in. And among the very first things he said to George Bush was, first of all, you will be part of this campaign. We'll campaign as a team. And then, when they were elected, he said, if there's ever a meeting I'm in, you can be in it if you want to be in it. And he said, we'll have lunch together once a week. In other words, he moved very strongly to make George Bush an integral part of his team.

WOODRUFF: And he was saying this to someone who had run against him.

NOFZIGER: Oh, sure.

WOODRUFF: For president.

NOFZIGER: But Reagan never held grudges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Lyn Nofziger, who first went to work for Ronald Reagan in 1965.

Coming up, someone else who used to work closely with President Reagan; 23 years ago, James Brady was the president's press secretary. But the events of a March afternoon would change his life forever. My interview with James Brady and his wife, Sarah, in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: As we continue to look back at the life and the presidency of Ronald Reagan, I spoke a short time ago with Ronald Reagan's first White House press secretary, Jim Brady and his wife, Sarah. Jim Brady, of course, was wounded in the assassination attempt on President Reagan back in 1981.

Just about an hour ago, I spoke with Jim and Sarah Brady.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: What are you feeling this week about...

JAMES BRADY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Sadness.

WOODRUFF: About this man that you served.

J. BRADY: Yes. Yes. And hopefully served well.

WOODRUFF: And, Sarah, what are you thinking and feeling?

SARAH BRADY, WIFE OF JAMES BRADY: A lot of memories coming back, and just a reminder of the respect and love that we had -- had and have had all these years for him.

WOODRUFF: Have you had a special bond, in a way, with the Reagans because of the fact, of course, you both were shot the same day?

(CROSSTALK)

J. BRADY: Yes.

S. BRADY: And they both took such care to take care of -- to watch out for us and to include us all these years.

WOODRUFF: After President Reagan was getting better, wounded and getting better, did they come and did he check on you?

J. BRADY: Oh, yes. Yes, he did, as -- as a matter of fact, both of them did.

S. BRADY: I remember the jelly beans he brought you in the hospital.

J. BRADY: Yes. Because he knows, at the Cabinet meeting, I'd bring the crystal jar that Mayor Bradley from Los Angeles gave me, put my paw in them, and then throw them in my mouth.

WOODRUFF: Jelly beans were clearly one of the trademarks of the Reagan White House.

Sarah Brady, this had to be the worst day of your life, the day that the two of them were shot. But you've gone on. It's 22, 23 years ago.

S. BRADY: Twenty-three.

WOODRUFF: What about your connections with the Reagans since then and with President Reagan?

S. BRADY: They have -- up until the last -- 10 years ago, when the president got Alzheimer's, he never missed a birthday of Jim's, even after they left office.

We were out. We visited with them after they went back to California in their home in Bel Air just about six months before the Alzheimer's announcement. And we were with them out there on several occasions. They've just been marvelous to us, have always -- there's just a little special something there. And they -- I don't think -- we certainly hope they never felt like they had to, but there was just a warmth. But, then, they're warm, wonderful people, wonderful people.

WOODRUFF: I want to ask you about today. Both of you were interviewed on "The Today Show" this morning. And you said something about President Reagan's views on the Brady law, gun control and about the assault weapons ban. The National Rifle Association has come forward today and given chapter and verse on how President Reagan was for gun rights.

S. BRADY: Well, it's very strange, but he certainly came out publicly for both the Brady Bill and the assault weapon ban and made telephone calls on the day of the assault weapon ban, 10 phone calls that day, made a public statement on behalf of the Brady law.

We are certainly -- and I'm sure he felt the same way -- not for banning or taking away people's rights, but for commonsense measures. And the president felt the same way.

WOODRUFF: Jim, do you think -- Brady -- do you think President Reagan changed his mind about gun control?

J. BRADY: No, he was there all along.

S. BRADY: He had signed a bill in California. And, you know, we have got an -- the assault weapon ban that President Reagan worked for and made those 10 swing phone calls for is up for renewal this year. And we're certainly hoping we get that through. We have got a lot of work to do.

WOODRUFF: What do you think Ronald Reagan's principal legacy will be? There's been so much talk about it this week. What do you feel?

J. BRADY: I've never seen a man with as much optimism contained in -- first of all, decent and an optimist.

I can remember when he said he was going to put the Soviet Union out of business. And they said, don't do that. You can't do it. He said, yes, I can, because I believe I can. And he did it.

WOODRUFF: Extraordinary.

Jim Brady, Sarah Brady.

Jim Brady, somebody who we thought we had lost you that day, but here you are 23 years later. You're still with us.

J. BRADY: Yes, I kind of thought that I'd lost me that day also.

WOODRUFF: We're glad you're here.

S. BRADY: We are here.

WOODRUFF: We're really glad you're here.

J. BRADY: I'm glad I'm here also.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Jim and Sarah Brady, two very courageous people remembering Ronald Reagan.

INSIDE POLITICS will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: And that's it for this special edition of INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Judy Woodruff.

Be sure to tune in to CNN's coverage tomorrow of the state funeral of President Ronald Reagan. It all starts tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. I'll be reporting from the National Cathedral.

Have a good night. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired June 10, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Are memories of Ronald Reagan affecting voters' attitudes about the Bush-Kerry race? A new poll raises eyebrows and some controversy.

Two men who worked closely with the great communicator look back on their years with the Reagans, former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Michael Deaver and former Press Secretary James Brady, who was wounded in the attempt to assassinate the president.

Plus, a familiar subject keeps coming up at the G-8 Summit.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Iraqi people need help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Now, a special edition of JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS, live from Washington

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us.

As the G-8 Summit comes to a close in Georgia and President Bush prepares for a news conference just about an hour from now, or maybe less, the focus here in Washington remains on the ceremonies honoring the life of Ronald Reagan.

Thousands of mourners continue to endure hours-long waits in the summer heat to come into the Capitol Rotunda for their chance to view the casket of the late president. Mr. Reagan's body will lie in state for a total of 34 hours, leading up to tomorrow's state funeral. President Bush and first lady Laura Bush are expected to visit the Rotunda, as well as meet with Nancy Reagan when they return to Washington this evening. Before leaving Georgia, however, Mr. Bush plans to meet with reporters.

And for a preview, let's turn to CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash. She's in Savannah.

Hi, Dana Bash.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy.

And the president will likely be talking about what he did here over the past several days talking to world leaders. And, of course, there have been a lot of official issues on the docket, like Africa, AIDS in Africa, like promoting democracy in the Middle East. But, certainly, the overarching issue was Iraq.

And the president had a big political victory going into this summit, the first day, a U.N. resolution unanimously voting to support the political process moving forward in Iraq. That is something that his aides were quite happy about, doing a lot of interviews about, making themselves available, as we discussed over the past couple of days.

And Mr. Bush was able to do here what he himself said he could never have imagined just a year and half ago. And that is sit down with the Iraqi interim president. That was a meeting that was dripping with symbolism, as the president was trying to make the case that Iraq is democratic and certainly moving towards free elections, he hopes, there.

But, of course, the unofficial theme here is a new spirit of unity, particularly between leaders who disagree vehemently over whether or not it was right to go to war in Iraq. And it has become clear, however, over the past 24 hours or so that, despite the fact that they want to talk about unity, when you get down to the details, the divide quickly emerges.

For example, just a few hours after President Bush said that he thought it might be a good idea to get NATO more involved in Iraq, Jacques Chirac, the French president, came out and poured cold water on the idea. He said that that is not a good idea, that that is not NATO's role. And the two men actually met this morning. They talked about the issue, they said. And they came out and told reporters that they simply would continue to consult on the issue.

And also, President Bush has yet to get any tangible pledges of help from any of these leaders, a pledge for troops on the ground, any pledge for new financial aid, even a pledge to relieve Iraq of some of its debt. So, certainly, there is a lot of talk about being united. But when you get down to the nitty-gritty, there are certainly some divides that are being shown.

One thing that the White House is saying that they are quite happy about is the fact that they were able to get members of the G-8 and also Mideast leaders, Arab leaders that they invited here, to sign on to a new initiative that they hope will promote democracy, entrepreneurship, literacy in the Mideast. That is something that they've been working for months for -- unclear how much of an impact this is going to have. But, certainly, as one White House official said, at least it's a start -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And, Dana, when the president does get back to Washington tonight, he's going to be paying his respects at the Capitol for President Reagan. Tell us about the plans.

BASH: Well, tonight is a chance for President Bush and Mrs. Bush to pay their personal respects to President Reagan. As soon as he arrives in Washington, he will go straight to the Capitol, to the Rotunda. And the two will pay tribute to President Reagan. And they will be among the many dignitaries that of course we saw going into the Rotunda to do so today.

Then they will go pay a condolence call to Nancy Reagan, have a personal meeting with her. And, of course, Mr. Bush will give a eulogy tomorrow morning at the National Cathedral -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dana Bash, following all the events at the G-8 Summit, thank you very much.

Well, now turning to politics and the race for the White House, the campaigns have been pretty much on hold this week, with the exception of television ads. John Kerry is here in Washington today, but he has no public events scheduled.

A new national poll, meanwhile, shows Kerry leading the president by seven points. "The Los Angeles Times" survey gives Kerry 51 percent and Bush 44 percent. With Ralph Nader in the race, Kerry leads by six points. A Bush campaign spokesman today questioned the poll's reliability and implied the poll's sample was tilted toward Democratic voters. It is worth noting, however, that a Gallup survey that we reported earlier this week showed Kerry leading Bush by six points.

Well, CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times" wrote about the poll results in today's newspaper. He joins me here in Washington.

Ron, first of all, what is important about this poll? What do you see in there that we should take note of?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, to me, the horse race is going to vary month by month, maybe week by week, until November.

The history is, when we have a president who is around 50 percent in approval, we have very volatile races, with a lot of moving parts in the public. What's significant about this poll to me is a couple things. The most significant thing is the evidence of a growing desire for change. That to me is the real threat to President Bush.

We had nearly three-fifths of the country saying that America is off on the wrong track. And we had a solid 56 percent majority saying that we should pursue a new direction, a new course, rather than the policies President Bush is pursuing. Those are the kinds of trends.

It also shows that John Kerry still has a lot of work to do to really make an impression on the American public. Even though he does well on one critical variable, is he ready to be commander in chief, about 60 percent the people say yes, only about half say they know enough about his domestic policy to have a clear impression and even fewer about his foreign policy. So he clearly he has some work to do, but the real challenge to President Bush is a growing desire for change.

WOODRUFF: What about the complaint from the Bush people? Ron, among other things, they were calling this poll -- quote -- "a mess" and they were saying it relied too much on Democratic voters. BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, there is a methodological disagreement that is almost a theological disagreement.

The question is, what is the most accurate snapshot of the electorate at any time? And I will say to you, any one poll at any time has to be compared against everything else that is out there, because there is certainly no shortage of polling. They argue that the poll should be adjusted to sort of a predetermined sense of how the electorate divides between Republicans, Democrats and independents.

Our view, and I believe the Gallup view also, is that that is a moving variable and that what you receive in the poll is a reflection of actual changes. And so that really is the argument between -- that the Bush people are raising. I think viewers should look at any one poll within the context of everything else that's out there. And there's no single monopoly on the truth.

WOODRUFF: Now, the poll, Ron, also looked at specific battleground states. And there seems to be some variance with the national numbers. Talk about that.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

Well, first of all, we looked at three states, in addition to looking at the results nationally, Ohio and Missouri, which President Bush won last time, but are top target for Democrats, and Wisconsin, which Al Gore won and is now a top target for the Republicans.

In all of these states, President Bush is in a stronger position. The key -- the clear difference is that there is a campaign going on in these states to a much greater degree than there is for most Americans in the broad national sample. Over $40 million, Judy, has already been spent in television in these three states. And, in them, John Kerry's image is not as positive as it nationally. And President Bush has a stronger advantage than he does nationally when voters are asked who would be a stronger leader.

And that to me is probably the critical variable that moves, that tilts these states a little bit. Missouri, he has a lead. Ohio and Wisconsin are pretty much dead heats.

WOODRUFF: But, still, for some looking at this, Ron, that's a contradiction. You have got the president doing better in some important key states, but then you've got John Kerry doing better nationally. It's a struggle to understand that.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: First of all, every state has an independent relationship to the national number. Ohio and Missouri tend to run more Republican than the national average. For example, Bush ran ahead of his results in both states in 2000.

Wisconsin is a state that is closer to the national average, but it has been problematic for Kerry this year. And it is reflective I think of Bush's continuing strength, one thing that is clear even in the national poll, among culturally conservative voters, gun owners, rural families, married couples, people who go to church regularly. Those kind of voters are very strong for him. And that is helping him in a number of these Midwestern battlegrounds.

WOODRUFF: But just quickly to sum up, something in this poll both for John Kerry to worry about and for George Bush to worry about. What would that be?

BROWNSTEIN: George Bush, the clear worry is a desire to change, the wrong-track numbers, the sense that we need a new direction in policy. For Kerry, I think the biggest worry is the sign that one of the Bush core arguments is penetrating. By 2-1 in the national surveys, people said he was more likely to flip-flop on issues than President Bush is.

The flip side of the flip-flop charge, though, is that people are more likely to see Bush as arrogant or stubborn. That may be a central point of argument between them through the fall. What is the proper mode of leadership? Is it adjusting or is it setting a course and sticking to it?

WOODRUFF: A lot of fertile ground to plow here.

Ron Brownstein, thanks very much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Thanks for coming by.

Well, leaders around the world are gathering here in Washington for Ronald Reagan's funeral. Just ahead, we'll have details of that, plus an emotional interview with former Reagan aide Michael Deaver. And we'll take you live to Capitol Hill, where thousands of people, including many VIPs, are paying their respects to the late president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: A truly impressive roster of current and former world leaders will be attending Ronald Reagan's funeral here in Washington tomorrow, among them, former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, former Polish President Lech Walesa, and the former prime ministers of Britain and Canada, Margaret Thatcher and Brian Mulroney. They will both deliver eulogies, along with President Bush and his father, the first President Bush.

In all, more than two dozen current and former heads of state will attend the service at the National Cathedral.

Just a few hours ago, I spoke with Michael Deaver, who was one of the five honorary pallbearers for President Reagan. He was a longtime adviser, friend and deputy chief of staff from 1981 to 1985.

I started by asking him if, in all the whirlwind of activities, he's had time for personal thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL DEAVER, FORMER REAGAN DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: Yes. Yes.

And it -- you know, I mean, it's amazing, the emotion that sort of comes when you've known this was going to happen, 93 years old. You haven't seen him for a long time. And yet, it still just hits you like -- I just miss him.

WOODRUFF: Is there any memory of him that keeps coming back to you, that you keep...

DEAVER: No.

It's just a general impression of this kind, decent, most wonderful person I ever knew. It just -- you know, it's this general impression. And I think it's the same impression that you see with the people who were standing along the street yesterday and who have been out to California and are now going through the Capitol.

It's just, generally, here was an authentic person, for God sakes. Out of all of this we have in America today, here was a real guy.

WOODRUFF: In other words, there was no other private Ronald Reagan?

DEAVER: Never. Never.

WOODRUFF: You're saying he was the same to you and other close people.

DEAVER: Everybody always asks me, what's he really like?

I say, he's really like what you see. There was no behind the curtain. There was no, I'll be this way with one person and that with another. It was always the same. And it was always the same for 35 years. Can you say about anybody you know, particularly when it comes to this town? I can't.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: You've been with Nancy Reagan. How is she doing?

DEAVER: Well, you know, she looks frail when you see her on television, but her heart is strong.

And she's going to get through this. And I don't know how. I don't know how she does it. I didn't know how she did it for the last 10 years, frankly. But, you know, that's their life. That's been her priority. It still is.

WOODRUFF: What's it been like for her the last few years?

DEAVER: Well, I think it's been lonely and sad and tough. It's -- I can't really imagine what it's like to have the person. And, for all of us, we're sort of mortals. That love affair was -- I'd never seen anything like it, ever. And you see that now. You see it, really see it, in the way she touches, in the way she is with him still.

WOODRUFF: Was she ready for this, do you think?

DEAVER: I don't think she was ever ready. Who can be ready? It's -- at least he was there, so -- in some way. Now it's really final. And I think that's tough.

WOODRUFF: How do you think she is going to do going forward? What do you see her role going forward?

DEAVER: I don't know.

I just assume that she's going to do what she's always done. And that is defend him, support the legacy, be the champion, you know. Until her last breath, she's going to be out there. I always said about Nancy, if Ronald Reagan owned a shoe store like his dad, she'd have been pushing shoes.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAVER: And that's what it's going to be.

WOODRUFF: You had a large hand, I gather, in planning some of these activities, the events surrounding the funeral this week.

DEAVER: Well, there were...

WOODRUFF: Is it...

DEAVER: Well -- go ahead. Go ahead.

I think there were a lot -- you know, first of all, this is a protocol that's been in existence for over 100 years. There are things the family can put in. But, basically, it's a protocol that had been for 10 presidents.

WOODRUFF: But not every president has chosen this.

DEAVER: No. No, that's right.

WOODRUFF: Is it unfolding the way you thought it would?

DEAVER: Better. Better.

And, you know, what's amazed me, in, you know, participating yesterday at Andrews, is the precision. I mean, when we have an inaugural every four years, we have 90 days to put it together. These guys have had four days to put together this massive tribute and military operation. And to me -- and no blips, no flaws, everything respectful. It's just stunning.

WOODRUFF: It was an -- it was an extraordinary day yesterday. The whole week has been.

Surprised at the outpouring of affection and admiration?

DEAVER: No. I mean, I think we've seen it coming.

WOODRUFF: In terms of the sheer numbers of people?

DEAVER: No, not to me. I mean, I think we've seen that coming over the years, the growing love for him and for her that's grown, watching the two of them deal with this Alzheimer's.

And so many people who have to deal with it themselves out there today and -- or illnesses like it. I couldn't help it. Yesterday, when she got out of the car on Constitution Avenue, and there was sort of a stillness, and then this applause sort of grew and grew and grew. Now, I think -- he always said there was a reason for everything. We're being able to see Nancy the way he saw her now, as this great strength of his life. And I think the American people are seeing that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Michael Deaver will be flying with Nancy Reagan on the plane back to California with the body of President Reagan. He will be with the family through the burial.

Well, congressional staffers have their own line to view President Reagan's coffin in the Capitol Rotunda. But, at times, they, too, have had a long wait. Coming up, a look at a day that has been anything but normal on Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It has been a day of long lines and long waits on Capitol Hill, even for members of congressional staffs.

Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry joins me now with more on today's mood on the Hill.

Hello, Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good day, Judy.

I just went through the Rotunda myself. It's quite moving to see the casket up close. There was a count by the Capitol Police that 30,000 people have already gone past that casket. They're rechecking the numbers right now, so that's not an official count. That was just from 9:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m., the overnight numbers.

Then, there is a separate line, as you mentioned, for congressional staff, thousands of people in that line. At one point, the wait was two hours just for congressional staff alone. So that boosts the numbers even more, while obviously expecting thousands more throughout the afternoon and this evening overnight into tomorrow morning as well. We've also seen many, many dignitaries come through. Senator Majority Leader Bill Frist earlier today escorted in the new Iraqi president, Ghazi al-Yawar, history in the making right before our eyes. Former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole also came through, former presidential candidate, obviously knew Ronald Reagan well.

Sandra Day O'Connor, the first female Supreme Court justice, obviously appointed by Ronald Reagan, she came through. Prince Charles, we're expecting him later this evening, plenty of dignitaries. So it's just been a stream of people coming through, motorcades behind us. And while there is a lot of sadness, you hear a lot of people also saying that they've been quite moved and that's why they're here. They want to show their respect for former President Reagan.

And one final note. We mentioned yesterday that a lot of Republicans have come forward with all kinds of ideas, ways to honor former President Reagan. Now Senator Majority Leader Bill Frist is saying that he is going to put together -- he has already put together a working group that is going to sift through all these different ideas and try to figure out what is the best way in fact to honor President Reagan -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Ed Henry, reporting from the Capitol. And, as Ed said, he himself was able to go through the Rotunda just a short time ago. Ed, thank you very much.

We want to let all of you know that we've just learned that President Bush's news conference at the conclusion of the G-8 Summit will begin in just a few minutes. That's about a half hour earlier than we had been told. But CNN will carry that live, just as soon as it gets under way, the G-8 Summit concluding there in Sea Island, Georgia.

Back here in Washington, problems on a plane carrying Kentucky's governor triggered an evacuation of the U.S. Capitol before yesterday's arrival of President Reagan's casket. The problem with the plane's transponder apparently prevented air traffic controllers from tracking the plane.

But we want to check all that now with homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve, who has been looking into all this.

And I have to say, Jeanne, I was one of those who was told by the police to run as fast as I could to get away from the Capitol. They were serious while they thought this was serious.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. You know better certainly than I do what was going on up there and just how short a hair-trigger they were up there.

What we've been trying to do is piece together what was happening on the ground with what was happening up in the air. And here's the timeline that we've been able to put together at this point in time. The aircraft carrying Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher took off from Cincinnati at about 2:45 local time, having filed all the necessary paperwork and gotten a waiver to land at Reagan National Airplane.

Shortly after takeoff, the governor's office said, the plane developed problems with its transponder, a device which transmits identifying information. Before the flight was even halfway to Washington, the pilot told air traffic controllers about his transponder problems. They advised him to proceed to Reagan National.

Then they told him to go to Dulles, then revised their instructions and told him again to go on to National. According to the governor's press secretary, the pilot was in constant communication with controllers, doing exactly what the controllers told him to do. But, at approximately 4:24, federal officials say, when the plane made a hard right turn into the air defense zone around Washington, D.C., it became a target of interest -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: We are going to have to interrupt. My apologies.

MESERVE: OK.

WOODRUFF: But I'm told that President Bush has just stepped up to the lectern at Sea Island to talk about the conclusion of the G-8 Summit.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

WOODRUFF: President George W. Bush finishing up a news conference after the G8 Summit in Sea Island, Georgia. Walking away with Mrs. Bush.

The news he made, among other things, the president was asked about the interrogation methods of terrorism suspects. The president in the face of new evidence that there were memos sent from the attorney general to the Defense Department saying that the -- using torture or methods akin to torture was acceptable.

The president said we only -- those interrogators, he said, had to abide by the law. And beyond that, when he was asked about NATO and bringing other countries in from NATO, to support the U.S. efforts in Iraq he said he doesn't really expect other countries to provide troops. He said that he does, though, expect them to help with training.

CNN's senior White House correspondent John King is with us now. John, the president certainly had serious comments to make but he also seemed to be in a particularly jovial mood.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Judy, often, you can tell from the start when the president doesn't exactly enjoy being part of these press conferences. Clearly today, very upbeat spirits.

You noted one area, when asked about the torture memos, the president was a bit tense about that. Also refused to talk at all about the vice president's meeting with the prosecutors in the CIA leaks investigation. Mr. Bush brushing off questions there. But otherwise he was in quite upbeat spirits. There is a difference with France right now. The president wants NATO to step in, be much more aggressive in helping to train Iraqi troops and security forces. President Jacques Chirac hasn't said no but he has said he doesn't think that's the right approach.

Mr. Bush, though, saying he's willing to work with Mr. Chirac. He'll get there. At one point, joking when asked how do they resolve these policy differences. Saying they go off into corners of the room and face the wall suggesting perhaps a duel or some sort of an argument.

The president clearly in a upbeat mood here, Judy. He believes this summit helped him allay the concerns that he refuses to business with other world leaders. That has been a problem for him around the world. There's also, of course, it's been an issue the presidential campaign. Senator John Kerry saying this president has fundamentally mismanaged traditional alliances. Mr. Bush hoping this meeting here in Sea Island helps rebut Senator Kerry's claim and perhaps help boost his image in the world just a bit.

WOODRUFF: John, it was interesting. The president said for all this talk about the U.S. and differences in Europe, he said the focus of the disagreements is the U.S. and France. And then he was separately asked about that gun that belonged to Saddam Hussein, asked if he would give it back to the Iraqis. And he basically said no.

KING: He said it was the property of the United States government. That gun, that pistol is now on a plaque in the president's private study just off the Oval Office. He noted it was the Delta Team that captured Saddam Hussein that brought that it to him.

Perhaps if the Iraqis asked for it they would get it back. But the president seems pretty reluctant to part with that souvenir, Judy.

The president in a very upbeat mood. I tried to asked him if he's upset at Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Kuwait for not coming here. The Middle East initiative is so important to him. We do know privately the president is not happy that they didn't send representatives. Publicly, he said he understands their nervousness. The president clearly tried to put the best face on this summit as he moves forward.

WOODRUFF: Even commented on Jacques Chirac's complimenting the food.

KING: They say he likes the cheeseburgers, Judy. We don't know if he had freedom fries.

WOODRUFF: OK. John King reporting from the G8 summit. Thank you, John. We'll see you back in Washington tonight.

Well as the United States mourns the death of former President Ronald Reagan, there is now word this afternoon that an American music legend is dead. Singer Ray Charles died this morning of complications of liver disease at his home in Beverly Hills. He was 73 years old. In a career that spanned multiple decades, included 12 Grammy awards, Ray Charles had hits in jazz, blues, big band and even country music.

Blind since the age of 7 and an orphan since 15, Charles made a name for himself with such hits as "Hit the Road, Jack" and "Georgia on my Mind."

CNN's Fredricka Whitfield has more on the life and amazing musical career of Ray Charles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Ray Charles' life was a rags to riches story, told with lyrics and melodies liberally laced with soul.

Born Ray Charles Robinson on September 23, 1930 to Aretha and Bailey Robinson in rural Albany, Georgia. The family was desperately poor. By the time he was 7 years old, glaucoma was robbed Charles of his sight. But before he went blind he saw his little brother drown.

Charles credits his mother with helping him overcome blindness and become independent.

RAY CHARLES, AMERICAN MUSIC LEGEND: She was watching me go blind. You know, she knew I was going to lose my sight. But her thing was you still got that brain. You still can think. And there are two ways to do everything. You just got to figure out which one is good for you. That was the influence my mom had on me.

WHITFIELD: After his mother died, he left Florida State School for the Blind, where he learned to read braille, play piano and memorize music. Learned so well he could compose and arranged melodies in his head. Charles hit the road as a struggling musician.

It was about this time, though, that he picked up a drug habit, a habit he didn't kick until convicted of heroin and marijuana possession 20 years later.

Charles's path to greatness would lead him far from the South to Seattle, Washington. His first real taste of fame would come with the 1955 release of "I've Got a Woman." It was the beginning course of Charles' indelible mark on the face of popular music.

In 1960, Charles won his first Grammy for "Georgia on my Mind." His rendition of the song would later become the state song of Georgia.

The music of Ray Charles defined modern soul, brought jazz and R&B to the main stream, helped country music gain worldwide acceptance.

And along the way, many credited Charles with being instrumental in the invention of rock'n roll. CHARLES: You can bend. I mean you can change. As long as you stay within the context of the song itself so you don't lose the public. You can always do it 50,000 different ways, too.

WHITFIELD: His icon status caught the eye of Pepsi. In Charles the soft drink giant found one of their most memorable pitch men.

In 1986, Charles became one of the original inductees into the Rock'n Roll Hall of Fame.

His rendition of "America the Beautiful" would set the 1984 Republican Convention on fire.

"A Song for You" brought Charles his 12th Grammy in 1994.

The popular entertainer also knew the value of giving back. He lent his considerable talents to the song "We Are the World," raising millions to feed the people starving in Africa.

His life was a lesson in triumph overcoming tragedy. And his audience, the whole world.

CHARLES: For me, my music is my existence. It's just like your breathing. Without your breathing, you're no longer here. Without my music, I feel I'm no longer here.

WHITFIELD: Fredricka Whitfield, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Ray Charles, dead today at the age of 73.

We spent the better part of this week talking about the death of another American legend, Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan was also, we've learned, a big fan of Ray Charles. In fact, in January 1985, Ray Charles was the featured entertainer at President Reagan's second inauguration. The president again asked him to sing "America the Beautiful." And he did.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FRM. AMBASSADOR: ... by lowering expectations. Essentially, it looks to me, based on what we just heard, that the Bush administration failed to achieve either of its objectives at Sea Island. They're not going to get more NATO troops and the president is now admitting that and saying maybe trainers.

And secondly, they're not going to get massive debt relief.

So now, he's going to go on to Dublin for the European Union Summit and Istanbul for the NATO Summit. Let's see what he can do better there because it's, despite what John King obviously and correctly called a "nice, positive mood," jovial even, there was nothing jovial about the message today. WOODRUFF: In terms of NATO, is there that great a disagreement between what the U.S. is seeking at this point, and what the NATO countries are willing to do?

HOLBROOKE: President Bush and his senior team has said repeatedly that they want more NATO troops. Today President Bush said he's not going to get NATO troops so he doesn't need them. Any viewer can read that for what it is, a significant disappointment, against expectations. Now they have got till Istanbul to try to do better. I don't see how anyone can call what we just saw a success and I think the White House probably knows that.

WOODRUFF: You've obviously been advising John Kerry during his campaign. His position has also been that NATO should provide more troops, has it not?

HOLBROOKE: His position, from the beginning has been that the U.N. and NATO should be brought in early. I believe that had the administration done what Senator Kerry suggested, and done it a year ago, things would have been different. For example, even the French and Germans at the height of the argument with the United States, had offered to send more troops to Afghanistan and make Afghanistan a NATO mission early which would have freed up troops for Iraq and offered to train Iraqis, all that was rejected slowly, belatedly, reluctantly. The administration has moved in that direction but it's been too little too late.

WOODRUFF: Let me ask you about something else. The president was asked about the absence, at least, up until now, of weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological or nuclear. The reporter asked him if he had reached a conclusion. He said, no, that the inspectors were not back yet. How do you read that?

HOLBROOKE: I don't know how to read that, Judy. Obviously, it is to the administration's advantage to let many people think that maybe they'll find weapons of mass destruction later, maybe, you know, that nothing went wrong in the Abu Ghraib camp, that there's a link between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. But they have never come up with evidence on any of these issues. I understand this. We're in a very complicated phase now where it's half policy and half politics. What you're seeing on all of these issues is something designed to reduce the political consequences of unsuccessful policies.

WOODRUFF: Another, another issue the president was asked about, were the stories in the last few days about the Bush administration, at one level or another, appearing to authorize treatment of prisoners, mistreatment of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison and other locations where al Qaeda prisoners were being kept. Today, the president insisted that any interrogations conformed with U.S. law. He said whatever was done, the interrogators were told to act consistent with international treaty obligations. Does that put this to rest?

HOLBROOKE: I don't think so. In fact, yesterday, you reported General Sanchez has effectively allowed the investigation to start looking at him and he's the ground commander in Iraq. Something went wrong. President Bush has admitted it and everyone else has. Now, the only way to reduce the damage to the United States is for the fullest, openest, most transparent possible investigation. This doesn't represent the bulk of American soldiers or the values of America but it did happen on our watch in Iraq. It is causing incredible damage to the United States world-wide. The only way we can reduce that is to have a full investigation. I don't think we ought to prejudge its outcome with comments of the sort you just quoted.

WOODRUFF: And very quick last question. You mentioned the two meetings coming up in Europe. The focus of those is what? I mean, how important are those meetings going to be coming off this G-8 meeting?

HOLBROOKE: I think the Dublin meeting is fairly important and maybe the Europeans will help the Americans on debt relief for Iraq. The Istanbul summit, the NATO summit, is tremendously important. Here we are on the front line state on Iraq's border, the most jeopardized, the country that could well invade northern Iraq if the Kurds go separatist. It is critical that at this meeting the president get NATO to do what he has previously called for and today said is not possible. He's got to get NATO more engaged. Let's see what happens in Istanbul. It's a big, big meeting.

WOODRUFF: Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and currently an adviser to John Kerry. Richard Holbrooke, thank you very much for coming by.

HOLBROOKE: Thanks, Judy.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it. And please stay with us. Our review of the president's news conference on Iraq, the war on terrorism and the G-8 summit will continue. I'm going to be joined by two of the hosts of CNN's "CROSSFIRE" in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back to this special expanded edition of INSIDE POLITICS. President Bush now has wrapped up his work at the G- 8 summit in Sea Island, Georgia. He will now return to Washington to take part in the nation's final farewell to former President Ronald Reagan.

Joining me now are two of the hosts of CNN's "CROSSFIRE," Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson. Gentlemen, it's good to see the both of you. Let's talk about this G-8 summit. The president held a news conference and seemed to say it had gone well. He played down any of the disagreements. He said any disagreements we have had have been mainly between us and the French, and we're working on that. Otherwise he made it seemed like a positive thing. And then I turned around and interviewed Richard Holbrooke, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who is advising John Kerry and he said the administration failed in its two principal objectives. Who's telling the truth -- Paul.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Well, the president being from Texas, I can use Texasism (ph), that LBJ coin, which says you can't shine a cow patty. OK, this thing was not a big success for the president. I think he's fortunate that attention of the world was diverted rightly to President Reagan's passing. The most objective thing he had was to try to win NATO support for more troops and try to get more help from our allies. He failed miserably. And as we thinking about President Reagan, I think back to one of President Reagan's big objectives, to put intermediate nuclear missiles, Persian missiles in Europe. The Europeans hated it. But President Reagan persuaded the French president, Mitterand, to go to Germany and speak on behalf of Reagan's Persian missiles. The French were difficult then but Reagan could lead them. I think the comparison today, President Bush has been utterly unable to be the leader of the free world.

WOODRUFF: Is that a fair comparison?

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": I would say it wasn't simply Europeans that hated Persian missiles, it was also the American left, just to...

BEGALA: Which they were wrong about it. That's 20 years ago. The point is that Reagan was an effective leader...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: You brought it up, I didn't. I would say I think not getting debt relief is a big deal. I do. I think probably Holbrooke was half right. I don't think -- I don't know many people who really expected NATO to commit tens of thousands of troops to northern Iraq. I do think, though, that given the tension between the United States, the Bush administration and some of our allies in Europe, it is sort of good news that there wasn't a shouting match that broke out during the G-8 summit. I don't know. I think it probably did go well by most measures. I don't it's fair to say everyone expected we were going to get NATO troops because I don't everyone did expect that.

BEGALA: But it's the president's job to deliver for the American people on security interest not just to have a nice time and have the food complimented by the French president. It's his job to help get NATO to commit troops. President Clinton got the French to fly more combat air support in Kosovo than any other ally.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: But, actually, he didn't get U.N. approval for Kosovo.

BEGALA: That's right. So what? He advanced America's interests.

CARLSON: Let me just say one thing.

One of the key critiques of the Kerry campaign of the Bush administration is that he has made our allies in Europe dislike us and that in fact, their policies, Bush's and Kerry's, are very similar, as you know, for the future of Iraq. But the reason Bush is bad, they say, is because the Europeans don't like us. So, in fact, by their own measure, it's important, it seems to me, that the French like him. That's kind of the essence of the Kerry campaign. No. I'm watching carefully. It seems to be yes.

BEGALA: It's not like us. It's support us. It's follow our lead. And the president has had a failure of leadership here. He's a very friendly guy. Who doesn't like George W. Bush? He's a nice guy. What's not to like?

CARLSON: A lot of people hate him, actually.

BEGALA: Well, they ought not. He's a lovely man. But they should follow America's leadership and he has failed in that fundamental goal.

WOODRUFF: All right, we are watching live pictures of the president preparing to leave Sea Island, Georgia.

And while we do, let's do a little turn here and talk about the campaign more specifically. It's been on hold since the death of Ronald Reagan last Saturday. Both John Kerry and George W. Bush have stayed back, although they've been running campaign commercials on television. That will continue every single day, except Friday.

Does the passing of Ronald Reagan ultimately change the dynamics of this race, Tucker?

CARLSON: I don't -- I don't know if it does. I don't think it -- I mean, you have heard all these theories about the various public opinion bank shots the week of celebrating the life of Ronald Reagan will cause, that Bush will look lesser by comparison. And it's true, he's not a small government conservative and he's not a terrific communicator.

On the other hand, people liked Reagan because of his ideas, it seems to me, and his sunniness. Bush is pretty sunny. And I think being reminded that conservative ideas are pretty popular, I don't think that can hurt Bush. I just don't. As counterintuitive and as appealing as some of the theories on the other side may be, I think it helps.

BEGALA: It hasn't helped at all. It has helped in that it has overshadowed his really enormous failure on the world stage in Savannah, Georgia. But short of that...

WOODRUFF: You really believe it's completely overshadowed? Well...

BEGALA: Oh, yes. What can -- what -- who's going to say, gee, there was Ronald Reagan, right? So now he passed away. And God bless him. And, really, your heart goes out of course to Mrs. Reagan. But that doesn't get any votes for George W. Bush.

And in fact he ain't no Ronald Reagan. He's a lovely man in many ways, but he's not a larger-than-life figure. And he's certainly not successful in being the leader of the free world. And the fact that he stumbles so badly on the very stage where Ronald Reagan excelled just makes him look bad.

WOODRUFF: Tucker, you going to let that lie there?

CARLSON: I think it's self-evidently ludicrous and just campaign propaganda. No offense or anything.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Do you think, four months from now, anybody is going to cast a vote because Ronald Reagan died?

CARLSON: I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I don't think, in any way, people are going to vote for George W. Bush because of Ronald Reagan or his death.

I'm merely saying I don't think that the festivities or the remembrances over the last week hurt Bush. And, in fact, people are remembering what they liked about Ronald Reagan. And they liked his conservatism. And Bush is more conservative than Kerry. Therefore, in some small way, I think it helps Bush. It doesn't hurt him.

WOODRUFF: Ronald Reagan. There is a movement afoot not only to name -- to put his picture on the $10 bill, the $20 and the dime. Tucker, there's a move to change the name of the Pentagon.

CARLSON: Well, how about a move to get rid of the...

WOODRUFF: Is that a good idea?

CARLSON: How about a move to get rid of the Labor Department or the Energy Department, or, say, the Education Department? Those would all be moves, I think, undertaken....

WOODRUFF: To get rid of. You're not talking about renaming. We're talking about renaming.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: And how about getting rid of the DMV and rolling back seat belt laws and letting people smoke in restaurants if they want to?

BEGALA: Which Reagan passed.

CARLSON: Right. But I'm just saying, moves in the spirit of freedom, I think those would be marvelous ways to remember the legacy.

WOODRUFF: Get rid of seat belt laws to remember -- a way to remember Ronald Reagan.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Amen, right, or anything that increases personal freedom. I mean, let's stop naming and start doing.

WOODRUFF: But not renaming the Pentagon? CARLSON: I don't know. Let's get rid of the Labor Department first. That's my view.

BEGALA: See, that is at least a principled conservative view.

You ask -- the chairman of the Republican Party famously went up to New Hampshire a couple of months ago. "The Manchester Union Leader," a very conservative paper, excoriated him because he refused to name even one, even one, out of 10,000 federal programs that the Republicans want to shut down. Why?

Because they talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. And I think that's why, in fact, President Bush does not look very good in the passing of Ronald Reagan, because he's not delivering on anything Reagan's people actually care about.

WOODRUFF: Last quick thing. A "Los Angeles Times"' poll today has John Kerry seven points ahead. Now, in some battleground states, George Bush is holding his own.

Is this just a blip on the screen? Does it mean anything, Tucker?

CARLSON: I mean, by itself, I don't think that -- and I think Paul would agree -- I don't think the head-to-heads are terribly significant this far out. They will be in October, obviously.

But, over time, if every week for the next 10 weeks, John Kerry is up, yes, it means something. Of course it does.

BEGALA: What means more is -- and Tucker is right. The head-to- head doesn't matter at all this far away from the election.

But what I track is this question of, are we moving in the right direction? And "The L.A. Times" poll asked it a slightly different way. And they get almost I think over -- almost 60 percent, over 55 percent, saying that we need to go off on a very fundamentally different direction. That can never be good for an incumbent president.

When Ronald Reagan stood for reelection, 55 percent or more said the country was going in the right direction. And so he was reelected overwhelmingly. Same with Bill Clinton. President Bush is more in line with where his father and Jimmy Carter were, where the country is going in the wrong direction in the eyes of voters. He's going to lose.

WOODRUFF: We're going to leave it there. Tucker Carlson, Paul Begala, this is your time slot. We are really glad to have you here.

CARLSON: Well, it's wonderful to be with you.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... our time slot.

WOODRUFF: You always say that. We know you don't mean it. But thanks anyway.

CARLSON: Thank you.

BEGALA: Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: All right, great to see you.

The Democratic National Convention is just six weeks away, a little more than that. Coming up, why a federal judge is ordering U.S. Marshals to the convention site now. Also on this expanded edition of INSIDE POLITICS, memories of Ronald Reagan. I'll talk with his former adviser and campaign aide Lyn Nofziger.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: In Boston, U.S. Marshals are to be deployed at the FleetCenter, site of next month's Democratic Convention, and right now the scene of a protest by picketing police officers.

Our Dan Lothian has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): As union members with the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association protest stalled contract talks outside the FleetCenter, a federal judge is sending in U.S. Marshals. The reason, so that construction crews and supplies needed to prepare for next month's Democratic National Convention can enter the facility without disruption.

ANTHONY DICHIO, U.S. MARSHAL: At any of the entrances, they will not be walking across.

LOTHIAN: Under pressure, Mayor Tom Menino had gone to court for help. He got it.

MERITA HOPKINS, COUNSEL, CITY OF BOSTON: The judge was unequivocal in saying, you need to get out of the way, no blockage.

LOTHIAN: Police officers and other unions which had been granted permission by the court for an informational protest had also been blocking trucks and strongly discouraging work crews from entering the site, but insist they were within the court's order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We represent professional people. Our conduct has been professional to this point.

LOTHIAN: Without conceding any wrongdoing, a lawyer for the Patrolmen's Association vowed to follow the rules.

THOMAS DRECHSLER, ATTORNEY FOR POLICE UNION: To the extent the judge has refined the order, my clients are prepared to comply with it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Mayor Menino has been under pressure from Democratic leaders, who want him to get the union situation settled. With less than seven weeks to go before the convention, the mayor says that he does have some concerns about delays, but says they did have some wiggle room.

As for union members, the city's police commissioner laid down the law today, saying anyone who violates the order will be arrested -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: The days are counting down. They have got to get that worked out.

LOTHIAN: That's right.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dan Lothian, thank you very much.

Well, checking the headlines now in our "Campaign News Daily," a new poll finds John Kerry and George W. Bush locked in a tight battle in the showdown state of New Hampshire. The America Research Group survey gives both candidates 47 percent. With independent Ralph Nader in the race, they are tied with 46 percent, Nader receiving 2 percent.

Nader has turned in his signature petitions to get his name on Arizona's presidential ballot. The Nader campaign reports that it has turned in more than 21,000 signatures, far more than the almost 15,000 names required. Nader earlier was endorsed by the Reform Party, which could give him access to the ballot in seven states, including Florida and Michigan.

Still to come on this expanded edition of INSIDE POLITICS, we'll take you outside the U.S. Capitol, where thousands of people are still hoping for a glimpse of President Reagan's casket. Also, I'll talk to two of his former advisers, Lyn Nofziger and James Brady, struck down the same day of the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We're taking you live to the Rotunda of the United States Capitol, where a very familiar face, the man who led the Soviet Union during Ronald Reagan's presidency, Mikhail Gorbachev, is standing there to pay his respects to the man he faced off in the Cold War.

It was Mikhail Gorbachev who brought reform to the Soviet Union, who led to the collapse of communism and to the Soviet Union. Today, Mikhail Gorbachev stands 16 years later representing Russia -- Mikhail Gorbachev, whose place in history forever tied to Ronald Reagan.

Well, outside the United States Capitol, CNN's Sean Callebs is standing by. He's been talking to some of the thousands of people waiting in line to get in.

Sean, what is it like?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, it's actually kind of amazing to watch this.

The line simply gets longer and longer now, as the work day here in Washington, D.C., comes to an end. A lot of people are apparently showing up here. We're seeing people in their business suits. We're seeing people military uniform. We're seeing tourists. We're seeing people just trying to adjust to what is a very warm afternoon here in Washington, D.C.

And all these people aware that they are going to have to be competing with the dignitaries like Mikhail Gorbachev in the Rotunda right now. People patiently waiting here. We are going to pan over. From where you're looking right now, these people who have been waiting in line for a couple of hours still have about a three-hour wait to snake their way along up to the reflecting poll, then up to the nation's Capitol and into the Rotunda.

Despite the weather out here today, the weather conditions, everybody seemed to hold up relatively well. There have been a number of medical officials out here throughout the day doing what they can to make people comfortable. There's plenty of water on hand. There is sunblock. And you can see umbrellas really dotting the landscape out here, doing what they can to create their own shade.

Many people saying that they came here today to say a solemn goodbye to former President Reagan, many others because it's a piece of history. They want to be here to tell either their children or just relate what they feel on this day -- Judy, back to you.

WOODRUFF: Sean, tell us a little bit more about these people, ages, where they're from, anything you've been able to pick up about them.

CALLEBS: Without question.

We've seen infants. I saw a child that was just seven weeks old, ironically, from somebody I worked with in South Carolina about 15 years ago. And we're seeing people that are struggling through on walkers. So we're seeing really people that cut across a wide spectrum.

WOODRUFF: Sean Callebs, outside the Capitol, thank you very much.

Well, Ronald Reagan, as we know, ran for the White House three times. He lost the nomination to Gerald Ford in 1976. Then he was elected in 1980 and '84.

A fixture during those campaigns, as well as during his 1966 first race for governor of California was Lyn Nofziger.

I spoke with Nofziger a little while ago. And I asked his thoughts on the turnout to honor Ronald Reagan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LYN NOFZIGER, FORMER REAGAN ADVISER: No, you don't really look forward to this kind of moment, if you're talking about the ceremony and so forth.

But, you know, it's interesting that he was such a magnetic figure, if you will, that I'm sure what's happening here is really exceeding everybody's expectations, the number of people out and the kind of enduring reception that he's had.

WOODRUFF: You first met him -- we talked about this the other day -- in 1965.

NOFZIGER: Right.

WOODRUFF: And you also said that you commented to somebody, this man could be president one day.

NOFZIGER: Well, that was -- you had to wait until 1966 before I said that.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: It took you a whole year to figure it out. What in the world made you -- gave you that idea?

NOFZIGER: You know, there was something between him and the people that he was campaigning to. And it's hard to put a finger on it.

And he said himself that the reason people liked him is because they considered him one of them. But it was more than that. He talked to them and there was something believable about him, almost regardless what he said. And there was, as I say, something just there between him and the people that I -- and I had been a political reporter for a number of years.

WOODRUFF: Right.

NOFZIGER: And I had never sensed this before.

WOODRUFF: I want to ask you about a specific moment in his life, in his career, 1980 convention. You were trying to work out a deal so that Gerald Ford would be his running mate. How close did that come to being reality?

NOFZIGER: Much too close, Judy. It would have been a terrible disaster.

But we had been -- our polling had showed there were three people who would help Reagan in the campaign. And one of them was Gerald Ford. And so we started negotiating with him. And, actually, Ford wanted more say than a vice president should have. And, of course, as we looked at it afterward, there would have been the great thought that Reagan didn't think that he was competent to be president, so he had gone and gotten Gerald Ford.

So it was a good thing for that we finally -- both Ford and Reagan decided almost simultaneously rooms apart that this was the wrong thing to do. WOODRUFF: But then Ronald Reagan turned to George W. Bush, a man...

NOFZIGER: Yes, he was taller than Howard Baker.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: A man he didn't know that well at the time. Were they friends?

NOFZIGER: No, they were not. But you don't have to be friends with the person you pick to be vice president. You pick a person to be -- for your running mate who you think will help you get elected.

WOODRUFF: And their relationship after that?

NOFZIGER: Very good.

Reagan is an includer, was an includer. He was always a person who wanted to bring people in. And among the very first things he said to George Bush was, first of all, you will be part of this campaign. We'll campaign as a team. And then, when they were elected, he said, if there's ever a meeting I'm in, you can be in it if you want to be in it. And he said, we'll have lunch together once a week. In other words, he moved very strongly to make George Bush an integral part of his team.

WOODRUFF: And he was saying this to someone who had run against him.

NOFZIGER: Oh, sure.

WOODRUFF: For president.

NOFZIGER: But Reagan never held grudges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Lyn Nofziger, who first went to work for Ronald Reagan in 1965.

Coming up, someone else who used to work closely with President Reagan; 23 years ago, James Brady was the president's press secretary. But the events of a March afternoon would change his life forever. My interview with James Brady and his wife, Sarah, in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: As we continue to look back at the life and the presidency of Ronald Reagan, I spoke a short time ago with Ronald Reagan's first White House press secretary, Jim Brady and his wife, Sarah. Jim Brady, of course, was wounded in the assassination attempt on President Reagan back in 1981.

Just about an hour ago, I spoke with Jim and Sarah Brady.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: What are you feeling this week about...

JAMES BRADY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Sadness.

WOODRUFF: About this man that you served.

J. BRADY: Yes. Yes. And hopefully served well.

WOODRUFF: And, Sarah, what are you thinking and feeling?

SARAH BRADY, WIFE OF JAMES BRADY: A lot of memories coming back, and just a reminder of the respect and love that we had -- had and have had all these years for him.

WOODRUFF: Have you had a special bond, in a way, with the Reagans because of the fact, of course, you both were shot the same day?

(CROSSTALK)

J. BRADY: Yes.

S. BRADY: And they both took such care to take care of -- to watch out for us and to include us all these years.

WOODRUFF: After President Reagan was getting better, wounded and getting better, did they come and did he check on you?

J. BRADY: Oh, yes. Yes, he did, as -- as a matter of fact, both of them did.

S. BRADY: I remember the jelly beans he brought you in the hospital.

J. BRADY: Yes. Because he knows, at the Cabinet meeting, I'd bring the crystal jar that Mayor Bradley from Los Angeles gave me, put my paw in them, and then throw them in my mouth.

WOODRUFF: Jelly beans were clearly one of the trademarks of the Reagan White House.

Sarah Brady, this had to be the worst day of your life, the day that the two of them were shot. But you've gone on. It's 22, 23 years ago.

S. BRADY: Twenty-three.

WOODRUFF: What about your connections with the Reagans since then and with President Reagan?

S. BRADY: They have -- up until the last -- 10 years ago, when the president got Alzheimer's, he never missed a birthday of Jim's, even after they left office.

We were out. We visited with them after they went back to California in their home in Bel Air just about six months before the Alzheimer's announcement. And we were with them out there on several occasions. They've just been marvelous to us, have always -- there's just a little special something there. And they -- I don't think -- we certainly hope they never felt like they had to, but there was just a warmth. But, then, they're warm, wonderful people, wonderful people.

WOODRUFF: I want to ask you about today. Both of you were interviewed on "The Today Show" this morning. And you said something about President Reagan's views on the Brady law, gun control and about the assault weapons ban. The National Rifle Association has come forward today and given chapter and verse on how President Reagan was for gun rights.

S. BRADY: Well, it's very strange, but he certainly came out publicly for both the Brady Bill and the assault weapon ban and made telephone calls on the day of the assault weapon ban, 10 phone calls that day, made a public statement on behalf of the Brady law.

We are certainly -- and I'm sure he felt the same way -- not for banning or taking away people's rights, but for commonsense measures. And the president felt the same way.

WOODRUFF: Jim, do you think -- Brady -- do you think President Reagan changed his mind about gun control?

J. BRADY: No, he was there all along.

S. BRADY: He had signed a bill in California. And, you know, we have got an -- the assault weapon ban that President Reagan worked for and made those 10 swing phone calls for is up for renewal this year. And we're certainly hoping we get that through. We have got a lot of work to do.

WOODRUFF: What do you think Ronald Reagan's principal legacy will be? There's been so much talk about it this week. What do you feel?

J. BRADY: I've never seen a man with as much optimism contained in -- first of all, decent and an optimist.

I can remember when he said he was going to put the Soviet Union out of business. And they said, don't do that. You can't do it. He said, yes, I can, because I believe I can. And he did it.

WOODRUFF: Extraordinary.

Jim Brady, Sarah Brady.

Jim Brady, somebody who we thought we had lost you that day, but here you are 23 years later. You're still with us.

J. BRADY: Yes, I kind of thought that I'd lost me that day also.

WOODRUFF: We're glad you're here.

S. BRADY: We are here.

WOODRUFF: We're really glad you're here.

J. BRADY: I'm glad I'm here also.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Jim and Sarah Brady, two very courageous people remembering Ronald Reagan.

INSIDE POLITICS will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: And that's it for this special edition of INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Judy Woodruff.

Be sure to tune in to CNN's coverage tomorrow of the state funeral of President Ronald Reagan. It all starts tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. I'll be reporting from the National Cathedral.

Have a good night. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com