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Inside Politics

Trump Praises Law Enforcement; Russia Investigation Stokes Anger; Pardoning Flynn; Tillerson on North Korea; Russia's Help with North Korea; Republicans scramble on Tax Vote. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 15, 2017 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:12] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thank you for sharing your day with us.

Two indictments and two plea deals today, but President Trump says the Russia investigations are a waste of time and that he is a victim of FBI and Justice Department bias.

Plus, a big stage today for the secretary of state, but new rumblings, his embrace of talks with North Korea has his boss looking at a new top diplomat.

And, this is a defining hour for Republican tax cut hopes. The deadline to sign onto a compromise plan is right now after a rush of last minute deal-making.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have seen it. I think it's going to do very, very well. I think that we are going to be in a position to pass something as early as next week, which will be monumental.

(INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: I think they'll be greatly. They're great people. They want to see it done. I know them very well. I know how they feel. These are great people and they want to see it done and they want to see it done properly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We begin the hour with the president and his two very different takes on law and order. High praise to local law enforcement this morning as the president spoke to police officers and sheriffs graduating from a federal training program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You represent the best of America. And you leave us with a debt we can never hope to repay.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: But listen here to the president's take a bit earlier on the FBI, which the president recently said, of course, is in tatters and which runs the academy at which the president spoke.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, it's a shame what's happened with the FBI, but we're going rebuild the FBI. It will be bigger and better than ever.

When you look at what's gone on with the FBI and with the Justice Department, people are very, very angry.

KING: The president's beef, he wants you to believe, the FBI and the Justice Department went easy on Hillary Clinton but are hell-bent on turning up dirt on him. The Russia investigations, of course, are the source of his anger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is absolutely no collusion. That has been proven. When you look at the committees, whether it's the Senate or the House, everybody walk -- my worst enemies, they walk out, they say, there is no collusion, but we'll continue to look. They're spending millions and millions of dollars. There is absolutely no collusion. I didn't make a phone call to Russia. I have nothing to do with Russia. Everybody knows it. That was a Democrat hoax. It was an excuse for losing the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, the president is correct in saying there is, to date, no public evidence of campaign collusion with Russia. But the investigations are not over. And the most important one is making a mark.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller has secured two plea deals. One in which Trump's fired national security adviser admits lying to the FBI. And two indictments of former Trump campaign manager and his deputy. Far from nothing.

And while his broad-brush attacks on the FBI are a Fox News staple, two men appointed by this president to top law enforcement jobs say they are unfair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: The FBI that I see is people -- decent people committed to the highest principals of integrity and professionalism and respect. The FBI that I see is respected and appreciated.

ROD ROSENSTEIN, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: I believe some of the finest people that I know are agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: With us to share their reporting and their insights, Margaret Talev of "Bloomberg News," CNN's Jeff Zeleny, Michael Warren of "The Weekly Standard," and "Politico's" Seung Min Kim.

What do we make of the president this morning as he leaves -- it's his choice to stop and talk to reporters. He knows where he's going. These are not FBI agents that are graduating. They're law enforcement people from around the country in the FBI Academy. But he stopped to make the point essentially the FBI and the Justice Department are out to get me. That's what the president's trying to say there.

MARGARET TALEV, "BLOOMBERG NEWS": Yes. You know this reminds me in many ways of his second day on the job where after weeks and weeks of criticizing the CIA and the intelligence community then went to the CIA to give a speech surrounded by people who had volunteered to go there, many of whom were fans of the president's early on, and then it essentially became a political speech there at that Wall of Stars Memorial.

And while some of the details are differently in this case, it seems pretty clear that he is, a, wants to express his frustrations with, of course, this investigation, b, an effort to discredit sort of preemptively anything that might come out negatively and, c, put everyone on edge who's at the agency right now.

But, you know, just, to date, the account that we saw him give there at the Marine One departure really doesn't match publicly what you're hearing on the ground from the rank and file of the FBI.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's so interesting that really nothing has changed in a year. At the end of this year here, I mean he sounds very much like before. There are so many advisers and Republican in this town who want him to succeed, who wish he simply would have acknowledged Russian meddling and said, you know, we're going to have this looked at. Set that over here and keep going on with other things.

[12:05:11] He should have been talking about tax reform there and the other agenda. But, you know, talking about there is no collusion, that's obviously on his mind.

He mentioned Fox News and the thing. I mean that's exactly what he has been listening to for hours and hours a day. And that is the drumbeat here of, that there are very angry people at the FBI.

I mean the reality is, there are very -- a lot of Democrats, Hillary Clinton among them, who are angry at the FBI. They think they were mistreated here.

So, at the end of the year, the president is still talking about this. It's under his skin. He can't move beyond that.

KING: And there are some legitimate questions here. Let's be fair.

ZELENY: Sure. KING: Chuck Grassley, the senator from Iowa, a Republican, released the -- essentially the versions of the Comey memo on Hillary Clinton. And if you see the original memo in the last (INAUDIBLE), there were some edits. It's perfectly fair for a Trump supporter, or any Republican, to say, how did you go from a to z. What was the process? What was the evidence? Was this done for political reasons or who influences? That's a fair question.

We've seen these text messages in recent days from some of the investigators who worked on the Clinton case and then worked early on in the Trump case texting back and forth to friends, colleagues, partners, politically. Stuff that they should know, if you take that job, you're in that position of responsibility, it doesn't matter that it's your personal phone, you're just -- it is stupid -- stupid to text about politics, political opinions.

Some of those were anti-Trump. Now, I find it just -- I don't have -- somebody help me with the word. You work on Capitol Hill. In these texts, the same agents who said these bad things about President Trump, which he never should have said in a text because he's an FBI agent (INAUDIBLE), also trashed Bernie Sanders, also trashed Chelsea Clinton. Well, how come the Democrats didn't bring that in the hearing the other day to say, yes, this guy is irresponsible, but on a bipartisan basis.

SEUNG MIN KIM, "POLITICO": And that's why the narrative at the -- where we saw the initial part of the text messages where this agent was referring to Trump as a candidate, as an idiot, that's what has fueled this week on Capitol Hill more skepticism about the Mueller probe.

We were talking to Senator John Cornyn this week, the powerful second ranking Senate Republican, and he said, look, I mean, he seems to still have confidence in Mueller himself. But he's saying, look, some of the people on his team -- pointing to the text messages, saying, maybe showing a little bias here and raising a little bit of concern about that probe itself. So it's only giving -- I mean with the limited information that we're getting at these times, it's only giving ammunition to Republicans to cast even more skepticism on the special counsel's probe.

MICHAEL WARREN, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": Right, and I think you're seeing that message in conservative media. Obviously Fox News, but other conservative outlets, riders, sort of casting doubt on the FBI and on Mueller's credibility here.

What's different I think and what's sort of odd and jarring is to hear it coming from the president himself, while people underneath him are under investigation, people around him, people underneath him on the campaign and even at the White House have -- are now part of this criminal probe.

I think there was something that happened this week -- we played a little bit from Rob Rosenstein, his testimony in Congress, something that maybe didn't get enough attention this week in Washington is, he was asked by Lamar Smith, Republican from Texas, in that -- in that hearing if Mueller had asked to expand the investigation at all. This is this whole idea -- I think this idea that Mueller has gone beyond where he should have gone.

It was really interesting. Rod Rosenstein, deputy attorney general, appointed by a Republican president and a Republican administration, he's a Republican himself. He didn't give a direct answer to that question but did say, I talked to Robert Mueller or his staff every single day. I know what they're doing.

It was a moment that told me something we have always known but have never heard publicly, which is that, if Mueller is going to go away, Trump is going to have to go through Rod Rosenstein.

KING: Right.

WARREN: I think that's a very important thing as we think about where he's going.

KING: That's a very critical point as we get near the end of the year, and where everyone's asking, how long is this going to go on? Rod Rosenstein, as you said, I talk to them all the time. I'm comfortable with what they're doing. If I had a problem with it, I would deal with it.

WARREN: That's right.

KING: That was a -- the Republicans were trying to get him to question Mueller's integrity or question Mueller's scope and he would not go there.

I will pause at this and -- because these text messages do raise questions. The Democrats would just want to throw them all away. No, they do raise some questions. But Bob Mueller fired the guy the day he was told about the text messages. How long did Michael Flynn work at the White House after the president was told that Michael Flynn at least had lied to the vice president, and maybe had lied to the FBI as well? Just a question.

And this morning, as he left the White House, the president was asked, would you pardon General Flynn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want to talk about a pardon for Michael Flynn yet. We'll see what happens. Let's see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So this is -- you were using this term in the makeup room, this is Trump splaining (ph). In the (INAUDIBLE). In the (INAUDIBLE), no. The president always says, we'll see what happens. Let's see. Those are turns of phrase, words he uses sometimes as sort of his segues and to move things along. So you can say that's just the way he talks. Or you can say, yet? We'll see what happens? Let's see. [12:10:02] ZELENY: I mean there's no full (ph) stop, we're not going

to talk about pardons. But I think it was probably a very honest answer.

WARREN: Yes.

ZELENY: He doesn't know what is going to come of this. I mean how much is Michael Flynn, General Flynn, cooperating right now with Bob Mueller. That probably will determine the fact that he gets a pardon or not. But the yet, you know, it was very Trumpian --

KING: He -- I hate to interrupt. I hate to interrupt.

ZELENY: Pretty honest.

KING: He was charge -- he admitted lying four times. He was only charged with one of those lies.

ZELENY: Right.

KING: And it was about a limited thing. We know they're looking at General Flynn. He's cooperating. Bob Mueller would not give him that deal.

ZELENY: (INAUDIBLE).

KING: I didn't mean to interrupt.

ZELENY: No, absolutely is. So I think the president was being, you know, pretty brutally honest there. A lot of his aides and others would have wished he probably had a -- not said a "yet" there. But, you know, I think it was true.

KING: There is not -- there is not a conceivable way that while this investigation's still going on that he can pardon Michael Flynn, is there?

WARREN: I don't -- I don't think so.

ZELENY: Not in the middle of it. It would be hard --

WARREN: No, I don't think so. I think -- I think it would be in the same way of firing Mueller going through Rod Rosenstein. It would just -- it would just be -- it would -- he's in a corner right now and he doesn't really have a lot of options. I think his consideration of a pardon for Mike Flynn is, as you say, Jeff, just kind of thinking out loud. If he really thought about it more and went down that path, he would see that that opens a whole lot more issues. You know, he -- Michael Flynn doesn't get the Fifth Amendment plea that he gets -- he's able to say, you know, I --

TALEV: Well, there would be no reason for him to --

ZELENY: And in fairness, he was asked the question, too.

KING: Right. ZELENY: He didn't bring it up on his own. He was asked the --

KING: He didn't -- he didn't bring it up on his own.

ZELENY: Right.

KING: To your point he could say, I'm not talking about that, period, period.

TALEV: But, you know, as a side note, these departures on Marine One have become so interesting. They really have become a favored way for him to communicate what he's thinking of the day. And most other presidents would shy very far away from it. You've got the chopper blades going. It's very loud. It's an impossible situation to control. Nobody can hear anybody. And there's the imperative to get on the helicopter, which is waiting for you. And it has been, in those moments, that we've had some of the most interesting revelations in the last couple of months.

KING: Well, it's always nice to hear from the president. His staff may not --

TALEV: Absolutely.

KING: His staff may not thing so.

Up next, the White House and the State Department struggled to get on the same page about North Korea. Could it costs the secretary of state his job?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:16] KING: We're waiting to hear Secretary of State Rex Tillerson at any moment. You see the ambassador from South Korea there speaking to the United Nations Security Council. And the press conference from Secretary Tillerson will be there at the United Nations. He is there for a press for stronger global condemnation and stronger global isolation of North Korea.

The timing, more than a little interesting. The White House has twice publicly contradicted Secretary Tillerson this week about whether it is willing to negotiate with North Korea. And White House officials quoted again today -- it's "The Washington Post" today -- saying the secretary isn't long for the job.

Here's the latest installment from Tillerson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have been clear that all options remain on the table in the defense of our nation. But we do not seek, nor do we want, war with North Korea. The United States will use all necessary measures to defend itself against North Korean aggression, but our hope remains that diplomacy will produce a resolution.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Vague reference there to diplomacy, producing a resolution.

Earlier this week at the Atlanta Counsel he talked about negotiations and he used the word no preconditions at one point. Then he said some conditions. But essentially what he said was, we will negotiate without North Korea committing first to completely denuclearizing. And the -- which has been the White House position, which was the previous administration's position too at the end. And the White House said no.

Where -- how can Secretary Tillerson sit at the United Nations Security Council at a moment the administration is critical to increasing global pressure when everybody else around the table has to wonder, does he speak for his boss?

TALEV: I mean that's certainly the conundrum. And I think if we're still having this conversation in February and if Rex Tillerson actually is staying on at any length next year, this is something that's going to need to get worked out as some of these policies play out.

But, in the meantime, I think we're in a holding pattern and Tillerson is perceiving a pace with what he believes the policy is or should be. And every now and then the White House, either through the president or through a spokesperson, is jumping in and offering statements that seem to counter or dial back what the secretary of state said.

KING: I mean it's Keystone Cops in any case, but this is a global national security crisis that most people think is at a very dicey, delicate point where miscalculation could lead to thousands of deaths and you have the White House and secretary of state not on the same page.

ZELENY: I mean it -- it almost seems strategic. Like, is the president trying to create some sort of dissidence around this, some confusion. I'm not sure that it is. But the one thing we haven't seen is the president himself directly contradicting the secretary of state, which we saw earlier this year.

KING: Right.

ZELENY: When that front page "New York Times" story came out, I believe it was on a weekend, the president, you know, directly fired a shot at his secretary of state on Twitter, of course. We've not seen that. We've seen a statement from the press secretary here.

So the reality is, we don't really know what the president thinks about this directly. But the secretary of state taking out the no preconditions, those two words were in his prepared remarks this morning. They were not in his speech. Is that intentional? Did he not just say them? I'm not sure. But this is something, as Margaret said, it's going to have to get worked out here. This circle is going to have to be squared.

KING: A quick pause in this conversation.

I just want to bring you this. This last block we showed you the president saying no plans yet, Flynn, we'll see what happens.

Ty Cobb, the White House attorney, saying in a statement, quote, there is no consideration being given to pardoning Michael Flynn at the White House.

So trying to clear up if anyone thought the language from the president was vague or ambiguous, Ty Cobb saying there is no consideration being given to pardoning Michael Flynn at the White House. Get that on the record.

Now back to this.

I want to read -- this is from "The Washington Post" this morning. And, again, as Jeff notes, the secretary of state was in China saying he wanted to have direct talks with North Korea. The president tweets, find something else to do, Rex. We're not doing that. Publically undermines him.

There have been stories that he's going to leave. There's stories that he's going to leave. And it's all in that story, he's going to get the boot. The White House says its plan to replace him. This is "The Washington Post" today, one White House official said, quote, he, Tillerson, had not learned his lesson from the last time when Trump publically rebuked his top diplomat on Twitter over the wisdom of talking to North Korea.

[12:20:12] A, dissidents, undermining, pick your term for it anyway. But, b, in the newspaper on the day the secretary of state is going to the United Nations Security Council in what they call an extraordinary session to make his case. Huh?

WARREN: I mean it looks like -- it looks like an effort to sort of get this message to Tillerson to hit the road. I mean it's kind of a --

KING: The guy used to have a TV show where he fired people.

WARREN: I know. But you -- you know, that's TV and not everything on TV is what -- reflects reality. And I think that this is a president who has actually a very difficult time --

KING: Right.

WARREN: Of sort of, you know, of pulling the trigger on trying to get people out that he wants to get out.

This seems to me -- it sounds to me like an effort to sort of say, listen, we have the story about how we want Mike Pompeo to replace you. We've got all of these contradictions that the president has made and the staff has made. Did he get the message yet? I don't know if he will, but that seems to be a part of this now week's long effort.

KIM: And (INAUDIBLE) like the State Department and the White House are not on the same page. I mean Republicans on Capitol Hill aren't always on the same page on this policy. You have Lindsey Graham of South Carolina who seems to be golfing with the president almost every weekend nowadays. He said earlier this week that he thinks the chance of a military strike on North Korea, 30 percent, goes as high as 70 percent if North Korea does conduct another nuclear test. We know he has the president's ear. But we also look at Tillerson and his major ally on The Hill, Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, who had, you know, a couple months ago warned the president against knee-capping Tillerson's efforts at diplomacy. So that doesn't help things on Capitol Hill either.

TALEV: But, you know, I think we're also seeing these efforts with other countries continue apace. And the mixed messaging on the U.S. side, I think, may be a little bit confusing for some of those countries. So you've got the president on a call with the Russian leader. You've got the vice president who's going to be heading to the Mideast if this tax plan ever gets a vote. And when he's in Egypt, North Korea is going to be one of those issue that he discusses as Sisi, as well as policy with the Russians.

And so when you are trying to press China and Russia and partners in the Middle East to also get on board with your North Korea strategy, it is really important, at least privately, for those countries to know what your North Korea strategy is.

KING: Right. And to your point, the president did speak to President Putin yesterday. And this is the issue that came up. Listen to the president talking today about how North Korea factored into the conversation with Russia's Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But the primary point was to talk about North Korea, because we would love to have his help on North Korea. China's helping. Russia's not helping. We'd like to have Russia's help. Very important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Pretty candid there. You don't often hear the president say -- you know, criticize Russia. He thanked President Putin for saying nice things about the American economy, but right there, Russia is not helping. That's something you can talk about on Capitol Hill. A lot of the traditional Republican foreign policy people on Capitol Hill have been like, you know, at least like when they're not helping call them out, please.

KIM: Yes. Exactly. He should just (INAUDIBLE) that right there.

ZELENY: But this is why the whole -- the whole Russian investigation and the president's sort of awkward acknowledgement of this matters because the two leaders worked together in Da Nang, Vietnam. They were intended to have a meeting to talk about North Korea. It's why the president was there. They ended up really not having that meeting. This awkward sort of exchange or all these explanations at the time. A month ago, they should have been talking about North Korea. So it is interesting that they're having a phone call. He does want Putin's help, but that's why this investigation is -- you

know, has real consequences. Whether he believes it or not. It's bled far beyond that. And in this relationship, you know, it's interesting.

KING: Well, we'll see what comes of that. And as I want to note, we're still waiting to see Secretary Tillerson. He's supposed to meet with reporters at the United Nations. If he does so, we'll take you there to hear what he has to say.

When we come back, though, Republicans expand the child tax credit in their final -- this is final -- tax bill. Will it be enough to bring Senator Marco Rubio on board, as Senate leaders scramble for votes?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:28:35] KING: Welcome back.

Here's a question. Yes or no, Marco Rubio. That is the question of the hour, or at least a big question of the hour, as Republicans pass a critical deadline in their push to pass a big tax cut plan by Christmas. To vote next week, the compromise deal negotiated by Republicans needed to be signed and sealed at noon today. Senator Rubio wanted a $2,000 refundable child tax credit as part of the deal and said he would be a "no" vote unless things moved his way.

CNN is now told the final deal increases that credit from $1,000 to $1,400. Is that enough to win over the Florida senator? And is that the only hurdle left?

CNN's Phil Mattingly is live on Capitol Hill with the latest on the last minute edits and the arm twisting.

Phil, we know the bill is done. The House Ways and Means Committee chair, Kevin Brady, just came out and talked to reporters. Is he optimistic?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he is, John. He told us that he believes that the Senate will have the votes to pass the conference report. The House will as well. We will see the conference report tonight at 5:30. It will be nice to dig through the 503 pages of tax legislation.

Look, I think it's an important point to make. The bill is close. There will be no more changes at any point. So any deal that was struck or any efforts to go towards Marco Rubio, they're done now. This needs to be enough.

Now, where does he currently stand? His office says he is not coming out in any way, shape, or form as a "yes" until they see the final legislative text. And at this point, they haven't. Several GOP leadership aides, senior GOP aides, saying they feel confident that that boost from $1,100 to $1,400 is getting him in that direction, should lock him in.

[12:30:04] Senator Rob Portman also came out of signing the conference report just a short while ago, said he believed people that had problems with the child tax credit should be happy with where things are.