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Biden Urges Swift Passage Of $1.9 Trillion COVID Relief Bill; GOP Senators Request Meeting With Biden On COVID Relief; Trump Loses His Legal Team Days Before Impeachment Trial; GOP Leaders Struggle To Unite Party Factions; One-On-One With Sen. Jon Tester (D-MT); CDC: Schools Can Reopen With Safety Precautions In Place. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired January 31, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:27]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice-over): No time to waste. President Biden says there will be a COVID relief bill, with or without Republican votes.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The way to avoid a deeper, deeper, deeper recession is to spend money now.

PHILLIP: We'll get reaction from Montana Democratic Senator Jon Tester.

Plus, a party split and fighting over its future.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Our battle is no longer just Republican versus Democrat. Both political parties have teamed up to screw our fellow Americans.

PHILLIP: And the CDC says more schools can safely reopen, but for some teachers, it's not that simple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need to worry about not just what my students are facing, but also what my family and myself are facing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

PHILLIP (on camera): Welcome to "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY". I'm Abby Phillip.

To our viewers in the United States and around the world, thank you for spending part of your weekend with us.

Overnight, we learned that former President Donald Trump's entire impeachment legal team is gone. With just days before the start of the Senate trial, this is the reason, President Trump's insistence that his lawyers focus on his false claims that the election was stolen from him. A person familiar with the departures tells CNN that Trump wanted the

attorneys to argue that there was mass election fraud rather than focus on the legality of convicting a former president after he's left office. More on that in a bit.

But before senators can get to the impeachment trial, they are grappling with the current president's top priority, quickly passing a $1.9 trillion economic relief plan to help Americans who are struggling with this deadly coronavirus pandemic and a worsening economy.

President Biden's plan includes direct stimulus checks for most Americans, more aid for the unemployed and those facing eviction, money to speed up the vaccine rollout and to reopen schools and much more. Democrats say that their preference is a bipartisan deal, but increasingly leaders on Capitol Hill and Biden himself are talking about going it alone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I support passing COVID relief with support from Republicans if we can get it, but the COVID relief has to pass. There's no if's, ands, or buts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: A bipartisan group of 16 senators is still talking about how to craft a bill that could win wide support and moderate GOP lawmakers are practically begging Biden not to move quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): It would be wise for the new administration to work to try to get a bipartisan proposal that can be moved through. We're giving an opportunity to come together on important and timely legislation. So why wouldn't you do that rather than try to just move it through with reconciliation and have it be a wholly partisan product.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And just in the past few minutes, a group of ten Republican senators, including Senator Murkowski, sent a letter to President Biden with what they say is a counterproposal. They are asking for a meeting with the president to discuss it further.

And joining us now with their reporting and their insights, Laura Barron-Lopez of "Politico", Michael Shear of "The New York Times", and CNN's own Manu Raju.

Manu, I want to start with you on this brand-new letter that we are getting from ten Republican senators, not a whole lot of specifics yet about their counterproposal, but what do you make this have development? Is it a serious proposal, and is it a sign that there might be actual progress because Republicans are putting something on the table? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's also a

sign, Abby, that is correct, they're warning the White House not to move forward in the direction that they're very clearly moving forward on, which is a $1.9 trillion package that the Democratic leadership in the House and the Senate are behind in which the rank and file members in the House and Senate are behind and what those moderate Republicans as well as some of the swing voters on the Republican side, they are not behind.

They have been very clear in the last several days that they want the Biden administration to back off, to start to discuss a much smaller package, a more targeted package, concerned about the price tag, concerned that that money in their view is not necessity moment because $900 billion in COVID relief that was passed late last year.

But the Democratic -- the Democrats in Washington, the leadership, they are skeptical about listening to the Susan Collins of the world at this point.

[08:05:08]

They remember very clearly what happened the last time there was all Democratic control in Washington, 2009, during the Obamacare debate, they negotiated for months and months and months with Republicans over that piece of legislation. Ultimately, it passed on a party line vote, Republicans were all opposed. They are concerned they lost the messaging on that.

This time, they're very clear, if the Republicans don't move to where the Democrats want them, $1.9 trillion, they're going to move on their own and they're already taking steps to do that in February. So, this is going to be the key month for them to get this through, the question is what does Biden do now that these Republican senators are saying let's at least meet, let's slow things down, how does he message that because at the moment they are not listening to the Republicans, Abby.

PHILLIP: Yeah, and there is a sense that there aren't months to spend negotiating with Republicans if they aren't going to come along. And even four years ago, Republicans moved forward with reconciliation for their tax cuts without trying to get Democratic support.

But, you know, Michael, there is still a sense among the Biden team that they say they want a bipartisan bill. What are you learning about whether they will actually be willing to make concessions in order to win over ten Republicans that they need?

MICHAEL SHEAR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Abby. Thanks again for having me on and congratulations on the show.

You know, look, I think there are two imperatives, two promises that Biden made to the American people that are colliding in this -- in this situation, one is his promise for unity and bipartisanship and healing the country, and the other is his promise to get something done and get something done quickly to confront the pandemic and the economic struggles. I think the Biden people at least in the conversations that I have had

with folks around the president have clearly decided that the latter is the more important imperative at the moment. That they need to demonstrate to the American people that they can get something done and that not only for messaging reasons, but for the practical reasons that if they don't act now, they do believe that the situation will only get worse, both in terms of the health situation on the ground, but also in terms of the economic hole that has been dug that they're trying to figure their way out of.

PHILLIP: Laura, you know, we were just discussing this, you know -- the moving toward reconciliation which would require no Republican votes. Republicans did that four years ago and now they're talking about unity. Is there some hypocrisy there that all of a sudden they think that it's a requirement to move forward with bipartisan support when it was a top legislative priority for them four years ago they didn't do that.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Well, as you and Manu laid out, Abby, Democrats are remembering exactly what happened in years past, so there that was four years ago or more than four years ago in 2009, they know what it was like when they either didn't message as strongly in 2009 or when Republicans steamrolled them in 2017 and decided to go through reconciliation.

So this time around, you know, you have a lot of Obama alums in the Biden White House and they don't want to lose this battle in terms of communicating to the American people that they think that fast action is needed as opposed to going through negotiations, and a lot of Democrats that I have spoken to feel as though if they were to engage in longer negotiations that they wouldn't be able to move as quickly as they would like to.

And then, yes, it would become a potentially smaller bill and a lot of Democrats as Manu said, the rank and file don't want a smaller bill. They like the $1.9 trillion bill that Biden has proposed and they want to move forward with that.

One of the arguments also that the White House as well as I've heard from Senate Democrats that they're making is that the American public doesn't care what pathway or route you take to actually get this passed, that they aren't going to really pay attention to whether or not a bunch of Republicans voted or two Republicans voted for the bill or just Democrats voted to get it passed. And so, that's also what's been pushing them to act fasting.

PHILLIP: Yeah, this idea that the process doesn't break through to the American public I think is an important one. Look, speaking of process, Michael, President Biden has been busy these last few days signing executive orders, 42 of them at least, focused on COVID, climate change, abortion, immigration, so much more, but they've gotten some criticism about that from "The New York Times" editorial board and notably White House officials pushed back hard on t they were very unhappy about this.

Why so defensive? SHEAR: Well, look, I mean, I think the history of the use of executive

orders has been -- sort of plagued both presidents from both parties. The -- of course, President Obama used executive orders to deal with immigration issues and was blocked in part in the courts.

[08:10:07]

And we all saw how often President Trump used executive orders, only to, you know, find them stymied as well.

And so I think, you know, what the Biden people are trying to do is to have it both ways. They're trying to show the American people that they're willing to act and act quickly and that they're not going to be bogged down in the kind of legislative negotiations and difficulties that we just got finished talking about, and that they're using the power of the office.

And -- but the problem is by doing so they really are pushing the boundaries of the ways in which, you know, policy is supposed to be made and especially permanent policy. I think one of the arguments that has been made against these executive orders is, look, these are just as temporary as the ones that the Trump administration pursued.

And if at the end of the day, the -- President Biden, you know, pushes forward most of his agenda through executive orders, then that leaves open the possibility that the next president if it's a Republican, for example, could come and reverse much of it.

So it's not really a kind of effective way of governing.

PHILLIP: Yeah. You know, Manu, back in Washington the environment on Capitol Hill is pretty toxic right now. Republicans want outreach from the Biden administration but let's keep in mind who some of these Republicans are. You know, Marjorie Taylor Greene who has been in the news this whole weekend is a conspiracy theorist.

Here are some of the comments she's made in the past in a video she posted in 2018.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, YOUTUBE/2018)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): So-called plane that crashed into the Pentagon. It's odd there's never any evidence shown for a plane in the Pentagon.

MS-13 was basically like they were kind of the henchmen of the Obama administration. They did a lot of the dirty work. Seth Rich, Seth Rich was murdered by two MS-13 gang members.

Kennedy getting killed in the plane crash because isn't it interesting that he had announced he was going to run for Senate just before he died in a mysterious plane crash. That's another one of those Clinton murders, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: That's just the tip of the iceberg. And the response from a vast majority of Republicans has been crickets. She actually tweeted yesterday that she spoke to President Trump on the phone and he offered support.

And House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is supposed to meet with Greene this week.

Are we going to see any kind of reprimand who are has McCarthy already signaled that this is not going to be much more than a slap on the wrist?

RAJU: It's hard to see what exactly he's going to do because remember how the Republicans dealt with Steve King, the former Iowa Republican, congressman, someone who had said racist things for years and ultimately was stripped after many years from his committee post in the last Congress because of his comments suggesting -- saying white supremacy, what's the big idea about saying that. That ultimately led him to get stripped from those committee assignments. That occurred because he said that while he was a member of Congress.

I think what you might see some of these Republicans say is that the things that you just played, those bonkers conspiracy theories that she's been saying, the things that she posted on social media suggesting that the Parkland massacre of 2018 was somehow a staged event, those occurred before she was a member of Congress and I think you're going to hear some Republicans make that claim that that is, you know -- since she did it before, they have no jurisdiction in dealing with this going forward.

We have not heard that from McCarthy yet. We are expecting him to meet with her sometime early this week, but I would be surprised if they take any punitive actions. In the meantime, the Democrats are pushing to get her expelled from Congress all together and Nancy Pelosi may have to make a decision about how she's going to deal with it because the Democrats are trying to push this in a way that could force a vote on the floor by making this a so-called privilege resolution.

She would have to make a decision essentially whether to kill that or not. That needs two thirds majority to expel her from Congress so that's unlikely to happen as well. But the pressure is going to build because she says many inflammatory things and she is not going to stop even though she is a member of Congress now.

PHILLIP: In fact, I mean, she said those things in the past, but she said just this weekend she is not going to apologize. So that seems to be pretty clear where she stands on many of these issues today.

Manu, Laura, Michael, you will be back with us shortly.

And up next, former President Trump loses his legal team only days before his impeachment trial in the Senate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:31] PHILLIP: With just days to go until his impeachment trial in the U.S. Senate, former President Donald Trump has no legal defense. A person familiar with the departures tells CNN Trump wanted his attorneys to argue that there was mass fraud and that the election was stolen from him, rather than focus on the legality of convicting an ex-president after he leaves office.

We are back with our correspondents and reporters.

So, Michael, who is left to represent the president? Your colleague Maggie Haberman reported this morning that he kind of mulled representing himself so he doesn't have to pay these lawyers, but I don't think that's a particularly good idea, right?

SHEAR: No, and I think what Maggie said in the story is it doesn't look like he's seriously contemplating that.

I mean, look, the problem for the president is that he doesn't really want a lawyer. He wants a lawyer -- somebody to play a lawyer on TV. He wants somebody to go on TV and make these bogus claims for him and that's not frankly what he needs for his defense.

And, look, these Republican senators -- it's almost certain that the Democrats won't get the needed vote, Republican votes to actually convict him, but at least some of these Republican senators are at least looking for an argument to be made, a legal argument to be made so that they can -- so that they can vote to acquit him, and the kind of -- I mean, you saw that, I think, 45 senators, almost all of the Republican senators voted the other day to say that they thought that it was unconstitutional to hold a trial after the president has left office.

[08:20:09]

And so, they're looking for somebody to make that case. The president has to file, I think, a legal brief on Tuesday, the first legal briefs. He doesn't have a lawyer to write that up for him as far as we know.

And so, it's, I think, going to be a pretty rocky couple of weeks for the former president, unless he can find one of the million or so lawyers in the United States to represent him.

PHILLIP: Old habits die hard, right?

SHEAR: Right.

PHILLIP: Laura, there have been some Democrats like Virginia's Tim Kaine pushing for a censure resolution instead of an impeachment. Noting that there doesn't seem to be support for a conviction.

But if Trump is not going to get -- to let go of the election lie, does this make it harder for them to go that route since he seems to basically be unrepentant about the whole thing that led to the January 6th riot? BARRON-LOPEZ: Yeah, although Senator Kaine has tried to flip censure

which I think was more of a tactic to try to get more Republicans to vote for some kind of reprimand against the president, a lot of Democrats want to see this trial all the way through and they want to see Trump convicted, if possible, although, again, as Michael noted, they aren't really holding their breath thinking that they are going to reach the necessary Republican votes to get there for the trial. But Democrats have made clear that they want to make this emotionally salient case in the Senate trial.

They are going to use added video that they've discovered and that they've gathered since the January 6th insurrection, there's a possibility that they may bring witnesses such as capitol police officers or others who were defending the capitol that day, although it still is unclear whether or not or how many witnesses Democrats will be able to bring forward since a lot of the senators have been saying that they want to move this trial forward quickly.

So if it only lasts a week then there isn't going to be much time for witnesses. But they really want to push Republicans to remember what happened on January 6th, the danger that all of the lawmakers were in, the danger that was posed to officers themselves and the deaths that resulted from that insurrection.

PHILLIP: And, Manu, quickly, here, do you think that this changes the dynamic? Will any more Republicans consider voting to convict?

RAJU: Well, Michael is exactly right because they had been looking for someone to make an argument on the floor and say that this is not constitutional and make the case why they want to hear that this should be dismissed and if nobody is going to make that case, it's going to be a bit harder. I talked to Republican senators up and down the last couple of weeks.

There is no appetite behind a handful, beyond those five really to convict because they believe it would create a, quote, dangerous precedent in the words of someone like a Senator John Cornyn. That's widely shared within the Republican conference. So I doubt we will get to 17 senators despite all the former president's problems fielding a team.

PHILLIP: Just more Trump chaos, even in the after-presidency life.

Manu, Michael, Laura, thank you all for joining us this morning.

And up next, one of the few Democratic senators living in red state America on the coronavirus relief bill, the impeachment trial and Trump's legal team disappearing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:09]

PHILLIP: Republicans are struggling to forge their post-Trump identity, especially as the former president looks to maintain his grip on the party. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is facing growing backlash

against freshman conspiracy-touting Republican lawmaker, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and calls from his own caucus to oust his number three representative, Liz Cheney, after her vote to impeach Trump.

Now, with all of this happening McCarthy still traveled to Florida to visit former president Donald Trump's south Florida mansion last week to smooth over their relationship and to ask for Trump's commitment to help the GOP win back the House next year. Looking the other way as Trump props up Greene and leads the charge to punish Cheney.

Joining me now, former Republican Congresswoman Barbara Comstock, and Scott Jennings, who has worked for several prominent Republicans, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

So, Scott, why is the former House minority leader paying a call to a twice impeached, one-term former president? Does that make political sense to you?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, generally speaking, I think the Republican Party has empirically reached the limits of Trumpism. I mean, he lost the national popular vote twice, we didn't do well in the 2018 midterms, we don't control anything now and then, of course, we lost the Georgia runoffs as well because of his sabotage.

So, you know, Trump can take to you a certain level but it's not quite enough to be a national majority party. Now, on the flip side of that if you're Kevin McCarthy, a lot of his members do exist in districts where Donald Trump is quite popular.

So, as a geographical or jurisdictional matter, the president is going to retain some popularity and behind all of it, of course, is that it is flatly true that Donald Trump has been one of the biggest drivers of small dollar fundraising for the Republican Party and a lot of it's members.

So, there are a lot of complex things going on here, but at the end of the day, I think most of Kevin McCarthy's members care more about Donald Trump thinks than what Kevin McCarthy thinks and he confirmed that by going to meet with him.

PHILLIP: Tough but true.

Barbara, Congressman Matt Gaetz traveled to Wyoming on Thursday to rally Republicans against Liz Cheney after her vote to impeach Trump. Take a listen to what he was saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAETZ: There's basically two things that Liz Cheney has done in the United States Congress, frustrate the agenda of President Trump and sell out to the forever war machine.

You see Washington, D.C. mythologizes the establishment power brokers like Liz Cheney for climbing in a deeply corrupt game, but there are more of us than there are of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: She is getting support from establishment figures like George W. Bush this weekend, but in today's Republican Party, I mean, will that kind of endorsement help her keep her job.

And, you know, is Matt Gaetz right, are there more of them than there are of her?

BARBARA COMSTOCK (R-VA), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSWOMAN: I don't think so. In fact, I'm on a board for Republican women.

[08:29:46]

We're having a fundraiser for Liz Cheney this week and we are getting lots of good support. And I would invite anybody to join us this week.

And this is the -- we have a broad tent party, but there's no room for people like Marjorie Greene, a conspiracy theorist who should be taken off of her committees, and really I think taken out of the party, voted out of the party, not allowed to be part of the caucus.

Republicans in the state of Virginia did that with a Virginia state senator who had similar type of outrageous comments and dangerous things.

So I think it would be absurd for Republicans to be attacking Liz Cheney who is on a vote of conscience stood up courageously as opposed to ignoring what is really vile behavior by both the president as well as people like Marjorie Greene.

And Matt Gaetz has long been a divider, just like the president. If Republicans want to get back in the majority, you're not going to do it with a divider in chief who first divided the country, never had a majority one day while he was in office, and is now trying to divide our party.

You need to look to the leaders who outran Trump. People like -- women like Korean-American women in California, young Kim and Michelle Steel who ran far ahead of Trump. David Valadao again, California, ran ahead of Trump. Chris Sununu in New Hampshire 20 points ahead of Trump. Same thing with Ben Sasse far exceeding Trump.

That's the future of our party. Not people like Matt Gaetz or Jim Jordan who promoted Marjorie Greene along with Mark Meadows. They need to answer for her.

But actually we can thank Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan because they are such poor defenders of the president they got him impeached twice. And they have also shown that they have no path on how to get to a majority. All they can do is win very red seats and put in cooks like Marjorie Greene who are going to harm the party.

If I were in office I would be running to the microphones to denounce her. And certainly, I think it's morally abhorrent that somebody like that is sitting in there with a Republican label.

PHILLIP: Well, to your point, Barbara -- Scott, you know, take a listen to this voter in Marjorie Taylor Greene's district. It seems to explain why this is going to be tough for Republicans not just to deal with her, but to deal with constituents like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYNDON SMITH, GEORGIA RESIDENT: My 23 years in Georgia and the years prior to that, she's the most serious candidate and I would follow her more than any other congressman or senator I have ever seen in office. The left is after her because she stands for conservative values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: What's the solution to that, Scott?

JENNINGS: Well, I mean, I actually don't think she should be expelled because I think voters should decide who represents them. But I think voters need all the information.

And I think the Republican Party, however, can decide who is allowed to carry its banner. They did this with King, of course, as you mentioned.

And so I think the party and Kevin McCarthy ought to strip her of her committees. I think they ought to say we're not associated with this person. She can be a congressperson but it would become immediately apparent to the people in Georgia that they've got the weakest and most useless congressperson up there because she is not allowed to be associated with one of the two major parties.

I mean, I hear -- I think the reaction of that voter, though, is a lot of Republicans look at who is attacking who and then they calibrate their views, you know, based on that. So he's not calibrating his views based on her crazy talk or her sandwich board, you know, worthy conspiracy theories. He's calibrating it based on the fact that well, the people I hate are attacking her, therefore, I must defend her.

And so she's not being judged on the merits there. She's being judged on, you know, an us versus them equation.

At the end of the day if the Republican Party wants to be the sandwich board caucus, we're going to be a minority party. I mean we haven't won the national popular vote in a presidential election unless your last name was Bush since 1984.

And so I don't personally want to be a minority party. I want to be a national majority governing party and to cast away all these suburban center right voters to die on the Marjorie Taylor Greene sandwich board caucus hill, that's not a good idea.

PHILLIP: Well, I think it might also start with Republican leaders telling their voters the truth to begin with and not allowing them --

COMSTOCK: Exactly. JENNINGS: Yes.

PHILLIP: -- to live in a world of lies.

Barbara Comstock, Scott Jennings -- always a pleasure to have you both here. Thank you for being with us this morning.

COMSTOCK: Thank you.

JENNINGS: Thanks, Abby.

PHILLIP: And up next, we will talk to Democratic Senator Jon Tester about President Biden's COVID relief bill.

[08:34:42]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: Congressional Democrats are preparing to move forward with a procedure this week that will allow them to pass the coronavirus relief legislation without any Republican votes. But with their very slim majority in the Senate they need to make sure that every single Democrat is on board and the new vice president is part of a full- court press to the senators in those red and purple states who might be on the fence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The president and I feel very strongly that these are the moments when we are facing a crisis of unbelievable proportion that the American people deserve their leaders to step up and stand up for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining us now the Democratic Senator from Montana, Jon Tester, who is with us on the phone. Senator Tester, thank you for being with us. I know we had a little technical issues this morning, but we're glad you to be here.

SEN. JON TESTER (D-MT) (via telephone): It's great to be with you, Abby. Thank you. Sorry about the lack of video.

PHILLIP: Not a problem at all.

Look, you've been I would say noncommittal except for saying that it needs to be a more targeted relief bill, but what would get you to a yes on COVID relief? What does more targeted actually mean for you?

Well, I intend to vote for the motion to proceed on Tuesday and then I think hopefully we can do this in a bipartisan way. We can look for ways to make the bill that the president put forward a better bill.

And you know, where I'm at, there are a lot of businesses that have been pounded, most of them in the hospitality area. So let's focus on that. Let's focus on the gyms of the world, gymnasiums of the world and those kind of places.

I think that there's -- some opportunity (ph) for some really good things. And then let's -- let's focus on the people who are actually been laid off to make sure that they have the kind of predictability in their lives to be able to pay their bills and stay in their homes.

Look, it's not that I'm opposed to anything in the bill. I just think that there's some things we can do that will make it even better.

PHILLIP: One of the things that are likely to be a sticking point is the $15 minimum wage proposal. You have been -- you've supported a modest increase in the minimum wage in the past. Do you think $15 an hour is too much? Does it belong in this bill?

[08:39:57]

TESTER: Well look, I think the minimum wage right now will certainly not keep somebody out of poverty. And so moving forward, I think we need to increase it. Whether it's $15 or not, I think this is an opportunity to have this debate in the Senate, the greatest deliberative body supposedly, and figure out, you know, what the right thing to do is here to make it work for our businesses, particularly our small businesses in a state like Montana.

So once again, Abby, I think that there's no doubt it needs to be raised. To what level I can't be certain. But the bottom line is let's have the discussion. Let's talk about how it's going to impact working families. How it's going to impact small businesses. And then get something that we can do in a bipartisan way.

PHILLIP: And Senator Tester, just quickly, I mean, the overall size of the bill, is that a big concern for you? $1.9 trillion, is that too large? And will reducing the overall size help get you to a yes on a final proposal?

TESTER: Well look, I think $1.9 trillion is a lot of money. But I think the economy is in trouble. Every economist that I've talked to certainly points out that things aren't getting better right now. And I think until we get this virus behind us this is the way it's going to be.

And so I don't think $1.9 trillion, even though it is a boatload of money, is too much money. I think now is not the time to starve the economy. After we get the economy going, then let's look at ways we can pay the debt down.

But for right now businesses need help. Working families need help. We need to get folks back to school. We need to get the vaccinations in people's arms.

Let's focus on those things and move it forward. And I think that's what this bill does.

PHILLIP: Just a few minutes ago a group of ten Republican senators sent a letter to President Biden saying that they want to offer a counterproposal. They asked for a White House meeting to discuss it. Have you spoken to your colleagues about this? And do you really think Republicans are serious about actually wanting a deal on COVID relief right now?

TESTER: Well, I hope they are because we are all in this economy together. I have not seen the proposal. I will treat it as a positive sign that folks want to work together to move the ball forward.

So, I mean, I will treat it as a positive and hopefully -- hopefully, it's got things in it that really does move the economy forward in a meaningful way.

PHILLIP: I do want to get to some other news that broke just over the weekend regarding the impeachment trial. Former President Trump has now lost his entire impeachment legal team with just days to go until the trial.

And sources are telling CNN that it's because he wants to focus on the baseless claims that -- that he won the election, that there was widespread voter fraud. He's obviously unrepentant about the situation and pushing the same lie that led to the insurrection in the first place.

What impact do you think this will have on the vote and what impact should it have on the vote?

TESTER: Well, I mean, this is a trial and the senate is the jury. And to be able to put forth a case on either side is really important for the jurors to take a look at and either acquit him or convict him.

And so I think it could have very serious impacts. I will tell you the president doesn't want to walk in and talk about what happened on January 6th. In fact, wants to perpetuate the lie that led to that insurrection. It says a lot to me, but I will reserve my final judgment until after the trial.

PHILLIP: You know, to that end, you know, Senator Josh Hawley said this week that it was a lie that he was trying to overturn the election. And you've said that he needs to be held accountable.

Do you have any sense that that might happen? Have you had any discussions about how that might -- that might actually be the case, that people like Hawley and Ted Cruz and others could be held accountable for their role?

TESTER: Well, I think they need to be. If we're going to have unity they need to be held accountable. I think the actions of people, especially if you are a United States senator, matter.

And so in the end there needs to be accountability or it will happen again and it will probably happen again by Cruz, Hawley and the other 11 that did it. Maybe not this specific thing, but something that will allow people who want to do bad things to our government to empower them.

So I just think they need to be held accountable. The fact is as I saw the pictures of Josh Hawley out on the mall, I heard what he said on the Senate floor. He was perpetuating a lie and quite frankly he needs to be held accountable for that.

PHILLIP: You were there on January 6th obviously. We watched what happened. And Speaker Pelosi says that she blames some members of Congress for what happened. She said the enemy is within the House. Do you agree with that assessment? And are fellow members of Congress actually putting other colleagues in danger?

[08:44:49]

TESTER: Well, I mean look, what happened on January 6 was a very sobering experience and something that hasn't happened for hundreds of years. And I do think that people need to be held accountable.

Whether they did this with this in mind, I doubt, but once again I think the Ethics Committee needs to do their job on this particular case and find out what transpired and act appropriately and hopefully the Senate will act appropriately, too.

I just don't think you can let the kind of actions that the 13 senators did leading up to the 6th of January go unanswered.

PHILLIP: Are you concerned though, about your own personal safety in Congress right now?

TESTER: I mean look, I mean, you're always concerned about that. And you're always -- you always have your eyes wide open, you know. So I mean, hopefully the Capitol police are taking the measures necessary to stop another insurrection that may occur. And I hope it doesn't, but may occur in the future.

PHILLIP: Well Senator Tester, thank you again for being with us this morning. And I wish you luck with this important work that you all have ahead of you next week and in the following weeks.

TESTER: Well, thank you, Abby. And congratulations on the new gig.

PHILLIP: Thank you.

And up next the question that every parent wants to know. is it safe for children to be back in the classroom? The chief of Chicago Public School System is here with us next.

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PHILLIP: Reopening America's public schools is one of President Biden's key goals for his first 100 days in office. And the CDC says that in-person learning is safe as long as schools take precautions. Like requiring masks, social distancing, keeping students in the same classroom all day and teaching hygiene techniques and a whole lot more.

But what a lot of schoolteachers say they don't trust administrators to put every precaution in place and they still have concerns about their own safety. This fight is playing out vividly in Chicago where officials want to reopen schools for in-person learning for students in kindergarten through eighth grade tomorrow. The teachers union, though, is threatening to strike.

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LORI TORRES, CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS TEACHER: I need to worry about not just what my students are facing, but also what my family and myself are facing. I think it's ok that in a time like this that I take a step back and consider me at this point. I have some health concerns that I worry about.

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PHILLIP: And joining me now from Chicago is the CEO of the Chicago Public School System Dr. Janice Jackson.

Dr. Jackson, thank you so much for joining us this morning on I'm sure a very busy morning after a very busy weekend of negotiations.

[08:49:50]

PHILLIP: I do want to get to the details of some of the parts of the plan that you all have put into place and show everyone the changes that the district has made, including HEPA filters in classrooms, smaller class sizes, expanding testing, mask mandates, more custodians in schools and other changes to the tune of $100 million.

But the unions in Chicago are demanding some big things namely vaccinations for teachers and metrics for closing schools if the positivity rate gets too high.

From your perspective why should schools reopen without those big changes particularly those two about vaccinations and the positivity rate?

DR. JANICE JACKSON, CEO, CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Yes. Well first, thank you for having me and outlining many of the tenets of our plan.

We believe our reopening plan goes above and beyond both state as well federal mandates for safely reopening schools. But to your point, there are still some sticking points that we're trying to negotiate with our partners here in the Chicago Teachers Union mainly around vaccinations and accommodations, specifically around vaccinations.

I would just point back to the study that you referenced in your opening remarks. The CDC just released a study show casing the fact that schools can safely reopen if the proper mitigation strategies are implemented.

We have had the opportunity to open schools here in Chicago for the past three weeks and we were able to do so successfully and safely. We think now is the time to see a return to in-person instruction for those families that wish to have that option. But we are also keeping the district open for remote for families who would like to remain in a remote environment as well. PHILLIP: Well given that -- you know, I think we can all agree that

reopening schools is important but do you think that teachers should move up higher on the priority list for vaccines?

DR. JACKSON: Yes, we have been advocating strongly here in Chicago Public Schools for teachers to be as high up as possible to get vaccinated. I think what is important to note is there is study after study and various proof points that show that vaccinations are an incredibly important tool to fight COVID but it's not the only tool.

So if we wear masks, if we socially distance and implement the proper hygiene techniques that have been outlined, we can safely reopen schools. The vaccine will definitely take us further which is why we're working with our city's Health Department in order to vaccinate our teachers as quickly as possible.

But I just think it is important to note that it is an important tool but it's not a necessary tool in order to reopen schools.

PHILLIP: One of the other concerns that the union has raised is about compliance with these recommendations.

How can you be sure that these schools will actually end up implementing the plans that you have put forward universally throughout the district?

DR. JACKSON: Yes. Well first I would point to just the three weeks of success we've had -- successfully bringing back students in our cluster programs and in our pre-K program.

Teachers and principals are taking the steps extremely seriously when I go into schools to visit. And we've seen that happen even when COVID cases arise. People are quickly reporting. We're able to quarantine folks. And so I believe that our teachers and principals and school- based staff will do what is needed.

But we also came to an agreement with CTU around health and safety committees both at the school level and the district level. And we think that this committee is a cross functional group that will be able to, I guess, litigate some of those issues around people not implementing these protocols with fidelity.

So I think there are multiple layers to ensure compliance. These are important points that we take seriously. But we think with the right structures in place we can safely reopen schools and address issues as they arise.

PHILLIP: I do want to get to an important part of this dynamic which is the impact of remote learning on black and Latino families in particular in the district. You've given them a choice about whether to come back but there has been this notable distinction between whether they want to come back.

Two-thirds of white students say they want to return to school but only one-third of black and Latino students. That number has actually been falling even though evidence suggests that they are being hard hit by this remote learning.

So what is behind this hesitancy in these families and what are you doing to convince them that coming back to school is actually safe?

DR. JACKSON: Well, I think the first step is to reopen schools. We know that in many communities like the communities we serve here in Chicago, schools are not only a safe haven and a place for kids to get a quality education. But it also is a place where many of their needs are met.

And so I think the first step is to safely reopen schools so that the resource and that hub is there for many of our communities.

I think the other thing that is important to note here in Chicago, a majority of our students are African-American and Latinex. And so by virtue of us reopening schools we are going to be serving more black and Latinex students here in Chicago and contributing to that number across the country.

I think that, you know, a lot has been made around this equity question but if we're really serious about equity, we have to address the fact that many of our African-American students in particular are struggling in this environment.

[08:54:58]

DR. JACKSON: Those students where this works for them, they will have a choice to continue with remote learning through the remainder of the school year. But we cannot negate the fact that there are thousands of students here in CPS that aren't logging on every day and are falling behind every day and we're going to have to recover from that.

PHILLIP: Well, Dr. Janice Jackson, thank you so much for being with us this morning. I know you have many hours of important negotiations left today. And hopefully there is a resolution by tomorrow.

Thanks again.

DR. JACKSON: Thank you. Have a good one.

And that's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY.

Up next "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH".

Guests include White House economic adviser Brian Deese, Elizabeth Warren the senator from Massachusetts, Senator Rob Portman, and governor of Arizona Doug Ducey.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us.

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