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Inside Politics
Republicans Grapple With How To Respond To Whistleblower; GOP, White House Defaulted To The "He Was Joking" Defense Before; GOP Homeland Security Chairman: I Don't Trust The FBI Or CIA; Lindsey Graham: Trump's Syria Pullout Gives ISIS "Second Lease On Life"; Rick Perry: Trump And Giuliani Didn't Mention Bidens In Ukraine Discussions. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired October 07, 2019 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00]
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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thank you for sharing your day with us. The second whistleblower hires lawyers and House Democrats prepare to interview key witnesses, believing Republicans adopt a see no evil approach and saying their minds are made up despite any new facts that might emerge.
Plus, there's big Republican pushback for the President's overnight decision to pull U.S. troops from Syria. Conservative voices warning the Kurds could be slaughtered and that the President is handing Russia and Iran a big gift.
And the President's point man on immigration tries to make his case at Georgetown University, but gives up in the face of protest.
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KEVIN MCALEENAN, ACTING DHS SECRETARY: Good morning, everyone. Thank you for your kind introduction. As a career law enforcement professional, I've dedicated career to protecting the rights of free speech and all the values we hold here in America from all threats. Large scale immigration quotes. Okay. Thank you. Have a good day.
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KING: We begin the hour with the Republican Party on a hunt for a defense strategy, especially as new twists emerge in the Democrats' efforts to investigate and eventually impeach the President. Many Republican lawmakers being asked repeatedly to respond to claims President Trump using his power in the levers of official foreign policy to pressure Ukraine and now China to dig up 2020 election dirt. The newest strategy insists it's a joke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he did it to gig you guys.
SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): I doubt if the China comment was serious, to tell you the truth.
REP. JIM JORDON (R-OH): You really think he was serious about thinking that China was going to investigate the Biden family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You watched what the President said. He's not saying China is investigating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Let's put that to the fact check, Mr. Minority Leader. Watch the President. Yes, he did say that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: China just started an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Strategy door number two politicize it Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell making this quip today during an event to prevent a new initiative to combat Opioid Abuse.
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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) MAJORITY LEADER: It's an opportunity to advance causes like this and it's the kind of thing that gives my colleagues and enormous job satisfaction. There are few distractions, as you may have noticed, but if you sort of keep your head on straight and remember why you were sent there, there are opportunities to do important things for the country.
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KING: Behind strategy door number 3, just stay silent and hope the subject changes by the time the House and the Senate return to work after a recess. They return next week. The subject likely won't change.
Here with me today to share their reporting and their insights CNN's Abby Phillip, Alex Thompson with "POLITICO", Rachael Bade with "The Washington Post" and Jackie Kucinich with "The Daily Beast" different answers on which Republican is in the Chair being asked these questions about the President's conduct.
The idea that we shouldn't take the President seriously when he's talking about incredibly serious issues we've heard this before. I just want to put some of the headlines as we start the conversation. Donald Trump, I was being sarcastic about Obama and ISIS. Donald Trump defends the lewd videotape from "Access Hollywood" tape its locker room talk, it's just joking between guys.
White House says Trump was joking when he said police should be rough with suspects. Trump was joking about when he accused Democrats of treason. Trump was joking about loving "WikiLeaks". Republicans said Trump just kidding about ceasing absolute power in
not leaving the White House if he loses the election. Trump only jokes about China serve a third term. Trump says he was joking when he called himself the chosen one. This is the Republican defense that the President is a standup comedian.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a defense mechanism and it has been from the very beginning. Remember in the campaign when the President announced in a press conference he wanted to ban Muslims from entering the United States, a lot of Republicans then thought it was hyperbole or some kind of campaign gimmick.
And then he was elected and tried to do just that, so this is a strategy the Republicans have been using to cope with Trump since Trump was a candidate, and now we're seeing it applied to this situation in Ukraine. The issue, though, with China in particular is that we - CNN has reported that the President did raise the issue of Joe Biden with China's President Xi Jinping in a conversation.
Why would that have ever happened? Just on its face, why would the President have ever raised Joe Biden in a conversation with China's President is something that I think a lot of Republicans ought to ask, and there are a lot of Democratic candidates and Democratic Senators now saying, actually, maybe we should see those calls because I think it certainly seemed unlikely that the President would raise this Ukraine issue if you would have asked him a couple months ago, and now we know as a matter of fact that he did exactly that.
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PHILLIP: He made a request, do me a favor, investigate Joe Biden.
KING: And so one would think given how outrageous and out of the norms it is to ask the President of Ukraine, do me a favor, bring up Biden, while you withholding security aid, or bring it up in a call with the President of China can you look for dirt on the Biden family? That's outrageous whether the presence of Democrat or Republican.
You would think that some Republicans might say, you know what Democrats are way out over their skis. We don't know if this is an impeachable offense, or I don't think this is an impeachable offense but let's get some answers. But you don't see that. I want to read some of your reporting in "The Washington Post."
Trump is shaking the foundations of the Republicans. He's poking his fingers in all of the places where we have norms and traditions and things both parties have respected for years, and he's blown all of those out the window. That's Kerry Kircher Former House Counsel for the Republican Majority. It's just gotten worse steadily worse with each President being more and more resistance to Congressional oversight.
It didn't start with Trump. He certainly takes to the next level. Former Representative Tom Davis again a Republican. Now a more moderate Republican but you have establishment figures in the Republican Party, especially those who are not currently in power, looking at those in power at the moment and saying he's trampling you.
RACHAEL BADE, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, I mean, a lot of these Republicans are worried about the future of the Republican Party. I mean, if Republicans in office today sort of stick with Trump and they're not willing to sort of say this is not acceptable, they're worried that this is going to alienate independence, people who traditionally vote Republican who are going to be voting against Trump and could side with Democrats.
I think what you're seeing right now is Republicans just throwing spaghetti at the wall. They're trying all different things to try to see what is the best defense? Is it just sort of denial like McCarthy did which was easily debunked in a fact check? Is it to divert the attention to Democrats? What is the best strategy here?
And I think it was interesting to hear Tucker Carlson over the weekend very close with the President, very close with the White House saying this is bad but not impeachable. Are Republicans going to start saying that? If they do, we've seen that Trump is not comfortable with that line as he went after Mitt Romney just a couple of days ago for saying something very similar. So I don't think they know how to respond.
JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: And that seems to be the fourth path, right, let's look into this. I don't know if it's impeachable but there needs to be an investigation. Will Hurd say some sort of version of that last night on "60 minutes" even that is few and far between?
KING: Right. And the question is what will they do? And this - you both make very key points here, because Lindsey Graham for example, who is out there defending the President, says I don't want to hear from another whistleblower. I don't care. Think about that. He would be on the jury in the Senate that's the jury if you have an impeachment in the House and then it goes to trial in the Senate.
I don't know he will listen to the facts. He has a Committee. If he thought there was something to be done about Hunter Biden, he could call a hearing, I would urge him to do so and then open it up just say the Transportation Department and the EPA and the Interior Department. They don't want to have this conversation and hearing. I think they have the power and the authority to do, but they just want to talk about it.
But to your point, then it's the President's hold on the Republican Party, in the sense that if they get in his face, especially with primary challenges, primary deadline is still open he will chop them. And number two, if the President comes down, they might lose the Senate. This is about power.
ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO: And what makes impeachment may be potentially different than what's happened in the past, as you noted, there is a lot of muscle memory built up among Republicans of just hunkering down and waiting it out. Unlike the other ones where a new cycle comes along, impeachment is going to drag out for months, so Republicans are going to have to be asked this every single day for months to come, and it's unclear if this old strategy is still going to work in this new impeachment context.
KING: It's a great point because this going to go on into the election year, as we go through this where leads up close to the election year and whatever the fallout is will carry over into the election. Here is another example of Republicans Ron Johnson is the Senate Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, very important Committee when it comes to say election meddling.
He is someone who was quoted in "The Wall Street Journal" last week is saying he called the President because he was very upset. Because he was told by the man who will testify this week the President's Ambassador to the European Union there was a quid pro quo that the President was withholding security assistance to Ukraine until the Ukrainians convinced and they were going to do these investigations.
Now Senator Johnson says the President assured him that was not the case but asks him about it on a television show after he has quoted publicly in a way that makes the President mad, and this is what you get.
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SEN. RON JOHNSON, (R-WI): I just want the truth. The American people want the truth.
CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: Do you not trust the FBI, you don't trust the CIA?
JOHNSON: No, I don't.
TODD: I'm just confused here.
JOHNSON: Absolutely not.
TODD: After James Comey--
JOHNSON: I don't trust any of these guys in the Obama administration.
TODD: You don't trust them now?
JOHNSON: No, I didn't trust them back then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He's got a Committee. Again, he has a Committee. If they can't be trusted, if there's really a deep state and you can prove it, use your gavel and prove it. Otherwise that's reckless.
PHILLIP: This is really amazing.
BADE: I mean this is the party of law and order that is now saying you cannot trust the FBI. You cannot trust the CIA.
[12:10:00]
BADE: Ron Johnson is particularly interesting because everybody thought he was going to lose his reelection in 2016 and it was actually the President who really pulled him through and got him--
PHILLIP: He was left for dead by the party.
BADE: Exactly. The party had left and pulled out of Wisconsin. So he was never in any danger of turning on the President, but it sounds like in this interview with "The Wall Street Journal" he admitted someone came to him there was a quid pro quo and it made him cringe. People clearly got to him and really like this is that and you got to walk it back, and he is trying to divert attention.
PHILLIP: And because it could be the key to what happens today Sondland, the person who told him that, is going to be testifying. He's going to have to answer for why he told Ron Johnson that in a private conversation. I mean, I think this is - this is a lynch pin moment for Democrats who are trying to pry open the question of whether or not even people in the administration believed there was an explicit quid pro quo.
KING: Right, so we're going to come to the evidence, that part, in just a moment. But again, as you try to get there, as you try to go through this and again if you're a Republican, you can say the Democrats are out there too far, you believe already saying to impeach the President. But it's hard not to say can we try to answer to some of the questions here.
But here's Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader, essentially the foreman of the jury, the guy who would run the show if the House votes to impeach and it went over to the Senate the man who would be in charge of deciding how it goes? So he should keep an open mind, right? He should see where the evidence goes, right? And then make a decision? Nah.
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MCCONNELL: They finally convince you to impeach the President. All of you know your constitution. Whenever impeachment stops is when the Senate Majority, with me as the Majority Leader. But I need your help. Please contribute before the deadline.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He would actually make that decision this year. He's up for reelection next year, but that's just your government at work, send me money to help me with my reelection and I promise you before I've seen any evidence that we will just turn a blind eye great.
KUCINICH: Nakedly political is what it is. That's what this is. That said, he probably should advise the President to stop dragging his potential jurors who are Republicans on Twitter if, in fact, there is going to be a trial.
BADE: And then if the polls are changing in the next few weeks, we'll have to see because they seem to be moving with Democrats and independent voters, right? So how long people like McConnell can actually make this a campaign pitch reelect us and we'll protect the President - easier to be seen. THOMPSON: Remember it's not just McConnell either, Trump's reelection campaign has already raised millions and millions of dollars just off this impeachment threat and we're not even close to a House vote yet.
KING: Well, that's a great point. It may work for McConnell in red Kentucky, Susan Collins in Maine, Cory Gardner in Colorado. There are a few others out there where it's a much more interesting climate for them. We'll track at a Federal Judge they're delivering a big blow to the President's fight to keep his tax returns secret.
Judge Victor Moreno throwing out President Trump's lawsuit that suit was designed to stop New York prosecutors from attaining eight years of the President's tax returns the judge rejecting the President's claim that the White House has "Absolute immunity from criminal process of any kind".
The President's lawyers though indicating they will appeal and for now the second circuit says they'll press pause on those subpoenas until they hear the case. The President is accounting for him says it will respect the legal process and fully comply with whatever the final court decision is in this case. The President himself you can see it there saying the subpoenas are another extension what he calls the "Democratic Witch Hunt".
Up next for us a late night foreign policy curveball has some Republicans on Capitol Hill saying the Republican President is leaving the Kurds to die.
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KING: A giant American foreign policy shift overnight that some worry opens the door now to genocide. The United States now says the Kurds are on their own. The Kurds say today they've been stabbed in the back, this after the President ordered the pullout from U.S. forces from Northern Syria that order coming late last night.
The President this morning explaining himself on Twitter, he says the decision delivers on his America first promise to get out of what he calls, "Ridiculous, endless wars". But the decision goes against the advice of the President's military advisers who worries a Turkish slaughter of the Kurds might happen and would be a big gift to ISIS some of those warnings being echoed today by Republicans on Capitol Hill.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a policy you can support?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. If I didn't see Donald Trump stating it on a tweet, I thought it was Obama's rationale for getting out of Iraq. This impulsive decision by the President has undone all the gains we've made, thrown the region into further chaos. Iran is licking their chops, and if I'm an ISIS fighter, I have got a second lease on life. I think a lot of military people are sad today that we've given back the battlefield to the enemy.
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KING: CNN's Ben Wedeman is live for us in Beirut. Ben, take us through the implications of this.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the implications are huge for one thing yet again the Kurds are being betrayed by those who helped them. But really there is an air of shock certainly when we speak to anybody who lives in that part of Syria.
One of our producers contacted one of the fixers we've worked with before who lives near the Turkish border, and we called him to see if he would be able to work with us, and he said, listen, I need to leave with my family as soon as possible. I cannot work with anybody at the moment.
So there is a real sense of impending doom in some parts of Northeastern Syria since this announcement came out. Not everyone, however, is reacting with doom.
[12:20:00]
WEDEMAN: The Syrians, for instance, are saying that this is another instance of United States and Turkey plotting against Syrian Sovereignty, and we saw a statement from Javad Zarif, the Iranian Foreign Minister, saying that Iran is ready to help. John?
KING: Ben Wedeman for us in Beirut ready to help. I appreciate the reporting from region. Our Military and Diplomatic Analyst Rear Admiral John Kirby joins the conversation. To the geopolitics that Ben was touching on at the end here, and then I want to get into more of the details. In terms of the President - Turkey has now moved troops to the border. In a minute I'm going to get to a warning the President just issued. Who benefits here, Russia or Iran?
JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Russia and Iran clearly benefit. I mean, the SDF not only have they been good fighters against ISIS, they've in part and parcel been fighting against the regime. This eases up tension on the Assad Regime which of course makes Russia and Iran's world much better inside Syria.
KING: And so the President just before we came on the air for this sending this tweet, trying to explain himself and you help me translate. Some of the language is interesting, to say the least. As I have said strongly before, and let me reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, considered to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the economy of Turkey.
They must with Europe and others watch over and of course I don't want to say. The President of United States, these are his words. "In my great and unmatched wisdom considered to be off limits", what is he trying to say here, the great wisdom aside?
KIRBY: It seems to me like he's gotten some pushback since his tweet storm this morning saying that he is going to step aside and let Turkey at it. Whether it's Lindsey Graham, whether it's military advisers obviously somebody has gotten him and told him about the repercussions here of that Turkey power grab, which is what this would be in Northeast Syria.
So he's - this sounds to me like he is sort of trying to say, look, I'm not weak, I'm not advocating American leadership here, I'll fight back if Turkey goes too far. But the question John is what's too far? He's already signaled that he's not going to oppose this insurgent, so where is it go from there and what are the red lines that he's going to draw in terms of how he is going to react to Turkey? We don't know that.
KING: We've seen it in the past when he says he was going to pull out of Afghanistan. We've seen in the past even when he said he is going to pull out of Syria the hawkish voices in his own party a push back. The Pentagon has pushed back, the State Department has pushed back and ultimately he has moved at least mostly back to where they want to be.
This is to your point, now you heard Lindsey Graham at the top of the block. This is Nikki Haley the President's Former Ambassador to the United Nations who is generally loyal to the President. We must always have the backs of our allies if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria.
Leaving them to die is a big mistake. He says the President of United States is leaving to die, okay, the force, the fighting force that has been a key U.S. ally. Liz Cheney the Republican Congresswoman from Wyoming, withdrawing U.S. forces from Northern Syria is a catastrophic mistake that puts our gains against ISIS at risk and threatens U.S. security. This decision ignores the lesson of 9/11. Terrorists thousands of miles away can and will use their safe havens to launch attacks against America. That's pretty tough stuff.
KIRBY: But it is also accurate. I mean, look, if you just look at Syria from a selfish national security interest we still have interests there against ISIS while the caliphate of physical caliphate has been destroyed, they're still recruiting there, they can still train there, they still want to resource there they still want to resurge there and else were. So it's important that we stay engaged.
So they are not wrong. Now Nikki Haley may have political ambitions of her own which may answer why she pushed back on the President, but the main point is accurate. When you look at it from a counter-ISIS perspective, this is a foolish move.
KING: Appreciate your insights. Admiral, we'll watch it. We'll see if that tweet was the beginning of the retreat, but it's hard to say. Up next for us, back to the impeachment inquiry and the latest on the emerging second whistleblower.
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KING: Back now to new developments in the impeachment inquiry. Just this hour Democrats issuing new subpoenas for the Pentagon and to the office of management and budget for documents related to administrative policy in Ukraine this as we head into a big week of new testimony.
Two Trump Administration diplomats will testify about the President's efforts to time military aid in Ukraine to green lighting investigations of Joe Biden and his son Hunter. Overseas, this morning, the Trump Energy Secretary Rick Perry says, "He absolutely did urge the President to call Ukraine's President". But Perry says it was about energy and corruption, not about the Bidens something he swore to in an interview the other day.
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RICK PERRY, ENERGY SECRETARY: I never heard, and I talked to the President about this. I had a conversation, phone call with Rudy Giuliani about it; I've talked to the previous Ambassador. I've talked to the current Ambassador, I've talked to Kurt Volker - I mean, Gordon Sondland, the EU Ambassador, every name that you've seen out in the media, and not once, not once, as God is my witness, not once was Biden named. Not the Former Vice President or his son ever mentioned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Significant there because there have been some rumblings that some finger pointing within the administration, if you will. Rick Perry saying I was doing my job and Bidens didn't come up. If you read the text messages that released last week, if you see other things the Bidens obviously did come up in other conversations. Secretary Perry saying, not me I have nothing to add to your investigation.
THOMPSON: And as Rick Perry's iron in the axe, as you notice that he didn't defend the President, either.
