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Inside Politics

First Doses Of New Moderna Vaccine To Begin Shipping Out; Oval Office Meeting Included Talk Of Martial Law To Reverse Election; Congress On The Brink Of Deal On $900 Billion Relief Package; Interview With Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA); Biden Emphasizes Historic Diversity In His Cabinet Picks. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired December 20, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:05]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice-over): The deadliest days yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's completely devastating. The hospitals are full. The ICUs are full. The emergency departments are full.

PHILLIP: But there's light at the end of the tunnel.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Make no mistake about it, it's a medical miracle. A vaccine that is safe and effective for the American people.

PHILLIP: Plus, the defeated president still denying reality. While the next president fills out his administration.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a cabinet that's battle-tested, creative, innovative and forward looking. The cabinet looks like America.

PHILLIP: And Congress closes in on a new economic rescue package, but will it be enough for Americans on the brink?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don't know what to do. Like, I can be getting evicted any day now. I have nowhere to go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP (on camera): Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Abby Phillip, in today for John King. Thank you for spending part of your Sunday morning with us.

In a few moments, we'll talk about an extraordinary Friday meeting in the Oval Office that ended in a heated debate over declaring martial law as a way of overturning the election.

But as President Trump turns his focus to a new and alarming way to alter America's votes, the nation is still in the midst of a deadly pandemic. The FDA now has authorized a second coronavirus vaccine, this one from Moderna. And boxes of that vaccine are being loaded onto trucks as we speak which will begin leaving warehouses just this morning.

The government says nearly 6 million doses of the vaccine will be shipped out this week with much more to come every week after that. The first vaccinations last week from Pfizer were focused on health care workers and residents of long-term living facilities.

But members of our nation's leadership are getting shots as well. Both to protect the continuity of government but also to be an example to Americans who are worried about the vaccine's safety.

Vice President Mike Pence is the highest-ranking official to get vaccinated so far along with Surgeon General Jerome Adams.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: Emotionally, I just really am pumped. I'm really pumped, because this is, again, the light at the end of the tunnel we've been waiting for. This is the beginning of the end.

And make no mistake about it -- it's going to be a hard couple weeks. We've still got work to do to get over this surge. But I want people to be encouraged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell followed soon after. President-elect Biden will be vaccinated tomorrow.

It is a remarkable scientific achievement that should eventually end this dark time in our history. But it will not be soon enough for so many. Hospitalizations hit another record last week. Nearly 115,000 Americans currently sick enough from COVID-19 to be in the hospital.

And in just the past week, one in 218 Americans were infected and the virus killed 18,255 people in seven days. It is death on a scale rarely seen in our history.

And this crisis is especially acute in California where they are running out of hospital beds for sick people and medical workers to treat them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES: The state has ordered 5,000 extra body bags, additional refrigerated units for Los Angeles and triggered what's called mutual aid for coroners in our region. That means we expect to have more dead bodies than we have spaces in morgues for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Dr. Anthony Fauci acknowledged how bittersweet this moment feels.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We still are in the middle of a very difficult situation with record numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. But the sweetness is the light at the end of the tunnel, which I can tell you as we get into January, February, March, and April, that light is going to get brighter and brighter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining us now, Dr. Megan Ranney, an emergency room physician and researcher at Brown University and the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, Dr. Ashish Jha.

Thank you both for being with us this morning.

We will get back to this immediate crisis that we're in in a few minutes, but I want to start with the latest good news on the vaccines.

Dr. Jha, the breaking news this morning about the final authorization for the Moderna vaccine to roll out, it's particularly good because the vaccine is easier to distribute than the Pfizer version, and there will be a lot more of it available to Americans.

So what is the significance of this option coming online this morning?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Good morning, Abby. Thanks for having me on.

It is good news. It's great news. We want all the vaccines we can get. The Moderna vaccine looks terrific from a science and data point of view, every bit as safe and effective as the Pfizer vaccine.

[08:05:05]

And right now the key is in the middle of the surge to get the vaccines out, to health care workers, to nursing homes, and then other high risk and other individuals because we've got to start making some progress on the pandemic. Obviously, things are very difficult right now.

PHILLIP: Absolutely. I mean, in some ways worse than they have ever been.

But, Dr. Ranney, you received the Pfizer vaccine on Friday. What was that experience like, and how are you feeling this morning?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: I think the best description of it is Dr. Fauci's word, it was bittersweet. Watching the vaccine go into my arm was a moment of joy, of pride in science, and of excitement. I see there being a light at the end of the tunnel for our country.

I will say the vaccine hurt virtually not at all, I get a flu vaccine every year, and this hurt less than that which isn't much. And I feel great. I had a little mild tenderness in my arm for a couple of days. That's completely gone now, and I've had no other side effects.

That's similar to most of my healthcare colleagues and similar to the data that's been reported by Pfizer. But I say it's bittersweet, because I wish that everyone could have it. I have colleagues across the country who work in just as high risk situations as I do. In Maryland, in California, in Colorado, who can't get the vaccine despite being frontline health care providers, never mind all the folk who is are essential workers or high risk for other reasons, where we don't even have a date where we know when they're going to get their vaccine yet.

PHILLIP: Yeah. That's pretty unbelievable, I think, at this point.

But I do want to ask you, Dr. Jha, about some disturbing news yesterday out of the United Kingdom. The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced a lockdown in London but warned of new strain of the virus. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: There's no evidence that it causes more severe illness or high mortality, but it does appear to be passed on more easily. It may be up to 70 percent more transmissible than the old version of the disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So does that worry you, and if it is a different strain, will the vaccines that we are developing right now still work?

JHA: Yeah. Those are great questions.

Look, there is some evidence that this strain may be more infectious. There's no evidence that as Prime Minister Johnson said, there's no evidence it's more deadly, and there's no evidence that it's going to be resistant to the vaccine.

We are going to see things like this when we have as much outbreak as we do. So the key here right now is to try to keep the virus under control. Do the things we know work, masking, social distancing. I think the vaccine is going to end up being effective for all the strains, but we're going to have to look at this carefully, obviously.

PHILLIPS: Yeah. Definitely, something to keep an eye on.

Dr. Ranney, while we're waiting for there to be enough vaccine, of course, the pandemic is as we've been discussing spiraling out of control. And it's particularly bad in the state of California. They now have more infections each day than almost entire countries and Los Angeles, "The Los Angeles Times" is reporting that hospitals in L.A. County are discussing how to ration care.

California leaders have been taking this virus more seriously than most states, but here we are again.

What happened? RANNEY: That is a question that those of us in public health are

currently trying to figure out. There are some reports that in the areas of California where the virus is spreading out of control, that there were a fair number of Thanksgiving gatherings between families, between people who didn't live in the same household.

That may be part of the reason. It may be related to the density of the area. We don't yet know what happened. But it is so disturbing and my heart breaks for those folks in southern California, in San Francisco, and up and down the coast who are being so badly affected.

You know, across the United States, Abby, one out of 1,000 Americans have died of COVID and the rate of death particularly in L.A. County right now is just staggering. It makes me so sad to see them going through this. I hope that they do stay home and they do as Boris Johnson said, treat every other person they're in contact with as potentially being infected. That's the only way they're going to get this under control right now.

PHILLIP: A really important message, especially as we head into Christmas.

Dr. Jha, I do want to ask you about a big investigation in "The Washington Post" today about the Trump administration's mismanagement of the pandemic from the beginning, but it includes this quote from the former CDC chief of staff that says there isn't a single light switch moment where the government has screwed up and we're going down the wrong path. It was a series of multiple decisions that showed a lack of desire to listen to actual scientists and also a lack of leadership in general that put us on the progression of where we are at today.

[08:10:04]

What do you see as the biggest mistake that this administration made, especially as we're staring down this awful, awful winter?

JHA: Yeah. Abby, as that report said, there isn't a single tactical error you can point to. The big mistake the administration made is they never took the virus seriously. They never bothered listening to the scientists about what we need to do, and consistently underplayed it and undermined it in a way that leaves us with more than 300,000 Americans dead.

This is all wholly unnecessary. We could have done so much better. We do now have to look forward, and I think the new administration has signaled very clearly they're going to take this virus very differently.

PHILLIP: Well, we can only hope that in the next 30 days more damage is not done because every single day thousands of people dying.

Dr. Ranney, Dr. Jha, both of you, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

And coming up next, President Trump's election fraud delusion. News of a heated oval office meeting that included talk of martial law.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:15]

PHILLIP: One month from today, President Trump will be leaving the White House. But he's still not ready to accept it.

Just yesterday, "The New York Times," CNN and other outlets reported stunning details from a heated Oval Office meeting where the idea of declaring martial law to overturn the election results was discussed.

Disgraced former national security adviser Michael Flynn and conspiracy theorist, attorney Sidney Powell, were in the room, pushing those ideas to overturn the election. But their ideas were shot down by senior advisers, including White House counsel Pat Cipollone.

CNN reports, one of the sources described an escalating sense of concern among Trump's aides, even those who weathered previous controversies about what steps he may take next as his term comes to an end.

And joining us now with their reporting and their insights, Seung Min Kim of "The Washington Post", and Jonathan Martin of "The New York Times".

Jonathan, let's just call it what it is. Is the president trying to stage a coup from the White House? And how worried should his aides be that he's trying to cling to office at all costs?

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, he's obviously looking for any kind of recourse he can find to overturn the results of the election. And there is no recourse. He lost the election.

But he has not accepted that. You know, much of his staff clearly has. I think what he's doing now is looking for any kind of people, group around him that can sort of enable his conspiratorial thinking. He's found a handful of people you mentioned that are doing that, but they're running headlong into what I would call the reality based White House staff which obviously recognizes what happened last month in the election.

You got this clash in the Oval Office. I think we're going to see more of this for the next month, Abby. I think the president is going to continue to tweet that he won the election, muse about things in private.

I'm skeptical anything is going to come of it, because I just don't see what you can do. Perhaps some action on the House floor next month, but I'm just not sure beyond the sound and the fury what that's going to amount to.

PHILLIP: Yeah, it's a good point that according to CNN and "The New York Times" is reporting most of the officials in that room rejected these ridiculous ideas, but, you know, Seung Min, also at that meeting, Trump discussed naming his former lawyer, Sidney Powell, as a special counsel to investigate the election fraud. He talked about giving her a security clearance.

This is the lawyer who Trump said wasn't his lawyer after she claimed Venezuela was part of a bizarre conspiracy to steal the election.

What does this tell you that these are the people who the president is bringing in to the White House and has his ear in these last 30 days?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, it tells you one thing that there is a very, very small and shrinking circle of people around him willing to entertain any claim that there was voter fraud in the election and those people happen to be, you know, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell who let's not forget that the Trump campaign itself formally disavowed of that bizarre press conference you mentioned and floating conspiracy theories on air, on television interviews and what not.

It's still pretty unclear what the special counsel would entail. We typically look at them coming from the Justice Department, being appointed by the attorney general. "The New York Times" reported that president Trump envisioned a special counsel being within the White House. Obviously, a little lack of clarity there on how that would work.

But J-Martin, there was a good point. A lot of times during the meetings the president throws around and entertains a lot of frankly outlandish ideas and never goes through with them. But the escalation you're seeing internally from people like Pat Cipollone and Mark Meadows and others to tamp down ideas underscores how serious his fruitless push to overturn the elections is becoming at this point.

PHILLIP: Yeah. That's the part that I think is alarming a lot of people inside the White House. Jonathan, president Trump seems to be completely disengaged from elements of the actual presidency he seems desperate to hold onto. One of his advisers told "The Washington Post" that I think he's just done with COVID. He's completely absent from this worsening pandemic, from the vaccine rollout, from the rescue negotiations.

[08:20:00]

What is he even doing all day with his time, with the last 30 days he actually is the president?

MARTIN: I think he's taking in a lot of television, it's fair to say, as his want. I think he's calling and talking to advisers about the election results.

But it's so striking, though. We have a story today about the fact that never has there been a president who is so eager to hold onto an office that he seems to disinterested in. You've got the roll out, the long-awaited rollout of the vaccine that could end what's going on almost a yearlong of misery around the world. At the same time you have frantic negotiations to pass a COVID relief bill by the holidays for a country that desperately needs one.

And on both scores he's sort of missing in action. And it's striking to watch that this could be his best last chance to buff his legacy thinking of the vaccine especially. He's not going to any places where they're rolling out the vaccine. There's no photo-ops.

For a president who is -- on television, the fact that he's not going to that any kind of vaccine distribution place or getting the vaccine himself I think is really telling about what he's at right now.

PHILLIP: Yeah. He's -- the one thing he wants to take credit for, he's not there for that either.

MARTIN: To take credit, right?

PHILLIP: He's also doubling down, Jonathan, on what seems to be his inability to be tough on Russia on some of these issues. He's absolving Russia of responsibility for this massive cyber attack while his national security team and the secretary of state says it is Russia.

What is going on here? What is going to be the response on Capitol Hill to the president continuing to turn a blind eye to Russian aggression, especially in the cyber space that's having a real impact on the United States government right now?

MARTIN: Seung Min?

KIM: Well, I think there's a clear division that you're seeing coming from frankly a lot of people around him, and especially on the Russia issue. I mean, you know, there are five separate government agencies that are affected by this hack. And even the Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Marco Rubio was very clear that Russia was behind this.

But in his first words on these attacks yesterday, he completely -- the president completely disavowed any sort of potential responsibility behind the hacks. Something that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo himself said, and this is a pattern that we've seen throughout the course of the presidency, whether it's that infamous press conference in Helsinki or his other office, he's been unwilling to confront Russia, Vladimir Putin, when it goes against the other intelligence coming from his own government.

PHILLIP: And J-Mart, real quick before you go, what do you make of Mike Pompeo deciding to come out publicly and say this was Russia?

MARTIN: Yeah. I mean, it's striking to see that. His own secretary of state saying there was obviously Russia.

I think the facts are staring him in the face, and speaking of legacies, I think Pompeo is thinking of his own legacy, and there's not a big audience even the pro-Trump conservatives for kind of Russia denialism and excusing away their massive cyber attack of the country.

I think Pompeo and most national security folks recognize Russia as the threat they are, and he's articulating that. And I think there's just not much downside at this point given the time left and given the stakes involved and how big of a hack this was, Abby. PHILLIP: Right. Well, thanks, J-Mart and Seung Min, for joining us

this morning.

Up next, the latest coronavirus relief deal negotiations. Will Congress help the millions of Americans who are set to lose federal dollars and protections this holiday season? We'll talk to one of the leading members of the Progressive Caucus, Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:44]

PHILLIP: Congressional leaders say they're close to passing a desperately needed COVID-19 relief package. The deadline is midnight tonight to avoid a holiday shutdown and to help those suffering the most in this pandemic economy.

The biggest sticking point over the weekend was the lending powers of the Federal Reserve. And there is now a deal in principle over the Fed's role according to congressional aides.

But progressive Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley and many Americans, the most important part of this deal will be the new round of direct payments. Expect it to be to the amount of $600 each.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): I rise today on behalf of the people -- the people who are struggling and feel abandoned by their government during this crisis, a rise in solidarity with every parent who struggled to buy diapers and formula, every family behind on rent or crushed by the grief of an empty chair at the kitchen table.

We must send them survival checks immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:29:44]

PHILLIP: The congresswoman joins us now from D.C. where she's waiting to see the details of that relief plan we've been talking about and the massive $1.4 trillion spending package.

Congresswoman Pressley, thanks for joining us this morning.

Aides have said that they've reached a deal on that major sticking point over the Fed. How optimistic are you that there will actually be a proposal to vote on today?

PRESSLEY: Well, I'm hopeful, because the American people have received only 450 pennies a day for the last nine months. And they have been pushed into poverty, pushed into homelessness. So many are dealing with unprecedented food insecurity, hunger issues, unemployment, many on the precipice of eviction. And so you know, the fact that direct cash payments are even included is because of the Democrats. People need to understand that this GOP- led Senate has spent more time trying to undermine our free and fair elections.

And to deny the fact that their president was decisively defeated than focusing on advancing a comprehensive relief package to mitigate the hurt and to help American families.

They've had a poison pill in every relief package. You know, they didn't want to provide direct cash payments. We pushed them on that. We organized on that. And they said ok, we're going to cut unemployment in order to do that.

They have been fixated and obsessing on one number, rather than fixated on alleviating this hurt for the American people. All I want (AUDIO GAP) the Senate that does not have contempt (ph) for the American people which this senate does.

They have fought us on everything. They have fought us on addressing food insecurity. They have fought us on supporting our restaurants. They have fought us on investment in contact tracing. They have fought us on state and municipal aid. They have fought us on rental assistance.

They have been obstructionists at every turn, I cannot underscore enough. Georgia, I know we are asking a lot of you, but we need you to finish the job. Elect Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff so that we can stop this hurt.

PHILLIP: I do want to ask you about those payments. You know, Senator Bernie Sanders said on Friday that he would not allow the spending bill to pass if it doesn't include what he said, quote, "substantial direct payments for individuals and families".

Do you agree with that, and you know, we're talking act $600 right now. Do you think that that is a substantial direct payment to individuals and families?

PRESSLEY: We have to get urgent relief to our families. Again, at this point, these are not stimulus checks. They're stimulating nothing.

These are survival checks. This is about basic needs, about families needing to remain safely-housed, about purchasing diapers and formula, inhalers, insulin. And the truth of the matter is $600 will not even cover a month's rent.

I have not seen any text as of yet. So I will, you know, need to go through that and see if it's responsive to what my mayors have told me they need, what our community health centers have told me they need. What our families say they need. What our small businesses and restaurants say that they need.

And so, you know, I'm waiting for the text so that I can do that.

PHILLIP: The whole reason we're talking about this is because of the coronavirus pandemic, and today a second vaccine has been approved and it's on its way to hospitals today.

According to the CDC, black Americans are almost three times as likely to die from the coronavirus as white people. And yet, this poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that only 20 percent of blacks want to get the vaccine as soon as possible versus 40 percent of whites.

You were vaccinated yesterday. You tweeted about it. What do you say to the majority of black people that say they're not rushing to do what you did just yesterday?

PRESSLEY: Yes, I did have the vaccine administered yesterday in order to maintain the continuity of government, but also because, you know, I live with like millions of Americans, two preexisting conditions, and doing my part both to keep myself safe so that I can continue to do my job to fight for my district and the American people, keeping my family safe but also stopping the spread of this virus which has raged out of control which has everything to do with the willful criminality of Donald Trump and I would add even the GOP-led Senate because they have dragged their feet on making the investments necessary to meet the scale and scope of this hurt, and to invest in contact tracing and things like that.

So I do want to acknowledge that I had to overcome, you know, some of those distrust issues myself. The medical community exacting ostensibly medical apartheid on black Americans, on indigenous people, (INAUDIBLE) on our most marginalized communities.

[08:34:53]

PRESSLEY: They have violated the trust, and that's very real. And so I wanted to set an example. I trust Dr. Kenzie (ph). I consulted with my husband and my health care provider which is what I encourage others to do when making their own very personal decision.

But, you know, at the end of the day, I think this is what is in the best interest of our public health. I trust the Dr. Kenzie, I trust the vaccine and that's why I had it administered. And I want to say thank you to all the scientists and all the researchers.

And I'm going to continue to fight for our most vulnerable. Communities who have been disproportionally impacted by the virus, for our health care workers, for our essential workers, for incarcerated men and women to be prioritized in the distribution of the vaccine.

PHILLIP: That's an important message. You know, as we've been discussing this, you know, Congress is scrambling, as we've been talking about, to get this deal together. And the pandemic is raging.

But President Trump has been in the Oval Office and he's been talking about overturning a legitimate election. You know, there are still 30 days left of this administration. Are you concerned about what could happen in that time?

PRESSLEY: Of course, it's concerning. I'm just so ready for us to turn the page on this dark chapter in our history. And it's very ironic, you know, coming from my colleagues across the aisle, who characterize themselves as being patriots to challenge free and fair elections, to try to delegitimize those elections -- that outcome, to obstruct progress in getting relief to the American people, it's treasonous.

There's nothing patriotic about it. You know, peaceful transfer of power is -- are the pillars of our institution, of our democratic institutions.

This is unprecedented. We've always had a peaceful transfer of power. And so it is treasonous, it's unpatriotic and again, they've invested more time in how to undermine free and fair elections and how to challenge the fact that their president was decisively defeated, than focusing on the American people and how to get real relief to them.

PHILLIP: Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, thank you for joining us this morning. We hope that over where you are on the other side of Pennsylvania Avenue some progress can be made for the American people today.

PRESSLEY: Thank you, Abby. Good to see you in the chair.

PHILLIP: Thanks for being here.

And up next, millions of American families are on the financial brink. Will whatever relief package comes out of congress be enough to make a difference?

[08:37:37]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: After weeks of negotiation and multiple missed deadlines, Congress is finally poised to enact a new economic relief bill. We expect that it will include direct payments to most Americans, an extension of unemployment benefits, an extension of a moratorium on evictions, and a new round of aid to small businesses. And extra money for schools and vaccine distribution.

Millions of Americans are in desperate need of relief. And you can see on this chart the jobless claims are back on the rise. Far too many say they don't have enough to eat and they're worried about losing their homes.

The chairman of the Federal Reserve says things will get better as the pandemic recedes, but we need a bridge to get there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: The issue is more the next four or five months, getting to the next four or five or six months, that's key.

And, you know, clearly there's going to be need for help there. And, you know, my sense and hope is that we'll be getting that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: And joining us now with their expertise and insights: Austan Goolsbee who served as the White House the chief economist in the Obama administration and Kevin Hassett who had the same job in the Trump White House.

So Austan, are you as hopeful as the Fed chairman that Congress will pass a rescue package that is big enough to get the economy to the other side of the crisis?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, CHIEF ECONOMIST, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Probably not. I couldn't tell from the fed chair statement, is he really hopeful and expecting that they're going to pass something big enough?

They've got to do something. I mean, we violated the first rule of virus economics as I always say. That the number one way to fix the economy in the middle of a virus is to slow the spread of the virus. We got the virus raging out of control so we're in high danger of going into a double dip recession.

And I wish they had done what they're about to do now, it sounds like, weeks if not months ago. And the longer we wait, the greater the chance that we go into another recession.

PHILLIP: Yes, that seems pretty clear at this point.

But you know, Kevin, it's been interesting to see the negotiators stuck on this final issue, which wasn't even about the economic provisions, you know, the checks or money. It was about reining in the power of the Fed.

Do you agree with Republicans like Senator Pat Toomey who want to limit the Fed's power in -- power to lend in this crisis, a power that they used just a few months ago over the summer to help us get through that first wave?

KEVIN HASSETT, CHIEF ECONOMIST, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: Yes. I agree with you that that whole episode was really puzzling to me because they're arguing over a program that they had previously put $450 billion into and they've used almost none of it.

And so there is this program sitting over on the side that's like the 50th most important thing. And somehow that's going to hold up the deal? So it felt like last-minute posturing to me.

And I think to go back to your first question to Austan, I've been doing a lot of modelling. And Austan's exactly right. Because the virus cases are out of control, and they're really out of control worldwide. We've got this new strain in the U.K. that looks like it's 70 percent more contagious.

You know, I expect the global economy is going to really shut down very much like we did last spring. And we need a big stimulus package to get us through it because when you shut the economy down, then you're looking at minus 10, minus 20 percent GDP growth, the kind of stuff that we haven't seen since the Second World War. If you run the numbers for this $900 billion or so that is going to be agreed to today, what it does is it makes the first quarter about positive, just a little bit bigger than zero rather than a huge negative. Because almost all that money is going out in the first quarter.

And so I think that what they've done is they bought themselves some time for President-Elect Biden and his team to come in and negotiate another deal in March, because as, you know, Fed Chair Jay Powell said, because the vaccines are kind of dribbling in maybe at about 50 million a month, it's going to be really late in the spring before we can really go back to being wide open.

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean well, let's talk about those direct payments for a second, Austan.

[08:44:53]

PHILLIP: You know, I want to pull up this chart for our viewers to show the number of Americans living in poverty.

You can see that if you look at the summer months, the rate fell in the spring and summer and that suggests that the unemployment benefits, the $1,200 stimulus checks in the first Cares Act, they actually worked.

So when this compromised bill is talking about $600 payments, does it need to be more?

GOOLSBEE: Well, I mean you can't live on $600. Everybody knows that. And it would be better if it were more. It's not going to be more. So we're going to have to make do with this.

And I think it's -- I think that one of the problems here is we're coming to the end of the administration. And a lot of times economic crisis spiral out of control in the transition. That happened in the Depression. That happened in the financial crisis. Let's hope it doesn't happen now.

But what happens is the president doesn't want to be there. You know? And you see the president is not actively engaged in the negotiation. He made an announcement that he wanted the payments to be larger on Twitter. And then the Republicans and the Senate got to him or somebody got to him and changed his mind about that.

I think when the president is not actively involved, it makes it a kind of a battle between Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. They have bad blood already. They don't trust each other. I think that's partly why this thing is slowed down the way it is that the president is not really involved.

PHILLIP: Well, what about those $2,000 checks that President Trump reportedly wanted, Kevin? I mean do you think that that would have been a better idea? At the same time, you're hearing Republicans saying that they want much smaller checks because they're concerned about deficits. They're concerned about debt. Look at this chart. The debt is up about $7 trillion since President Trump took office. So you know, I don't blame people for worrying. Why are they concerned about this now in the middle of a crisis?

HASSETT: Well, I think the president's $2,000 number is probably a number that Austan would accept right away. And my guess is that the next round for stimulus will do something like another $1,200 check and you'll be right around $2,000, you know, by March.

The thing I would have grossed up in this bill is the unemployment insurance benefit, the $300 a week. You know, the fact there's a burgeoning economic literature (ph) looking at the last round of stimulus. One of the things we saw that the gross up of $600 of unemployment insurance benefits, like almost all of that went into consumption right away.

And so folks who were unemployed really, really needed that money. And if they're spending like 85 cents on the dollar right away, then they're the ones who most desperately need the money.

And so to cut the checks to them, that's the thing that I would have changed if I had a chance in this bill. Because I think the evidence is that the last round was enormously successful at helping people as you say, avoid poverty and hunger. And to cut that in half, it just doesn't feel like the right call to me.

PHILLIP: Right. Real quick before we go, Kevin, we've been talking about the medical, the economic crisis. You were a top adviser to this president. There's been a lot reporting this weekend about this Oval Office meeting in which the topic de jure was martial law and overturning the election.

What do you make of that? What would you have done if you were in the administration given what we're seeing here this weekend?

HASSETT: You know, I didn't participate in that meeting, and I certainly know a lot of the principals there, but I just can't imagine anyone would take such a thing seriously, and if I were ever asked about it, then I would say don't be ridiculous.

But, you know --

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: I mean it's clearly being -- it's clearly taken seriously. Multi -- a long meeting in the Oval Office in which the president was asking about these things. So it's pretty disturbing stuff.

Kevin Hassett, Austan Goolsbee -- both of you thank you so much for joining us this morning.

HASSETT: Thank you.

GOOLSBEE: Thank you.

PHILLIP: Up next, President-Elect Biden signals that climate policy will be a priority in his White House.

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PHILLIP: President-Elect Joe Biden's latest cabinet pick suggests climate policy will be a priority for his administration. On Saturday Biden named former Michigan Governor Jennifer Grandholm to lead the Energy Department, New Mexico Congresswoman Deb Haaland as the Interior secretary, Michael Regan to head the Environmental protection agency and former EPA administrator Gina McCarthy as domestic climate adviser which is a new position for his administration.

The President-Elect also noted the historic nature of the cabinet picks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: After today, our cabinet won't just be one or two precedent-breaking appointments but 12 including today's long overdue appointment of the first Native American cabinet secretary.

The cabinet that looks like America, that taps into the best of America, that opens doors and includes the full range of talents we have in this nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining me now, to share her latest reporting is Seung Min Kim of "The Washington Post".

Seung Min, given all the things that President-Elect Biden will have on his plate -- the economy, the virus -- how central is climate change expected to be in a Biden administration?

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": It's really expected to be front and center if you look at the terms of the appointments that he has rolled out plus the agenda that we see little bits and little hints of during the transition.

Of course, he laid out an extensive environment team really focused on the issue of climate change in Wilmington yesterday.

Remember, one of the first appointments that he rolled out was creating the special envoy on climate to look more at international climate issues and he tapped former secretary of state John Kerry for that role. And also we saw with as you noted Gina McCarthy in a new kind of domestic climate policy.

And President-Elect Biden has said these people, you know, John Kerry, Gina McCarthy, they will have critical seats at the table in any sort of negotiations to really focus on that issue of climate.

We also know that one of his first projects (ph), one of his first executive orders that he would do is to get back into that Paris climate deal. So this is certainly going to be a major focus of the Biden administration and, you know, starting from day one, even as all of these other issues are going on with the pandemic, the economy and what not.

PHILLIP: Yes. and Biden also promised that he'll have a government that looks like America. So far he has named the first openly gay American to his cabinet, Native American to his cabinet post, the first Latino to head the Department of Homeland Security and then the first woman to lead the Treasury Department. He has tapped at least six black officials, the most ever. And so far, we have two-thirds of his cabinet announced.

[08:54:58]

PHILLIP: What are you hearing from Capitol Hill about whether or not, you know, those announcements are meeting expectations that he is fulfilling his promise to make his cabinet as diverse as this country?

KIM: Well, on the diversity front, you're certainly hearing a lot of excitement from Democrats for President-Elect Biden in rolling out such a diverse constituency -- you know, women, minorities, and what not. But one constituency that has really ramped up their pressure in the -- in recent days on the administration is the Asian American community -- the AAPI community.

We do have two AAPI people who have been tapped for Biden's cabinet so far but they are not in a secretary level position, they are not heading a department. They are Katherine Tai for United States Trade Representative and Neera Tanden to lead the Office of Management and Budget.

And Asian American lawmakers are warning the incoming Biden administration that this could be the first time in 20 years that there could be no secretary level AAPI official in a cabinet and they are certainly worried about a lack of representation on Biden's team.

There was a call with Asian American lawmakers and Vice President- Elect Kamala Harris on Thursday where they made that point explicitly clear. So they are hoping to get representation in one of the final remaining positions that have yet to be made public by the Biden team such as the Department of Labor and Labor Secretary.

PHILLIP: And quickly, Seung Min, you know, progressives have been pushing for more representation in the Congress, too. With Deb Haaland going to the Interior Department, does that address their concerns?

KIM: It certainly addresses one of their concerns because we saw how the pressure campaign and this public campaign in favor of Congresswoman Haaland really was quite successful. You had senior Democratic officials who had kind of been very concerned about losing numbers of the House majority kind of, you know, scaling back the concerns saying we are completely on board for Deb Haaland.

But you know, you have -- you know, personnel is one thing, policy is another and progressives are going to be really watching the, you know, the first hundred days. What kind of agenda that this cabinet lays out, what kind of agenda that Biden, you know, proposes and pushes, especially early on in his presidency if they are really going to be happy.

PHILLIPS: Yes. I suspect this is not the last we'll be hearing about that.

Thank you Seung Min for joining us this morning.

And that's it for INSIDE POLITICS.

Coming up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER".

His guests include Operation Warp Speed chief Moncef Slaoui, Transportation secretary nominee Pete Buttigieg, Senator Mitt Romney, and ex-cyber security czar Christopher Krebs.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us.

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