Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Flynn to Plead the Fifth; Trump Didn't Mention Israel to Russians; Trump Visits Israel; Trump Softens Ton on Islam. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired May 22, 2017 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hour with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the president is enjoying a very warm welcome despite several thorny issues for the closed-door conversations. Already in Israel, a bit of history. Mr. Trump, the first sitting president to visit Jerusalem's Western Wall, one of the holiest sites in Judaism. Earlier in a meeting with Israel's president, President Trump said he hoped his visit might give a boost to the long-derailed peace process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I also look forward to discussing the peace process with Palestinian President Abbas. Young Israeli and Palestinian children deserve to grow up in safety and to follow their dreams free from the violence that has destroyed so many lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share their reporting and their insight this Monday, Jackie Kucinich of "The Daily Beast," Michael Bender of "The Wall Street Journal," Olivier Knox of "Yahoo! News," and Shannon Pettypiece of Bloomberg. A lot to discuss, as I said in this hour, including yesterday's big speech in Saudi Arabia, and this priceless take this morning from the Trump commerce secretary, Wilbur Ross.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILBUR ROSS, COMMERCE SECRETARY: There's no question that the liberalizing (INAUDIBLE) society and I think the other thing that was fascinating to me, there was not a single hint of a protester anywhere there during the whole time we were there. Not one guy with a bad placard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There's a reason for that. We'll get to it in a minute.

But today's breaking news first, including this. CNN has now confirmed that former Trump National Security Adviser Michael Flynn will invoke his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, this as he refuses to comply with the Senate Intelligence Committee subpoena in the Russia election meddling investigation. CNN's Phil Mattingly live on Capitol Hill with more on this.

Very, very big news, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right, John. The former national security adviser will later today send a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee saying he will decline to provide any documents requested by that committee, subpoenaed by that committee and, as you noted, will also invoke his Fifth Amendment rights if requested to testify.

Now, this was somewhat expected. We had some idea this was coming. His attorneys have made clear that he wasn't going to at least initially respond to some of the document requests. But here's kind of the issues here that are at stake. The Senate Intelligence Committee requested all documents, any documentation between the former national security adviser and Russian officials. That's what he's officially declining. Now, the rational, according to a person close to Flynn is this. This person says it would be, quote, "highly imprudent" to testify in any way shape or form at this point because several members of Congress, according to this person, have called for the former national security adviser's prosecution. That is exactly why, according to this person, he will be invoking his Fifth Amendment rights here.

But, I think all this does is draw attention to this issue. And you know very well, John, there are multiple Capitol Hill probes. There's also the FBI investigation. Associates of Flynn have received subpoenas related to a grand jury in terms of their investigation as well. So all of this coming at the same exact time. The Senate Intelligence Committee will be informed later today that Michael Flynn will decline their request for those documents. This only brings more attention to this issue which, obviously, isn't going away any time soon, John.

KING: Not any time soon. Phil Mattingly live for us on Capitol Hill. We'll return to this story a bit later. General Flynn, obviously, taking the advice of his lawyers. But as Phil notes, smart legal move, going to draw a lot of political scrutiny. We'll come back to that.

Now to Israel, though. President Trump talked tough on Iran and sort time ago and said he is convinced the Arab world is now ready for a warming toward Israel. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu offered a handshake when the president promised Iran would never get a nuclear weapon. And then an olive branch. Listen here as the prime minister looks to put to rest any talk Israel has any lasting anger over President Trump's recent sharing of Israeli intelligence with Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Thank you.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just so you understand, I never mentioned the word or the name Israel. Never mentioned it in that conversation. They were all saying I did. So you have that (ph) story wrong. Never mentioned the word Israel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Actually, we didn't have that story wrong, but we'll get back to that.

CNN's Sara Murray traveling with the president in Jerusalem.

Sara, the two leaders trying to set this one aside. The president saying I never mentioned Israel. That's not exactly the point.

SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That is not the point. And this all gets back to, of course, the conversation he had with Russians in the Oval Office where he shared highly classified intelligence, some of which came from one of our allies, Israel. Now, to date, no U.S. official has publically confirmed that Israel was the partner that intelligence came from. The president appeared to have just done that in front of the cameras. And that's not what the story said. The story said part of this intelligence came from an ally. That that ally may not have been asked for permission and it could cause problems. And the ally, the source of the information, could be relatively easily identified, which we then saw as a number of news outlets, including CNN, confirmed that that intelligence did come from Israel.

[12:05:00] And this caps off what had been a pretty tightly choreographed day for President Trump. He walked this political tight rope when he visited the Western Wall. He managed to rebuff Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's advances to go along with him to the Western Wall, which would have sent a signal that they believe that that was part of Israel and surely would have inflamed tensions with the Palestinians and with the Arab world. So the president was well on his way to sort of leaving behind some of the chaos, some of the controversy that has dogged him at home and had sort of a day full of very presidential images. He was the first sitting American president to visit the Western Wall, but then he made those comments about Israel, about intelligence sharing, and all that controversy just came rushing right back, John.

KING: Sara, try to stay with us. It's difficult from afar, but if you want to jump into the conversation, please do, and I'll bring you back in on my own on occasion.

But let's just talk about where we are for a minute in the sense that you know there's a very good friendship, personal friendship, between the prime minister and the president, which is very, very 180 degrees different from the enmity at the end of the Obama/Netanyahu relationship. But is that enough is the question. The prime minister clearly trying to throw an olive branch to the president there saying, let's just move past this. You know, if it happens, we'll talk about it in private. Publicly, intelligence cooperation is great.

But on the bigger issues, the president says, you know, he thinks he can broker Israeli-Palestinian peace. Well, so did President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, presidents before them. Is there any evidence on the table that either Abbas or Netanyahu have the will and the political space to make the tough choices necessary right now?

SHANNON PETTYPIECE, "BLOOMBERG NEWS": Probably no evidence yet. I mean I think we're in the honeymoon period. And making his first trip to the Middle East is a big sign. Having this previous relationship is a good first step. But these are also far word. We need to see action. And it's going to be a long haul. And we're, you know, not even in the first inning. We're in the first minute of the first inning.

OLIVIER KNOX, "YAHOO! NEWS": Let's put the Middle East peace piece of this into the broader puzzle of what President Trump is doing in the Middle East. He's clearly lining up the United States behind the Saudi vision of the Middle East as opposed to the Iranian vision, right, that President Obama forged a kind of (INAUDIBLE) moment with Iran with the nuclear deal. President Trump's not doing that. But he does need, as the Saudis and the Israelis, as their cooperation becomes more obvious and more public against ISIS, for example, and against Iran, they need a validator and Donald Trump is being that validator. He's -- by relaunching the peace process, he's making a lot -- making it politically easier for a lot of these Sunni Muslim leaders to work with -- even tacitly work with Israel to contain Iran. And that's -- I think that's where the Middle East peace component really comes in.

KING: Right. And it's -- but the timing is so interesting. President Rouhani just wins re-election in Iran, allegedly a moderate. He says I want to reach out and test the new administration. The president's making clear, no thanks, not interested in having that conversation. But listen here, to your point, where, you know, Israel has been the boogieman for the Arab world in the Middle East for longer than any of us have been alive. The president's trying to make it -- have them share their interest by making Iran the bogyman. And so liven to the president here, and then Prime Minister Netanyahu, on that very subject, can distrust of Iran somehow get the Arab world to be more friendly? You say tacitly. How about more openly with Israel?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Very historic (INAUDIBLE) place over the last two days. But I can see a much deeper path to friendship with Israel. And I think a lot of that's (INAUDIBLE) whatever it takes, but a lot of it's brought on by what's happening with Iran.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I think that the fact that you've taken a very strong position on -- and we all have different positions, not only to help security, but also helps propel the possibility of reconciliation and peace in Israel (INAUDIBLE). And that will help (INAUDIBLE) --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: A little bit hard to hear there, but the rhetoric is better. But is there anybody who can see a scenario where six months down the road there is an actual Arab peace process that -- where the Arabs are brokering, the Israelis are participating, they're talking about borders, they're talking about security arrangements, they're actually having a peace process, because when we talk about a peace process, there isn't one. We need to be crystal clear, there is no process at the moment.

MICHAEL BENDER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": That's right. And It's going to take not just months but years of singular focus on this -- this project to get it moving. And not a lot of room for error. You know, we heard Netanyahu earlier in your clip say how terrific intelligence sharing is. I have no doubt that the Israeli prime minister is filled with a sense of awe and wonder at our president's ability to share information and intel. But these are the sort of things that you -- there's almost no room for error here. And as we've seen President Trump sort of change his rhetoric from the campaign when it comes to other foreign players, Mexico, China, it's also shifted somewhat on Israel too. He's not quite the full-throat endorsement and defender of Israel that he -- that was during the campaign.

JACKIE KUCINICH, "THE DAILY BEAST": But even -- even on that --

KING: But not moving -- not moving the embassy, not announcing it on this trip. He's had some things to say about the Israelis and settlement expansion the prime minister hasn't liked.

[12:10:01] KUCINICH: Well, right. And I actually was looking up when he said that -- because he called, you know, Middle East peace the ultimate deal. But he also said he's look at the two-state and a one- state solution and he was going to, "I'll take the one both parties like."

KING: Right.

KUCINICH: So he has come a long way on -- in terms from the Israeli perspective on Israeli politics. But there are, as you said, some bumps in the road that haven't been resolved.

KING: And, Sara, if you're still with us, this president is a firm believer in his own deal making abilities. And to his credit, he's going to try. History suggests if you -- again, if you go past through the prior administrations, and I lived through several of those covering the White House, Bill Clinton put an enormous amount of time and resources into this. George W. Bush put it away for a long time, then tried late to jump in. President Obama was hot and cold. That he wants to try is admirable, but do they -- do they give you any factual perceptions of why they think things are different or just that President Trump is different, therefore, watch, we're going to pull this off?

MURRAY: I do think they really believe that this is a new administration and that this president has warmer ties with both sides. I mean that's certainly true. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, we know he was no fan of President Obama. So in that sense it is true. In the sense that he is trying to use Iran as a common enemy to bring them together, OK, fine, that's a starting point. And I think that the other reality is that these -- these world leaders are aware that when the president is frustrated, he lashes out very publicly at the person who is the source of that frustration. And so I think we're seeing with President Abbas, and as well as with Prime Minister Netanyahu, that they both at least want to start in President Trump's good graces. Whether that equals a peace deal, you know, obviously we have a long way to see if that's true.

And as you guys were pointing out, this also requires a lot of time, a lot of attention at a point where President Trump's time and attention is certainly divided. He has a number of controversies playing out at home and we saw that sort of manifested in two of his top aides only staying through the Saudi Arabia portion of the trip. Steve Bannon and Reince Priebus went home after that because they need to do some strategic planning to try to get this administration back on track for when the president returns to the United States. So there are plenty of reasons to be skeptical that it's not going to be quite as simple as the ultimate deal maker may be hoping.

KING: That's an excellent point, Sara. Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon coming back. The budget rollout tomorrow among their priorities here.

This is the first time the president has taken an overseas trip. So it's the first time we've seen him in this role. And so we're learning. The first time his staff has gone through some of these things.

On this issue of the president's mess-up. He shared intelligence he was not supposed to share with the Russians. Everyone's trying to make it go away at the White House. They're trying to downplay the importance of the intelligence. You heard the prime minister there saying, don't worry about it, everything's going to be fine, we're going to move on past this. But we also learned from how this administration communicates. Listen. Here's Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Air Force One saying no big deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't know that there's anything to apologize for.

QUESTION: There are some concerned, though, that he did release intelligence without the Israeli's permission.

TILLERSON: I think to the extent the Israelis have any question or need clarification, I'm sure we're happy to provide that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now that's the secretary of state. Here's the United Nations ambassador from the United States, Nikki Haley, suggesting there is a little clean-up to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: So much of what I do at the United Nations is based on sensitive information. So much of what a lot of the cabinet members, what they do is based on sensitive information. So we're trying to reassure all of our counterparts that what they tell us is kept, trusted and valued and we will return the favor.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: A little bit of dissidence there?

KUCINICH: Yes. Well, one was a politician and one was not. Rex Tillerson was never in government before and Nikki Haley very much was. And maybe that has something to do with it. But this isn't the first time you've seen those two officials in particular take completely different tacks on an issue.

PETTYPIECE: And I think that's when we talk about, OK, so where do we go for Middle East peace process from here? Part of it's going to have to be, can we trust the United States with our information, with their word? Do we know where they stand? Are they credible? Are they flip- flopping all over the place? Are your views constantly evolving that you don't know where they stand and you don't know if you can trust them? You don't know if they're just telling you what you want to hear or what they really believe. That's going to be important for the parties on the other side of the table to have. And right now still leaders all across the world are trying to figure out this administration and what their views are and what they stand for and what they really believe in.

KING: All right, we'll talk -- do you have a point?

KNOX: Yes. Just concerning (ph) Jewish Americans and conservatives in Israel are beginning to wonder a little bit about Donald Trump or some of the reasons you raised earlier, not keeping his campaign promise to move the U.S. ambassador from Tel Aviv to Israel. Then this -- the intelligence snap (ph) kind of fits into that piece. Not accepting Netanyahu's request to accompany him to the Western Wall, which would have sent a powerful policy message since the United States doesn't recognize Israel's sovereignty over that part of Jerusalem. So they're starting to ask a lot of questions. And one of the things I want to see is how his comments today play out in the Israeli press tomorrow.

KING: Right.

Right, a rocky week last week. More favorable press in the day or two before the visit. You make a key point there. And, again, if the president can move the ball when it comes to peace, a lot of these slides -- political sides now might be forgiven. But, otherwise, people might keep score. We'll continue the conversation.

[12:15:12] Up next, pressure but no lecture. The president calls on Arab and Muslim leaders to do more to fight extremism.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Welcome back.

President Trump this hour stop two in Israel of his first overseas trip. He's due to have dinner with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And perhaps statements from the two leaders before that dinner. We're keeping an eye on that. We'll bring it to you if they speak.

Stop one was in Saudi Arabia. A very different tone on Islam was a big highlight of that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Islam hates us. There's something -- there's something there that -- that's a tremendous hatred there.

[12:20:04] This is not a battle between different faiths, different sects or different civilizations. This is a battle between barbaric criminals who seek to obliterate human life and decent people, all in the name of religion. People that want to protect life and want to protect their religion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Big change in tone there. Another source of debate, the president's decision at that summit of 50 plus nations in Saudi Arabia to play down political and human rights abuses across much of the Arab and Muslim world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are not here to lecture. We are not here to tell other people how to live, what to do, who to be, or how to worship. Instead we are here to offer partnership based on shared interests and values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: It's not an approach that I entirely agree with. They believe that on the countries that are cooperative with us on other issues, like Saudi Arabia, like Egypt, we should privately confront them on the issues of human rights, that you'll get a better result that way. Now, I have a different take on it. I believe human rights are important for us to speak about publicly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: What did we learn yesterday? Again, that was stop one. The president made a conscious decision to go to Saudi Arabia first to have a very different tone from candidate Trump on the subject of Islam and the Islam -- the possibility that these Arab and Muslim nations could come join him, as he said, in a fight. What was your -- what's your biggest take away from yesterday?

KUCINICH: The tone is different but the policy isn't. The president is still fighting the travel ban legally in this country. You can talk all you want, but there's a lot of damage that's been done with Muslims in this country that that speech did not fix.

KING: Does it -- does the travel ban debate here affect, though, the willingness of those countries, particularly Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, others in the region, Egypt, to do what the president asked them to do, to step up their own efforts to fight extremism, to step up their own efforts essentially to not teach in their own religious schools some of the things that are taught, especially the Saudis who support this all around the world?

KNOX: I think that the point though is that most of the strategically important countries that you rattled off are not part of the travel ban. They weren't affected by the travel ban. And so they've come out -- some of them have come out and said like, you know, this is not a -- this is -- this isn't a big deal.

PETTYPIECE: Yes, we're not on the list.

KUCINICH: But rhetorically.

KNOX: Well, no, I mean I think it does modestly. But, remember, I mean they're -- they're -- they view, especially the Saudis, who have been -- have been rivals with Iran for (INAUDIBLE) over the region for decades, they view that -- they view the -- they view ISIS and they view Iran's rise as much more important, much more -- much bigger priorities than this other stuff. You never hear any more about the 9/11 lawsuit bill, right? The Saudis have come out and said that this was a horrible blow to bilateral relations. You never hear about that anymore.

I do think that with Iran and with ISIS, I think they've found sort of the right strategic leverage over a lot of these countries.

BENDER: The tone I think is an important point. And we've seen Trump now -- I mean it's just a total change in tone from the campaign and how he deals with now a host of foreign leaders. We saw him -- the Mexican foreign minister actually in the Oval Office toning down Trump's speech, a call from Justin Trudeau got him off of his plan to rewrite NAFTA, and now a majorly different tone in Saudi Arabia. And, to be fair to the president, one that is getting him rave reviews in his first couple days.

KING: Right. Good reviews in the first couple of days. The question is what's the situation six months from now and a year from now? The president -- I want you to listen to the president's rhetoric here about asking these Muslim and Arab nations, drive them out. And in saying to drive them out, he also said he needed them to do more to crack down on terror financing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A better future is only possible if your nations drive out the terrorists and drive out the extremists. Drive them out. Drive them out of your places of worship. Drive them out of your communities. Drive them out of your holy land. And drive them out of this earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: A pretty strong message from the president there, essentially saying I'll help you, but you have to take the lead here to these countries. And that's where, again, you know, we'll focus on the different tone in the early days because it is his first trip. But six months or a year from now you focus on, did he get results. PETTYPIECE: And that strong message, but easier said than done. And,

you know, for a lot of these countries who, you know, say, all right, well, you do it. You know, we've been trying to do this, you know, for years now. So -- and also, too, sticking to the point of, is that message going to stay consistent. Is he really going to keep on them or -- I mean we're all focused on the Middle East for the next day or so. And then what happens at home?

KING: Right.

PETTYPIECE: The White House only has so much bandwidth. North Korea, you know, is on the front. Not to mention the domestic issues going on at home with health care, tax reform, oh, and a Russia investigation. So it's all great that we're paying attention and talking about the Middle East now and the president says he's going to be there and back them up. Is the White House going to have the bandwidth going forward with everything else happening in the world to continue this beyond a day or two?

[12:25:18] KING: Right. And I played it at the top of the program, about Wilbur Ross, the commerce secretary, saying not a single hint of a protester anywhere in Saudi Arabia. I guess maybe he doesn't get out much to that part of the world.

PETTYPIECE: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) there.

KING: They're not allowed to protest, sir. They go to jail for a very long time if they do that. And they're kept miles and miles and miles away from their leadership. But, that's OK.

Up next, pleading the fifth. Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn plans to defy a subpoena from the Senate Intelligence Committee. More on that. And, again, we're waiting to see President Trump and Prime Minister --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Welcome back.

Again, keeping our eyes on the president, who's in Israel this hour for a dinner with the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. We'll take you there live when we see the two leaders.

[12:29:46] Back home here, more proof presidential problems don't go away when the president leaves the country. We just learned moments ago former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn plans to defy a subpoena from the Senate Intelligence Committee. A source telling CNN, Flynn won't answer questions and won't provide documents related to the Russian interference in the U.S. presidential election last year and questions of suspected collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.