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Sanders Starts Southern Campaign Swing Today; Sanders Avoids Answering Question About Ocasio-Cortez; U.S. Expected to Lift Steel and Aluminum Tariffs on Canada and Mexico; Trump Makes Another Immigration Reform Pitch. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired May 17, 2019 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] LISA LERER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think what he should be nervous about is Elizabeth Warren's gain. She has been sort of -- it's not a surge, right, a surge requires a lot -- gaining a lot of points but she has been creeping up in the polls. And she is his biggest rival for, you know, his piece of the Democratic base, that sort of left-wing part of the party.

So, I think it's -- obviously, nobody ever wants to see their numbers falling even if we are as you point out nine months out. But I think is the rise in her numbers that's concerning some people in, you know, Sanders' land.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: And just to go back a little bit in history. This was the time in the race in the last cycle where Sanders starts to take off if you look at these numbers here. In May, he was at 13 percent in 2015 then by June, he was up to 35 percent. Now that was essentially a two-person race. I know there were couple other candidates in the race back then. But if you look at this now, if you look at, you know, where this plays out, this is -- if you go back in time as another one here if you look, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, minus six at this point now. Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Biden didn't end up running, Sanders was starting to move up back in that campaign.

So the trend line is bad.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And look, this is such a different race than compared to 2016. Back then, he was the insurgent, upstart candidate, the contrast was so significant with Hillary Clinton. He was, you know, rallying on most a lot of the issues that she was not rallying against or she had supported in the past. Here, so many of the candidates had similar positions Bernie Sanders does now.

Now, almost all of them support some version of Medicare for All, they do -- they rally on similar things when it comes to rallying against the richest people in this country, billionaires and the like. They have co-opted his message and he is no longer that upstart, insurgent candidate and he is the frontrunner. And that is a challenge for him, and I think he's having a hard time figuring out what it's like to be in that position.

MICHAEL BENDER, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: It's interesting that there is no really upstart, insurgent candidate. No one has taken that mallet at least yet in the Democratic primary. I think for Bernie the thing that has to be really concerning is the poll out last week showing him so far behind in New Hampshire. Just basically his backyard and one of the only primaries that he won by a large margin back in 2016.

But, on the other hand, when you look at the numbers in totality, Biden and Bernie are still -- I mean, that is still half of the electorate supports one of those two guys. And, you know, more than the -- and Bernie has enough money and enough path to gaining more dollars. He can be around for a long time.

The thing that I think is more concerning than the poll numbers right now for Sanders is how the attention from Trump world is focused on Biden. They don't view Bernie as much of a threat at all. They think they can scoop up independents at a much higher rate than if Biden is in the race. And if you want to beat Trump, I mean, that's what's going to stick with a lot of --

KING: And to your point about Senator Warren, she has -- you know, a month ago we were saying is she going to start to move, is she stuck. She started to inch up, it's not a surge but she started to inch up some and she says she would think it's because of her policy proposals.

We've seen Senator Sanders just in the last 10 days or so, a big credit card even with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez then a Green New Deal event with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. You mentioned anti-establishment insurgency, she was a volunteer for Sanders in 2016, she's now in Congress. She does represent that anti-establishment insurgency in the party if you will but she has said she's not sure who she's going to endorse.

Our Ryan Nobles asked Senator Sanders about that, he wasn't thrilled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You're working with Representative Ocasio-Cortez in this. I've seen you've been with her a couple of times over the past or so.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

NOBLES: Do you think you'll ask her for your -- her endorsement?

SANDERS: OK, thank you.

NOBLES: No?

SANDERS: OK. We're here right now. Let's, you know -- see this is -- OK, we're talking about saving the planet and you're trying to become political right here so --

NOBLES: No, I'm just asking questions.

SANDERS: That's fine. Right now we're here to talk about the environment, OK?

NOBLES: OK.

SANDERS: Thank you very much.

NOBLES: Thank you, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So, basically Bernie Sanders has become the establishment, anti-establishment candidate and that puts him in kind of a weird spot.

KING: It's a way to put it.

LERER: It's just the likeability matter for Bernie Sanders. I think that's -- I mean, that was not -- if you imagine a different candidate doing that kind of brush off of a reporter, it might get a lot more attention. I think with Bernie Sanders, people have grown accustomed in with his style, it's (INAUDIBLE), it's part of his brand but it's a different race as you point out. And I do think it's worth sort of raising that question. Does age matter? Does likeability matter?

Right now, wherein this dynamic where it's Bernie Sanders against Joe Biden that sort of neutralizes the age dynamic. That's, honestly, unlikely to hold for nine months.

RAJU: And that Bernie Sanders is not what a lot of the voters see, but it's what reporters see. This is how he deals with reporters particularly on Capitol Hill. He brushes them off, he's very gruff. That is his style. But as Lisa points out, what do voters think of him?

TALEV: But Bender is right, Trump is using him pretty effectively to compare him with Biden and make it seem like Biden is the really old guy who doesn't have any energy. And that -- we're going to see that last as long as the president thinks it's working for him.

KING: This is humor, folks at home. It's humor especially if you support Senator Sanders. It's humor but the art of segue from a grumpy candidate to the passing of an internet icon.

[12:35:03] OK, fine.

Grump Cat died today at age seven. The perpetual grimace made everyone smile from preschoolers to presidents. Here is Barack Obama a few years back comparing Grumpy Cat to you know who.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're gloomy. They're like Grumpy Cat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [12:40:05] KING: Some important trade and economic news just into CNN. The United States set to remove a big source of tension between the United States, Canada, and Mexico and a big hurdle to passage of the USMCA trade deal. A person familiar with discussions between the White House, Canada, and Mexico says the Trump administration now will lift steel and aluminum tariffs on its two neighbors.

CNN's Abby Phillip, live at the White House with the details of this one. Abby, it's a big deal.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is. It's very much a big priority for this president getting this USMCA ratified. But one of the big sticking points for Canada and Mexico but particularly for Canada has been the steel and aluminum tariffs that had begun a sort of retaliatory cycle here between neighboring countries that had long been trading partners. And so this agreement is just the result of ongoing conversations between President Trump and the leaders of Canada and Mexico.

Just this week alone, President Trump and Trudeau -- President Trudeau of Canada spoke for over -- for three conversations including one today that the Canadians have confirmed but the White House has not yet confirmed. So, our understanding is that with this agreement which is close to completion and could be announced at some point today, the president has agreed to lift steel and aluminum tariffs. They were 25 percent tariffs on steel, 10 percent tariffs on aluminum, lift those tariffs and Canada will do the same. And the result is that that hurdle ratifying USMCA in Canada and Mexico will be more or less lifted.

However, John, as you know, this has to be ratified here in the United States and there are some bipartisan concerns on Capitol Hill about the deal that will need to be worked out. That issue is a little bit separate from this dispute between Canada and Mexico. But for the United States, I think it's an important step forward as the president tries to get this deal ratified, especially as he's also in the midst of a trade war with China as well. This is just one more headache that he gets lifted as he's trying to move forward here, John.

KING: Abby Phillip, live with the breaking news at the White House. Appreciate it, Abby. Let's come into the room.

This is complicated. Trade politics are fascinating. Number one, you turn down the temperature in the neighborhood, right? Your biggest trading partners, your closest neighbors, Canada and Mexico. And Republicans on Capitol Hill have complained about that saying, fight with China, we have some questions about that, but at least we get it. Why are we having so many arguments with our friends and neighbors?

But the other -- on the other hand though, the president heading into his re-election campaign has told his base those tariffs have helped bring back steel jobs, bring back aluminum jobs in the United States.

TALEV: Yes. And, you know -- so, what you're seeing now is the president trying to balance all these interests. You can't fight everyone on all fronts all the time. And if China is the battle that he's going to pick and we have reason to believe he is because, among the other reasons, we've heard Brad Parscale now today say that it helps with the Latino vote. Go figure.

That's a fascinating subject for a different conversation. But if China is where you're going to do it, then you got to clear the decks on this other stuff. So, the president gets some stuff out of this deal as we understand it right now. Some assurances that he can come back at them with new tariffs if they allow (INAUDIBLE) to take place and some other stuff to encourage regional production of steel and aluminum.

And we've seen him in tandem with this accomplishment today give the -- a six months delay to a decision on tariffs on autos that would allow for negotiations to continue. I think when you look at those in concert with his approach to China you see an overall approach that takes 2020 into account.

KING: And he's taking trade -- still focusing on China and trying to take the air out of the balloon if you will in some of the other trade fights. Is that fair?

BENDER: Yes, absolutely. There's a lot of anticipation this morning in the White House for this -- to finalize this deal with Canada. And, you know, for a lot of the reasons that Margaret was just talking about, these setbacks last week if we could -- I think that's a fair way to put it with China. It's just going to put more and more pressure on the farmers who are in key states and this, they feel like, will give them a little bit of leeway. These aluminum and steel tariffs, they've been clear winners and losers congregated right in the battleground states in the Midwest. If they can finalize this, if they can get a little bit more targeted relief for the farmers in the next couple weeks, it will give them a little bit of breathing room to get some -- maybe get a deal done with China in the next few months.

RAJU: And the big question too is how will -- will Congress be able to approve the U.S./Mexico trade agreement. That is still a major, major question. A very heavy lift through the Democratic House. They're working very hard.

The USTR trade Representative Robert Lighthizer has been working behind the scenes to try to get Nancy Pelosi on board but Democrats have their own politics to consider in pushing this forward. Republicans also are not completely on board, but perhaps this move could alleviate concerns from Republicans at least. Nevertheless, that's -- you know, that will -- the president wants to campaign on that, but getting that approved in this Congress and this environment still a major question.

KING: We'll watch as this one plays out. Politics are traitors. It's fascinating.

Up next for us, the president rolls out another immigration plan. Another big issue for 2020.

[12:45:00] But is it a plan to get past or is it just a plan to carry into the campaign? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Another immigration setback for the Trump White House in court today even as the president tries to sell a new White House plan for the border. A Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals panel of judges ruling the president's decision to rescind the Obama administration DACA policy violated federal law.

[12:50:02] You would probably recall that program protects young undocumented immigrants who were brought illegally across the border by family members or someone else. Democrats insist there must be a legislative solution to the DACA issue but it is not among the proposals in the president's new plan. He wants what he calls a merit-based system requiring would-be immigrants to learn English and pass a civics exam. Candidates will be evaluated base on their age, their skill set, and their office of employment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today we are presenting a clear contrast. Democrats are proposing open borders, lower wages, and frankly, lawless chaos. We are proposing an immigration plan that puts the jobs, wages, and safety of American workers first. Our proposal is pro-American, pro-immigrant, and pro-worker. It's just common sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now Democrats say they are not interested in talking unless and until the president puts the DACA issue back on the table. And, they were quick to take issue with details of the president's plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The word that they use, merit. It is really a condescending word. Are they saying family is without merit? Are they saying most of the people who have come to the United States in the history of our country are without merit because they don't have an engineering degree?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Just clear from there, there's no legislation passing. The only way the president would have to bring them to the White House and talk about a whole lot of things we know he's not going to talk about. But not just the Democrats who don't like it, other Republicans don't like the president's plan either.

RAJU: Yes. I mean, in the last Congress that were controlled by both -- both chambers controlled by Republicans, there were plans that were supported by this administration that they pushed very hard. They went through weeks of painstaking negotiations just within the House Republican conference and they could not get that approved. Now, bring in Democrats controlling the House and, obviously, the two sides are in complete polar opposites when it comes to this particular issue. This is just a political document to make the case to voters and the contrast between the parties.

KING: And the conservative reaction is fascinating. Let's start with the Majority Leader Mitch McConnell who put out a statement. Again, the president's point man in the Senate, the only chamber the Republicans still control.

"We're a nation of immigrants, we must preserve that part of who we are. We're a nation of laws. There's a crisis at our southern border."

He goes through this whole point, at the very end, it says, I look forward to reviewing the president's proposal.

TALEV: Yes.

KING: That's the top Republican in the Senate. He doesn't say, thank you, Mr. President, he doesn't promise anything. Paul Kane, a friend of the program who covers the Senate. "When McConnell doesn't want to take a position, his statements are a series of sentences all grammatically correct, subject plus verb plus object. And those sentences are factually accurate. We are a nation of laws, and then no position is taken.

BENDER: Well, also -- I mean, to be fair, when Mitch McConnell gets fired up, it's usually subject, verb, predicate as well. But this is the problem, if you up the belief that this is a political document and there is not legs for this to pass in the Congress which I think is a very fair point to make, the problem here is a statement like this from Mitch McConnell and Democrats -- you know, if you're trying to put on Democrats, all Democrats have to do is read Mitch McConnell's statement and say Trump's plan can't even get the top Republican in Congress.

KING: Or look at the other -- the president we know, the president even when he's almost agreed to things with Democrats, then he gets hammered by his base and he backs off. The Center for Immigration Studies, a very conservative group essentially live tweeting and live responding to the president's plan yesterday taking issue with his temporary work visas, with other issues in the plan. They don't like the substance of this. That's one conservative group.

Ann Coulter, a constant thorn in the president's side of this, her tweets include this. "Great that Trump wants language proficiency for immigrants. How about language proficiency for presidents?"

Then she goes on to put wall, wol, it's a noun. A continuous vertical brick or stone structure that encloses or divides an area of land. I mean, aw.

TALEV: So the question that you have to ask is, what is the actual goal of this package? And it is -- the kind of conventional wisdom is that it's supposed to be a unity document that Republicans can rally around. Obviously, Republicans are not rallying around it. So what is the actual, actual goal?

And I think you could make the case that the actual, actual goal is for the president to be able to go out on the stump and say that he does not want to decrease the number of legal immigrants. They are looking at -- loosely according to the formulas to the extent, it's been discussed keeping the same number of green cards every year but changing the numbers.

So I think this is -- I think we can say that this is about how he positions himself on the stump and who he messages to, even among immigrant groups. This could be exciting to many immigrant groups who would benefit from this. It will not be exciting to immigrant groups that will not benefit from this. But at this point, if the goal really is a unity document for the Republicans, it doesn't seem to be achieving the goal.

LERER: And I agree with Margaret which is always a good position to have, that that is what the president is trying to do. To be able to go out and say, look, I support legal immigration. The problem is, it's not what he's going to do.

Like when he's on the stump, the idea that he would hue to this message speak about immigrants in respectful terms.

[12:55:00] I mean, you're laughing because it seems almost completely unlikely. So, you can put out this doc -- so you -- so what ends up happening here. You put out this document, nobody in Washington likes it. You take fire from both sides, from your party, from Democrats, and then you have a document that the president basically never references on the campaign trail. So you have to wonder what's achieved by this.

KING: A good side of history there. The president also continues watching the news today taking issue with his chief of staff on another big issue. Infrastructure.

Quick programming note here, don't miss CNN's special report tonight, "The Trump Family Business" dives into the president's business dealings around the world. Catch it tonight, Erin Burnett investigates right here on CNN, 9 p.m. Eastern.

Thanks for joining us in the INSIDE POLITICS today. Hope you get up early and join us on Sunday, 8 a.m. Eastern. Don't go anywhere, a lot of news. Brianna Keilar starts after a very quick break. Have a great day.

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