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Rex Tillerson Fired; Mike Pompeo Nominated; Trump Fires Aide; Potential Trump Administration Exits. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 13, 2018 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:17] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King.

A major Trump administration shake-up. The president fires the Secretary Of State, Rex Tillerson. The CIA Director Mike Pompeo will be moving soon to foggy bottom.

Plus, it's election day in Pennsylvania. Trump country. A district the president carried by more than 20 points 16 months ago. Democrats think they have a chance for a stunning upset tonight.

And the House Russia investigation is over. Even though they didn't call some key witnesses. Democrats say it's a sham. Even one Republican on the committee says the panel lost its credibility.

We begin this hour with the Trump administration shake-up with global implications. Rex Tillerson now out as secretary of state. The president, as I noted, wants the CIA director, Mike Pompeo, to replace him. A State Department official telling CNN, Tillerson did get a heads-up Friday night this might be in the works, but he found out it was done and that he was out when most of the world did, when this, "you're fired" tweet, hit the Internet.

Talk about rexit, of course, goes back months because of constant tensions between the president and his top diplomat. The timing, though is fascinating. A potential summit with North Korea in the weeks ahead. And another top official out at a time of dizzying personnel chaos in the West Wing and across the administration. The president says Pompeo is a better fit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're always on the same wavelength. The relationship has been very good and that's what I need as secretary of state. I respect his intellect. I respect the process that we've all gone through together. We have a very good relationship, for whatever reason, chemistry, whatever it is. Why do people get along? I've always, right from the beginning, from day one, I've gotten along well with Mike Pompeo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: CNN's Jeff Zeleny live for us at the White House.

Jeff, in the one sense this is a big surprise. In another sense, it's not a surprise. Take us inside what happened.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, there's no question, the timing is a bit of a surprise, happening this morning, happening really moments before the president is flying out for his first trip to California. But the substance of the firing, certainly not a surprise. You could hear the president there openly saying he disagreed with the secretary of state. You know, and that's been going on for months. The bad blood has been simmering. It reached a boiling point.

Now, the question is, timing. We are told that White House Chief of Staff John Kelly informed the secretary of state while he was in Africa last week that this was happening, but we're told the timing wasn't clear. That's why the State Department and indeed many here at the White House were caught off guard this morning when this happened.

But so clear in the president's praise of Mike Pompeo, he sees in him everything he didn't see in Rex Tillerson. He sees in him a like- minded figure on many things.

And, John, this would not be that big of a deal if he hadn't had so many other staff shake-ups. This coming on the heels of the chief economic adviser and so many other people moving around here. That's why this makes this so important.

But on the world stage, it's no surprise, no secret that Rex Tillerson has not been necessarily speaking with the president's voice. He believes Mike Pompeo will essentially carry his message. They are in lock-step. The question, John, will that continue? Will Mike Pompeo be able to continue being in lock-step with the president in this new, higher profile role?

John.

KING: Interesting and fascinating questions.

Jeff Zeleny at the White House, thank you.

With us here on this big news day to share their reporting and their insights, a bigger group than normal, CNN's John Kirby, our diplomatic analyst, Phil Mattingly, Abby Philip, "The Federalist's" Mary Katharine Ham, Dan Balz with "The Washington Post" and former Republican Senator Rick Santorum.

Everybody at the table I think would agree that the president has ever right and every reason to have his own team, to have people with whom he is in sync.

Admiral, let me start with you because of your State Department and your Pentagon experience. Is it -- a, that's a good thing. If you're a foreign minister around the world, now I assume you can trust the secretary of state speaks for the president, but the time is kind of curious and how Secretary Tillerson found out, a bit of a surprise.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Yes, I think it's egregious the way he found out. That's not the way you deal with a cabinet level issue like this. It's totally ungentlemanly and not -- and not at all appropriate.

But you're right, John, the president gets to pick his cabinet. And the -- and the president should want to -- for the United States to speak with one voice on the global stage. And we haven't. Mr. Tillerson has been undermined by the president and we haven't been seen as credibly speaking with one voice out there in the world. So, in a sense, this is a good thing for a U.S. foreign policy.

The timing is also maybe not all that bad. I mean my first reaction was, oh, my goodness, right as we're getting ready to sit down with Kim Jong-un. But you know what? Maybe because Mr. Tillerson hasn't been seen as that credible, maybe this is the right time for the president to do that.

KING: Maybe, you say, the right time to do it.

[12:05:01] Senator, the president essentially said this is part of a learning curve for him. He didn't use the words that way, but he said I've been here 14 months now, I'm finally getting around to understanding the cabinet I want, the cabinet I need.

Is it evidence of a presidential learning curve? And I don't say that to criticize this president. Every president goes through this to a degree. I think it might be the turnovers at a larger scale with this president.

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he was just focused on having a secretary of state that would sort of have a wow factor when he -- when he first nominated Rex Tillerson, the CEO of Exxon. That was -- that was a very important thing for his own credibility as to getting the a-team around him.

But he wasn't a good fit from the very beginning. And I would disagree with the admiral on one thing. I don't think that the president undermined the secretary. I think the secretary undermined the president, which is really -- he's the policymaker, not the secretary. And that's what was going on, that he was -- he was out there saying things, very much undermining what the president's message was. Mike Pompeo's going to be on message. And it's perfect. I think it sends a very strong signal to North Korea. I think the timing is perfect for this because it sends a message to North Korea, we're on the same page. We're dead serious about this. We're not trying to, you know, good cop-bad cop you. We're coming straight at you.

KING: You make a key point in the sense that because Rex Tillerson was a CEO, because he came to Washington new to Washington. Yes, he traveled the world. Yes, when it came to oil interests maybe or energy questions, you might know where (ph) he thought because he did that. But we didn't know much about, what does he think about Vladimir Putin and the bigger question of Russia? What does he think about North Korea? Is he a Russian hawk? Is he more of a moderate?

I want you all just to listen here (INAUDIBLE). Now we're going to have a new secretary of state. Clearly, as the president said, somebody he's on a greater wavelength with. Let's get a sample here of Mike Pompeo, who sounds more hawkish than the current secretary. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, CIA DIRECTOR: It would be a great thing to denuclearize the peninsula, to get those weapons off of that. But the thing that is most dangerous about it is the character who holds the control over them today.

This is Iranian compliance today. Grudging, minimalist, temporary with no intention of really what the agreement was designed to do. It was designed to foster stability and have Iran become a reentrance (ph) into the western world. And the agreement simply hasn't achieved that.

The Russians attempted to interfere in the United States elections in 2016. They also did so before that. There's a long history of Russian efforts to influence the United States and connect influence operations against the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Abby Phillip, you cover the White House. He -- the new secretary of state sounds more hawkish than the president on the question of Vladimir Putin. Is he more in sync with the president, especially about the Iran nuclear deal? And to everybody's point about now he's going to be front and center in the North Korea negotiations. He's publically essentially said, the only way to fix North Korea is to have regime change.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He is certainly more in sync with the president on Iran. And you heard President Trump say that -- say as much this morning when he talked about this issue, taking about how Tillerson and the Iran deal, they weren't seeing eye to eye.

But I think the most important thing about Pompeo is that he understands how to manage the president. He's gotten to know Trump over the last year or so, and they have a pretty good relationship, a close relationship. He understands how to talk to Trump, how to execute for Trump and how to walk that very fine line between giving Trump what he wants to hear and what he wants to see, and also knowing that he has responsibilities, for example, to the people that he oversees at the CIA. So that's something that Tillerson has never been able to do.

President Trump met Rex Tillerson for the first time in his job interview. They didn't know anything about each other. It wasn't just that we didn't know anything about Tillerson's views. Tillerson and the president didn't know as much about each other's views. So they came into that relationship from a bad place, and Pompeo is already coming at this at an advantage, which is that he knows how to have that fine balancing act with President Trump that others have had to learn on the job, for example, like John Kelly, figuring out what you can bend him on and what you have to -- what you have to execute his desires on.

KING: Dan, you've been in town a bit with me. The question is, what's the impact on the administration? A question from day one has been, who is Donald Trump? You know, where does he plant this flag? Where is he malleable? Where is he going to stand firm?

Mike Pompeo, three terms as a congressman from Kansas. Served on the Intelligence Committee. Was a big member, an aggressive member of the Benghazi committee. Didn't think the Benghazi committee was tough enough on Hillary Clinton. First in his class from West Point. A Harvard Law School graduate.

What's different? What is different with Mike Pompeo at the State Department compared to Rex Tillerson?

DAN BALZ, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, I think one, which has already been mentioned, is Iran. And the president will have to make a decision in the next couple of months of whether to actually pull out of the Iran agreement. One would think that given where we've heard from Mike Pompeo up to now, he will push to do that. That's a different place than Rex Tillerson.

There's a more immediate situation that would actually crop up before he's confirmed, but he'll have a role in it, and that's with the nerve gas poisoning in the U.K. The U.K. has given the Russians until tonight at midnight to come back and respond to the criticism from the prime minister.

They may go to NATO and ask for support. What will the administration do?

The White House put out a very weak statement yesterday. Tillerson put out a very strong statement about the Russians. Where will Pompeo come down on that and how will that affect the president?

[12:10:06] So there are two areas right away where we're going to begin to possibly see a difference.

KING: On the specifics of the -- what the Brits think happened, the Russians, you know, they're out poisoning a spy. On the specifics of that and the broader question, is it possible that the Trump administration will be tougher on Putin now because at the State Department is a guy Trump likes? So when Mike Pompeo tells him, be tougher on Putin, he'll have more creditably than maybe Rex Tillerson, with whom -- for whether you agree or disagree with it, there was tension from the start?

MARY KATHARINE HAM, "THE FEDERALIST": Yes, I think this is really the interesting part of it because I don't want to put too much policy order -- impose too much policy order on something that ultimately I think is about personal antipathy or peak. And so I do think he hears things more -- he hears things better from people he likes better.

Pompeo has been no slouch on Russia. He's been consistent about that. And, frankly, as we moved along, if you take this as a learning curve, the second gen White House hires are -- cabinet hires have been better than the first one and have worked better with Trump and have seemed to go better. But there's just so many of them.

KING: All right. And, Phil, you've come down from Capitol Hill, where John Cornyn, the

number two Senate Republican, kind of sighed today. He sided he likes Pompeo. He's a Texan, so he said very nice things about his fellow Texan, Rex Tillerson. But his point was more to the process, that now they have to have two confirmation hearings. You'll have a new secretary of state. You're also going to have the first woman likely as the CIA director. The now deputy will be promoted up into that.

But on Capitol Hill, there's been a lot of concern about the chaos, both from a policy perspective, how do you get a straight answer, whose answers do you trust, and then from a, we're in a midterm election year and all the churning in affecting attitudes out in the country about, does this administration have its act straight?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, and to the former, Republicans I've talked to, they're happy about the Mike Pompeo selection. They like Mike Pompeo. House Republican love Mike Pompeo. They think he's a good fit for the president. As Abby was laying out, they know the relationship between Mike Pompeo as the CIA director and the president is certainly significantly better than where Rex Tillerson was. And I think The Hill has a difficult time not unlike our allies, our U.S. allies, in trying to figure out if Rex -- what Rex Tillerson was saying actually reflects where the White House is.

I think to your point, though, there's a couple complicating factors here. One, as the admiral stated, a lot of Republicans I spoke to were a little unsettled by how this actually all came to be, right? I actually was at breakfast with two administration officials this morning and I informed them that this had occurred. That was pretty much par for the course across the Capitol. John Cornyn telling our colleague, Sunlen Serfaty, he found out via news alerts. Almost every senior Republican and Republican aide I spoke to, with the exception of the speaker and the majority leader in the Senate, found out via Twitter or via news alerts. That, I think, is not necessarily usual. Usually you have a White House ledge (ph) team to handle that issue.

And the other issue is obviously the confirmation process. There's not a lot of floor time that's out there. This is going to take a very long time to actually move through. April will be the first hearings on Mike Pompeo.

But as you noted, it's an election year. And what this will become is a referendum on President Trump, President Trump's foreign policy, the direction of everything and how that's going. Democrats have already made very clear to me, they are going to make this as difficult and as long as possible. Mike Pompeo will be confirmed as secretary of state barring some massive blowup. Likely the CIA director nominee will be as well, though she has some ties to Bush administration torture policy that's raised some concerns here. Both of them should be confirmed.

But the process and how quickly they want to move and need to move, given how restrictive floor time is and how complicated Democrats want to make this, that certainly makes things a little bit more difficult, I think, than people would like given what's on the foreign policy (INAUDIBLE).

KING: And to the broader question of turnover and chaos. As this was playing out this morning, we also learned that a person most of America doesn't know, Johnny McEntee, he's the president's personal aide. You see him in a lot of the pictures walking to Marine One. You see him maybe putting the speech down on the podium. But someone who has been at the president's side for a long time, escorted off the property because of a background issue. Our Kaitlan Collins at the White House reporting there, he's being investigated for serious potential -- alleged, we should be careful, alleged financial crimes. He's escorted off the grounds at the White House and within hours put on the Trump campaign payroll. What's afoot here?

PHILLIP: This is an extraordinary thing. I mean I think it's a really serious problem. There are a lot of people, clearly like Jon McEntee, like Rob Porter, who had issues in their backgrounds and have been working in this White House for a year and some change. And it's only now, after there have been scandal after scandal after scandal, that they're being dealt with. And it raises some really serious questions about what was going on at the very beginning.

We don't know what the details are, the situation with McEntee. But just to give everybody a sense of what's going on and who he is, he is President Trump's body man. He's the person who is physically close to the president, almost as close as you can get, really. He's with him virtually every single day. Has been with Trump since the campaign and is privy to a lot of things.

So there's a problem in the White House. And some of these resignations really highlight that they -- these people are -- were not being vetted and now they're being pushed out as quickly as -- as I -- it seems John Kelly can get them out.

KING: Well, to that point, it is a problem that you're on for a year and change if you have significant problems in your background check. It is probably -- maybe -- hopefully a sign of turning the page of progress that John Kelly has the list, who still has the problem and he's going through it and dealing with it as he needs to.

[12:15:11] We'll take a quick break.

Up next, the brief and tumultuous history between the president and his now outgoing secretary of state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Welcome back.

Back to our top story and the tension that ran to the very end. After getting word he is fired, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson thanked the president for the opportunity to serve, but not before questioning the merits of the decision and the president's manners.

A State Department official releasing, on the secretary's behalf, this statement. The secretary had every intention of remaining because of the tangible progress made on critical national security issues. He established and enjoyed relationships with his counterparts. Then this. The secretary did not speak to the president this morning and is unaware of the reason. But he is grateful for the opportunity to serve and still believes strongly that public service is a noble calling and not to be regretted.

[12:20:01] Dan, I've read a lot of these statements over the years, people on the way out. Normally they just focus on the, thank you for the opportunity to serve part, not, the president -- the secretary did not speak to the president this morning and is unaware of the reason, after going on saying, I think I'm doing a pretty good job and I wanted to stay.

BALZ: Yes, it's extraordinary, to say the least, John.

And I think it, you know, more fundamentally speaks to the lack of a relationship between the president and his secretary of state, which, you know, as Abby said, he didn't -- they didn't know one another at the beginning. They never hit it off. There was no relationship there. There has been talk for months and months and months that Rex Tillerson was on his way out or was soon to leave or would be fired, however you want to characterize it. And I think that statement today says everything we need to understand about what the situation was of longstanding between these two men.

KING: So why did it go on so long? You're right, this goes back months. Why did it go on so long? And, again, I -- to just play contrarian for a minute, I get the White House perspective. And if they had done it right away, the media would have said chaos, Trump brings in these people and doesn't give them a chance, pulls the rug out from under them, constantly undermines them.

But back to the bigger point, he's the president of the United States. He has the right to have whoever he wants around him. If he lost faith in Rex Tillerson months and months ago, why not?

MATTINGLY: Well, he had allies, and I think that's important to note. One, I would say, to be frank right now, if you talk to senior Republicans on The Hill, they're kind of exhaling a little bit because they knew for months and months and months, a, this was happening, but, b, they also had to have the battle for Rex Tillerson. Bob Corker being kind of example a, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman, would repeatedly come out publically and defend Rex Tillerson at what seemed like the moments where he was really hanging by a thread. Now they don't have to do that anymore.

But think that, not just on Capitol Hill, but also in the administration. Rex Tillerson had defenders. People believed that Rex Tillerson was good for the job. And while they didn't necessarily always know where he was going to end up on the policy side of things. They thought that he should have been given the opportunity. And I do think that he worked very hard to have those relationships on Capitol Hill so people like Senator Bob Corker, or Ed Royce on the House side, were always out there to defend him politically, but also behind the scenes, to inform the administration officials, to inform John Kelly, hey, back off on this one right now. We feel like he should be given the time to actually work this out. That, obviously, became untenable to a point and I think frankly on

The Hill side it became untenable, too. They were tired of having to always be the people who stood in the middle of this fight that they all kind of knew how it was going to end.

SANTORUM: He gave -- he gave -- he gave Tillerson every opportunity to do the graceful thing and leave. And he wasn't going to do it. And so this raises another question, Jeff Sessions.

So, if you look at the other cabinet official who's sort of been on the -- in the crosshairs of the president and sort of saying, you know, why don't you leave, which is what was encouraged to Tillerson, is Jeff Sessions. The difference between Sessions and Tillerson, while Tillerson may have had some friends, they weren't the base -- they weren't the friends that were the base of the president's people. Jeff Sessions is the base of the president's people. And that's why he'll -- I don't think he'll ever fire Jeff Sessions because it simply will -- it will simply alienate too many people who are -- who are important to him.

Firing Rex Tillerson is not going to -- there might be a few crocodile tears on Capitol Hill, but no one's going to be that upset.

KING: To that point, and you mentioned Jeff Sessions, everybody played the role of Trump translator. This is what he said on the way out of the White House this morning. I've gotten to know a lot of people very well over the last year. I'm really at the point where I'm getting very close to having a cabinet and other things that I want.

Very close is not done. So Rex Tillerson's out. You don't think it will be Jeff Sessions. Then who else -- who else -- who is -- who is supposed to take the hint?

PHILLIP: What's -- what -- what is so stunning about this is that it could be any number of people. It could be his VA secretary, Shulkin. It could be Jeff Sessions. It could be a lot of people. There are a lot of people. H.R. McMaster.

KIRBY: Yes, McMaster.

KING: Right.

PHILLIP: Who the president is tired of and does not want around him anymore and is waiting for an opportunity to push them out. And I think it's important to think about where we are in terms of timing.

Just a week ago the president feels like he won a significant victory in the North Korea situation. His maximum pressure campaign, his rhetoric, he believes he did that, not Rex Tillerson. He didn't even ask Rex Tillerson before he agreed to it. So he's coming at this from -- from a position of strength. And I think that's what he's expressing there this morning on the lawn is, I am finally in a place where I can do what I want. And he's going to get rid of the people he doesn't want to see regularly.

KING: And let's remember, we talked a lot about the policy, what would be different now and what was the problem. Secretary Tillerson out of the loop on the North Korea decision, without a doubt.

We also know that -- you know, and, admiral, I want you to weigh in on this one because you've served at the State Department and at the Pentagon for the principles, if you will, at a very high level position. He got in a dustup with the president, who likes to be loved, after he was quoted in news reports saying he went into a meeting and called the president a moron. Then he had to try to clean it up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm not going to deal with petty stuff like that. I mean this is -- this is what I don't understand about Washington.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD": Is it true? Did you call him a moron?

TILLERSON: Jake, as I indicated earlier when I was asked about that, I'm not going to deal with that kind of petty stuff. I mean this is a town that seems to relish gossip, rumor, innuendo.

[12:25:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why didn't you deny calling the president a moron?

TILLERSON: You know, that's a really old question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You understand that by not answering the question, some people thought you were confirming the story.

TILLERSON: I think I've answered the question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Of course he's never answered the question.

KIRBY: Actually, I think he did, John.

KING: Maybe -- OK.

KIRBY: I think -- I think he did answer the question.

KING: Forgive me, yes.

KIRBY: And I -- and I do think that this was certainly a nail in the coffin for Rex Tillerson.

Look, you're always going to have disagreements between cabinet officials and cabinet officials and the president. I saw that working for Secretary Panetta, Secretary Hagel (ph) and Secretary Kerry. That's to be expected. And any normal White House wants a little bit of friction because you want that policymaking process to be -- to come up with the best outcome at the end. And that takes the bait.

This is a different White House. And I think sometimes this president views policy differences as personal differences. And I think he takes it -- he puts -- he brings it inside a little bit more than he should have. Clearly there are significant differences between Tillerson and the president on a lot of foreign policy issues.

But one to watch is going to be Mattis, because he has stayed sort of under the radar. He's still considered very, very strong and influential inside the cabinet. But he's losing in Rex Tillerson a real compadre on -- in terms of how to approach foreign policy and sticky, thorny issues like North Korea.

KING: It will be interesting to watch going forward. Everybody sit tight. We'll continue our reporting.

Up next, we shift to politics a little bit. Donald Trump Junior calls it a small race, but today's election in western Pennsylvania is a big test for the White House and the Republican Party.