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CNN Exclusive: Mueller Team Questioning Russian Oligarchs; Mark Zuckerberg To Testify On Capitol Hill Next Week; Midwest Republicans Warn Trump On Tariffs; CNN: Trump Gets Testy With National Security Team Over Syria. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 05, 2018 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:02] SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: -- appeared before the grand jury, but certainly all of this shows us that the focus here is on the money, John.

JOHN KING, INSIDE POLITICS ANCHOR: Focus on the money. Shimon, appreciate that exclusive reporting.

And let's bring in inside, you know, that's pretty extraordinary. We've talked a lot of times about witnesses have come out of the interviews with the Special Counsel and are stunned by the level of detail they have. Waiting for a private jet tracking the incoming flight? I mean, you know these flights are coming, but tracking the flight and -- knock, knock -- when the plane lands? That's a big deal.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG: Yes, I think it is a big deal, and I think Mueller's team has been very careful about being very discreet in terms of sharing with the public any of the work that they're doing, but you can get from glimpses of this sort of big picture assessment of the depth, the breadth, the scope of what they're looking at. At the same time, you see them certainly trying to encourage witnesses to cooperate, to be cooperative, and so there is kind of this dual track of a merciful approach and yet an unrelenting approach in terms of the search for where the money is and where the connections was.

KING: And you're right about -- there is so much we don't know. So what do we know? We know there's that media in the sea shells. There are friends (ph) a big Trump supporter goes to the sea shells, well there, says it was a coincidence amidst for the prominent Russian businessmen.

That Jared Kushner questioned he didn't initially disclose during the transition, had a meeting with a Russian banker who's under sanctions by the United States. This is Jim Himes, who's a Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee trying to explain to Americans, you might don't understand this, we don't think if our businessman being -- he's actually agent of our President, it's just not the way it works in Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM HIMES (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: One of the things he will do is he will deploy those oligarchs to send money here, to convey messages to this person. It's sort of hard to fully understand if you think of an economy and if wealthy people the way we do in this country where wealthy American obviously isn't an agent of the state. That is not true in Russia.

So it doesn't surprise me at all. You know, the names keep coming up, the businesses keep coming up in our own investigation in the Intelligence Committee. Russian banks, Russian businesses and oligarchs kept coming up as circling around the campaign and the election in general.

KING: It's all the more interesting when you remember Michael Flynn, the former National Security Adviser, who had dealings with Russia as a private citizen, and during the Trump campaign has flipped, that has a corroborating witness. Rick Gates who we know had a meeting late in the 2016 campaign with a known Russian spy. He has flipped and has a corroborating witness. Now the FBI, the Special Counsel's team talking to these oligarchs?

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Yes. I think the more of these oligarchs (ph) don't lie to the FBI about this, because they know. Because they know so much more than we know about this investigation, and that's where it feels like a lot of these officials or former officials are getting wrapped up in this. That they're trying to put something by Mueller. Not a good idea.

KING: But I don't know -- I know the President follows the news ferociously. I used to work in the Associated Press before I came here. I called it the family wire. I don't know if he's going to read this story, but if he does, this is going to tick the President off.

The story about the message Mueller sending through all of these plead deals and his tough tactics against those who don't cooperate. It says, "George Papadopoulos now tweets smiling beach selfies with a Mykonos hashtag. Rick Gates, for weeks at home confinement with electronic monitoring, gets rapid approval for a family vacation and shaves down his potential prison time. Michael Flynn flies cross- country to stump for a California congressional candidate and books a speaking event in New York."

Ouch. If you're the President, what do you feel?

TALEV: Yes. No, that's exactly right. So the signal certainly that the oligarchs use of the sense is that they are to follow the money aspect to this, and that follow the money aspect is going in two directions. One is what were the Russians trying to do and number two, how do the money connect with principles in the U.S. particularly those in someway affiliated with Trump organization, the Trump campaign and the Trump administration.

And now the other hand, this on my mistakable signal that if you do get wrapped up in this, and Mueller's going to come knocking on your door, if you were cooperate, if you were forthcoming about your information, there is life for you on the other hand of the rainbow. Not for everyone, maybe not Paul Manafort, but for many of the other principals.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE BOSTON GLOBE: Exactly. That's what I'm going to say. The opposite side of what we're talking about here is Paul Manafort who has been steadfast in his pleas of innocence and also the saying that he believes the Special Counsel respected vows. He is not flying across the country. He is someone who had more charges added on and is basing down with the Special Counsel.

I mean, I think one of the things that sticks out to me when we talk about this is the scope, the breadth of it all, and how we continue to see this investigation move in directions in which did not seem likely maybe a year ago and that signals (ph) to me. And to the President's point in asking for it to be done, we're nowhere near that and that's a continuing to branch out into new directions which we don't know the end too.

KING: I think that's the key point. We know it has done this, and still there is so much we don't know. We know it's grown and it's broader and deeper and there still so much. We don't know.

Up next, Mark Zuckerberg agrees to testify on Capitol Hill. Just what members want to hear from the big boss of Facebook.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:39:30] KING: Topping our political radar today, President Trump leaving the White House any moment now. He's heading to West Virginia this afternoon to promote the big tax cut law he signed last year. He'll be in White Sulphur Springs for a roundtable discussion with local families and business leaders. The White House says, we benefit from that tax law.

State Attorney General Patrick Morrisey will also be at that event. He is a Republican running for Senate. Look here, pushing an anti- Washington message with ads like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK MORRISEY, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF WEST VIRGINIA: Let's take on Washington with our West Virginia conservative values. Let's not just change Washington, let's blow it up and reinvent it. That's better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:06] KING: This cheeky response from one liberal group that helped Morrisey's wife, a Washington, D.C. lobbyist, is OK. Morrisey facing up against another Republican, Congressman Evan Jenkins in the primary first they hope to take on incumbent Joe Manchin in November.

Facebook boss Mark Zuckerberg has a date with Congress. Two of them, in fact. First up next Tuesday, when Zuckerberg is scheduled to testify jointly before two Senate committee. The next day, it will be on the House side.

Lawmakers want to grill him on Facebook's privacy policy discretionally after this from the social media giant, a new disclosure that a consulting from working with the Trump campaign accessed data from 87 million Facebook users. The initial estimate is 50 million. Zuckerberg had a rare damage control call with reporters last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: We're an idealistic and optimistic company. For the first decade we really focused on all the good that connecting people brings. But it's clear now that we didn't do enough. We didn't focus enough on preventing abuse and thinking through how people could use these tools to do harm as well."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: A little test run there of what witness Mark Zuckerberg will say when in the chair first before the Senate and then the House?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. No question about it. Look, there are strategies to these hearings. There are strategies to being witnesses at these hearings. You have to apologize, you have to accept that you're going to get the living you know what kicked out of you for a large period of time, particularly when you go in front of a House panel that wants to clip YouTube videos for their upcoming reelection.

I think the interesting element, and we talked about this a little bit earlier, is what is Facebook's strategy as they go into these hearings? Because you need one. You absolutely need one, particularly for somebody like Mark Zuckerberg who doesn't like public appearances, does not like television interviews and certainly he's not use to people beating up on him on live television.

How is he planning to handle this? What are is his responses going to be and how forth coming are they going to be about a lot of stuff that I think they're still figuring out the full depth of it.

KEENE: And that's what bothers people in Capitol Hill. You know that the Intelligence Committee here say and think number one, it was slow to acknowledge, the Russian involvement and slow to be able to produce any evidence of how broad deep it was then they can changed the story.

Just in the last week they got from 50 million to 87 million in terms of Cambridge Analytica. And doing all that, their number one goal is probably to keep from being regulated or from being aggressively regulated. So are you keeping things going in the meantime?

TALEV: Yes, I think their number one goal is to keep from losing a ton of money. And if getting regulated to some extent is what preserves things that's bad. I mean, I think in -- particularly in tag world, particularly in social media this is moving so quickly.

And there are so many competing interests, people that want to -- groups that want to overtake Facebook and become the next place that everybody goes. That everybody tend to knife you in the back. All the Democrats wondering whether they got too close to tech and whether it's going to hurt them in the election. Everybody worried about information that the bleeding of this into things like, you know, Russian election interference.

There are so many factors, everybody trying to cover themselves. And he's going to be a very lonely person in a very dangerous setting.

KING: Yes, just (INAUDIBLE) is partisans one of these hearings. I think both sides are going to come at some aggressive questions here. We'll see how that one goes.

Up next, farm state Republicans not so happy with the President threatening a trade war with China. Well, neither are a lot of Trump voters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:47:34] KING: Welcome back. Talk of a trade war is not playing well in the Heartland, including Trump country. You know the old cliche? How is it playing in Peoria? Well, farmers say Chinese tariffs could hurt Illinois economy. Is the Peoria journal starts big headline?

Off to Ohio, the Columbus dispatch warning, Ohio exports to China in crosshairs of looming trade war. You can see the other ones they are same words and tone headlines from Missouri, Minnesota, Indiana, Iowa. With those headlines, comes more and more of these. Republicans worried the President is so determine to keep his big campaign promise, to get tough with China that he's ignoring the price here at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My generals are the most respected that we've had in many decades, I believe.

And you're going to see some incredible numbers with respect to the success of General Mattis and others with the ISIS situation. The numbers are staggering how successful they've been, the military has been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Obviously, the computer in our homework there. That was the President talking about ISIS. What we were going to show you was Congresswoman Vicki Hartzler saying this is hurting farmers back home. Hurting farmers back home as you wish the President would do. Here are some others you go through.

Congressman Steve King, usually a big supporter of this President from Iowa. "They are not as concerned about trade deficits as they are by this emerging trade war." Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa, "I need for him, him being the President, to understand that we're hurting the Midwest and this is not helping." Senator Pat Roberts, Republican of Kansas, "It's just very unfortunate outlook that we have protectionist advising the President and that it seems he has an intrinsic believe in protectionism." Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, Republican, "I don't think we're headed to the right place on trade policy."

Now the President often likes real issues in fact, being at ads with the Republican establishment and members of his own party. He's wondering he got elected as being an outsider. But when you see these headlines and you see farmers, human beings, Trump voters, not just elected officials, saying, ouch, there's coming a difference?

KUCINICH: There's a reason that there's a group and I think it's something like farmer have fair trade. They're running ads on pretty much every cable network that if you have a farmer saying, I like President Trump, I voted for President Trump, but these new trade tariffs could really hurt me, and I think you're just kind of keep that -- members are going to keep amplifying that message, because this could definitely hurt farmers in the Midwest, exactly where Trump's support base was.

In addition, I think a lot of these farmers thought that the President wasn't going to do this. They liked some of the other things he was saying, but were hoping when it came to China he wouldn't go this far because the people around him would have said, you know, Mr. President, this isn't the right thing to do. But they seemed to have underestimated. The President is doing exactly what he said he would.

[12:50:10] KING: To that point, what's interesting to me, remember the former Iowa Governor Terry Branstad is the U.S. Ambassador to China, has even take a hospital (ph).

KUCINICH: Yes. Him.

KING: So we haven't heard a peep from him because we know he doesn't like this. To your point, again, the President sometimes likes opinion (ph) with the Republican establishment. He said helps him including elected officials in his own party.

Here's Ron Moore who is a farmer and chairman of the American Soybean Association quoting in the St. Louis dispatch, "It doesn't seem like he's listening to the people that helped him get elected as much as we would like him to. When agriculture becomes successful, rural America becomes successful. Like it or not, we are a global market. We have to export markets to continue to grow the rural economy and to continue to grow rural America."

Will that thank you (ph) with the President?

TALEV: Who could possibly have seen this coming answer? Everyone should assume this coming. So I think here's the thing to watch and the person to watch. Larry Kudlow, counter (ph) replacement at the NEC beginning his new role. We saw him in the eastern earlier this week for that news conference with the Baltic leaders. He's now beginning to engage a little bit on TV, a little bit mixing it up with reporters, but sort of carefully finding his footing (ph). He's going to be a really important voice in influencing both what the President does and how the President talks about this going forward.

KING: To that very point, Larry Kudlow out here yesterday again today saying everybody calm down. These are announced tariffs but they're not an active tariffs. It takes months for them to actually get into place. So that's the big question. Everyone is, you know, to calm down, this may not ever happen. We're going to negotiate with China now, negotiate with others. We just needed to send a signal.

That's the question. The President often does is he disrupts as a huge dust-up and then he say, don't worry, we're going to work this out calmly after you've created turmoil in the market, turmoil in this Midwest state. Listen to Larry Kudlow today saying, hey look, the President had to do this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KUDLOW, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER: Once in a while, Presidents have to lead, OK? I've been around a while, I've worked with President three to five years ago and he had to lead. That's what he's trying to do.

(INAUDIBLE)

KUDLOW: Don't beat him up for time just leadership, and created this. China created this. Don't forget that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: His right. He is right on the facts that China is not a fair actor, a good actor in the global trading market, it isn't. And the President campaigned on this, he has every right to stand up in China, every reason to stand up in China, but the question is, is announcing this in scaring farmers, injecting volatility in the markets and then saying, but don't worry, we're going to work on it calmly. Is it right way to do it? Do you have to do get China's attention that way at the price of American farmers?

MATTINGLY: It might not be, when we think it would be the right way to do it, but it's the Trump way of doing it, right? We've seen it repeatedly over and over again. And the interesting, I mean, you can look at the market over the course of the last 24 hours, talking to market participants from my old job when I was covering Econ, and they were all saying, look, we've got news of this being the way things, you know, big, bold pronouncement then slow, walk back and some kind of, I wouldn't say pragmatic but some type of middle ground solution whether is exemptions or ways around it or things to that nature.

What they expect, Larry Kudlow kind of put truth to that statement when he came out and spoke. And that's why I think Margaret's point is really important. I would note two small things. First stuff, go to Bloomberg and look at their data visualization in terms of where the impact if this is actually going to be. It's excellent. It's my former employer, her current employer.

It's a great way of looking at the clash between two of the most important things to President Trump. His electoral success and his gut instincts on trade. And how that's going to shape up over the course in the next couple of few weeks and months is going to be fascinating to watch.

TALEV: And watch the market.

KING: To your point about Kudlow, though, the market was down 5 to 10 points yesterday. Larry Kudlow rushed out to say, everybody calm down. This is just a plan, it's not a deal yet. The market is up today. So Larry Kudlow might be winning some favor with the brass as long as he doesn't kind of to make magazine coverage.

President Trump is a joint base Andrews at the moment, heading down as we just noted to West Virginia. You see Marine One there. He'll be talking tax cuts down there.

When we come back, the President is mad at his advisors because they wanted to stay in Syria, keep U.S. troops there. But he's letting them do that for now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:58:02] KING: Watch what the President does, not what he says is a vital Trump administration rule. And Syria policy is today's glaring lesson. The President wants to bring American troops home. And CNN has told he got irritated, very irritated in a big Tuesday meeting when most of his top advisors pushed back. Among those pushing back, the Pentagon Brass and the CIA Director Mike Pompeo, now inline of course to be the Secretary of State.

What did the President say? We're told he said Syria is a mess. That a deployment is a waste of money and that no good ever comes from American military adventures in the Middle East. That's what he said. What did he do? He told his team the mission can continue for now.

So the President is mad, he doesn't want to be there. He has publicly said several times it's time to get out. What's the deal now? Six months, officials say he wants a plan to get out in six months?

TALEV: Well, and let's just say that as a candidate, he was pretty critical of previous presidents who announced their timeline, so let's take that with a grain of context also. But I think the President is running up against a reality which is that much easier to campaign on principle than it is to govern because there are so many pieces to governing. If the U.S. pulls out, declares victory right now, ISIS has diminished and pulls out and everyone who is holding at the border goes flying right back in, all the gains (ph) are at risk, peoples, you know, children perished for nothing, et cetera.

And then on top of all of that, if he does decide to go through with threats to withdraw from the Iran plan and then just turns Syria over, you know, to the Iranians, and the Russians and Assad, he's going to have a lot of questions to answer, maybe not from his domestic political base, but from the rest of the country, the Republican leadership in the world and it may affect midterm elections. So he's got a very complicated sort of decision on his hands.

KING: And the complicated impulse is his -- there his impulse is the America first, I don't want to be there. I looked at the Bush administration, I looked at Obama.

TALEV: Yes.

KING: This isn't going to work, why are we there? Impulse against, to your point, you get out and now you create a vacuum and he'll get blamed if something bad happens.

HERNDON: And it impulses is he put himself into. I mean, with that off the cuff remark that he said before going through with his advisers and kind of running through this normal protocol, that's what put him in this situation that he's struggling to get out off.

KING: We'll see. All right, member of the press on the Roadside, West Virginia, thanks for joining us in INSIDE POLITICS. See you back here this time tomorrow. Wolf starts right now.