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Prosecution Questions Paramedic Who Treated George Floyd; Paramedic: Cardiac Monitor Shows Floyd Had "Flatlined". Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired April 01, 2021 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:00]
SETH ZACHARY BRAVINDER, HENNEPIN COUNTY, MN EMS: No.
ERIN ELDRIDGE, PROSECUTOR: OK. So after your partner, first approach, did you see what he was doing?
BRAVINDER: Yes, he checked a pulse on his neck, chronicles (ph). And also like he checked the patient's pupils.
ELDRIDGE: And did you discuss with your partner at that point next steps?
BRAVINDER: Yes, he walked back towards me and I asked, is he in cardiac arrest? And he said, I think so.
ELDRIDGE: So, use the word cardiac arrest, what does that mean?
BRAVINDER: It's the term we're going to use for anybody that's not responsive, not breathing, and doesn't have a pulse currently.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So essentially, does that mean that someone's heart is stopped?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. Are there multiple things that can cause someone's heart to stop?
BRAVINDER: Absolutely, yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So when you say cardiac arrest, you're dealing with a patient whose heart is stopped. That's -- is that an emergency?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So what did you guys, knowing that you had an individual George Floyd in cardiac arrest, what did you decide to do?
BRAVINDER: So we, my partner said, let's just get him in the truck. So I unloaded our stretcher her to bring to the patient, to place him in the ambulance.
ELDRIDGE: And what were you -- what was the reason for getting him into the truck?
BRAVINDER: Yes. All of our equipment at that point was in the truck for resuscitating the patient. And we also didn't have Minneapolis fire there yet, which they're work with us on critical patients like that, and help us a lot. So kind of, for resource management, we needed to get in the truck. And then on top of that, there was also a crowd of people that were appear very upset on the sidewalk, and there was some yelling and stuff.
And we, in my mind, at least, we also want to get away from that. Because running a cardiac arrest, it takes a lot of mental power and focus and, you know, can be taxing our ability so we want to do that in the optimum environment we can. And since the ambulance was right there, we want to be in that controlled space to start resuscitation.
ELDRIDGE: And was part of your reason to move, as you described, to give the best care you could so that you can be focused and away from whatever distractions were happening outside?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you described hearing people, you know, yelling their loud voices, but was anybody -- was there a physical fight or anything like that happening while you were there?
BRAVINDER: Not that I saw, no.
ELDRIDGE: OK. But you decided it would be best for the patient to move to a controlled setting, and do your work on the ambulance, is that right?
BRAVINDER: Yes. And the whole equipment was there, yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you also mentioned fire, tell me why it's important to have fire assist in a situation like this.
BRAVINDER: That was just a lot of different skills we're going to be doing on a patient to try resuscitate them. And we work closely with Minneapolis fire, they're all EMTs. And they work with us on resuscitating patient, doing things like breathing for them with like a BVM to help patient breathe or do chest compressions, stuff like that.
ELDRIDGE: OK, so I'm going to break down some of the things you said. You use the word -- the term BVM --
BRAVINDER: Sorry, it's just a -- it's a thing you squeeze to breathe for your patient, essentially.
ELDRIDGE: To assist with rest -- well, if someone's not breathing, is that a part of the process to try to resuscitate --
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: -- the respirations?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: All right, we're using the word fire (INAUDIBLE), the Minneapolis Fire Department, is the right?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And in a lot of people's minds, the fire department fights fires, but you're describing they're also EMTs.
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So, is it typical for them to assist you with a patient who's in extreme distress or a cardiac arrest or something like that?
BRAVINDER: Yes, it is.
ELDRIDGE: And he said that there's a lot of work to do. Maybe you could just explain a little bit for the jury why it takes so many people, you know, what's the process that you typically go through when you're trying to resuscitate a patient in that state?
BRAVINDER: Project things like chest compressions to hopefully circulate blood through their body. And you also need to control their airway. So there's some sort of airway has to be placed and we have to breathe for them. We need to gain vascular access to like an IV or something so we can give medications to try to resuscitate them, as well as cardiac monitor which is going to be monitoring a couple different things but mainly their heart rhythm.
[12:35:18]
ELDRIDGE: And to do all those things at the same time, I assume you would need more than one person at least.
BRAVINDER: Yes, just the more help you have you can get it done quicker and kind of running. You know, once you have everything established, you can run much smoother but that initial part is helpful having resources.
ELDRIDGE: OK. All right. I'm going to just back you up to when you got onto the scene and it's for that first initial interaction you had. I'm going to play a clip from what's already been admitted as Exhibit 47 and we're just going to play a clip from 20:27 35 to 20:29 45. If we could do that now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you serious?
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want one of us ride with?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ride with?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I don't have my phone so I'll be back here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help to build it out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) down the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELDRIDGE: All right, so we can take that down. So just to kind of walk through that clip. The beginning of that clip, there was an individual with a hat bending down over the head of Mr. Floyd, was that you or your partner?
BRAVINDER: That would have been my partner.
ELDRIDGE: And what's your partner's name?
BRAVINDER: Derek.
ELDRIDGE: And what's his last name?
BRAVINDER: Smith.
ELDRIDGE: And when you initially, at the beginning of that clip, when Mr. Smith was bending down over the -- over Mr. Floyd, was that the point in time when he was checking for a pulse and pupils that you described?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you may have been out of the frame for that but were you -- what were you doing while that was going on?
BRAVINDER: I was at the back of the ambulance -- Yes, I was standing at the back of the ambulance.
ELDRIDGE: And while your partner was checking for a pulse and checking pupils, were the officers still on top of George Floyd while that process was going on?
BRAVINDER: Yes. ELDRIDGE: I'm just going to show you a different clip with a different view of -- within that timeframe. We're going to publish what's already been admitted as Exhibit 15 but just a short clip from that which will be from 6:45 28 to 8:10 29 if we could publish that, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
[12:40:03]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bro, he's not even fucking moving. Get off of the fucking neck, bro. Get off of his neck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You own him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that gun is free.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you serious? Bro, are you serious. And you (INAUDIBLE) anybody's neck. Yes, bitch. Bro, you have to touch me like, do I swear (INAUDIBLE).
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bro, he's (inaudible) let him keep his hand on his neck bro? You're a bitch, bro. You got to keep your leg and keep that like that? You know I'm going to kill that man in front of you, bro, huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bro, he's not even fucking moving right now, bro. He's not even fucking move.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not going to help us bro?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he locked. They don't care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) people, they don't care, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to (INAUDIBLE) with you're knee of his neck, bro. You're a real man for that bro.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a real man, bro.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fucking, you guys aren't checking his pulse and doing (INAUDIBLE) as if he need help. You guys are on (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, can I have you're name tag bitch?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It don't matter, so what? Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELDRIDGE: If you can put that down. So at the end of that clip, there's another individual without a hat toward the head of Mr. Floyd, was that you in that position at the end?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And you were seeing bending down over Mr. Floyd, and there was a gesture made with your hand. What were you attempting to do at that point in time?
BRAVINDER: Just have the officer move.
ELDRIDGE: And, again, at that -- did you have a conversation at that point or was there -- what was the intent behind that?
BRAVINDER: I don't recall if I said anything or not? I'm not sure.
ELDRIDGE: And why did you need the officer to move?
BRAVINDER: So we can move the patient?
ELDRIDGE: And then were you continuing to assist on the head side of Mr. Floyd while the patient, Mr. Floyd was moved?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: I believe there's a clip in there where you were holding or had your hands near his head, what were you trying to do there?
BRAVINDER: I'm just trying to keep it from slamming down the pavement as we moved him over.
ELDRIDGE: And how would you describe sort of the way that Mr. Floyd was moved to the stretcher?
BRAVINDER: What do you mean by that?
ELDRIDGE: That wasn't a very good question. Well, you're trying to keep his head from slamming into the pavement. Why is that?
BRAVINDER: Because he was I guess limp (ph) would be the best description. He wasn't -- he was unresponsive and wasn't holding his head up or anything like that.
ELDRIDGE: And were you trying to protect his head?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: At that point. OK. All right. So what happened next? We saw that the initial clip where Mr. Floyd was loaded up on to the ambulance, did -- an officer come with you.
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And what was the purpose of that?
BRAVINDER: To do chest compressions for us?
ELDRIDGE: And was part of that the reason you described in terms of having -- you need more people to work on a patient in this situation?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So what did you do at that point in time?
BRAVINDER: As you can see in the video, my partner and I had a brief discussion that we're going to move couple blocks away.
ELDRIDGE: And was the reasons you described earlier?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Did you ultimately go to another location?
BRAVINDER: Yes, I went to the front and drove the ambulance and went to 36 and park.
ELDRIDGE: OK. And I am going to show just you, not the jury, an exhibit that has not yet been admitted. But if we could just put Exhibit 60, I'm sorry, 73 on the screen, please. All right, so you should see in front of you a map. Does that appear in front of you?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And does that show a map of the area where you were on May 25th, 2020?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And does it show both Cup Foods and sort of where the ambulance ultimately parked for a period of time to render assistance?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: Your Honor, I'd offer Exhibit 73.
[12:45:02]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No objection, Your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 73 is received. ELDRIDGE: And we'd ask permission to publish that to the jury. All right, so now that's up on the screen. If you could just describe where you went and how you got there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And also status, if want to draw in the screen.
BRAVINDER: We would have gone down 38th and then a park here.
ELDRIDGE: And if you could just describe -- you had talked about the reason to move, but why did you need to stop?
BRAVINDER: To -- like I said, it's resource intensive or doing a resuscitation. So, I needed to be in back to work with my partner and resuscitating Mr. Floyd.
ELDRIDGE: And, at that point, you were, it was just the two of you plus this officer, is that right?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And did your partner need your assistance to perform those resuscitative efforts?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So what -- did you ultimately park and then go back to assist in the back of the ambulance?
BRAVINDER: I did.
ELDRIDGE: And what was going on when you were -- when you got back there?
BRAVINDER: I can't remember everything that was going on at that exact moment when I walked into the ambulance, but --
ELDRIDGE: Let's start with this, I mean, had his condition, had Mr. Floyd's condition improved? Had he gotten better?
BRAVINDER: No. I remember walking in and the cardiac monitor was showing asystole, so.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So I'll stop you there, because that's the word that now people know. What is asystole?
BRAVINDER: Flatlines with monitoring of cardiac, electrical activity. I guess like flatline is most like person friendly term, but basically tells us the patient isn't really doing anything at that moment.
ELDRIDGE: So there's essentially no activity in the heart?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So when you came back and saw that the monitor showed a asystole, what's the significance of that just in terms of a patient's condition? BRAVINDER: It's not a good sign for successful resuscitation.
ELDRIDGE: And is that -- can you explain why, why is that?
BRAVINDER: Basically just because your heart isn't doing anything at that moment. There's not -- it's not pumping blood so it's not a good sign for a good outcome.
ELDRIDGE: So what have you do noticing that he was in asystole and obviously your partner had been working on him while you were driving as well, is that right?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So how did you join in those efforts?
BRAVINDER: A couple different things. Worked on getting him placed on a LUCAS device, which does chest compressions.
ELDRIDGE: OK. Can just stop for a sec, so you can explain what the LUCAS device is and how it works?
BRAVINDER: Yes, it's a device place over their chest that has a plunger that does compressions for us to check chest compressions to circulate blood.
ELDRIDGE: And I'm going to put on a screen what's already been admitted as Exhibit 62. All right. So Exhibit 62 is on the screen. Can you just describe what's shown here and what you're doing?
BRAVINDER: There's a backboard that goes behind the patient and it has to like click in and connect to it in order to work, so I was hooking it up.
ELDRIDGE: And is that part of the LUCAS device?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: So, when you say back or maybe you can use your stylus or your finger to just sort of circle or point to what you're talking about.
BRAVINDER: That little yellow, that's a piece there at the board that goes all the way across the back.
ELDRIDGE: OK. And to set it up, as we positioned in a certain way, is that right?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So you are assisting with getting that set up and is -- at the other hands here, the other officer who was on the ambulance with you at that time?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And then the other person behind you, is that your partner, Mr. Smith?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. And we'll move to Exhibit 63 which has already been admitted. OK. So once you get the LUCAS device going, I mean, just describe what is it do? How does it assist you in this process in providing compressions, that sort of thing?
[12:50:12]
BRAVINDER: Yes. How does it assist us? I'm not sure what you mean.
ELDRIDGE: Well, is it done sort of as a way to replace or make it so that hand CPR that, you know, the compressions that people might think of when they think of CPR, does this sort of do that for you instead?
BRAVINDER: Yes, it does that for us instead, yes.
ELDRIDGE: And can you just to sort of describe how that works? Maybe not the mechanics of the machine, but just what you see happening when you see somebody on a LUCAS device?
BRAVINDER: That center plunger right on his chest that goes moves up and down and does the compressions.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So is it -- does that also free up your hands to do other things while there are compressions being given by the machine?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So after the LUCAS device is set up -- before we actually move on, I mean, did you notice injuries on Mr. Floyd as well while you were working on him?
BRAVINDER: I wasn't really like examining him at the time for injuries, but I noticed some blood near his mouth.
ELDRIDGE: OK. But were those your primary concern at that point?
BRAVINDER: No.
ELDRIDGE: And why is that?
BRAVINDER: It'd be -- just glance, it looked like a minor injury and it's not really concerned and we're worried about resuscitating him.
ELDRIDGE: Because at that point, he didn't have a heartbeat, right?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So now in this picture in 63, which one of these individuals are you -- is you?
BRAVINDER: I'm the one near the patient's head?
ELDRIDGE: OK, so what are you doing there? BRAVINDER: Placing an eye gel airway device.
ELDRIDGE: And what is an eye gel airway device and what does it do?
BRAVINDER: I place it in their mouth that goes near the glottic, opening to their trachea, means you can use that BVM, the bag I was talking about to breathe, form and ventilate them.
ELDRIDGE: And why is that important to what you're doing?
BRAVINDER: It's a part of securing their airway to make sure liquid or fluid or vomit or anything doesn't end up in their lungs, and also helps us deliver oxygen and ventilate effectively.
ELDRIDGE: And at this point, I assume that you're doing this because he's not breathing.
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. Maybe no respirations are happening for him so you're trying to use your equipment to do that, is that right?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So did you ultimately -- well, let's look at Exhibit 64, which has already been admitted. So were you ultimately able to place that airway?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And does this -- and Exhibit 64, is that part of the process that you're working on with respect to Mr. Floyd's head and face, mouth area?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And your partner, what's he doing at that point in time?
BRAVINDER: He is working on getting IV access.
ELDRIDGE: And you talked a little bit about IV access before but what was the purpose of getting IV access in this -- for his treatment -- for Mr. Floyd's treatment?
BRAVINDER: To administer medications?
ELDRIDGE: And what were the medications that were administered to Mr. Floyd?
BRAVINDER: All of them that we would have given.
ELDRIDGE: Well, what -- I don't know if this is a long list, but what were your primary -- what was the primary purpose? What were you trying to give him?
BRAVINDER: Yes, epinephrine is like a first line medication when somebody is in cardiac arrest.
ELDRIDGE: OK. So did you give him epinephrine?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And why is that when you say it's the first line for cardiac arrest, what does it do?
BRAVINDER: Helps to restart their heart.
ELDRIDGE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: See a sidebar conversation here during the continuing testimony in the trial of Derek Chauvin while the EMT who responded paramedic respond to the scene, now on the stand.
Let's bring in our Legal Analyst Laura Coates. Laura, the prosecutor methodically going through the care and treatment. The paramedics tried to give Mr. Floyd after they removed him from the scene but also very important testimony about what this paramedic saw when he first arrived on the scene.
[12:55:01]
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: There has been -- I mean, you have the effect here of this being perhaps obviously too little too late. But what he's saying is remember his powerful statement. When I first arrived on the scene, there are multiple officers who were still on top of him. I assumed there were some sort of continuing struggle because they were still on top of him. And then learning later that he was unresponsive, seeing and watching him in his own personal observations that he did not appear to be responsive at all, or breathing. And then you see him even being lifted into the ambulance and trying to perform, cutting off the shirt trying to perform any life saving measures. But it's very obvious that he's explaining what didn't happen.
KING: Laura, thank you. Back into the questioning now.
ELDRIDGE: -- that and you said that's something -- can you rephrase -- repeat what you said just so I can recall?
BRAVINDER: It's -- at that point, it's something we're going to give it to hopefully to help their heart to start working again.
ELDRIDGE: And is that one of the things that you do sort of standard practice with cardiac arrest?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And do you also give sodium bicarbonate as one of your treatment options for a cardiac arrest as well?
BRAVINDER: Yes. And is that -- does that provide assistance if there's been downtime or some extended period of time without a pulse?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was objective meeting.
ELDRIDGE: I can --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Restate it while we rephrase.
ELDRIDGE: Why do you get sodium bicarbonate?
BRAVINDER: Based on my training that I was given, it's to help with acidosis.
ELDRIDGE: And what is acidosis?
BRAVINDER: Essentially your pH would be low. There's many different things that can be causing that bad.
ELDRIDGE: Why is it bad to have low pH?
BRAVINDER: I won't dive in to the details on it because I'm not an expert, but based on my training, it needs to be -- acidosis is bad and we need to work on correcting that.
ELDRIDGE: And is acidosis something that can be caused by things like hypoxia?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objective, you almost go down (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustain.
ELDRIDGE: All right. So when you're talking about acidosis, what are you trying to treat in the moment? What do you -- what are you dealing with?
BRAVINDER: I'm giving sodium bicarb to help to optimize the patient's condition for a successful resuscitation.
ELDRIDGE: And in terms of your work as a paramedic, when you come upon somebody whose heart has stopped, or who's in cardiac arrest, is giving medications like epinephrine and sodium bicarbonate part of that sort of standard treatment plan for you?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. I believe we just took down Exhibit 64. We're going to just put up Exhibit 65.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
ELDRIDGE: OK. Maybe if we could just go back to 64 just for a second, because I'm not quite sure which exhibit I had on there. All right, I believe we have 64 up, let's move to 65.
OK. And again, could you just describe what you're doing at this moment in Exhibit 65. BRAVINDER: At that moment, I am working on securing the eye gel airway device. In my right hand there, that blue thing is a two-polar (ph) we call it to put in the patient's mouth to keep the airway device in place.
ELDRIDGE: OK. And while you're working on the airway, is your partner working on the IV?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And was that for purposes of administering the medications we just discussed?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: OK. We can take that down, thank you. At some point did the Minneapolis Fire Department arrived to your location to assist?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: And what was Mr. Floyd's condition at that point in time when they arrived?
BRAVINDER: The same. Yes.
ELDRIDGE: It hadn't improved, is that right?
BRAVINDER: No.
ELDRIDGE: OK. What did you do when the fire -- well, how many firefighters came?
BRAVINDER: I don't like remember for sure how many were in the back. I believe it was two but I'm not 100 percent sure.
ELDRIDGE: And did your role change at that point when the firefighters arrived?
BRAVINDER: Yes.
ELDRIDGE: What did you do at that point?
BRAVINDER: I believe at that point, I started working on getting -- working on IVs access.
ELDRIDGE: And was there sort of a switch of jobs when the firefighters came in?
[13:00:00]
