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President Meets with House Freedom Caucus; Shaky Prognosis for Health Bill; Administration Open to Stripping out Benefits; ISIS Claims Responsibility for Attack; London Attacker Identified; Trump Associates Coordinated with Russians. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 23, 2017 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:03] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thanks for sharing your day with us.

And a very big day it is. The spy novel plot thickens. CNN is told the FBI has travel records, meeting schedules and other records suggesting associates of then candidate Trump worked with Russian operatives on the timing of anti-Clinton disclosures in last year's campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: There are so many moving parts here, including the latest news this morning that supposedly there was coordination between the Trump campaign and the Russians, for which I've seen no substantiation. But it continues on and on and on that that's the reason why we need a select committee to clear this whole issue up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And in London, police make anti-terror arrests and parliament is back to work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We are not afraid. And our resolve will never waiver in the face of terrorism. And we meet here in the oldest of all parliaments because we know that democracy and the values it entails will always prevail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: But we begin and likely will spend most of this hour on a defining day and defining test for the president and the new all- Republican Washington. The House is set to vote later today on a plan to repeal and replace Obamacare. It's priority one for the GOP, and yet the outcome is uncertain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: I don't know why we ought to be rewriting the entire bill just in order to cajole a few people to come along. We ought to go back to the drawing board and come up with free market solution. Part of being a governing party means putting forward legislation that members of our own party can vote for while maintaining their campaign promises.

I'd encourage all within the sound of my voice, all of my friends in the House of Representatives who were perhaps on the fence on this one, just vote no. We'll still get it repealed, but we'll get it actually repealed. This bill doesn't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: An interesting day to say the least.

With us to share their reporting and their insights, "The Atlantic's" Ron Brownstein, Julie Hirschfeld Davis of "The New York Times," CNN's Dana Bash and Perry Bacon of FiveThirtyEight.

President Trump, this hour, is in a make or break meeting, sitting down with House conservatives who, at the moment, are the biggest obstacle to passing that legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare. It is hard to overstate the stakes here. The vote is scheduled for later today. We'll see if it happens. But it's scheduled for later today. And defeat would not only undermine the young Trump presidency, but also the leadership of House Speaker Paul Ryan and his key deputies.

Let's go straight to the White House. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is standing by.

Jeff, the president is in this meet with these 20 -- with members of the 29-member House Freedom Caucus. He has been trying for the past week plus to get them to sign on. What's going to happen?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He has, indeed, John. And this is one of those final meetings. And, of course, it is not open. You know, this is a meeting that he is having privately. But we do have a glimpse of what's happening in there because one of the president's aides sent out a picture showing a standing ovation when the president was walking in. So we don't know if they'll be leaving to a standing ovation, though.

The reality here is, some of these White House meetings have been very successful in getting people on board, but others have not been. And I am told by advisers here and Republicans I'm talking to on Capitol Hill, we need to keep as much of a focus on the moderates as this House Freedom Caucus, because the more changes that are made to this to, you know, sort of bring people on on the right, is hurting people in the middle, which we've, you know, seen happening all morning long here.

No question this is the time for salesmanship, the time for sort of closing this deal. But I'm told there's also a bit of confusion here with so many phone calls happening from all the president's top advisers saying slightly different things to different people here. It's one of the reasons they wanted to have them all in this same meeting, in the same room here to discuss all this with the president.

But, still, even though the vote is scheduled for this evening, expected this evening, other Republicans I'm talking to here and on Capitol Hill say that they would not be at all surprised if it was set aside or pushed back. If that happens, of course, that's a sign there is a big problem.

John.

KING: That's an understatement to say the least. Jeff Zeleny at the White House. We'll check back as that meeting breaks up, as the lawmakers come out.

Let's bring it into the room.

The House speaker, Paul Ryan, also was supposed to speak to the public this morning, speak to reporters this morning. He's delayed that until this afternoon. Horse-trading behind closed doors, wheeling and dealing, I think the very thing the Republicans criticize the Democrats for doing when they passed Obamacare, but we'll put that aside for a second.

What does this tell you that at the last -- the president is meeting -- apparently gets a standing ovation -- from members of the House Freedom Caucus who, at the moment, you could make the case are undermining the president on priority number one because they won't accept what he thought was the plan early in the week.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They are 100 percent undermining him. And the question is whether or not they continue to do that to the point where the Republican leadership is forced to cancel the vote. I had a senior Republican on Capitol Hill say to me this morning, the president is now understanding what Republican leaders in the House have been dealing with for the past, you know, eight years or so.

[12:05:07] KING: John Boehner somewhere is sitting and laughing.

BASH: Drinking a merlot and smoking a cigarette -- and smoking a cigarette.

KING: Yes, yes, yes.

BASH: But -- and that the president -- and I'm told that the president is incredibly frustrated. Again, take a number, Mr. President. I mean this is -- this is the way Republican leaders have felt for some time. And the reason is because, and we'll see what happens out of this meeting at the White House right now, is because they feel that the House Freedom Caucus is impossible to get to yes, that they keep moving the goal post, and that, you know, they just basically don't want to do this. At the same time, it has been hard for them to look the president in the eye or be on the other end of the cell phone when he keeps calling them saying, I'm going to deny you and deny the Republican leadership the chance to say we kept our promise.

RON BROWNSTEIN, "THE ATLANTIC": And, of course, the challenge is, even if they get to yes, the process of getting to yes is creating so many more problems in the Senate.

KING: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: I mean I think the history -- since the Republicans took over the House in '95 with Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay, even John Boehner, who had the most problems, usually they find a way to get it through the House --

BASH: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: By moving it to the right and then they count on the Senate moderates, in essence, to buckle. But this bill is going to be asking an awful lot of those Senate moderates because I think the biggest argument against it before these latest changes was that it imposed an age tax. It significantly raised premiums and out-of-pocket costs for older, working age adults who are now the core of the Republican coalition. The majority of Donald Trump's votes came from whites over 45.

KING: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: The changes that the Liberty Caucus is demanding make that worse. I mean kind of -- would add more out-of-pocket costs for all of those, and would also affect women, you know, by no longer having to provide guaranteed maternity benefits. You have to buy them ala carte. They quickly become unaffordable or unavailable. Will Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins, are they going to be willing to vote for that?

KING: The answer is no, I think.

PERRY BACON, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT: Jeff made a really important point too about the moderates in the House. As you move the bill to the right, it becomes a problem on the left.

KING: Yes. Right.

BACON: My view is (INAUDIBLE) what I've seen so far is about 30 members are opposed to this. About 15 in the Freedom Caucus. About 15 outside of that. So those people are on the left and the more changes you make, like Ron talked about in terms of maternity leave and things like that, I think we've seen like four or five members on the sort of more left side of the party leave the vote and so they're voting no in the last couple of days. That's where the draining votes are coming from right now.

BASH: Right.

KING: But the question becomes, what is the president willing to do to get this done? And this is his first test. This is the guy who said, I can do this. I alone. I can cut these deals. And we -- even now the changes they've made so far, we can put some of them on the screen, even before today they had already agreed to add a work requirement or allow states to add a work requirement on Medicaid. Let states -- you pick block grants instead for the Medicaid funding if they wanted to. Ban new states -- some 30 plus states have already expanded Medicaid under Obamacare, ban any new states from jumping in there, repeal the Obamacare taxes more quickly, the taxes that were put in place, and set aside funds for more tax credits. That, in part, to deal with Ron's question about elderly people. That's what they agreed to do already.

Members of the Freedom Caucus want more.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

KING: They want it more market based. And what they want to do is take out what's called essential health benefits. Again, guaranteed maternity coverage, guaranteed mental health coverage, guaranteed prescription drug coverage, guaranteed emergency services. You look at the list right there.

The president promised in the campaign to keep a lot of those things. Is he going to sign off on a House bill, it's only the first step, but to keep the process moving, is he going to sign out -- I will support something that violates my promises?

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, I think at the beginning of the week the answer was clearly no. The White House knew that the Freedom Caucus wanted these things and basically was telling them, listen, we can't do that for a number of reasons. Procedural reasons. The bill could lose reconciliation protection. But also policy reasons, because he made the promises that you laid out -- that he laid out on the campaign trail.

He has styled himself a closer. He is the master dealmaker. He wants to be able to do this big negotiation and come out with a win. But he doesn't have a lot more he can offer them and still hold to what he said during the campaign. And what's fascinating is that we are on what was supposed to be the day of the vote. This is normally -- we've seen these -- these things play out before. It's a lot of horse trading. Little, small details. (INAUDIBLE) shots for different members.

But what they are debating here is the fundamental question of whether the federal government should be dictating what kind of insurance benefits people have or not. And that is the fundamental question that lies at the whole root of this debate. They're actually having this debate at the White House hours before the vote.

KING: And the man cutting the deal, or at least the closer, is a non- ideological Republican president who promised many things during the campaign that gives conservatives fits. The question is, is he willing to change now?

You spent a lot of time on Capitol Hill and how these things go. I mean the idea is, if Paul Ryan has to pull this bill today, what does that say? And for those of you at home, apologies for Washington speak, but they're trying to do this under a process called reconciliation. The reason they can't do everything in this one big bill is that the Senate rules, they believe, won't allow that. So the House is trying to do part of this.

What does it say for the speaker, if he has to, as Speaker Boehner did before him, before he grew so frustrated he just said he was leaving, has to pull this?

BASH: It's very, very bad for his leadership. It's very bad, again, not just for the president but for Paul Ryan. There's no question about it. And -- and --

[12:10:01] KING: But is it bad also for tax reform and for everything else down the road?

BASH: Well -- well, I was just going to say, let's just -- let's just also say that it is entirely possible that that is going to happen, that he is going to have to pull the bill unless the president can seal some kind of deal with this bloc of Freedom Caucus members who are there right now.

But what does that mean? You know, let's just sort of take this hypothetical down the road here. If he has to pull the bill, it is possible that it -- it's probable that they'll turn to tax reform. And I actually think something like tax reform could be more of a consensus builder for Republicans. Could be. Could be.

BROWNSTEIN: You've got one big exception, though, the import adjustment.

BASH: Yes, well that's -- that's -- no question.

BROWNSTEIN: It could have the same dynamic within the House and the Senate.

BASH: They could. No question, they could. But it's not as personal for these constituents.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

BASH: I mean health care is about as personal as it gets when you talk about legislation that affects me, that affects people's constituencies (ph).

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

BACON: One thing I was curious about, would the Freedom Caucus be team players once Obama was out of the presidency? And it sounds like they're behaving the exact same way they were before. And that's an important (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Right. Yes.

BASH: Yes.

KING: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: And -- and really the question is the model they're establishing. If the price of getting it out of the House is adding provisions that make it almost impossible to pass the Senate, even if they do pass it in the next several days, have they created a precedent that is valuable or damaging on those other legislative priorities? BASH: Can I just answer your question just in one other way as well

about Paul Ryan's leadership? There already has been a lot of second- guessing about the way he approached this from the beginning. Basically for a lot of conservatives, he compromised and negotiated with himself. That this has already been too moderate. That he should have, knowing the Freedom CA Caucus, knowing the way that his Republicans are, started further to the right knowing that when it gets to the Senate it's going to have to be moderated and ultimately even more so and that many members of the Freedom Caucus understand that, that they're already starting, from their perspective, way too far to the middle.

BROWNSTEIN: Worth noting, the bill, too far to the middle, the Congressional Budget Office said would remove health insurance for 24 million people --

KING: Right.

DAVIS: Exactly.

BROWNSTEIN: And, you know, they may vote before having a final estimate on this bill, which likely would be even higher and presumably would have even higher out-of-pocket costs for those older working age adults. And, again, it's worth noting --

BACON: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: A majority of Donald Trump's votes came from whites over 45. Three-quarters of all people in the country over 45 are white. These are Republican voters who would be the big losers in this kind of shift of risk and cost that is inherent in the deregulation in this bill.

KING: We'll come back to this later in the program. We're keeping an eye on that meeting at the White House. We should say, as the president is in this meeting, someone else apparently has his phone or else he's taking a break. He just tweeted out, "we're going to pass this. We're going to have action. Contact your representatives." So the president, if you're a Trump supporter, is asking for your help, even as he's in this key meeting. Again, we'll continue to track the defining day on health care throughout the program.

Up next, though, one American killed, now the attacker has been identified. The latest on the London terror investigation just ahead.

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[12:17:00] KING: Welcome back.

This hour yesterday, central London was locked down, paralyzed by a terror attack. Four people were killed, including, as we've just learned, one American. A man from Utah. Today, Prime Minister Theresa May honored the victims and preached a message of defiance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Yesterday, an act of terrorism tried to silence our democracy, but today we meet as normal, as generations have done before us and as future generations will continue to do, to deliver a simple message, we are not afraid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We're also learning ISIS now claiming that one of its, quote, "soldiers" is responsible for the rampage.

Nick Paton Walsh is live in London at the scene of the deadly attack.

Nick, police have just identified the suspect. And what do we know about him?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: His name is Khalid Masood, according to Scotland Yard, London's police force. And he appears to be a man aged 52 who lived in the West Midlands. That's where a lot of the focus of their arrests were, a town called Birmingham, a key city here in the United Kingdom. And also a man with a record of frankly petty crime, of violence, which may perhaps explain some of idiotically violent rampage that began here just over 24 hours ago when he took a car he had rented up onto the pavement here, a Hyundai, and plowed into about 40 people who received injuries. And it's here that two of his victims, two of his three victims lost their lives. One of them Kurt Cochran, a man from Utah, here, can you believe it, on his 25th wedding anniversary on holiday with his wife Melissa. She's now in hospital with a broken rib, leg and injuries to her face. One tragic loss of life there, which President Trump has called the loss of a great American. And also another individual, a Spanish teacher, age 43, Aysha Frade. She too died here.

The car then continued on down this road past where you can just about see is a police like obscured now by what also was here just over 24 hours ago, a large collection of tourists. People just coming to see this, Big Ben, a key London landmark attached to the heart of the British democracy here and government near the Houses of Parliament.

Now, this is a scene where life will be permanently altered, frankly, for those who come past here on the way to work as part of an everyday routine, but also today, too, as life gets back to normal. Tourists, some of them oblivious, it seems, to what happened here just 24 hours ago.

But the car continues down the road, 24 hours ago, into the railings and then the attacker jumped out, went around the corner, tried, it seems, to get in (INAUDIBLE), tried to get into the courtyard of parliament and then stabbed to death P.C. Keith Palmer, a man who gave his life trying to defend the Houses of Parliament here.

ISIS (INAUDIBLE) responsibility, but as often, we have no idea if they had any prior knowledge at all or just trying to append their branding to this sick crime, John.

KING: Nick Paton Walsh for us live on the scene in London. Nick, thanks very much for that.

Let's bring the conversation back here.

Tell me if you were as struck as I was by the demeanor of our president yesterday, President Trump, who, in the past, where it is San Bernardino, or Orlando, or Nice, or Brussels, has sent out tweets essentially saying, I told you so. We need to get tough. We need to be tougher. Very reserved yesterday. Sent out a tweet. "I spoke to the U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May today to offer condolences on the terrorist attack in London. She is strong and doing very well."

[12:20:16] The president being very measured there and we're told by sources that after a conversation with his new national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, who briefed him on what they knew and apparently gave him a message, Mr. President, at this moment, let's try to keep it calm. Don't put things out there. It was different, yes?

DAVIS: It was -- it was striking. I mean he was very quiet yesterday. They did -- the White House did put out a read-out of his call with Theresa May, but he was actually just beginning a meeting when they got news of the attack and he made a very glancing reference to it. Some news out of London, you know, and did not take the opportunity to talk about radical Islamic terrorism or this is why we need to get tough or this is why we need my travel ban. It was -- it was very muted and when we learned later that he's been talking to his national security adviser about this, that it -- I think that that's probably the reason why. They also hadn't learned a whole hell of a lot by the time they were -- he was --

BASH: But that hasn't stopped him before.

KING: Yes.

DAVIS: That has not stopped him before.

BACON: Yes.

DAVIS: And that's a striking contrast. I mean I do think --

BROWNSTEIN: That look felt like a tweet that may have been written by someone else, you know, the staff. I may have felt like a staff tweet --

DAVIS: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: As opposed to the tap with two ps on the president himself in the middle of the night.

But, look, I agree. I mean I think this was -- this was a more restrained -- and I -- and, you know what, we're probably going to see a presidency that kind of goes back and forth in those. And any time you think you have turned the corner and you have a restrained Donald Trump as president, you know, a few hours later you'll have something else.

KING: Right. His son acted differently.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Right.

KING: Donald Trump Jr. tweeting an old article from the London mayor, a Muslim, from September 22, 2016, in which the mayor said, if you live in a big urban area you're going to have to deal with these things some times. Donald Trump Jr. tweeting out, "you have to be kidding me." And the headline of the story was, "terror attacks are part of living in a big city says London mayor." The mayor has said I've got more important things to do than respond to Donald Trump Jr.

BACON: Two things. First of all, he quoted the mayor out of context. If you look at what the mayor actually said, he did not say that the way Donald Trump Jr. said.

KING: Right.

BACON: Secondly, we know on day one, Donald Trump, the president, behaved differently, but I would be curious when the Muslim ban conversation comes back, does he start invoking London again the way -- you remember the Muslim ban kind of grew out of the French attacks in the first place. That was his justification. So I'll be curious, day one he behaved in a traditional way, like Obama might have. I'll be curious if we're talking about the Muslim ban, he's defending it, he's on stage somewhere next week, if he invokes London the way that the British and a lot of other people do not support.

BASH: He is someone who generally, you know, just likes to tweet about things that he sees. And, obviously, we've seen, just going back into his twitter feed way before he was a candidate, some of the really bizarre things that he decided that he wanted to -- to comment on. But with regard to yesterday, I'm not saying that he hasn't learned a lesson and he's not going to be presidential at -- on big moments like this, but he also was a little bit distracted with, you know, trying to say that he was vindicated, which he was not, by the House Intelligence chair and trying to get his first important critical piece of legislation passed.

KING: For -- to Donald Trump Jr. I would say, maybe focus on the business and stay out of politics, maybe?

BROWNSTEIN: International relations?

KING: International relations.

BROWNSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE) yes. Yes.

KING: Right. Everybody sit tight, please.

Up next, new CNN reporting on the FBI's Russian election meddling probe and the president says his Obama wiretap allegation has been, as Dana noted, somewhat vindicated. Is that right?

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[12:27:34] KING: Welcome back now to the spy novel that just won't go away. Democrats today are renewing calls for an independent investigation into Russia's election meddling. These Democrats say the Republican who leads the House investigation proved yesterday he's more interested in protecting President Trump than following the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), RANKING MEMBER, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: The chairman will need to decide whether he is the chairman of an independent investigation into conduct which includes allegations of potential coordination between the Trump campaign and the Russians, or he's going to act as a surrogate of the White House, because he cannot do both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: More on that wrinkle and the fallout in just a moment.

First, though, important new CNN reporting on what the FBI director this week confirmed is an investigation into the possibility associates of then candidate Donald Trump coordinated with Russian operatives last year just as the Kremlin leaked hacked e-mails from the Democratic National Committee and from Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman. Several sources familiar with the investigation tell CNN, the FBI has not concluded there was collusion, but has gathered evidence suggesting such coordination may have taken place.

CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez helped break this story. He joins us now to lay this out.

Evan, let's just start with this. What information do investigators have that make them believe there may have been some collusion, or coordination, as the FBI director put it in his public testimony this week?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, U.S. officials tell CNN that the FBI has information that includes human intelligence, travel, business and phone records and accounts of in-person meetings that this information is raising the suspicions of the FBI counterintelligence investigators. And one law enforcement official said that the information in hand suggests, quote, "people connected to the campaign were in contact" and it appeared that they were giving the thumbs up to release information when it was ready. That said, there were other officials that we spoke to who said it's premature to draw that inference from the information that's been gathered so far since it's largely circumstantial.

The bottom line is that the FBI cannot yet prove that collusion actually took place, but the information suggesting collusion is now the focus of this investigation. I should note that the FBI would not comment for this story, nor would the White House. Trump officials have denied that there's any evidence of collusion, John.

KING: That they have. And we should make that clear, they have denied any collusion.

PEREZ: Right.

KING: They have said at the end of this investigation they will be proven right. Do we know, Evan, at this point who is being investigated?

[12:29:57] PEREZ: Well, we don't know exactly who is connected -- who's connected to Trump that is being investigated for possible coordination. But we do know that the FBI has already been investigating four -- at least four former Trump campaign associates, Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone and Carter Page.