Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Police Identify Shooter; California Bar Shooting; Mueller's Team Begins Report. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 08, 2018 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I really appreciate it.

Thank you all so much for joining me today. "INSIDE POLITICS" with John King starts now.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Kate.

And welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thank you for sharing your day with us.

New CNN reporting on the special counsel investigation, including team Trump surprise at request for record about calls and visits by Roger Stone to Trump Tower.

Plus, more midterm wins for the Democrats. Two more suburban districts, long in Republican hands, now sending Democratic women to Washington for the next Congress.

And tragedy in southern California. A gunman walks into a crowded nightclub and opens fire. At least 12 people were killed, including a sheriff's deputy, who rushed in to confront the gunman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we were just dancing on the floor. We heard a couple of shots. I told, you know, her to get down, all my friends to get down. We went in behind the -- we stayed behind the stage and got out, went through the kitchen, went through the backdoor. She got out. I went in and got, you know, got some more people to get out. And just -- we just tried to get out, get behind a car, get behind something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The shooting was on that side. So then our friends got the bar stools and they just (INAUDIBLE) against the windows so we could get out. That's how we were able to get out, they broke the window.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And we begin the hour there, the site of those tears, Thousand Oaks, California. Twelve people are dead after a gunman opened fire at a local bar late Wednesday night. Police have identified the shooter as a 28 year old, Ian David Long, a former Marine, they say. Police believe he took his own life after shooting others. Last night was college country night at the Borderline Bar and Grill.

Students from nearby colleges, as young as 18, line dancing, enjoying time with friends. Witnesses say a man, dressed in black, entered the bar, and without saying a word, began to fire into the crowd with a handgun. One young man says hit the floor with his friends, trapped until they saw a chance to escape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT WENNERSTROM, SHOOTING WITNESS: When there was a pause in the -- in the bullets and the shot sounds, we -- we actually got up and I watched one of my friends throw a stool through the window and a couple more of us threw stools through the windows and we -- we got everyone together and pushed as many people out of that window as we could until there was just three or four of us left. And when -- while we were jumping out, we heard the next round of shots coming. We jumped down to the lower level and we just basically push and moved as many people as we could down as far away as we could.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Law enforcement was on the scene within minutes. The first officer through the door, Sergeant Ron Helus, a veteran of the force with three decades of experience. He was shot, later died from his wounds at the hospital. When officers entered the bar a second time, they found the suspect dead. Now parents and loved ones anxiously awaiting for news about those who were inside the bar. Police have not yet released the names of the victims, but one man says he fears his son may have run towards the gunman, instead of away from him. He tells CNN, he was able to track his son's phone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": What happens when you call his cell phone?

JASON COFFMAN, SON MISSING AFTER SHOOTING: It -- nothing. It just rings. Rings and rings.

CAMEROTA: Do you have one of the tracking apps on your phone to see where his phone is?

COFFMAN: I do. I do. And it's -- it's there.

CAMEROTA: It's at the club?

COFFMAN: It's not moving. It's not moving. That's the problem.

CAMEROTA: So you can tell that his phone is at the club?

COFFMAN: His phone is at the club, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: CNN's Nick Watt joins me live from the scene in Thousand Oaks, California. Nick, what are we learning about this gunman?

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, as you said, he is a 28- year-old local man. He's a United States Marine Corps veteran. He served in Afghanistan for seven months between 2010 and 2011. He was an infantry machine gunner, apparently honorably discharged back in 2013.

Now, we also heard from the sheriff this morning that he had had some minor brushes with the law. He was apparently the victim in a bar fight back in 2015, a couple of minor traffic incidents. But most interestingly in April of this year, deputies were called to his home after reports of an incident. He was -- Long was reported to be irate at the time. Mental health specialists were brought in, but they decided not to detain him on those -- on mental health grounds. The sheriff did say that post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, was a consideration at the time, but he was not taken into custody.

Now, we know that last night he drove a car to the bar. We don't know if it was his car. He was dressed in black according to eyewitness. And he was armed with a Glock 45 pistol with an extended magazine. He shot the security guard outside. He walked in. He shot at people around the door, employees and patrons. He killed 11 people inside that bar plus the 12th, the sergeant, who was sent.

[12:05:13] He was -- the sergeant was sitting in his car, in his cruiser, on the phone with his wife when the call came in. He was at the scene within three minutes. He and a highway patrolman went into the premises. They heard fire. They knew people needed help. And that sergeant was shot and died later of his wounds.

Now, what we don't know is we do not know a motive. We do not know why this man did this. We do know that they -- that authorities want to search his house. The last we heard is that they were waiting for a search warrant and we have not confirmed yet whether they have gone in to find out -- to try and find out why this man killed 12 people here in Thousand Oaks, California, last night.

Back to you, John.

KING: Horrific details. Nick Watt, appreciate the live reporting on the investigation. Come back if we learn anything new.

Joining me now to share their expertise and insights, CNN's Shimon Prokupecz and Josh Campbell, former FBI supervisory special agent.

Josh, you're there at the scene. I listened to the sheriff's briefing earlier. They're still waiting to give us more information, especially about motive, especially about whether they can say why at this bar. What did you learn listening to that and what are you learning on the scene there?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So there's a multifaceted effort underway here with this investigation. The sheriff mentioned that the crime scene behind us will take some time to process. Obviously we've been learning from official that the scene inside is very gruesome, as we could expect. You know, in these kind of situations, we obviously have multiple victims, there were multiple injuries. So that's the forensic investigation part that will be ongoing.

There's also the investigation into the shooter himself. And as Nick mentioned, this was someone who was known to law enforcement. And, you know, in a law enforcement -- any agency when an official has to come forward and say that someone who acted with violence, to commit some type of violent act like this was known to law enforcement, that is obviously something that gives us pause.

We know this person was actually consulted or, you know, talked to law enforcement officials about a potential mental health issue. They determined that he wasn't at the level where they would actually commit him, you know, under California law. So, again, there are a lot of questions that remain as far as were there missed signals here.

And then there's also the piece -- you know, we're learning that he was actually in the Marine Corps. So the Defense Department, obviously, now involved in this investigation as well to try to provide additional details, information, about the shooter's background, again to try to build out the full picture of who this person was.

And then lastly, John, Nick mentioned that the search warrant of the residence, which is pending, will also provide additional clues. They want to know, you know, was there perhaps a letter or a manifesto, something that got left behind that may provide some kind of insight and then anything about social media, his background, his associates, all part of the lengthy, ongoing investigation.

KING: And, Shimon, we heard the sheriff say they're working with their partners at ATF to try to figure out the handgun, when was it purchased, was it purchased legally. What else can they find out about that. What are the other big questions?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: I think the magazine is going to be a question here certainly. And there may be a reason why the sheriff brought it up, the extended magazine. I think there's going to -- there needs to be some questions asked about that. When did he purchase it? Did he purchase it in -- particular to this incident? Was he using it for something else? Because that could obviously go to motive and planning and all that other information. So that to me.

And I also think, as we've been pointing out, this April, this -- police went to the home. They got a call that he was irate. That there were problems. They called in mental health officials. We need to know about that. What happened there? Why did the mental health officials feel that they didn't need to detain him? It's clear that they knew probably that he had a weapon. They didn't remove his weapon.

This gun appears to have been legally purchased. At least that's what the sheriff said earlier. So, you know, there's still -- there's going to be a lot of questions. And I think that's where the search warrant, and as they start going through his phones and his computers, we're going to start seeing more and more.

But there's nothing in his social media. You know, usually we see stuff early on in social media. Our teams have been digging through some of that. We haven't found anything yet. Certainly we've seen a lot of his military background on some of the social media, but nothing that would lend to any kind of motive.

KING: Nothing that suggests violence or anger of late here.

PROKUPECZ: Nothing yet.

KING: And, Josh, back at the scene, number one, we're obviously -- the community and all of us should pay tribute to the hero, a sheriff who ran in -- ran in because he heard gunshots and knew someone needed -- I heard they sheriff explaining, you know, they do the drills on active shooters. In terms of the procedures follow, what the off duty law enforcement officers inside, one of the parents saying shielded her daughter. Take us -- take us to the best degree you can into how law enforcement responded to the scene and the heroism involved in that.

CAMPBELL: Yes, you nailed it, John. I mean as far as heroism, this sergeant who is now deceased, gave his life in the line of duty trying to protect others. We talk about so many of these incidents, how post Columbine now law enforcement, they won't rally around and wait for backup. They actually go in, go to the scene, go to the sound of the gunfire in order to stop the threat, in order to stop the loss of life. That's exactly what happened here within minutes, law enforcement officers showed up after getting the first 911 call.

We heard the story of the sergeant going in. He received gunfire. And it was actually one of his colleagues from the California Highway Patrol who was able to pull him out and drag him out in order to find a safe position. Obviously, he did succumb to his wounds later on.

[12:10:10] But, again, this was a textbook case of law enforcement going in to protect lives. He lost his life in the line of duty. And, as you mentioned, there were off duty officers that were inside that were, you know, enjoying a night out here in Thousand Oaks, California. We're told that they weren't armed, but they were using themselves as shields to help other victims. Just a story of heroism all around for law enforcement here in California.

KING: And the sheriff, Shimon, was asked about motive and he said, we don't know yet. He did say, based on their inform now, and obviously they're going to interview dozens of witnesses, and sometimes something jumps out, they collate everything and put it together, he said he just appeared to walk in and start shooting randomly. They didn't think that he went in looking for anyone in particular.

PROKUPECZ: No. They gave such a detailed description of when he walked in. He walked in. He went to the right. Like, so they have -- they've talked to a lot of witnesses. There may be video inside the establishment that they have. So they could see his movement. And it just seemed that he was firing at random. We don't know how many shots he had fired. Look, there's still a lot of questions and I think this is going to take a little time. They're going to build out a timeline for us to know what his movement was in the last 24 hours, who he was in touch with. And then his mother. You know, he's living with his mother. According to neighbors, they've seen him. They say he's a very private guy. A lot of questions there as well. So what did she know? And what was -- what was his mood sort of like in the last few days?

KING: Right. And the sheriff saying they'll be there 15 to 20 hours or more recreating, if you will, (INAUDIBLE) the crime scene.

PROKUPECZ: So important always.

KING: Shimon Prokupecz, appreciate it. Josh Campbell as well.

Before we go to break, show you a live look at the White House. The flag being flown at half-staff to pay tribute to the 12 victims. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:46] KING: Important new CNN reporting now in the president's search for a new attorney general and on the special counsel's efforts to report his major findings. CNN has learned Robert Mueller's team is in the process of writing a final report. This as very important new questions are raised about Mueller's future with yesterday's firing of Attorney General Jeff Sessions and the new acting attorney general's history with criticizing the scope of the special counsel investigation. Matthew Whitaker was Sessions' chief of staff before being tapped by the president to take over as acting attorney general. He previously serve as a U.S. attorney in Iowa, was an unsuccessful candidate for Senate in 2014.

With me to share their reporting and their insights, CNN's legal affairs analyst Carrie Cordero, Michael Zeldin, and CNN's Evan Perez.

Evan, I want to start with your reporting, and it's extensive.

One of the things you say has happened, as the president is preparing his written answers, reviewing them to give to Robert Mueller, team Trump has been surprised by request for information about Roger Stone either calling or possibly calling or possibly visiting Trump Tower. That would be hugely significant, the timing of that if it happened, because of the allegations he was somehow in touch with WikiLeaks and Julian Assange and knew what was coming.

Tell us what we know.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Exactly. And that's the surprise here is that this request was made as recently as a month ago, John. And we know that Roger Stone has been a focus of this investigation, certainly part of this investigation that deals with the question of collusion. For months and months he's been -- he's had about nine of his associates hauled before the grand jury or to provide testimony to Mueller. So the idea that this request for records -- call records and visitor logs to Trump Tower from Roger Stone, that that would be coming about a month ago is a bit of a surprise.

Now, this could indicate a couple of things. You know, we don't know whether this means that they're getting closer to an indictment on Roger Stone or whether they're struggling to bring such a case. But it certainly indicates that they're trying to figure out whether it is some timing here that works with a story that they are putting together, a narrative, for perhaps an indictment.

KING: And as the president finishes, I'll use that term, you tell me if it's wrong, his written answers to Mueller's questions, is it cynical, curious, what's the right word to connect the timing to he's working on this now and he decides his attorney general has to go?

PEREZ: Look, I think they believe that this is one of the final pieces before the end of this investigation. They -- all indications are that it's close to wrapping up. And so this is the take home test that we can refer to, right? The president is working with his lawyers to provide these written answers to Mueller. And then they believe, once they've got that, then they can tell Mueller, look, we've given everything you need, time to wrap this up.

KING: If you are the new acting attorney general and it's pretty clear -- it seems to be at least -- that he's not going to be the next attorney general. Maybe that's not true, but that's more -- the indications we're getting from the White House. What are the ethical guidelines on him if -- Matt Whitaker is now in charge of Robert Mueller. If Robert Mueller came to you today or tomorrow and said, I want to do this, or I'm planning to do this, here's my probable cause, I need your approval, can Matthew Whitaker pick up the phone and tip off the White House?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He certainly could. I mean the attorney general is the one who sets the policies about contacts between Justice Department lawyers and Justice Department leadership and the White House.

KING: So it's up to him?

CORDERO: And so it is literally up to the attorney general and he now is the acting attorney general, today at least. And so it -- he could change the policy. Interestingly, Attorney General Sessions, as far as I know, he had kept the same policy in place that had been in place from the prior administration as far as contacts between the White House and the Justice Department.

KING: You -- you know --

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: But the implications of those policies, you're exactly right, but the implication of those policies is, don't have those communications when the target or subject of the inquiry is the president of the United States. So he has the authority perhaps, but all of the indications are is that those policies are in place to avoid that exact situation.

KING: Let's listen to Matthew Whitaker and let's be -- also be fair to Matthew Whitaker. This is in July 2017. He was not at the Justice Department. He was a private citizen. He was on a CNN program here as a contributor. He had written a piece as a contributor. But listen to his views here about the special counsel.

[12:20:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW WHITAKER, FORMER CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: I can see a scenario where Jeff Sessions is replaced with a recess appointment and that attorney general doesn't fire Bob Mueller, but he just reduces his budget so low that his investigation grinds to an absolute -- almost a halt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And he has said and he has written other things about how you could -- you know, he thought the scope was too great. Thought it should be more narrow. Ways to choke it off, if you will, or limit it and restrict it. Again, private citizen. Has First Amendment rights. Now he's in charge of Bob Mueller. You -- you're familiar with Bob Mueller. You used to work with Bob Mueller. What's Bob Mueller thinking right now?

ZELDIN: Well, I think that Bob Mueller is probably not happy about the loss of Rosenstein, if, in fact, Rosenstein is going to be removed. It's not clear what role Rosenstein will have in this 210-day period that Whitaker is there as acting attorney general. Whitaker would be advised, I think, to keep Rosenstein in place and let Rosenstein play out this last leg of the investigation.

But Whitaker also has to face ethics issues with respect to whether or not he can pass the test of the office of professional responsibility rules of overseeing an investigation that he has a predetermined point of view with respect to, if I'm reading these rules, the 28-CFR-45.2, I'm saying there's no way he can oversee this investigation. He's conflict and he shouldn't.

PEREZ: Yes, but those rules -- right, but those rules, I think, you know, and what we're talking about is an appearance of conflict. And I think that's what the big difference between what Matt Whitaker's place is and where Jeff Sessions was. Jeff Sessions was part of the campaign that's under investigation.

ZELDIN: But the --

PEREZ: Matt Whitaker has made comments as a private citizen. He wasn't briefed on the investigation at the time. And I think you could make a -- I think he's prepared to make a case, a strong case, that appearance of conflict is not enough.

CORDERO: But that's so bad for the department and for the investigation.

PEREZ: Right.

CORDERO: Appearance of impropriety really does matter. And if he does what he should do, he should -- he should --

PEREZ: Right, he wouldn't be required.

CORDERO: He should ask for the advice of the career ethics officials within the Justice Department to advise him whether he should recuse. But given the public attention to this and the appearance of impropriety, I think he should recuse from it. And, by the way, there's also a real legal question as to whether or not his appointment as attorney general is even lawful because he has never been in a Senate-confirmed position.

PEREZ: Well, he was a former -- he was a confirmed U.S. attorney for Iowa. So he has previously been --

CORDERO: In the past, though, but then he went into private sector.

PEREZ: In the past, right.

CORDERO: And he came back. So that's different.

ZELDIN: The way -- the way the rule works is either Senate confirmed, which he doesn't have --

KING: Right.

ZELDIN: Or having served as an official in that department for more than 90 days at above a GS 15 level. He meets that. But I think Carrie's point is correct, which is, there is a succession order, 28 U.S. Code 508, that says, when the person is fired, which is what Sessions was, then they -- the rule is the deputy takes over.

KING: Right.

ZELDIN: So they've end runned (ph) this, if that's a word. They've made an end run around this, which I -- to Carrie's point, which --

CORDERO: My point is slightly different though.

KING: Which in -- which in January is going to bring a ton of you know what because the Democrats will control the House and they will have hearings.

But we are sitting here in early November and we've got the rest of November and all of December and then the Democrats (INAUDIBLE) later in January.

This is -- my question is, if you're -- the White House says there will be no hanky panky here. We'll take them at their word until we know otherwise. But if you're suspicious of that, you have this period now where the Republicans are still in charge. They've shown no indication. They just want to run Rod Rosenstein out of town. They've shown no indication of actually caring about legitimate oversight of this. What happens?

PERES: Well, here's the thing, I mean the important thing to consider is that if indeed Mueller is almost finished and he completes the report, prepares it and provides it to Matt Whitaker, Matt Whitaker is now in charge of making important decisions. If there's any -- let's say -- let's say Mueller has decided that he wants to charge someone very close to the president. Whitaker is in control of whether that decision goes forward. He's in charge of whether or not the -- parts of the report are being public or whether they go to Congress. I mean there's a lot of important things. So the president has now put someone he trusts in charge of the final product of Robert Mueller.

Look, that's not the end of this, because, as you said, the Democrats are going to have a say eventually, but I think it's an important thing to think about.

KING: And when you say writing the report, do we know it's a final report or an interim report or what do we --

PEREZ: We believe it's only one report.

KING: Right.

PEREZ: I mean there's not going to be -- you know, I think Mueller -- Mueller is very much I think on the point that this is not something he wants to -- he doesn't believe should be going on forever.

CORDERO: He can also help -- he can also help -- approve -- decide whether or not certain matters can be referred to other components of the Justice Department. A lot of what Mueller has done has referred cases to the national security division, referred them to the U.S. Attorney's Office --

KING: District in New York, right.

CORDERO: And then that way those cases were able to continue no matter what happens to Mueller.

But just one -- to follow-up on our earlier point. My point is actually a constitutional one, which is that the appointments clause requires that principal officers, which the attorney general is, requires Senate confirmation. And that's one of the additional issues on his appointment.

[12:25:01] ZELDIN: Can I add just one thing too, to what has been said, which is that the one thing that's important for Whitaker to be mindful of is that the report that Evan's talking about is a confidential report to the attorney general. That's all Mueller's allowed to do. If, however, Whitaker denies Mueller the right to proceed, then that has to be reported to the Senate Judiciary and Intelligence Committees for their determination. So he has the chance to blow this thing wide open into public space if he denies Mueller what Mueller wants to do.

KING: So there is built in to the statute some protection, the check of Congress.

PEREZ: Right.

KING: And we shall see as this plays out. Appreciate you all coming in.

PEREZ: Exactly.

KING: It's an interesting moment, shall we say, to use a neutral term.

Up next, families await news of their loved ones after that horrible mass shooting in California.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)