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Inside Politics

Michigan Dem Voters Weigh In On 2020 Race, Debates; CNN Debates Last Chance for Some Dems to Break Through; Buttigieg, O'Rourke Battle to Break Back Out; Trump Defends McConnell Over Election Security Bills. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 30, 2019 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:46] JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Welcome back.

It is debate day -- debate days, plural, in Detroit. When Michigan holds its Democratic primary in March, the vote here in the Detroit area is absolutely critical. Wayne County is the state's most populous, and 40 percent of its voters are African-American. Our lunch conversation with four undecided Democrats included discussion of their debate expectations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You got 20 Democrats in your city this week trying to make their case. Anybody have a firm candidate yet?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's too early.

JAY ANDERSON, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Too early.

KING: You're all planning to vote in the Democratic primary?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

KING: But you say you don't have a firm candidate yet. Who has impressed you? It doesn't have to be one, it can be two, three, four, and what are you looking for?

KAYLA KENNARD, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Right now I believe my top contender if I could pick one, would be Elizabeth Warren. I think she's an incredible woman who really speaks to the issues that I'm passionate about. Kamala Harris surprisingly is someone that I'm also looking at. I wasn't quite sure just based on her history as a prosecutor, but the more that I've listened to her as a candidate, I think that she's a bold woman. I think that she commands the debate stage so she's someone that I also am looking at.

And I am looking at Joe Biden as well. ERIN KEITH, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: A big issue for me is the student loan forgiveness, and what we're going to do to attack this debt crisis. I love that Elizabeth Warren has firm plans about how she wants to attack it. Elizabeth Warren literally has a plan for everything. She should have t-shirts that say that I've got a plan for that literally.

KING: I think she does.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

KEITH: Well, I want to get one.

I also love Castro and some of the things that he's had to say about immigration, especially in terms of decriminalizing, you know, some of the border crossing issues and things like that and treating it more as a civil issue.

MELODY ARMSTRONG, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I like Elizabeth Warren. She does have a plan. So I also like Biden. I feel comfortable with Biden that I don't think that he will send me back to a different state or a different country. I feel comfortable with him.

KEITH: It's sad we even have to think that.

ANDERSON: First of all, I've got to have somebody who's going to win, who can win. So it's about 22 to 25 candidates --

KING: A little confusing isn't it?

ANDERSON: Yes, about 10 or 20 of them -- not 20, but 10 of them I've never heard of. So -- and I'm not a big political guy, so I'm more home-based like in the streets. So I just -- I need that name.

KING: So help me understand when you mean you need someone who can win. Does that mean you're willing to compromise if you think this is the person who can beat Trump, who can take Michigan back?

ANDERSON: My thing is I have to have a Democrat. It has to be a Democrat. And I'm sorry to say but if it's Bozo the Clown and he's a Democrat, I'll take him over Trump because I already got one in the office right now.

KING: The three ladies here have all mentioned Elizabeth Warren. Can you sell Medicare for All, free college tuition, the Green New Deal, can you sell that in one national election? Or will Trump say -- he'll call it socialism, but let's take that label off it. It is a lot of government and it's a lot of power in Washington. Do you worry even though you agree with those things that that Democrat can't win?

KENNARD: That's an interesting question because I think right now the Democratic Party is in an odd space. We saw it in 2016 when people weren't satisfied they didn't get out to vote. And so again, I think that, you know, though these might be quote-unquote, socialist issues, I think we're really talking about basic human rights in a lot of these cases. I don't think that we should minimize these issues just because like, oh, this isn't the traditional Democratic stance.

KING: That's been the big debate that --

KENNARD: Right.

KING: -- have Democrats just been afraid to sell it.

KEITH: So I think the Democrats need to get on board and realize that if we want to win, some of that does require embracing things that are far-left that are about the people, that are about fighting. And I think in terms of whether a candidate can win, I've heard so many people say -- and I have reasons that I like Joe Biden as a candidate, but I heard some people say I'm voting for Biden not because they support his policies, not because of the great work he's done just because he's a white man and a white man can beat Trump.

[12:35:13] And I think that what the right wanted was to scare us into thinking that the only way we could have a country is to have a white country. And I'm unwilling to play into that. I think that Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris will have just as good of a shot as anyone.

KING: When you watch the debates Tuesday and Wednesday night, what are you thinking?

ARMSTRONG: I'm really looking for them to fix healthcare. I'm right now recovering from breast cancer, and believe me when the bills came in the door if I didn't have healthcare, I'd have been dead. It's just too expensive.

ANDERSON: I don't want those candidates getting up there attacking each other. I want them talking about the issues and attracting the Democratic people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I'd be interested, you all travel more than I do, and just what you pick up from the language here. What struck me was the generational divide. The two older voters used the word compromise more and were troubled with the idea that could you sell all this. Even though they liked Elizabeth Warren, could you sell all of this in one election? What else jumps out?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I just -- I think that that is such a universal concern for so many Democrats who do not necessarily agree with Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. This idea that -- these ideas could be really expensive. And that people will not take the time to understand, for example, how Elizabeth Warren wants to pay for them. Whereas, you know, you have the many hard-charging younger voters who say we want it all, let's go for it.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: But what the woman was saying about how she was comfortable with Joe Biden, that's something I've heard reflected, particularly among older African-American voters. They trust him, and they know his record. They know where he's been and they know where he's going and they feel like it's a steady choice that could take on Trump.

RESTON: Less risky, absolutely.

ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think also just a great case study in how voters are more complicated than we often give them credit for, right? That we tend to try to, you know, group these candidates in ideological categories or divide the field on the basis of issues. And Mrs. Armstrong talking about how -- and she loves Elizabeth Warren, she really likes Joe Biden too, right? You wouldn't think based on the way a lot of these gets talked about that you would narrow your choices down to those two options.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And one of the things President Obama was able to do when he won was both energize sort of the left, the progressives, as a new face on the stage as well as, you know, be comforting enough to the moderates and people who did not want to move too far-left. Then I think that's one of the reasons Joe Biden is getting support, it's because people connect him to his time with Obama. He's a comfortable candidate for a lot of people and he can still say I have a record that has progressive policies as well.

RESTON: But then they watch him and then they're like is he up to it?

KING: All were comfortable with Biden but those three African- American women have been most impressed by Elizabeth Warren. I think that is the biggest dynamic in the race right now as we go forward. Can Biden hold it or is she coming on? We shall see.

Up next, we return to the pressure of the 2020 Democrats on the stage tonight in debates. CNN's Noah Gray cut Beto O'Rourke in the middle of what you might call morning debate prep.

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NOAH GRAY, CNN PRODUCER: How are you feeling about the debate?

BETO O'ROURKE (D-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm feeling good.

GRAY: Feeling good. What are you doing to prepare?

O'ROURKE: Running.

GRAY: Is this it?

O'ROURKE: Running and thinking through what I want to say tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[12:42:47] KING: Breakthrough is a word you hear a lot in the pre- debate expectations chatter. That's because six of the 10 candidates on stage tonight have not qualified for the party's next debate or debates come September. Marianne Williamson, Congressman Tim Ryan, Senator Amy Klobuchar, former Governor John Hickenlooper, former Congressman John Delaney, and Governor Steve Bullock. Klobuchar is closest among them. She's met the polling requirements but she needs more donors to get across the threshold.

So the struggling candidates will be especially eager to make a mark, even though the Democratic Party chairman expects things will stay civil.

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TOM PEREZ, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I think tonight, people are going to see, again, that we have a deep bench. If people are looking for chair-throwing and name-calling, you better turn the channel to Jerry Springer or something else because you're not going to see it here.

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KING: Maybe not chair-throwing or name-calling, but if you're one of those candidates who, you know, some will say, oh, I didn't make the debates, I'm going to stay in the race. It's hard to raise money, it's hard to climb in the polls if you can't get the national exposure of the debates. What do you do?

RESTON: I mean, you need a breakout moment, a viral moment. And that's what a lot of these candidates have been practicing in their debate prep, like how to land those lines in a way where they sound natural. And the best example of this obviously last time was the Harris/Biden moment that then everyone talked about for 48 hours.

I also think it's really hard for these guys who are on the first night because they only get, you know, 12 hours of the news cycle before we move onto the next big show. And so that time that they have to actually make their mark, you know, people like Beto and John Hickenlooper, people that are sort of in danger of falling off the stage have to really come out there strong.

KUCINICH: And I wouldn't just assume everyone is going to be taking shots at Warren and Sanders. Look at what happened with Julian Castro and Beto O'Rourke during the last debate.

RESTON: Yes.

KUCINICH: That felt personal. It did, it was a little chippy.

KING: Little Texan.

KUCINICH: But he used that exchange, Julian Castro, to really make a name for himself and to raise more money and be able to expand his campaign. So you might see some friction between the moderates themselves as they try to, as you said, stand out.

RESTON: Whereas Bill de Blasio, for example, just interrupting everyone over and over again didn't seem to get anywhere with that.

[12:45:03] KING: And so you have the survivor element to it. I don't want to reality TV it but it is if you're one of these candidates and, you know, maybe you like them, maybe you don't but they're ambitious, it takes a lot to run for president. You're out there doing this, that's a lot of pressure on them. You also have this fascinating dynamic, I'll show you the candidates who have qualified for the next round. We know that former Vice President Biden -- that Senator Sanders, Senator Warren, Buttigieg, and O'Rourke of the candidates tonight, I'm sorry. Biden is tomorrow night. They have already qualified.

But Buttigieg and O'Rourke have an interesting play here. The mayor of South Bend, Pete Buttigieg got in the race early and sort of took the next generation fresh face lane that Beto O'Rourke thought would be his. And if you look at the polling of these candidates over the course of the race, everyone knew Beto, he was a national Democratic name because he ran against Ted Cruz. And he started at 12 percent, Mayor Pete Buttigieg was at four percent.

Now, even though Buttigieg has plateaued some, he's ahead of Beto O'Rourke. The question is does Beto O'Rourke have to do this now? Does he have to try to reclaim that space tonight or can he say I've already qualified for September, let's just wait it out until a fewer people?

BURNS: I think it's a big risk if you try to push that off until September. It's a route that he might decide he wants to take because as we saw in the last debate he's not really a brawler by nature. It's not necessary what he's good at. But it's going to be a long summer for Beto O'Rourke if he doesn't have a moment in tonight's debate. And the base that he needs to get back went in large part to Pete Buttigieg and to some extent also probably to Elizabeth Warren, right?

That there was a great deal of enthusiasm for Beto O'Rourke among more educated women who have really swung hard in this race away from him.

OLORUNNIPA: And look at the fundraising that Buttigieg has been able to pull together over the last quarter, even after the last debate. He's shown that he is a powerhouse at least on the fundraising side and continued debates, like you had the last time, may help him continue to fill his coffers. And if he does that, that will help him to propel his candidacy even if he is low in the polls, we still have a long time before anybody votes. If he's raising money like he has been, he could still be a contender.

KING: Right, he definitely has the resources to go on. What I'm looking for out of Mayor Buttigieg, for example, is what's the -- what's his reason? You know, (INAUDIBLE) me, not them. We'll see how that one plays out.

When we come back, the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell responds to an allegation by a Washington Post columnist that he's a, quote, Russian asset.

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[12:51:59] KING: President Trump this morning with a defense of the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and as part of the president's defense, a ridiculous claim about the Washington Post. Listen.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Washington Post called Mitch McConnell what? I think the Washington Post is a Russian asset by comparison. Mitch McConnell loves our country.

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KING: The Washington Post is not a Russian asset but the president making that criticism. It's all in reaction to a Washington Post opinion piece. An opinion column by Dana Milbank who accused the Senate majority leader of acting, quote, like a Russian asset, that because leader McConnell blocked election security legislation the Democrats wanted to pass in the Senate. Yesterday, Leader McConnell himself went to the Senate floor to defend himself.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The outraged industrial complex needed a new target. And that's where I come in. Mitch McConnell, the hawkish foreign policy conservative who spent decades pushing back on Russia every way I can think of.

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KING: CNN's Phil Mattingly joins our conversation. I've known the leader for a long time. He was ticked off.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That was -- the opening speech on the Senate floor is traditionally laying out what's happening in the week ahead or what's happening in the day ahead. Mitch McConnell often almost always allows attacks to just kind of roll off his back. He kind of sees himself I think for the Republican conference as the heat shield. For him to come out in a very lengthy, very detailed, and very spicy, I would even say, response underscored how much this kind of pierced him a little bit.

And I think the reality here is this. Blunt political attacks are effective because they lack nuance and because they force the people they're attacking to come and try and explain that nuance. That's what Mitch McConnell attempted to do on the floor because what he's being attacked for is not that he's a Russian asset in any way, shape, or form.

I think his foreign policy record would say it's the exact opposite. It's that ideologically he's opposed to where Democrats are and some Republicans are on these election security issues particularly as it pertains to the federal versus state role in these elections. And that's a difficult thing sometimes to explain particularly when you had Robert Mueller just a week ago talking to members of Congress saying it's still happening, it's happening right now. McConnell is not going to move off that since he's been there for 20 or 30 years. And yesterday was an effort to try and push back on the attacks.

I will note, there is some bipartisan legislation related to information-sharing on the defense apparatus that I think people thought might move that has been blocked but that's not the broader issue here. They're attacking him bluntly saying he's in favor of Russia and that's just -- that's not technically the case from (INAUDIBLE) perspective.

KING: Is it too much to ask that the president understand the difference between an opinion columnist and the Washington Post at- large or is the president we know is not a fan of Jeff Bezos who owns the paper, is he just throwing it out there anyway just because?

MATTINGLY: Have at it, Toluse.

OLORUNNIPA: Phil talked about the lack of nuance. This is a president who traffics in sort of non-nuanced discussions. So rather than saying, you know, that I don't like this columnist, he says, you know, I don't like the entire paper, the whole paper is a Russian asset.

So Mitch McConnell in some ways is suffering from the world that Donald Trump has trafficked in which is, you know, you attack your opponents in the most broad way possible and force them to defend themselves.

[12:55:05] This is a president that does this regularly. He's doing that with the Washington Post saying that the paper is an actual Russian asset, and now Mitch McConnell is having to sort of deal with that same political climate that the president has found himself very comfortable with.

BURNS: The other way McConnell is dealing with a world that Trump has created, right, is that the Republican Party has not sort of taken assertive steps since the 2016 election with the power that they have to show that they are affirmatively trying to fight Russian meddling and other foreign interference in American elections. McConnell has complained to people that the president sees any discussion of foreign interference in American elections as an attack on his own legitimacy. And if you accept those constraints, this is the political predicament you find yourself in.

KING: All right, thanks for joining us in the INSIDE POLITICS today. Remember, a big debate tonight. Brianna Keilar takes the chair after a quick break.

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