Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Senate GOP Post Health Care Bill; Senate Bill Cuts Medicaid & Taxes; Protesters Outside McConnell's Office; Pelosi Catches Heat. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 22, 2017 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Is not in the Senate's health care plan that was just unveiled. "Inside Politics" with John King starts right now.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Kate.

And welcome to "Inside Politics." I'm John King. Thanks for sharing this busy news day with us. A very busy hour ahead. CNN has exclusive and important new details about the president's conversations with intelligence chiefs about the Russia election meddling investigation.

And Nancy Pelosi, just moments ago, responding to Democratic critics who say it's time for her to go.

But we begin with another major breaking news story unfolding as we speak this hour. Senate Republicans just unveiled their Obamacare replacement plan and admit they are still short the votes to pass it. Conservatives aren't thrilled because the plan falls way short of a full Obamacare repeal. Moderates are mad because, among other things, the Senate plan slashes Medicaid funding for the elderly and the poor and, at the moment, contains no money to help with the opioid epidemic. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell calls this new framework a good start. And while he says changes are welcome, he wants to fast track a final vote next week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: Through dozens of meetings open to each and every member of the conference, we've had the opportunity to offer and consider many ideas for confronting the Obamacare status quo. We debated many policy proposals. We considered many different viewpoints. In the end, we found that we share many ideas about what needs to be achieved and how we can achieve it.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), MINORITY LEADER: The president said the House bill was mean. The Senate bill may be meaner. The Senate Republican health care bill is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Only this wolf has even sharper teeth than the House bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: As you can see, the bill just out a little more than an hour and the partisan debate's starting very quickly. With us to share their reporting and their insights, CNN's Dana Bash, Michael Shear of "The New York Times," Karoun Demirjian of "The Washington Post," and CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson.

To Capitol Hill first, though, and CNN's Phil Mattingly.

Phil, the secret negotiations are over. The bill is now public. What are the biggest policy headlines, especially when you look at the Senate proposal and compare it to the House bill?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I think you have to view it through both the policy and what it means to that effort to try and get 50 votes, as you were talking about.

Look, no question about it, on Medicaid you had a lot of expansion state senators who were very concerned about what the House bill did. They got a little bit of a win here. There's a more gradual phase out of the Obamacare Medicaid expansion program. But those same senators voiced a lot of concerns about proposed extended cuts to Medicaid that had been out there from people like Senator Pat Toomey. Well, those are in the bill starting in 2025. So if you think about the House bill, John, which cuts, according to the CBO, $880 billion over ten years for Medicaid, these would be more dramatic cuts.

Now regulations, these were a huge issue in the House, obviously a very big issue for conservatives, as well. They took a different track. They didn't do the state waivers like the House bill did. They tried to use an existing Affordable Care Act waiver to give states more flexibility. The ability to get out of things like the essential health benefits, the top line ten benefits that are required in every Obamacare plan. So that could help them a little bit, but they don't touch pre-existing conditions, or at least they try not to. Something that essentially by extension they did in the House bill.

So those are kind of the key areas there. They repeal the taxes, they repeal the individual mandate, the employer mandate. Those were kind of always going to be in play here.

But I think the question remains, as they try and give a little bit here and a little bit there to the specific ideological polls of their conference, does it result in 50 votes? I can tell you, Senator Susan Collins, one of those key moderates, already put out a statement saying she has a number of concerns. Lisa Murkowski, another target here, was talking about how she really wants to read the bill. Both of those are key votes when it comes to abortion issues. Well, there's a defund of Planned Parenthood for a year in the bill, so that's an interesting element.

Rand Paul has had very serious concerns about the tax credit piece of the bill, the subsidy of the bill. He echoed those concerns after the briefing today.

And then you always have to keep an eye on the conservatives. Why does Ted Cruz, where do Mike Lee come down on the regulatory issue right now? We don't have immediate answers there. But as you noted, it's very clear they don't have 50 votes yet. There is more work to do. The question, John, becomes, do they do that work via amendment, do they do that work in a manager's amendment, or do they just kind of browbeat everybody to get there? It's an open question right now if they get there at all, but certainly it's going to be a lot of work ahead, and, most notably, a CBO score to take a look at in the coming days.

KING: And we know what the CBO score did to the debate on the House side.

Phil Mattingly, keep wandering those halls. If you find anybody who's relevant in this debate, get react, give us a ring, we'll get you back on TV.

Let's come into the room now. And as we do, we're going to talk about the delicious politics, the partisan divide, the tough internal Republican divide here in Washington to get the 50 votes. But if you're watching at home, somewhere out there in America, you -- what does this do to me? Let's put up some of the details of this bill. This is what we know about it. And, remember, this is what the leader calls a discussion draft. This will change somewhat. The question is, how much can they change it?

We know the Senate bill would phase out the Medicaid expansion slower than the House bill. Medicaid expansion was a big part of Obamacare. The states had the flexibility to change the Medicaid program to help the poor, to help the elderly. But the Senate bill also has more dramatic cuts to Medicaid down the line than the House bill. There are tax credits to buy insurance. They're more generous. That's the heart President Trump has talked about. The tax credits are more generous than the House bill than the Senate, as Phil just noted. Planned Parenthood is defunded for one year. Forgive me, but that sounds like a copout. They're trying to get the moderate votes without -- they're not trying to -- they're trying to -- it's only one year. So they try to keep the moderate votes instead of take a stand one way or the other there.

[12:05:28] You spent a lot of time on Capitol Hill. You heard the majority leader. He understands. He wants to vote next week. He had to bring this bill public. But he doesn't have the votes yet.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He doesn't have the votes yet. And, you know, those of us who have covered Mitch McConnell and fights like this before always, you know, are -- the experiences that McConnell is obviously the best chess player probably on Capitol Hill. Now, for sure, maybe even in recent history. So the idea that he, as a masterful tactician, is putting this out there without knowing how it ends is pretty astonishing. But from my reporting, that is exactly -- that's true, there isn't a, you know, a secret plan procedurally to get this passed that he has right now. He certainly has hopes. He knows how to negotiate. He knows how to talk to his caucus. And that he's going to use those skills from now until the actual final vote. But he doesn't have them yet.

KING: Right, and h's going to need those skills. And as the leader ponders -- I just want to show you some video. This is democracy in action here. Health care's an incredibly personal debate. These are protesters outside the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's office. As we speak, they're still there. You're watching these photos. They're protesting the Medicaid cuts in the Republican health care bill.

What's interesting to me for this debate to go forward, 52-48 is the Republican margin in the Senate, meaning, they can lose two. If Mike Pence breaks the tie, they can afford to lose two. What happens? They're going to try to fast-track these amendments. Mr. McConnell says all amendments are welcome. Don't criticize our secret process. Here's your chance.

But if a Republican, like Susan Collins, proposes an amendment, will the Democrats vote for it knowing that if it moves the bill and then you'd lose Mike Lee, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, you don't have the votes for the end. Can the Democrats, even though they weren't involved in this, actually now be involved in pushing it one way or the other that makes it unacceptable to 50?

KAROUN DEMIRJIAN, "TH WASHINGTON POST": I think it really depends on which Democrat you're talking about. Are they up for re-election in 2018? And it's an issue that they have really staked their reputation on already.

A really interesting one that's going is going to be the opioid -- the opioid legislation that doesn't exist yet. But odds are somebody's going to try to insert that into the bill. And will senators, Democratic senators, from places like West Virginia, from places that are hit hard by this crisis, really be able to say, well, I didn't do it because there is procedurally a more, bigger gain here down the line that I couldn't vote for. That's difficult to translate to people at home when it's an issue that you've said you care about, that they care about. So you'll probably see a splintering of the Democratic caucus on a lot of these different amendments when it hits issues like that.

KING: But the key test here is for the Republicans. This has been, since long before Donald Trump came on the scene as a Republican politician, this has been their mantra, this is their dividing line. It was huge in the 2010 elections, the 2012 elections, the 2014 elections, the 2016 elections. I suspect on the flip side it will be in 2018, 2020, 2022, and beyond.

But I want you to listen to just a little bit of sound from President Trump just moments ago. He's at a big meeting at the White House and this issue came up. He didn't say much, but what he said is interesting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How do you like the health care, folks?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you like the health care?

TRUMP: It's going to be very good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE). TRUMP: Little negotiation, but it's going to be very good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Interesting in the sense that they do need to negotiate in the Senate. To get the 50 votes, they need to negotiate. But one of the things Mitch McConnell has begged the white House -- and I'm told, told the president directly, and has told people on the staff, please stay out of this. Please stay out. Let us do the Senate -- lets us do the Senate business because, remember, when the first House bill came out, Speaker Ryan told the White House, just leave me alone. This is the best I can do. And the president tweeted out, now negotiations.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, and, you know, they got essentially seven days, I mean, or a week or so to get this done. Maybe there's a short enough time where the president can stay mum on this and won't do things that we know he's done in terms of the House bill, calling -- calling it mean. Because we do know Mitch McConnell wants to get this done. I mean they want to be able to go back to their districts and say that they've gotten this done, the repeal part, which real conservative people want to see the repeal part of it, and then the replace part of it. But they've got so much work to do here in terms of this bill. And then the CBO score is essentially going to reset the conversation on this. And we do know that Trump --

KING: How much does it cost? How many people lost their health insurance? What's it do to the deficit? Right.

HENDERSON: How much does it cost? How many people -- and -- and that's what Trump is going to be listening to, right? I mean he's been briefed a bit on this. His staffers have been briefed on this. But, I mean, from what we know about this president, a lot of sort of the branding of it is going to come from cable news, and he's going to be listening to that.

KING: Can they, with a straight face, call this Obamacare repeal?

MICHAEL SHEAR, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, see that's the -- the striking thing about this.

KING: It's Obamacare replace or Obamacare fix.

HENDERSON: Lite or, yes.

KING: It does not rip all the roots of Obamacare out.

SHEAR: No, and, in fact, and, in fact, thinks about what it -- what -- now that we have both sides of Capitol Hill weighing in on kind of what they -- what the Republicans want to see, they -- it essentially buys in to the basic underlying thought of how Obama and the Democrats decided to structure this. I mean whether you phase out Medicaid a little bit faster, a little bit slower, whether you do one thing with the subsidies or the other thing with the subsidies, you're still using government money to subsidize people so that they can -- more people can buy health insurance. I mean that is -- that is not the kind of repeal that certainly, you know, many of the real sort of hard cores, the Mike Lees of the world, sort of expected. They wanted. And whether or not the Republican kind of people on the ground, their supporters will think this is repeal --

[12:10:42] KING: You are -- you are getting rid of the Obamacare taxes. You are getting rid of the employer mandate. You are getting rid of the individual mandate. Those are three of the big pillars of Obamacare. So you're taking out -- Mitch McConnell once said, what, root and all and (INAUDIBLE). You know, you're pulling out some of the roots, but you're leaving some.

HENDERSON: Yes. Yes. Some leaves around --

SHEAR: Yes.

HENDERSON: But the basic idea that government has a role to play in providing people health care, I mean that remains intact. It's a victory in some ways, as you said, for Democrats and Obama.

BASH: It does. And it's the same pickle that Republicans in the House found themselves in. And that is because all of them, and the president of the United States, promised over and over again the pre- existing condition, the ban, not allowing insurance companies to not take you if you have a pre-existing condition, that's not going anywhere. Well, if you start with that, that is -- that is one of the core roots keeping up the Obamacare tree.

KING: Right.

BASH: And if you don't repeal that and you have to find ways to work around it, which is why you could never formally fully take Obamacare away and put a completely Republican kind of -- a piece of legislation that is full of Republican ideals and philosophies.

KING: Yes. It's -- several -- go ahead.

DEMIRJIAN: It's taking basically the philosophical core of Obama, though, and preserving that. And it's not preserving the whole funding structure and the set-up structure. The main --

HENDERSON: The mandate.

DEMIRJIAN: It didn't ever fully work financially --

BASH: Right.

SHEAR: Not great (ph).

DEMIRJIAN: But it could have, you know, maybe with some fixes gone down that line. When you get rid of the individual mandates, you don't have enough people buying into the system, then you can't cover as many things as you wanted to cover in the system. And then when you are kind of peeling back on the money that's there for Medicaid, you're not catching people that are falling out of the system. So it doesn't hang together the way it did around that central, you know, trunk of the tree, I guess, but branches are, you know, (INAUDIBLE) -- KING: We've got more on this throughout the hour as we continue it. But, remember, as Mitch McConnell tries to keep all but two votes, it's very difficult. We'll get back to the politics and we'll hear Republican governors weigh in too. They care about the Medicaid part of it for this vote.

Ahead, though, we shift gears a bit. Nancy Pelosi rebuts her critics and vows to stay as the Democratic leader. Next, a CNN exclusive.

Also, two intelligence chiefs tell investigators President Trump made them uncomfortable asking for help in the Russia meddling investigation.

As we go to break, pause for a second here. Watch a hero. Capitol Police Officer Krysta Griner, just released from the hospital, she's at (INAUDIBLE) throwing out the first pitch at last night's congressional women's softball game. Amen to that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:17:29] KING: Welcome back.

More on the crackling health care debate in just a moment. But let's turn now to another big political drama here in Washington with huge implications for the Democratic Party across America. Just a short time ago, the House Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi, delivered a feisty rejoint (ph) to the voices in her own caucus suggesting the party's losing streak in special elections this year means it's time for Pelosi to step aside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: As far as some of the enthusiasm in my caucus, I always listen to my members. I respect the ambition that exists in any caucus. It's a part of our life. When it comes to personal ambition (ph) and having fun on TV, have your fun. I love the arena. I thrive on competition. And I welcome the discussion. But I am honored by the support.

Every action has a reaction. I try to say that to them. Every attack provokes a massive reaction. We always have this discussion. One is one, two is a couple, three is a few, some, some. But I feel very confident in the support that I have in my caucus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: If you like -- if you like raw politics, this is as raw as it gets. She didn't get where she is without being a street fighter.

DEMIRJIAN: Oh, no. Right.

KING: She did not get where she is without being a street fighter. And we've seen this movie before. And people say it's time to go, it's time for the next generation. If you listen to that, go on TV and have your fun. She's essentially mocking --

DEMIRJIAN: Shame.

HENDERSON: Yes.

KING: She's mocking the critics. Every action has a reaction.

DEMIRJIAN: Yes.

HENDERSON: Yes.

KING: She keeps good notes. She's old school. She keeps the index cards, as you well know.

BASH: Oh, yes. (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Does she mean, check your committee assignments?

SHEAR: I --

BASH: She means -- I -- or more.

KING: Check your fundraising?

(CROSS TALK)

BASH: Look, some of these people who are challenging her are new, and they haven't been around. When you challenge Nancy Pelosi and you lose, and you see what happens to you.

Having said that, you know, good for them that they feel they have the -- feel that they have the latitude in their districts or whatever it is that they feel that they have the latitude to do to say this.

Having said that, I personally think that the idea of picking on Nancy Pelosi for all that is wrong with the Democrats is so misguided. Nancy Pelosi didn't tell Hillary Clinton not to go to Michigan and Wisconsin. Nancy Pelosi didn't tell Hillary Clinton not to have a good economic message. I know we're past that and we're talking about the House races, but it's so much broader than one person. Could there -- should there be new blood in addition to Nancy Pelosi? Of course. But I have not seen Paul Ryan keep his caucus together the way Nancy Pelosi has.

[12:20:09] KING: Has. But there is the question -- and if you look at -- if you look at the House map, the Democrats are largely confined to the coast now. There are spots throughout the rest of the country, but the Democrats are largely confined to the two coasts. Part of it is, how do you come up with compelling candidates in the Midwest, in the south?

BASH: Exactly.

KING: Can you do that? But among the critics, she says, go on TV and have fun. Here's Kathleen Rice, a relatively new member from the state of New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. KATHLEEN RICE (D), NEW YORK: We need a winning strategy, and I think the first step to getting to a winning strategy is a change in leadership. If you were talking about any sports team that was losing time and time again, you -- changes would be made, right? The CEO would be out. The coach would be out. And there would be a new strategy put in place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: On the surface, that sounds fine. You're right, you know, you don't fire all the players on a baseball team. The manager gets fired when the team's not playing right. And the Democrats lost the majority in 2010, and Nancy Pelosi has said, give me another cycle, give me another cycle. Her side says nobody can raise the money like Nancy Pelosi, and that part's true. And there's also, again, the critics say, look at the ads run in Georgia's six in the Jon Ossoff race. You know, Nancy -- just as President Trump is a rallying cry for Democrats, Nancy Pelosi is a rallying cry for Republicans, without a doubt.

BASH: Yes. Right.

HENDERSON: Yes. I mean whoever would be in the position would likely be a rallying cry for Democrats. Obama, obviously, was a rallying cry for Republicans. You know, I mean, I guess the question -- and this comes up periodically, right, every time there's a loss where Nancy Pelosi's the speaker or the minority leader. But the question is always who, right? I mean Kathleen Rice there, very charismatic, an up-and-coming star, people like Tim Ryan, I mean are they in the position, do they kind of have the folks behind them so they can rise through the ranks and become in the leadership?

KING: And listen again --

HENDERSON: (INAUDIBLE).

KING: And listen again just as a student of politics you think, you know, she's been at this a long time. Maybe (INAUDIBLE). Maybe she doesn't get into it. Listen to Nancy Pelosi addressing the question of, well, you know, you have been around a long time. What about the next generation?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: We're paving a way for a new generation of leadership. And I -- again, I respect any opinion that my members have, but my decision about how long I stay is not up to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Ouch. A little bit of ouch at the end. And just -- just as we finish the conversation, let me bring this into it, an endorsement that Nancy Pelosi did not want. The president of the United States tweeting just this morning, "I certainly hope the Democrats do not force Nancy P. out. That would be very bad for the Republican Party. And please let crying Chuck stay, too." The president moving on to the Senate side, as well.

But, again, to -- her feistiness, you know, whether you like her not, as someone who rose up through the Democratic ranks at a time when there were not a lot of women in power in this town, and has proven to be a good organizer, is this -- you've been through this several times.

BASH: Yes.

KING: Is this deeper than before? Is it the same as before? Are there more of them than before?

BASH: There are a few more of them, but it -- I think it's the -- it's -- the danger for her is that that it's the accumulation of times that this happened, right? But then the open question is exactly what you said, Nia, if not her, who?

HENDERSON: Right.

DEMIRJIAN: Right.

SHEAR: Well, but I also am a little skeptical, John, what you said about the fundraising rate. The sort of old-fashioned way of thinking about this is that she's the sort of speaker or the leader needs to be there to raise all this money.

KING: Right.

SHEAR: Ossoff raised a lot of money. And a lot of that came online.

KING: The Democratic base online, you're right.

SHEAR: And -- and that Democratic base, starting with Bernie, maybe, you know, before that somewhat with Obama, I mean it's a -- it's a different kind of world that we live in and there is going to come a point --

BASH: And with that money he didn't win.

SHEAR: And with that money, he didn't win. But there is going to come a point where people are going to look at whoever's in that leader chair and say, you know, maybe it's not exactly as important as it was. Somebody else can do it.

DEMIRJIAN: There's another issue here at play too, which is that each of these people that's wanting to come up and, you know, replace -- be the next generation that replaces Pelosi represents a faction of the Democratic Party but has not yet been in position where they have to balance all the interest and competing philosophies of everybody in it.

KING: Right.

DEMIRJIAN: We saw in the presidential campaign last year, this is a pretty split party. They don't actually think as one. But very time Pelosi comes out and says, OK, look, maybe we don't make the abortion issue front and center, like just, you know, test ballooning things like that.

KING: Right.

DEMIRJIAN: She gets excoriated by people for saying, well, how about this to expand the tent, how about this to bring in people that we've lost, the conservative party, who are, you know, the one issues, you know, don't necessarily represent what we stand for being for the working class. And, you know, you can't -- she maybe isn't addressing things that people want quite well, but nobody else is in a position where they're trying to actually say, well, let me reach across this wide chasm that exists between me and the other half of the Democratic Party and figure out how to balance it.

KING: Someday, I suspect not in the relatively near future, some day, three, four, five years down the line, someone else will have the job and they'll understand how hard it is.

Up next, more details on that Senate Republican health care plan and the very dicey politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:28:52] KING: Welcome back.

More now on this town's big, breaking news, the just-released Senate Republican health care plan. I want to show you a live picture from Capitol Hill. Key Democrats getting ready to respond. You see the sign there, "mean." That is their one-word spin on the Senate Republican health care plan. They say it's just as mean if not meaner than the House Republican health care plan. We'll hear from key Democrats in just a moment.

Back here in the room, though, the big, immediate question is, can Mitch McConnell get 50 Republicans. He has 52. Can he keep 50 so that Mike Pence, next week presumably, can break the tie?

Let's look at some of the key Republicans to watch. On the conservative side, you have these conservatives, Mike Lee, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz. On the Tea Party caucus, if you will, in the United States Senate, they have said they won't vote for anything that is not complete and total repeal of Obamacare. Well, the Senate draft is released an hour or so ago is not full and complete repeal of Obamacare. So, will they blink? Will they get concessions? We will see.

On the flip side of that, you have these more moderate members, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, Rob Portman of Ohio, Shelly Moore Capito of West Virginia, Dean Heller of Nevada. They have similar concerns on some issues, different concerns on others. Rob Portman, for example, has been leading the charge for drug treatment money because of the opioid crisis in his state. Shelly Moore Capito from West Virginia, one of the big Medicaid expansion states, to help poor people, to help the elderly people.

[12:30:05] Dean Heller of Nevada, a relative newcomer in the Senate, just put out a statement. "At first glance, I have serious concerns about the bill's impact on the Nevadans who depend on Medicaid.