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Subpoena for Full Mueller Report; Biden on Defense Amid First Potential Campaign Crisis; Critical 2020 Fundraising Deadline Passes. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 01, 2019 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:16] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thank you for sharing your day with us.

New confrontations between Democrats and the Trump White House. The latest fireworks, a whistleblower says in at least 25 cases the Trump administration overruled career officials who had rejected applications for security clearances.

Plus, the White House says the president is not bluffing and is prepared to close parts of the U.S. border with Mexico. Even some of his allies worry his immigration obsession will hurt the economy and maybe hurt the president's re-election chances.

And a Me Too challenge for Joe Biden. He says he has offered countless expressions of affections over the years, but never did he believe them to be inappropriate. A former Nevada politician who says Biden kissed her head disagrees and says Democrats have better 2020 choices.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUCY FLORES (D), FORMER CANDIDATE FOR NEVADA LT. GOVERNOR: There are so many more incredible candidates that are just as likely and -- and I believe are competent and amazing and can beat Donald Trump.

My point was never about his intentions, and they shouldn't be about his intentions. It should be about the women on the receiving end of that behavior. And this isn't the first time and it wasn't the only incident where he was acting inappropriately with women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Back to the vice president's big challenge in a few moments.

But we begin the hour with two new big confrontations pitting House Democrats against the Trump administration. Both involve subpoena battles, and both involve issues that get under the president's skin. Today the House Oversight Committee chairman disclosed that a whistleblower told Congress at least 25 administration officials were granted security clearances after civil servants rejected their applications. Two of those rejected, but then granted clearances by political appointees, are current senior White House officials. A memo from Oversight Chairman Elijah Cummings said a woman who worked

for 18 years at the White House, in both Democratic and Republican administrations, detailed to lawmakers how the White House, this White House, overruled the normal process and granted clearances to applicants who had been rejected because of, quote, a wide range of serious disqualifying issues involving foreign influence, conflicts of interest, concerning personal misconduct, financial problems, drug use and criminal conduct.

The second fight involves the Mueller report and witnesses Democrats want for their own investigation of areas that also drew the special counsel's attention. The House Judiciary Committee will meet Wednesday to authorize a subpoena for the full report, un-redacted, setting up a confrontation with the White House and the Justice Department. Democrats who control the committee also plan to authorize subpoenas for five former senior White House staffers, you see them there. Another move likely to escalate a political and legal battle over documents and witnesses. President Trump, today, making clear his displeasure, tweeting, quote, no matter what information is given to the crazed Democrats from the no-collusion Mueller report, it will never be good enough.

Behind closed doors the president tweets, the Dems are laughing.

With me this day to share their reporting and their insights, Julie Pace with "The Associated Press," CNN's Manu Raju, Paul Kane with "The Washington Post," and Lisa Lerer with "The New York Times."

Let's start with the security clearance issue. The White House has said the president has every right to do this. The president has said he didn't get involved in the big ones, like his son-in-law. What do the Democrats think they have here?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's been the question, whether the president did get involved and override the concerns that people in the -- career officials had raised about the security clearance process. "The Times" report that Jared Kushner, for one, there were concerns about his security clearance, whether he should have gotten one. The president said he should. Ivanka Trump, CNN reported was also a concern of -- raised internally, but the president green-lighted that as well.

Now, what Elijah Cummings says he has is this whistleblower who has come forward. Her name is Trisha Newbold. She's a White House employee for 18 years. She was an adjudications manager in the personal security office. She talked to the committee, detailed what she said actually were dozens of times where there were concerns that were raised that were overruled by officials in the White House. And she says and since 2018 there have been 25 instances, including those two senior White House officials.

Now, the question is -- that Cummings has had is that this shows the White House has complete disregard for the protocols, for disregarding concerns over national security. One of the things that she points out, according to this memo, the whistleblower says that there was an unusually high number of interim security clearances that were given to individuals who were later deemed that they should not have had access to classified information. So this is just going to be one of a number of investigations that this committee and other committees in the House plan to do. He plans to subpoena one individual to come forward to ask for more information. The White House has yet to respond to this, though.

[12:05:01] KING: And what's the -- what's the bigger goal here for the Democrats? Is this -- they're saying that the administration just can't get good people so they're getting people who don't deserve to be in government, or do they believe there's something nefarious at play here?

PAUL KANE, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": This is where they're moving beyond sort of the criminal side, where you had the Mueller investigation for two years. Now they're moving into the incompetent side. This is where the Democrats want to go with their investigations to just sort of explore areas where they are doing things differently. They're not observing protocol. And, in some cases, they're giving people clearances who shouldn't have them.

KING: And here's what Jim Jordan, the ranking Republican on the committee. Now, Democrats were often critical when the Republicans were in charge of what they chose to focus on with their oversight. Jim Jordan now flipping the coin, if you will. It is an excuse to go fishing through the personal files of dedicated public servants. The memo mischaracterizes the information shared by Ms. Newbold. For instance, the 25 examples of overruled recommendations by Ms. Newbold, heralded by the Democrats include non-political officials such as a GSA custodian.

So the question is here, is it oversight or overreach?

JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": Well, I mean, to Paul's points, one of the things Democrats are going to be doing now that they've got the majority back in the House is they're going to be trying to poke wherever they can, right? So clearances is just going to be one set of investigations that they're going to be doing. Pretty much every aspect of this administration, Trump's personal finances, his businesses, they consider to be fair game.

I think the challenge for Democrats is trying to make any one of these investigations stick, particularly in light of the -- of the end of the Mueller investigation, which didn't result in any collusion. There's going to be, I think -- I think some sensitivity within some corners of the Democratic Party to try to choose more carefully, to not do such a broad brush and to pick the ones where they actually can make an impact. Security clearances is one where they feel like they can.

And to Jim Jordan's point, there is a certain irony any time Republicans are talking about, you know, kind of brushing aside questions about who saw classified information given how intense their questioning was about Hillary Clinton and classified information and that was part of her e-mails was a bit of hypocrisy there.

KING: A bit. A bit, to be fair. And let's quote a little bit from Trisha Newbold, who, again, worked

18 years, Democrat and Republican administrations. She says, I came forward today because I just -- I do not see a way forward positively in our office without coming to an external entity, and that's because I've raised my concerns through the EOP -- that's executive office of the president -- to career staffers as well as political staffers. And I want it know, this is systematic. It's an office issue, and we're not a political office, but these decisions were being continuously overrode.

Her case is, there's a system, there's a process, there's a way to do this. And when the civil servants say, no, they're not always right, but in her case more than 25 of them when the civil servants say, no, and then someone else saying yes to her represents a problem.

LISA LERER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Right. And this is part of the case that Democrats are trying to build, that this is an administration that does not accept the norms of government, that does not accept rules, that they didn't drain the swamp. They, I don't know, expanded the swamp, and that's something that we'll definitely hear more and more as we move more and more into this 2020 cycle. And as part of case they want to -- they want to build really against the president. But the question will be how well it sticks if you don't have, you know, that bombshell moment.

KING: And the question is who? The question is who? You know, if you're in any level of government, if you have financial issues, people worry about blackmail or misappropriations of funds. If you have foreign conflicts, they're worried about influence of other countries. We know that the Democrats for some time have raised questions. Jared Kushner was the chief one. Why did he -- why did he get one when the -- most officials recommended against it?

Listen to the president talking to "The New York Times" a little bit ago where he says, I -- you know, it happened, but I had nothing to do with it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGGIE HABERMAN, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Did you tell General Kelly or anyone else in the White House to overrule security officials? The career veterans?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. I don't think I have the authority to do that. I'm not sure I do.

HABERMAN: You do have the authority to do it.

TRUMP: But I -- I -- I wouldn't -- I wouldn't do it.

HABERMAN: You never (INAUDIBLE) --

TRUMP: Jared's a good -- I was -- I was never involved with his security. I know that he, you know, just from reading, I know that there was issues back and forth about security for -- for numerous people actually, but I don't want to get involved in that stuff. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So I guess my question is, is this the Democrats' casting a broad net because they think there are a lot of issues to be raised here, or is it the issue of the Democrats casting a broad net because they want to get to that one big fish?

RAJU: Yes, that's one part of it, the big fish being Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump, the big fish also being the president's truthfulness. That's one thing that they are -- reasons why they are particularly interested in this. The president said he was not involved. Ivanka Trump said that the president was not involved in her security clearance situation.

Now, we do know from our colleague Alex Marquardt's reporting that of these 25 individuals who were listed, Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump are on that list according to a source who tells our colleague that. So this is -- this is going to be a question for them, how did -- how did they ultimately respond?

But the ultimate question for the -- for the Democrats who what to pursue is whether the president was telling the truth to the American public and they say he clearly was not in this (INAUDIBLE).

[12:10:03] KING: We'll see if they can get the White House counsel and others to cooperate with their requests for documents and witnesses.

The other issue is this Wednesday subpoena fight in the Judiciary Committee. Some -- some would say, and the Republicans are certainly saying, why don't you wait, see what the attorney general sends us. He says he will send you something. He says he's going to have to redact some of it. We know it's a counter intelligence investigation that has sources and methods about, how did they find out about the Russian meddling in the elections. So some of it would be redacted. Congress says no -- the Democrats in Congress say, no, we want it all.

Why go forward with the subpoena before the attorney general at least says, here, here's what I'm willing to give you?

KANE: There's two points. One is, this is going to be a very long, legal, drawn-out battle that could go all the way to the Supreme Court, and it's getting it started now. And the other is, Democrats are really angry at Attorney General Barr over his characterization of the obstruction piece of the Mueller report, which they -- it has just driven them a bit angry, and they've -- their sense of trust in him right now has fallen because they think -- they think he took a step farther than he was sort of in his original mandate.

RAJU: And two pieces of the redactions --

LERER: And I also think that --

RAJU: Actually has raised -- have prompted concerns among Democrats. One, the grand jury information. They believe they're entitled to that. Also the part that Barr says information that could impugn the integrity of peripheral third parties. Now, the question is who that is. Democrats believe there could be significant redactions because of those two categories, and they say things like the Watergate investigation, the Starr investigation, that gives them precedent to get at least the grand jury information.

PACE: Some of this also is, Democrats just want to lay down a marker. They don't want to look like they are just abiding by Barr's timeframe on this. They want to say, hey, we have authority here. We're the legislative branch. We're going to give you a deadline on this. And if you don't make it, like, that's a problem. They don't want to just sit back quietly right now.

LERER: And that's certainly what their base wants from them, right? The numbers on impeachment among Democrats have shifted. Democrats are sort of less -- there's less of that intense drive to impeach President Trump, but that sense of investigation, that need to push on this is still very strongly there within the party.

And I also think Democrats want to send a message that the Barr memo is not the report. Because this is a bit confusing to people, I think, if you're not someone who's living and breathing this stuff. And this is a way of reinforcing that, that what you -- what you heard, what you read, maybe what you read is not actually the report, which is an important distinction for them to make as they think about the re- election.

KING: Good point. We'll stay on top of that one.

Up next for us, though, Joe Biden faces the first big challenge of his campaign, even before he officially enters the race.

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[12:16:39] KING: Joe Biden already playing defense, even before launching his potential run for the White House. The former vice president facing the first crisis of that still not official campaign. A former Democratic lawmaker in Nevada alleging Biden made her feel, quote, uneasy. It was back in 2014 at a campaign rally where she says he smelled her hair and kissed the back of her head.

Biden releasing a personal statement defending himself yesterday, saying, in part, that over the years, quote, I have offered countless handshakes, hugs, expresses of affection, support and comfort and not once, never, did I believe I acted inappropriately. If it is suggested I did so, I will listen respectfully, but it was never my intention. We have arrived, the vice president says, at an important time when women feel they can and should relate their experiences and men should pay attention, and I will, he said.

If Biden is indeed paying attention, he might note a few headlines from the weekend as this story was covered, none of which would bode particularly well for him, especially in this Me Too era. In "Politico," Biden blindsided by dose of 2020 reality. Biden's hometown paper, "The Wilmington News Journal," Joe Biden defends his behavior with women after accusations of unwanted touching. "The Associated Press," quote, Biden faces new scrutiny from Dems over behavior with women. And "The New York Times," Joe Biden scrambles to stem crisis after Lucy Flores' allegations.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins our conversation.

First, it was a campaign spokesman. Then the vice president himself decide he needed to put a statement out in his name. Do they think they have turned the volume down here or do they think they need to do more?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think the fact that they came out so quickly and you had that statement from the former vice president within about a day and a half, right before Lucy Flores went on "State of the Union," shows just how seriously they are taking this. You noted all of those headlines. And these are things that Biden is going to have to grapple with going forward. There's questions about how much Democratic voters are actually going to be influenced and think about this. Will his behavior change going forward? Is there maybe more that he does need to do to try to stem some of these concerns?

But one thing with Joe Biden, as we've all spent a lot of time out on the campaign trail with him, this is part of who he is. I mean he's a very -- he has described himself as a tactile politicians. And he's acknowledged that perhaps he has made people -- he doesn't think he's acting inappropriately, but has acknowledged that people may have certain feelings about this, it may be surprising to him, but it will be interesting to see if he's going to change any of the way that he interacts with folks going forward.

KING: And the -- this statement was interesting in the sense he says, never does he believe he's acted inappropriately. But he also does note the time -- the times we live in now and says he will listen. He says everyone should listen, all men should listen, and he will listen.

So let's listen to Lucy Flores.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUCY FLORES (D), FORMER CANDIDATE FOR NEVADA LT. GOVERNOR: Very unexpectedly and out of nowhere I feel Joe Biden put his hands on my shoulders, get up very close to me from behind, lean in, smell my hair and then plant a slow kiss on the top of my head.

You don't expect that kind of intimacy from someone so powerful and someone who you just have no relationship whatsoever to -- to touch you and to feel you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, those close to the vice president say that something like that is what he would do when he thought somebody was nervous or somebody was about to give a speech in a big moment and he would do that kind of as a, hey, hang in there, I've got your back, boom. That's how he sees it. Does he understand now that that's not his call?

[12:20:02] PACE: Well, and I think that's what interesting about what Flores did. I mean she flipped the frame on this basically.

KING: Right.

PACE: To Arlette's point, I mean Biden's actions are -- are so well known. They've played out on camera for -- for decades. So it's not surprising that he -- that he behaves in this way, that he's quite affectionate.

What she did is she focused on how someone who's on the receiving end might feel. And I think that's where, you know, Biden, clearly in this statement, is perhaps grappling with this. It's unclear if he's ever really thought about that. I think that's going to be where a lot of the focus is going to -- is going to be on now, not necessarily his actions but how the -- how the recipients of those actions have interpreted them.

KING: How the recipients --

LERER: But --

KING: Please.

LERER: But he really should have been very prepared for this. I mean this was not -- a lot of times we talk about these -- this is not a Me Too situation, but the past two years we've talked about these Me Too situation as open secrets. This was not any kind of secret, open, closed. It was very well -- it was called Bidening (ph) I believe sometimes on Capitol Hill. People referred to it at Bidening during the swearing-in ceremonies. So you think that this thinking would have happened already, this reflecting would have happened already. And I think it is a really big question about whether that has happened, how prepared they were for this. And I think that does tell us something about how prepared, if he does decide to enter the race, how prepared they will be for a lot of issues that could come up with the changing times. This is a man who has been in government for more than four decades. There's a lot of votes, a lot of things that he did in the '70s and the '80s that don't wear so well in today's Democratic Party.

KING: And to that point, you could see if this were five or ten years ago and it came up, other candidates in a race, even rivals of Joe Biden, even rivals who could see him at 30 percent in the polls and say, I would like that -- I would like that space, I would like those numbers, saying, I'm not going to comment on that or I'm going to leave it to the vice president. The other candidates, though, are talking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have no reason not to believe her.

We know from campaigns and from politics that people raise issues, and they have to address them.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe Lucy Flores, and Joe Biden needs to give an answer. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should he not run as a result?

WARREN: Well, that's for Joe Biden to decide.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not sure that one incident alone disqualifies anybody. But her point is absolutely right.

JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Women have to be heard, and we should really -- we should start by believing them.

I don't know all the details, but I think that's why we have an election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You listen to that and a piece Julie wrote over the weekend about this, she quotes Nancy Bobo, an Iowa activist, saying, I can just see what's coming at him, and it's going to come at him from the Democrats, seeing how highly a competitive race it was.

KANE: Absolutely. You're right. Five years ago this might have -- might have just been laughed off as Bidening. He -- he is just of this generation. People like Bill Clinton, Ed Rendell, governor of Pennsylvania, they just sort of grew up thinking that's how you demonstrate your rapport with people. And, like, this was supposedly one of Joe Biden's strengths is that he's able to go into a room and work a room and everybody loves Uncle Joe. But in this image, the image-driven culture, one snap of a picture from a phone can just really distort or reveal what's really happening.

PACE: And you brought out at broader point here which is that the big question around Joe Biden right now isn't just, you know, how he's handles these moments, isn't just, you know, his handling of the Anita Hill hearing or his vote on the '94 crime bill. It's, is he just simply of a different era? An era that the bulk of the Democratic primary electorate believes has passed right now. And how he makes that case to voters I think is going to be really central to his success here.

LERER: But I do think these issues around women, whether it's this or whether it's his, you know, handling of the Anita Hill hearings or his, you know, record on abortion may be resonate because you have a Democratic Party -- a Democratic primary electorate that is, what, 60 percent female, plus or minus.

KING: At least.

LERER: At least.

KING: You go -- that's the -- that's the last one. It's -- the numbers (INAUDIBLE) in some of those states, it will be 60 plus.

LERER: Right. So how women interpret this record in the modern -- in the modern lens, it matters a lot for him.

KING: Well, we will see if he decides a statement's enough or whether he needs to come out and speak more about this.

Up next for us, some eye-catching 2020 fundraising numbers beginning to trickle in, but Abigail Klobuchar already helping mom raise some more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABIGAIL KLOBUCHAR, DAUGHTER OF AMY KLOBUCHAR: Did you know that when you donate $1 to my mom's campaign, you get a bumper sticker. And for those of you, like me, who don't have a car, I made a list of things you can do with it.

ON SCREEN TEXT: 1. Put it on your computer.

13. Wax your eyebrows.

8. Use it as a lint roller.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[12:29:14] KING: Pete Buttigieg, today, making the case he's passed the first big 2020 test. First quarter fundraising ended yesterday. And while the official reports aren't due for another two weeks, Buttigieg was the first of the Democrats to share his total. The South Bend, Indiana, mayor says he took in at least $7 million. That's impressive. But others are certain to beat it. We know that because in their first 24 hours in the race, Beto O'Rourke passed $6 million, Bernie Sanders nearly that amount, just shy of $6 million, Senator Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, John Hickenlooper all tell you a quick million. We'll see if they can keep up with Pete Buttigieg as it goes forward.

How important is this? There has been -- you called it I think the Buttigieg boomlet (ph) in your newsletter. No, he's getting a lot of attention. He's an interesting candidate. He moved up from 1 percent to 4 percent in the polls. So don't start popping the fireworks just yet. But that -- you're headed -- you're headed in the right direction. In a crowded Democratic field, that's what you want to do.

[12:30:02] PACE: It's important because every cycle you do have these boomlet, where there's some candidate, sometimes multiple candidates who pop up, get a bunch of attention.