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CDC Forecast Now Projects Up To 559,000 U.S. COVID-19 Deaths By Mid-March; Fauci: Vaccines Offer Protection Against Severe COVID-19 Disease; W.H. Clarifies On School Reopening, Prioritizing Vaccine For Teachers; Supreme Court Silent On Trump's Tax Returns, Justices Not Saying Why. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 18, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: We're currently 490,000 plus deaths, we're going to add 60,00,0 65,000 more by March 13th, less than a month away, that's from the CDC ensemble forecast. And every day, we get a painful stat from COVID. This one is a body blow. The life expectancy in the United States dropped a full year in 2020, because of COVID dropped a full year to 77.8. Among black Americans, it dropped nearly three years life expectancy. And among Latino, Hispanic Americans, it dropped two years, every one of these statistics and every day.

The testing map across the country, much of it looks good. You want to be the lighter. Lighter you can be as possible here. You get the percentage of positivity in your COVID test, get it to 5 percent and shove it down. You see Minnesota three, Wisconsin three, but you also see Kansas, 21 percent, South Dakota, 21 percent, Idaho, 22 percent, Texas 14 percent, Alabama 21. Those are trouble zones, even as the numbers naturally come down, see high positivity in some of the states.

Now you look at this map. This is the percentage of Americans who have been fully vaccinated. That's two doses, fully vaccinated. You see Alaska still leading the pack, 8.5 percent of its population, West Virginia at 8 percent. Most states in the 3 percent to 4 percent. You see some a little higher than that as your workup. That is the challenge in the weeks ahead. Keep masking, keep social distancing, get more people vaccinated. That's how you keep the case count down.

And in this vaccine race, right now averaging about 1.6 million doses. The administration, the Biden administration wants to bump this up as quickly as it can. One problem, listen here, to a key White House official involved in the effort. He says when they came into office, they thought there was more vaccine available and that would be available quickly, than it's turned out to be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY SLAVITT, SENIOR ADVISER, W.H. COVID-19 RESPONSE TEAM: We all probably were led to believe that there was a lot more manufacturing that had been done over the last year in anticipation of the vaccines being approved. That there was less than we all thought. We would love to say that we could triple vaccinations next week. But better for us to be very candid with the public and say it is going to be a week over week over week to the point where, you know, come spring and summer, I think we will have significantly turned the tide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's get some important insights from Dr. Paul Offit. He's the Director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital Philadelphia, sits on the FDA's vaccine advisory board, also co- invented the vaccine coronavirus. Dr. Offit, it's good to see you again. When you hear Andy Slavitt there talking about, we're trying to do this as quickly as we can. They acknowledge there's less vaccine, fewer doses available to them than they thought when they took office. They're trying to ramp that up and now they're also running in to the problem that even if you have doses available, now you have much of the country under this horrific weather. What is the impact if they can't ramp those numbers up more quickly?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL PHILADELPHIA: Well, you know, vaccines are our way out of this pandemic. I mean, I think we need to get up to about 3 million doses a day if we're really going to get on top of this virus by the summer and it's not easy to do. And, you know, the old line is that the hardest part of making vaccines as making vaccines. I mean, you can't just, you know, it's not men shirt, you can't just bring in a few more sewing machines. You want to make sure that every batch is consistent with the next batch that these are biologicals. They're difficult to characterize and difficult to make.

And the most important thing is you want to make them as quickly as possible, but also as efficiently and safely as possible. You can't have any batch to batch variation. We want these vaccines to be safe and effective. And so, we're just going to have to try and do this the best we can. I feel sorry for the administration, I think they inherited a difficult situation.

KING: It is a difficult situation and we hope that they can get things out as quickly as possible. One of the questions and you hear this public asking skeptically when they keep hearing about these variants. Well, should I get a vaccine that's available today if these variants are spreading around in the country? I want you to listen to Dr. Fauci's take last night here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We know that the vaccines of Moderna and Pfizer, the antibodies that they induce do quite well against the B117. There is enough protection to be able to protect against mild to moderate disease, not as well as you would protect against any disease. But the good news is that it protects very well against severe disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: What would you say to someone who could be a little bit confused, maybe not understand all these variants and the impact and thinking, Oh, then I should wait, because as they study these variants, they'll come up with a better vaccine, say a month or three down the road?

OFFIT: Right. Don't wait. So, the -- the variants story is very confusing. I think for virologist, it's very confusing. The virus that circulated Wuhan was not really the virus had left Wuhan and swept across the globe. The virus that left Wuhan swept across the globe was the first variant. It was called D614G. So that's the virus that we currently have circulating most in this country.

Then you have these other variants like the so-called U.K. variant, which Dr. Fauci referred to, the B117 variant. That's really not a worrisome variant. It does look like although it's more contagious, it looks like either immunity induced by disease or immunity induced by vaccine will protect you against that variant.

[12:35:05]

The more worrisome variants are the so-called South African variant to B1351 variant or then its cousin, the Brazilian variant. If you look at studies in the laboratory, it suggests that that variant has started to drift away from the immunity induced by disease or immunity induced by the vaccine that we currently have. That said, there is not a single example that I know of where people who have either been naturally infected or fully immunized when confronted with the, say, the South African strain are then hospitalized. When that happens, then we've crossed the unimportant line, but that hasn't happened yet. And it may never happen.

So I'm choosing to believe that for now, the vaccines that we're making are affected not only against the main virus that circulating, but also highly effective at preventing serious or critical disease against these variants. And that's what you want. You just want to stay at a hospital, you want to stay out of the ICU and you want to stay out of the morgue.

KING: Amen to that. Dr. Offit, as always, grateful for your important insights as we go through this challenging few weeks and then months ahead. Appreciate your time today.

Coming up for us, some COVID confusion. The new administration is making progress but not always working off the same script.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:39]

KING: Let's make this clear at the start, we will have a much better sense 100 days in and then 200 days in, how the new Biden COVID team is doing as it pushes to ramp up vaccinations and to get more children back in their classrooms. Managing the pandemic is beyond complicated as the new team tries not only to fix the Trump administration's many failures, but also tries to work more closely with governors, mayors and other local stakeholders here. Ask a reputable public health official if things are already better and the answer will almost always be yes. But as we marked a 30 now the new administration, there is some confusion about timelines and expectations because of some mixed messaging or different emphasis from team Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: His goal that he said is to have the majority of schools, so more than 50 percent open by day 100 of his presidency, and that means some teaching in classrooms. So at least one day a week, hopefully, it's more.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You're now saying that means those schools may only be open for at least one day a week --

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, that's not true. That's what was reported. That's not true. And was a mistake in the communication.

PSAKI: I think we've been consistent for the last several days. And certainly when I initially said one day a week, it was our floor, it was not our ceiling.

BIDEN: I think that we should be vaccinating teachers, we should move them up in hierarchy as well.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the President has said it and we're all really clear, teachers to be a priority. Teachers should be a priority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President and Vice President thinks state should ensure teachers are prioritized but the President and Vice President agree with the CDC guidelines that it's not a requirement to reopening schools.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Back with us, CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Jackie Kucinich of The Daily Beast. When you bring this up over at the White House that, you know, the Press Secretary and the President don't seem to be exactly on the same page where the tone, sometimes it's just emphasis of a point, sometimes it's a little different on a timeline. What do they say?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that they're fully aware behind the scenes of what's actually going on here and how they aren't on the same page with these kinds of things. And that's why, you know, he said it was a mistake in the reporting. No, it was from his own Press Secretary and how she defined it because that was the question is, Biden had promised a majority of schools open by the end of his first 100 days. What does that look like? And to most people, it's not just being in the classroom one day a week.

But I think also more telling is this vaccination of teachers because you saw Jeff Zients, he is the COVID coordinator for Biden, and he said they do subscribe to this, that you don't have to be vaccinated to go back to the classroom. But Harris was pressed on that multiple times by Savannah Guthrie in that interview three times, I think, and she would not explicitly endorse that guidance. And I think the reason so many people are pointing out is not just because the CDC recommended it, but because when they got into office, they said, we're going to be different than the last administration. We're going to trust the science, we're going to listen to what the CDC says. But they were skirting that part of the guidance emphasizing other parts of it, while not specifically subscribing to it until, of course, their spokespeople later said they were.

KING: And sometimes, Jackie, you get this answer and this happens a lot. It's a traditional response. They say, oh, it's the media looking to pick fights, it's the media looking to stir up trouble, the media looking, you know, to take what sometimes it's just a degree of emphasis versus something that is just contradictory. But if you look, imagine millions of Americans, when can my kid go back to school? When can I get a vaccine? Where do I belong in the vaccine line?

So you look at some headlines, this is the Washington Post, Biden team struggles to specify when schools will open, normalcy will return. USA Today, somewhere in there, the vaccine got over promised. How COVID-19 vaccination process turned chaotic and confusing. The New York Post starting from scratch, Harris contradicts Fauci on White House COVID vaccine plan. So, some of this is it's our job to hold them accountable and match up what Person A says to what Person B says. But more importantly, if you're someone out in the country trying to figure out the school question or the vaccine question, it matters.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: It absolutely matters. I think that's why you're seeing so much frustration, because following the science is running into the politics, because you can't really -- they're finding that it's kind of hard to separate it with which is why you're hearing. I mean, it is ultimately up to the states these vaccination plans, which is why, you know -- and we all -- we live in the DMV, the D.C., Maryland, Virginia, they all have different plans, and they're right next to each other and share a lot of the same people coming in and out.

So, I mean, the -- they are at the mercy of that. However, the information that they're putting out there is trying to walk this line between your guests. Teacher should be at the front of the line.

[12:45:01]

But the CDC does not recommend that, you know, said that's not mandatory that they're all vaccinated and the teachers unions and being represented -- the representing teachers who are afraid to go back to work if they are not vaccinated, it's running smack into that. So -- and sometimes walking this line just isn't working and isn't giving people the information they need to, you know, plan their lives which is getting increasingly frustrating a year into this pandemic.

KING: Right. And then as -- you raise a great point there, we're a year plus into this pandemic. And so everybody out in the country, that's their frame of reference. If you're the new Biden team, this is day 30 and they do deserve some grace. They are inheriting a behemoth, and they're inheriting a mess from the prior administration. However, to Kaitlan's point, they did say, we're going to bring in a team of professionals, we will be ready on day one.

I want you to listen, this is Andy Slavitt. He's one of the top point people at the White House in the COVID coordination response. This is actually refreshing when you listen to it. He says, look, we're going to tell you the truth. And sometimes in a big challenge like this, the truth can change from day to day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SLAVITT: We are trying not to give a false sense of security and a false sense of precision where none exists. And I know that makes people less comfortable. But I also know people want to be leveled with and they want to be told the truth. And sometimes the truth is a little more complex and it can't be done in a sound bite. And so, I think we're doing our best to be as honest as possible. And what you're hearing is that there are no solid answers, there is no precise, exact date.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Again, that is refreshing to be candid, you know, to just be candid, look, we're going to tell you the truth, we're going to tell you when we mess up, we're going to tell you when we don't know, that can be very refreshing, especially after the prior administration where we were told, you know, maybe we should ingest bleach, or there will be no pandemic or it'll all be gone by April. However, it can also be if you're already on edge, it can be a little confusing and unnerving.

COLLINS: I think there's a medium that people would like for you to hit where you are talking about the progress that we've made, but also what's realistic and what's pragmatic. And that really reminded me of what Trump told Bob Woodward. Remember when he acknowledged how deadly the pandemic was, but he wasn't saying that publicly. And when he was called out on it, he said he didn't want to worry people, he didn't want to panic people. And it's not panicking people to be realistic with them. They're adults, they're Americans, they know how to process information, and deal with it if you're realistic.

And I think this is something that we're seeing the Biden administration grapple with in real time with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine doses. We heard Dr. Fauci have to really correct that timeline from last week. He said, April would be open season, anyone who wanted one would likely be able to get one. And then because they are now expecting fewer doses from Johnson & Johnson, if that vaccine is authorized, they're saying that's going to be mid-May, early June now. So -- but it's also part of that, you know, when is everyone going to be able to get one and they've repeatedly set this marker of July and people actually going to get one and I think that's going to be a massive test for them.

KING: And we'll watch it as it goes forward. Kaitlan Collins, nice to see you in the bureau, first time since --

COLLINS: March.

KING: -- March.

COLLINS: Last March, and it's great to be back.

KING: It's nice to see you. Jackie Kucinich, nice to see you as well. Sooner or later, we'll get you back in here as well.

KUCINICH: Someday.

KING: So someday we will. Appreciate both of you being here today.

Up next for us, Supreme Court sitting on a case involving President Trump -- former President Trump's taxes but the justices aren't saying why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:52:56]

KING: And now the mystery surrounding a big legal issue holding over from the Trump years. A Manhattan grand jury wants the former President's tax returns. They want them to help with investigations into the former President's finances and potential misconduct regarding hush money payments. Mr. Trump and his attorneys, we all know this, oppose such requests throughout his presidency. The question is now lingering before the Supreme Court.

CNN legal Analyst Joan Biskupic joins me now. Joan, this has been before the court for a long time. What's the wait?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good afternoon, John. Yes, that's the $64,000 question here. Because you remember this case actually has its roots in a subpoena from August 2019. But even back to when Donald Trump was a candidate for the presidency, there were calls for him to release his tax returns as most former presidents in the modern time have. But this case began in August when the grand jury issued the subpoena for the tax returns and other financial documents. President Trump's lawyers then sued in September of 2019. It worked its way up through lower courts to the Supreme Court then just last July 2020, when the justices ruled by seven to two vote, that even the President has to abide by a criminal proceeding and turn over evidence that is needed.

Donald Trump had said that he should have blanket immunity while he is a sitting President. But the justices in that, otherwise, very sweeping ruling telling the President he had to abide by a subpoena, gave him a couple narrow options to pursue in lower courts, which he did. Lower court judges, though, spurned him again said, no, the subpoena should be enforced. And now Donald Trump's lawyers are back before the Supreme Court. They filed last October, four months ago almost to the date and said, no, we want the Supreme Court to intervene again. The justices normally would have responded by now.

This is the important thing to note, John, is that they have to diverge from their usual procedures and are just sitting on this without any kind of public word.

[12:55:09]

All sorts of scenarios could be developing behind the scenes even though that ruling was seven to two last July, four of the conservatives expressed misgivings, two outright dissented and two others broke off from the bottom -- from Chief Justice John Roberts' rationale. So, this case could go on for many more months with Donald Trump, now, former President Donald Trump not releasing his tax returns. John?

KING: Come back when we know, Joan. Come back when we know. Thanks very much.

BISKUPIC: I will.

KING: Joan Biskupic will track that case. And when we come back, former Republican presidential candidate and American hero Bob Dole facing a health challenge.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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