Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

2020 Dems Take Their Message to Black Voters; Giuliani Tries To Clean Up Trump Tower Moscow Comments; 2017 Rep. Jeffries Sidesteps Calling Trump "Racist". Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 22, 2019 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:01]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: You're just back from South Carolina where I think he said something to you that was, shall we say, a little different.

JONATHAN MARTIN, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, Mr. Clyburn is there with his convention bureau hat on trying to invite everybody down to boost the economy of the whole out of state.

But, I talked to him last week for some time and he is very close to Joe Biden. And what he told me was, if Joe Biden gets in the race, it's a race for second place. Now, there's a lot of Democrats in South Carolina who are less certain about that.

KING: There are a lot of Democrats in South Carolina going back 10 years who said, this was a Hillary Clinton State because of the Clinton's relationship with the African-American community. Robert (ph) proved he was reliable and gone.

MARTIN: And so Barack Obama.

So, look, I think that Biden has a lot of good room, let's say, among from a establishment politicians, he's a formidable candidate there.

But, having just spent time there on the (INAUDIBLE) yesterday, talking to both politicians and just average voters, I got to tell you, the folks who get the most chatter besides Biden, Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and to a lesser degree Beto O'Rourke. And I think, it's going to be fascinating to watch this week Kamala Harris coming in, speaking pride to her sorority which is having an event in Columbia.

Her candidacy is getting a lot of chatter down there, but it's still in the sort of form of curiosity. It's going -- it less support analysis. I just want to hear her and see what she's all about. That's sort of like key difference this time, I think, '08 and '16.

None of these candidates besides Biden are all that well-known. I mean, by this time in 2015 (ph) -- or 2007, Barack Obama was a pretty big name. Certainly Hillary Clinton was and the same can be said for Hillary in 2015 and 2016. None of these candidates are that well- known yet besides Biden.

KING: To that point let's see at the NPR Marist Poll, this is approval rating. It's approval rating.

So Joe Biden is off the charts because he's well-known among African- American voters. Bernie Sanders is well-known from the last campaign. Elizabeth Warren a national figure, then you see Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Beto O'Rourke, Michael Bloomberg. They're lower numbers that doesn't mean they won't have appeal among African- Americans or any Democratic voters.

MARTIN: Right.

KING: It's just they're not very well-known yet.

MARTIN: Yes.

KING: What's interesting to me is the issue subset and that the party is moving left on issues particularly in criminal justice reform. You write about Asma and you have Adrianne Shropshire, Executive Director of BlackPAC saying, "You see candidates entering these issues of racial justice. That just didn't happen in 2016 in the same way".

That is the Black Lives Matter movement and other issues even President Trump signing a criminal justice reform bill is what moving the party left?

ASMA KHALID, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Yes, exactly, I mean, couple of the people I spoke with for that story pointed to the fact that's the Black Lives Matter movement felt fairly new and during the 2016 cycle and some of the candidates candidly where they stumbled with how to respond to this. They didn't know what to do.

Now we're -- we have the benefit of two years, four years -- many of the candidates are potential candidates are talking in a far more nuanced way about police brutality and a need for criminal justices. And the other thing though I will say that they all pointed to, which I think is really important, is that the culture in this country has changed.

They feel largely because of racial tension that they attribute to President Trump. And so, all of the candidates just feel more comfortable talking about in centering race and racism because of the man in the White House.

MARTIN: And that point if you apply that politically starting with the Dem primary in Iowa and New Hampshire, too overwhelmed only white states, is going to feel increasingly a lot awkward for this party's coalition. Look, if go back the last few years, it's got a little bit tougher and tougher.

I think this time around, you're going to see some candidates take a really long look not at skipping Iowa and New Hampshire, but it may be downplaying them. Look, Kamala Harris going to South Carolina for her first early state trip on Friday instead of Iowa and New Hampshire, that's no accident.

KING: A crowded field allows you that luxury something. But the problem is if somebody takes off and when is the first two. MARTIN: Right.

KING: When you're sitting beside Harris --

MARTIN: Because the media is in Iowa or New Hampshire, right?

KING: That's Rudy Giuliani in part that place.

MARTIN: Correct.

KHALID: But that's a great --

MARTIN: But it's not skipping them, it's the emphasizing, right?

KHALID: And that's -- I was going to say, in Iowa and new Hampshire, this is both of them recently, everything you hear from the local activists they say, is you need to do well enough in one of our states. And I say, what's well enough? And they'll say top three.

And especially if you have a Booker who is paying more attention to New Hampshire which he has been.

KING: It's so wide open this could be pass --

KHALID: Yes.

MARTIN: And Nevada too, don't forget on Nevada.

KING: -- don't forget Nevada. Like Nevada, let's go right now.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: That's (INAUDIBLE), get it right.

[13:35:14] Up next, the celebrity Big Brother House makes room for -- oh, yes, "The Mooch".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Topping our political radar today, CNN has learned that the White House moving ahead in its preparation for the President's State of the Union Address. An official confirming to CNN, the White House has sent an e-mail to the House sergeant in arms to schedule a walk- through at the Capitol. This comes, of course, after Speaker Nancy Pelosi's request last week to postpone or relocate the address in light at the partial government shutdown.

One of President Trump's adviser says, the White House has actually discuss holding a rally instead, but for now, the White House wants to go forward with plans to deliver the State of the Union as scheduled at the Capitol. We'll see.

Republicans taking an important step they hope will lead to a giant leap in fundraising efficiency. They've reached an agreement to overhaul the parities fundraising apparatus so that small donations are collected on a centralized web platform that will be known as Patriot Pass. It's modeled after ActBlue, along established collection system that drove more than a billion dollar and small donations to Democrats and last year's midterm races.

Two films featuring prominent political figures among the nominees for this year's academy awards. "Vice", is up for eight Oscars including, Best Picture, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor and Actress and Best Actor for Christian Bale's portrayal of the former Vice President Dick Cheney.

Also nominated for Best Documentary, "RBG", the CNN film about Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg which is also up in the Best Song category.

[12:40:01] Primetime TV viewers getting a sense of what it's like to live with Anthony Scaramucci 24/7? The former White House Communications Director among those moving into the celebrity Big Brother House is Monday. The "Mooch" White House tenure lasted just 11 days you might recall said during last night's premiere, he still talk with the President probably once or twice a month and he showed a sense of humor about his firing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY "THE MOOCH" SCARAMUCCI, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: I haven't come across one person who doesn't think I'm nuts for going into the Big Brother House, which is probably the reason why I'm doing it, right?

It's going to last longer than my stint in the White House, God willing.

It started at the White House my first day with a chainsaw and a hockey mask.

I left a big mark there and I expect to leave a big mark in the Big Brother House too.

KING: Start the countdown clock.

Up next, what is Rudy Giuliani saying and is he even sure why he is saying it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:45:03] DONALD TRUMP JR, ELDEST SON OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They have been pushing this nonsense for two years. They've found nothing but any time there is a negative, any time there's a chance to get Trump, they're going to jump on it, because he's doing a great job.

Imagine what he could do without the noise, without the -- oh every day there's a new reason for impeachment. Let him do his job. That's the job he was elected to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Unambiguous, pretty easy to follow defense there from the President's son but something that has eluded the man who's supposed to be the President's chief legal and public defender.

Today, he had another interview from Rudy Giuliani has much during the questions about the lawyer's truthfulness. His grasp on his client's actions and his grasp on his own words.

Giuliani issued a statement on Monday intended to clarify other statements he made on television and to the "New York Times" over the weekend that negotiations on a Trump Moscow project run right up until the 2016 election.

Giuliani said he was speaking in the hypothetical and he didn't speak to the actual timing of the negotiations. Then Giuliani proceeded to blur the truth or his version of it even further. Asked by a New Yorker about those same statements that the discussion ran through the day that candidate Trump won, Giuliani said this, "I did not say that". Giuliani went on, "What I was talking about was if he had those conversations, they would not be criminal".

Raise your hand if you understand either what he's trying to say or whether he knows what he's saying. I guess my question is there a method to the madness or just madness to the method?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUS REPORTER, BLOOMBERG NEWS: Yes, there are couple of different theories. There are some people are saying that, he's trying to sort of drip out some of this incriminating information so that when all finally comes out in Mueller's report, it's less of a bombshell, that we've all heard it before.

I don't know how much that is actually the strategy that's being implemented here and they just be that Giuliani sort of speaks first and then clarifies later and maybe its hearing from the President's other lawyers who are telling him maybe it's not the best idea to say the President has a secret deal going on with the Russians all the way throughout the 2016 campaign.

But it is kind of a head-scratching to wonder why he is putting out information that makes the President look like he was in cahoots with the Russian during the campaign while the Russians are involved in hacking Hillary Clinton's e-mails and interfering in the campaign.

KING: It is important to note as we try to dissect what are contradictory, confusing all over the place statements from Rudy Giuliani that he has, this cannot be lose. He is the person who came forward say, the President lied to you about his knowledge and his involvement in the Hush payment with Stormy Daniels. That was one of the things (INAUDIBLE).

Now, he's essentially saying, the President lied to you, meaning you, the American people, about did he have any business deals with Russia and negotiations with Russia during the 2016 campaign when he clearly did at some point. Whether to run to Election Day, Michael Cohen says, it went at least through June. So, is he just trying to hide that, that what he's essentially saying with his appearances? Oh by the way, the President lied to the American people throughout the 2016 campaign but it's no big deal.

OLORUNNIPA: Right, he said that, "I'm not an effaces in this most recent.

KHALID: Oh yes.

OLORUNNIPA: And that's the most recent interview he said, "I'm a criminal defense lawyer. I'm only trying to protect the President from any criminal liability. I'm not talking about what he might have done that's not ethical".

RACHAEL BADE, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: It could be, I mean, clearly he himself is confused. Maybe he's receiving contradictory information from different people he's talking to and the legal team or the President, et cetera.

But yes, this is causing a problem, I would think, for his lawyers, the President's lawyers and it's confusing a lot of people. I mean, he corrected his correction in an interview he just did yesterday with the New Yorker --

KHALID: But even -- OK.

BADE: Right, the New Yorker called him and said, what about this BuzzFeed report that said the President told Michael Cohen to lie to Congress? And he said, no, that's not true I went through the tapes. The tapes?

KING: Yes.

BADE: The reporter said, what about the tapes? He said, I don't mean the tapes, there were no tapes. Well there were tapes but something else. It's just confusing.

MARTIN: This is more about Trump and this is about Rudy. The only reason of Rudy is on the air is because his client is Donald Trump. Any other president of either party would bow to the preference of their attorneys during this for the sensitive moment and not say anything at all and their lawyers wouldn't say anything at all, I'm here.

But this President is singularly focused on people defending him on television. He's constantly complaining about, why is nobody defending me on TV because that's his feedback, that's his world is watching, you know cable TV. Here we are.

And so he wants to have folks out there, when you push somebody out there on that tight rope and it's somebody like Rudy who's going to sort of chose and hit at times, he's going to create challenges for his client. But he's not taken off the air, this is the thing. He's still on the air and it's just wild.

KING: And he was a detail-oriented federal prosecutor, successful federal prosecutor.

MARTIN: Right.

KING: Then he was American's mayor after 9/11. It was a tough law and order mayor in New York City even before 9/11. Now he says this to the New Yorker, "Saying things for Trump not always being truthful about it. Do you ever worry that this would be your legacy? Does that worry you in anyway?

Absolutely, I am afraid it will be on my gravestone. Rudy Giuliani, he lied for Trump. Somehow I don't think that will be it but if it is, so what do I care. I'll be dead. I figure I can explain it to St. Peter".

MARTIN: Let's go on the other right there.

KHALID: I mean, I think it's just -- to your point, I mean, I think that part of this confusion does ultimately stem from the President and the President's desire to have a defense.

[12:50:07] And there this feedback cycle, feedback loop where his supporters feel that this is a witch hunt. He feels it's a witch hunt. He put someone out on TV to defend himself.

And in that process, I just think there is utter confusion. Whether it is malicious, whether it's intentional, I don't know nor would I want to adventure into figuring that out.

MARTIN: If you're not fighting back on TV, you're losing I think in the eyes of this President. He can't stand the idea of not having somebody defend him on TV even if ultimately it's detrimental to his larger cost.

KING: I just remember of that's largely political conversations. The legal consequences whereas to Mr. Mueller and the Democrats will investigating Congress. We'll see where this goes.

Before we go to break, sad news today, out of Afghanistan the U.S. service remember killed there in combat. The Pentagon not providing any additional details, but the combat death, the second such fatality in Afghanistan this calendar year.

The Army Sergeant Cameron Meddock died last week after being shot, during a January 13th combat operation. A good reminder, sad reminder. United States we should never forget this has approximately 14,000 troops still serving in Afghanistan.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:47] KING: A member of the Congressional leadership taking a tax on President Trump to definitely a new level. This Senate event honoring Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Take a listen here to the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D), NEW YORK: We have a hater in the White House. The birther in chief, but the grand wizard of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. One of the things that we've learned is that while Jim Crow may be dead, he's still got some nieces and nephews that are alive and well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Jeffries not the only one going directly at the President on the race question and another MLK event yesterday, Senator Bernie Sanders repeated he's claim that Trump is "racist".

But the White House has not responded to our request or comment, to Republican Party Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel did react twitting, Senator Sanders' remark where in her view, "disgusting and wrong".

It's an interesting page turning if you will and that for the first year and a half -- two years that a lot of Democrats said, "I can't see into his heart. What he's saying is race baited, racially insensitive, racially wrong".

Hakeem Jeffries is not nobody. He is many people believed he is being lined up to be Nancy Pelosi's successor. In his Congressional District that's safe but if he wants to be a national Democrat, Democrats have no pretense anymore, right? No nuance?

BADE: I mean that's right. Democrats are definitely saying there's more and more. I think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez office said something similar on "60 Minutes" right when the Democrats took the House.

Look, and it's not only words. If you look at actions, too, this was the first time last week we saw Democrats sort of rally to vote on a resolution that would basically disapprove of what Steve King said, these racists comments he had made.

Steve King has been talking like this for years and any one member in the House can actually force a vote on this issue and they chose not to. But they actually, last week came together work with Republicans and voted on something. So it's not just comments like these, it's actually actions rebuking other colleagues as well.

KING: And what was driving it because let's listen to the very same Hakeem Jeffries by non means complementing the President here but stopping short of a line. This is September 2017.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFRIES: He's a racial arsonist. He uses race to advance his own ends. That's troubling. I'm not going to stand here and call him a racist or not. But I will speak to the facts which have been part of his journey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Why they have decided, OK, forget it. I'm not going to try to hedge anymore, he's a racist.

OLORUNNIPA: I think the President's actions and statements over the year, especially as he was campaigning for the midterms. He really doubted the rhetoric. The anti-immigrant rhetoric. I think a lot of Democrat saw that, I saw how voters responded in large ways overturning. President's pushing back against the President's rhetoric by and liking a large number of Democrats to the House.

I think they realize that the base of their party is looking for people to take the fight to the President not full back and really take on the President when he does things that could be considered racist.

KHALID: And we begin to already see that I was seeing some of the 2020 primary conversations as well that the base of the party, whether it's sort of a diverse coalition of people of color. But out are even white liberals.

We see them also trends that they want to hear more about race and racism and issues of criminal justice reform and I think that this is another aspect of that. That this is where the base of the party is and we're moving into a cycle, a 2020 primary. It is somewhat politically strategic.

KING: If you go back 20 years, this is not a safe place for Democrats to be having this conversation of the country.

KHALID: Oh no. No, no.

KING: They believe it is now.

MARTIN: Yes. Because the country has changed demographically and because I think, social media has created more over than Senate structure for politicians to speak more bluntly, whether it's about race or anything else. It's action or reaction. It's President Trump's action and it's the reactions and the affirmation, the Democratic politicians get from their voter especially online.

Real fast. What's striking though about this, I was in South Carolina when Bernie said that -- I was still watching the clip on Hakeem Jeffries, the crowd was go crazy when they say it. I mean, I think it made me more for the online versus a real life thing, the better lines in person are much more about substance and policy than just about walking Trump like that. It's fascinating.

KING: It's part of the campaign. We're now hitting it, so thanks for joining us INSIDE POLITICS. See you after this time tomorrow. Brianna Keilar starts right now.