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Bannon Strikes Deal To Be Interviewed By Mueller's Team; Trump's Heart Health in Focus After Doctor's Briefing; GOP Lawmakers Sound Off On Trump's Media Attacks; Flake Urges Congress To Act As Check On Trump; Ryan: "Pay Attention" To Local Wisconsin Race. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 17, 2018 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: -- the same work consequences from talking to Michael Wolff because the -- you know, his infuriated Republicans on that committee who should have been allies of his. He, you know, has gotten himself into potential illegal issues here. So it's very important.

Again, we do not know where this is going, but he used the words money laundering in an interview with Michael Wolff here. So he obviously has something to say here. We'll see exactly what questions they ask. That's what we don't know, what exactly they are asking him about what period of time. We just don't know that.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Trump allies, including the president's eldest son who set up that meeting at Trump Tower have said Steve Bannon doesn't know what he's talking about, Steve Bannon is just trying to get media attention now that he's gone. But he wasn't around -- and he wasn't around for the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower, but he's called that treasonous.

As you know, he tells Michael Wolff this is all about money laundering. Listen to Jim Himes here, he's a Democratic member of the Intelligence Committee who like (INAUDIBLE) the Republican. These guys don't agree on much and that partisan divide in that committee has become greater with every passing day.

Listen to him here making the case that he may not have been central to this at the beginning but he was around during a very important time and he better answer the questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM HIMES (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Let's just leave it at the fact that, you know, when it comes to whether there was, you know, inappropriate contact with the Russians, the transition period is pretty critical. And we were not allowed to ask -- or we were told that he would not answer questions about that period of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He went on to say, noting, that Hope Hicks, the communications director, very important player in an Air Force One phone call involving the president of the United States to his son Don Jr. about how to spin the news reports about that meeting, Russians connected to the Kremlin saying they had dirt on Hillary Clinton. They get a Trump Tower meeting with Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner, Hope Hicks there. The intermediary apparently during that call to president is also coming up.

And Congressman Himes went on to say, if the White House claimed privilege used with those witnesses too, I can tell you, all this comes to a grinding halt. Can they get away with it?

MARY KATHARINE HAM, SENIOR WRITER, THE FEDERALIST: For a while, but Mueller still exists, right. You get tossed to Mueller, and then he has to answer questions.

In this case, look, I think the significance is you're clearly getting closer to the actual president. Are you getting closer to collusion or to allegations of collusion? Unclear, because we don't know what he knows from the transition, and he was not around for that meeting.

And in fact, much of his statement was seemed like a pretty reckless speculation to Wolff. But the good news for the White House is that Bannon is a very careful man who keeps his words very clean and won't divulge anything he didn't mean to divulge during any of these discussions.

KING: But the frustration you see from the House members is, I get it. I get their frustration. We have legitimate inquiries, we should get our questions answered.

I also get the Bannon position and the other witnesses' position. Because if you're going to be interviewed by Bob Mueller, the special counsel, and I've live this, we talked here 20 years ago today, the Lewinsky story started is that, if you go on the record in one inquiry and say something different in the other inquiry, you're in trouble, even if you're not a factually substantive witness to -- whatever it is, you dig your hole.

PERRY BACON, SENIOR WRITER, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT: My question is, Trump sort of dismissed Bannon from his circle in a very dramatic way a few weeks ago. I mean, after the Wolff book came out. So I wonder if there was any loyalty there before, if that still exists because Bannon was not only on the campaign and the transition. He also probably knows -- he was around for the Comey firing too. We think that's being investigated in some ways too.

So, it's not -- Bannon probably knows a fair amount about a lot of different things involving Trump. And his incentive to be loyal to Trump at this point is probably somewhat lower than it was, you know, a few months ago.

KING: Policy allies. Well, General Michael Flynn who has cut a plea deal with the special counsel and very quiet, but we do know General Flynn is cooperating. We don't know what he's saying but we know he's cooperating.

Up next, guess this one. Aren't you glad your physicals aren't dissected on national television? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RONNY JACKSON, WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: The president's overall health is excellent. We discussed diet, exercise, and weight loss. He would benefit from a diet that is lower in fat and carbohydrates, and from a routine exercise regimen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:38:23] KING: Welcome back.

Although the White House doctor declares the president overall in excellent health after his physical, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta says he sees some red flags in the president's medical report. Dr. Gupta asked Dr. Ronny Jackson yesterday about the president's physical, zeroing in specifically on his heart exam.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So he does not have a heart disease.

Did he have a C.T. scan before that showed calcium in his coronary blood vessels?

JACKSON: He does. He had a -- so technically he has nonclinical (INAUDIBLE) coronary (INAUDIBLE). So that's been mentioned in previous physical exams he's had done. He had a coronary calcium score done in 2009 that was 34. He had a coronary calcium score done in 2013 that was 98.

And then we did get a calcium score from this one. I didn't mention it because I think it's -- it was clinically good information. It wasn't, you know -- but it was 133.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Dr. Gupta joins us now. I guess his working -- this White House correspondent thing might work out if this brain surgery thing doesn't work out for you, Sanjay. You look good there. You take some issue with Dr. Jackson's diagnosis. Explain.

GUPTA: Well, you know, first, Dr. Jackson, who obviously did a very thorough exam, very good doctor, said that President Trump does not have heart disease. When I told him -- asked him specifically about this exam, what's called a coronary calcium scan, which I'll explain in a minute, but that exam -- he then conceded that the president does have what's known as coronary atherosclerosis. That is basically plaque in the blood vessels that lead to the heart. That's heart disease.

So, his number -- he gave a number which is 133, and every chart you look at, all the studies and journal articles that are written about this show that anything over 100 is heart disease and puts someone at moderate risk of having some sort of heart problem down the line.

[12:40:13] This is a scan basically, it's a C.T. scan of the chest and it's basically looking for plaque in the blood vessels that go to the heart, trying to find out if there's any kind of blockage. Dr. Jackson said he's got these tests showing that the president's heart is fine, now functioning well, but these buildups of plaque in the blood vessels, those have to be addressed because you don't want them to become total blockages that could lead to a heart problem, even a heart attack down the road, John.

KING: And Sanjay, the president is 71 years old, relatively normal, routine, or out of ordinary?

GUPTA: Well, you know, look, in this country, a 71-years-old having this level of plaque is very normal. Puts him almost sort of right in the midrange of a person his age. So you know, the standard American diet which we are very familiar with, as well as the fact that heart disease is one of the most common diseases, and one of the biggest killers in the United States, this is not a surprise.

Most men, John, I would say you and I both have some evidence of heart disease. It's very common in men over the age of 40. The big thing for the president, though, is to make sure it can be addressed and those plaques don't get worse because that could lead to a problem down the road.

KING: Dr. Sanjay Gupta for us at the White House today. Again, as I noted, you look good there, Sanjay. You might want to change your job. I don't know. You're looking sharp.

One of President Trump's favorite things to talk about, those of us in the news media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's all fake news. It's phony stuff.

We are fighting the fake news. It's fake, phony, fake. Fake news. Fake, fake news.

(OFF-MIC)

All I can say is it's totally fake news. It's just fake. It's fake. It's made-up stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Some people find this amusing, but today some members of the president's own party are saying it's dangerous and enough is enough. Earlier today, listen here. Republican Senator Jeff Flake, who of course is an outspoken critic of the president, went to the Senate floor to voice his frustrations, arguing that Trump's rhetoric, repeatedly calling the media, quote, the enemy of the American people, in the senator's view echoes phrases used by Joseph Stalin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: This alone should be the source of great shame for us in this body, especially for those of us in the president's party, for they are shameful, repulsive statements. And of course the president has it precisely backward. Despotism is the enemy of the people.

The free press is the despot's enemy, which makes the free press the guardian of democracy. When a figure in power reflexively calls any press that doesn't suit him fake news, it is that person who should be the figure of suspicion, not the press.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Flake getting an assist today from fellow Arizona Senator John McCain who writes this in the Washington Post, quote, the president's attempts to undermine the free press also make it more difficult to hold repressive governments accountable.

What to make of this? It is just a fact. I get the political strategy of sparring with the media. Donald Trump's not the first, he won't be the last. He does it at a higher volume than others. It works for him.

Sometimes we get a little too thin skinned about it in our business. It's also a fact that this president has a pretty casual relationship with the truth. Does it mean anything that a retiring Republican senator goes to the floor of the world's greatest deliberative body or is it just Trump versus Flake chapter 12?

RACHAEL BADE, POLITICO CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: I think that members of the media certainly appreciate a Republican standing up for us, you know, when we're attacked so often. There are obviously political motivations here. Flake is retiring, and he's clearly considering a presidential bid as an anti-Trump candidate.

The issue here is that he really is kind of an outlier when it comes to United States. Most Republicans have decided that they're just going to tolerate the president right now to get -- to try to get stuff done. And in fact, there was a Gallup poll I think earlier this week that said six in 10 Republicans are satisfied with the way the country is going. That's the highest I think since 2007.

And Flake was delivering this speech to an empty chamber. So how many people are really listening beyond us?

ZELENY: I think that the reality here is, you know, if Jeff Flake was running for re-election, he wouldn't be saying this. I mean, I think he's probably wouldn't be saying this I should say. But he -- you know, he's a conservative by every measure.

When he was in the House, he was certainly very conservative. So it's hardly -- you know, I guess he's more of a moderate now. But look, I'm not sure it makes that much of a difference because as you said, Republicans want to get things it done. They're looking the other way here. I think in a matter of history, it's a marker at this moment that some people rose up. But to the president's been very successful in his efforts to discredit the media, without question. And of course, it's dangerous.

KING: The senator makes the point it's dangerous. And again, I think if we naval gaze as reporters, sometimes the people out there would say, you know, you're making this about yourself. But he made some important points in his speech I thought.

He said, number one, it is a crime against democracy when the president of the United States will not recognize that Russia meddled in the election and call a cabinet level meeting to deal with it.

[12:40:07] When you keep calling it a hoax, that you, a, you invite it to happen again but you minimize it. I think he said a lot of the other ones are trivial. You know, the largest inauguration crowd ever.

But it's not trivial when the president says three million to five million people voted illegally. That undermines faith in the American democracy.

The question and you touched on this is, listen to Senator Flake here. He's saying I shouldn't be a lonely voice. When I make this case, I should get a lot of help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLAKE: No longer can we compound -- the attacks on truth with our silent acquiesce sense. No longer can we turn a blind eye or a deaf ear to those assaults on our institutions. And Mr. President, an American president who cannot take criticism, who must constantly deflect and distort and distract, who must find someone else to blame, is charting a very dangerous path. And a Congress that fails to act as a check on the president adds to that danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, Republicans routinely in private conversations roll their eyes at the president or laugh at the president when he does these things. But is the senator there tilting at windmills when he says you should come join me and make that case publicly?

BACON: OK, so two things to say. Public trust in the media has gone up over the last year. So the fake news charge has not necessarily affected the public. In fact, the public seems to trust us in the media more.

That said n terms of Republican congressmen, yes, he's tilting to the windmills. Trump has an 80 percent (INAUDIBLE) among Republican voters. And until that number gets much lower, then that's not going to change. The incentive for a Republican in Congress to go on the floor and do what Jeff Flake did is almost zero.

I'm surprised that even John McCain joined him. Again, John McCain, Jeff Flake, I think they've -- you know, Bob Corker, these people's words, I would argue, just mean less because they are not going to stand up and try to run for re-election now.

KING: And McCain makes the case that in addition to the debate here in his op-ed in addition to the debate here at home in the United States that other world leaders. He says look what's happening in Venezuela, looks what's happening in the Philippines, looks what's happening, you know, in Myanmar, in other places that essentially, they look at the United States which used to be the champion of free press, the First Amendment, and free speech, and they see a president who's mocking that and they say, great, we'll do it too.

HAM: Yes. You mentioned that he's an outlier. He's an outlier partly because invoking Stalin is counterproductive and historically ignorant because Trump is not Stalin-esque. I get the point about despots. I've made many of the same criticisms, but I think you really lose people.

And further, it actually is problematic with those despots in other places when you're comparing a fairly elected man like Trump to them. That actually downgrades that title as well.

Look, I don't think he's doing a lot of good outside of folks in D.C. or New York who are listening to him and ra-raing him. I like Senator Flake, I've liked him for a long time. I think he is conservative on many points

I do not see how this gets us anywhere, partly because when he says that the president should be under suspicion, not the media, I'm part of the media. We should be under suspicion as well in a free society. And we get things really wrong, really often.

KING: I would really -- I would take that as a skep -- people should view everything with skepticism. And as I often note, you have a super computer in your hand. You can fact check what we say and what the president says. Keep score. See who wins.

Up next, Paul Ryan says Republicans should pay attention to what happened in the special election in his home state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:52:33] KING: Some new evidence today 2018 could bring a Democratic wave. The party flipped a state Senate seat in rural Wisconsin, true. Single state Senate seat, low-turnout special election. But the Democrat won by nine points in a district that Donald Trump won by nearly 20.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Typically we've held this seat, and we lost this seat last night. So yes, I think we should pay attention to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: The House speaker there. Meantime, neighboring Minnesota, the ex-governor Tim Pawlenty says he will not run in the special election for Al Franken's Senate seat, yet another top Republican saying no thanks, I'm not going to be on the ballot in 2018.

Let's talk about that, including you saw the speaker publicly there. You have reporting that inside the private House Republican meeting this morning, they talked about this because every seed of this potential 2018 wave has to make them more nervous.

BADE: Yes. And Republicans know there's a wave potentially building and that their majority really is on the line right now. It's one of the reasons why leaders had Karen Handle stand up. She was the republican who won special election in Georgia in June when there was $25,000 worth of Democratic money pouring in to try to get the Democrat to win in this traditionally conservative district.

Now, the issue there is that Republicans are saying the key for her win was to run against Nancy Pelosi. So they're saying they're going to try to do that. But also, if they see this as a success, that is a problem because Republicans won that district by 20 points before and they only won it by four points last time. So that's not necessarily good for them.

KING: All right, let's look at that real quickly. Georgia's 6th special election, Republicans won all these seats but look at the margins. Look at the margins how the Democrats lost by 23, now then four. Democrats lost by 30-plus, then six.

You look at those numbers there. So even though -- even in places where the Republicans are winning, they're seeing evidence of a Democratic groundswell of turnout.

HAM: Yes. I mean, I think there are a couple things to worry about. There's Democratic excitement, combined with Republican complacency, and I think the third part, the secret ingredient I think partly in Alabama, is a real willingness for Democrats to put in work on the ground.

Wisconsin's a state that's been carved up thanks to all the recalls. It's organized within an inch of its life. And they do work on the ground. And so those things all combined with the erosion of talent, of course, with people looking at a bad environment does not look great.

ZELENY: And retirements are coming up. Look for more House Republican retirements in the next few weeks. This is going to be a big thing to watch. And recruiting Republicans as well, that i a big issue. Tim Pawlenty I'm told did not want to join the Senate, he's happy in private life. He wants to be a senator but retirements and recruitment is an issue.

KING: And also, you don't want be -- you don't want to risk losing. You don't want to risk losing. You don't want to try to come back into politics and lose.

[12:55:03] Thanks for joining us in the INSIDE POLITICS today. We'll be talking about this one for months and months.

Sarah Sanders about to come out any moment now to take questions at the White House briefing. Wolf Blitzer will take you there after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, we're standing by for today's White House press briefing against the growing threat of a possible government shutdown here in the United States. We're going to bring you the briefing live as soon as it begins, looking at live pictures right now.

Meantime, House Republican leaders are taking what's called a go-it- alone approach to try to keep the federal government running past midnight on Friday, but it's not clear if they have the votes necessary to pass a temporary spending bill.

Their continuing resolution that would extend spending until February 16th, extend the children's health insurance program known as CHIP for six years, delay some ObamaCare taxes, and allow the Defense Department to fund missile defense upgrades.

Let's go to our Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta. He's joining us from inside the briefing room right now.

Jim, so what's the White House position on efforts right now to avoid a government shutdown?