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116TH Congress Gets Sworn in Tomorrow; House Dems to Vote to Reinstate Gephardt Rule; U.S. Consular Officials Visit Detained American in Russia; Harry Reid Reflects on His Life, Legacy, and Donald Trump. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 02, 2019 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] 5PHI MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRRESPPONDENT: -- his immigration views diverged pretty sharply from where the president's are. Also have some investigative authority.

Keep on eye on that panel, I know Seung Min Kim will be very keeping our very close eye on Lindsey Graham.

And the last one is Mark Meadows. And the interesting story here is for months, the story is when and if Republicans lose majority in the House, the Freedom Caucus is essentially dead and gone because I hate to talk much on the secret but the minority in the House has no power and really generally doesn't matter.

But if you want to see whether or not Mark Meadows still has power in the House, take a look at the 12th day of the government shutdown that we're currently in. A shutdown that Mark Meadows, who's very close to the president continually urged the president to maintain the fight on. Meadows continues to talk to the president, Meadows continues to have influence in the president. So while he might not be able to do much on the House floor in terms of policy changes, he certainly can with his voice.

And if you don't believe me, take a listen to how he reads things.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARK MEADOWS (R), CHAIRMAN, FREEDOM CAUCUS: I've had discussions that you know with the president in his team directly.

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR: Have you talked to him since Saturday? And if you have, what is -- have you had a chance to speak with him since you met with him on Saturday?

MEADOWS: Well, I have.

Mr. President, we're going to back you up if you veto this bill.

There needs to be someone to support this president and making sure that we indeed make America great again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Again, I think one of the wildest things here is the death of the Freedom Caucus has been greatly exaggerated to some degree.

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Exactly. But their influence will diminish somewhat because they are more powerful in the majority when they do have the power to stop legislation. Stop initiatives from the leadership to -- that they don't want, that they don't support. But clearly Mark Meadows is going to continue to have that close relationship with Trump. He was in the mix for the chief of staff position once upon a time and you can get a lot of kind of what Trump is thinking from what Meadows says to reporters on Capitol Hill.

But look, House Democrats once they officially get the majority tomorrow, it could have kind of a Freedom Caucus faction of their own as well. And we'll see what happens once the votes actually begin. But you see a progressive revolt already happening over a simple rules package that House Democratic leaders released last night. Don't want to get too, you know, too technical.

(CROSSTALK)

KIM: (INAUDIBLE) on this panel. But this rules package is incredibly critical, the House can't operate without it. And already you have Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ro Khanna threatening the vote against it because of these obscure, what we called PAYGO provisions. They say, it's not -- they say, basically it will hamstring progressive policies and their agenda.

So that first -- that could be Pelosi's first real House speaker, not even a shutdown vote.

MATTINGLY: Right, out of the gate. Look, one of the interesting things with any new freshman class, they're stars and there's a lot of heat and light. And take a look at what Elle Magazine had 36 new female members of the House reciting the preamble here. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK: We the people --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the people --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the people of the United States in order to form a more perfect union --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Establish justice --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ensure domestic tranquility --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Provide for the common defense --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Promote a general welfare --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do ordain --

(Foreign Language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: You've got the Elle treatment -- I mean, it's a powerful video there. You got Elle treatment, you got Democrats posing in Vanity Fair at this point in time. I guess my biggest question is, freshmen often come in with grand plans and lots of enthusiasm and then often recede to the reality of how (INAUDIBLE).

CARL HULSE, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: It is hard to have influence as a new member. But I do think the look of the House Democratic side of the room is going to be so different tomorrow with all these new women. And it's going to be a pretty sharp contrast to the fewer women in the House Republican conference.

I do think that, you know, there's been a lot of emphasis on the progressives here who are going to be pushing against Nancy Pelosi. But there's also a new element of the House caucus that are women who have some national security grounding a little bit. I think of Abigail Spanberger who won in a Republican district in Virginia. And you get a little credit, extra credit for winning in the other party's district and she had worked at the CIA which became exposed during her campaign. And I think she's representative of a group who is going to offer something of a counter to the really push from the left that Pelosi faces.

So the left right now is getting a lot of attention. But you have to remember, they got their majority by winning in Republican and swing districts. And you're going to have to take care of that faction of the party.

MATTINGLY: Yes. I think this is -- people are sleeping on the fact that the (INAUDIBLE) in the Democratic caucus -- and a lot of these people are coming from Trump- won districts.

HULSE: Right.

MATTINGLY: And they aren't necessarily -- they might not have the best Instagram or comparable Instagram but they will have a lot of weight.

HULSE: And you mentioned Cheri Bustos too who comes from that, you know, my home state of Illinois and she's emblematic to me too of some of a -- of a new movement in the House of women who are coming up.

[12:35:00] MATTINGLY: Carl, I want to go and I want to stick with you for one second because this is a really important moment. This is our nerd alert segment which we invented.

Seung Min was talking about the rules package.

HULSE: Right. MATTINGLY: Democrats are also doing -- have something in that rules package related to the Gephardt Rule. We are not going to talk about CUTGO and PAYGO. But I'd like you to explain the Gephardt Rule and because it could be enormously significant.

HULSE: You mean about the debt?

MATTINGLY: Potentially, yes.

HULSE: Right. So, the Democrats back in the day figured out a way to get the debt limit increased without having to really take a vote on it. And of course that became a big problem when the Republicans used that as leverage against the Democrats and Obama to cut spending, a thing they seem they have forgotten a little bit about these days.

So, you know, to restore that takes away a weapon that can be used against Democrats to force spending reductions. I think you're going to see -- she mentioned PAYGO and I hate to even say those words on T.V. but I think you're going to see a lot of emphasis around this with the deficit and how you're going to handle spending because I do think you're now going to hear from Republicans, especially in the House, they're out of power, we need some cuts now that we're not there.

So, the Democrats are trying to protect themselves with the Gephardt Rule named for Dick Gephardt, the former House majority leader all these many years ago.

MATTINGLY: And that has been your nerd alert.

And before we go to break, we did just give you the nerd alert. And now here's a history lesson. It was on this day in 1960 that then Senator John F. Kennedy announced he was running for president on that old time newsreel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Senator John Kennedy of Massachusetts, Democrat, throws his hat in the presidential ring at a Washington press conference.

JOHN F. KENNEDY (D), FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: The presidency is the most powerful office in the free world. Through its leadership can come a more vital life for all of our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:28] MATTINGLY: Topping our political radar, White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke are officially leaving the Trump administration today. The departures come amid a staff shake-up and multiple ethics investigations into Zinke. Zinke tweeted a short time ago it's been a, quote, high honor to serve. President Trump's acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney has already moved into Kelly's former office. Joe Biden getting a high-profile vote of confidence today. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo was asked to weigh in on the 2020 presidential race. On WAMC radio this morning, he says Biden has the, quote, best case of all the names in the mix. He says Biden knows how to fly the plane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW COUMO (D), NEW YORK: You don't hire an airline pilot who has never flown a plane. Where is the credibility in your argument? Joe Biden can say, I was there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, just --

COUMO: I was not the president but I was the second seat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And tomorrow, Nancy Pelosi is set to become the speaker of the House. Pelosi is no rookie. She held the speakership under President George W. Bush and Obama. And Pelosi's daughter, Alexandra Pelosi was rather blunt this morning describing her style.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDRA PELOSI, NANCY PELOSI'S DAUGHTER: She'll cut your head off and you won't even know you're bleeding. That's all you need to know about her.

No one ever won betting against Nancy Pelosi. She's persevered. You got to give her credit. No matter what you think of her, you have to give her credit because she -- think about it, think about all those presidents she's endured, right. She was the Bush, the Bush, the Clintons, you know, she's been through it all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINBLY: Mr. Hulse, you have covered --

HULSE: Yes, I agree with that comment not only have I seen her do that to people, I've had it done to me. And it is very effective and all of a sudden you're standing there, go, wow, I just really got a whack by the speaker of the House.

I won't say about the Joe Biden comment. I hope he doesn't read that and think he actually can really fly the plane. You know that's one of those things that maybe he thinks he'll be the pilot. But, Nancy Pelosi is -- can -- is very depth. I think that she is the pick that the Democrats decided. She's the person to take on Trump for that very reason that her daughter talking about.

MATTINGLY: She is being tested right out of the gate once again.

HULSE: I think she likes the test.

MATTINGLY: Oh, I don't think she has any problem at these moments. HULSE: She likes the challenge.

MATTINGLY: Yes. And they have done that and keep doing it.

All right, up next, the U.S. pushes for release of an American detained in Russia on spying allegations. Some details emerged about his military record.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:48:12] MATTINGLY: New details on the American citizen detained in Russia on espionage allegations. Russia now says Paul Whelan has been granted consular access. That comes as Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says the U.S. is pushing for Whelan's release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRERATY OF STATE: We've made clear to the Russians our expectation that we will learn more about the charges and come to understand what it is he's been accused of. And if the detention is not appropriate, we will demand his immediate return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Let's bring in CNN's Michelle Kosinski. And Michelle, there hasn't been a ton of information up to this point. Where do you know -- or where are you hearing things stand right now?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly, even just to hear the secretary of state there say, they hope to come to an understanding and learn more about what exactly he's been charged with. I mean, he was detained on the 28th. So it's now been five days and we're hearing virtually nothing from the State Department. We do expect to hear something from them soon.

But the secretary of state himself there obviously doesn't know much detail. We don't know why the Russians aren't giving them this information or there hasn't been this exchange. But we found out that he was accused of an act of espionage from the Russians. We also found out from the Russians not from the United States that he was able to have some consular access today.

So someone from the U.S. side this afternoon was able to meet with Paul Whelan. He's 48-years-old, he's the director of global security for an automotive supply company, he lives in Michigan. He was in Russia for a wedding. He got there on the 22nd of December. When he didn't show up for the wedding, his friends were the ones who reported him missing. So only now do we know that he's been detained all this time and accused of spying.

[12:50:02] Why is the big question here? We know a little bit about his background that he's been going to Russia for a while. He's made multiple trips there. He's something of a Russophile. He's had a Russian social media account for more than a decade. He's posted all kinds of things on there. He has contacts in Russia and friends that he keeps up with and he was also a member of the military. He was in the marines. He was in the military for 14 years and was discharged in 2008 for bad conduct. What we're told by the military is that there were several charges related to larceny.

So, the big question is why the Russians targeted him, accused him with spying, and these details are what, not only we but his family and the secretary of state all are trying to figure out right now, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, still so many more questions than answers. Michelle Kosinski on the (INAUDIBLE), thank you very much.

Up next, former Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid reflects on his life and legacy. Had some choice words for President Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:34] MATTINGLY: Harry Reid does not have long to live. That's the remarkably blunt takeaway from a new profile in the New York Times. And one that's true to form for a Senate leader known for his frankness. Reid was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer last May. And he's more or less cut out of the clinical spotlight since retiring in 2017 after five terms in the Senate.

In his new interview, Reid is as opinionated as ever, particularly about President Trump saying, quote, Trump is an interesting person. He is not immoral but is amoral. Amoral is when you shoot someone in the head and it doesn't make a difference. No conscience.

I think he is without question the worst president we've ever had. We've had some bad ones and there's not even a close second to him. He'll lie, he'll cheat, you can't reason with him. I think he's a person who is oblivious to the real world.

Tell us how you really feel, Senator Reid.

HULSE: Right. I don't think that Harry Reid is facing the end of his life, he's going to hold back. You know, he is a very outspoken person. He and Trump kind of had a relationship previous to Trump running and they both like boxing and had that in common. But, you know, Reid had just really had no patience for Trump.

Reid also thinks that there was not enough coverage of the Russian meddling before the election and also still remains upset about that. So, you know, Harry Reid is going to deliver some punches at the end.

ELIANA JOHNSON, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: I'm sure Trump will be very gracious.

MATTINGLY: Oh, yes. No I'm actually surprised. He's got a busy schedule today, or I'm sure we would have heard back.

CATHERINE LUCEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: It also seemed as if he was almost a little wishful that he couldn't be here himself for the fight.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

LUCEY: I mean, that was one of the takeaways on the story was that Reid, you know, he was famed for his, you know, for his tactics and maybe would have kind of liked to take this on himself.

MATTINGLY: Which is kind of the interesting question. The things have almost evolved to a point where this would be a Harry Reid moment of just bare knuckle brass knuckle, let's rock and roll, bleed each other out type fighting and he's not here. But I think what I was interested in for is that he doesn't just seem nostalgic. Other Democrats (INAUDIBLE) kind of seem to say, we wish Harry was here to some degree.

KIM: Exactly. I mean, he really did commit. Even though there were a block of Democrats who voted against him in his last run as the Democratic leader, he really did command the loyalty from the rest of his caucus. Because he, you know, he work on behalf of them. He put them out front, got them what they needed for their own respective political interest.

I found my -- the most interesting part about that piece for me was how he talked about Chuck Schumer and then how he talks about Nancy Pelosi. First of all, he's try to, you know, give the sense that look at, you know, hands-off, I don't talk to Chuck very often. He's doing his own thing as leader, and then on the next press he says, I love Nancy Pelosi. We call all the time and talk about the great days.

And they do have a lot of shared victories. I mean, Nancy Pelosi right, she gets a lot of the credit for passing the Affordable Care Act as speaker, but it was Harry Reid in the Senate that did all the procedural jiu jitsu once the Democrats lost the 60 votes to get that bill pass. So, I do imagine of Pelosi and Reid do have a lot to talk about these days.

HULSE: I think that Reid also, you know, because of what's happening with the judiciary and some of the Democrats and Chuck Schumer have sort of backed away from that decision in 2013 to change the rules, that has been recognized by Harry Reid. I also think it's funny, he's back in the news the same day as Mitt Romney because of course he was a terrible scourge to Mitt Romney and demanding his taxes and saying he'd never paid his tax. That was a Harry Reid tactic.

MATTINGLY: Eliana, you're a keen political observer in the last 30 seconds. Is this moment made for Harry Reid but Harry Reid is not here.

JOHNSON: I think it is. I mean, there's a lot of talk in looking forward to the Democratic 2020 primary but who's the sort of person who can take on Trump? And I think it is somebody like Harry Reid who has appealed to the working class and who can really brawl with Trump. You see a fear of Joe Biden and maybe of Sherrod Brown but I think Trump may have met his match in Harry Reid who is not here.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's a -- I think you two have had many interactions with him that I've watched that were always were rather humorous. He was nothing if not cutting in blunt in his assessment of all things. All right, that's going to do it for us today.

Thanks for joining us on INSIDE POLITICS. Brianna Keilar, starts for now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Briana Keilar, live from CNN's Washington headquarters.