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Inside Politics
Underage Witness Testifies Off Camera In Chauvin Trial. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired March 30, 2021 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:00]
ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you. Good morning, ma'am.
D.F., UNDERAGE WITNESS TO GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH: Good morning.
NELSON: Thank you for being here. I just have a few questions for you, OK?
D.F.: OK.
NELSON: You testified that when you first came up to cut foods, you heard, you initially heard what was being said by Mr. Floyd, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And you sent your cousin into the store, and you never went into cut foods yourself, right.
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: He turned around, and you pretty much right away from the time you sent your cousin into the store right away, started recording, right?
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: And ultimately, you recorded from that point all the way until, shortly after the paramedics came and left, right?
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: All right. And so it's fair to say that prior to well, as you approached them, Mr. Floyd was already in that position, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: He was on the ground.
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And anything that happened prior to that, you wouldn't be privy to or know what happened, right? D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: But you -- and so what we saw from your video that has been played was roughly 10 minutes of time, agreed?
D.F.: Agree.
NELSON: OK. And throughout the course of your time that you were recording, you can -- you would agree that when he watched the video, there are times we can hear your voice, right?
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: And we can hear the voices of the other people, the bystanders, so to speak, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And I believe that you said there were about 12, by the end, there were about 12 to 14 people that were standing kind of right there on the sidewalk, right?
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: Were you also observing people across the street?
D.F.: No.
NELSON: Were you observing people like down on the other side of 38th?
D.F.: No. Mainly focused on what I was seeing.
NELSON: Right. You would agree that that intersection is a fairly busy intersection, lots of traffic?
D.F.: Third base, it could be.
NELSON: Yes. I mean, at times, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: It's a bus route. There's buses coming by.
D.F.: There's been multiple times it's been empty, though, as well but, yes.
NELSON: Understood, right. It's -- but it's busier intersection. It's in the middle of the city, right? It's compared to like, in a neighborhood, like, you know, where there's all houses, more traffic there, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And in fact, in your video, we can actually see a lot of cars driving by because this was, you know, a nice spring night, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And so your video, in other words, sort of speaks for itself, right, what we see on it is what you were watching as you watch it?
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: OK. You were interviewed by I believe, a couple of bureau of criminal apprehension agents early on in the case, right? The BCA, the BUREAU of Criminal Apprehension, they came in took a statement from you.
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: OK.
D.F.: The FBI.
NELSON: Well, there was an FBI agent works -- let's call them law enforcement, all right? There were a couple of law enforcement agents that interviewed you?
D.F.: Closer to the situation, yes. It was two, I believe two white guys. I'm not sure if they were white, but they looked like white but, yes, closer to the situation, yes.
NELSON: Right. You met with them, you provided them your cell phone, and you allow them to copy the video from your cell phone for purposes of their investigation, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And at that time, they took a statement from you. Would you agree with that?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And you understand that that statement was recorded, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: OK. Now, I don't want to misphrase what you said before, but I thought I heard you say that you were aware that there were four officers on the scene when you walked up?
D.F.: No. I didn't see the other officers until the end. And when I seen -- when everything blowed up, I've seen different angles. That's when I figured out it was two other, it was, yes, two other officers on George Floyd when he was lying on the ground.
[12:35:11]
NELSON: The question being though however as you were filming it you were not aware that those other two officers were there?
D.F.: No, only officer I've seen with Chauvin and Office Thao. NELSON: Right. And those are the two that you primarily had interactions with Officer Thao, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And you testified that Officer Chauvin didn't say very much, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: But it's also fair to say that you, you couldn't necessarily hear whether those other officers were speaking to Mr. Chauvin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overruled, you can answer if you know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to ask the question again?
D.F.: I heard him. No, I did not hear the other officers.
NELSON: Right. And it's also fair to say that when you first started recording you were one of the few people that were there, right?
D.F.: I was the first person to record.
NELSON: Right.
D.F.: First person, yes. Sure.
NELSON: And by the end of the video there were more people pressing?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And would you agree that initially when you started recording you weren't saying much if anything to the officers, right?
D.F.: I don't remember.
NELSON: But as time went on and more people showed up, voices became louder would you agree with that?
D.F.: As we understood more on what was happening.
NELSON: And it's -- I just want to know.
D.F.: What we've seen --
NELSON: Right.
D.F.: -- because how we reacted.
NELSON: Right.
D.F.: Like you said the video speaks for itself.
NELSON: Understood. And I appreciate that. So you heard various people calling the officers names, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And the volume of people in the -- that were bystanders grew louder over time, would you agree with that?
D.F.: Yes, more so as he was becoming more unresponsive.
NELSON: And more people also started speaking at the same time, right?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: So we had, you said there were 12 to 14 people --
D.F.: Around that.
NELSON: Around that number I think I counted 12 in the picture.
D.F.: OK.
NELSON: And several of them were speaking, would you agree with that?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And several of them were yelling?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And they were becoming more and more upset based upon what they saw.
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: Do you remember Officer Thao saying to you if you can breathe -- you can breathe if you can talk?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: Now in addition to -- in addition to your initial interview with law enforcement officers, you've also met with the prosecution team a couple of times in preparation for trial, right?
D.F.: Who will that be?
NELSON: Well, like, Mr. Allison (ph) and Mr. Blackwell and Mr. Frey (ph) and Mr. Slisher (ph) and a host of others, right?
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: OK. And you were -- you grew up in the near nearby neighborhood, right?
D.F.: I'm from here. I grew up near the suburbs.
NELSON: OK. But you were at the time living --
D.F.: By the time I've been there for years, yes, correct.
NELSON: For how many years did you say?
D.F.: Maybe five plus.
NELSON: OK. And you attended Roosevelt High School at the time?
D.F.: Yes.
NELSON: And you testified that you felt safe, you know, walking to the store?
D.F.: Actually, by the time of this, I'm not sure if I attended Roosevelt because I was in the process of switching schools.
NELSON: OK. I think where it was during the pandemic, right, and so everybody kind of had -- all of a sudden you had to study from home kind of a thing, correct?
D.F.: I was already in other school.
NELSON: OK.
D.F.: So, yes.
NELSON: Got it. You testified that you've walked to cut foods hundreds if not thousands of times.
[12:40:02]
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: And that you felt safe doing so.
D.F.: Anytime of the night, I would walk there.
NELSON: OK. Would you agree that you had previously told members of the prosecution team that at night, the neighborhood can be a little bit more dangerous?
D.F.: Some nights, I mean, it wasn't really known for violence, like every night or a lot, a lot. But I feel like any area has some type of crime from here and there.
NELSON: Sure, understood. You know, I'm not trying to disparage the neighborhood, right? I'm just asking what you had told the prosecution before.
D.F.: Right.
NELSON: All right. You ultimately ended up posting your video to social media, right?
D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: And it went viral. D.F.: Correct.
NELSON: And was that a surprise to you.
D.F.: Definitely.
NELSON: Right. Changed your life, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, objection (inaudible).
BLACKWELL: Overruled.
D.F.: Are you asking me?
NELSON: Yes, it changed your life.
D.F.: It has.
NELSON: Your honor, I have no further questions for this witness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any direct.
NELSON: Yes, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Blackwell.
JERRY BLACKWELL, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Donnelly (ph), you were just been asked questions about the safety of your neighborhood at night. On May 25th, when you were there, were you there at cut food at night?
D.F.: No.
BLACKWELL: Sun was out, you can see fine.
D.F.: Correct.
BLACKWELL: You will also ask whether that you are aware of what people were across the street from where the offices were, what people on the other side at 38th Street, remember, Mr. Nelson asking you about that?
D.F.: Correct.
BLACKWELL: Did you see anybody from across the street or from 38th Street do anything to either attack or threaten Mr. Chauvin?
D.F.: No.
BLACKWELL: And do you think that somebody came across the street to attack or threatened Mr. Chauvin, you had two cameras going, you record it?
D.F.: Correct.
BLACKWELL: Now, he asked some questions about, again, the bystanders who were there. And he talked with you about that, those bystanders. Did you see a single thing that indicated to you that Mr. Chauvin was afraid of you, your little cousin, or single one of the bystanders?
D.F.: No.
BLACKWELL: You asked about cars on the street, there are cars and cars and cars going. Did you notice, was Mr. Chauvin and trying to get out of the way of cars?
D.F.: No.
BLACKWELL: You were also asked about what the officers might have been saying to Mr. Chauvin?
D.F.: Correct.
BLACKWELL: Remember talking about that?
D.F.: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Did you hear the officers, the hearing officers tell Mr. Chauvin that Mr. Floyd didn't have a pulse? Did you hear him say that?
D.F.: No.
BLACKWELL: You didn't hear say anything?
D.F.: No.
BLACKWELL: And you were also asked questions about how as the events went on, on May 25th, how you and others may have gotten louder?
D.F.: Correct.
BLACKWELL: Donnelly (ph), are you the sort of person who in response to seeing somebody being potentially harmed on the street gets loud?
D.F.: I'm more of a bottle things up, I feel things inside. I don't -- I have social anxiety. So it was really -- it's really out of my comfort zone to really be that out person. But you know, when I seen, when I saw that moments I worked, I was loud.
BLACKWELL: Loud in response to what you saw?
D.F.: Correct.
BLACKWELL: Now Mr. Nelson asked you a few questions about your video going viral and how that's changed your life. Remember that at the end?
D.F.: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen, how you're viewing, experiencing what happened to George Floyd has affected your life?
D.F.: When I look at George Floyd I look at -- I look at my dad. I look at my brothers. I look at my cousin's, my uncle because they are all black. I have black -- I have a black father. I have a black brother. I have black friends. And I look at that and I look at how that could have been one of them. It's been night I stayed up apologizing and apologizing to George Floyd for not doing more and not physically interacting and not saving his life, but it's like, it's not what I should have done. It's what he should have done.
[12:45:33]
BLACKWELL: OK. Thank you Donnelly (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the answer, thank you.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
D.F.: OK.
BLACKWELL: You finish your answer Donnelly (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Proceed your next question.
BLACKWELL: No, Your honor, that's my last question. Thank you Donnelly (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Nelson. All right, thank you. You may sit down. You can leave. Thank you. All right, next witness for the state is coming. All right.
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: John King in Washington. We're just waiting, compelling testimony just completed by a woman, she's just turned 18. You heard her name in the courtroom there. They as well say it here, Donnelly (ph). We are not identifying her fully. It is D.F., her initials, the state now bringing up its next witness in this case as we wait.
And Laura Coates is with us. Laura, again, I will apologize in advance if I have to interrupt you if the testimony resumes. Quite compelling testimony from one of the eyewitnesses, obviously an infamous eyewitness, famous eyewitness because her video, her cellphone video was the video posted went viral, has been seen around the world of the death of George Floyd.
The defense trying to make the case in its cross examination. Well, you didn't see at all. You arrived there only after George Floyd was down. And again, the defense attorney has been trying to make the suggestion that the crowd grew unruly as the witness testified. Yes, there was more talking. There was some shouting. There was some screaming as more and more of the witnesses began to realize Mr. Floyd was losing consciousness and they believed was imperil.
The defense clearly trying to say, well, view this from Officer Chauvin's perspective. He was nervous. And then in the reexamined it, redirect I'm sorry, at the end there, the prosecutor saying wait a minute, you never saw anybody threaten anybody, right? Laura, I'm sorry the witness testimony was resumed, my apologies.
We're waiting for the testimony to begin. Again, the prosecutors have several underaged witnesses and so extra measures are taken to protect their privacy here. There are no cameras trained on them in the courtroom, because they were all under 18 at the time of the incident. Laura Coates as we wait, I'm sorry to interrupt you and I may have to do so again. Please join in.
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I understand. And you know, what I saw was a -- the redirect was so powerful to say, hold on. Chauvin wasn't scared of the crowd. He wasn't even scared of cars that were going by. He didn't somehow alter his use of force to try to reflective of the crowd in some way. No one was threatening. She talked about her social anxiety even with that. She felt compelled to still speak out because what she was seeing was so wrong.
And there was this moment, which at the very end, she concluded her testimony after was very powerful thing. When I look at George Floyd, I see my father, my brother, my cousins, my friends, they're all black. It could have been them. And then she said that I stay up at night apologizing to George Floyd for not doing more and not saving his life.
And then in this moment, she her voice cracks again. And she says, but it was not what I should have done. It's what Chauvin should have done. Imagine that testimony, John.
KING: Very compelling. Let's go back into the courtroom. Thank you, Laura.
BLACKWELL: How old will you be by the end of next week?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ten.
BLACKWELL: And then you've got a 10th birthday coming up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: What grade are you in?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Third.
BLACKWELL: Do you have a cousin named Darnella (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Do you remember going with her sometime last year in May?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: You went -- you have to let me finish my question. But do you remember going with her to cut foods?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: And you like going to cut foods to buy snacks?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Did you go with your cousin Darnella (ph) sometime in May of last year to get snacks?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Let me show you what's Exhibit 14. No. Just a second. OK, I'm showing you what's been marked as our Exhibit Number 13. And asking, can you see the two people in the front of that picture?
[12:50:41]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Can you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Who were those people?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me and my cousin.
BLACKWELL: And which one is you? All right. And so the little one with the word love on her shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Now, you that day, you went into cut foods to get your snacks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: And when you came out of it, the cut foods, do you remember what you did next when you came out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw that officer put a knee on neck on George Floyd.
BLACKWELL: OK, now you mentioned someone named George Floyd?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Did you know George Floyd before May 25th?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't hear.
BLACKWELL: Could you say that again? You can't hear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BLACKWELL: OK. Have you ever met George Floyd before going in to cut food that day?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BLACKWELL: As far as you know, Had you ever seen him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BLACKWELL: Now when you came out to where your cousin was and you saw George Floyd, was there a policeman there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Do you remember what the policeman or policemen were doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put a knee on neck on George Floyd.
BLACKWELL: If I showed you a picture of a policeman, why don't I just do that? Let me ask if you recognize a policeman in what's marked as Exhibit 17. Do you recognize this man?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Who is he?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't remember his name.
BLACKWELL: OK. Do you remember what he was doing? How do you know him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was putting a knee on neck with George Floyd.
BLACKWELL: Do you see him in the courtroom today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BLACKWELL: OK. How about him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: All right. So is that the person that you saw?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: So you saw a knee being put on the neck of George Floyd. When was the knee taken? Did you see that he was ever taken off of George Floyd's neck?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BLACKWELL: Were you there when an ambulance came?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Tell us what happened after you saw the ambulance came?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the ambulance had to push him off of him.
BLACKWELL: And how that happened? Did they simply come in an ambulance and then go up to push him off or what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They asked him nicely to get off of him.
BLACKWELL: And when they asked him nicely to get off of him, what did he do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He still stayed on him. BLACKWELL: And then what happened after he still stayed on him, what did the ambulance people do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just have to put them off, get off of him.
BLACKWELL: Are you able to tell us haven't been down this day and seeing the officer on top of George Floyd, how did you feel about that, how did affect you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was sad and kind of mad.
BLACKWELL: And tell us why were you sad and mad?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it felt like he was stopping breathing. And it is kind of like hard in him.
BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you Judia (ph). I won't ask you the other question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Nelson.
NELSON: I have no questions, Sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Judia (ph), you can go on, you're excuse. So you're done --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just put your mask on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're welcome.
(INAUDIBLE)
[12:55:14]
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: You're just joining us here on CNN. We are of course, continuing with our live coverage of the Derek Chauvin trial out of Minneapolis. Now we've just heard from two witnesses of three total that we've heard from today. We just heard from two underaged witnesses. If you were just tuning in a few moments ago, you heard a small voice of a young girl there, a nine-year-old, who was with her cousin who is now 18, was 17 at the time, and shot some video of those moments.
This is day two, of course, of what we are seeing in terms of witness testimony for this trial. We're just going to take a closer look, and a closer listen to what we have seen and heard throughout the last couple of hours. Joining me now is Laura Coates, CNN senior legal analyst, also a former federal prosecutor. Let's go to CNN law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey, former Philadelphia Police Commissioner.
you know, Commissioner Ramsey as we look at what we heard today, specifically, these last two witnesses, we didn't see them on screen, we didn't see them fully identified because of their status as minors. What did you take away from the testimony from the three different witnesses we saw today? First, of course, there were these two girls 18 and now nine. And they also have Donald Williams, of course, the MMA fighter who is testifying, continuing his testimony from yesterday.
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I thought all the testimony so far today was very compelling. The last two witnesses were particularly compelling, especially with the first one D.T. on redirect when the prosecutor asked, you know, how she felt. And she stated that, you know, when she saw Floyd, she saw her father, she saw her brother, and so forth.
And I mean, you could just you can hear the trauma in her voice and so it's very, very compelling. And then of course, you have the youngest one who nine years old now, I believe, but probably eight then. Thus she too was, you know, very clear in terms of what she saw. As far as Mr. Williams goes, I thought his testimony was good. He's an MMA fighter, which means he's very skilled at what we would call in policing, ground fighting, which is part of training that takes place in a police academy. So he knows pressure points. He knows control holds. He knows all that stuff. And it was very clear in his testimony.
HILL: You know, the other thing that stood out too in that testimony, so we know that he has that background, right, talked about how he started wrestling when he was in seventh grade, continued through college, then went into MMA fighting. But he also has experience insecurity and working security. And that came up a number of times as well, specifically from the defense.
And there were some moments there in the exchanges with the defense that honestly kind of made me really sit and sit up and take a look at what this exchange was that was happening. And I want to play a couple of those moments if we can I think we have -- if we have sought to folks in the courtroom available. I just want to play that if we could.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, did you make a 911 call?
DONALD WILLIAMS, WITNESSED GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH: That is correct. They call police on the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. And why did you do that?
WILLIAMS: Because I believe I witnessed a murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so when you felt the need to call the police.
WILLIAMS: I felt the need to call the police on the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now there were police there, right?
WILLIAMS: There were police there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Why don't you just talk to them about it?
WILLIAMS: I believe that they -- I just -- we just didn't have no connection. You know, I spoke to them, but not on a connection of a human being relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you, well, believe that they were involved?
WILLIAMS: Yes, totally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So, my apologies. That's a separate one, that was obviously the prosecutor there questioning him. But that stood out as well. You know, calling police on the police, didn't feel he had a connection to the officers who were there. Obviously, there's a very specific picture that is being painted. What are you taking away from that, especially with your experience in law enforcement?
RAMSEY: Well, I mean, obviously, if he hadn't lost total faith in police, otherwise he wouldn't call 911. But he knew that the officers there at the scene who had already had failed to take any kind of decisive action to check the wellbeing of Mr. Floyd. He clearly felt that talking to them was a waste of time. So he called 911 to get a supervisor and get some other officers to respond hopefully have a better outcome. I mean, that's pretty poor when you feel like you have to call the police on the police.
[12:59:56]
HILL: Laura, we also heard the defense really trying to downplay in many ways, the experience, the testimony, the martial arts experience, of this witness and specifically, there was a lot of back and forth.
