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Inside Politics

Donald Trump Rails Against Impeachment: "More Difficult" To Get Things Done; Donald Trump Spends Holiday Week On Impeachment, Pelosi; Donald Trump Again Attacks Pelosi, Democrats Over Impeachment; Senators Grapple With How To Handle Impeachment; Biden's Democratic Supporters Calculate His Appeal To Moderate Republicans. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired December 26, 2019 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to "Inside Politics." I'm Dana Bash. John King is off today. Thank you for sharing your day with us.

President Trump lashes out on Twitter as the waiting game continues for any progress on the Senate impeachment trial. And on the 2020 campaign trail, Former Vice President Joe Biden supporters think he can appeal to moderates. Does that include, "Reasonable Republican Dads"?

Plus, campaigning in the 21st century means perfecting a new art. We take a closer look at the Selfie Campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I love that you have a tattoo. Let's do a Selfie. I'm coming in on 100,000 selfies.

I thought I would first tell you a little bit about who I am, secondly, tell you why I'm in this race. Third, we'll have some questions and then the most important part of democracy, selfies!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: We begin this hour with the President spending yet another day of his holiday break about obsessing on Twitter about impeachment. It's been eight days since the House voted to impeach him, largely along party lines, and it seems a few days in the Florida sun have not done much to distract him.

Here's just one of his many tweets just this morning. He said, despite all of the great success that our country has had over the last three years, it makes it much more difficult to deal with foreign leaders and others when I'm having to constantly defend myself against the do nothing Democrats and their bogus impeachment scam. Bad for USA, with a classic exclamation point at the end there.

CNN's Sarah Westwood joins me now live from West Palm Beach. Sarah, what are you learning about the President's mindset aside from what he's displaying on Twitter?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN REPORTER: Well Dana, we're learning that the President Trump is growing more and more eager to have his symbolic day in court. He wants to get on with his Senate trial as you mentioned. He's been railing against Speaker Pelosi from withholding the articles of impeachment from the Senate nearly every day of his time down here in West Palm Beach.

And while the President Trump is growing increasingly impatient about the fact that the Senate trial doesn't look anywhere close to starting, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is signaling that he's not at all anxious to get on with the trial. That is something that he said earlier this week.

He also said that Speaker Pelosi isn't really exercising leverage by withholding something from the Senate that those lawmakers would rather not deal with in the first place. President Trump really caught in a standoff between Congressional Democrats and Republicans right now over how this trial will unfold?

Sources tell CNN that President Trump is agitated increasingly about the uncertainty surrounding his trial as he spends his time mostly behind closed doors here at his Mar-a-Lago resort, keeping in mind he had totally given up what he wanted to see in a Senate trial. At one time he wanted something theatrical with a lot of live witnesses, but this week speaking to reporters at Mar-a-Lago he said that he's still open to whatever it is McConnell can agree on but crucially McConnell and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer have to come to some kind of agreement in the future. President Trump though really hoping to see that agreement come together sooner rather than later, Dana.

BASH: Yes which is understandable? Thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate that. Here to share their reporting and insights, CNN's Phil Mattingly and Maeve Reston, Catherine Lucey with "The Wall Street Journal" and in Atlanta today Errin Haines with "The Associated Press".

Happy post-Christmas, everybody. We're still digesting. Phil Mattingly, let's just all of you really but I just want to show on the screen just the visual of what we're talking about, a President tweeting like gangbusters even on and around Christmas, even on holiday.

To say President Trump tweets a lot, it's like saying it's a day that ends in why, right? But it is a gift for us in one key way in that we always get a sense of what he's thinking and where he is emotionally and strategically?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure. And I think it's exacerbated when he's in Mar-a-Lago. I think it's always been the case that he has got more free time he has more time to himself and usually that ends up showing itself in 280 characters to some degree or another.

I think the interesting thing is we know where his head is on this issue. He said it publicly, he's very anxious for the trial, he's frustrated that Pelosi decided not to send the articles of impeachment over or name the impeachment managers until she has a better sense of what the Senate trial will actually look like.

I think we've seen that over Twitter as well. What I think is actually kind of more interesting here, and Catherine, you would have a better sense than I would because where the White House is on this. If you look at the last couple of weeks of economic numbers if you look at even retail sales in just 20 hours ago, he tweeted in all caps about a bump in retail sales, where consumers are right now.

[12:05:00]

MATTINGLY: That, more than anything else, is where Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and the rest of the Republican conference would like him to be spending all of his time right now. The fact that the U.S. economy after a couple of months where people thinking a recession was may be coming or maybe we were on the verge of one, is now in a much better place than it seem like they would ever be at this point in time.

That's when people like in the - that said we've been saying this since 2017, and he's going to do what he does. I don't think there's any question about it.

BASH: And because you mentioned about, I just want t to pull up a poll on that very question, about the economy. 76 percent of voters say the economy is good, but if you look more specifically into it, 97 percent of Republicans - that's unheard of - and even most importantly, 62 percent of Democrats, 75 percent of independents. And so this has been a longstanding frustration of the President's political team and allies that he doesn't just focus like a laser on this issue.

CATHERINE LUCEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, he has long tried to do both. We saw this back and forth heading to the midterms in 2018. There were a lot of people who wanted to focus on the economy, vulnerable lawmakers well, they wanted that to - and then somebody decided no. He wanted to talk about immigration, he wanted to talk about the other things, and he did not make that like leading focus.

I think going into next year, he certainly does want to talk about this. You see him tweet about it you see him talk about it you see him talk about these are the great things that he says he is doing. The China deal, the things that they've been working on NAFTA reboot, but he also sees that impeachment galvanizes and energizes his voters.

And they know that as well. At the campaign did a debriefing a couple weeks ago leading up to the end of the year, they talk about how this has juiced up donations, enthusiasm at rallies, they see energy out of voters and President sees this is well. So they do see both of these as being advantageous.

BASH: That's totally fair, but the question, the age old question for any politician but it's even more sort of exacerbated when you're Donald Trump is are there enough members of your base to get out, or are there people you can bring back in or bring in at all to vote for you who would just vote for you because they're happy about the economy and hold their nose on the other issues?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I mean for sure we have met voters in swing states like that all the time who say that they have, you know - such particularly in Michigan is a place that comes to mind - they have such investigation fatigue with all of this that they have gotten to the point where they have completely tuned it out.

I think that is the real question about the trial that's upcoming, is do in some way does the Senate trial make people pay attention in a way they weren't before? Particularly those voters who say my 401(k) is great, my mom is doing okay in her job, and, you know, I have more disposable income than I have had in a long time.

Those folks right now are feeling more drawn toward supporting Trump, especially when they're thinking about, you know, potentially a Warren or a Sanders up against him. But I will also say that what I think is so fascinating just about the tweeting right now is that night when you were covering Pelosi, both of you at Capitol Hill, and she pulled her power move saying she was going to withhold the articles, everybody was discussing what kind of leverage she had, and really it was leverage of Trump driving him completely crazy over the Christmas break because he's not getting the acquittal that he wanted right away, and there was this level of uncertainty there.

ERRIN HAINES, NATIONAL WRITER ON RACE AND ETHNICITY, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": I think that's exactly right Dana.

BASH: Errin, go ahead.

HAINES: Yes, I was going to say you to May's point, we do know that impeachment has been weighing heavily on President's mind mainly because of his activity on Twitter which has in recent weeks particularly around this topic. And so I think that he certainly recognizes that's something that's going to galvanize his base, but even more than that you know you have this impeachment trial getting underway at the same time that more voters are starting to tune in to the election.

And while impeachment is not something that voters have necessarily said they cared about up to this point, as I've heard from them on the campaign trail, this is probably - because these two things are about to coincide, probably something that they are going to start weighing in on in terms of whether it is going to be a factor in how they vote in these early primary states?

BASH: You know I want to go back to what you said about Nancy Pelosi in a second, but as we think about and talk about the whole question about the economy, why doesn't he talk about it more? There is a flip side to this argument which is the President won the Midwestern states in particular by appealing to the forgotten man and woman who either didn't vote anymore or tended to vote Democrat.

[12:10:00]

BASH: There is no guarantee that they are feeling this good economy. And so by talking up the economy, are you reminding these people that the President didn't help you as much as he said he would?

MATTINGLY: I think it's the big question. You mentioned Michigan, when you go into Michigan and see what has or hasn't happened based on what was or wasn't promised during the campaign trail, and I think it differs where you are in the state. But I think on med particularly on the industrial side of the state he probably hasn't let it out to the degree that he promised it would during the campaign.

To be fair, he made some pretty big and bold promises during the campaign. My greatest question now, and admittedly I've been locked in the Capitol on impeachment and not in the campaign trial where you guys have to get a lot of these questions answers is the top line enough to filter down to those who may be on the disposable income or at least in wage increases which have lied a little bit further behind we see on job numbers for the last couple of months.

That they're feeling kind of the broader sentiment what we're seeing and may be - and how consumers are spending right now is taking hold more so than the people on the ground who are saying, I'm not really seeing it myself, but it looks good overall and therefore I'm going to stick with it.

LUCEY: The other thing I think you hear, too, when you talk to people in states like Michigan or Wisconsin, is that they see him fighting over these things, so just how much they're feeling it individually maybe different but they do appreciate or they say they appreciate that they see him trying to go to bat for these things, trying to fight the fights and that does seems to his supporters very meaningful.

BASH: Everybody--

HAINES: Catherine is exactly right.

BASH: Errin go ahead.

HAINES: I was just going to say that what I hear a lot from a lot of his voters is that they're frustrated by things like impeachment which they say is distracting him from being able to do some of the things that he has promised that he's going to do on things like the economy.

BASH: All right. Thanks. We have a lot more to talk about. Up next, the impeachment is heading to the Senate eventually and every member is getting a very close look ahead at the impeachment trial. We're going to look at some of the key Senators after a quick break.

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BASH: The impeachment drama is headed to the Senate next, and there are some key members to keep an eye on there. Key Senators you see there from both sides of the aisle includes Lisa Murkowski from Alaska. Murkowski is a moderate Republican who said she's undecided on how she'll vote on impeachment, and she did voice concerns about her own Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell saying he's coordinating with the White House on how to approach impeachment.

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SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): In fairness, when I heard that, I was disturbed. To me it means that we have to take that step back from being hand in glove with the defense. And so I heard what Leader McConnell had said. I happen to think that that has further confused the process.

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BASH: And we're back with our panel. You walk those halls every day, you talk to these Senators. What are you hearing from them about the cross-current of pressures they're feeling back home?

MATTINGLY: So I think it's important to state at the top, nobody is expecting the votes to remove the President from office.

BASH: Fair point.

MATTINGLY: This fight is about the structure of the trial. The fight you're seeing Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer push for right now is to try and lock in witnesses, try and lock in subpoenas for documents. That's where they want Republicans votes right now, not that they think they're going to get 20 or more Republicans to vote to remove the President.

So they're targeting people like Lisa Murkowski like Susan Collins some of the older balls--

BASH: The list which you put out.

MATTINGLY: If you put up the list, it's instructive to actually go through it. You can have people that are up for reelection in tough races in swing states in 2020. People like Tom Tillis like Corey Gardner. You have people that are leaving the Senate who are considered kind of institutional that are retiring, people like Lamar Alexander and Pat Roberts you don't see up there right now.

You have Mitt Romney who is kind of in a category himself and you have on the Democratic side as well. People like Christian who had no idea where she stands on this right now Doug Jones obviously in the toughest of tough reelection races and Joe Mansion who is Joe Mansion. I do think one thing to keep in mind here. One is this is about the structure, and Democrats are trying to get people to support their effort for witnesses and documents.

And two, this idea that just because you are in a tough reelection battle in swing state doesn't mean you're more minimal to voting against the President.

BASH: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: If you're someone like Corey Gardner or you're someone like Tom Tillis and to some degree if you're someone like Susan Collins, voting against the President whether it's on structure or on removal essentially is a clear shot you're chances inside your state. You need that base support to have any shot at all.

So the cross-currents are more complicated I think on this and maybe they were on health care may be they were on the Supreme Court vote as well. And that's why I think we're all watching very closely when somebody like Lisa Murkowski says what she says. Is she tipping her hand or is she also notes shared concerns at the House Democratic process? So how much is she leaning on that?

BASH: Exactly. But what you said is so important, and I'm glad you said it, that we're talking about these votes when it comes to how a trial is structured? Just to go a step further on that explanation, how a trial is structured means which witnesses will come forward, which witnesses will be allowed to testify or asked to testify, compelled to testify, potentially, will potentially go a step further in shaking public opinion.

And so public opinion is very, you know, partisan right now, and you're sort of stuck about 50-50. Any of those witnesses that the Democrats want, the top Trump officials who could say yea or nay to these allegations based on their experience could change public opinion.

RESTON: They could, and I think that for some of those Senators, certainly Mitt Romney, definitely Lisa Murkowski who we just heard from, and Collins to some point, it is important for them to have some semblance of what seems like a real trial.

[12:20:00]

RESTON: They know that this is a different historic moment, this is not some legislative vote, and I think the one risk for them is being perceived as, you know, Republican Senators who just went along with exactly what the President wanted and didn't take this process seriously and didn't demand what is laid out, you know, by our founders about what this should look like.

And particularly Mitt Romney because I think that he - we know he's been reading a lot of books about impeachment, he definitely feels a sense of this being a moral issue, and I'm sure is hearing the voice of his dad who was such a figure, and a principal figure in Republican figure, saying take this seriously and show that you're taking it seriously.

BASH: In fact during last impeachment or two impeachments ago I think. Errin, I want you to look at a very interesting poll that sort of helps guide us on those Senators I should say who are up for reelection in 2020. If you're a member of Congress imposed impeachment, how would it affect your vet? More likely to vote for them, 23 percent, less like to vote for them, 37 percent, no difference either way, 38 percent. What does that tell you?

HAINES: Well, it tells me that 38 percent saying no difference, I don't know how that number changes once you actually have voters tuned in to an impeachment trial, and to your point, those witnesses that could sway public opinion, you know, could have them thinking differently, you know, by the time we get to the end of that. That is certainly something that you would think has to be on the minds of Senator Murkowski, who as you saw speaking directly to voters on local television back in anchorage, Senator Doug Jones who is in Alabama and certainly has to take this into consideration. You know, seeing how this is playing out for voters is something that these Senators are definitely going to be paying attention to as impeachment comes into focus just as these early primary states get to actual voting.

BASH: Yes, and we should say, as I come to you, Catherine, Senator Murkowski is sort of in a league of her own in that she lost a Republican primary, she did not get the support of the Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, so there is no love loss there, and yet she did go on to use her name ID to win in a write-in campaign.

LUCEY: That's absolutely right, I mean, she occupies a unique space, but what we have seen throughout the presidency is real Republican loyalty across the board. Those who have gone up against him on issues have really paid a price people have laughed at the result or he has I mean, as you have seen last few days has no problem targeting people on Twitter, making things very difficult.

And I think some of what's happening now is this impasse on how the process proceeds? All these members are back home; there is time for this issue to sort of breathe. They're hearing from constituents, they're hearing from people and that's also I think going to play into sort of what we're hearing sort of a little bit trickle out from folks reacting to it.

BASH: Yes. I mean, in the House that dynamic was hardening of positions.

LUCEY: Yes, that's notable too is how a lot of the minds saying very much at all.

BASH: That's a good point. All right up next, Joe Biden supporters hope he has wide appeal wide enough to bring back disaffected Democrats and may be even Republicans fed up with the President. We're going to discuss after a quick break.

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[12:25:00]

BASH: As the 2020 candidates are on the way back to the campaign trail after Christmas, an encouraging headline for Joe Biden in the "The New York Times." But I would vote for Joe Biden Republicans." It includes several Republicans who are formally in office all acknowledging Biden's appeal.

Former GOP Congressman Carlos Curbelo says Biden is one of the few candidates who could be attractive to disaffected centrist Republicans. And the Obama Defense Secretary Former Republican Senator Chuck Hagel says that other Republicans have actually told him "If Biden is the nominee I will vote for Biden". And some of Biden's Democratic supporters use that when they talk him up. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE VILSACK, FORMER IOWA FIRST LADY: I always say that in my pleasant Iowa if I didn't have any Republican friends, I wouldn't have had any friends at all growing up. So I really like to think about what my candidate who will appeal to independents, and I want my candidate to be able to appeal to my Republican friends as well. I think the person who is best able to lead but also to unite all of us is Joe Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And we are back around the table. Maeve, you spent a lot of time talking to voters in both parties. Do you hear this from Republicans?

RESTON: I do a lot of voter voices stories in different swing states and these people do exist. You do meet them. They are the Republicans who have really severe Trump fatigue, not just about, you know, not so much related to everything going on with impeachment but all the other stuff, the tweeting, what they see as kind of a vulgarity that sometimes comes out of the White House and him targeting people. What's interesting is those people were all hoping for another choice.